Can we all agree Dallas's championship run last year was a fluke

[Doctor K]

Come on. a fluke is something that never happens before, happens once, and then never happens again. aka Dallas's magical title run

[DTreats]

Doesn't make it worth any less

[MontaEllis24]

still one ring more than others

[ElPigto]

I wish the Rockets could have a fluke season and win another championship.

[gin17]

how is it a fluke to win over the stacked teams of last year? they battled through the ex-champion lakers, the okc, the heat... you cannot win over those with just luck, especially for a 7-game series for each

[StateOfMind12]

Yes, because the Mavericks this season were the exact same team as last season. :rolleyes:

It just goes to show you how important players like Chandler, Stevenson, and Barea were in the post-season for Dallas last season. I would say even Peja and Brewer were important in that series. I remember Peja knocking down clutch shots in Game 3 vs. the Lakers and Brewer played a good game against LA as well.

[ThunderKat]

I wouldn't call it a fluke... they lost Stevenson, Chandler and Barea. They just couldn't afford to keep all of those guys and they were a different team because of losing those guys.

[sbw19]

Heat should've won, but in no way was it a fluke.

[SCdac]

they really came together last season. they earned it, deserved it, and were a deep team... having said that, look at the league now and last season. Shaq is out, Duncan and KG are on their last legs, Kobe will be out soon... look at the elite big men today... it's a different league and the Mavs took advantage of it fair and square.

[SuperPippen]

No, we can't. Because it wasn't.

Dirk played out of his mind, the team was deep, and surprised everybody, probably even themselves. They were a very good team, and they earned that title, no doubt about it.

This year's team was simply inferior.

[bdreason]

It wasn't a fluke. How can a 7 game series be a fluke? :oldlol:


They got hot at the right time, and capitalized.

[Doctor K]

Yes, because the Mavericks this season were the exact same team as last season. :rolleyes:

It just goes to show you how important players like Chandler, Stevenson, and Barea were in the post-season for Dallas last season. I would say even Peja and Brewer were important in that series. I remember Peja knocking down clutch shots in Game 3 vs. the Lakers and Brewer played a good game against LA as well.
So you're saying Chandler/Stevenson/Barea can make the difference from a 1st round sweep exit to a championship team? :facepalm

how stupid are you? not even nba superstars can have that affect

[AMISTILLILL]

Can we all agree OP is a f.aggot?

[iamgine]

Come on. a fluke is something that never happens before, happens once, and then never happens again. aka Dallas's magical title run
Not really. Tyson Chandler was a great defensive presence. Imagine the championship Pistons team without Ben Wallace.

[CelticBaller]

Can we all agree OP is a f.aggot?
and a drug addict

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Yes

They Ran into an injured Kobe and a Lakers team that was physically and mentally fatigued after 3 straight NBAfinals. Then Lebron choked in the finals and gave it to them.

Fluke

[imnew09]

swept the Lakers, defeated the OKC and Heat... and you call it a fluke.

Ish fans always impress me.

[R.I.P.]

they really came together last season. they earned it, deserved it, and were a deep team... having said that, look at the league now and last season. Shaq is out, Duncan and KG are on their last legs, Kobe will be out soon... look at the elite big men today... it's a different league and the Mavs took advantage of it fair and square.

You act like Kidd, Dirk, Terry, Marion and Peja were spring chicken. :lol

This championship will stand the test of time and be upgraded, since the Heat and/or Thunder will win championships in the future and the Mavs slayed them like they did the defending champion Lakers.

[Doctor K]

It wasn't a fluke. How can a 7 game series be a fluke? :oldlol:


They got hot at the right time, and capitalized.

Thats what i'm sayin. thats what a fluke is. they got hot at the right time, and won. things just favored them fluke stuff hard to get lucky like that again

[StateOfMind12]

So you're saying Chandler/Stevenson/Barea can make the difference from a 1st round sweep exit to a championship team? :facepalm

how stupid are you? not even nba superstars can have that affect
If you replace them with nothing or with trash then yes.

You really think it is easy to replace a DPOY caliber player in Tyson Chandler? Chandler was 3rd in DPOY voting last season. It's not like he just broke out and played defensively this season. Chandler made a huge impact for the Mavericks despite what the numbers say.

Stevenson was a good shooter, stretched the floor, was a tough player, and a very good perimeter defender.

Barea had the ability to break down the defense, create his own shot and for others whereas the 2012 Mavericks team did not have anyone that can do that.

So they lost a DPOY interior anchor in Tyson Chandler, a solid shooter and a tough perimeter defender in DeShawn Stevenson, and a player that can break down a defense and create his own shot and for others in JJ Barea.

But yeah, they pretty much lost nothing. :rolleyes: :facepalm

[Kobe 4 The Win]

You act like Kidd, Dirk, Terry, Marion and Peja were spring chicken. :lol

This championship will stand the test of time and be upgraded, since the Heat and/or Thunder will win championships in the future and the Mavs slayed them like they did the defending champion Lakers.


:biggums:

[AMISTILLILL]

Yes

They Ran into an injured Kobe and a Lakers team that was physically and mentally fatigued after 3 straight NBAfinals. Then Lebron choked in the finals and gave it to them.

Fluke

Oh, so they ran into normal playoff circumstances? Thanks for clearing that up. Let's write off that 2010 Lakers ring, since the Celtics were playing with a KG still hobbled from the '09 injury, no Perkins and tired from two Finals runs in three seasons.

Get real.

[R.I.P.]

Yes

They Ran into an injured Kobe and a Lakers team that was physically and mentally fatigued after 3 straight NBAfinals. Then Lebron choked in the finals and gave it to them.

Fluke

I think we put an asterisk on each of Kobe

[Doctor K]

Not really. Tyson Chandler was a great defensive presence. Imagine the championship Pistons team without Ben Wallace.
once again, can a guy like chandler by himself make the difference from a 1st round sweep exit to a championship team? no.

[RazorBaLade]

Derr. If gasols gf doesn't catch him creeping or whatever it was which ultimately led him to his poor mentality and running into dirk at the end of gm 1 for no reason the lakers are going for 4 in a row right now.

[R.I.P.]

Derr. If gasols gf doesn't catch him creeping or whatever it was which ultimately led him to his poor mentality and running into dirk at the end of gm 1 for no reason the lakers are going for 4 in a row right now.

Yeah because Gasol hasn

[bdreason]

Thats what i'm sayin. thats what a fluke is. they got hot at the right time, and won. things just favored them fluke stuff hard to get lucky like that again


They won FOUR 7-game series. You don't 'fluke' your way into 4 wins. Trying to discredit a team because they got hot at the right time is retarded. I could point out multiple champions from the past that did the same thing. It's called playing your best ball at the right time, and every team in the league tries to do it.

[Kurosawa0]

Derr. If gasols gf doesn't catch him creeping or whatever it was which ultimately led him to his poor mentality and running into dirk at the end of gm 1 for no reason the lakers are going for 4 in a row right now.

It wasn't just Gasol. That whole team played like crap. Kobe was virtually non-existent in that series after game 1.

[RazorBaLade]

It wasn't just Gasol. That whole team played like crap. Kobe was virtually non-existent in that series after game 1.

They would have gotten it going and OKC just wasn't ready last year. Dallas was the only challenge last year. Bynum was getting better every game, ron getting into form.

[Doctor K]

They won FOUR 7-game series. You don't 'fluke' your way into 4 wins. Trying to discredit a team because they got hot at the right time is retarded. I could point out multiple champions from the past that did the same thing. It's called playing your best ball at the right time, and every team in the league tries to do it.
there is a difference between getting hot at the right time and playing the best you can play at the right time. the former is a fluke and thats what u described dallas as.

[SCdac]

You act like Kidd, Dirk, Terry, Marion and Peja were spring chicken. :lol

This championship will stand the test of time and be upgraded, since the Heat and/or Thunder will win championships in the future and the Mavs slayed them like they did the defending champion Lakers.

Eh, the Thunder's roster didn't even change... When Pau Gasol and Chris Bosh are the best big men the 2011 Mavs faced I think it's just a different league, in a transition. The Mavs had perfect timing in that transition. hell, it was just durants and westbrooks second time in the playoffs last season, and heat threw a rag-tag group of players together in which half of their team basically retired since then.

The Mavs shouldn't have dismantled their solid team IMO. bite the bullet and dish out the dough.

[Doctor K]

If you replace them with nothing or with trash then yes.

You really think it is easy to replace a DPOY caliber player in Tyson Chandler? Chandler was 3rd in DPOY voting last season. It's not like he just broke out and played defensively this season. Chandler made a huge impact for the Mavericks despite what the numbers say.

Stevenson was a good shooter, stretched the floor, was a tough player, and a very good perimeter defender.

Barea had the ability to break down the defense, create his own shot and for others whereas the 2012 Mavericks team did not have anyone that can do that.

So they lost a DPOY interior anchor in Tyson Chandler, a solid shooter and a tough perimeter defender in DeShawn Stevenson, and a player that can break down a defense and create his own shot and for others in JJ Barea.

But yeah, they pretty much lost nothing. :rolleyes: :facepalm

LOL

Chris Bosh and LeBron James being added to the Heat did not even make that big of a difference as you are claiming Chandler/Barea/Stevenson can make.


F*uck you are stupid as hell. Yeah man Tyson Chandler/Barea/Stevenson >>>> Chris bosh and LeBron james. You're a complete dumbass if you think Chandler/Barea/Stevenson cna take a team from 1st round sweep as a 7th seed to CHAMPIONSHIP. In fact look at teh Knicks LOL. How did Chandler change them? According to your logic they should've won the titel this year...but...



And way to ignore additions dallas made like VC :facepalm

[Kurosawa0]

They would have gotten it going and OKC just wasn't ready last year. Dallas was the only challenge last year. Bynum was getting better every game, ron getting into form.

