if LBJ wins more championships than Kobe, does he surpass Kobe all-time?

[swi7ch]

I'd like to preferably hear from non-Kobe lovers because we all know what their answer is going to be. :kobe:

Few quick reasons:

1) He already has more MVPs than Kobe.
2) If LBJ wins 6+ titles, of course he's going to get at least a couple FMVPs as well.
3) He took an inferior team all the way to the Finals and were top seeded routinely in the East and repeatedly took them deep in the playoffs as well. On the other hand, all Kobe could do without Shaq or the Twin Towers is carry his team up the first round only or not even make the playoffs at all.
4) etc.

[GreenChampion]

I'd like to preferably hear from non-Kobe lovers because we all know what their answer is going to be. :kobe:

Few quick reasons:

1) He already has more MVPs than Kobe.
2) If LBJ wins 6+ titles, of course he's going to get at least a couple FMVPs as well.
3) He took an inferior team all the way to the Finals and were top seeded routinely in the East and repeatedly took them deep in the playoffs as well. On the other hand, all Kobe could do without Shaq or the Twin Towers is carry his team up the first round only or not even make the playoffs at all.
4) etc.

Why are you making this thread when he doesn't even have one yet?

[Tmuston Beltics]

Why are you making this thread when he doesn't even have one yet?


To create even more hate :applause:

[Lebron23]

He just needs to win 2 Finals MVP. He will surpass Kobe in the all time lists because Kobe in his first 2 NBA Finals Appearance put up miserable stats in the NBA Finals.

[CardiacKemba]

He just needs to win 2 Finals MVP. He will surpass Kobe in the all time lists because Kobe in his first 2 NBA Finals Appearance put up miserable stats in the NBA Finals.

His stats were far from miserable. Kobe + Shaq probably the greatest 1-2 hit int he league. Ever.

But yes, if LeBron won the same or more championships as Kobe he would move ahead of him (because it will take incredible play and longevity to get there).

[Lebron23]

3 Finals MVP

LeBron needs to average 26 or more PPG on 45 FG% in the Finals. He will surpass Kobe before he turns 30.

Kobe averaged 25 ppg on 40 or 41 FG% in his NBA Finals Career. Just check his numbers.

[Lebron23]

Can someone please posts LeBron stats againts the Spurs. Lakers and Thunder in the RS? Last year LBJ struggled againts Dallas in the Regular Season.

[BigTicket]

This thread seems rather pointless.

Why are we speculating on what would happen if he wins 6+ rings, when he doesn't have the first one yet ?

[Rysio]

3 Finals MVP

LeBron needs to average 26 or more PPG on 45 FG% in the Finals. He will surpass Kobe before he turns 30.

Kobe averaged 25 ppg on 40 or 41 FG% in his NBA Finals Career. Just check his numbers.
lebrick has played 10 finals games already and scored less than 26 each game. how in the world is he going to average 26ppg?

[Lebron23]

lebrick has played 10 finals games already and scored less than 26 each game. how in the world is he going to average 26ppg?


LeBron is 7 years younger than Kobe. Kobe won his first Finals MVP when he was 31 yrs.old.

[Eric Cartman]

This thread seems rather pointless.

Why are we speculating on what would happen if he wins 6+ rings, when he doesn't have the first one yet ?

Because hypothetically Lebron is the greatest champion the league has ever seen with his +10 titles and Nutella filled 60 foot hot tub filled with supermodels/pornstars.

[Lebron23]

lebrick has played 10 finals games already and scored less than 26 each game. how in the world is he going to average 26ppg?


Why are you still using this account? Let's have a 1 year IP Ban Bet. LBJ will win his first NBA Finals MVP this year.

[arifgokcen]

This is pointless thread let him get one then talk to him.He is still unproven

[blablabla]

Why are you still using this account? Let's have a 1 year IP Ban Bet. LBJ will win his first NBA Finals MVP this year.
just like in 2007,2008,2009,2010 and 2011....
it ain't gonna happen

[Lebron23]

just like in 2007,2008,2009,2010 and 2011....
it ain't gonna happen


1 year IP Ban Bet.


Deal or No Deal

[I.R.Beast]

He just needs to win 2 Finals MVP. He will surpass Kobe in the all time lists because Kobe in his first 2 NBA Finals Appearance put up miserable stats in the NBA Finals.

LOL....James was horrible in both finas...worse than Kobe even

[coin24]

There is no set amount of FMVPs, titles etc that make you a great.:facepalm
Lebron stans seriously:oldlol: And 6 titles? No chance...


When Lebron actually shows up in the finals then you can talk about him in terms of accomplishments.. Comparing him to Kobe? Please....
You talk about Kobes first 2 finals appearances? Holy shit, Lebron has been probably the worst "superstar" in the finals so far.

Lebron isnt even respected by most of his peers, he is the joke of the league basically.. Yeah hes playing well right now, against shit teams in the now joke of an eastern conference. The Heat should basically sweep there way to the finals, then lets see what Bronzey can do..



Lebron23, if Lebron lays an egg again in the finals this year, will you change your opinion on him???:confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

There is no set amount of FMVPs, titles etc that make you a great.:facepalm
Lebron stans seriously:oldlol: And 6 titles? No chance...


When Lebron actually shows up in the finals then you can talk about him in terms of accomplishments.. Comparing him to Kobe? Please....
You talk about Kobes first 2 finals appearances? Holy shit, Lebron has been probably the worst "superstar" in the finals so far.

Lebron isnt even respected by most of his peers, he is the joke of the league basically.. Yeah hes playing well right now, against shit teams in the now joke of an eastern conference. The Heat should basically sweep there way to the finals, then lets see what Bronzey can do..



Lebron23, if Lebron lays an egg again in the finals this year, will you change your opinion on him???:confusedshrug:


I actually hated LeBron when the Dallas beat the Heat in the Finals, but I think this is the year that LeBron will become an NBA Champion. He learned from his past mistakes. Last night LeBron don't give a F*ck about his FG%. He scored 17 points in the final quarter.

[coin24]

I actually hated LeBron when the Dallas beat the Heat in the Finals, but I think this is the year that LeBron will become an NBA Champion. He learned from his mistakes. Last night LeBron don't give a F*ck about his FG%. He scored 17 points in the final quarter.


Against a depleted Knicks team so fatigued they could barely run up the court:oldlol:

So back to my my question, if Lebron cowers away like a pu55y again in the finals, will you continue praising him in every thread next season?????
Will 3 straight pathetic finals appearances be enough for you to realise he is not an all time great?:confusedshrug:


Same goes the other way though, props if he shows up and dominates, which he SHOULD be doing:facepalm

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

He just needs to win 2 Finals MVP. He will surpass Kobe in the all time lists because Kobe in his first 2 NBA Finals Appearance put up miserable stats in the NBA Finals.
shall we discuss Lebron's stats in his first 2 Finals?
EPICALLY bad on both occasions. worst ever by a "superstar"

[gengiskhan]

LBJ winning 1 more MVP & 1 FMVP will Equal him with Kobe easily.

LBJ no NCAA legacy = Kobe no NCAA legacy
LBJ ROY = Kobe "bench warmer"
LBJ "face of the franchise" = Kobe "product of the Lakers system"
LBJ 3 season MVPs = Kobe 1 season MVP
LBJ dominance of late '00 decade = Kobe "no dominance"
LBJ 0 FMVPs = Kobe 2 FMVPs

[coin24]

LBJ winning 1 more MVP & 1 FMVP will Equal him with Kobe easily.

LBJ no NCAA legacy = Kobe no NCAA legacy
LBJ ROY = Kobe "bench warmer"
LBJ "face of the franchise" = Kobe "product of the Lakers system"
LBJ 3 season MVPs = Kobe 1 season MVP
LBJ dominance of late '00 decade = Kobe "no dominance"
LBJ 0 FMVPs = Kobe 2 FMVPs



Really???:facepalm

Kobe 3 straight finals appearances, 2 FMVPs, 2 titles..

Lebron... Playoff chokes




Yep real dominance right there:lol

[gengiskhan]

Really???:facepalm

Kobe 3 straight finals appearances, 2 FMVPs, 2 titles..

Lebron... Playoff chokes




Yep real dominance right there:lol

LBJ

3 MVPs in 4 yrs

3 MVPs with 2 diferent franchises.

3 MVPs with 2 different franchises in 4 yrs.

nuff said.

Kobe "won" 1 FMVP against Magic. "collected" 1 FMVP against celtics thanks to Big-men Lakers system.

nuff said.

LBJ is the best player in the NBA 2007-present.

He will win a ring sooner or later.

[Vienceslav]

Well duh , if he is going to win 6 rings.
But is that happening?

[All Net]

Depends how he wins them... There is no doubt stats wise lebron is good enough to go down as a top 4-5 all time player. Just depends how he wins the titles and how many historic moments he has.

He doesn't need 6 titles to be ranked ahead of kobe of more than magic but how he wins will decide it.

Let's see if he can win one first.

[Odinn]

Hakeem has a case to be ranked over Kobe. I guess 2 or 3 rings (but like Hakeem's ones) will be enough to making a case.

[Odinn]

Depends how he wins them... There is no doubt stats wise lebron is good enough to go down as a top 4-5 all time player. Just depends how he wins the titles and how many historic moments he has.

He doesn't need 6 titles to be ranked ahead of kobe of more than magic but how he wins will decide it.

Let's see if he can win one first.
:cheers: :cheers:

[G-Funk]

He would be lucky to get 3

[CavaliersFTW]

:wtf:

[amfirst]

Now u r just asking for more hate for LeBron. Remember him saying that they will win 7 championships. Let see.... As soon as Wade declines their chances are out the window.

[gengiskhan]

Hakeem has a case to be ranked over Kobe. I guess 2 or 3 rings (but like Hakeem's ones) will be enough to making a case.

WTF is this? :facepalm

Hakeem "won" 2 FMVPs over Ewing & Shaq, marqee match ups & arch-nemesis at same positions. first ballot HOFers.

Kobe "won" 2009 FMVP over weak "magic" line up against trashy backcourt. 2010 FMVP, Kobe barely "collected" it.

How are both FMVPs the same?

Hakeem is not just above Kobe, He is ranked above Shaq too cuz of man handlling future all-time great first ballot HOFer in 1995 NBA Finals.

:wtf:

[Mr. Jabbar]

He just needs to win 2 Finals MVP. He will surpass Kobe in the all time lists because Kobe in his first 2 NBA Finals Appearance put up miserable stats in the NBA Finals.

Yeah right, he would be at the top of the bball olympus over kobe with that, just like spike Lee reigns the dirctors Olympus :oldlol:

[gengiskhan]

Yeah right, he would be at the top of the bball olympus over kobe with that, just like spike Lee reigns the dirctors Olympus :oldlol:

LBJ collected all the appropriate accolades & trophies at the right time.

Kobe didnt.

If LBJ "wins" & doesnt "collect" 2 FMVPs, he will easily surpass Kobe.

Kobe has done too little in a weak era for 16 years to justify himself even in Top 10 GOATs.

Just the reality & the truth.

[RaininTwos]

Really???:facepalm

Kobe 3 straight finals appearances, 2 FMVPs, 2 titles..

Lebron... Playoff chokes




Yep real dominance right there:lol
Because Kobe losing by 39 freaking points in a finals game really isnt a choke

[Story Up]

Kobe made 3 finals, win 2 titles and 2 fmvp in a 3 year span with a then one time all-star Gasol; James had to join forces with Wase and Bosh and still dropped an egg last year. Guy is pathetic, he just isn't a winner. People forget that he's a loser until pressure rolls his way, then he chokes yet again.

Comparing Kobe to him is a disgrace, one is a legend and more importantly a winner; James is a very talented choker, who had a horrible personality, is self-entitled and needed Wade's help to try to cement his legacy. Lol

Guy's a joke.

[LakersReign]

I'd like to preferably hear from non-Kobe lovers because we all know what their answer is going to be. :kobe:

Few quick reasons:

1) He already has more MVPs than Kobe.
2) If LBJ wins 6+ titles, of course he's going to get at least a couple FMVPs as well.
3) He took an inferior team all the way to the Finals and were top seeded routinely in the East and repeatedly took them deep in the playoffs as well. On the other hand, all Kobe could do without Shaq or the Twin Towers is carry his team up the first round only or not even make the playoffs at all.
4) etc.

Just gotta love Lebronyte "logic" if you can even call it that.:rolleyes: Yeah...discredit Kobe REAL titles, but praise Lebron's IMAGINARY ones? What the hell kind of stupid sh*t is that?:facepalm

Then you wonder why nobody takes you morons seriously....EVER.:sleeping

[Phong]

If LeBron had really won championships,
would people still have to make so many
hypothetical scenarios about him being a winner?

[TheMarkMadsen]

He just needs to win 2 Finals MVP. He will surpass Kobe in the all time lists because Kobe in his first 2 NBA Finals Appearance put up miserable stats in the NBA Finals.


Kobe Bryant 2001 NBA Finals Averages:
24.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1.4 spg, 1.4 bpg

:biggums:

[swi7ch]

Really???:facepalm

Kobe 3 straight finals appearances, 2 FMVPs, 2 titles..

Lebron... Playoff chokes




Yep real dominance right there:lol
Kobe had Shaq though and then the Twin Towers in all of those championship teams.

Tell me, what did Kobe do when he did not have either? I'll tell you---either no playoff appearance or lost in the first round. Yeah, real dominant there Kobe. You were the real difference maker!

What did LBJ do without Wade and Bosh? Just reached the NBA Finals with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player not to mention top seeded team in the East repeatedly and went deep in the playoffs every year, that's all.

Thank you.

[Alamo]

Depends how he wins them... There is no doubt stats wise lebron is good enough to go down as a top 4-5 all time player. Just depends how he wins the titles and how many historic moments he has.

He doesn't need 6 titles to be ranked ahead of kobe of more than magic but how he wins will decide it.

Let's see if he can win one first.


I agree. I say if Lebron wins 4 finals MVP he'll be ahead of Kobe all time. He still has a lot of work to do before he reaches this level. Also, there's a chance that Kobe might win another ring before he retires. I don't think it's possible for Lebron to 7 championships, so he'll just have to dominate every finals he makes it to if he wants to be ranked high all time.

[LakersReign]

Kobe had Shaq though and then the Twin Towers in all of those championship teams.

Tell me, what did Kobe do when he did not have either? I'll tell you---either no playoff appearance or lost in the first round. Yeah, real dominant there Kobe. You were the real difference maker!

What did LBJ do without Wade and Bosh? Just reached the NBA Finals with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player not to mention top seeded team in the East repeatedly and went deep in the playoffs every year, that's all.

Thank you.

........then they turn right around and cry about how bad those same Cavs supposedly sucked and how bad Lebron had it in Cleveland. Which is exactly why he HAD TO leave and go to Miami. Yeah...that's real logic right there.:facepalm

[guy]

If he plays at at least the same level as Kobe did in those championship playoff runs, I don't see why not. Of course saying he's going to do that is a big jump. But assuming he does, he's been a better regular season performer and probably a better playoff performer in non-championship playoff runs so it wouldn't be such a jump to say he would surpass Kobe. By the way, he doesn't necessarily have to win more titles then him, just depends on his level of his play and his lack of championships right now is indicative of that. At his current rate, he won't surpass Kobe.

[coin24]

........then they turn right around and cry about how bad those same Cavs supposedly sucked and how bad Lebron had it in Cleveland. Which is exactly why he HAD TO leave and go to Miami. Yeah...that's real logic right there.:facepalm


This.:applause:

There is no reasoning with a Lebron stan. Just pure retards basically.



In a Lebron stans mind Kobe only won cause he had dominant centres, shaq and gasol/injured bynum.... How shit is Lebron then if he had a top 3 player in Wade and arguably top 5 PF in Bosh:lol :lol :lol

[pauk]

Are you shitting me?

6 championships with 3 MVPs (probably will win more) and probably 6 FMVPs? Surpass Kobe? hahahah.... that surpasses ANYBODY except Michael Jordan.....

With Kobes 1 MVP and 2 FMVPs... Lebron will not need 6 fmvp/championship runs to surpass him.... thats a god damn OVERKILL...

[coin24]

Are you shitting me?

6 championships with 3 MVPs (probably will win more) and probably 6 FMVPs? Surpass Kobe? hahahah.... that surpasses ANYBODY except Michael Jordan.....

With Kobes 1 MVP and 2 FMVPs... Lebron will not need that many championship runs to surpass him....


And back to reality... 2 finals appearances, 2 completely shit performances:applause:

NO TITLES, NO FINALS MVPs. How can you argue on what Lebron MIGHT win:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[guy]

And back to reality... 2 finals appearances, 2 completely shit performances:applause:

NO TITLES, NO FINALS MVPs. How can you argue on what Lebron MIGHT win:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

That will mostly be forgotten if he overcompensates for that with rings. The problem with that thinking is that its a huge assumption to make that basically says that his past play isn't an indicator of what the rest of his career might look like. I'm not sure at his age and with his experience he's really going to change much going forward.

[pauk]

And back to reality... 2 finals appearances, 2 completely shit performances:applause:

NO TITLES, NO FINALS MVPs. How can you argue on what Lebron MIGHT win:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Like Kobe has been any better in the Finals with his 15 PPG averaging in 2000 finals and then 22 ppg and so on.... in 99% of Kobes finals he has also shot much worse than Lebron.... not like it mattered right? With Shaq producing like a behemoth literally carrying his poor shotjacking sidekick to 3 championships no matter how pathetic Kobe played.....

Dont compare Kobes Finals appearance runs to Lebron... at 22 year old he took the worst team in NBA history to be in a NBA Finals.... and to do that he had to pull a rabbit out of his a-hole... Kobe could have NEVER done what Lebron did in Cleveland... NEVER... i can guarantee you that...

Not even in the last Finals did he play bad, 18-7-7 on 48% FG, he led both teams in assists & rebounds.... thats still better than most of Kobes Finals appearances.... Lebron was passive like hell in that series, he was defering to a hot Wade......... i suggest you stay tuned this Finals and witness a pissed of Lebron, i feel sorry for whoever will face this Lebron in the upcoming Finals....

and oh... Kobe was not able to win a Championship as THE MAN until he was 30 years old.... and there he had the Twin Tower/stacked team... so stop with your excuses...

PS: I think its also funny how Kobetards try to downgrade Lebrons selection of finally having a TEAM which Kobe had most of his life (and he didnt even had to go anywhere, he got everything handed to him on a silverplate).... and Lebrons team is still not as good as Kobes best team has been.... Lebron could not afford to average 15-22 PPG on 30-44% FG with low rebounds, assists in Finals like Kobe could and still win a championship...... thats an immediate loss... for Kobe no... he had the most dominant Center ever literally carry him...

[Deuce Bigalow]

He just needs to win 2 Finals MVP. He will surpass Kobe in the all time lists because Kobe in his first 2 NBA Finals Appearance put up miserable stats in the NBA Finals.
He was injured his first Finals, here was his next 2

'01
24.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 5.8apg, 1.4 spg, 1.4 bpg, .415 FG%

'02
26.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.3 apg, 1.5 spg, .514 FG%, 62.3 TS%


Here are Lebron's

'07
22.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, .356 FG%

'11
17.8 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 6.8 apg, .478 FG%

Lebron has never scored 26 points in the NBA Finals, yet Kobe averaged than when he was 23 in the Finals, on 62.3 TS%.

In 2011, a prime Lebron got outscored by a bench player, and averaged 2.2 4th quarter points, and scored 0 clutch points.
:facepalm Don't even compare

Lebron's are not even close to Kobe's.

2 championships (imaginary) vs 5 championships, lol. Lebron will not pass him with 2.

[coin24]

Basically Pauk, it means Lebron has won nothing in the finals. So you trying to compare what he MIGHT win, to what Kobe HAS ACTUALLY WON is fu*king retarded.

Obviously you know Kobe is better because you keep thinking up ways that Lebron can catch up to or become better than him. Its not going to happen....


Now i really hope Lebron lays an egg again in this years finals:lol :lol

[gengiskhan]

Are you shitting me?

6 championships with 3 MVPs (probably will win more) and probably 6 FMVPs? Surpass Kobe? hahahah.... that surpasses ANYBODY except Michael Jordan.....

With Kobes 1 MVP and 2 FMVPs... Lebron will not need 6 fmvp/championship runs to surpass him.... thats a god damn OVERKILL...

well said.

all kobe'tards butt rappped.

[Deuce Bigalow]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Like Kobe has been any better in the Finals with his 15 PPG averaging in 2000 finals and then 22 ppg and so on.... in 99% of Kobes finals he has also shot much worse than Lebron.... not like it mattered right? With Shaq producing like a behemoth literally carrying his poor shotjacking sidekick to 3 championships no matter how pathetic Kobe played.....

Dont compare Kobes Finals appearance runs to Lebron... at 22 year old he took the worst team in NBA history to be in a NBA Finals.... and to do that he had to pull a rabbit out of his a-hole... Kobe could have NEVER done what Lebron did in Cleveland... NEVER... i can guarantee you that...

Not even in the last Finals did he play bad, 18-7-7 on 48% FG, he led both teams in assists & rebounds.... thats still better than most of Kobes Finals appearances.... Lebron was passive like hell in that series, he was defering to a hot Wade......... i suggest you stay tuned this Finals and witness a pissed of Lebron, i feel sorry for whoever will face this Lebron in the upcoming Finals....

and oh... Kobe was not able to win a Championship as THE MAN until he was 30 years old.... and there he had the Twin Tower/stacked team... so stop with your excuses...

