Rockets RAISE offer to Jeremy Lin......

[bagelred]

........just to f-ck the Knicks over.


David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt

Lin will get $5M in year one, $5.225M in year two and $14.898M in year three. Rockets hoped that will discourage NY, but Knicks will match.

Howard Beck ‏@HowardBeckNYT

Confirming what @daldridgetnt reported: Lin contract terms have changed. Signed for 3 yrs, $25mil. Starts at $5m. Year 3 jumps to $14.9m.

Howard Beck ‏@HowardBeckNYT

Original offer to Lin had 3rd-year bump to $9.3 mil (and 4th-year opt for $9.3m). This one gives NY more to think about with $14.9m in Yr 3.



Morey is a real douchebag. Seriously. What goes around comes around.

[DTreats]

15 million a year? Da fuq?

[Sarcastic]

Match at the 71st hour. Make them hold up their Dwight situation.

[Linspired]

rockets do need a star power.

[DuMa]

LOL thats what happens when you have woodson and other knicks front office telling the media they will match any offer. dont show your cards or else proceed to get ****ed.

[Knicksfever2010]

........just to f-ck the Knicks over.



Morey is a real douchebag. Seriously. What goes around comes around.

stupid question, but once a team puts in an offer sheet for a player, are they allowed to make changes to it? Sounds a little unfair.

[bagelred]

So if NYK and CHI don't match on Lin and Asik, does that f-ck up Houston's chance at Dwight Howard.

In a weird way, I kind of want NYK not to match now.

[DTreats]

LOL thats what happens when you have woodson and other knicks front office telling the media they will match any offer. dont show your cards or else proceed to get ****ed.
Whether or not anyone said it the world knew Knicks were gonna match anything, he's their most popular player.

[StateOfMind12]

Houston Rockets are a terrible and pathetic organization, this is hardly a surprise that they would pull a move like this.

NY will match Lin's offer though but I would do what Sarcastic said and just match at the last hour just to hold them up.

[ncrizzle]

The Rockets are going All Lin:facepalm

[chazzy]

Match at the 71st hour. Make them hold up their Dwight situation.
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
Word in exec circles is circulating already that Knicks, especially given terms of J-Lin's new deal, will take full three days to match


Houston Rockets are a terrible and pathetic organization, this is hardly a surprise that they would pull a move like this.

What happened to their Greatness

[boozehound]

........just to f-ck the Knicks over.



Morey is a real douchebag. Seriously. What goes around comes around.
its called business negotiation. He (and all of us) already know they would have matched the original offer, so he upped it. Smart.

[Mr Exlax]

Houston Rockets are a terrible and pathetic organization, this is hardly a surprise that they would pull a move like this.

NY will match Lin's offer though but I would do what Sarcastic said and just match at the last hour just to hold them up.

No matter how much Lin will cost, we will still have enough money to get Dwight.

Oh and the Houston Rockets are far from a terrible and pathetic organization you fu*cking loser. :no:

[DTreats]

Houston doesn't even want Lin to come since it would ruin any chance of getting Dwight, so why would they raise their offer?

[bagelred]

its called business negotiation.

thanks boozehound. so i suppose Raptors should pull that offer for Fields. Hey, it's just business, right?

[boozehound]

stupid question, but once a team puts in an offer sheet for a player, are they allowed to make changes to it? Sounds a little unfair.
there was never an official offer, just a verbal agreement to terms.

[boozehound]

Houston doesn't even want Lin to come since it would ruin any chance of getting Dwight, so why would they raise their offer?
pretty sure they can get dwight regardless. It doesnt change the initial offer for this year.

[ncrizzle]

Will there be another news article about Lin being upset if the knicks dont match the first day?

[boozehound]

thanks boozehound. so i suppose Raptors should pull that offer for Fields. Hey, it's just business, right?
yes, its just business. if you want a RFA you have to make an offer that the team with his rights would be insane to match. With lin and asik, it can only be done in the 3rd and 4th years. Hes not doing it cause he hates NY, hes doing it because he wants lin.

[Wavy Crockett]

What a pathetic franchise. **** them.

[StateOfMind12]

No matter how much Lin will cost, we will still have enough money to get Dwight.

Oh and the Houston Rockets are far from a terrible and pathetic organization you fu*cking loser. :no:
A franchise that is willing to trade their entire team and all of their young prospects for one superstar just for one rental year is pretty pathetic and terrible.

Feel free to continue personally attacking me though since you can't deny the fact that your franchise is a complete joke.

[GOBB]

I love reading NYK fans cry about what Houston is doing. As if the extra money really matters. :rolleyes:

[DuMa]

thats about $5 million the knicks will never see again until Linsanity suspiciously changes his number

[Real Men Wear Green]

thanks boozehound. so i suppose Raptors should pull that offer for Fields. Hey, it's just business, right?
Not the same thing. TO made a promise and that would be reneging on their word. All Houston is doing is upping the offer to Lin in an effort to secure his services. People saying NY was dumb for broadcasting their intentions are right. They keep their mouths shut and they can retain him for the old terms.

[boozehound]

A franchise that is willing to trade their entire team and all of their young prospects for one superstar just for one rental year is pretty pathetic and terrible.

Feel free to continue personally attacking me though since you can't deny the fact that your franchise is a complete joke.
yes, a joke with 2 titles in the last 20 years. a team that made the playoffs throughout the 2000s. yet the knicks, with a bloated payroll of 120 million across those same years (and in a weaker conference) are a serious, all time franchise am i rite? Funny how quick it all goes to the knick fans heads. probably the worst fanbase out there (mia doesnt count, none of them are really fans) outside of the nikos and, gulp, bagelreds of the world.

[bagelred]

there was never an official offer, just a verbal agreement to terms.

yes and that verbal agreement is relied on all parties involved. this is just as bad as removing an offer. Can you legally do it? Of course they can. But this is very bad business practice.