Okay, sure...

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Dallas is and has always been a team full of bridesmaids. In 2011 they had a few role players step up and play out of their minds and they caught a few lucky breaks (Kobe,Gasol,Lebron).

Fluke

[Derka]

No, we can't.

I love this kind of thinking merely for the depth of stupid it represents.

[Shepseskaf]

Can we all agree OP is a f.aggot?
Let's take it easy on the name calling. The OP isn't the only one who said that the Mavs 2011 championship was a fluke.


Nowitzki still puts up numbers (21.6 points and 6.8 rebounds per game in the regular season) for a Dallas team that depends on him like a toddler depends on his mother. He lucked into a fluke championship last year, but considering he should have won a title in 2006, it's in many ways a basketball wrong made right.

Dirk deserves that one ring. With the emphasis on one. Now, he can go about fading further and further away from the true superstars' table.
Article Link (http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/05-01-12-outclassed-dirk-nowitzki-fails-thrice-mavericks-star-no-kevin-durant-and-the-fluke-champs-are-doomed/)

Its hard not to look back at last year and ask some hard questions. Given the player losses from last year, how could this team have deteriorated so fast?

Tyson Chandler was certainly a big factor, but the Mavs had another 7-footer, so it wasn't like size went out the window. All of the other losses were strictly role players, none of whom made a big impact this year.

[StateOfMind12]

LOL

Chris Bosh and LeBron James being added to the Heat did not even make that big of a difference as you are claiming Chandler/Barea/Stevenson can make.


F*uck you are stupid as hell. Yeah man Tyson Chandler/Barea/Stevenson >>>> Chris bosh and LeBron james



And way to ignore additions dallas made like VC :facepalm
Yes, because Vince Carter can do the things DeShawn Stevenson and JJ Barea could do. :rolleyes: Vince Carter is nothing more than some spot up 3 point shooter these days although he is pretty decent at it. He is not a good defender, he can't break the defense down, he can't do anything except spot up and shoot 3s.

The closest player that got replaced on that '11 Mavericks team was DeShawn Stevenson with Delonte West. West isn't as big and as versatile as Stevenson is though so it wasn't necessarily a good replacement. Barea and his role was never replaced and Chandler and his role was definitely never replaced and probably can't be replaced unless they get Dwight Howard next season.

Another reason why the Mavericks were so much better last season than they were this season is because of Dirk. Dirk didn't seem to care very much this season at all. He came into the season out of shape and pretty much hungover from the championship he won last season. He just wasn't motivated to win as much this season compared to how much he wanted to win last season. Dirk doesn't have that Kobe mentality of constantly wanting to win championships. It seems like he is just content with one title.

[Doctor K]

Yes, because Vince Carter can do the things DeShawn Stevenson and JJ Barea could do. :rolleyes: Vince Carter is nothing more than some spot up 3 point shooter these days although he is pretty decent at it. He is not a good defender, he can't break the defense down, he can't do anything except spot up and shoot 3s.

The closest player that got replaced on that '11 Mavericks team was DeShawn Stevenson with Delonte West. Barea and his role was never replaced and Chandler and his role was definitely never replaced and probably can't be replaced unless they get Dwight Howard next season.

Another reason why the Mavericks were so much better last season than they were this season is because of Dirk. Dirk didn't seem to care very much this season at all. He came into the season out of shape and pretty much hungover from the championship he won last season. He just wasn't motivated to win as much this season compared to how much he wanted to win last season. Dirk doesn't have that Kobe mentality of constantly wanting to win championships. It seems like he is just content with one title.

You are saying basically Chandler can take a team from 7th seed playoff 1st round sweep to championship

Tell me how much he changed the Knicks. Did the Knicks become a championship team this year? Did they even become contenders?


Bro like i said the best players in the game can't take a team from 7th seed 1st round exit to championship. And you are saying Chandler can :facepalm

[Doctor K]

Let's take it easy on the name calling. The OP isn't the only one who said that the Mavs 2011 championship was a fluke.


Article Link (http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/05-01-12-outclassed-dirk-nowitzki-fails-thrice-mavericks-star-no-kevin-durant-and-the-fluke-champs-are-doomed/)

Its hard not to look back at last year and ask some hard questions. Given the player losses from last year, how could this team have deteriorated so fast?

Tyson Chandler was certainly a big factor, but the Mavs had another 7-footer, so it wasn't like size went out the window. All of the other losses were strictly role players, none of whom made a big impact this year.

Thank you

someone who doesn't see everything as black and white

[DirkNowitzki41]

Wow. I hope you're just trolling.. how is it possible to have a fluke championship run? You can have a fluke series(not really) or a couple of fluke games, but not a whole championship run.

The Mavs last year were a true championship contending team that no one paid attention to, which is why we were always the underdogs in every series... Dirk played like Dirk, but the difference is we had a real Center, JET and Kidd were producing, and we played tough defense. No matter what you say, it's not a fluke if you beat 4 very tough teams.

All that bullshit excuses like the locker room issues the Lakers had, or OKC being young and inexperienced when they were still really good and just came off a 7 game series against a good team like Memphis, is just retarded.. Dallas was just the better team. No need to discredit them.

I think just because we got swept this year, you thought last year was a fluke, despite having a completely different and weaker team.

[AMISTILLILL]

Let's take it easy on the name calling. The OP isn't the only one who said that the Mavs 2011 championship was a fluke.


Article Link (http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/05-01-12-outclassed-dirk-nowitzki-fails-thrice-mavericks-star-no-kevin-durant-and-the-fluke-champs-are-doomed/)

Its hard not to look back at last year and ask some hard questions. Given the player losses from last year, how could this team have deteriorated so fast?

Tyson Chandler was certainly a big factor, but the Mavs had another 7-footer, so it wasn't like size went out the window. All of the other losses were strictly role players, none of whom made a big impact this year.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd286/snakemaster9/ckyou.gif

[SpecialQue]

Can we all agree OP is a f.aggot?

Yes.

[bdreason]

Lakers got swept last year too. I guess their 2010 title was a fluke.

Flukes don't happen in 7 game series. If you want to see some fluke wins, go watch the NCAA tourney.

[Doctor K]

Wow. I hope you're just trolling.. how is it possible to have a fluke championship run? You can have a fluke series(not really) or a couple of fluke games, but not a whole championship run.

The Mavs last year were a true championship contending team that no one paid attention to, which is why we were always the underdogs in every series... Dirk played like Dirk, but the difference is we had a real Center, JET and Kidd were producing, and we played tough defense. No matter what you say, it's not a fluke if you beat 4 very tough teams.

All that bullshit excuses like the locker room issues the Lakers had, or OKC being young and inexperienced when they were still really good and just came off a 7 game series against a good team like Memphis, is just retarded.. Dallas was just the better team. No need to discredit them.

I think just because we got swept this year, you thought last year was a fluke, despite having a completely different and weaker team.

players have fluke full seasons. and ur telling me it is impossible to have a fluke playoffs? :wtf:

[SpecialQue]

Can we all agree OP is a f.aggot?

:lebronamazed:

[Doctor K]

Lakers got swept last year too. I guess their 2010 title was a fluke.

Flukes don't happen in 7 game series. If you want to see some fluke wins, go watch the NCAA tourney.
except they were a top team before and/or after their title runs....Dallas? fluke

[DirkNowitzki41]

players have fluke full seasons. and ur telling me it is impossible to have a fluke playoffs? :wtf:

Fluke seasons? Like who?

[SpecialQue]

http://i.imgur.com/Z239q.jpg

[SpecialQue]

http://i.imgur.com/d5KYT.gif

[Artillery]

Mavs earned it but their role players definitely had a fluke-type year - they were shooting lights out from three point range throughout the playoffs. Don't really see that too often

[SpecialQue]

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/funny-gifs-childhood-memories.gif

[bdreason]

except they were a top team before and/or after their title runs....Dallas? fluke

Dallas has been an elite playoff team for the past decade.

[Doctor K]

Dallas has been an elite playoff team for the past decade.
by top i mean at least top 3. la was before their 2010 title run. and they arguably still are.

[Doctor K]

Fluke seasons? Like who?
ever watch some baseball bro?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/loaizes01.shtml

check 2003. look at the rest of his carere.

100s more examples can be given if needed

[Doctor K]

Another flike season


http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrad01.shtml


check 2004. look at the rest of his career.

[Shepseskaf]

The Mavs last year were a true championship contending team that no one paid attention to, which is why we were always the underdogs in every series...
I think that last year's Mavs played at their highest level at just the right time, and got some very lucky breaks.

In terms of measuring champions, I would call the 2011 Mavs the weakest team in the last 20 years. Anyone who disagrees, name one other championship squad that you think the Mavs could beat in a series.

To me, a true championship team is one that you can honestly say beat all opponents that were playing at, or near, their best. This simply can't be said of the Mavs, because if LBJ didn't have a brain fart that only he can explain, the Heat would be the 2011 champs.

[DStebb716]

OP getting laid was a fluke... by his definition.

[DirkNowitzki41]

I think that last year's Mavs played at their highest level at just the right time, and got some very lucky breaks.

In terms of measuring champions, I would call the 2011 Mavs the weakest team in the last 20 years. Anyone who disagrees, name one other championship squad that you think the Mavs could beat in a series.

To me, a true championship team is one that you can honestly say beat all opponents that were playing at, or near, their best. This simply can't be said of the Mavs, because if LBJ didn't have a brain fart that only he can explain, the Heat would be the 2011 champs.

Well you said name one championship team that we can beat, we could have easily beat the 06 Heat.

Sure LBJ wasnt close to himself, but why is it that he just simply choked?? Why can't it be because of the Mavs defense that just bothered LeBron all series long? LeBron had an amazing 2011 playoffs before he faced the Mavs, I just feel the Mavs D deserves some credit for all of that.