PS: I think its also funny how Kobetards try to downgrade Lebrons selection of finally having a TEAM which Kobe had most of his life (and he didnt even had to go anywhere, he got everything handed to him on a silverplate).... and Lebrons team is still not as good as Kobes best team has been.... Lebron could not afford to average 15-22 PPG on 30-44% FG with low rebounds, assists in Finals like Kobe could and still win a championship...... thats an immediate loss... for Kobe no... he had the most dominant Center ever literally carry him...
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

'11 Finals
Chris Bosh - 18.5 PPG
Jason terry - 18.0 PPG
Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

http://nbamoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-14-at-1.03.28-PM.png

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[coin24]

well said.

all kobe'tards butt rappped.


Hey why not make it 10 championships and 10 FMPs... oh and he becomes undisputed GOAT:bowdown:

Make believe is awesome:rockon:




And in real life... Lebron = Finals Loser. Can you prove otherwise????:confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

'11 Finals
Chris Bosh - 18.5 PPG
Jason terry - 18.0 PPG
Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

http://nbamoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-14-at-1.03.28-PM.png

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg
:roll:

[Alamo]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

'11 Finals
Chris Bosh - 18.5 PPG
Jason terry - 18.0 PPG
Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

http://nbamoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-14-at-1.03.28-PM.png

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[swi7ch]

........then they turn right around and cry about how bad those same Cavs supposedly sucked and how bad Lebron had it in Cleveland. Which is exactly why he HAD TO leave and go to Miami. Yeah...that's real logic right there.:facepalm
Kobe wanted out of LAL too just like LBJ during those years when he did not have help. They added Pau Gasol which is why Kobe stopped b1tching about being traded out of LA.

The only difference with the LBJ situation is the Cavs added Antawn Jamison to help LBJ. It was then when he realized the Cavs management is beyond retarded and the only way he'll ever get real help is to go elsewehre.

[TheMan]

No way LBJ wins 6 titles, come on...2 or 3.

[TheMan]

:roll:
That should be crime for a player of his level:facepalm

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

this thread did not go well for the Lebron fans.
All it did was remind us of how poorly Lebron has performed.

[Phong]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

'11 Finals
Chris Bosh - 18.5 PPG
Jason terry - 18.0 PPG
Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

http://nbamoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-14-at-1.03.28-PM.png

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[lilgodfather1]

Two championships to pass Kobe. LeBron is already top 15, one championship puts hm in that 11 range, and two puts him 9 or 10 bumping Kobe out.

[Cangri]

Why not let him win at least 1 before talking about more rings?

[ronniec]

Against a depleted Knicks team so fatigued they could barely run up the court:oldlol:

So back to my my question, if Lebron cowers away like a pu55y again in the finals, will you continue praising him in every thread next season?????
Will 3 straight pathetic finals appearances be enough for you to realise he is not an all time great?:confusedshrug:


Same goes the other way though, props if he shows up and dominates, which he SHOULD be doing:facepalm

Lebron dick riders are always Lebron dick riders... so pathetic to use last night's game against the Knicks (YES, THE KNICKS!!!) as an example to point out how "GOOD" Lebron is... so pathetic...

Not having one ring and one FMVP and these dick riders want their idol to be the GOAT, surpassing this and that... amazing.

[talkingconch]

Depends on performance and what he becomes known for.

Not looking good right now though. We'll know when hes near the end of his career on what kind of legacy he has fulfilled. Nobody put kobe in the top 10 before his last 2 rings really. Now, its different and anyone credible has him in the top 10 all-time.

Keep in mind he left in FA to play with 2 top players in the league in their primes. That's gonna stay in his legacy

[talkingconch]

PS: I think its also funny how Kobetards try to downgrade Lebrons selection of finally having a TEAM which Kobe had most of his life (and he didnt even had to go anywhere, he got everything handed to him on a silverplate).... and Lebrons team is still not as good as Kobes best team has been.... Lebron could not afford to average 15-22 PPG on 30-44% FG with low rebounds, assists in Finals like Kobe could and still win a championship...... thats an immediate loss... for Kobe no... he had the most dominant Center ever literally carry him...

Kobe was a Laker since day 1 of being in the league. Shaq was on the Lakers. Kobe grew into the franchise. 3 rings.
Bynum was drafted by the Lakers, Gasol was traded for. Kobe stayed on the Lakers. 2 rings.

Lebron left Cleveland to join and make the superfriends in south beach. How low can your IQ be?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Two championships to pass Kobe. LeBron is already top 15, one championship puts hm in that 11 range, and two puts him 9 or 10 bumping Kobe out.
2 Championships for Lebron will leave him outside the top 10.
Every player in the top 10 has atleast 2 rings

Jordan - 6
Russell - 11
Magic - 5
Kareem - 6
Bird - 3
Shaq - 4
Kobe - 5
Duncan - 4
Hakeem - 2
Wilt - 2

[guy]

Not even in the last Finals did he play bad, 18-7-7 on 48% FG, he led both teams in assists & rebounds.... thats still better than most of Kobes Finals appearances.... Lebron was passive like hell in that series, he was defering to a hot Wade......... i suggest you stay tuned this Finals and witness a pissed of Lebron, i feel sorry for whoever will face this Lebron in the upcoming Finals....


Wow, that is just stupid. Spoken like a fan that only looks at stats, specifically FG%, and ignores what he was actually watching. There's only 1 Kobe Finals appearance that was arguably worst, and even then probably not, and that was the 2004 Finals.

[NumberSix]

LeBron is already > Kobe.

[Alamo]

LeBron is already > Kobe.

lol NumberSix you goon


(i see what you did there)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron is already > Kobe.

On an all-time list? Not even close.

[Alamo]

Not even in the last Finals did he play bad, 18-7-7 on 48% FG, he led both teams in assists & rebounds.... thats still better than most of Kobes Finals appearances.... Lebron was passive like hell in that series, he was defering to a hot Wade......... i suggest you stay tuned this Finals and witness a pissed of Lebron, i feel sorry for whoever will face this Lebron in the upcoming Finals....



http://nbamoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-14-at-1.03.28-PM.png

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

2 Championships for Lebron will leave him outside the top 10.
Every player in the top 10 has atleast 2 rings

Jordan - 6
Russell - 11
Magic - 5
Kareem - 6
Bird - 3
Shaq - 4
Kobe - 5
Duncan - 4
Hakeem - 2
Wilt - 2
How about players outside the top 10? Lebron still has to catch guys like Pippen.

[Bigsmoke]

sure

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://nbamoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-14-at-1.03.28-PM.png

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/7877887211.gif

http://ajsupreme.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/mj-laughing1.gif

[Heavincent]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

'11 Finals
Chris Bosh - 18.5 PPG
Jason terry - 18.0 PPG
Lebron James - 17.8 PPG

http://nbamoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-14-at-1.03.28-PM.png

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

Game, set, and match :roll: :roll: :roll:

Ah yes, Lebron, the hypothetical GOAT. It's quite a nice fantasy world Lebron stans have created for themselves. Funny how people talk about him winning 6 titles and bla bla. Well guess what: Kobe already has 5 titles...in REALITY. Like actual championships, not the make believe ones that Lebron has.

[LBJMVP]

depends how he wins them... he could win less then kobe and still end up better all time.

i dont like lebron, but its hard to deny his dominance... 3 MVP's in 4 years is outstanding.

if he wins a couple finals MVP's then he is easily in the top 10.

some people hate to say it, but his track record is incredible... like i said, i don't like lebron, but he could easily end up in the top 5 ever.

i think kobe will go down in the top five as well though.

[bwink23]

Basically, the basketball world is in a holding pattern, waiting for Lebron to cement himself with some rings and Finals MVP's....he's better than Kobe ever was. But, all-time greats need to prove it on the biggest stage. His time is coming, it may already be here....and it scares Kobe lovers to DEATH. :lol

[Kiddlovesnets]

Nope, he just needs to win 3-4 titles to surpass Kobe unless Wade wins 1-2 final MVPs during this process and clearly outperformed Lebron. Remember it was basically Shaq's one-man show for Lakers' three-peat in 2000-2002.

[LakersReign]

Kobe wanted out of LAL too just like LBJ during those years when he did not have help. They added Pau Gasol which is why Kobe stopped b1tching about being traded out of LA.

The only difference with the LBJ situation is the Cavs added Antawn Jamison to help LBJ. It was then when he realized the Cavs management is beyond retarded and the only way he'll ever get real help is to go elsewehre.

.............AND......there he goes back to the "oh...well....the Cavs sucked and that's why Lebron HAD TO leave" excuse. Keeping in mind, in his last post:

Kobe had Shaq though and then the Twin Towers in all of those championship teams.

Tell me, what did Kobe do when he did not have either? I'll tell you---either no playoff appearance or lost in the first round. Yeah, real dominant there Kobe. You were the real difference maker!

What did LBJ do without Wade and Bosh? Just reached the NBA Finals with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player not to mention top seeded team in the East repeatedly and went deep in the playoffs every year, that's all.

Thank you.

he was just praising the same sucky Cavs for making it to the Finals with Lebron. Keep trying to have it both ways, and then still think people are going to take you seriously:rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Basically, the basketball world is in a holding pattern, waiting for Lebron to cement himself with some rings and Finals MVP's....he's better than Kobe ever was. But, all-time greats need to prove it on the biggest stage. His time is coming, it may already be here....and it scares Kobe lovers to DEATH. :lol
Did Lebron lead his team to 3 straight Finals, back to back championships, and won back to back Finals MVPs?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nope, he just needs to win 3-4 titles to surpass Kobe unless Wade wins 1-2 final MVPs during this process and clearly outperformed Lebron. Remember it was basically Shaq's one-man show for Lakers' three-peat in 2000-2002.


Shaq - Playoffs
2001- 30.4, 15.4, 3.2, 57 TS%
2002- 28.5, 12.6, 2.8, 59 TS%

Kobe - Playoffs
2001- 29.4, 7.3, 6.1, 55 TS%
2002- 26.6, 5.8, 4.6, 54 TS%


Here were they're stats through the Western Conference Playoffs:


2001 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

Kobe was leading the team in PPG and APG

Here are they're stats in the 4th quarter:


2001 Playoffs - 4th Quarter/OT
Bryant - 40/80 FG, 7/18 3PT, 50.0 FG%, 54.4 eFG%, 38.9 3PT% in 16 games
O'Neal - 38/71 FG, 0/0 3PT, 53.5 FG%, 53.5 eFG%, 0.0 3PT% in 16 games

2002 Playoffs - 4th Quarter/OT
Bryant - 52/106 FG, 12/24 3PT, 49.1 FG%, 54.7 eFG%, 50.0 3PT% in 19 games
O'Neal - 32/85 FG, 0/0 3PT, 37.6 FG%, 37.6 eFG%, 0.0 3PT% in 18 games

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2001&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=LAL&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2002&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=LAL&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


lol one man show.

[Rysio]

Here were they're stats through the Western Conference Playoffs:



Kobe was leading the team in PPG and APG

Here are they're stats in the 4th quarter:



lol one man show.
:applause:

[Svendiggity]

No.

There was no game plan to stop Kobe when he was still explosive. I don't see Lebron ever getting to that point. He can't give you 6 straight buckets in half-court offense like Dirk did last year or Kobe did in the two previous years. Though, he has shown flashes.

Guys like Barkley and Lebron fill the stat sheets with high efficiency plays but their are less opportunities for those types of plays the further you get into the playoffs. You need a player that can create something out of nothing. Like with anything, there have been exceptions but it does usually come down to that.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Basically, the basketball world is in a holding pattern, waiting for Lebron to cement himself with some rings and Finals MVP's....he's better than Kobe ever was. But, all-time greats need to prove it on the biggest stage. His time is coming, it may already be here....and it scares Kobe lovers to DEATH. :lol
:roll:
He cannot be better than Kobe, nor DWade, if he consistently fails, on an epic scale, when it matters most. He has done this twice. He has a long way to go before he catches his own teammate. We can discuss Kobe in 4 or 5 years.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Nope, he just needs to win 3-4 titles to surpass Kobe unless Wade wins 1-2 final MVPs during this process and clearly outperformed Lebron. Remember it was basically Shaq's one-man show for Lakers' three-peat in 2000-2002.
wow, dude, you just got SMASHED by the above post.
tail between legs now?

[bwink23]

:roll:
He cannot be better than Kobe, nor DWade, if he consistently fails, on an epic scale, when it matters most. He has done this twice. He has a long way to go before he catches his own teammate. We can discuss Kobe in 4 or 5 years.


WHY???

:biggums:

[BlueandGold]

Why are you still using this account? Let's have a 1 year IP Ban Bet. LBJ will win his first NBA Finals MVP this year.
I want to take this bet on so bad.

Has anyone else officially taken him on this bet?

[west_tip]

........then they turn right around and cry about how bad those same Cavs supposedly sucked and how bad Lebron had it in Cleveland. Which is exactly why he HAD TO leave and go to Miami. Yeah...that's real logic right there.:facepalm

Compared to Kobe who ran PJax and Shaq outta town then threw a hissy fit to get traded in 2007 after 0 playoff series wins in 3 years.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Compared to Kobe who ran PJax and Shaq outta town then threw a hissy fit to get traded in 2007 after 0 playoff series wins in 3 years.
.......and then won back-to-back championships and fMVPs

[west_tip]

.......and then won back-to-back championships and fMVPs


Thought that was 2 years thereafter. They lost to the Celts in 2008.

[G-Funk]

Here were they're stats through the Western Conference Playoffs:



Kobe was leading the team in PPG and APG

Here are they're stats in the 4th quarter:



lol one man show.

Either

[SpecialQue]

Why do these threads exist? Are fans of both of these players that fvcking insecure?

[Nash]

Wait, so you mean 6 rings + 8 times in the finals with at least 3 MVP's?

Yeah, that won't happen.

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron being the GOAT is probably out of the picture but he could still be a top 5-10 player of all-time and he could definitely be the best SF of all-time. It is a matter of how he wins those championships though, not how many championships he wins.

[LakersReign]

Compared to Kobe who ran PJax and Shaq outta town then threw a hissy fit to get traded in 2007 after 0 playoff series wins in 3 years.

If you actually read the post before responding to is, you'd realize that your answer had nothing to do with my post.:facepalm

[JohnnyWall]

Kobe gets shit for "needing" Shaq for his first 3 rings.
LeBron will get shit for needing Wade and Bosh for his first 3 rings.

Then if LeBron makes it that far and goes on to actually lead his own team to 2 more rings after that, I'll consider putting him in discussion with Kobe and the top 10 GOAT stratosphere.

[bwink23]

Lebron being the GOAT is probably out of the picture but he could still be a top 5-10 player of all-time and he could definitely be the best SF of all-time. It is a matter of how he wins those championships though, not how many championships he wins.


THIS....

Quality of championships is greater than quantity.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Here were they're stats through the Western Conference Playoffs:



Kobe was leading the team in PPG and APG

Here are they're stats in the 4th quarter:



lol one man show.

Well stats does not speak for everything. Replace Kobe by other superstar SGs in that era such as Vince Carter, Ray Allen playing alongside with Shaq and Lakers still won three in a row. Replace Shaq by any other Cs and your Lakers would not make it to the finals.

[Ronaldinho]

Well stats does not speak for everything. Replace Kobe by other superstar SGs in that era such as Vince Carter, Ray Allen playing alongside with Shaq and Lakers still won three in a row. Replace Shaq by any other Cs and your Lakers would not make it to the finals.
Thats such a lie...

[LakersReign]

Well stats does not speak for everything. Replace Kobe by other superstar SGs in that era such as Vince Carter, Ray Allen playing alongside with Shaq and Lakers still won three in a row. Replace Shaq by any other Cs and your Lakers would not make it to the finals.

That excuse is so hilariously stupid it's not even funny. Yeah...take Kobe off the Lakers, and slap ANYBODY in his spot, and the Lakers still win....right? Which explains exactly why Shaq couldn't win a damn thing without Kobe....right?:rolleyes:

[comerb]

he needs to win 3. He's a better player than Kobe ever was, he just needs to prove he can win rings consistently.

[bwink23]

That excuse is so hilariously stupid it's not even funny. Yeah...take Kobe off the Lakers, and slap ANYBODY in his spot, and the Lakers still win....right? Which explains exactly why Shaq couldn't win a damn thing without Kobe....right?:rolleyes:


D-Wade and Shaq in 2006?? :confusedshrug:

:lol :lol :lol

[LakersReign]

D-Wade and Shaq in 2006?? :confusedshrug:

:lol :lol :lol

Yeah....cuz those 9 points he scored in the clinching game really lit up the scoreboard....huh? Keeping in mind, this is the same Shaq was averaged over 30+ points in the playoffs and Finals prior to '05 and '06. Oh, and by the way, exactly how many rings did he win in Cleveland with the supposed best player in the league?:no:


Nice try:applause:

[bwink23]

Yeah....cuz those 9 points he scored in the clinching game really lit up the scoreboard....huh? Keeping in mind, this is the same Shaq was averaged over 30+ points in the playoffs and Finals prior to '05 and '06:no:


Nice try:applause:


So D-Wade led Shaq to a championship in a diminished role, while Shaq led Kobe to championships?? :confusedshrug:


:lol :lol

[Bandito]

I'd like to preferably hear from non-Kobe lovers because we all know what their answer is going to be. :kobe:

Few quick reasons:

1) He already has more MVPs than Kobe.
2) If LBJ wins 6+ titles, of course he's going to get at least a couple FMVPs as well.
3) He took an inferior team all the way to the Finals and were top seeded routinely in the East and repeatedly took them deep in the playoffs as well. On the other hand, all Kobe could do without Shaq or the Twin Towers is carry his team up the first round only or not even make the playoffs at all.
4) etc.
Is this a serious question?:biggums: Of course he will:facepalm

[LakersReign]

So D-Wade led Shaq to a championship in a diminished role, while Shaq led Kobe to championships?? :confusedshrug:


:lol :lol

.....which explains exactly why he NEVER won a damn thing without a Kobe....FIRST.....THEN a Wade.:facepalm


Oh, and by the way, what happened in Orlando, Cleveland, Phoenix, and Boston, then since according to you, Shaq's supposedly so great?:confusedshrug:

Nice try:applause:

[Bandito]

So D-Wade led Shaq to a championship in a diminished role, while Shaq led Kobe to championships?? :confusedshrug:


:lol :lol
What a fail on LakersReign part:facepalm

[LakersReign]

What are you talking about? The only fail here is bwink....AS USUAL. The clown pretty much contradicted himself like he usually does. He's trying to say Shaq was the ONLY reason the Lakers won those titles. And if you take Kobe off those teams and put ANYBODY in his spot, the result would still be the same. If that was ever even true, then why didn't Shaq win until he came to LA and got teamed up with Kobe? The idiot brings up '06 like it proves anything. '06 was 1 title NOT 3 like in LA and that title was more a product of Wade than Shaq which negates his so called argument.

What further kills his so called argument is the fact that Shaq never won anything else after that. Keeping in mind, his so called point is Shaq is all that, and slap ANYBODY on a team with him in Kobe's spot and they win. Which explains why he never won anything in Phoenix, Cleveland and Boston. Then he tries to be a smarta** and say Wade led Shaq to a title, which negates his argument even further.:facepalm

[west_tip]

If you actually read the post before responding to is, you'd realize that your answer had nothing to do with my post.:facepalm


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

You dog lebron for bettering his situation going to play where he has a chance to win a ring after he took bad supporting casts deep into the playoffs multiple seasons. it was his prerogative to do so considering he was an unrestricted free agent.

on the flip side kobe gets a pass for doing jack shit in the postseason post shaq pre gasol years of 05-07 and demanding a trade to a contender AFTER breaking up the pjax/shaq/kobe trio 3 years earlier.

interesting the double standards that some of these fanboys operate under.

[LakersReign]

Child please. Go somewhere else with all that POINTLESS ranting and rambling on and on about nothing. NONE of that has anything to do with the post you originally responded to.


Kobe had Shaq though and then the Twin Towers in all of those championship teams.

Tell me, what did Kobe do when he did not have either? I'll tell you---either no playoff appearance or lost in the first round. Yeah, real dominant there Kobe. You were the real difference maker!

What did LBJ do without Wade and Bosh? Just reached the NBA Finals with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player not to mention top seeded team in the East repeatedly and went deep in the playoffs every year, that's all.

Thank you.



........then they turn right around and cry about how bad those same Cavs supposedly sucked and how bad Lebron had it in Cleveland. Which is exactly why he HAD TO leave and go to Miami. Yeah...that's real logic right there.:facepalm

Learn how to read:sleeping

[gilalizard]

I agree. I say if Lebron wins 4 finals MVP he'll be ahead of Kobe all time. He still has a lot of work to do before he reaches this level. Also, there's a chance that Kobe might win another ring before he retires. I don't think it's possible for Lebron to 7 championships, so he'll just have to dominate every finals he makes it to if he wants to be ranked high all time.

He's already 0-2 in that respect.

Epic failures are part of a player's legacy too.

[Smoke117]

Sure why not. I mean why not argue about latina ***** and white ***** besides this? These topics are ****ing stupid. You all stupid son of a bitches with too much time on their hands for this to get this many responses. F.ucking morons. I should be Jeff or insidehoops or whoever that clown is. I would clean the F.UCK out of this forum! So many stupid Mother F*ckers jesus christ.

[guy]

.....which explains exactly why he NEVER won a damn thing without a Kobe....FIRST.....THEN a Wade.:facepalm


Oh, and by the way, what happened in Orlando, Cleveland, Phoenix, and Boston, then since according to you, Shaq's supposedly so great?:confusedshrug:

Nice try:applause:

Clearly he was way past his prime in Cleveland, Phoenix, and Boston. Are you really trying to argue that he would've never won anything had he never had Kobe or Wade in his career? Or just that we can't prove anything? Cause the former is one of the dumbest ways of thinking on this board that is constantly used. Shaq was going to win some regardless. He was that dominant.

And pointing out that he only scored 9 points in the final game of the 2006 Finals actually proves that point even more. That means that had he still been his prime 28+/12+ self, he probably could've gotten away with less help then someone like Wade to win that series.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Well stats does not speak for everything. Replace Kobe by other superstar SGs in that era such as Vince Carter, Ray Allen playing alongside with Shaq and Lakers still won three in a row. Replace Shaq by any other Cs and your Lakers would not make it to the finals.
So Vince Carter or Ray Allen would lead the 2001 and 2002 Lakers in 4th quarter scoring over prime Shaq, like Kobe did?

Would Vince Carter or Ray Allen lead the 2001 and 2002 Lakers in PPG and APG through the Western Conference Playoffs, like Kobe did?

Would Vince Carter or Ray Allen lead the Lakers in scoring in 4 out of 8 playoff series in 2001 and 2002 ('01 WCSF, '01 WCF, '02 1stRd, '02 WCSF) the series below:?

'01 WCSF
Kobe - 35.0 9.0 4.3 47.3%
Shaq - 33.3 17.3 2.3 59.8%

'01 WCF
Kobe - 33.3 7.0 7.0 51.4%
Shaq - 27.0 13.0 2.5 54.1%

'02 1stRd
Kobe - 26.0 5.7 5.0 35.3%
Shaq - 25.7 11.3 4.0 56.3%

'02 WCSF
Kobe - 26.2 5.4 4.8 45.5%
Shaq - 21.4 12.2 3.2 44.7%

[bwink23]

So Vince Carter or Ray Allen would lead the 2001 and 2002 Lakers in 4th quarter scoring over prime Shaq, like Kobe did?

Would Vince Carter or Ray Allen lead the 2001 and 2002 Lakers in PPG and APG through the Western Conference Playoffs, like Kobe did?

Would Vince Carter or Ray Allen lead the Lakers in scoring in 4 out of 8 playoff series in 2001 and 2002 ('01 WCSF, '01 WCF, '02 1stRd, '02 WCSF) the series below:?

'01 WCSF
Kobe - 35.0 9.0 4.3 47.3%
Shaq - 33.3 17.3 2.3 59.8%

'01 WCF
Kobe - 33.3 7.0 7.0 51.4%
Shaq - 27.0 13.0 2.5 54.1%

'02 1stRd
Kobe - 26.0 5.7 5.0 35.3%
Shaq - 25.7 11.3 4.0 56.3%

'02 WCSF
Kobe - 26.2 5.4 4.8 45.5%
Shaq - 21.4 12.2 3.2 44.7%


So now the stats mean something huh? REMEMBER THAT. :D

[LakersReign]

Clearly he was way past his prime in Cleveland, Phoenix, and Boston. Are you really trying to argue that he would've never won anything had he never had Kobe or Wade in his career? Or just that we can't prove anything? Cause the former is one of the dumbest ways of thinking on this board that is constantly used. Shaq was going to win some regardless. He was that dominant.

And pointing out that he only scored 9 points in the final game of the 2006 Finals actually proves that point even more. That means that had he still been his prime 28+/12+ self, he probably could've gotten away with less help then someone like Wade to win that series.

Please.:rolleyes:
The dumbest way of thinking that has been debunked over and over again, but idiots STILL keep trying to make other idiots buy into it. Is trying to say slap ANYBODY on the Lakers with Shaq and they'll still win. If that hot garbage was ever even true, he would've won in Orlando and wouldn't have been traded to LA. in the first place. All that "past his prime "crap is semantics to support a failed argument. Dominant or not, the FACT is and remains he didn't win sh*t until he got teamed with Kobe on the Lakers. "Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....Kobe's nothing special and put ANYBODY in his spot and the Lakers still win.":sleeping

I find it so funny how, y'all want to give Shaq ALL the credit alone for winning in LA. But the minute he left and didn't dominate like he did in LA, it's so convenient how the excuse is "oh...well....he was past his prime anyway." Which pretty much supports my argument, that Shaq was NEVER the SOLE factor in winning those titles in LA. Keep trying to discredit Kobe all y'all want to since there's really no evidence to support your ridiculous theory:no:

[guy]

Please.:rolleyes:
The dumbest way of thinking that has been debunked over and over again, but idiots STILL keep trying to make other idiots buy into it. Is trying to say slap ANYBODY on the Lakers with Shaq and they'll still win. If that hot garbage was ever even true, he would've won in Orlando and wouldn't have been traded to LA. in the first place. All that "past his prime "crap is semantics to support a failed argument. Dominant or not, the FACT is and remains he didn't win sh*t until he got teamed with Kobe on the Lakers. "Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....Kobe's nothing special and put ANYBODY in his spot and the Lakers still win.":sleeping

Who said anything about putting "ANYBODY" on the Lakers? The examples I've heard were all-star elite wingmen. Is everyone an all-star elite wingmen? Are they including players like Aaron McKie when they say that? Of course not.

Shaq was never traded from Orlando nor was he gone from Orlando because they didn't want him if thats what you're implying. Were you even watching back then? He only played in Orlando for his first 4 years. He was a rookie in his first year, won game 50+ games his second year and lost in the first round. The next year he went to the Finals only to lose in the Finals to best player in the league at the time who was a top 10 player ever in his prime and defending champion with most of his experienced core with them. The next year they went to the ECF to lose to arguably the greatest team ever in the 1996 Bulls. This all in his first 4 years when he wasn't really in his prime. The next 3 years he was on the Lakers and kind of underachieved due to injuries, bad coaches, and knuckleheaded teammates.

Shaq wasn't losing cause of anything he was doing or he choked i.e. the way Lebron has the past few years. He just went up against all-time great players and teams and the first few years with the Lakers lacked alot of stability and structure.




I find it so funny how, y'all want to give Shaq ALL the credit alone for winning in LA. But the minute he left and didn't dominate like he did in LA, it's so convenient how the excuse is "oh...well....he was past his prime anyway." Which pretty much supports my argument, that Shaq was NEVER the SOLE factor in winning those titles in LA. Keep trying to discredit Kobe all y'all want to since there's really no evidence to support your ridiculous theory:no:

Not the sole factor, but the biggest reason. Technically, we do have evidence that he would've won without Kobe cause he won with Wade, and we have evidence he would've won without Wade cause he won with Kobe. If your argument is that we don't evidence that he didn't need at least one of those guys to win, well you're right. And thats my main point. Its a stupid way of thinking. We don't have evidence cause unfortunately we can't replay a player's career under hundreds of different scenarios. That doesn't mean the absolute only way Shaq could've ever won a title was with only Kobe or Wade SPECIFICALLY. Just like its stupid to say the only way Jordan could've won a title was with Pippen, Magic only with Kareem, Bird only with McHale, Kobe only with Shaq or Gasol, etc. However, usually we can clearly see who were the biggest reasons for a championships, and those players are usually much more irreplaceable then anyone else on those teams.

[LakersReign]

Who said anything about putting "ANYBODY" on the Lakers? The examples I've heard were all-star elite wingmen. Is everyone an all-star elite wingmen? Are they including players like Aaron McKie when they say that? Of course not.

Shaq was never traded from Orlando nor was he gone from Orlando because they didn't want him if thats what you're implying. Were you even watching back then? He only played in Orlando for his first 4 years. He was a rookie in his first year, won game 50+ games his second year and lost in the first round. The next year he went to the Finals only to lose in the Finals to best player in the league at the time who was a top 10 player ever in his prime and defending champion with most of his experienced core with them. The next year they went to the ECF to lose to arguably the greatest team ever in the 1996 Bulls. This all in his first 4 years when he wasn't really in his prime. The next 3 years he was on the Lakers and kind of underachieved due to injuries, bad coaches, and knuckleheaded teammates.

Shaq wasn't losing cause of anything he was doing or he choked i.e. the way Lebron has the past few years. He just went up against all-time great players and teams and the first few years with the Lakers lacked alot of stability and structure.




Not the sole factor, but the biggest reason. Technically, we do have evidence that he would've won without Kobe cause he won with Wade, and we have evidence he would've won without Wade cause he won with Kobe. If your argument is that we don't evidence that he didn't need at least one of those guys to win, well you're right. And thats my main point. Its a stupid way of thinking. We don't have evidence cause unfortunately we can't replay a player's career under hundreds of different scenarios. That doesn't mean the absolute only way Shaq could've ever won a title was with only Kobe or Wade SPECIFICALLY. Just like its stupid to say the only way Jordan could've won a title was with Pippen, Magic only with Kareem, Bird only with McHale, Kobe only with Shaq or Gasol, etc. However, usually we can clearly see who were the biggest reasons for a championships, and those players are usually much more irreplaceable then anyone else on those teams.

Rant and ramble on and on all you want to with your semantics to support a FAILED argument. "Oh...well....I didn't say ANYBODY, I said elite wingmen." Which is exactly the same thing:rolleyes:

Shaq asked to be traded cuz he didn't want to defer to Kobe, and paid for it. He didn't seem to have a problem deferring to Wade in Miami though. I say again, y'all can keep trying to discredit Kobe's contributions to those titles all y'all want to. Shaq's "bread and butter" was with the Lakers AND Kobe. He left to try and prove that he could do it, and had done it all by himself and turned around and proved otherwise. That one title in Miami made him look stupid for leaving LA.

I just find it hilarious how, when he won in Miami, in '06, y'all want to give Wade all the credit, deservedly so btw. Since he admitted that during the clinching game for the tile, he had to tell Shaq to get his head in the game. This is the same "dominant" Shaq y'all want to give all the credit to for winning those titles in LA. But when it comes to that, y'all want to only give Shaq all the credit. That makes no sense. Oh, and by the way, for whatever reason Wade and Shaq no longer speak to each other, or haven't spoken to each other in quite some time. Seems like a recurring pattern. So to blame him only winning one title after leaving the Lakers simply on being "past his prime" seems even more laughable.

[guy]

Rant and ramble on and on all you want to with your semantics to support a FAILED argument. "Oh...well....I didn't say ANYBODY, I said elite wingmen." Which is exactly the same thing:rolleyes:

Shaq asked to be traded cuz he didn't want to defer to Kobe, and paid for it. He didn't seem to have a problem deferring to Wade in Miami though. I say again, y'all can keep trying to discredit Kobe's contributions to those titles all y'all want to. Shaq's "bread and butter" was with the Lakers AND Kobe. He left to try and prove that he could do it, and had done it all by himself and turned around and proved otherwise. That one title in Miami made him look stupid for leaving LA.

I just find it hilarious how, when he won in Miami, in '06, y'all want to give Wade all the credit, deservedly so btw. Since he admitted that during the clinching game for the tile, he had to tell Shaq to get his head in the game. This is the same "dominant" Shaq y'all want to give all the credit to for winning those titles in LA. But when it comes to that, y'all want to only give Shaq all the credit. That makes no sense. Oh, and by the way, for whatever reason Wade and Shaq no longer speak to each other, or haven't spoken to each other in quite some time. Seems like a recurring pattern. So to blame him only winning one title after leaving the Lakers simply on being "past his prime" seems even more laughable.

Saying Kobe could've been replaced by 2-4 players in the league and they would've won isn't exactly saying "Anybody". Its not saying he was irreplaceable, but its not saying he was easily replaceable either. Kobe at this point gets a lot of credit for those 3 titles. If he didn't, he wouldn't be nearly as highly regarded as he is today. Quit crying about it.

Umm, Shaq was past his prime. Shaq was past his prime a year or two before he even left LA. At the time he won a title with the Heat, he was 34 years old and in his 14th season in the league. What player at 34 years old in their 14th season was in their prime? What exactly are you trying to argue? That the only reason that Shaq had an overall decline between 97-04 on the Lakers and 05-11 on the Heat, Cavs, Suns, and Celtics was that he wasn't playing with Kobe anymore?

And how did that one title make him look stupid? You said it yourself that his bread and butter i.e. his prime was with the Lakers. So why should we have expected him to accomplish just as much or more with the Heat? And wouldn't that idiotic logic apply to Kobe as well? He ran Shaq out of town and "only" won 2 titles, which is less then what he did with Shaq.

[LakersReign]

Saying Kobe could've been replaced by 2-4 players in the league and they would've won isn't exactly saying "Anybody". Its not saying he was irreplaceable, but its not saying he was easily replaceable either. Kobe at this point gets a lot of credit for those 3 titles. If he didn't, he wouldn't be nearly as highly regarded as he is today. Quit crying about it.

Umm, Shaq was past his prime. Shaq was past his prime a year or two before he even left LA. At the time he won a title with the Heat, he was 34 years old and in his 14th season in the league. What player at 34 years old in their 14th season was in their prime? What exactly are you trying to argue? That the only reason that Shaq had an overall decline between 97-04 on the Lakers and 05-11 on the Heat, Cavs, Suns, and Celtics was that he wasn't playing with Kobe anymore?

And how did that one title make him look stupid? You said it yourself that his bread and butter i.e. his prime was with the Lakers. So why should we have expected him to accomplish just as much or more with the Heat? And wouldn't that idiotic logic apply to Kobe as well? He ran Shaq out of town and "only" won 2 titles, which is less then what he did with Shaq.

Keeping repeating the same played out "party line" hot garbage all you want cuz it doesn't help you in any way. Just proves what's already obvious that you clearly have an agenda against Kobe. Shaq asked the Lakers to trade him simply cuz he didn't want to defer to Kobe. Simple as that. Kobe didn't run anybody anywhere, so just stop.

Funny how when he got to Miami, he seemed to have no problem deferring to Wade, though. That one title after leaving the Lakers makes Shaq look like a fool cuz he left to prove that he could start another dynasty with another team, without Kobe. And he didn't even come close. Shaq turned himself into a pathetic ring chaser, desperately trying to piggyback his way to another title to still try and prove he didn't need Kobe. He failed miserably with that. I just love how you're talking in circles now, desperately trying to continue with a FAILED argument. Kobe won 2 titles without Shaq....so....what's your point? According to people like you, he's supposedly nothing special, and supposedly only won cuz he had Shaq. Kobe winning after Shaq left proved yet again, them winning had nothing to do with Shaq alone. It took BOTH of them, therfore BOTH get credit not just one. Which again destoys your failed argument even more.