Hey what goes around comes around. Hope all the other GM's are taking notes.

[boozehound]

yes and that verbal agreement is relied on all parties involved. this is just as bad as removing an offer. Can you legally do it? Of course they can. But this is very bad business practice.

Hey what goes around comes around. Hope all the other GM's are taking notes.
whatever. you guys are obviously butthurt. Its a smart move. Woodson admits they will match, so morey ups the ante. Its smart and the way more franchises should do business.

[Real Men Wear Green]

yes and that verbal agreement is relied on all parties involved. this is just as bad as removing an offer. Can you legally do it? Of course they can. But this is very bad business practice.

Hey what goes around comes around. Hope all the other GM's are taking notes.
That's idiotic. They are in no way breaking their promise to Lin, Lin's agent was probably working with Houston on the new deal.

[ncrizzle]

Why not go ahead and offer 4yrs/60mill

[PejaNowitzki]

whatever. you guys are obviously butthurt. Its a smart move. Woodson admits they will match, so morey ups the ante. Its smart and the way more franchises should do business.




This, surprised to see more teams not using poison pills or really trying to **** over a team when they know they can.

[blacknapalm]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23430162.jpg

[DTreats]

Why not go ahead and offer 4yrs/60mill
There's a limit to what Lin can make.

[Zackmorris]

Damn you Morey http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/angry/mad.gif

[Sarcastic]

This, surprised to see more teams not using poison pills or really trying to **** over a team when they know they can.

Then people like you complain "I can't believe player X is making so much money. These GMs are idiots to pay that much".

[Unstoppabull]

Geez redbagel quit crying about it.

[All Net]

So if NYK and CHI don't match on Lin and Asik, does that f-ck up Houston's chance at Dwight Howard.

In a weird way, I kind of want NYK not to match now.

Don't think it matters

[boozehound]

Why not go ahead and offer 4yrs/60mill
they cant. basically the most they can offer the first 2 years is MLE, with the 3rd and 4th being full max (if you want). can only do a 4 year deal (max) as well.

[Mr Know It All]

So weird Houston management is normally so conservative and smart, this off seasons has made them look amateur and reactionary.

I guess losing two good young point guards has put them in panic mode.

[Sarcastic]

The most they could have offered was 4/40 roughly. They offered 3/35 roughly.

[rawimpact]

wow... not good for the nba.

[ncrizzle]

This, surprised to see more teams not using poison pills or really trying to **** over a team when they know they can.

I have a feeling we will see plenty of this in the future. Its sleezy, but it is business. OKC has set the bar for unclassy deals sending Jeff Green and his bad heart to Boston

[niko]

Knicks will match. I don't see the point on Houston's side (The Nets just introduced 297,000 new players, are the Knicks really letting Lin go?) Seems like a waste of time and he is burning bridges.

That said it's not unfair. Unfair is reaching a deal and then changing the terms and taking something away. This is not that at all.

[boozehound]

I have a feeling we will see plenty of this in the future. Its sleezy, but it is business. OKC has set the bar for unclassy deals sending Jeff Green and his bad heart to Boston
its happened in the past as well.

[niko]

its happened in the past as well.
OKC hiding injuries they are required to disclose and the Rockets raising an offer to try to steal a player are not quite the same. It's funny people are equating them.

[InfiniteBaskets]

So when the Knicks match, how big of a check does Lin write to Morey?

[GOBB]

I have a feeling we will see plenty of this in the future. Its sleezy, but it is business. OKC has set the bar for unclassy deals sending Jeff Green and his bad heart to Boston

Someone on the medical staff didnt inform OKC front office when the deal was done. Yet you consider the front office unclassy. Brilliant. :rolleyes:

[ncrizzle]

OKC hiding injuries they are required to disclose and the Rockets raising an offer to try to steal a player are not quite the same. It's funny people are equating them.

Not equating them. Brought up Green to show that bluffing about contracts is not really that bad compared to that trade.

[ncrizzle]

Someone on the medical staff didnt inform OKC front office when the deal was done. Yet you consider the front office unclassy. Brilliant. :rolleyes:

And Joe Paterno dont know nothing about little boys in showers...

[rawimpact]

Someone on the medical staff didnt inform OKC front office when the deal was done. Yet you consider the front office unclassy. Brilliant. :rolleyes:

LOL please

[boozehound]

OKC hiding injuries they are required to disclose and the Rockets raising an offer to try to steal a player are not quite the same. It's funny people are equating them.
that is not at all what I am talking about. People have poison pilled contracts in the past, generally by frontloading them. Portland did it at least once.

[Blue&Orange]

yes, a joke with 2 titles in the last 20 years. a team that made the playoffs throughout the 2000s. yet the knicks, with a bloated payroll of 120 million across those same years (and in a weaker conference) are a serious, all time franchise am i rite? Funny how quick it all goes to the knick fans heads. probably the worst fanbase out there (mia doesnt count, none of them are really fans) outside of the nikos and, gulp, bagelreds of the world.
Pretty sure he isn't a knick fan... pretty sure you're a idiot.

[madmax17]

Rockets had a taste of Ming and the Asian market.. they liked it :D

[boozehound]

Pretty sure he isn't a knick fan... pretty sure you're a idiot.
where am I factually incorrect in that quote. The knicks have been a laughing stock from 2000 till 2 years ago. Highest salary in the league and a terrible team. In any other market, that team would've collapsed.

[LA_Showtime]

I don't understand why anyone would hate on Morey for raising the stakes. That's what you get for declaring to the world that Jeremy Lin is your point guard of the future. :roll:

[Faberg]

If they were going to up the ante, they could've offer more years and more money. Why stop at 3 years? :oldlol:

Anyway, this is fine. The whole roster expires after 2015 anyway. :pimp:

[LA_Showtime]

Why are people saying the Rockets raised the offer? From what I can tell all they did was back load the crap out of his contract.

[boozehound]

If they were going to up the ante, they could've offer more years and more money. Why stop at 3 years? :oldlol:

Anyway, this is fine. The whole roster expires after 2015 anyway. :pimp:
the most they could offer his was 4. the originally reported deal was 4 years (about 9-10) each of the last. This makes his only expensive year an expiring year.

[LA_Showtime]

The most they could have offered was 4/40 roughly. They offered 3/35 roughly.

... Am I missing something here. 5 + 5 + 15 = 25.

[LA_Showtime]

It's actually a brilliant move. It's going to make it extremely hard for the Knicks to match and avoid the hard cap. Genius move by Morey.

[Sarcastic]

... Am I missing something here. 5 + 5 + 15 = 25.

I thought it was 4 years. It's only 3. The old deal had the 4th year option.

Old deal was 5, 5, 9, 9.
New deal is 5, 5, 15.

[LA_Showtime]

I thought it was 4 years. It's only 3. The old deal had the 4th year option.

Old deal was 5, 5, 9, 9.
New deal is 5, 5, 15.

Neither deal you listed adds up to 35, but okay. Pretty sure you aren't the only one who had that mistake though. Seems like half this thread thinks the Rockets ended up giving Lin a bunch of extra money when all they did was strategically back load his contract to make the Knicks have second thoughts about matching his contract.

[Sarcastic]

It's actually a brilliant move. It's going to make it extremely hard for the Knicks to match and avoid the hard cap. Genius move by Morey.

Knicks are way over the cap already, and there is no hard cap. All this does is cost Dolan more money to pay in tax.

[DTreats]

Knicks might as well match Fields, they're obviously in win now mode and it's just money so f-ck it!

[LA_Showtime]

This thread title should be changed. It should read, "Rockets back load contract to screw over Knicks." :oldlol:

[Sarcastic]

Neither deal you listed adds up to 35, but okay. Pretty sure you aren't the only one who had that mistake though. Seems like half this thread thinks the Rockets ended up giving Lin a bunch of extra money when all they did was strategically back load his contract to make the Knicks have second thoughts about matching his contract.

I thought it was 35 when it was a 4 year deal. I was incorrect.

The old deal was roughly 30. New deal is about 25.

[LA_Showtime]

Knicks are way over the cap already, and there is no hard cap. All this does is cost Dolan more money to pay in tax.

Oh I thought there was a hard cap or something if you went over a certain amount. **** the new CBA it's confusing.

Edit: Maybe it's not called a hard cap, but isn't there a rule that if you go over a certain dollar amount you don't have bird rights or something.

[boozehound]

Neither deal you listed adds up to 35, but okay. Pretty sure you aren't the only one who had that mistake though. Seems like half this thread thinks the Rockets ended up giving Lin a bunch of extra money when all they did was strategically back load his contract to make the Knicks have second thoughts about matching his contract.
he was thinking the new deal was 5,5, 15, 10? something like that

Also, no hard cap, but the penalty for being a tax team so many years in a row will hurt.

[Crown&Coke]

LOL @ Knicks taking the whole 3 days to deliberate when it was reported they would match literally any offer

Knicks are just trolling the Rockets after the reported deal was more cap friendly than the actual signed offer sheet

:roll:

y'all act like the money is going to be an issue. A few years ago they payed a 50million dollar cap penalty for a team that won 20 games and still didn't get a lottery pick out of it. You think they are going to hesitate on Lin? Who probably boosted NYK bball to ever greater heights nobody even thought could happen?

cmon man

and Lin should have asked for a 4th year. What if he gets exposed as a one hit wonder and bombs it?

[Blue&Orange]

I don't understand why anyone would hate on Morey for raising the stakes. That's what you get for declaring to the world that Jeremy Lin is your point guard of the future. :roll:
Did the Bulls declared Asik was their center of the future? Pretty sure they offered him $25 mil also.
Rockets just amnestied a player, but somehow the raise have to do with bad Knicks management.

Rockets raises, Dolan yawns.

[boozehound]

This thread title should be changed. It should read, "Rockets back load contract to screw over Knicks." :oldlol:
well, its the only way they dont match. So, its more of a move to see how much they really value him. Im sure morey would be happy to have them not match.

[LA_Showtime]

he was thinking the new deal was 5,5, 15, 10? something like that

Also, no hard cap, but the penalty for being a tax team so many years in a row will hurt.

I thought there was some rule in place that all but made teams who go over a certain amount hard capped. Not sure what I'm thinking of.

[Sarcastic]

Oh I thought there was a hard cap or something if you went over a certain amount. **** the new CBA it's confusing.

Edit: Maybe it's not called a hard cap, but isn't there a rule that if you go over a certain dollar amount you don't have bird rights or something.

We would have been hard capped at $74 million if we offered a full MLE of $5 million. We only did the mini MLE.

[LikeABosh]

15 mill in year three?? :biggums:

[LA_Showtime]

We would have been hard capped at $74 million if we offered a full MLE of $5 million. We only did the mini MLE.

And I'm talking about three years in the future when Lin is making $15 million.

[Sarcastic]

And I'm talking about three years in the future when Lin is making $15 million.

From what I understand you only get hard capped depending on the MLE you offer.


For instance, if we didn't win the Bird Rights case with Lin and Novak, we would have to offer Lin the full MLE to keep him. If we did, we would have been hard capped at $74 million. We would not of had money for Novak, Smith, Camby, Kidd, etc after that.

[Pointguard]

No matter how much Lin will cost, we will still have enough money to get Dwight.

Oh and the Houston Rockets are far from a terrible and pathetic organization you fu*cking loser. :no:
Dwight won't stay knowing that nobody can be added to the roster two years down the line, tho. Seems odd.

[Blue&Orange]

This new Lin deal makes it problematic to also match Fields offer though, i bet the Knicks were going to match it, but now i doubt it.