[Shepseskaf]

Well you said name one championship team that we can beat, we could have easily beat the 06 Heat.

Sure LBJ wasnt close to himself, but why is it that he just simply choked?? Why can't it be because of the Mavs defense that just bothered LeBron all series long? LeBron had an amazing 2011 playoffs before he faced the Mavs, I just feel the Mavs D deserves some credit for all of that.
Last year, I would say that both the Bulls and the Celtics were better defensively than the Mavs -- and LeBron ripped both of them.

Something went wrong with LBJ last year in the finals. Yes, the Mavs did play very good D, especially Marion and Chandler, but to say that it was the main factor in LeBron's 4th quarter issues is a stretch.

[Doctor K]

Last year, I would say that both the Bulls and the Celtics were better defensively than the Mavs -- and LeBron ripped both of them.

Something went wrong with LBJ last year in the finals. Yes, the Mavs did play very good D, especially Marion and Chandler, but to say that it was the main factor in LeBron's 4th quarter issues is a stretch.
On a side-note...Vegas made a sh*t load of money with Dallas winning it all...hmmm...something did go wrong with LeBron...

[DMAVS41]

I think that last year's Mavs played at their highest level at just the right time, and got some very lucky breaks.

In terms of measuring champions, I would call the 2011 Mavs the weakest team in the last 20 years. Anyone who disagrees, name one other championship squad that you think the Mavs could beat in a series.

To me, a true championship team is one that you can honestly say beat all opponents that were playing at, or near, their best. This simply can't be said of the Mavs, because if LBJ didn't have a brain fart that only he can explain, the Heat would be the 2011 champs.

Not only could the Mavs last year beat the 03 Spurs and 06 Heat, but they would be favored in that series.

Hell, look how close the Mavs came to beating both of those teams in those respective years. And the 11 Mavs were light years better than both of the 03 and 06 Mavs.

I agree that they are one of the weaker championship teams on paper, but they played way above their paper resume. Oh, throw in the 99 Spurs as a team we could have beat...and the 00 Lakers.

[shortsoptional]

Last year, I would say that both the Bulls and the Celtics were better defensively than the Mavs -- and LeBron ripped both of them.

Something went wrong with LBJ last year in the finals. Yes, the Mavs did play very good D, especially Marion and Chandler, but to say that it was the main factor in LeBron's 4th quarter issues is a stretch.

I won't disagree that Bulls and Celtics had better D's overall, but I would argue that they style of D that Dallas played often (ZONE), which is a credit to the coaching, played a large factor.

The zone defense turned LeBron and Wade in to jump shooters.

[west_tip]

Well you said name one championship team that we can beat, we could have easily beat the 06 Heat.



Id take the Mavs against 02 Lakers too.

Kings took them to 7 games and lost due to
Horry fluke shot
Shit reffing and
Shit freethrow shooting in game 7.

The Mavs would go one better than the 02 Kings imo.

[TrueRob]

The 2010-2011 Mavs didn't really 'sneak' up on anyone. They started the season 24-5 and beat most of the top teams (on the road). They also snapped big winning streaks for several teams. They would often go on crazy defensive runs where they would get stop after stop.

Dirk was playing at an MVP level drawing double & triple teams, they had lots of 3-point shooters and Chandler was dominating defensively. They looked like a championship team for sure... well before the team fell apart in the regular season with injuries. I was surprised they were able to go on that championship run without Caron Butler, but that just shows how good they were.

[Shepseskaf]

Not only could the Mavs last year beat the 03 Spurs and 06 Heat, but they would be favored in that series.

Hell, look how close the Mavs came to beating both of those teams in those respective years. And the 11 Mavs were light years better than both of the 03 and 06 Mavs.

I agree that they are one of the weaker championship teams on paper, but they played way above their paper resume. Oh, throw in the 99 Spurs as a team we could have beat...and the 00 Lakers.
Are you freaking kidding me with this? I know you're a proven delusional Dirk fan, but the over-rating of the 2011 Mavs team must stop.

There is no way in hell that the 2011 Mavs would be favored over the 2003 Spurs. A prime Duncan would have put Dirk on lockdown. The '00 Lakers would have crashed the Mavs. The '99 Spurs, with Duncan and DRob? Please. The Mavs had their chances to be the '06 Heat, but didn't. What does that say?

Please stop the jokes. The 2011 Mavs are the weakest championship squad in 20 years. I stand by that statement.

[RaininTwos]

DMAVS, lmao.

You are truly silly.

[Shepseskaf]

The zone defense turned LeBron and Wade in to jump shooters.
It was much more than that.

[TrueRob]

LeBron had trouble against Dallas in the two regular season match-ups. The Finals were just a repeat of what happened during the regular season games.

[DMAVS41]

Are you freaking kidding me with this? I know you're a proven delusional Dirk fan, but the over-rating of the 2011 Mavs team must stop.

There is no way in hell that the 2011 Mavs would be favored over the 2003 Spurs. A prime Duncan would have put Dirk on lockdown. The '00 Lakers would have crashed the Mavs. The '99 Spurs, with Duncan and DRob? Please. The Mavs had their chances to be the '06 Heat, but didn't. What does that say?

Please stop the jokes. The 2011 Mavs are the weakest championship squad in 20 years. I stand by that statement.

Answer me two questions please:

1. Was Dirk better in 2003 or in 2011?

2. Were the Mavericks better in 2003 or 2011?

Somehow Dirk found a way to get it done against Duncan and the Spurs. In 03, in game 1, Dirk went into SA and dropped 38 and 15 and upset the Spurs.

In 06, Dirk went nuts the last 4 games and led a team definitely worse than the 11 Mavs over a Spurs team far better than 03.

Stop it with this non sense.

And I also have to love how inconsistent this shit is. You have people calling them the worst team to win in the last 20 years....and then people saying that if they had brought the same team back they would have won again.

So which is it? A fluke that was all luck? Or did they actually play great in the playoffs from start to finish?

I just have to laugh at the notion that the 11 Mavs would have no chance against teams like the 99 Spurs, 00 Lakers, 03 Spurs, and 06 Heat. Just absurd.

[iamgine]

once again, can a guy like chandler by himself make the difference from a 1st round sweep exit to a championship team? no.
Remember Ben Wallace? Without him the Pistons were 1st round exit material.

Also, had Dallas play Utah, they'd advance. They just seeded too low without Chandler.

[RaininTwos]

Remember Ben Wallace? Without him the Pistons were 1st round exit material.

Also, had Dallas play Utah, they'd advance. They just seeded too low without Chandler.
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[tpols]

Answer me two questions please:

1. Was Dirk better in 2003 or in 2011?

2. Were the Mavericks better in 2003 or 2011?

Somehow Dirk found a way to get it done against Duncan and the Spurs. In 03, in game 1, Dirk went into SA and dropped 38 and 15 and upset the Spurs.

In 06, Dirk went nuts the last 4 games and led a team definitely worse than the 11 Mavs over a Spurs team far better than 03.

Stop it with this non sense.

And I also have to love how inconsistent this shit is. You have people calling them the worst team to win in the last 20 years....and then people saying that if they had brought the same team back they would have won again.

So which is it? A fluke that was all luck? Or did they actually play great in the playoffs from start to finish?

I just have to laugh at the notion that the 11 Mavs would have no chance against teams like the 99 Spurs, 00 Lakers, 03 Spurs, and 06 Heat. Just absurd.
I think what people mean when they say the Mavs are one of the weakest championship teams is that they wouldn't be able to replicate that kind of performance if given a chance against other championship teams. They're not gonna have as many balls bounce their way every time.

[Shepseskaf]

Answer me two questions please:

1. Was Dirk better in 2003 or in 2011?

2. Were the Mavericks better in 2003 or 2011?

Somehow Dirk found a way to get it done against Duncan and the Spurs. In 03, in game 1, Dirk went into SA and dropped 38 and 15 and upset the Spurs.

In 06, Dirk went nuts the last 4 games and led a team definitely worse than the 11 Mavs over a Spurs team far better than 03.

Stop it with this non sense.
You're the one who needs to stop with the nonsense. It doesn't matter whether the Mavs were better in 2003. Duncan was the MVP that year, and he was definitively better than Dirk.


And I also have to love how inconsistent this shit is. You have people calling them the worst team to win in the last 20 years....and then people saying that if they had brought the same team back they would have won again.

So which is it? A fluke that was all luck? Or did they actually play great in the playoffs from start to finish?
There's no inconsistency. Different people have different opinions. My view has remained consistent; I can't control what other people say.


I just have to laugh at the notion that the 11 Mavs would have no chance against teams like the 99 Spurs, 00 Lakers, 03 Spurs, and 06 Heat. Just absurd.
I have to laugh at your notion that the 2011 Mavs would beat any of those teams in a series.

[DMAVS41]

I think what people mean when they say the Mavs are one of the weakest championship teams is that they wouldn't be able to replicate that kind of performance if given a chance against other championship teams. They're not gonna have as many balls bounce their way every time.

But that is implying that it was "luck"...and that is a very slippery slope and a game we could play with any number of title winning teams.

And certainly you can admit the 11 Mavs were just better than the 06 Mavs. So this notion that this team wouldn't have a shot to beat the teams I listed is absurd.

The facts remain that the 11 Mavs beat some of the best teams/players in the league. They played great in crunch time. Dirk had the best clutch playoff run by far of this era.

If you are going to get into a hypothetical, you have to give them credit for what they did. I don't really care how likely they were to do it....they ****ing did do it...and that is why they won. So you have to give them credit for that.

[DMAVS41]

You're the one who needs to stop with the nonsense. It doesn't matter whether the Mavs were better in 2003. Duncan was the MVP that year, and he was definitively better than Dirk.


There's no inconsistency. Different people have different opinions. My view has remained consistent; I can't control what other people say.


I have to laugh at your notion that the 2011 Mavs would beat any of those teams in a series.

So lets get this straight. Somehow a worse Mavs team in 06 beat the 06 Spurs. How did that happen?

Were the 03 or 06 Spurs better?

Were the 06 or 11 Mavs better?

Please man up and answer....

[tpols]

You're the one who needs to stop with the nonsense. It doesn't matter whether the Mavs were better in 2003. Duncan was the MVP that year, and he was definitively better than Dirk.


There's no inconsistency. Different people have different opinions. My view has remained consistent; I can't control what other people say.


I have to laugh at your notion that the 2011 Mavs would beat any of those teams in a series.
They would be 50/50 for both the Spurs and Heat dude.. They would have Tyson to put on Shaq instead of Dampier and their players in 11 were just better in general. That spurs team wasnt great either. 11 Mavs are in the conversation for worst team but so are a few other teams.

[Shepseskaf]

So lets get this straight. Somehow a worse Mavs team in 06 beat the 06 Spurs. How did that happen?

Were the 03 or 06 Spurs better?

Were the 06 or 11 Mavs better?

Please man up and answer....
You need to man up and face facts instead of coming up with a bunch of fantasy scenarios and wild speculations that fit your agenda.

The fact is that virtually no one would pick last year's Mavs team against the '03 Spurs championship team.

[DMAVS41]

You need to man up and face facts instead of coming up with a bunch of fantasy scenarios and wild speculations that fit your agenda.

The fact is that virtually no one would pick last year's Mavs team against the '03 Spurs championship team.

Why?

My agenda? I just responded to your claim.

I want to know how the 06 Mavs (a team clearly inferior to the 11 Mavs) beat the 06 Spurs (a team at worst even with the 03 Spurs) if its impossible for the 11 Mavs to beat the 03 Spurs in a hypothetical.

I could go on, but please just answer the questions:

06 mavs vs 11 mavs? which team is better?

03 spurs vs 06 spurs? which team is better?

Its not an agenda. Those are simple questions that need to be answered in order to go forward with the debate.

If you refuse to answer, you have no foundation whatsoever to make your claims.

So either answer or STFU....

[O_City_Thunder]

Can we all agree OP is a f.aggot?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Shepseskaf]

I want to know how the 06 Mavs (a team clearly inferior to the 11 Mavs) beat the 06 Spurs (a team at worst even with the 03 Spurs) if its impossible for the 11 Mavs to beat the 03 Spurs in a hypothetical.
I don't agree with your basic reasoning to begin with. You need to explain yourself, before posing additional scenarios and telling people to STFU if they don't answer your questions.

You use circular logic in an attempt to weight the argument to your agenda. That's why its useless to try and have an honest debate.

[KDTrey5]

call it what you want but that was the best playoff run i've seen in my life. i tip my hat off to dirk and the mavs

[DMAVS41]

I don't agree with your basic reasoning to begin with. You need to explain yourself, before posing additional scenarios and telling people to STFU if they don't answer your questions.

You use circular logic in an attempt to weight the argument to your agenda. That's why its useless to try and have an honest debate.

Explain what?

My assertion is that the 11 Mavs could have beat the 99 Spurs, 00 Lakers, 03 Spurs, and 06 Heat.

That doesn't mean they would have, but certainly not some case of "no chance" like you assert.

My evidence? The 06 Mavs beat the 06 Spurs. A spurs team that I consider better than the 03 Spurs. And I also consider the 11 Mavs better than the 06 Mavs....quite considerably actually.

So that LOGIC right there blows your assertion out of the water.

Please give me something better than that to defend your notion that the Mavs have little to no chance to beat teams like the 03 Spurs and 06 Heat.

I'll be waiting.

But you'll attack me and not my notions or assertions because you are already looking stupid...

[Shepseskaf]

Explain what?

My assertion is that the 11 Mavs could have beat the 99 Spurs, 00 Lakers, 03 Spurs, and 06 Heat.

That doesn't mean they would have, but certainly not some case of "no chance" like you assert.

My evidence? The 06 Mavs beat the 06 Spurs. A spurs team that I consider better than the 03 Spurs. And I also consider the 11 Mavs better than the 06 Mavs....quite considerably actually.

So that LOGIC right there blows your assertion out of the water.

Please give me something better than that to defend your notion that the Mavs have little to no chance to beat teams like the 03 Spurs and 06 Heat.

I'll be waiting.

But you'll attack me and not my notions or assertions because you are already looking stupid...
Anything "could" happen. Santa Claus "could" be seen one day flying his sleigh across the sky. Doesn't mean that rational people would anticipate that it would happen.

I do not believe that last year's Mavs would have been favored to win over the '03 Spurs, or any of the other teams you mentioned, by any knowledgeable fan. Simply put.

Stay on point and try not to focus on the fact that, aside from one year, your boy Dirk's legacy is being knocked out in humiliating fashion in the first round.

[DMAVS41]

Anything "could" happen. Santa Claus "could" be seen one day flying his sleigh across the sky. Doesn't mean that rational people would anticipate that it would happen.

I do not believe that last year's Mavs would have been favored to win over the '03 Spurs, or any of the other teams you mentioned, by any knowledgeable fan. Simply put.

Stay on point and try not to focus on the fact that, aside from one year, your boy Dirk's legacy is being knocked out in humiliating fashion in the first round.


That isn't the point at all. But if you want to talk about Dirk's legacy. I'll be happy to. He'll go down as one of the 15 or 20 best players of all time.

But that isn't what this thread is about. Its about you making a claim and not backing it up.

Now you are using "fans" to prove you right?

Again. How did the 03 Mavs compete so well against the 03 Spurs if they were so much worse? How did they beat them in 06? How did they come so close to beating the Heat in 06?

Answer me just one question.

Which Mavs team do you think is best:

11?
06?
03?

Please rank them.

That is all I ask. Answer one question.

[DonDadda59]

They beat, nay SWEPT the defending champions. Beat the tough, young Thunder squad, then shocked the world by taking out the Heat.

That's Kobe, Gasol/Bynum, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, etc that they had to get through to win their rings. That's no fluke, they just had a better team last year.

[EnoughSaid]

Well considering the fact that almost all of their players were making most of their shots and Dirk went into GOD mode, I'd say it was kind of a fluke, yes.

If LeBron plays normally, then the Heat win game 2 and most likely the rest of the series with ease.

[ODEN>DURANT]

Stupid thread. No Championship is a fluke. You can maybe fluke a series or 2, but that's about it. They were just better than everyone last season. Fact.

[oh the horror]

Im sorry but to me its disrespectful to call championships a "fluke" and mostly denial by fans of opposing teams. Key players from last years MAVS didnt return this year, and thats the end of that.

[DonDadda59]

Im sorry but to me its disrespectful to call championships a "fluke" and mostly denial by fans of opposing teams. Key players from last years MAVS didnt return this year, and thats the end of that.

Exactly. If it was single elimination, then MAYBE you can call it a fluke. But they had to win 4 games against each- the Thunder, Lakers (defending champs), and the Heat.

That's no 'fluke', anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

[Shepseskaf]

[/B]

That isn't the point at all. But if you want to talk about Dirk's legacy. I'll be happy to. He'll go down as one of the 15 or 20 best players of all time.

But that isn't what this thread is about. Its about you making a claim and not backing it up.

Now you are using "fans" to prove you right?

Again. How did the 03 Mavs compete so well against the 03 Spurs if they were so much worse? How did they beat them in 06? How did they come so close to beating the Heat in 06?

Answer me just one question.

Which Mavs team do you think is best:

11?
06?
03?

Please rank them.

That is all I ask. Answer one question.
This is your statement, which got our personal debate started:

Not only could the Mavs last year beat the 03 Spurs and 06 Heat, but they would be favored in that series.

I do NOT believe that last year's Mavs would be favored against this roster:

'03 Championship Spurs
Tim Duncan
Stephen Jackson
David Robinson
Tony Parker
Bruce Bowen

Reserves
Manu Ginobili
Speedy Claxton
Malik Rose
Steve Kerr
Danny Ferry
Steve Smith
Kevin Willis

The comparison with the '06 Heat might be closer, I'll admit, but I still don't think that the 2011 Mavs would be favored.

The reason I haven't answered your questions is that you tend to stray far from the original point, and the argument gets lost because of it. Compared the teams you talked about directly, and you'll see that you're wrong.

[embersyc]

Not really. Tyson Chandler was a great defensive presence. Imagine the championship Pistons team without Ben Wallace.

You don't have to imagine, just look at what happened in 07 when he left and Pistons lost to freaking Cavaliers.

[(e)]

Definitely not a fluke at all. There is no such thing as a fluke NBA Championship - all these guys are professionals, and all these guys work their asses off, plus you have to win 4 out of 7. That Mavs team had chemistry and was constructed very well. I really don't think you could of paired Dirk with a better center.

Dirk covered up Tyson's weak offensive game, and Tyson covered up Dirk's weak defensive game. They had a bunch of guys who could stroke 3's with Terry, Kidd, Stevenson, Peja, ect. Stevenson, Marion, and Tyson were all great defensive players.

They earned that Championship. This year was a completely different team without Tyson, Stevenson, and JJ Berea. Plus, let's be real, they slacked off a bunch at the start of the season, you could tell they didn't put in the same amount of work over that lockout offseason and were just living it up after their Championship run. Can't say I blame them, they made a hell of a run.

Plus, 3 of the 4 games against OKC came down to the final minute of the game. No way in hell would anyone sweep them if they still had Tyson and Stevenson.

[embersyc]

Also didn't Heat get swept in the first round in 07? Was their 06 Championship also a fluke then?

[LakersReign]

Come on. a fluke is something that never happens before, happens once, and then never happens again. aka Dallas's magical title run

You do realize that same thing appiles to Miami's '06 title....right?:facepalm

[longtime lurker]

Jesus if you actually watched them play last year and this year the difference is night and day. Just goes to show you that you shouldn't mess with a championship formula for the "hope" of maybe landing a big time free agent.

[DMAVS41]

This is your statement, which got our personal debate started:


I do NOT believe that last year's Mavs would be favored against this roster:

'03 Championship Spurs
Tim Duncan
Stephen Jackson
David Robinson
Tony Parker
Bruce Bowen

Reserves
Manu Ginobili
Speedy Claxton
Malik Rose
Steve Kerr
Danny Ferry
Steve Smith
Kevin Willis

The comparison with the '06 Heat might be closer, I'll admit, but I still don't think that the 2011 Mavs would be favored.

The reason I haven't answered your questions is that you tend to stray far from the original point, and the argument gets lost because of it. Compared the teams you talked about directly, and you'll see that you're wrong.

How is me asking about the 06 Mavs and 03 Mavs not relevant? Those teams played the two teams I mentioned.

You won't answer because you know your answer will destroy your assertion.

A roster run down? LOL...the 11 Mavs had easily more talent than the 03 Spurs. I hope you remember that Parker and Manu were not even close to elite yet.

So your point holds no water. We all know the 11 Mavs were better than both the 03 and 06 Mavs. Considering those two Mavs teams came so close to beating those other teams...logically it make sense to think that the 11 Mavs could beat them as well. Oh, and the 06 Mavs did beat a Spurs team.

Just look at your logic. No way could Dirk beat Duncan. That is what you said. Then how the **** did he beat him in 06?

The 11 Mavs are absolutely on paper one of the worst teams to win the title in NBA history. They also played much better than their paper resume would suggest. The notion that the 03 Spurs or 06 Heat are anything other than even or worse is simply non sense as I have proven.

You can have the last word if you like. Your refusal to answer simple questions illustrates how clearly I have won this debate.

[EricForman]

Come on. a fluke is something that never happens before, happens once, and then never happens again. aka Dallas's magical title run


You're completely wrong. They lost their starting center and defensive anchor--and reigning defensive player of the year--because of Cuban's business decision. I'm not sure if the Mavs would have repeated had they kept the same roster, but they wouldn't have gone out in the first round.

Anyway this is a dumb thread. Go home.

[Shepseskaf]

You can have the last word if you like. Your refusal to answer simple questions illustrates how clearly I have won this debate.
You have clearly lost this debate. Your tendency to bring up side scenarios, all to fit your own agenda, is why I don't answer the questions you pose, which are all based on accepting the aforementioned scenarios. You're attempting to stack the deck in your favor by framing the argument, but it won't work against me.

Again, I go back to your original statement, which started this debate:

Not only could the Mavs last year beat the 03 Spurs and 06 Heat, but they would be favored in that series.
I already addressed the "could" part of this. Anything "could" happen, but the second part is just flat out incorrect.

The 2011 Mavs, with the following roster:

Dirk Nowitzki
Jason Kidd
Shawn Marion
Tyson Chandler
Jose Barea

Reserves
Jason Terry
DeShawn Stevenson
Brian Cardinal
Ian Mahinmi

Would NOT be favored to win a series over this roster:

Tim Duncan
Stephen Jackson
David Robinson
Tony Parker
Bruce Bowen

Reserves
Manu Ginobili
Speedy Claxton
Malik Rose
Steve Kerr
Danny Ferry
Steve Smith
Kevin Willis

or this roster:

Dwyane Wade
Udonis Haslem
Antoine Walker
Jason Williams
Shaquille Oneal

Reserves
James Posey
Gary Payton
Alonzo Mourning
Shandon Anderson

I win the debate because your original statement is clearly wrong. Just admit it.

[97 bulls]

You have clearly lost this debate. Your tendency to bring up side scenarios, all to fit your own agenda, is why I don't answer the questions you pose, which are all based on accepting the aforementioned scenarios. You're attempting to stack the deck in your favor by framing the argument, but it won't work against me.

Again, I go back to your original statement, which started this debate:

I already addressed the "could" part of this. Anything "could" happen, but the second part is just flat out incorrect.

The 2011 Mavs, with the following roster:

Dirk Nowitzki
Jason Kidd
Shawn Marion
Tyson Chandler
Jose Barea

Reserves
Jason Terry
DeShawn Stevenson
Brian Cardinal
Ian Mahinmi

Would NOT be favored to win a series over this roster:

Tim Duncan
Stephen Jackson
David Robinson
Tony Parker
Bruce Bowen

Reserves
Manu Ginobili
Speedy Claxton
Malik Rose
Steve Kerr
Danny Ferry
Steve Smith
Kevin Willis

or this roster:

Dwyane Wade
Udonis Haslem
Antoine Walker
Jason Williams
Shaquille Oneal

Reserves
James Posey
Gary Payton
Alonzo Mourning
Shandon Anderson

I win the debate because your original statement is clearly wrong. Just admit it.
I think the 11 mavs match up very well with both the spurs of 03 and the 06 heat. Chandler wouldn't stop duncan, but he would make his presence known. And as dmavs stated, dirks has always held his own vs duncan. And since robinson was on his last leg, dirks defense wouldn't hurt the mavs. Bowen would be obsolete, marion is better than jackson, and the mavs have three guys in kidd, stevenson, and marion that can d-up ginobli and parker.


The mavs match up well with the heat as well. The mavs best defensders play the same position as the heats best scorers. And the mavs bench would be far superior to the heats.

[OmniStrife]

Not a fluke.
They had a terrific deep roster with great chemistry and a defensive anchor in the middle.
All led by a hungry superstar.

What more do you need, other than a good ol' **** down your throat, OP?

[305Baller]

no we can't all agree because I disagree

[DDensity]

Let's make this really simple. I would definitively state that if Dallas brought back the entire team and no one in the NBA made any moves in the offseason, they would never replicate that run.

The way Dirk was playing didn't surprise me at all, he's always been amazing. It was all the role players who suddenly caught fire and played well beyond their abilities and past. Peja hadn't shot the way he did in the 2011 playoffs since his Sacramento Kings days (6-6 from 3pt in G4 vs the Lakers). In that same game, Terry went 9-10 from 3pt.

I'm sure if you go back and look through the stats for games during the run, almost everyone on the team averaged above or well above their career numbers. This is why people are calling it "fluke". Of course there's no way to fluke your way to 16 wins. I'd call it more of a Cinderella team than a fluke. Peaking at the right time is completely different than what we saw. Peaking would be everyone playing at or close to their career numbers at the same time. What we saw was almost every role player on that team suddenly become unstoppable. It was unreal.

[comerb]

I still firmly believe Miami was the better team, and that they just beat themselves. Add to that Dallas' roleplayer/shooters just hit fire at the right time of year. I think Miami wins that series 2 out of 3 times.

I wouldn't call it a fluke though. I don't see any point in trying to devalue their title. They earned it and that's all the matters. You could call half the NFL and NCAA championships flukes by those standards. I certainly don't think that the Giant are a better team than the Packers, and yet they are the ones holding the trophy... doesn't mean they didn't earn it.

[L.A. Jazz]

They lost their defensive leader in Chandler and with Berea one of the only guys who could create for himself other than Dirk. AND you get nothing in return because LO ... and VC isnt that good anymore.

[Shepseskaf]

I think the 11 mavs match up very well with both the spurs of 03 and the 06 heat. Chandler wouldn't stop duncan, but he would make his presence known. And as dmavs stated, dirks has always held his own vs duncan. And since robinson was on his last leg, dirks defense wouldn't hurt the mavs. Bowen would be obsolete, marion is better than jackson, and the mavs have three guys in kidd, stevenson, and marion that can d-up ginobli and parker.


The mavs match up well with the heat as well. The mavs best defensders play the same position as the heats best scorers. And the mavs bench would be far superior to the heats.
Do people read English anymore? I emphasized that was said is that the 2011 Mavs would be favored over the '03 Spurs and '06 Heat. That's what I disagreed with, not whether a series between the teams would be competitive.

In answer to your "analysis", I think you're selling both the '03 Spurs and '06 Heat way short.

[stevieming]

I think that last year's Mavs played at their highest level at just the right time, and got some very lucky breaks.

In terms of measuring champions, I would call the 2011 Mavs the weakest team in the last 20 years. Anyone who disagrees, name one other championship squad that you think the Mavs could beat in a series.

To me, a true championship team is one that you can honestly say beat all opponents that were playing at, or near, their best. This simply can't be said of the Mavs, because if LBJ didn't have a brain fart that only he can explain, the Heat would be the 2011 champs.

No way, the Mavs of 2011 would have beaten the Heat of 2006. You think 2011 Dirk would have let that 13 point lead disappear.

The Mavs last year beat:
1. Tough portland team with B Roy playing at high level.
2. Defending Champs and swept them.
3. Outgunned the thunder, with the league leading scorer.
4. Beat Miami Big three....

LBJ didn't play his best, because the Mavs didn't let him play his best. Marion punked him out, and JT stepped to the challenge of LBJ's defense. Dude was shook.

[Shepseskaf]

The Mavs last year beat:
1. Tough portland team with B Roy playing at high level.
2. Defending Champs and swept them.
3. Outgunned the thunder, with the league leading scorer.
4. Beat Miami Big three....
1. BRoy was playing with no cartilage in his knees. Let's not pretend that he was healthy. He could play well in spurts, but that's all.
2. The Lakers were in disarray. It was obvious to see that team disunity and age had caught up with them.
3. The Thunder were inexperienced, despite their obvious talent. They were rattled, and didn't have the mental toughness to withstand the Mavs scoring surges.
4. If LBJ plays even on an average level, for him, the Heat would win the series handily. The Mavs did play him well, but without his "help" by failing to be aggressive, there would likely have been a different champion last year.

And you can't make random statements like, "You think 2011 Dirk would have let that 13 point lead disappear." What if increased resolve on Dirk's part would have also called DWade to up the ante?

The Mavs had an amazing run last year, but they caught a lot of teams at a bad point. To their credit they capitalized on it.

[iDunk]

Winning a championship is never a fluke considering the 7 game series that they gotta get past.

Now this seasons champion can be considered a fluke because of the shortened season & all of the injuries.

[Shepseskaf]

Winning a championship is never a fluke considering the 7 game series that they gotta get past.

Now this seasons champion can be considered a fluke because of the shortened season & all of the injuries.
I think that the reason the word "fluke" comes up is because of the widespread suspicion that the Mavs would never be able to duplicate their title run. This is much more the case than with any recent champion that I can remember.

Dirk is obviously an all-time great, but role players like Barea and Stevenson stepped up in ways that they would be hard pressed to do in any other year.

Its telling that Vegas had the Mavs as a long-shot to win the 2012 championship -- right after they won last year. That was before Cuban let key pieces go. The "wise guys" knew that it was very unlikely that they would repeat -- therefore, talk about a "fluke" championship.

Conversely, if Miami wins a 'chip this year, there isn't a person on the planet who won't think that they can do it again, and again. The caliber of players that they have preclude such speculation.

That's why, even in a shortened season, and with all of the key injuries this year, a Heat win will not be viewed as a fluke.

[SCdac]

The Mavs last year beat:
1. Tough portland team with B Roy playing at high level.
2. Defending Champs and swept them.
3. Outgunned the thunder, with the league leading scorer.
4. Beat Miami Big three....

:oldlol:

Talk about twisting the truth.

Brandon Roy outside of one magnificent, glimpse-of-the-past, game ... was the opposite of "playing at a high level"... He retired as a ball player not long after this series.

Roys numbers vs. Mavs:

Game 1: 2 points (14%), 26 minutes
Game 2: 0 points (0%), 8 minutes
Game 3: 16 points (60%), 24 minutes
Game 4: 24 points (69%), 24 minutes
Game 5: 5 points (29%), 26 minutes
Game 6: 9 points (66%), 29 minutes

It's worth note that one of their franchise players (Greg Oden) wasn't playing too.

Not that any of that takes away from the achievement of winning a championship. I thought the Mavs played as hard as any champions.

Just caught all the teams, and their own team, at the right time.

But B-Roy was hardly himself against the Mavs.

[It's A VC3!!!]

This is the last time I ever read any of your threads. You are downright stupid. A fluke is one game. Not one series. Not two series. Not three series. And not the Finals. That's what the Mavericks had to overcomes to win a championship. How can winning all of that be a fluke. ****ing moron who is mad that Dallas beat your team.

[pauk]

Last year they had they had Tyson Chandler (DPOY)
Jason Terry was playing like a superstar when it mattered......
Jason Kidd was nailing any open 3pt shot it seemed like....
JJ barea i think was amazing carving up Lakers/Heat defense aswell...
and most importantly, Dirk Nowitzki, he was playing out of his ***ing mind..... which he wasnt able to do this playoffs

[Doranku]

I don't think people realize how good this Thunder team is.

[JMT]

Only if you're a moron.

[Nero Tulip]

I don't think people realize how good this Thunder team is.

Watching the series honestly it wasn't very good basketball... the Mavs played like crap, they were much much better last year.

[ihoopallday]

No way last year was a fluke. Yes, it hurt seeing them win, but you could just tell how bad they wanted it. I'm always going to give Dallas credit even though I'm a Heat fan. They showed heart, and that's an aspect every championship team needs.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Since 1980... a span of 31 years... there have been 12 different teams win an NBA Championship.

The Mavs are 1 of those teams. Call it what you want. And unless OKC or the Grizz win it there will still be only 12 teams that have won an NBA championship since 1980.

[Teanett]

Not really. Tyson Chandler was a great defensive presence. Imagine the championship Pistons team without Ben Wallace.
they didnt even win another ring with him.
was their championship a fluke as well?

[Extempo]

Dallas would probably lose to the Lakers in the second round if Kobe wasn't playing at 10% with a bad knee and ankle...and if Gasol hadn't checked out mentally.

But they did beat down Miami...even with all 3 of those clowns healthy and in their prime. For that alone, Dirk and co. get my respect.

[SilkyJohnson]

Just because Dallas didn't win a Championship before last season doesn't mean their accomplishment was a fluke. Did my eyes deceive me or did Dallas dominate Miami in almost every category, not to mention every team they faced on their way to the finals?

[SpecialQue]

Can we all agree OP is a f.aggot?

:pimp:

[SCdac]

Dallas would probably lose to the Lakers in the second round if Kobe wasn't playing at 10% with a bad knee and ankle...and if Gasol hadn't checked out mentally.

But they did beat down Miami...even with all 3 of those clowns healthy and in their prime. For that alone, Dirk and co. get my respect.

I think Gasol was a big part of their loss...

Going into the Mavs-Lakers series, Pau was averaging:

13.5 ppg (41.8 FG%) / 6.8 rpg

That Lakers team looked kind of 'out of it' through out the season and there was some locker room/chemistry problems.

[Bandito]

I think Gasol was a big part of their loss...

Going into the Mavs-Lakers series, Pau was averaging:

13.5 ppg (41.8 FG%) / 6.8 rpg

That Lakers team looked kind of 'out of it' through out the season and there was some locker room/chemistry problems.
I call that the odom effect:pimp:

[Extempo]

I think Gasol was a big part of their loss...

Going into the Mavs-Lakers series, Pau was averaging:

13.5 ppg (41.8 FG%) / 6.8 rpg

That Lakers team looked kind of 'out of it' through out the season and there was some locker room/chemistry problems.
This is true. Gasol's playoff performance really hurt, I've never seen Phil get so angry at a player...Lakers even tried to trade him after that horror show. So our best player was severely injured and our second best player had checked out, a sweep was inevitable.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

was NOT a fluke.
you don't win 16 playoff games in dominating style by FLUKE.
Give Dirk, Terry, Kidd, etc etc their due props.
They crushed opponents, incl my Lakers with ease.

If they kept the team intact, how would they have performed this year? I suggest that they would NOT have been swept by OKC and may have beaten them. They would have been better both offensively and defensively.

[imdaman99]

last years mavs versus this years okc would have been a helluva series :bowdown:

mavs would have still prob won, but it could have been 7 games.

[LWBMIA]

was NOT a fluke.
you don't win 16 playoff games in dominating style by FLUKE.
Give Dirk, Terry, Kidd, etc etc their due props.
They crushed opponents, incl my Lakers with ease.

If they kept the team intact, how would they have performed this year? I suggest that they would NOT have been swept by OKC and may have beaten them. They would have been better both offensively and defensively.

Every Heat/Mavs game was extremely close in the last minutes except game 6.It was a very competitive series.Heat had a 15 point lead in game 2 and then lost by 2 and lost game 4 by 3.

They beat OKC in 5 but that series had close games too.

[Mr. Jabbar]

You dont disrespect what mavs did last year by ANY means :no:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Every Heat/Mavs game was extremely close in the last minutes except game 6.It was a very competitive series.Heat had a 15 point lead in game 2 and then lost by 2 and lost game 4 by 3.

They beat OKC in 5 but that series had close games too.
I was not suggesting that they swept every team.
But they DID handle the Heat. That series never seemed in question.

[kentatm]

So you're saying Chandler/Stevenson/Barea can make the difference from a 1st round sweep exit to a championship team? :facepalm

how stupid are you? not even nba superstars can have that affect


the only stupid one is the person that tries to simplify things to such a mind numbing degree.

its not just that they lost some guys

its that the biggest piece they got to replace them in Odom completely shit the bed and essentially ended their season when he decided his life was just too hard to show up and be a professional. Not only did he screw them by not caring to try, they jettisoned needed depth in Rudy Fernandez and Corey Brewer due to the belief that he would be good enough playing multiple positions they wouldn't get much PT.

its the season being a strike shortened one that favored younger teams who kept most of their main components together (OKC, Miami, Chicago) over older teams and squads that had major lineup changes.

its the idiotic 66 game schedule the owners put out for lust of money which caused injury issues to the point that the Mavs were only fully healthy for about 15 games. Couple that with basically no practice and you get a disjointed team.

Its their best offensive penetrating guard Delonte West breaking a finger and having his ability to drive greatly diminished because of it.


it goes on but I'm hoping people get the point.

[ShaqAttack3234]

One thing I respect about the '11 Mavs is the competition. They beat the 2-time defending champs who still had Kobe, who had declined, but was still arguably a top 5 player, Pau Gasol who was one of the top big men and on the all-nba second team, Lamar Odom who was the 6th man of the year and coming off arguably his best and most consistent season, and Andrew Bynum who was healthy for once in the playoffs and making a big impact in the 2nd half as primarily a defensive player/rebounder.

OKC also had a superstar and arguably a top 5 player, as well as a borderline superstar alongside him, and talented young players like Harden(who was breaking out in those playoffs), and Ibaka.

And Miami is one of the 2 teams I can think of who you could argue had the 2 best players in the league, plus a 7-time all-star as their 3rd option, who had found out how to fit in late in the second and during the playoffs.


And the 11 Mavs were light years better than both of the 03 and 06 Mavs.

I don't know about light years better than those Mavs teams. Going into the '11 playoffs I wasn't even thinking of Dallas winning a title, but I thought of them as a top contender in '06. They clearly looked like the second best team in the West by far in '06 behind the Spurs, and they were favored going into the NBA Finals. The '06 Mavs had more scoring options and less questions as far as where they'd go after Dirk and Terry for scoring. Though the '11 Mavs had a better coach, a big improvement at center and were better defensively.

Some were predicting they'd lose in the 1st round last year, I didn't, but I thought they'd lose to the Lakers until they went up 2-0.

The '03 Mavs are tougher to evaluate, both of us agree that they were legitimate contenders, and they did have all-star caliber players like Nash and Finley around Dirk as well as Van Exel off the bench who was explosive during that playoff run averaging almost 20 ppg. Center position was the weakest of the 3 teams, though with LaFrentz and Bradley.



There is no way in hell that the 2011 Mavs would be favored over the 2003 Spurs. A prime Duncan would have put Dirk on lockdown

They probably wouldn't have guarded each other much, they didn't match up much in the '03 series, or especially the '06 series. Bowen guarded Dirk a lot, iirc.

It'd probably be a good series, the '03 Spurs were kind of like the '11 Mavs in that they relied on different players in their supporting cast to step up each night. Tim was obviously a better player than Dirk, but the '11 Mavs did face better competition than the '03 Spurs, and every team the Spurs faced took them to 6, so I don't see it being an easy series.

I'd have to call the Spurs the favorites because the Mavs after Butler's injury were one of the most surprising championship teams to me. The '03 Spurs weren't as surprising, they were clearly one of the contenders, though the Kings and Lakers were the 2 favorites.


The '00 Lakers would have crashed the Mavs.

The Lakers didn't crush the '00 Pacers. The Blazers were one unbelievable 15 point 4th quarter choke job away from beating them(though the '00 Blazers were loaded), and the the Kings even took them to the maximum 5 games in the 1st round. That Laker team had trouble putting teams away, and some clear flaws that could be exploited.

I doubt they'd crush Dallas, though I would favor the '00 Lakers over the '11 Mavs.


So our best player was severely injured and our second best player had checked out, a sweep was inevitable.

Severely injured is a big exaggeration, imo. Kobe started the year recovering from a knee surgery, but he played all 82 games, and wasn't much different from this season.

[DMAVS41]

the only stupid one is the person that tries to simplify things to such a mind numbing degree.

its not just that they lost some guys

its that the biggest piece they got to replace them in Odom completely shit the bed and essentially ended their season when he decided his life was just too hard to show up and be a professional. Not only did he screw them by not caring to try, they jettisoned needed depth in Rudy Fernandez and Corey Brewer due to the belief that he would be good enough playing multiple positions they wouldn't get much PT.

its the season being a strike shortened one that favored younger teams who kept most of their main components together (OKC, Miami, Chicago) over older teams and squads that had major lineup changes.

its the idiotic 66 game schedule the owners put out for lust of money which caused injury issues to the point that the Mavs were only fully healthy for about 15 games. Couple that with basically no practice and you get a disjointed team.

Its their best offensive penetrating guard Delonte West breaking a finger and having his ability to drive greatly diminished because of it.


it goes on but I'm hoping people get the point.

They won't get it.

They act like Cuban envisioned the team out there in this series at the beginning of the year.

Haywood is hurt. Or at least he better be....because he was just terrible. West wasn't himself. No chemistry due to injuries, new players, no practice...etc.

And of course. The biggest factor of all. Odom. Not only was he not good, but he was awful. A true non factor. he didn't ****ing play in the playoffs.

If Odom was out there and contributing on a healthy Mavs team.....they would have had close to or just as good of a chance to make another improbable run at the title.

But that didn't happen....and we are left with a team that came close to making it a long series, but ultimately was missing that "1 more guy"...who was supposed to be Odom mind you.

And I guess people don't understand the price tag that Barea and Chandler demanded.

[DMAVS41]

I think Gasol was a big part of their loss...

Going into the Mavs-Lakers series, Pau was averaging:

13.5 ppg (41.8 FG%) / 6.8 rpg

That Lakers team looked kind of 'out of it' through out the season and there was some locker room/chemistry problems.

How can you make posts like this trying to diminish the Mavs title last year and then turn around and call them the favorites this year if they had kept Chandler.

Its such a logic fail. You don't seem like an idiot, but those two assertions just don't go together.

You have repeatedly called the Mavs the weakest champion since 98. Which I would assume means you'd gladly go back around 30 years. So you call them one of the weakest champions ever. You say the competition they played wasn't good. You bring up stuff like the above.

Then you say the mavs would have been favored to win it again. How? Why?

Makes absolutely no sense at all.

[Millennium X]

Dallas destroyed the pathetic OKC team. Not a fluke at all, hell OKC and Durant prolly woulda gotten sh*t on against that same Dallas team of last year.

[DMAVS41]

One thing I respect about the '11 Mavs is the competition. They beat the 2-time defending champs who still had Kobe, who had declined, but was still arguably a top 5 player, Pau Gasol who was one of the top big men and on the all-nba second team, Lamar Odom who was the 6th man of the year and coming off arguably his best and most consistent season, and Andrew Bynum who was healthy for once in the playoffs and making a big impact in the 2nd half as primarily a defensive player/rebounder.

OKC also had a superstar and arguably a top 5 player, as well as a borderline superstar alongside him, and talented young players like Harden(who was breaking out in those playoffs), and Ibaka.

And Miami is one of the 2 teams I can think of who you could argue had the 2 best players in the league, plus a 7-time all-star as their 3rd option, who had found out how to fit in late in the second and during the playoffs.



I don't know about light years better than those Mavs teams. Going into the '11 playoffs I wasn't even thinking of Dallas winning a title, but I thought of them as a top contender in '06. They clearly looked like the second best team in the West by far in '06 behind the Spurs, and they were favored going into the NBA Finals. The '06 Mavs had more scoring options and less questions as far as where they'd go after Dirk and Terry for scoring. Though the '11 Mavs had a better coach, a big improvement at center and were better defensively.

Some were predicting they'd lose in the 1st round last year, I didn't, but I thought they'd lose to the Lakers until they went up 2-0.

The '03 Mavs are tougher to evaluate, both of us agree that they were legitimate contenders, and they did have all-star caliber players like Nash and Finley around Dirk as well as Van Exel off the bench who was explosive during that playoff run averaging almost 20 ppg. Center position was the weakest of the 3 teams, though with LaFrentz and Bradley.



They probably wouldn't have guarded each other much, they didn't match up much in the '03 series, or especially the '06 series. Bowen guarded Dirk a lot, iirc.

It'd probably be a good series, the '03 Spurs were kind of like the '11 Mavs in that they relied on different players in their supporting cast to step up each night. Tim was obviously a better player than Dirk, but the '11 Mavs did face better competition than the '03 Spurs, and every team the Spurs faced took them to 6, so I don't see it being an easy series.

I'd have to call the Spurs the favorites because the Mavs after Butler's injury were one of the most surprising championship teams to me. The '03 Spurs weren't as surprising, they were clearly one of the contenders, though the Kings and Lakers were the 2 favorites.



The Lakers didn't crush the '00 Pacers. The Blazers were one unbelievable 15 point 4th quarter choke job away from beating them(though the '00 Blazers were loaded), and the the Kings even took them to the maximum 5 games in the 1st round. That Laker team had trouble putting teams away, and some clear flaws that could be exploited.

I doubt they'd crush Dallas, though I would favor the '00 Lakers over the '11 Mavs.



Severely injured is a big exaggeration, imo. Kobe started the year recovering from a knee surgery, but he played all 82 games, and wasn't much different from this season.

Good post.

Let me explain. Light years in terms of what they did in the playoffs. Not on paper. If we are going to discuss this hypothetical. You have to go off what the teams actually did.

I'd bet my life the the 11 Mavs beat the 06 Heat given how the 11 Mavs played throughout the playoffs and the finals.

And I don't know why we would go off paper resume when we actually saw all these teams perform in the playoffs. We saw Dirk come through in every close game. We saw Terry make huge plays when it mattered most. We saw Marion slow down Kobe, Durant, and Lebron. We saw Chandler play great. We saw Kidd and Barea make huge shots. Everyone on Mavs played better last year than their paper resume. That has to be factored in.

We don't need to talk about "before the playoffs"...because we saw them actually perform in the playoffs.

And yes. The competition was great last year....

I don't really care to debate it because it doesn't matter much, but I do think the 11 Mavs would have beaten the 03 Spurs. At the very least its a toss up series.....which destroys the notion that the Mavs would have no chance to beat any championship team of the last 30 years or whatever that clown was saying.

[Jotaro Durant]

Dallas destroyed the pathetic OKC team. Not a fluke at all, hell OKC and Durant prolly woulda gotten sh*t on against that same Dallas team of last year.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/577654_2934640096694_1581833219_31954174_105878437 6_n.jpg

[step_back]

They played great basketball in the post season and beat a healthy Heat team fair and square. Nothing about that was a fluke. The only reason why people are suggesting it is because they got bounced in the 1st round. The Mavs also lost some keys players one of which has just been named DPOY.

Seriously, people on here need to do less typing and spend more time watching the ****ing games.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Good post.

Let me explain. Light years in terms of what they did in the playoffs. Not on paper. If we are going to discuss this hypothetical. You have to go off what the teams actually did.

I'd bet my life the the 11 Mavs beat the 06 Heat given how the 11 Mavs played throughout the playoffs and the finals.

And I don't know why we would go off paper resume when we actually saw all these teams perform in the playoffs. We saw Dirk come through in every close game. We saw Terry make huge plays when it mattered most. We saw Marion slow down Kobe, Durant, and Lebron. We saw Chandler play great. We saw Kidd and Barea make huge shots. Everyone on Mavs played better last year than their paper resume. That has to be factored in.

We don't need to talk about "before the playoffs"...because we saw them actually perform in the playoffs.

And yes. The competition was great last year....

I don't really care to debate it because it doesn't matter much, but I do think the 11 Mavs would have beaten the 03 Spurs. At the very least its a toss up series.....which destroys the notion that the Mavs would have no chance to beat any championship team of the last 30 years or whatever that clown was saying.

Ok, I get what you're saying. The flaw with the '06 Mavs would be blowing the '06 finals, which showed a lack of mental toughness, something which was the opposite of what the '11 Mavs showed by destroying the Lakers when they had a chance to close them out, coming back from several 4th quarter deficits, most notably game 2 vs Miami which was 15, iirc, and traits like that you could say are a big part of what separate the best teams from the most talented teams.

Dirk did say he learned from the '06 finals and always kept in mind after that loss that the game wasn't over until the buzzer. And after seeing what Avery did in the Golden State the following season, it raised huge questions about his ability to coach, prior to that I had thought he did an excellent job in Dallas helping to develop a great team, but panicking like he did in the '07 series makes me have a lot less confidence in him than Carlisle, who I thought did a fantastic job last season and for most of his coaching career.

It's pretty crazy when you think about it, to have a historically great regular season and then alter your own lineup to try to match up with a team that had gone 42-40. Though that record is deceptive because Baron and J-Rich missed a lot of games, and they didn't have much time with the post-trade lineup due to those injuries, and they finished the season 16-5 after Baron returned. I will never know what he was thinking, when you play a certain way, and dominate the league playing that way, you don't change that on the fly to try to match up with an 8th seed. That's the one way Nelson could occasionally upset a team with his unorthodox style, when he baits a superior team into trying to beat his team at their own game. There were other factors, but that was the big one, imo.

I can't argue with you giving the '11 Mavs the edge for that. The only reason I hesitated is that I don't think the Mavs will likely blow a series like they did in '06 if it's replayed, and they had already beaten a phenomenal Spurs team, and they had come through in the clutch to win that series. That Spurs team was in the middle of 2 Spurs championship teams and the best stretch in Spurs history, they had also set the franchise record for wins, and had a roster as talented as any in Spurs history with Duncan and the other 2 members of the big 3 having matured into all-stars, plus, that was still one of the dominant Spurs defenses(best in the league), and they had added more scoring/shooting threats in Finley and Barry, as well as still having Bowen as arguably the premier perimeter defender. Not to mention that they survived what Duncan called the best series of his career.

Despite what happened in the finals, I still consider that a great team, and Dirk was definitely a top 5 player by that point. But even though losing a series like that is rare, I have to acknowledge it happened, and consider that when evaluating the team. At the very least what I'll draw from that is that the '06 Mavs were more vulnerable so things like that happening.

A healthy '03 Mavs in a hypothetical is still somewhat of a question mark, I don't consider Dirk quite as mature or well-rounded as the '06-'11 version, but he was as explosive of a scorer as he'd ever become, already a minimum top 7 player in a season when the top-end talent was off the charts, and he was showing the ability to raise his game in the playoffs. He had quite a few great games that year, many of which have largely been forgotten(such as game 1 of the WCF which you mentioned).

By the way, none of the rest of this was to dispute your statement, just discussing these Mavs teams more or less.

One thing the '03 Spurs had that the '11 Mavs also had was that ability in the clutch and mental toughness. They showed it throughout that run because they were consistently challenged, but always hit the timely shots they needed. There's no doubt that the '11 Mavs faced much better competition, but I'll always give the Spurs credit for ending the Lakers 3peat despite the team being weaker.

[LakersReign]

They played great basketball in the post season and beat a healthy Heat team fair and square. Nothing about that was a fluke. The only reason why people are suggesting it is because they got bounced in the 1st round. The Mavs also lost some keys players one of which has just been named DPOY.

Seriously, people on here need to do less typing and spend more time watching the ****ing games.

Good luck with that:rolleyes:

Most of the people on here saying that are butthurt Lebron fans pretending to be Heat fans. They're still mad cuz they were already popping champagne bottles celebrating the imminent Heat dynasty. But the Mavs had other ideas and whooped that a** instead. They know nothing about basketball and seem to think that checking boxscores instead of watching games, qualifies them to know more about basketball than anybody else on the planet. The reality if it is it doesn't and they just end up making themselves look stupid.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

its that the biggest piece they got to replace them in Odom completely shit the bed and essentially ended their season when he decided his life was just too hard to show up and be a professional. Not only did he screw them by not caring to try, they jettisoned needed depth in Rudy Fernandez and Corey Brewer due to the belief that he would be good enough playing multiple positions they wouldn't get much PT.
Odom was never a part of the great Cuban plan.
No one knew he was going to become available by the trade deadline.
Thus, he was not brought in to replace... he was a piece that become available mid-season.

[SCdac]

Shaqattack, you're forgetting that in 2006, Pop fatally altered his season-long lineup (much like Avery altered his in '07) to match up with Mavericks and it back fired horribly. Rasho and Nazr didn't even play in that series (the bigs who contributed to great defense), the Spurs went small (putting Finley at PF at times), and it backfired. Point being, they were playing excellent defense in the regular season, but for reasons that didn't show up in the playoffs (or the Mavs series at least). The Spurs still battled back from being down 3-1, it went to overtime of Game 7 (ie. as close as it gets), and if it wasn't for Ginobili's ridiculous foul on Dirk the Spurs very realistically would have won that series.

[DMAVS41]

Ok, I get what you're saying. The flaw with the '06 Mavs would be blowing the '06 finals, which showed a lack of mental toughness, something which was the opposite of what the '11 Mavs showed by destroying the Lakers when they had a chance to close them out, coming back from several 4th quarter deficits, most notably game 2 vs Miami which was 15, iirc, and traits like that you could say are a big part of what separate the best teams from the most talented teams.

Dirk did say he learned from the '06 finals and always kept in mind after that loss that the game wasn't over until the buzzer. And after seeing what Avery did in the Golden State the following season, it raised huge questions about his ability to coach, prior to that I had thought he did an excellent job in Dallas helping to develop a great team, but panicking like he did in the '07 series makes me have a lot less confidence in him than Carlisle, who I thought did a fantastic job last season and for most of his coaching career.

It's pretty crazy when you think about it, to have a historically great regular season and then alter your own lineup to try to match up with a team that had gone 42-40. Though that record is deceptive because Baron and J-Rich missed a lot of games, and they didn't have much time with the post-trade lineup due to those injuries, and they finished the season 16-5 after Baron returned. I will never know what he was thinking, when you play a certain way, and dominate the league playing that way, you don't change that on the fly to try to match up with an 8th seed. That's the one way Nelson could occasionally upset a team with his unorthodox style, when he baits a superior team into trying to beat his team at their own game. There were other factors, but that was the big one, imo.

I can't argue with you giving the '11 Mavs the edge for that. The only reason I hesitated is that I don't think the Mavs will likely blow a series like they did in '06 if it's replayed, and they had already beaten a phenomenal Spurs team, and they had come through in the clutch to win that series. That Spurs team was in the middle of 2 Spurs championship teams and the best stretch in Spurs history, they had also set the franchise record for wins, and had a roster as talented as any in Spurs history with Duncan and the other 2 members of the big 3 having matured into all-stars, plus, that was still one of the dominant Spurs defenses(best in the league), and they had added more scoring/shooting threats in Finley and Barry, as well as still having Bowen as arguably the premier perimeter defender. Not to mention that they survived what Duncan called the best series of his career.

Despite what happened in the finals, I still consider that a great team, and Dirk was definitely a top 5 player by that point. But even though losing a series like that is rare, I have to acknowledge it happened, and consider that when evaluating the team. At the very least what I'll draw from that is that the '06 Mavs were more vulnerable so things like that happening.

A healthy '03 Mavs in a hypothetical is still somewhat of a question mark, I don't consider Dirk quite as mature or well-rounded as the '06-'11 version, but he was as explosive of a scorer as he'd ever become, already a minimum top 7 player in a season when the top-end talent was off the charts, and he was showing the ability to raise his game in the playoffs. He had quite a few great games that year, many of which have largely been forgotten(such as game 1 of the WCF which you mentioned).

By the way, none of the rest of this was to dispute your statement, just discussing these Mavs teams more or less.

One thing the '03 Spurs had that the '11 Mavs also had was that ability in the clutch and mental toughness. They showed it throughout that run because they were consistently challenged, but always hit the timely shots they needed. There's no doubt that the '11 Mavs faced much better competition, but I'll always give the Spurs credit for ending the Lakers 3peat despite the team being weaker.

Yep. Pretty much exactly how I feel.

I like the 11 Mavs more because of their experience and ability to defensively play at a different level than in 03 and 06. I definitely think the 06 and 11 Mavs are on a higher level than 03. Not that the 03 team wasn't good, but I just don't see that 03 team beating the Heat...

And yes...Avery was a huge problem. He has the right basketball philosophy, but his in game coaching and in series coaching is awful. Put Rick Carlisle on the sidelines for 06 and I feel confident that the Mavs beat the Heat. What Avery did in the Warriors series has to be among the dumbest coaching moves in NBA history. I will never comprehend it either.

My main point was that while the 11 Mavs were hardly anything special on paper, they played amazingly well in the playoffs. And there is absolutely no proof or evidence that they couldn't beat a handful of past champions like the ones I named.

[DMAVS41]

Odom was never a part of the great Cuban plan.
No one knew he was going to become available by the trade deadline.
Thus, he was not brought in to replace... he was a piece that become available mid-season.

It doesn't have to be Odom. The plan all along was to use the trade exception on someone.

It would have been better of course to use it on someone else, but adding one other guy was absolutely always part of the plan.

[Odinn]

I guess the correct word is "unexpected". There was no team playing better than Dallas in 2011 playoffs.

They didn't win by refs help.
They didn't win coz of weak opponents.
They didn't have "what if"s off the court.

[DMAVS41]

I guess the correct word is "unexpected". There was no team playing better than Dallas in 2011 playoffs.

They didn't win by refs help.
They didn't win coz of weak opponents.
They didn't have "what if"s off the court.

That is a good way to define it. Well said.

[SpecialQue]

Can we all agree OP is a f.aggot?

:confusedshrug: