Kevin Durant at age 23 was better than LeBron was at age 23

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron was the better ball-handler and facilitator/playmaker but that was about it. Lebron was not a particularly good defender at the time and I have to say that current Durant was better than 23 year old LeBron at it. Durant just has Lebron beat in most categories at age 23.

Stats at age 23 for both of them.

Durant ('11-'12 season) - (38.6 mpg) 28 ppg, 8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.2 bpg, 3.8 topg, 49.6% FG, 38.7% 3p, 86% ft, 61% TS, 54.7% eFG.

LeBron ('07-'08 season) - (40.3 mpg) 30 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.1 bpg, 3.4 topg, 48.4% FG, 31.5% 3p, 71.2% FT, 56.8% TS, 51.8% eFG.

Lebron scored more ppg but he did it under much worse efficiency and he also played 2 more minutes per game than Durant did at the time.

I'm not going to bring out the playoff stats yet because Durant is still in it while LeBron's playoff numbers were very weak that season. Durant's playoff numbers are much better though and you can see for yourself if you want on basketball reference.

Durant may not be better than LeBron right now at both of their current states but Durant was better than LeBron when LeBron was his age.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Durant is the better scorer and rebounder.
Lebron is the better passer, by a mile, but is also a good rebounder. So that is a wash.

Defensively, Lebron was not a good defender, at all. Durant is clearly the better defender at that age.

[PTB Fan]

Interesting debate, would lean to vote for James. Besides the things you named, i'd say LeBron is more offensively productive, better off-ball defender and slightly better in few other areas. Still, he had a drop off in the PS which makes me wonder my selection..

[Bladers]

inb4 the apologists.

[TheMan]

inb4 the apologists.
For real, this thread isn't gonna end well once the Pauks of the world chime in:lol

[Doranku]

StateOfMind12 at account 23 was a better poster than--- oh wait, no one else has the time or lack of dignity to make that many accounts. :roll:

[28renyoy]

Durant was/is clearly the better player. Also LeBron was garbage in the playoffs

[Doranku]

Durant was/is clearly the better player. Also LeBron was garbage in the playoffs

Just wait till your boyfriend plays the Spurs and people will be saying the same thing about him.

[28renyoy]

Just wait till your boyfriend plays the Spurs and people will be saying the same thing about him.

still mad i see

[LamarOdom]

LOL LeBron at that age had one of the worst teams in the league while Durant have Westbrook (borderline superstar), James Harden (Top 5-7 SG), and Sefolosha, Ibaka & Perkins (All defensive team worthy players, Perks very underrated, Sefolosha elite perimiter defender).

Altough the defensive players doesn't matter he still have Russ and Harden, so double teaming him and focusing all your defense on him isn't a smart idea as it was with LBJ.

Durant would never ever eeeeeeeeeever lead a team of scrubs past the first round, even in the east.

[LamarOdom]

Durant was/is clearly the better player. Also LeBron was garbage in the playoffs

Yep leading your team to the finals as a four year player is garbage.

[28renyoy]

LOL LeBron at that age had one of the worst teams in the league while Durant have Westbrook (borderline superstar), James Harden (Top 5-7 SG), and Sefolosha, Ibaka & Perkins (All defensive team worthy players, Perks very underrated, Sefolosha elite perimiter defender).

Altough the defensive players doesn't matter he still have Russ and Harden, so double teaming him and focusing all your defense on him isn't a smart idea as it was with LBJ.

Durant would never ever eeeeeeeeeever lead a team of scrubs past the first round, even in the east.

LOL @ those Cavs teams being garbage.

In 2007 they made the Finals and that with LeBron shooting BELOW 43% in 15 of the 20 games. As a matter of fact, he shot below 40% in 11 of those 20 games.

And they played
41-41 Wizards
41-41 Nets
Ben Wallaceless Pistons team that went 53-29

What a joke of a playoff run

[Quickening]

LOL LeBron at that age had one of the worst teams in the league while Durant have Westbrook (borderline superstar), James Harden (Top 5-7 SG), and Sefolosha, Ibaka & Perkins (All defensive team worthy players, Perks very underrated, Sefolosha elite perimiter defender).

Altough the defensive players doesn't matter he still have Russ and Harden, so double teaming him and focusing all your defense on him isn't a smart idea as it was with LBJ.

Durant would never ever eeeeeeeeeever lead a team of scrubs past the first round, even in the east.

This.

[chips93]

LOL LeBron at that age had one of the worst teams in the league while Durant have Westbrook (borderline superstar), James Harden (Top 5-7 SG), and Sefolosha, Ibaka & Perkins (All defensive team worthy players, Perks very underrated, Sefolosha elite perimiter defender).

How does any of this relate to OP's argument?

OP mentioned nothing of career acheivements, only posted stats

[Whoah10115]

There's no way that Durant, at 23, is better than Lebron was, at 23.