[FireDavidKahn]

........just to f-ck the Knicks over.



Morey is a real douchebag. Seriously. What goes around comes around.
How is offering an RFA a contract a douchebag move?:biggums:

[outbreak]

Lol at the idiots who think making a contract offer makes a team douchvages and bag....

[Pointguard]

Also we have no chance of trading Lin for CP3 at the end of next year. It prevents el cheapo Sterling from giving him up and totally ruins Lin's tradability if he isn't a star. Knicks have no amnesty.

[Pointguard]

Also we have no chance of trading Lin for CP3 at the end of next year. It prevents el cheapo Sterling from giving him up and totally ruins Lin's tradability if he isn't a star. Knicks have no amnesty.

It's a desperate move and a troll move. DH just left a desperate situation. Not a good look Houston.

[DuMa]

John Hollinger: Every owner should send @Daryl Morey a fruit basket if Knicks match. Or a maserati. Tax + repeater penalty = about $1 million for each of them

[Pointguard]

This new Lin deal makes it problematic to also match Fields offer though, i bet the Knicks were going to match it, but now i doubt it.
Yeah it was an undermine the Knick team plans move - no question about it. Knicks have their hands tied in a lot of scenario's. They spent some time looking at Knick plans to pull this off. Its wild.

[Pointguard]

This new Lin deal makes it problematic to also match Fields offer though, i bet the Knicks were going to match it, but now i doubt it.
Let the guy sleep on your couch and then he's the reason Field's has to move out of town. Bad Karma on that one. Lin could have came back to the Knicks and asked for more money on a restructure.

[niko]

Let the guy sleep on your couch and then he's are the reason Field's has to move. Bad Karma on that one. Lin could have came back to the Knicks and asked for more money on a restructure.
No he can't, we can only match offers over $24M, not offer that much ourselves.

[Y2Gezee]

The Knicks were silly to broadcast their plans, because Houston let them off easy. But, the deal on the table now is what they were expecting, and they'll match. I think they must match for Fields now too. even if jeremy and landry do not work out, they can be tradeable expirers, and with available moves after this offseason being limited, they may as well match and bring back all of the assets now. In a few years they get their flexibility back.

But keeping Jeremy and Landry keeps them in win now mode. And could really develop into pieces that could be traded in a year or 2 to bring back value. They've gotta do it.

[Pointguard]

No he can't, we can only match offers over $24M, not offer that much ourselves.
Thanks, didn't know that. Its unfortunate that he ends up looking like a pawn to undermine team plans but he is exactly that. Sobeit, he is that because of OPP. Can't really blame him - he has to look out for self and its just the way the game is set up. Houston has enemies.

[ncrizzle]

Rockets are desperate for another funny looking Chinese guy

touche

[ElPigto]

Thanks, didn't know that. Its unfortunate that he ends up looking like a pawn to undermine team plans but he is exactly that. Sobeit, he is that because of OPP. Can't really blame him - he has to look out for self and its just the way the game is set up. Houston has enemies.

Forgive us for mot giving two shits about other franchises than our own.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Dwight and Lin = Yao + T-mac?

:rolleyes:

[dunksby]

Did the Knicks really think they could keep the Linsanity they created for cheap?

[Pointguard]

Forgive us for mot giving two shits about other franchises than our own.
Which is fine, but its going to come back to you. To interfere with a team's four year plan when you are a little bank trying to get bigger is just a stupid move. Houston won't be able to feel secure about holding on to anybody for years and its a big problem right now. It will strap the Knicks temporarily, but they got options cause they are a big bank and deal with this on the regular. The Rocket's GM will likely get a job with the Nets, who are loving this, but the Rockets organization has to carry the brunt, not so much the GM if he doesn't hang around.

Its kind of like Indiana thinking they could push around Miami in the playoffs. They forgot they were the little team messing with the team that had a long history of being in that situation. Houston got the first jab in... and I assure you the counter won't be a jab in return.

[NumberSix]

The Clipperbockers will definitely be stupid enough to match.

[ElPigto]

Which is fine, but its going to come back to you. To interfere with a team's four year plan when you are a little bank trying to get bigger is just a stupid move. Houston won't be able to feel secure about holding on to anybody for years and its a big problem right now. It will strap the Knicks temporarily, but they got options cause they are a big bank and deal with this on the regular. The Rocket's GM will likely get a job with the Nets, who are loving this, but the Rockets organization has to carry the brunt, not so much the GM if he doesn't hang around.

Its kind of like Indiana thinking they could push around Miami in the playoffs. They forgot they were the little team messing with the team that had a long history of being in that situation. Houston got the first jab in... and I assure you the counter won't be a jab in return.

Blah blah, what a load of shit. Are you Knicks fans kidding me!?! The fact that your management doesn't like ****ing around with other teams is not our problem. This is ****ing business, deal with it.

[ElPigto]

yes and that verbal agreement is relied on all parties involved. this is just as bad as removing an offer. Can you legally do it? Of course they can. But this is very bad business practice.

Hey what goes around comes around. Hope all the other GM's are taking notes.

Yes very bad business. This is horrible business.

The Rockets gave Lin more guaranteed money and gave him more money period, and you think this is bad business. Are ****ing kidding me bagel?!?! You really think you would be crying if you got more money? Do you have your head so far up your ass that you can't process that Lin is actually happy that he got more money?

Holy shit. Knicks fans all butt hurt. Who gives a shit what the verbal agreement is, the fact is the Rockets actually want Lin and are willing to take a higher risk to make the Knicks match. The Knicks can be mad all they won't but their dumbasses kept saying they would match, therefore Morey called their bluff and said, "Here is more money Jeremy, lets really see if they will match".

Bunch of kids on these message boards.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ElPigto]

If they were going to up the ante, they could've offer more years and more money. Why stop at 3 years? :oldlol:

Anyway, this is fine. The whole roster expires after 2015 anyway. :pimp:

Because the Rockets management aren't idiots. They actually are planning ahead. This is unlike the Knicks management that don't fully process thing through. Lets look at the Melo trade for instance. Melo was planning to come to the Knicks all along, yet the Knicks were foolish enough to give up all their young talent to get Melo when they could have signed him that summer since they had the cap space to do it.

[ElPigto]

LOL @ Knicks taking the whole 3 days to deliberate when it was reported they would match literally any offer

Knicks are just trolling the Rockets after the reported deal was more cap friendly than the actual signed offer sheet

:roll:

y'all act like the money is going to be an issue. A few years ago they payed a 50million dollar cap penalty for a team that won 20 games and still didn't get a lottery pick out of it. You think they are going to hesitate on Lin? Who probably boosted NYK bball to ever greater heights nobody even thought could happen?

cmon man

and Lin should have asked for a 4th year. What if he gets exposed as a one hit wonder and bombs it?

The Rockets were not going to give Lin that fourth year. They aren't stupid either. They were willing to do 4 yrs 30M, but it would have been stupid to make it 4 years 45M.

[ElPigto]

Yeah it was an undermine the Knick team plans move - no question about it. Knicks have their hands tied in a lot of scenario's. They spent some time looking at Knick plans to pull this off. Its wild.

So they undermined them, who gives a shit. This is the real world, not some fantasy land. The Rockets actually want Lin, but if they don't get him they might as well **** over the Knicks in the process. It's brilliant.

[ElPigto]

Thanks, didn't know that. Its unfortunate that he ends up looking like a pawn to undermine team plans but he is exactly that. Sobeit, he is that because of OPP. Can't really blame him - he has to look out for self and its just the way the game is set up. Houston has enemies.

And so do the Knicks. We don't do favors for anyone, as I explained to you already, we only give a shit about our franchise, we don't care about the Knicks. Deal with it.

[ElPigto]

Someone posted this on the Rockets message boards.



How Much Will Matching Lin Really Cost the Knicks?

If They Match

If the below referenced article is correct, the Knicks will be approximately 17 million over the LT with just 8 players in the 2014-2015 season. To fill out the remaining roster spots, we'll add a conservative 14 million (or 2 million per 7 players). The table below depicts the breakdown of the incremental luxury taxes paid by the Knicks in this scenario.

http://i.imgur.com/iD8cx.png

That's ~$89,749,983 in LT alone! The LT will essentially double the salary commitment of their slightly above average team. They're looking at a total salary commitment of approximately $190 million! To use the parlance of this board, Isaiah would be rolling over in his grave.

Of course, they can do things to mitigate this cost, but the amnesty option is no longer available for them, and moving some of that salary without taking any back may prove difficult.

If They Match Lin AND Fields

They could also do more to exacerbate this problem. For instance, they could match the Landry Fields offer. This brings the LT tax number into the stratosphere at ~$108,749,978.25 and a salary commitment of ~$209,749,978.30.

http://i.imgur.com/ZVOdo.png

In contrast, they could let Lin walk. The LT number is only ~$32,324,994.25.

http://i.imgur.com/Z8Xth.png

In effect, with reasonable inference, matching the Lin offer could cost them $72,324,988.75 in 2014-2015 alone.

TL;DR - Morey really has Dolan's balls in a vise.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/01/28/sports/28morey.1.600.jpg

References:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/lin_match_stick_SaOeWm9GmE9b6FjL2sxQLO?utm_medium= rss&utm_content=Knicks

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/03/landy-fields-raptors-offer-sheet-knicks-match_n_1647348.html

[Timmy D for MVP]

Once you publicly state that you will match no matter what it's over. Say that after: "we were gonna match no matter what."

Not only is it a business but it's a competition. If you can make another team overpay that's less money they have to allocate to other players and staff and such to compete against you. The only drawback is that GM's are human beings, and they too will deal with people they like, and not with people they don't. So if you alienate yourself from someone they won't deal with you anymore.

It's a risk, but it's business.

[ElPigto]

Another detail I wasn't aware of.



Other than financial penalties, are there restrictions on taxpaying teams?

In addition to the tax payments described in question number 21, taxpaying teams have the following restrictions. Note that most of these restrictions aren't triggered unless the team would be over the "apron" -- the point $4 million above the tax level -- following a signing or trade.

Teams above the apron cannot use the Bi-Annual exception (see question number 25).

Teams above the apron have a smaller Mid-Level exception (see question number 25).

Teams above the apron can offer contracts no longer than three years, while other teams can offer four. The starting salary is also lower (for example, in 2011-12 it is $3 million for teams above the apron, versus $5 million for other teams).

Taxpaying teams can acquire less salary in a simultaneous trade (see question number 81).

Starting in 2013-14, teams above the apron cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 88).

Teams above the apron do not have the same protections under the Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 44). Under the Arenas provision other teams can offer restricted free agents salaries starting at the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. If a team with the right of first refusal does not have Early Bird rights to the player and is over the apron, it will have only the smaller Taxpayer Mid-Level exception at its disposal, and cannot match an offer for the full Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.

In addition, taxpaying teams do not receive a distribution from the leaguewide tax fund. However, they do receive a distribution from the escrow fund (see question number 22).

[ElPigto]

@Jonathan_Feigen: Rockets had a courier knocking on doors at hotel, call room. Could not get someone to accept offer sheet yesterday.

Knicks are mad. :oldlol:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n2RsJH8s5Yc/TeqOjKYhl7I/AAAAAAAADD8/3OThuDSFhtw/s1600/lol-why-you-mad-tho.jpg

[knickballer]

Because the Rockets management aren't idiots. They actually are planning ahead. This is unlike the Knicks management that don't fully process thing through. Lets look at the Melo trade for instance. Melo was planning to come to the Knicks all along, yet the Knicks were foolish enough to give up all their young talent to get Melo when they could have signed him that summer since they had the cap space to do it.

Spot on. Knick fans/ownership are filled with idiots who constantly have the "win now" mentality and mortgaging the future for overpriced and overrated players. This past decade have saw the Knicks trade/sign for players like Marbury, Francis, McDyess, Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph, Jerom James, Q-rich, etc, and with not a single post season appearance to show for it. We have constantly traded our future for crappy players and the ironic part is that we usually land top 10 picks for it to only be in the hands of other teams.. We have missed out on some good players.

We definitely could've had Melo in the offseason and we still would've had Gallo, Chandler, some picks, Mozguv, etc. It's not like Melo was going to help us win a championship any time soon and in fact we were a better squad pre-melo trade. NY fans don't know the concept of rebuilding, the way we rebuild is by trading for malcontent ballhogs..

[ElPigto]

Once you publicly state that you will match no matter what it's over. Say that after: "we were gonna match no matter what."

Not only is it a business but it's a competition. If you can make another team overpay that's less money they have to allocate to other players and staff and such to compete against you. The only drawback is that GM's are human beings, and they too will deal with people they like, and not with people they don't. So if you alienate yourself from someone they won't deal with you anymore.

It's a risk, but it's business.

They'll deal with us if we have anything of interest. I'm not mad. We don't want anything the Knicks have and they don't want anything we have. There is no problem here. If they made an idiotic business move because they were mad, well that's on them. I'm most GMs around the league are happy that Morey is tying up the Knicks cap.

[Timmy D for MVP]

They'll deal with us if we have anything of interest. I'm not mad. We don't want anything the Knicks have and they don't want anything we have. There is no problem here. If they made an idiotic business move because they were mad, well that's on them. I'm most GMs around the league are happy that Morey is tying up the Knicks cap.

No I agree. I'm just sayin to the other posters complaining about it that it's how shit works and it's a tactic. I'm just pointing out it's flaws.

If I were a GM I'd be doing this all the time.

[swi7ch]

All-star starter next year! :bowdown:

[Pointguard]

Yes very bad business. This is horrible business.

The Rockets gave Lin more guaranteed money and gave him more money period, and you think this is bad business. Are ****ing kidding me bagel?!?! You really think you would be crying if you got more money? Do you have your head so far up your ass that you can't process that Lin is actually happy that he got more money?

Holy shit. Knicks fans all butt hurt. Who gives a shit what the verbal agreement is, the fact is the Rockets actually want Lin and are willing to take a higher risk to make the Knicks match. The Knicks can be mad all they won't but their dumbasses kept saying they would match, therefore Morey called their bluff and said, "Here is more money Jeremy, lets really see if they will match".

Bunch of kids on these message boards.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
:lol You're a real clown. Its not about the money, Bozo. Its the way the money is structured. Not that Knick fans haven't seen this problem before - We spend like no other team and can because we always had/have money. I would prefer them not to match it. Lin can't play the way he did those two weeks, for a whole season. Dwight will not stay on a team that sets itself up to implode in three years because its high on messing up other teams and banks high on a guy that hasn't had three good months in the league and has trouble with quicker teams.

If they get Lin, DH is in NY next year anyway without compensation. No winners in that game. But a corporation (Knicks) with more money has its eye out on little bank Houston which has always been a little too cautious with money.

I just don't think you mess with other's people's plans. I like Lin but I'm weary of him over the course of a whole season. He could end up extremely good. But I wouldn't bank on it.

[ElPigto]

:lol You're a real clown. Its not about the money, Bozo. Its the way the money is structured. Not that Knick fans haven't seen this problem before - We spend like no other team and can because we always had/have money. I would prefer them not to match it. Lin can't play the way he did those two weeks, for a whole season. Dwight will not stay on a team that sets itself up to implode in three years because its high on messing up other teams and banks high on a guy that hasn't had three good months in the league and has trouble with quicker teams.

If they get Lin, DH is in NY next year anyway without compensation. No winners in that game. But a corporation (Knicks) with more money has its eye out on little bank Houston which has always been a little too cautious with money.

I just don't think you mess with other's people's plans. I like Lin but I'm weary of him over the course of a whole season. He could end up extremely good. But I wouldn't bank on it.

If it's about the way the money is structured then maybe the Knicks should have not signed three players to max deals. New York is certainly an attractive destination but they can't hog all the talent in the league and if they wish to do so, then there will be a price to pay for it.

I'm not even worried about Dwight at this point. If we get him and he bolts, GREAT, if we get him and he stays, GREAT! At the end of the day at least we have a direction rather than stuck on the middle of the road. If we don't get him, then GREAT as well, we have some young guys with potential and we'll suck bad enough to get a good draft pick in the lottery. It's a WIN-WIN in my opinion, even if we trade half our team for Dwight, which I doubt Morey would.

[Heavincent]

Feel free to continue personally attacking me though since you can't deny the fact that your franchise is a complete joke.

Okay RocketGreatness.

:lol

[Pointguard]

No I agree. I'm just sayin to the other posters complaining about it that it's how shit works and it's a tactic. I'm just pointing out it's flaws.

If I were a GM I'd be doing this all the time.

A bigger corporation can do that to a smaller corporation - its never safe the other way around. And Houston is price cautious enterprise. Its a game that's over its head. Like I said its like Indiana fouling Miami in the playoffs, when it got dirty their GM was saying his players were weak. Not really, you don't go dirty on a Pat Riley team. Houston was never resourceful, or a spender or a team that outbids on players. They are now, but they're Indiana down 3 to 1 in the playoffs. They're just waiting to lose.

You do big moves and smart moves on proven players. Houston doesn't know what its doing. They are out of their element. They have always been a conservative outfit. But they are out there now.