Lebron wasn't a great defender, but he wasn't any less of one than Durant. Lebron literally did everything. He wasn't just a better passer/playmaker. He ran their offense.



Lebron was better.

[LamarOdom]

LOL @ those Cavs teams being garbage.

In 2007 they made the Finals and that with LeBron shooting BELOW 43% in 15 of the 20 games. As a matter of fact, he shot below 40% in 11 of those 20 games.

And they played
41-41 Wizards
41-41 Nets
Ben Wallaceless Pistons team that went 53-29

What a joke of a playoff run

Excuse me did I say garbage? what I meant to say was superstars

http://i47.tinypic.com/73h5cg.png

[LamarOdom]

How does any of this relate to OP's argument?

OP mentioned nothing of career acheivements, only posted stats

If you continued reading and didn't stop like a retard you would know how it related.

[28renyoy]

Excuse me did I say garbage? what I meant to say was superstars

http://i47.tinypic.com/73h5cg.png

You forgot the part where Cleveland led the playoffs in opponents ppg and opponents FG%. They were the 2nd best defensive team in the playoffs behind the Spurs. Which is quite amazing seeing as their best player played no defense and turned the ball over 4 times a game in those playoffs.

That is unquestionably the most overrated playoff run in NBA history, which is why the got embarrassed when they faced a real team in the Spurs. That Cavs team loses in the 1st round in the West

LeBron's eFG% for those playoffs was 44.4..do you know how bad that is?

And he played 2 of the worst defenses in the league in the 1st 2 rounds to pad that

[LamarOdom]

You forgot the part where Cleveland led the playoffs in opponents ppg and opponents FG%. They were the 2nd best defensive team in the playoffs behind the Spurs. Which is quite amazing seeing as their best player played no defense and turned the ball over 4 times a game in those playoffs.

That is unquestionably the most overrated playoff run in NBA history, which is why the got embarrassed when they faced a real team in the Spurs. That Cavs team loses in the 1st round in the West

I don't deny the fact that the east sucked but if you would have removed LBJ from that team they wouldn't even have made the PO. LeBron maybe wasn't the defender he is today but to say LeBron played no D is dumb.

About his turnovers, firstly he turned it over 3,3pg secondly he played 45 minutes a game thirdly Durant is right now averaging 3,8 turnovers per game despite playing off the ball and playing 40 minutes a game.

His fg% was bad I agree but at the same age Durant is more ready for the playoffs since he got a GREAT jumpshot. LeBron's jumpers was bad and as I said earlier LBJ played with garbage and defense could focus on him more, doing that on Durant would open up for two deadly scorers in Harden and Westbrook.

[SilkkTheShocker]

A lot of Cavs from the 07 Finals team were traded midseason for Delonte West, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, and Wally Szcerbiak. Not sure what the Durant's ******gers point was trying to pump up that Cavs team because they played in the Finals a year before.

[pauk]

Lebron - 30/8/7 (29.1 PER)
Durant - 28/8/3 (26.1 PER)

Really???

He averaged not only up to 2 more points but 4 more assists... remember that 1 assist means the player had a hand in 2 or 3 of his teams points... 7 assists = 14-21 points... 30 ppg + 7 assists (14-21 points) = had a hand in 44-51 of his teams points a game... Durant had 28 ppg and 3 assists... 3 assists = 6-9 points... 28 ppg + 3 assists (6-9 points) = had a hand in 34-37 of his teams points a game.......

Lebron during that stage accumulated more:
points
rebounds
assists
blocks
steals
gamewinners/clutch shots
triple doubles
double doubles
player of the month awards

Durant was better at NOTHING than Lebron except the obvious... shooting... which sooooo many were/are better than Lebron at...

Then you forget Lebrons versatility.... he was starting/playing up to 4 positions even then....

Durant was a better shooter..
Lebron was a better ballhandler, passer, athlete and was a more productive scorer...

He was even then a more dominant player than Durant... previous to that year he at the age of 22 took the worst team in NBA history to be in a Finals with one of the best performances in playoff history...... what did Durant do?
the team Durant has now Lebron would absolutely annihilate the league with..

Please guys, i like Durant...... dont make him one of those overrated players... Durant was NOT a better OVERALL PLAYER than Lebron during ANY age...

[chips93]

If you continued reading and didn't stop like a retard you would know how it related.

:(


LeBron was the better ball-handler and facilitator/playmaker but that was about it. Lebron was not a particularly good defender at the time and I have to say that current Durant was better than 23 year old LeBron at it. Durant just has Lebron beat in most categories at age 23.

Stats at age 23 for both of them.

Durant ('11-'12 season) - (38.6 mpg) 28 ppg, 8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.2 bpg, 3.8 topg, 49.6% FG, 38.7% 3p, 86% ft, 61% TS, 54.7% eFG.

LeBron ('07-'08 season) - (40.3 mpg) 30 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.1 bpg, 3.4 topg, 48.4% FG, 31.5% 3p, 71.2% FT, 56.8% TS, 51.8% eFG.

Lebron scored more ppg but he did it under much worse efficiency and he also played 2 more minutes per game than Durant did at the time.

I'm not going to bring out the playoff stats yet because Durant is still in it while LeBron's playoff numbers were very weak that season. Durant's playoff numbers are much better though and you can see for yourself if you want on basketball reference.

Durant may not be better than LeBron right now at both of their current states but Durant was better than LeBron when LeBron was his age.

still cant find anything comparing team success in the OP?

:confusedshrug:

you must be right. i must be a retard :(

[SilkkTheShocker]

I always laugh when people try to pump up Lebron's garbage Cavs team. I can see the hate for losing in Miami, but those Cavs teams were garbage. Take Lebron off any of those Cavs teams and they flat out miss the playoffs.

[28renyoy]

I don't deny the fact that the east sucked but if you would have removed LBJ from that team they wouldn't even have made the PO. LeBron maybe wasn't the defender he is today but to say LeBron played no D is dumb.

About his turnovers, firstly he turned it over 3,3pg secondly he played 45 minutes a game thirdly Durant is right now averaging 3,8 turnovers per game despite playing off the ball and playing 40 minutes a game.

His fg% was bad I agree but at the same age Durant is more ready for the playoffs since he got a GREAT jumpshot. LeBron's jumpers was bad and as I said earlier LBJ played with garbage and defense could focus on him more, doing that on Durant would open up for two deadly scorers in Harden and Westbrook.

Here is your issue. You're arguing as if LeBron MADE them a great offensive team, which is why they made the Finals. The truth is that they were complete garbage on offense and an ELITE defensive team, which lebron james had very little effect on.

As for defense focusing on him more, a defense can't guard Kevin Durant. His jumper is too good and now he can actually create plays/pass out of a double team. He is too big to stop from shooting over you. And Durant demands more attention that LeBron on the basketball court because you have to guard him even when he does not have the ball.

As for the turnovers, I was speaking for the playoffs when LeBron averaged 4 a game.

There is nothing LeBron in 2008 did better than Durant in 2012 except pass. And that isn't enough to make up for the MAJOR gap in scoring efficiency.

And is 3 apg really that large of a margin when one player plays on the ball 90% of the game where the other player plays off the ball 90% of the game?

Think about all of the open looks Durant gets teammates when he doesn't have the ball by demanding attention and essentially letting him teammates go 4 on 4 when he doesn't have the ball

When taking this into consideration, it's very clearly Durant.

As for Pauk bringing out raw statistics, want to compare Durant vs LeBron this year in raw numbers? Oh well I guess LeBron is only better at passing, which so so many were, clearly Durant is the better player

[LamarOdom]

:(



still cant find anything comparing team success in the OP?

:confusedshrug:

you must be right. i must be a retard :(

Durant is sill in it sure but that doesn't matter lets say he does win or even just comes 2 the finals and loses he still have one of the most stacked teams in the league as opposed to Cavs in 06/07.

[Inactive]

Durant is a more efficient shooter than 08 Lebron, but he has more turnovers, in fewer minutes, setting up his teammates far less, and rarely handling the ball. Imo, they're close enough in production that it just comes down to which skillset you need on your team. I doubt Durant would've taken that Cavs team very far, but I don't think that OKC would be this good with 08 Lebron.

[Meticode]

LOL @ those Cavs teams being garbage.

In 2007 they made the Finals and that with LeBron shooting BELOW 43% in 15 of the 20 games. As a matter of fact, he shot below 40% in 11 of those 20 games.

And they played
41-41 Wizards
41-41 Nets
Ben Wallaceless Pistons team that went 53-29

What a joke of a playoff run
Two words, Larry Hughes. :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

No :oldlol:

Durant is a fantastic player, but Lebron is a once in a generation (maybe once in a lifetime) type talent.

[chips93]

Durant is sill in it sure but that doesn't matter lets say he does win or even just comes 2 the finals and loses he still have one of the most stacked teams in the league as opposed to Cavs in 06/07.

tbh id agree with you, just trollin earlier

durant is great right now, and you can make a case that hes better, but for me, its definitely lebron

[LamarOdom]

Here is your issue. You're arguing as if LeBron MADE them a great offensive team, which is why they made the Finals. The truth is that they were complete garbage on offense and an ELITE defensive team, which lebron james had very little effect on.

As for defense focusing on him more, a defense can't guard Kevin Durant. His jumper is too good and now he can actually create plays/pass out of a double team. He is too big to stop from shooting over you. And Durant demands more attention that LeBron on the basketball court because you have to guard him even when he does not have the ball.

As for the turnovers, I was speaking for the playoffs when LeBron averaged 4 a game.

There is nothing LeBron in 2008 did better than Durant in 2012 except pass. And that isn't enough to make up for the MAJOR gap in scoring efficiency.

And is 3 apg really that large of a margin when one player plays on the ball 90% of the game where the other player plays off the ball 90% of the game?

Think about all of the open looks Durant gets teammates when he doesn't have the ball by demanding attention and essentially letting him teammates go 4 on 4 when he doesn't have the ball

When taking this into consideration, it's very clearly Durant.

As for Pauk bringing out raw statistics, want to compare Durant vs LeBron this year in raw numbers? Oh well I guess LeBron is only better at passing, which so so many were, clearly Durant is the better player

Atleast it's very close between them, but just because LeBron managed to lead his team to the finals I'm giving him a slight edge.

[LamarOdom]

tbh id agree with you, just trollin earlier

durant is great right now, and you can make a case that hes better, but for me, its definitely lebron


:cheers: :cheers:

[ShaqAttack3234]

It's debatable. My biggest problem with pre-'09 Lebron was his jump shot. His shooting wasn't as bad as '07 in '08, but it was still erratic, and I think that got exposed vs Boston. He averaged 27/6/8 with 2.1 spg and 1.3 bpg, but he shot just 36% and averaged over 5 turnovers and that was with the big game 7. He had a good series defensively, though.

Regardless, it always says a lot to me when a player's game gets exposed in the playoffs. Players can have a key flaw and put up great numbers in the regular season because defenses aren't the same, you face plenty of bad teams, and teams aren't as focused consistently and teams aren't seeing you 4-7 consecutive games.

I felt that happened with Durant after his 30 ppg season in '10, he hasn't averaged 30 since, but he's become a better player, though he did also shoot a career high % this year and is clearly a more complete player. Others whose game I thought got exposed in the playoffs was David Robinson, who never had a good back to the basket game which is why his scoring plummeted in the postseason, and Karl Malone, who did rely quite a bit on running the floor and Stockton setting him up for easy baskets, more in the late 80's/early 90's.

Lebron did have a better rebounding season, though. Durant had just 0.6 offensive rebounds per game, Lebron averaged 1.8 in '08, but it's not really the difference, same with defense, both were good in the seasons mentioned. Wouldn't call either elite, though.

Lebron's passing and playmaking is a huge advantage, and it's something I've always valued vs other perimeter players because he's really the best non-PG in that area since Bird. Durant has gotten better and is a pretty good passer, his handles have improved as well, but he's still well below Lebron.

Despite his shooting, '08 Lebron was so physically dominant at 6'8", 260 with his athleticism. Durant isn't close to the same threat off the dribble, but teams certainly aren't backing off Durant, and he's also a superior off the ball player.

Durant is unquestionably the better scorer and his scoring also comes more within the flow of the offense, but he's not going to impact a game much when he's not scoring, while Lebron can still make a big impact.

Lebron in '08 would be better at carrying a weaker team, but I think I'd lean towards Durant on a team with talent, so I'll go with him. Lebron has definitely been better than Durant the last 4 years, though.



Excuse me did I say garbage? what I meant to say was superstars

http://i47.tinypic.com/73h5cg.png

I give Lebron credit for his playmaking during that run, but his jump shot was a real problem for me back then. Thankfully within the last year, I found out shooting numbers are available, and that Lebron shot just 34% from 16-23 feet in addition to just 32% on 3s and 70% from the line.

It's also worth noting that the Wizards didn't have their 2 best players Arenas and Butler for the playoffs and the Nets big men were Mikki Moore, Jason Collins and Josh Boone. Plus, that series was actually competitive, and that's with Vince Carter shooting 35% for the Nets, and they relied heavily on him for offense, so Lebron was fortunate to have the opposing team's star struggle so much.

Detroit was still a good team, but their defense had already fallen off when Flip took over in '06, and Ben Wallace had mentioned that they barely worked on defense anymore. Flip has always been a good offensive coach, but not much of a defensive coach. They fell off more in '07 without Big Ben to just the 7th best defensive team.

Cleveland was a top 4 defensive team and they outrebounded opponents by 3.7 rpg. He didn't have the best offensive support, but his defensive help and rebounding help was excellent. And the role players stepped up at the perfect times whether it was Gibson, Marshall or Pavlovic.

I was surprised at the time when they beat Detroit, but their team numbers were very close in the regular season. Detroit went 53-29 and Cleveland went 50-32 in the same division and Detroit outscored opponents by 4.2 ppg while Cleveland outscored opponents by 3.8 ppg.

The '07 run just didn't impress me much, and in general, it was arguably Lebron's worst year outside of his rookie season, and the only other year you could argue was worse for him was '05, and even then, he shot better.

He's become an unbelievable player, but that jump shot at the time was difficult for me to look past.

[StateOfMind12]

Durant is a more efficient shooter than 08 Lebron, but he has more turnovers, in fewer minutes, setting up his teammates far less, and rarely handling the ball. Imo, they're close enough in production that it just comes down to which skillset you need on your team. I doubt Durant would've taken that Cavs team very far, but I don't think that OKC would be this good with 08 Lebron.
Durant would have at least gotten them to the 2nd round of the playoffs with that '08 Cavs team.

Anyways, you made a good point about how Durant and LeBron wouldn't have been as successful if they had swapped roles and teams. I'm not sure why people keep bringing up what people did in '07 anyways when he didn't even win a championship. The ultimate goal is to win a championship, not make the championship series.

This LamarOdom guy is pretty much arguing nothing then again I'm purposely ignoring him because he is not worth the time.

You can only argue what they were and Durant's numbers backup that he was better at age 23 than LeBron's were at age 23. Numbers don't mean everything but even if we ignore them and just simply use the eye test or take it into context, I would still say Durant was better.

[LamarOdom]

Durant would have at least gotten them to the 2nd round of the playoffs with that '08 Cavs team.

Anyways, you made a good point about how Durant and LeBron wouldn't have been as successful if they had swapped roles and teams. I'm not sure why people keep bringing up what people did in '07 anyways when he didn't even win a championship. The ultimate goal is to win a championship, not make the championship series.

This LamarOdom guy is pretty much arguing nothing then again I'm purposely ignoring him because he is not worth the time.

You can only argue what they were and Durant's numbers backup that he was better at age 23 than LeBron's were at age 23. Numbers don't mean everything but even if we ignore them and just simply use the eye test or take it into context, I would still say Durant was better.

All righty, then if I was a Bobcat I should value this season as a Heat fan should value last?:confusedshrug:

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron in '08 would be better at carrying a weaker team, but I think I'd lean towards Durant on a team with talent, so I'll go with him. Lebron has definitely been better than Durant the last 4 years, though.

Agreed. Durant is better with average or beyond average talent but LeBron is better at being the one-man army and playing with a weaker supporting cast.

It's kind of like comparing Kobe to LeBron to be honest except Kobe actually was as complete as LeBron was or close to while Durant isn't as complete but a more efficient shooter with better shot selection and better ball-movement. The ultimate difference between Kobe and LeBron was that LeBron was a better playmaker/facilitator and also that he played in a weaker conference.

I think a lot of people ignore how unbelievably weak the East was at the time. I even made a thread asking if LeBron's team and playoff accomplishments were inflated by playing in the East and it seemed like a decent amount agreed from what I could recall at least.

Honestly, getting past the 1st or 2nd round in the West was probably just as difficult of a task as it would be to win the East or make it to the ECF back in 2007 and 2008.

I mean, the Cavs don't even make the playoffs in 2008 if they played in the West and they would have been the 6th seed in the West in 2007 which would have led them playing the Spurs and we all saw what happened in the Finals when they matched up.

[Cali Syndicate]

Durant is the better scorer and rebounder.
Lebron is the better passer, by a mile, but is also a good rebounder. So that is a wash.

Defensively, Lebron was not a good defender, at all. Durant is clearly the better defender at that age.

Isn't Westbrook is the leader on that team? Durant is more of a guidance counselor.

[KG215]

I felt that happened with Durant after his 30 ppg season in '10, he hasn't averaged 30 since, but he's become a better player, though he did also shoot a career high % this year and is clearly a more complete player. Others whose game I thought got exposed in the playoffs was David Robinson, who never had a good back to the basket game which is why his scoring plummeted in the postseason, and Karl Malone, who did rely quite a bit on running the floor and Stockton setting him up for easy baskets, more in the late 80's/early 90's.


There's a reason for that.

Westbrook
09-10: 16.1 ppg, 14.1 FGA pg
10-11: 21.9 ppg, 17.0 FGA pg
11-12: 23.6 ppg, 19.2 FGA pg

And Durant went from averaging 20.3 field-goal attempts per game to 19.7 the last two seasons. Westbrook emerging into a superstar/top 10-15 player is the main reason Durant hasn't averaged 30 ppg since, and may never average 30 a game again as long as their teammates. If it wasn't for Westbrook's emergence as a great scorer, then I'm fairly confident that'd we be talking about Durant wrapping up his 3rd straight 30+ ppg season in a row to go with his three straight scoring titles. Of course if that was the case, we'd probably also be talking about OKC's second straight 1st or 2nd round playoff exit, too.

[sick_brah07]

lebron hands down was and still is the better basketball player, durant is excellent and will be a HOF for sure, durant shines a lot because his team is built perfectly around him......

think about it this way

westrbook>>>>>>>>>>>>>mo williams
harden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pavlovic
ibaka >>>>>> gooden
perkins>ilgauskas

then consider how far lebron was taking that team


also please dont take this as a stab at OKC or Durant, they are my favourite team to watch and i think durant really is great

[lbj23clutch]

LeBron James at 21 years old= 31/7/7 on 48% with an injured Larry Hughes as the 2nd best player. :bowdown:

[che guevara]

To the people saying Lebron wasn't a good defender: just because the media didn't catch on until 2009 doesn't mean he wasn't a good defender in prior seasons.

Lebron's reputation as a bad defender came from his first two seasons when he legitimately did fall asleep on defense, lose his man, blow rotations and things like that. He improved immensely over his first few years though, and was a solid, above average defender by '07 and a very good one by '08. In fact, the best defense I've ever seen Lebron play came during the first 20 games of the '07-'08 season when he was playing with balls to the wall intensity on every play.

[28renyoy]

LeBron James at 21 years old= 31/7/7 on 48% with an injured Larry Hughes as the 2nd best player. :bowdown:

He was taking 23 shots a game. Durant at 21 averaged 30 a game on 20 shots. You give 23 year old Durant 23 shots a game and he's at 35 ppg

[inclinerator]

durant has the better jumper, lebron everything else

[28renyoy]

durant has the better jumper, lebron everything else

Where do people get this idea?

They act like LeBron is the better rebounder, shot blocker, off the ball player, defender, etc.

Because he's the better passer he's better at everything else? :lol

[knicksman]

durant is a more impactful player than lebron. His style makes teammates better. If a allstar version of durant in ray allen, miller are more impactful than players like iverson, carter, tmac then how much for the superstar version. He plays within the flow of the offense. Thats why at the age of 21, he already had a 50 win team on a tough western while lebron is still missing the playoffs in a weak east team.

[KG215]

Where do people get this idea?

They act like LeBron is the better rebounder, shot blocker, off the ball player, defender, etc.

Because he's the better passer he's better at everything else? :lol

I can't believe this, but I'm going to actually agree with you. 23 year old Durant may not be as good as 23 year old Lebron as a shot-blocker, ball thief, off-ball defender, or rebounder, but it's not like Lebron was light years ahead of Durant in those categories at 23. In fact, current Lebron isn't leaps and bounds better in those categories than 23 year old Durant. Is he better? Probably, but the only category he's A LOT better than Durant right now, is as a playmaker. I don't see Durant ever being nearly as good as Lebron as a playmaker, but I can see Durant having a few 4.5-5 apg seasons.

[che guevara]

durant is a more impactful player than lebron. His style makes teammates better. If a allstar version of durant in ray allen, miller are more impactful than players like iverson, carter, tmac then how much for the superstar version. He plays within the flow of the offense. Thats why at the age of 21, he already had a 50 win team on a tough western while lebron is still missing the playoffs in a weak east team.
I couldn't decipher the middle part of this post, but Lebron made the playoffs his third year, just like Durant. He also won 50 games in his third year like Durant.

[PJR]

LeBron also did not have Sam Presti as GM in Cleveland drafting studs left and right.

[G-Funk]

I agree, Durant is great cause he doesn't need to hold the ball to stat pad, he lets his teammates do their own thing.

[nbaballllller]

durant is a more impactful player than lebron. His style makes teammates better. If a allstar version of durant in ray allen, miller are more impactful than players like iverson, carter, tmac then how much for the superstar version. He plays within the flow of the offense. Thats why at the age of 21, he already had a 50 win team on a tough western while lebron is still missing the playoffs in a weak east team.

LOL

at 21 lebron averaged 31 7 7 on 48% shooting and led the cavs (with larry fken huges as the second best player to over 50 wins)

In the playoffs he averaged 31 8 6 on 48% and took the 64 win pistons to 7 in the ecsf

At 22 he led them to the finals and had some historic performances (obviously pistons game 5 ecf)

At 23 he led them to 7 games in the ecsf against the the eventual nba champs celtics and outdueled paul pierce in game 7 but the team came up short

Yes lebrons jump shot was inconsistent and his defense is no where near where it is today but lebron was the better player hands down

Durant is the man. arguably 2-4 best player in the league now (i think he is 2nd) but he wasnt better than lebron at 23

[knicksman]

LOL

at 21 lebron averaged 31 7 7 on 48% shooting and led the cavs (with larry fken huges as the second best player to over 50 wins)

In the playoffs he averaged 31 8 6 on 48% and took the 64 win pistons to 7 in the ecsf

At 22 he led them to the finals and had some historic performances (obviously pistons game 5 ecf)

At 23 he led them to 7 games in the ecsf against the the eventual nba champs celtics and outdueled paul pierce in game 7 but the team came up short

Yes lebrons jump shot was inconsistent and his defense is no where near where it is today but lebron was the better player hands down

Durant is the man. arguably 2-4 best player in the league now (i think he is 2nd) but he wasnt better than lebron at 23

at the age of 23, durant already had a contending team while lebron is not even a playoff team on the west. enough said. Lebron has better stats compared to durant because hes a statpadder thats why he doesnt have good teammates. Because a statpadder doesnt make his teammates better.

[knicksman]

just look at tmac, he has better stats than durant. The same with oscar robertson. But they dont have the impact. Empty stats.

[Whoah10115]

Lebron's team gets to Finals: In West, doesn't make playoffs...



OK.




This really isn't much of a question. The answer is Lebron James.

[LBJ4MVP23]

I guess Michael Jordan SUCKED in the 80's according to Knicksman and Durant IS FAR MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN MJ when comparing their first 5 years.

Jordan couldn't do anything in the playoffs (was constantly ousted early), his teams had horrible sub 50 win records, never sniffed the finals until year 7....

Yep guy sucked, pure stat padder and thats why he never made his teammates around him better until Pippen came. Those 32-88 and 35 point seasons were worthless.

See how stupid your logic is when applied to a situation outside of LBJ, or is your IQ that low that you don't realize how dumb you are?

[LBJ4MVP23]

Again MJ was averaging god-mode stats. His team never came CLOSE to the finals. This is the exact same thing you are saying about LBJ, except LBJ went to the finals at least during the same span of time.

Knicksman logic means KD through 5 years > Jordan through 5 years because stats mean nothing and your supporting cast is 100% a result of how good you are, not your gm or coach and the trades/draft picks they make.

Jordan, like LBJ, just sucked their first few years and its a shame they were such stat padders and never got any respect of their peers during this time. Too bad Durant wasn't around in the 80's to show Jordan a thing or 2 about basketball.

Moron.

[knicksman]

I guess Michael Jordan SUCKED in the 80's according to Knicksman and Durant IS FAR MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN MJ when comparing their first 5 years.

Jordan couldn't do anything in the playoffs (was constantly ousted early), his teams had horrible sub 50 win records, never sniffed the finals until year 7....

Yep guy sucked, pure stat padder and thats why he never made his teammates around him better until Pippen came. Those 32-88 and 35 point seasons were worthless.

See how stupid your logic is when applied to a situation outside of LBJ, or is your IQ that low that you don't realize how dumb you are?


Didnt jordan admitted that the time he set aside stats is the time he won a championship. Jordan was a statpadder during his early days. Thats why he was a loser too. Durant came into the league already mature thats why hes already a winner from the get go.

[LBJ4MVP23]

It has nothing to do with Durant having Westbrook or Harden, 2 top 25 players and 1 with a claim to being a top 5 pg, the other a top 10 scorer. Or Ibaka the runner up defensive player of the year?

Who did Jordan have? Who did LBJ have? Oh thats right, good call. You really know basketball and your logic is fantastic.

Btw getting to the finals > anything durant has done accomplishment wise, and the "stat padder" lbj has had more 60 win seasons with a far worse cast than Durant who has 0.

And again, you just admitted above to the following:

Durant through 5 years > Jordan through 5. You fail.

[LBJ4MVP23]

And no Jordan didn't admitted anything, nor did he ADMIT anything. Open a book and stop typing until you grasp basic english. After that take a basic logic class so you can than use your new found ability to form sentences to make a cohesive, logical sentence and connection of thoughts.

[knicksman]

Again MJ was averaging god-mode stats. His team never came CLOSE to the finals. This is the exact same thing you are saying about LBJ, except LBJ went to the finals at least during the same span of time.

Knicksman logic means KD through 5 years > Jordan through 5 years because stats mean nothing and your supporting cast is 100% a result of how good you are, not your gm or coach and the trades/draft picks they make.

Jordan, like LBJ, just sucked their first few years and its a shame they were such stat padders and never got any respect of their peers during this time. Too bad Durant wasn't around in the 80's to show Jordan a thing or 2 about basketball.

Moron.

Once jordan stopped statpadding, the team starts winning. Chicago bulls 47 wins when he had almost a triple double. LOL

[StateOfMind12]

To the people saying Lebron wasn't a good defender: just because the media didn't catch on until 2009 doesn't mean he wasn't a good defender in prior seasons.

Lebron's reputation as a bad defender came from his first two seasons when he legitimately did fall asleep on defense, lose his man, blow rotations and things like that. He improved immensely over his first few years though, and was a solid, above average defender by '07 and a very good one by '08. In fact, the best defense I've ever seen Lebron play came during the first 20 games of the '07-'08 season when he was playing with balls to the wall intensity on every play.
Their defenses at age 23 were still about equal with possibly the slight edge to Durant.

I would only call Lebron an above average defender at best in '08. The ultimate reason for LeBron's improvement on defense from '08 to '09 was because of the 2008 Beijing Olympics. I think being around players like Kobe, Kidd, etc. ultimately helped him into being a better and smarter defender.


I can't believe this, but I'm going to actually agree with you. 23 year old Durant may not be as good as 23 year old Lebron as a shot-blocker, ball thief, off-ball defender, or rebounder, but it's not like Lebron was light years ahead of Durant in those categories at 23. In fact, current Lebron isn't leaps and bounds better in those categories than 23 year old Durant. Is he better? Probably, but the only category he's A LOT better than Durant right now, is as a playmaker. I don't see Durant ever being nearly as good as Lebron as a playmaker, but I can see Durant having a few 4.5-5 apg seasons.
Who is your pick between Durant at 23 or LeBron at 23?

[knicksman]

And no Jordan didn't admitted anything, nor did he ADMIT anything. Open a book and stop typing until you grasp basic english. After that take a basic logic class so you can than use your new found ability to form sentences to make a cohesive, logical sentence and connection of thoughts.

I never knew logic is related to english. LMAO Logic is analysis while english is memory. But thanks for that coz youre just exposing your IQ. And Low IQs dont put into context the strength of the conference when saying lebron went to finals. And oh durant had higher W-L% this season than miami while having worse teammates. So what made you think that durant cant have 60+ seasons when he had a better W-L% at the age 23 compared to lebrons 45-37. LOL

[Micku]

Didnt jordan admitted that the time he set aside stats is the time he won a championship. Jordan was a statpadder during his early days. Thats why he was a loser too. Durant came into the league already mature thats why hes already a winner from the get go.

I don't recall him saying that. A link would be good tho.

Shaq said that tho. But he put up his best stats in 2000 when he won a championship.

If you check out his 1986 playoffs, Jordan was the only person to keep them in the game. You took Jordan out, the Celts would blow them out even more.

Jordan did play better teamball when Phil Jackson started to coach and introduce the triangle. He played within the flow of the offense.

[KG215]

Who is your pick between Durant at 23 or LeBron at 23?

Probably LeBron, but not by a lot. Both LeBron's and Durant's age 22 and 23 seasons were just completely different in terms of teammates, role, etc.

Durant, at 22 and 23, has now been the best player on back-to-back WCF teams. You can argue that making the WCF right now is tougher than making the Finals from the East when LeBron did it with Cleveland. He has that going for him. If he has a good series and gets OKC past San Antonio and to the Finals, then I may change my mind.

And I get the teammate argument. Durant has played the last two seasons with Westbrook, who has emerged as a top 10-12 player in the league, and Harden who's a border line All-Star and will eventually make an All-Star team or two or three; while LeBron played with Larry Hughes, Zydrunas Ilgauskus, and Drew Gooden. Taking that team to the finals was impressive. I don't care if he did it in the East.

To me, when I watch LeBron, it just feels like (then and now) that he has a bigger overall impact on the game. That's partially because he's such a polarizing figure and you notice almost everything he does; even ordinary things like an uncontested offensive rebound and putback. or a routine pass to a wide-open teammate under the basket. Durant's overall impact on a game may usually be equal or even bigger than LeBron's, but it's done so in a much quieter manner.

We've yet to see how Durant will perform in the Finals. Hopefully he'll get to a few (and win at least once) so we can see if he can be as clutch then as he's already been in other rounds of the playoffs. LeBron really scarred his image last year in the finals but, going by who they were/are at 23, I'd probably pick LeBron over Durant.

[bluechox2]

durant has another arguably top 5 playing along side him

[LamarOdom]

I never knew logic is related to english. LMAO Logic is analysis while english is memory. But thanks for that coz youre just exposing your IQ. And Low IQs dont put into context the strength of the conference when saying lebron went to finals. And oh durant had higher W-L% this season than miami while having worse teammates. So what made you think that durant cant have 60+ seasons when he had a better W-L% at the age 23 compared to lebrons 45-37. LOL

You actually saying LBJ have a better team than Durant?

OKC team is stacked and have alot of depth+ more balanced team while Heat have a team that sucks plus Wade missed like 15-20 games this year.

[Bigsmoke]

James Harden is better then anybody LeBron played with in Cleveland.

LeBron missed 7 games in 2008 and the Cavs lost all 7 games. That team was trash outside of LeBron James.

hell.. this current THunder team would have lose to the Celtics that year too.

[pegasus]

Why are you guys comparing their teammates? Do you think Durant is better than Lebron was at the age of 23? My answer is, yes.

[CeltsGarlic]

NO fakin way! You prob havent seen LBJ at 23, dude was a monster.

[StateOfMind12]

NO fakin way! You prob havent seen LBJ at 23, dude was a monster.
I saw Lebron at 23 and Durant at 23 was much better than LeBron was at 23. Post-season performances from the two of them back it up.

[Ai2death]

Lebron was clearly better. Yeah Durants stats are up there. But he also has a far superior team to lebron and the cavs. Lebron did everything and every team would double tripple team him. He carried the whole load all season. Durant shares the load \thread

[Indian guy]

With the exception of '09 and '10, I would say current Durant is better than all versions of LeBron.

[28renyoy]

Time to change thread title OP.

Kevin Durant at age 23 is better than LeBron James at age 27

[lebeast666]

Please don't compare those two players. Durant has never been in the position LeBron was. The team KD has, LeBron hasn't had in his whole entire career and I'm talking about this Miami Heat team too. KD has one thing on his shoulders and that's to score

[KG215]

Time to change thread title OP.

Kevin Durant at age 23 is better than LeBron James at age 27

Gotta win that ring first. Getting to the NBA Finals is no different than LeBron getting to the Finals at 22 years old. Durant's numbers have been better and he went through a tougher road to get to the Finals, but he also has a better supporting cast than LeBron did in 2007.