[bagelred]

As much as this 2014-2015 payroll for the Knicks can be insane, let's also note a few things:

1. It's only for one year. In summer 2015, EVERYONE's contract expires. Lin, Melo, Amare, Chandler.....so Knicks can either let guys walk, figure out who they want to pay, etc. It's not like its multiple year problem.

2. The Luxury Tax level will go UP by then. In other words, the luxury tax level this year is $70 million. Two seasons from now, it will definitely be a good amount higher, considering the NBA is doing very well. Maybe it will be $75 million, maybe $78 million who knows? But in other words, don't use the $70 million number. The luxury tax level will be higher, which means the tax penalty will be less.

3. The Knicks will have no other big money contracts besides Lin, Melo, Amare, Chandler. Why? Because they won't be able to add any. Kidd, Camby, Novak, Shumpert are locked up on deals. They'll have a first round pick next season. JR Smith can only get MLE money next year. So its not like there will be another HUGE contract added before 2014.

4. Both Amare and Melo have OPTIONS for that last year of their contracts. Maybe Knicks work out side deal asking them to take less in 2014-2015 but make it up in future years....especially with Amare.

5.. The knicks have THREE YEARS to figure something out. The luxury tax level money won't be determined until end of season 2015. Maybe one of the "big 4" gets traded before then. Maybe Knicks trade Amare's huge expirer for long term contract for less money. For example, trade Amare's $23 million for a guy with a 3 year, $40 million contract.....less money in 2015 but money locked up longer. That reduces 2015 tax bill.

6. Knicks will NOT be a repeater tax candidate that year. Because of the previous years under cap last 2 years. If it was, would made problem worse as penalties are higher. (Read the CBA).

7. James Dolan sh-ts gold.

For all those reasons, Knicks will match and figure out something before summer 2015 luxury tax payment.

[Timmy D for MVP]

A bigger corporation can do that to a smaller corporation - its never safe the other way around. And Houston is price cautious enterprise. Its a game that's over its head. Like I said its like Indiana fouling Miami in the playoffs, when it got dirty their GM was saying his players were weak. Not really, you don't go dirty on a Pat Riley team. Houston was never resourceful, or a spender or a team that outbids on players. They are now, but they're Indiana down 3 to 1 in the playoffs. They're just waiting to lose.

You do big moves and smart moves on proven players. Houston doesn't know what its doing. They are out of their element. They have always been a conservative outfit. But they are out there now.

I'm not sure if Morey is in over his head against the Knicks FO.

[ElPigto]

A bigger corporation can do that to a smaller corporation - its never safe the other way around. And Houston is price cautious enterprise. Its a game that's over its head. Like I said its like Indiana fouling Miami in the playoffs, when it got dirty their GM was saying his players were weak. Not really, you don't go dirty on a Pat Riley team. Houston was never resourceful, or a spender or a team that outbids on players. They are now, but they're Indiana down 3 to 1 in the playoffs. They're just waiting to loose.

You do big moves and smart moves on proven players. Houston doesn't know what its doing. They are out of their element. They have always been a conservative outfit. But they are out there now.

They are conservative because there has been no reason to be stupid. What's the point of putting yourself in cap hell if you aren't going to be competitive at all. Our owner is not afraid to spend if we are close to being a championship contender, but during these last few years, we just haven't even be close, so why spend? I don't see any free agents out there that would have made us better by overpaying them. We've tried courting superstars but it appears we aren't a destination for these superteams, therefore we have to spend smartly and not stupidly so when the time comes we'll have the cap space to spend for the players we need to spend on.

I always agree with taking risks. There is nothing wrong with that. I just don't agree with taking idiotic risks for the bloody hell of it. Look at the Knicks, how many risks did they take in the past decade and what exactly do they have to show for it. Instead they been the laughing stock of the NBA for years. They been more respectable since Donny was in charge, but then they did the stupid trade for Carmelo and gave away all their young talent.

[Blue&Orange]

As much as this 2014-2015 payroll for the Knicks can be insane, let's also note a few things:

1. It's only for one year. In summer 2015, EVERYONE's contract expires. Lin, Melo, Amare, Chandler.....so Knicks can either let guys walk, figure out who they want to pay, etc. It's not like its multiple year problem.

2. The Luxury Tax level will go UP by then. In other words, the luxury tax level this year is $70 million. Two seasons from now, it will definitely be a good amount higher, considering the NBA is doing very well. Maybe it will be $75 million, maybe $78 million who knows? But in other words, don't use the $70 million number. The luxury tax level will be higher, which means the tax penalty will be less.

3. The Knicks will have no other big money contracts besides Lin, Melo, Amare, Chandler. Why? Because they won't be able to add any. Kidd, Camby, Novak, Shumpert are locked up on deals. They'll have a first round pick next season. JR Smith can only get MLE money next year. So its not like there will be another HUGE contract added before 2014.

4. Both Amare and Melo have OPTIONS for that last year of their contracts. Maybe Knicks work out side deal asking them to take less in 2014-2015 but make it up in future years....especially with Amare.

5.. The knicks have THREE YEARS to figure something out. The luxury tax level money won't be determined until end of season 2015. Maybe one of the "big 4" gets traded before then. Maybe Knicks trade Amare's huge expirer for long term contract for less money. For example, trade Amare's $23 million for a guy with a 3 year, $40 million contract.....less money in 2015 but money locked up longer. That reduces 2015 tax bill.

6. Knicks will NOT be a repeater tax candidate that year. Because of the previous years under cap last 2 years. If it was, would made problem worse as penalties are higher. (Read the CBA).

7. James Dolan sh-ts gold.

For all those reasons, Knicks will match and figure out something before summer 2015 luxury tax payment.
Lately almost every player have opt out to get a new longer contract, regardless of how good his last year is in terms of salary, Knicks will be able to shave off some millions even by giving them again max contracts but probably that isn't going to happen, so more millions saved for 14\15.

[ElPigto]

1. It's only for one year. In summer 2015, EVERYONE's contract expires. Lin, Melo, Amare, Chandler.....so Knicks can either let guys walk, figure out who they want to pay, etc. It's not like its multiple year problem.

Agreed, it isn't for multiple years. I have no doubt that the Knicks don't care how much they pay in luxury taxes as long as they are competitive. This I understand and I agree. Plus, I know all those players are coming of their last deal, so I'm sure they can survive this year paying taxes.


2. The Luxury Tax level will go UP by then. In other words, the luxury tax level this year is $70 million. Two seasons from now, it will definitely be a good amount higher, considering the NBA is doing very well. Maybe it will be $75 million, maybe $78 million who knows? But in other words, don't use the $70 million number. The luxury tax level will be higher, which means the tax penalty will be less.

At this point it is all speculation. The luxury tax level has been pretty stable these last few seasons.

08-09 - 71.15M
09-10 - 69.92M
10-11 - 70.31M
11-12 - 70.31M
12-13 - 70.31M

In other words, yes the league is doing better, so it is possible the luxury tax level will rise, I don't believe it might be that huge of an increase in 13-14.


3. The Knicks will have no other big money contracts besides Lin, Melo, Amare, Chandler. Why? Because they won't be able to add any. Kidd, Camby, Novak, Shumpert are locked up on deals. They'll have a first round pick next season. JR Smith can only get MLE money next year. So its not like there will be another HUGE contract added before 2014.

Correct, but every little adds up. They still will have their mini-MLE as you said and they will also hold JR Smith's early bird rights (I think), so if he performs well this coming season there is possibility that someone tries to **** them over like the Rockets, although this is highly doubtful.


4. Both Amare and Melo have OPTIONS for that last year of their contracts. Maybe Knicks work out side deal asking them to take less in 2014-2015 but make it up in future years....especially with Amare.

Lets be realistic, if Melo works out another deal, it will probably be for more money. Amare on the hand seems like he is not getting any better and might not even entertain the idea of leaving 23M on the table. I am positive that he won't leave that much laying on the table, he would probably just re-up the following year or bolt.


5.. The knicks have THREE YEARS to figure something out. The luxury tax level money won't be determined until end of season 2015. Maybe one of the "big 4" gets traded before then. Maybe Knicks trade Amare's huge expirer for long term contract for less money. For example, trade Amare's $23 million for a guy with a 3 year, $40 million contract.....less money in 2015 but money locked up longer. That reduces 2015 tax bill.

Definitely possible, but all speculation at this point. The bottom line is that they will definitely be scrambling if they don't want to pay a huge tax bill.


6. Knicks will NOT be a repeater tax candidate that year. Because of the previous years under cap last 2 years. If it was, would made problem worse as penalties are higher. (Read the CBA).

I don't believe they will be under the cap this year and depending on next years luxury tax level, they might not be under next year as well although this is speculation on my part. Show me the math, I'm looking right now they have 56.4M tied up between Stoudemire, Chandler, Melo, Shumpert and Balkman according to **********. Considering that Camby signed for around 4M/yr, Kidd 3M/yr, JR 1.4M/yr, Lin (reupped) 5M (this year), Novak 3.8M/yr that's already 17.2M without taking into account any other minimum contracts they might sign other players too, which is roughly 73.4M. Already over.

Next year, between Shumpert/Melo/Stoudamire/Chandler/Lin/Camby/Novak/Smith(assuming he opts in) they will be around 76.8M, which means they will be repeat offenders.

This is all assuming they don't match Fields, which I feel they won't.


7. James Dolan sh-ts gold.

I agree. It's awesome to have an owner that literally does not give a shit how much he spends whether team is good or bad. That's cool, but that's also putting yourself against the wall in this new CBA.


For all those reasons, Knicks will match and figure out something before summer 2015 luxury tax payment.

I'm sure they will match, but Morey at least had to try. They'll figure something out, otherwise it doesn't really matter they'll still be making money. At least the other NBA teams not paying penalties will reap a few extra millions which I'm sure they'd be happy about (especially Donald Sterling, :oldlol:)

[DuMa]

"Grunwald speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom. He'll blend in, disappear. You'll never see him again."

[knickswin]

"Grunwald speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom. He'll blend in, disappear. You'll never see him again."

favorite part of that movie.

[D-Rose]

Okay RocketGreatness.

:lol
Haha nice try buddy. Both you and StateofMind12 are RG. What's the point in talking to yourself? :oldlol:

[ElPigto]

[QUOTE]Across Las Vegas on Saturday, Rockets officials and couriers fanned out trying to deliver Jeremy Lin

[The Ownage]

3. The Knicks will have no other big money contracts besides Lin, Melo, Amare, Chandler. Why? Because they won't be able to add any. Kidd, Camby, Novak, Shumpert are locked up on deals. They'll have a first round pick next season. JR Smith can only get MLE money next year. So its not like there will be another HUGE contract added before 2014.
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[NYballin]

Frank Isola ‏@FisolaNYDN
As Knicks wait for Jeremy Lin offer sheet they have had talks with (cheaper alternative) Raymond Felton. The plot thickens

just seen this on twitter.

[ElPigto]

just seen this on twitter.

Is he reliable?

[General]

Marc J. Spears‏@SpearsNBAYahoo

Knicks close to obtaining point guard Raymond Felton in sign and trade with Blazers, source tells Y! Sports.

This guy is.

[ReturnofJPR]

........just to f-ck the Knicks over.



Morey is a real douchebag. Seriously. What goes around comes around.

He is a douche, good call

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Don't see anything wrong with the Rockets trying to steal Lin...

What kind of moron thinks they did it intentionally just to piss off the Knicks?

[niko]

:bowdown: :bowdown:
Liar, we never have picks.

[hawkfan]

Kidd becomes the starter with Felton as backup.

Lin and Howard is a good duo.

[TOUCH MY BODY]

Linsanity :bowdown: