80's MVP's vs 00's MVP's

[jalbert009]

80's Line up:
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird/Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

00's Line up:
Lebron James/Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant/Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan/Dirk Nowitzki
Shaquile O'neal

I have the 80's MVP's winning this if it were a 7 game series. 80's in 7!

(Edit: Okay I have changed the roster a bit.)

[MaxFly]

Shaq, having won his MVP in 2000, should be included in place of D. Rose.

Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James/Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan/Kevin Garnett
Shaq

[Sarcastic]

Give me the team with Jordan.

[t-rex]

80's Line up:
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Julius Erving
Larry Bird
Moses Malone

00's Line up:
Steve Nash/Derrick Rose
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett/Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan


Magic over Nash/Rose
Jordan over Kobe (This is close)
Erving/Bird over James/Garnett/Nowitzki (Could go either way 50-50)
Duncan over Malone

IF Shaq is replaced for Rose. I would put Shaq ahead of Duncan. Magic of course is far greater than Nash.

[LastEpisode]

That's so stupid, Rose shouldn't be included in the 00's era..

[MaxFly]

I would take the 00's team.

I'd have LeBron play the point forward and field a line up of...

LeBron James/Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnet/Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan
Shaq

That lineup wins a 7 game series consistently. A lot of size, significant speed, great defense, great offense.

[pauk]

80s MVPs are waaaay to undersized compared to 00s guys.... Shaq/Duncan/KG against Bird/Moses... :oldlol:

Lebron would also obviously play PG because of that Magic Johnson matchup... can forget Rose/Nash (trust me, those dudes would be just posted up and manhandled by Magic)...

it would look more like:

PG - Lebron
SG - Kobe
SF - Nowitzki/Garnett (yep prime KG could very much easily dominate SF)
PF - Garnett/Duncan
C - Shaq

[Sarcastic]

80s MVPs are waaaay to undersized compared to 00s guys.... Shaq/Duncan/KG against Bird/Moses... :oldlol:

Lebron would also obviously play PG because of that Magic Johnson matchup... can forget Rose/Nash (trust me, those dudes would be just posted up and manhandled by Magic)...

it would look more like:

PG - Lebron
SG - Kobe
SF - Nowitzki/Garnett (yep prime KG could very much easily dominate SF)
PF - Garnett/Duncan
C - Shaq

Just add Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and the 80s are fine. He won MVP in 1980.

[pauk]

Just add Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and the 80s are fine. He won MVP in 1980.

I dont mean just length... more importantly power/strength/body size.... Kareem vs Shaq is like Reggie Miller vs Lebron James/Karl Malone or something... hell even Kevin Durant weighs more than Kareem did lol..

PG - Lebron 260+? lbs ----- Magic 215 lbs
SG - Kobe 205 lbs ----- Jordan 195 lbs
SF - Dirk 237 lbs ----- Julius 200 lbs
PF - Duncan 250 lbs ----- Bird 220 lbs
C - Shaq 325 lbs ----- Kareem 225 lbs

80s guy would be ragdolled.... and believe you me, its not fat the 00s guys are carrying, its pure muscle with pure fury :lol

[Vertical-24]

I dont mean just length... more importantly power/strength/body size....

PG - Lebron 260+? lbs ----- Magic 215 lbs
SG - Kobe 205 lbs ----- Jordan 195 lbs
SF - Dirk 237 lbs ----- Julius 200 lbs
PF - Duncan 250 lbs ----- Bird 220 lbs
C - Shaq 325 lbs ----- Kareem 225 lbs

80s guy would be ragdolled.... :lol

LMFAO They Too Little

[Sarcastic]

I dont mean just length... more importantly power/strength/body size.... Kareem vs Shaq is like Reggie Miller vs Lebron James/Karl Malone or something... hell even Kevin Durant weighs more than Kareem did lol..

PG - Lebron 260+? lbs ----- Magic 215 lbs
SG - Kobe 205 lbs ----- Jordan 195 lbs
SF - Dirk 237 lbs ----- Julius 200 lbs
PF - Duncan 250 lbs ----- Bird 220 lbs
C - Shaq 325 lbs ----- Kareem 225 lbs

80s guy would be ragdolled.... and believe you me, its not fat the 00s guys are carrying, its pure muscle with pure fury :lol

:facepalm

[pauk]

:facepalm

Just saying they are very underpowered and undersized somewhat aswell... dont agree? Whats the deal? Obviously the 80s guys have massive skill to compensate for that tho... it would be very interesting matchup

[MaxFly]

Just add Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and the 80s are fine. He won MVP in 1980.

Agreed...

Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Julius Erving
Larry Bird/Moses Malone
Kareem/Moses Malone

vs

LeBron James/Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett/Dirk Nowitski
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal

The 00's still win, but in a more competitive series.

[MaxFly]

80s guy would be ragdolled.... and believe you me, its not fat the 00s guys are carrying, its pure muscle with pure fury :lol

:biggums:

[chips93]

I dont mean just length... more importantly power/strength/body size.... Kareem vs Shaq is like Reggie Miller vs Lebron James/Karl Malone or something... hell even Kevin Durant weighs more than Kareem did lol..

PG - Lebron 260+? lbs ----- Magic 215 lbs
SG - Kobe 205 lbs ----- Jordan 195 lbs
SF - Dirk 237 lbs ----- Julius 200 lbs
PF - Duncan 250 lbs ----- Bird 220 lbs
C - Shaq 325 lbs ----- Kareem 225 lbs

80s guy would be ragdolled.... and believe you me, its not fat the 00s guys are carrying, its pure muscle with pure fury :lol

:facepalm @ thinking that dirk could guard Dr.J

[Rekindled]

Agreed...

Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Julius Erving
Larry Bird/Moses Malone
Kareem/Moses Malone

vs

LeBron James/Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett/Dirk Nowitski
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal

The 00's still win, but in a more competitive series.

wtf is this.

it should be

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Moses
Kareem

[Champ]

Switch the lineup:

Move Malone to PF, Bird to SF, and bring the Doctor off the bench and the 80s squad mops the floor - especially on the offensive end.

1 - Magic > Lebron
2 - MJ > Kobe
3 - Bird > Nowitski
4 - Moses = Duncan
5 - KAJ (post-prime) < Shaq


You can have all the brawn in the world, but most things being equal, skill and IQ trumps brute strength on the court -- this is basketball, not weightlifting.

[MaxFly]

Switch the lineup:

Move Malone to PF, Bird to SF, and bring the Doctor off the bench and the 80s squad mops the floor - especially on the offensive end.

1 - Magic > Lebron
2 - MJ > Kobe
3 - Bird > Nowitski
4 - Moses = Duncan
5 - KAJ (post-prime) < Shaq


You can have all the brawn in the world, but most things being equal, skill and IQ trumps brute strength on the court -- this is basketball, not weightlifting.

I wouldn't start Dirk. I'd start KG with Dirk coming off the bench. A front court of KG, Duncan and Shaq is simply too much. Magic can't guard LeBron, but I can see Lebron doing a decent job on Magic. 80s Jordan vs Bryant is negligible. This isn't 90s Jordan. The 00's take this.

Incidentally, we're leaving out Iverson... SMH @ the OP including Nash and omitting Iverson.

[Sarcastic]

00s have no way to stop Magic, Jordan, and Bird, let alone Kareem's skyhook. If you want to make it a running game, the 80s with Magic on the break and Jordan on the wing would be unstoppable. Trying to use Lebron as the PG would be a fail as well for the 00s. It would just turn into Lebron-ball and everyone just standing around.

[jalbert009]

Incidentally, we're leaving out Iverson... SMH @ the OP including Nash and omitting Iverson.

Fixed Roster. My bad! I still believe 80's win this. Kareem would be unstoppable with his skyhook! :rockon:

[pauk]

:facepalm @ thinking that dirk could guard Dr.J

:facepalm @ thinking that Dr.J could guard Dirk.... he would be either posting him up all the way down to the basket and laying it in or simply just facing up and doing practice jumpshots or even freethrow type of shots right over him.... Dr. J would be blowing by him offensively tho... so its a tie there...

[Sarcastic]

80s have 4 players who are arguably top 6 all time. 00s have only 1 guy that can make top 6 all time. And no one is even discussing how much of an advantage it is to have peak 1980s Jordan on the team. He was unstoppable in those days.

[Champ]

I wouldn't start Dirk. I'd start KG with Dirk coming off the bench. A front court of KG, Duncan and Shaq is simply too much. Magic can't guard LeBron, but I can see Lebron doing a decent job on Magic. 80s Jordan vs Bryant is negligible. This isn't 90s Jordan. The 00's take this.

Incidentally, we're leaving out Iverson... SMH @ the OP including Nash and omitting Iverson.

KG, Duncan, and Shaq "simply too much" for Bird, Moses and Kareem?

Bullocks.

And a late-80s, MVP-caliber Jordan would handle Kobe just fine.

But you summed up the real problem with this comparison in you sentence about Magic and Lebron. Your right, Magic would have his hands full guarding Lebron, while Lebron may be able to limit Magic's scoring.

But you can't compare these two in a linear, one-on-one fashion when discussing the better team. Magic wouldn't have to score here (or Bird, for that matter) to still dominate offensively against his particular match up.

Essentially, this comparison places two of the best playmakers in the history of the game setting up the game's greatest player on the same team, not to mention your bail out guy is the game's all-time leading scoring with the game's all-time unstoppable shot. Then you add in one of greatest offensive rebounders/inside bangers in history to clean up the mess.

The 80s team is more skilled, more team-oriented, and more clutch - enough so to offset slight deficiencies in strength and athleticism.

[pauk]

The biggest mismatch in 00s teams favor would be Shaq-Kareem and Lebron-Magic... Shaq would humiliate Kareem... and Lebron would do the same to Magic... Magic has absolutely zero chance against defending Lebron, with that bad defense and lankier/less athletic body Lebron would be able to just troll Magic...... and we all know how well Lebrons defense is, Magic would be no trouble whatsoever... infact i think Lebron would be the best defensive matchup on Magic in NBA history, he is bigger, stronger, faster, quicker and the defensive IQ is marvelous....

[Champ]

80s have 3 players who are arguably top 6 all time. 00s have only 1 guy that can make top 6 all time. And no one is even discussing how much of an advantage it is to have peak 1980s Jordan on the team. He was unstoppable in those days.

You can argue the 80s team has 4 of the top 6 all-time.

[Whoah10115]

The 80's three best players are the best players on the court. And they could compliment each other well enough. So, regardless of how anyone wants to look at this, the 80's would win.




And when doing a decade, it really should be from 0-1. I don't think it should be 79-80 and 99-00.



Either way, Kareem and Shaq are close to a wash and Duncan takes Moses (they match up either at PF or if Shaq and Kareem don't make the teams).


If no Shaq:


C: Duncan
PF: Garnett
SF: Lebron
SG: Kobe
PG: Nash


No Kareem:


C: Malone
PF: Bird
SF: Erving
SG: Michael
PG: Magic




The 80's would have no depth, as those are the only guys who won (and Kareem if you count 79-80, in which case Malone and Bird move down and Erving comes off).


The advantage the 00's have is that no one is out of position, whereas the 80's will play Bird at the 4. But he did enough of that. The real advantage for the 00's is that they're much better defensively.




But the 80's have this.

[Sarcastic]

You can argue the 80s team has 4 of the top 6 all-time.

Correct. I fixed it. :cheers:

[Champ]

The biggest mismatch in 00s teams favor would be Shaq-Kareem and Lebron-Magic... Shaq would humiliate Kareem... and Lebron would do the same to Magic... Magic has absolutely zero chance against defending Lebron, with that bad defense and smaller/less athletic body Lebron would be able to just troll Magic...... and we all know how well Lebrons defense is, Magic would be no trouble whatsoever... infact i think Lebron would be the best defensive matchup on Magic in NBA history, he is bigger, stronger, faster, quicker and the defensive IQ is marvelous....

Yes, given his marvelous defensive IQ, I'm sure Lebron is a good enough defender to limit Magic's playmaking ability.:roll:

[Sarcastic]

The biggest mismatch in 00s teams favor would be Shaq-Kareem and Lebron-Magic... Shaq would humiliate Kareem... and Lebron would do the same to Magic... Magic has absolutely zero chance against defending Lebron, with that bad defense and lankier/less athletic body Lebron would be able to just troll Magic...... and we all know how well Lebrons defense is, Magic would be no trouble whatsoever... infact i think Lebron would be the best defensive matchup on Magic in NBA history, he is bigger, stronger, faster, quicker and the defensive IQ is marvelous....

You've never watched Magic play.

[pauk]

i am honestly trying my very best not to be biased here or something...

Lebron is 6'9-260 and jumps higher, is faster, is stronger, is quicker... can shut down anybody from Derrick Rose to Gasol/Dwight Howard.....

Magic would be more limited by Lebron than anybody could have limited Magic in NBA history....

Think about it... you would just lie to yourself if you think Lebron would not be able to just... sorry but, TOY with Magic... Magic has not EVER faced such a unique specimen in his career....

and yes.. i have watched Magic play... :rolleyes:

[Whoah10115]

The biggest mismatch in 00s teams favor would be Shaq-Kareem and Lebron-Magic... Shaq would humiliate Kareem... and Lebron would do the same to Magic... Magic has absolutely zero chance against defending Lebron, with that bad defense and lankier/less athletic body Lebron would be able to just troll Magic...... and we all know how well Lebrons defense is, Magic would be no trouble whatsoever... infact i think Lebron would be the best defensive matchup on Magic in NBA history, he is bigger, stronger, faster, quicker and the defensive IQ is marvelous....




Listen, there is nothing to discuss. There is no such thing as guarding Magic Johnson. Lebron is 100% not as good and that's what it is.



Stop Magic from scoring...so the best passer in the history of basketball is gonna be feeding everyone else?



No, the 00's don't have a shot.




Besides, Shaq embarrassing Kareem is taking it way too far. When Shaq plays against great players, the refs allow fewer elbows to the face.

[Sarcastic]

i am honestly trying my very best not to be biased here or something...

Lebron is 6'9-260 and jumps higher, is faster, is stronger, is quicker... can shut down anybody from Derrick Rose to Gasol/Dwight Howard.....

Magic would be more limited by Lebron than anybody could have limited Magic in NBA history....

Think about it... you would just lie to yourself if you think Lebron would not be able to just... toy with Magic...

He might be able to stop Magic from scoring, but he's not stopping him from making pin point passes to the correct option.

[chips93]

defensively

pippen >>> lebron

magic would be just fine

[pauk]

He might be able to stop Magic from scoring, but he's not stopping him from making pin point passes to the correct option.

He would limit that to.. Magic would be to busy most of the time worrying about not turning the ball over, worrying about his ballsecurity/ballhandling as Lebron fullcourt presses him and makes him spin and turn left and right for his dear life....

If you watched the 1991 Finals... Pippen on Magic... you will know what i mean...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Noel8421/pippen_magic_1991.jpg

Lebron will make Magic think twice about ever playing Point-Guard again as a slow 6'9 guy when he is guarding you.... and god that HIGH dribble Magic had.... Lebron would be deflecting/poking the ball 24-7....

[-23-]

He would limit that to.. Magic would be to busy most of the time worrying about not turning the ball over, worrying about his ballsecurity/ballhandling as Lebron fullcourt presses him and makes him spin and turn left and right for his dear life....

If you watched the 1991 Finals... Pippen on Magic... you will know what i mean...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Noel8421/pippen_magic_1991.jpg

Lebron will make Magic think twice about ever playing Point-Guard again as a slow 6'9 guy when he is guarding you....


You're comparing pippen, an all time great defender with Lebron? :biggums:

[chips93]

pippen slowing magic in the finals is a myth

magic did just fine with pippen on him, he would have no problems with lebron

lebron cant pressure the ball full court, certainly not against magic

[TheMan]

Gimme the team with GOAT.
80s FTW

[Sarcastic]

He would limit that to.. Magic would be to busy most of the time worrying about not turning the ball over, worrying about his ballsecurity/ballhandling as Lebron fullcourt presses him and makes him spin and turn left and right for his dear life....

If you watched the 1991 Finals... Pippen on Magic... you will know what i mean...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Noel8421/pippen_magic_1991.jpg

Lebron will make Magic think twice about ever playing Point-Guard again as a slow 6'9 guy when he is guarding you.... and god that HIGH dribble Magic had.... Lebron would be deflecting/poking the ball 24-7....

Magic had like double digit assists in every game, including 20 in the final game. The reason the Lakers lost was that the Bulls were just better, and the Lakers didn't have Kareem as a scoring option. Give Magic Johnson scoring options like Jordan, and Bird in his prime, and he is virtually unstoppable. On top of that, he was 31 at that time and at the end of his prime.

[Sarcastic]

pippen slowing magic in the finals is a myth

magic did just fine with pippen on him, he would have no problems with lebron

lebron cant pressure the ball full court, certainly not against magic

This is absolutely true. Magic had a phenomenal series, it's just that the Lakers were starting Divac at center instead of Kareem.

[pauk]

Magic had like double digit assists in every game, including 20 in the final game. The reason the Lakers lost was that the Bulls were just better, and the Lakers didn't have Kareem as a scoring option. Give Magic Johnson scoring options like Jordan, and Bird in his prime, and he is virtually unstoppable. On top of that, he was 31 at that time and at the end of his prime.

Pippen was not on him all the time, he was mostly busy worrying about James Worthy... defending Magic he traded it with a mismatch caused by James Worthy now instead.... but the times he was on Magic he significantly slowed him down...

like seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbjBJy6AWQA

If you watched the series, Pippen deflected/poked and stole the ball away from Magic more than he would like and made his job as tough as ever.. he averaged also 5 turnovers that series... Magic was not able to ragdoll him in the post either... Magics game was limited to only PASSING when Pippen was on him...

[TheMan]

He would limit that to.. Magic would be to busy most of the time worrying about not turning the ball over, worrying about his ballsecurity/ballhandling as Lebron fullcourt presses him and makes him spin and turn left and right for his dear life....

If you watched the 1991 Finals... Pippen on Magic... you will know what i mean...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Noel8421/pippen_magic_1991.jpg

Lebron will make Magic think twice about ever playing Point-Guard again as a slow 6'9 guy when he is guarding you.... and god that HIGH dribble Magic had.... Lebron would be deflecting/poking the ball 24-7....

This is is just embarrassing, obviously you never watched Prime Magic, LeBron isn't clowining Magic, GTFO:facepalm

[Champ]

i am honestly trying my very best not to be biased here or something...

Lebron is 6'9-260 and jumps higher, is faster, is stronger, is quicker... can shut down anybody from Derrick Rose to Gasol/Dwight Howard.....

Magic would be more limited by Lebron than anybody could have limited Magic in NBA history....

Think about it... you would just lie to yourself if you think Lebron would not be able to just... toy with Magic...

OK, trying to respect your honest opinion here, but...

Comparing Rose or Gasol or Howard to Magic is ludicrous. Magic is one of the most complete offensive players in history. In order to shut him down, even a great defender would have to address multiple strengths at the same time.

Generally speaking, it can't be done. If you shut down his shot, he will carve you up with his passing, if you play the pass he will shoot; if you challenge him, he will penetrate and dish, or be smart enough to run off of screens and then shoot or dish; he will make you dizzy on the break by rebounding and then taking off -- as fast as Lebron is, a basketball in flight is faster, especially coming from the hands of someone like Magic.

Do you see where I'm going with this? This is why truly complete players like Magic or Bird could never be completely shut down -- by anyone. Instead, they would dog and bate their opponents by emphasizing the many elements of their game depending on the situation. You shut down their shot, fine, they will pass, and vice versa. They didn't care about scoring, but winning.

You rarely saw them pulling the isolation crap you see today when it was at the expense of their team. You might see it occasionally when the game was on the line, but not when it would disrupt the flow of ball movement and fundamental team offense. Watch the 80s Celtics or Lakers move the ball on offense, and then watch a Miami Heat game and you'll see the difference.

They also hustled, banged, and led (esp. in the clutch) -- all areas where Lebron has come under fire in the past.

Back to the discussion. I really think the Magic/Lebron matchup is a big advantage for the 80s squad -- especially with regards to the point position.

[Champ]

He would limit that to.. Magic would be to busy most of the time worrying about not turning the ball over, worrying about his ballsecurity/ballhandling as Lebron fullcourt presses him and makes him spin and turn left and right for his dear life....

If you watched the 1991 Finals... Pippen on Magic... you will know what i mean...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Noel8421/pippen_magic_1991.jpg

Lebron will make Magic think twice about ever playing Point-Guard again as a slow 6'9 guy when he is guarding you.... and god that HIGH dribble Magic had.... Lebron would be deflecting/poking the ball 24-7....

You do realize the the "high dribble" that Magic, Isiah, and so many other great guards had back in the day was because players weren't allowed to "palm" the basketball.

Before Jordan, Iverson, and the rest, it used to be a real rule. Seriously.

[stallionaire]

Honestly, I respect 80s ball but that 00s team looks way too nasty...

[Whoah10115]

Pauk, get over it.




Lebron is a great defender. And Pippen is better. Big ole period.



No one is stopping Magic. Magic is A BETTER PLAYER THAN LEBRON JAMES. PERIOD. No question. Not an argument. Not even close. Magic Johnson is better and no one can stop Magic. I agree, Lebron might be the best cover for him, but who cares?




And who cares if you "respect 80's ball"? The three best players on the court are, undoubtedly, Magic, Michael, Larry. And Michael is the most athletic.




The 80's team would kill the 00's team. Shaq would not get away with shit against Kareem, if they make it. And even tho I think Bucks Kareem is better, THAT (including playoffs) is as good as Kareem has ever played. He was a monster in the playoffs. He actually stepped up all playoffs. Shaq is not going to destroy Kareem. That's a wash.



The three best players are the 80's players...get real people.

[TheBluest]

The biggest mismatch in 00s teams favor would be Shaq-Kareem and Lebron-Magic... Shaq would humiliate Kareem... and Lebron would do the same to Magic... Magic has absolutely zero chance against defending Lebron, with that bad defense and lankier/less athletic body Lebron would be able to just troll Magic...... and we all know how well Lebrons defense is, Magic would be no trouble whatsoever... infact i think Lebron would be the best defensive matchup on Magic in NBA history, he is bigger, stronger, faster, quicker and the defensive IQ is marvelous....


What happened when Shaq squared up against Hakeem?

You realize Magic played Center in his first Chip run with the Lakers and demolished his opponent in every single phase of the game

You realize unlike Lebron when Magic has any hint of thoroughbreds IT'S SHOWTIME gets no better than what he has in the OP.

[Whoah10115]

What happened when Shaq squared up against Hakeem?

You realize Magic played Center in his first Chip run with the Lakers and demolished his opponent in every single phase of the game

You realize unlike Lebron when Magic has any hint of thoroughbreds IT'S SHOWTIME gets no better than what he has in the OP.



He's way in the hole right now. No player in the history of basketball will ever dominate or troll Magic Johnson. EVER.

[LakersReign]

pauk is just yet another example of exactly why people hate delusional Lebron fanboys. They CLEARLY know nothing about basketball, and when proven wrong, WITH ACTUAL FACTS, refuse to shut the hell up. Like going on and on and on and on, changes the fact that they not only don't have a valid point, But also changed the obvious fact that they're clueless as to what they're talking about. But yet they still sit there, pretending to know more about basketball then everybody else.:facepalm

[PTB Fan]

I'd take the 80's MVP in a close one.

[TheBluest]

He's way in the hole right now. No player in the history of basketball will ever dominate or troll Magic Johnson. EVER.


He also failed to look at how the 80s MVP lineup is essentially a lineup of guys who want nothing more than to destroy you and every single last one of them are clutch. They were all great at everything and their level of play rose during post-season like tremendously

[donald_trump]

You're comparing pippen, an all time great defender with Lebron? :biggums:

lebron is a great defender. he might have even been better than pippen had he played in the same era.

[donald_trump]

pauk is just yet another example of exactly why people hate delusional Lebron fanboys. They CLEARLY know nothing about basketball, and when proven wrong, WITH ACTUAL FACTS, refuse to shut the hell up. Like going on and on and on and on, changes the fact that they not only don't have a valid point, But also changed the obvious fact that they're clueless as to what they're talking about. But yet they still sit there, pretending to know more about basketball then everybody else.:facepalm

what actual facts can anyone state in a hypothetical match up trying to pick the winner?

idiot. :oldlol:

[chazzy]

pauk :lol

[LakersReign]

what actual facts can anyone state in a hypothetical match up trying to pick the winner?

idiot. :oldlol:

...says this idiot(trump) who just said that Lebron would be a better defender in the 80's than Pippen. Keeping in mind this is the same Lebron who's supposedly the best player in the league. Supposedly head and shoulders above everyone else. Who just added flopping to his skillset, instead of a wicked post game. You do realize there was no flopping in the 80's...right? Just gotta love it how he claims there's no facts in a hypothetical matchup, but then says something stupid like that, trying to make it sound like it's a fact:hammerhead:

Yet another clear cut example of sheer Lebronyte fanboy stupidity:facepalm

[TheMan]

Magic>LeBron

One guy looks to pass and control the pace of the game and come crunch time in the biggest stage, he wants the ball in his hands.

Other guy looks to pass and control the pace of the game and come crunch time in the biggest stage, he treats the ball like a hot patato and is nowhere to be seen.:biggums:

[andgar923]

80s MVPs are waaaay to undersized compared to 00s guys.... Shaq/Duncan/KG against Bird/Moses... :oldlol:

Lebron would also obviously play PG because of that Magic Johnson matchup... can forget Rose/Nash (trust me, those dudes would be just posted up and manhandled by Magic)...

it would look more like:

PG - Lebron
SG - Kobe
SF - Nowitzki/Garnett (yep prime KG could very much easily dominate SF)
PF - Garnett/Duncan
C - Shaq

True... they're bigger and stronger.

But too bad that they still can't play.

With Bron and Kobe hogging the ball and jacking up 3 pt shots, how do you expect them to win?

Remember.... the ball moves faster than the player. The 80s undersized players would be running pick and rolls, screens, cutting, passing the ball left and right. Shaq won't be able to stop Kareem and vice versa, but is Shaq gonna be getting many touches? maybe if Bron has the ball, and maybe if Kobe feels like passing that possession.

The 2k era's iso one on one style of play will ultimately fail.

The 2K era's mental breakdowns will fail.

KG's tough guy act will get exposed as just that... an 'act'.

The 2K era's most consistent and potent weapon will get under utilized.... Duncan.


And oh yeah.....

If the game gets close, who's gonna stop this mufuca?

http://marshallmatlock.com/wp-content/gallery/2011-12-05-jordan-throws-down-newman-wins-a-staring-contest-manolo-costa-rolls-his-own/thumbs/thumbs_michael%20jordan%20dunk%20contest,%20the%20 always%20gentleman.jpg

[shady6121]

Lebron would choke in the 4th quarter in each game, thus the 80's win by default. :lol

[TheMan]

Lebron would choke in the 4th quarter in each game, thus the 80's win by default. :lol
MJ was a notorious trash talker, can you imagine the mindfvck MJ would serve up to LBJ in crunch time? MJ would BEG to cover LBJ, Bron would be shook :lol

It would make the time Terry called Bron a bitch in the Finals look tame.

[Fudge]

I dont mean just length... more importantly power/strength/body size.... Kareem vs Shaq is like Reggie Miller vs Lebron James/Karl Malone or something... hell even Kevin Durant weighs more than Kareem did lol..

PG - Lebron 260+? lbs ----- Magic 215 lbs
SG - Kobe 205 lbs ----- Jordan 195 lbs
SF - Dirk 237 lbs ----- Julius 200 lbs
PF - Duncan 250 lbs ----- Bird 220 lbs
C - Shaq 325 lbs ----- Kareem 225 lbs

80s guy would be ragdolled.... and believe you me, its not fat the 00s guys are carrying, its pure muscle with pure fury :lol
:roll:

[inclinerator]

im sorry but 00s would take this because of match up problems, lebron matches well against magic, kobe would hold his own against jodan, etc but shaq would have a clear advantage over kareem, this is a prime shaq not a 3rd year one against hakeem, arguably one of the strongest of all time, he'd seal kareem every single possession.

[TheMan]

im sorry but 00s would take this because of match up problems, lebron matches well against magic, kobe would hold his own against jodan, etc but shaq would have a clear advantage over kareem, this is a prime shaq not a 3rd year one against hakeem, arguably one of the strongest of all time, he'd seal kareem every single possession.
Kobe is a good defender but you overrate him, MJ would get what he wants, KB on his own would not stop MJ.


Kareem could hit jumpers and sky hooks, Shaq hated covering centers who could hit jumpers (Ewing, Hakeem, Smits), you think KAJ would be dumb enough to try and post up Shaq? Hell no, he would make Shaq get out on the perrimeter and let Malone or Bird post up.

[Doranku]

You don't even need the MVPs of the 80's to beat the 00's MVPs if LeBron is on the team. Just need a team capable of keeping it close through three and then pulling away in the 4th once it's 5 on 4.

[Whoah10115]

I'm gonna say this very simply. You're stupid if you pick the 00's. It's not a discussion.



Who's better, Magic or Lebron? Who's better, Michael or Lebron? Who's better, Larry or Lebron?



Change Lebron to Kobe. Change Lebron to Shaq. Change Lebron to KG. Change Lebron to Duncan. The answer is always the guy on the left.



Shaq or Kareem. If you think Shaq would destroy Kareem, then you got too used to Shaq playing in the early 00's. Just as one could pick Shaq, one could pick Kareem.




Duncan or Malone? Let's not act like Moses Malone isn't one of the best players of all time. But this is in Duncan's favor.




Throw out Shaq and Kareem. Bring in Dr. J and Steve Nash or Allen Iverson Dirk Nowitzki. Whatever. Lebron is an advantage over Erving, I think. I don't know that Dirk is. Duncan is still better than Moses.




And guess what, Michael, Larry, Magic...still there. And guess what those three players have in common? If any one of them were playing today then he would be the best player in basketball.




And they're smarter. And they're clutch as hell.






This is an argument. If you think the 00's would win, you're wrong, so shut the **** up.

[lakers_forever]

The biggest mismatch in 00s teams favor would be Shaq-Kareem and Lebron-Magic... Shaq would humiliate Kareem... and Lebron would do the same to Magic... Magic has absolutely zero chance against defending Lebron, with that bad defense and lankier/less athletic body Lebron would be able to just troll Magic...... and we all know how well Lebrons defense is, Magic would be no trouble whatsoever... infact i think Lebron would be the best defensive matchup on Magic in NBA history, he is bigger, stronger, faster, quicker and the defensive IQ is marvelous....



i am honestly trying my very best not to be biased here or something...

Lebron is 6'9-260 and jumps higher, is faster, is stronger, is quicker... can shut down anybody from Derrick Rose to Gasol/Dwight Howard.....

Magic would be more limited by Lebron than anybody could have limited Magic in NBA history....

Think about it... you would just lie to yourself if you think Lebron would not be able to just... sorry but, TOY with Magic... Magic has not EVER faced such a unique specimen in his career....

and yes.. i have watched Magic play... :rolleyes:


:roll: :oldlol: :lol

No one is stopping Magic from doing his thing. In fact, no single player can stop an all time great like Magic (or Jordan, Kobe. Bird, Lebron, whatever). It takes a team effort to stop players of that level.
And let's not pretend Lebron is a better defender than Pippen or Jordan. What a joke!

Give me team with Magic, Bird, Jordan and Kareem (4 of the 6 greatest players in the history of the game).
I refuse to believe a team with Bird and Jordan can lose a series.

[lilgodfather1]

Look at the defense that '00's team has. LeBron is better than any defender on the 80's team, Duncan is better than any player on the 80's team, Garnett is better than any player on the 80's team, Kobe is better than anyone not named MJ on the 80's team. I see this matchup in a different light though.

I think LeBron checks MJ instead of Magic with Kobe taking Magic. Why waste LeBron's defense on Magic who with all of those great scorers is not going to try and score, where as MJ with all of those great scorers is going to try an OUT score everyone. That plays right into the hand of the 00's team. LeBron will be guarding MJ who is 3-4 inches shorter than LeBron is, and at least 60 pounds lighter. This is not finished product MJ, this is MJ with an alright post up game, an alright mid range game, and super athletecism.

Kobe is guarding Magic who is not trying to score, so he can just play the passing lanes and try to get steals for the greatest fastbreak player in NBA history.

Shaq dominates Kareem, and with LeBron passing him the ball he gets easy dunk after easy dunk. This one is inarguable.

Duncan in the mean time is not called the greatest PF of all time for no reason. He dominates Moses on both ends.

Garnett vs. Bird is a very good matchup. I think that Garnett can do a good job of trying to lock down Bird as he is one of the GOAT defenders, and offensively he can carry his own weight, obviously.

The key of this matchup is how LeBron does guarding MJ and setting up his team. He is not going to lock him down, but if he can make MJ drive into Duncan in the paint then the shots will be altered drastically. If LeBron gets a hand up on MJ's jumpers the extra height is going to alter the shots as well.

The 00's team is just better because you can put LeBron on any of the 1-3 if they get hot and try to cool them down. Defense wins series.

Edit: Basically to sum up my thoughts if you can get LeBron to buy into being the PG of the team, and lock down defender instead of the first option offensively then you win this series in 4.

[Odinn]

Is this about just mvp - regular season performances? Or can we include playoffs?

I mean Duncan's 2002 MVP was better than his 2003. KG's 2004 MVP and LeBron's 2009 MVP are better than Duncan's 2003 MVP. But I prefer 2003 Duncan (included playoffs).

How is that working?

[bdreason]

80's MVP's would dominate. Too much bball IQ, skill, and killer instinct to be denied.

[Whoah10115]

Lebron and Duncan are not as good as Michael is, defensively. KG, I can handle. But no, not the other two.




And again, who gives a shit.




There is no argument. The 80's win. Period.

[TheMan]

Look at the defense that '00's team has. LeBron is better than any defender on the 80's team, Duncan is better than any player on the 80's team, Garnett is better than any player on the 80's team, Kobe is better than anyone not named MJ on the 80's team. I see this matchup in a different light though.

I think LeBron checks MJ instead of Magic with Kobe taking Magic. Why waste LeBron's defense on Magic who with all of those great scorers is not going to try and score, where as MJ with all of those great scorers is going to try an OUT score everyone. That plays right into the hand of the 00's team. LeBron will be guarding MJ who is 3-4 inches shorter than LeBron is, and at least 60 pounds lighter. This is not finished product MJ, this is MJ with an alright post up game, an alright mid range game, and super athletecism.

Kobe is guarding Magic who is not trying to score, so he can just play the passing lanes and try to get steals for the greatest fastbreak player in NBA history.

Shaq dominates Kareem, and with LeBron passing him the ball he gets easy dunk after easy dunk. This one is inarguable.

Duncan in the mean time is not called the greatest PF of all time for no reason. He dominates Moses on both ends.

Garnett vs. Bird is a very good matchup. I think that Garnett can do a good job of trying to lock down Bird as he is one of the GOAT defenders, and offensively he can carry his own weight, obviously.

The key of this matchup is how LeBron does guarding MJ and setting up his team. He is not going to lock him down, but if he can make MJ drive into Duncan in the paint then the shots will be altered drastically. If LeBron gets a hand up on MJ's jumpers the extra height is going to alter the shots as well.

The 00's team is just better because you can put LeBron on any of the 1-3 if they get hot and try to cool them down. Defense wins series.

Edit: Basically to sum up my thoughts if you can get LeBron to buy into being the PG of the team, and lock down defender instead of the first option offensively then you win this series in 4.

Jordan is a better defender than LeBron...

[Asukal]

Just LOL at this thread........ wow, I mean you are putting up 4 arguably top 5 GOATs against the 00's best players? How is that fair? No one in the 00's team can stop 80s Jordan 1v1. You forget how much trouble the Pistons had stopping just this one man let alone add Bird, Magic, and Kareem to the list. Just LOL! :facepalm

[Odinn]

I do not think it's not easy to say 80's. The main difference is PG position.

As for matchups;
2000 Shaq vs. 1980 Kareem ; I'd say equal or slightiest edge to Shaq.
2003 Duncan vs. 1983 Moses ; in Duncan's favor.
2009 LeBron vs. 1986 Bird ; slightiest edge to Bird.
2008 Kobe vs. 1988 Jordan ; clearly Jordan.
1987 Magic vs. 2006 Nash ; the biggest edge.

If we move 2009 LeBron to PG and put 2004 KG against 1986 Bird, it's a lock for game 7.

[lbj23clutch]

A lineup of:

C-Shaq
PF-Duncan
SF-Dirk
SG-Kobe
PG-Bron(to guard Magic)

6th man- KG



This team>80's


00's frontline is superior to 80's frontcourt. LeBron can guard Magic, can't say the same about Magic, as he was never known to be much of a defender. MJ is much better then Kobe, but you gotta remember Kobe is capable of sound lock down defense, so he would make MJ work. Bird>Dirk or KG, nothing else to be said there.


Put KG at center and Duncan at power forward and you have the best defensive front court ever. Put Shaq and Duncan together and you have the most dominant center ever and the best power forward ever.


From a basketball standpoint 00's team>80's. From a career and alltime ranking stand point 80's>00's. But the OP asked who would win from a basketball standpoint if they played each other so I got the 00's all day.

[chips93]

moses is getting no love, he would give timmy a lot of trouble


If we move 2009 LeBron to PG and put 2004 KG against 1986 Bird, it's a lock for game 7.

is kg really that effective as a sf?

i know that he can play sf, but is he really great at sf? all his length, energy, and athleticism, you want that in the paint as mucha s possible imo, grabbing boards, finishing around the rim, protecting the rim on defense.

moving kg to sf, i dont think hes that effective


A lineup of:

C-Shaq
PF-Duncan
SF-Dirk
SG-Kobe
PG-Bron(to guard Magic)

6th man- KG




dirk gets absolutely raped on defese

he cant defend small forwards, let alone bird or Dr.J

he would get lit up

[lbj23clutch]

You don't even need the MVPs of the 80's to beat the 00's MVPs if LeBron is on the team. Just need a team capable of keeping it close through three and then pulling away in the 4th once it's 5 on 4.
LeBron would proudly defer to Kobe and Dirk in the clutch. Plus LeBron will be playing the point, so he wouldn't need to take last second shots with closers like Kobe and Dirk on the team.

[lbj23clutch]

moses is getting no love, he would give timmy a lot of trouble



is kg really that effective as a sf?

i know that he can play sf, but is he really great at sf? all his length, energy, and athleticism, you want that in the paint as mucha s possible imo, grabbing boards, finishing around the rim, protecting the rim on defense.

moving kg to sf, i dont think hes that effective
Put Dirk at small forward, since he can stretch the floor and have KG come off the bench as the 6th man. :bowdown:


Perfect balance.

[andgar923]

People keep making one fundamental mistake over and over. While individual match ups are important, the game is about 'team' play. The new era doesn't know how to play a style that would beat their past predecessors.

The 2k era's iso style would have a hard time to play against the ball movement that the 80s players would play with. It's simply impossible to move faster than the ball when it's being moved from side to side with players cutting and making fast decisions with the ball. Having Bron or Kobe stand at the top of the key going one on one will hurt the 2K MVPs. Duncan would be their most consistent go to player, but I doubt that he'd get enough touches to have enough of an impact.

Kareem alone would be hard to beat or matchup against far more than any matchup the 2K era would bring to the table.

The problem with covering kareem is, there isn't a weak spot for him.

You can diminish Shaq's dominance by making him come out of the paint, double teaming immediately and by simply forcing bad passing angles. Not that he'd be stopped, but you can't do that with Kareem. Go ahead, push him out of the paint I dare the 2K to do so.

The 80s players are smart and willing enough to go down to Kareem as much as it's needed, they'll take advantage of the matchup if every possession is needed.

Point is, 2K era doesn't know how to play the proper 'team' ball necessary to beat the 80s players.

[Whoah10115]

A lineup of:

C-Shaq
PF-Duncan
SF-Dirk
SG-Kobe
PG-Bron(to guard Magic)

6th man- KG



This team>80's


00's frontline is superior to 80's frontcourt. LeBron can guard Magic, can't say the same about Magic, as he was never known to be much of a defender. MJ is much better then Kobe, but you gotta remember Kobe is capable of sound lock down defense, so he would make MJ work. Bird>Dirk or KG, nothing else to be said there.


Put KG at center and Duncan at power forward and you have the best defensive front court ever. Put Shaq and Duncan together and you have the most dominant center ever and the best power forward ever.


From a basketball standpoint 00's team>80's. From a career and alltime ranking stand point 80's>00's. But the OP asked who would win from a basketball standpoint if they played each other so I got the 00's all day..



Given the chance to play Duncan and KG together and you play KG at C. LOL, your vote is invalid.




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[lbj23clutch]

moses is getting no love, he would give timmy a lot of trouble



is kg really that effective as a sf?

i know that he can play sf, but is he really great at sf? all his length, energy, and athleticism, you want that in the paint as mucha s possible imo, grabbing boards, finishing around the rim, protecting the rim on defense.

moving kg to sf, i dont think hes that effective



dirk gets absolutely raped on defese

he cant defend small forwards, let alone bird or Dr.J

he would get lit up
Let's not over exaggerate now. Dirk isn't as bad as his reputation on defense. And this would be true if he were guarding a superior athletic SF like a LeBron or Nique, but Dirk would guard Bird, who isn't a good athlete at all so Dirk would be able to stay in front of him. Bird would still rape him tough, but with Shaq and Duncan/KG as your frontline, it won't matter.

[Odinn]

moses is getting no love, he would give timmy a lot of trouble
Actually, I think difference between two of them is smaller than Jordan-Kobe.


is kg really that effective as a sf?

i know that he can play sf, but is he really great at sf? all his length, energy, and athleticism, you want that in the paint as mucha s possible imo, grabbing boards, finishing around the rim, protecting the rim on defense.

moving kg to sf, i dont think hes that effective
I didn't think how KG would do as a SF. I think his length, rebounding and post-defense would do better than LeBron against Bird. That's why I tend to put him at SF.

[chips93]

Let's not over exaggerate now. Dirk isn't as bad as his reputation on defense. And this would be true if he were guarding a superior athletic SF like a LeBron or Nique, but Dirk would guard Bird, who isn't a good athlete at all so Dirk would be able to stay in front of him. Bird would still rape him tough, but with Shaq and Duncan/KG as your frontline, it won't matter.

well it works both ways, duncan and kg are great help defenders, but they would have to pay lots of attention to their own men, since they are, in their own rights, all-time greats

duncan and kg cant cover up for dirks defense, if they still have to worry about guarding KAJ and moses

[lbj23clutch]

.



Given the chance to play Duncan and KG together and you play KG at C. LOL, your vote is invalid.




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
We gonna act like Boston putting KG at center in the middle of this year didn't cause the Celtics to become an elite defensive team once again? DPOY candidate every year. It don't matter who you put as center between Duncan and KG, both play DPOY defense and both have played both positions in stretches in their careers.


:facepalm

[chips93]

I didn't think how KG would do as a SF. I think his length, rebounding and post-defense would do better than LeBron against Bird. That's why I tend to put him at SF.

on defense, i agree, it could work fine

but offensively, hes a monster in the paint, and merely a good jumper shooter out on the perimeter

[MaxFly]

This reminds me of a discussion we had several years ago where All-Time franchises were compared and many posters asserted that the All-Time Bulls team would beat both the All-Time Celtics and Lakers teams simply because of Jordan. The rationale was that no team would ever be able to beat a Jordan lead team, not even a team comprised of Magic, Bryant, Worthy, Kareem and Shaq... why... because it's Jordan. Posters just "refused to believe" that Jordan would allow his team to lose.

I understand the temptation to say, "These are 4 of the top 6 best players of all time, no way they would lose" but stop for a second and look at this lineup.

LeBron
Bryant
Garnett
Duncan
Shaq

Who would you double off of to go help with Shaq? How are you going to beat this team on the boards? The 80s team has weak links defensively at PG and SF with both Larry and Magic being good team defenders, but very average man defenders. I think people are stuck on the legendary status of the 80s players and are failing to look at the match up practically.

[Sarcastic]

A lineup of:

C-Shaq
PF-Duncan
SF-Dirk
SG-Kobe
PG-Bron(to guard Magic)

6th man- KG



This team>80's


00's frontline is superior to 80's frontcourt. LeBron can guard Magic, can't say the same about Magic, as he was never known to be much of a defender. MJ is much better then Kobe, but you gotta remember Kobe is capable of sound lock down defense, so he would make MJ work. Bird>Dirk or KG, nothing else to be said there.


Put KG at center and Duncan at power forward and you have the best defensive front court ever. Put Shaq and Duncan together and you have the most dominant center ever and the best power forward ever.


From a basketball standpoint 00's team>80's. From a career and alltime ranking stand point 80's>00's. But the OP asked who would win from a basketball standpoint if they played each other so I got the 00's all day.


:lol @ putting single coverage on 1980s Jordan. He put 30ppg on triple teams.

[andgar923]

This reminds me of a discussion we had several years ago where All-Time franchises were compared and many posters asserted that the All-Time Bulls team would beat both the All-Time Celtics and Lakers teams simply because of Jordan. The rationale was that no team would ever be able to beat a Jordan lead team, not even a team comprised of Magic, Bryant, Worthy, Kareem and Shaq... why... because it's Jordan. Posters just "refused to believe" that Jordan would allow his team to lose.

I understand the temptation to say, "These are 4 of the top 6 best players of all time, no way they would lose" but stop for a second and look at this lineup.

LeBron
Bryant
Garnett
Duncan
Shaq

Who would you double off of to go help with Shaq? How are you going to beat this team on the boards? The 80s team has weak links defensively at PG and SF with both Larry and Magic being good team defenders, but very average man defenders. I think people are stuck on the legendary status of the 80s players and are failing to look at the match up practically.

This is what the average play would be like offensively for the 2K team:

Bron at the top of the key... dribble...dribble... dribble... dribble pass to Kobe, dribble... dribble... dribble... dribble.


Here's what an average play for the 80s would look like:

Magic dribbles passes to Bird, Bird pump fakes passes to Kareem, Kareem with the sky hook.

See the difference?

The 80s team wouldn't be double teaming as much as you make it out to be cause they won't have too. The biggest Shaq stopper is the 2K team itself.

Bron is a willing passer, but takes too long to pass.
Kobe isn't gonna pass because he'd be out to prove a point.

And ummm... there's a reason why MJ's team is considered a favorite to win, regardless of the matchup. Even all time greats have mentioned that whatever the scenario is, MJ is the 'X' factor. We've all witnessed it time and time again.

Again... I want everybody to read this carefully....

MJ is a combination of Bron, Kobe and Wade.

How the f*ck is that gonna be stopped? by whom?

OLD MJ schooled KG one of the best defenders of all time.
OLD MJ was scoring on Kobe, hitting jumpers and pull ups.
OLD Mj was driving past Duncan for dunks, hitting soft js on him

[MaxFly]

I'm gonna say this very simply. You're stupid if you pick the 00's. It's not a discussion.



Who's better, Magic or Lebron?

This is where the problem arises. I think everyone with the exception of a few extreme Heat fans would agree that Magic is ranked higher all time than LeBron, but consider this, and be honest... who's the better defender of the two? Who's the better scorer? Magic is certainly the better passer, but we also have teams full of players who can create for themselves and can play off of each other, so it's not as big of an advantage in this setting.

[andgar923]

This is where the problem arises. I think everyone with the exception of a few extreme Heat fans would agree that Magic is ranked higher all time than LeBron, but consider this, and be honest... who's the better defender of the two? Who's the better scorer? Magic is certainly the better passer, but we also have teams full of players who can create for themselves and can play off of each other, so it's not as big of an advantage in this setting.

Who has more rings?

[Scholar]

80's Line up:
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird/Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

00's Line up:
Lebron James/Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant/Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan/Dirk Nowitzki
Shaquile O'neal

I have the 80's MVP's winning this if it were a 7 game series. 80's in 7!

(Edit: Okay I have changed the roster a bit.)

Buzz kill time!!! :kobe:

If it's a 7 game series, the '80s players will get killed simply based off of fatigue. They only have a 6 man roster facing an 8 man roster in the 2000s MVPs.

- LBJ, KB24 & KG could switch between SF roles
- KB24, AI & LBJ could switch between SG roles
- Nash, LBJ & AI could switch between PG roles
- Dirk, KG, Timmy & LBJ could switch between PF roles
- Shaq, KG & Timmy could switch between C roles

What does this mean? At any given time, they could rest any of the players and have other playing multiple roles.




I'm kind of annoyed with myself for taking the time to think this through, but **** it. It was worth being the buzz killer.

[lbj23clutch]

Who has more rings?
Who cares, LeBron still the better defender, much better scorer, and superior athlete. KAJ has more rings then Shaq, but I'm sure any sane person would rather start a franchise with Shaq. And rightfully so.

[Sarcastic]

This is where the problem arises. I think everyone with the exception of a few extreme Heat fans would agree that Magic is ranked higher all time than LeBron, but consider this, and be honest... who's the better defender of the two? Who's the better scorer? Magic is certainly the better passer, but we also have teams full of players who can create for themselves and can play off of each other, so it's not as big of an advantage in this setting.

That doesn't mean a damn thing for these hypothetical teams. Magic wouldn't even have to shoot 1 shot, and he would have a bigger impact than Lebron.

Lebron isn't even 1/3 the passer that Magic was.

Lebron can't do this shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Dm0lZTqCc&feature=related

It's not Lebron's fault though. No one else can.

[lbj23clutch]

This reminds me of a discussion we had several years ago where All-Time franchises were compared and many posters asserted that the All-Time Bulls team would beat both the All-Time Celtics and Lakers teams simply because of Jordan. The rationale was that no team would ever be able to beat a Jordan lead team, not even a team comprised of Magic, Bryant, Worthy, Kareem and Shaq... why... because it's Jordan. Posters just "refused to believe" that Jordan would allow his team to lose.

I understand the temptation to say, "These are 4 of the top 6 best players of all time, no way they would lose" but stop for a second and look at this lineup.

LeBron
Bryant
Garnett
Duncan
Shaq

Who would you double off of to go help with Shaq? How are you going to beat this team on the boards? The 80s team has weak links defensively at PG and SF with both Larry and Magic being good team defenders, but very average man defenders. I think people are stuck on the legendary status of the 80s players and are failing to look at the match up practically.
Pretty much nailed it right there. :applause:

[andgar923]

How are the 2K era gonna stop this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayAz8EpuNUM&feature=related

Shaq can't.

Garnett can't.
Duncan can't.

Go ahead, send a double team, he'll just shoot over them with ease, or pass it.

All of this talk about Shaq is great and all, but he's limited when compared to Kareem. The 80s team would cut passing angles and probably let Shaq and Kareem go one on one, it aint as if he'll get many touches anyway.

Once again... the best way for the 2K era to win, would be Duncan.

Have Nash and Duncan run the pick and roll to death would be their best chance. Hell... I wouldn't even have Kobe in the starting lineup to be honest.

I'd go with Nash, Bron, KG, Duncan and Shaq, because they need a true pg that makes quick decisions, can penetrate, and shoot.

With either Kobe or Bron at the point the offensive flow won't be the same, the tempo won't be the same, the passing won't be the same. The ball won't get moved around enough, Duncan, KG and Shaq won't get enough touches, the isolation won't take advantage of the 2K era's athletic advantage. And it's not as if Magic is such a scoring threat from the perimeter that you need to blanket him anyway, so having Bron on him won't matter much.

[lbj23clutch]

That doesn't mean a damn thing for these hypothetical teams. Magic wouldn't even have to shoot 1 shot, and he would have a bigger impact than Lebron.

Lebron isn't even 1/3 the passer that Magic was.

Lebron can't do this shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Dm0lZTqCc&feature=related

It's not Lebron's fault though. No one else can.
:facepalm



The discrepancy of LeBron's superior defense, scoring ability, and athletic ability is MUCH BIGGER compared to the discrepancy of Magic's passing skills compared to LeBron. And sure let's just pretend LeBron isn't one of the best passers in the league right now and the 2nd greatest passer that's not a point guard behind Bird.


Of course Magic is ranked much higher in the alltime lists, but you gotta think about it strictly from their abilities on the court.

[andgar923]

Who cares, LeBron still the better defender, much better scorer, and superior athlete. KAJ has more rings then Shaq, but I'm sure any sane person would rather start a franchise with Shaq. And rightfully so.

Are you stupid?

There's a reason why Magic has 3 Finals MVP awards and why he has 5 rings.

And I'm sure most experts would split their decision between Shaq and Kareem. I'd rather go with Kareem since he'll give me more options.

[andgar923]

:facepalm



The discrepancy of LeBron's superior defense, scoring ability, and athletic ability is MUCH BIGGER compared to the discrepancy of Magic's passing skills compared to LeBron. And sure let's just pretend LeBron isn't one of the best passers in the league right now and the 2nd greatest passer that's not a point guard behind Bird.


Of course Magic is ranked much higher in the alltime lists, but you gotta think about it strictly from their abilities on the court.

and you have to think about the fact that they're not playing 'one on one' out there.

Shit... Magic would abuse Bron in the post all day.

Give Magic handcheckin and he'll be able to limit Bron's drives. Magic is even capable of winning MVP by scoring 4 points the entire game.

[lbj23clutch]

How are the 2K era gonna stop this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayAz8EpuNUM&feature=related

Shaq can't.

Garnett can't.
Duncan can't.

Go ahead, send a double team, he'll just shoot over them with ease, or pass it.

All of this talk about Shaq is great and all, but he's limited when compared to Kareem. The 80s team would cut passing angles and probably let Shaq and Kareem go one on one, it aint as if he'll get many touches anyway.

Once again... the best way for the 2K era to win, would be Duncan.

Have Nash and Duncan run the pick and roll to death would be their best chance. Hell... I wouldn't even have Kobe in the starting lineup to be honest.

I'd go with Nash, Bron, KG, Duncan and Shaq, because they need a true pg that makes quick decisions, can penetrate, and shoot.

With either Kobe or Bron at the point the offensive flow won't be the same, the tempo won't be the same, the passing won't be the same. The ball won't get moved around enough, Duncan, KG and Shaq won't get enough touches, the isolation won't take advantage of the 2K era's athletic advantage. And it's not as if Magic is such a scoring threat from the perimeter that you need to blanket him anyway, so having Bron on him won't matter much.
How will KAJ or anyone on the 80's team stop this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ergVIhdiFK4


We gonna act like the league didn't implement the 3 second rule to slow down Shaq?

[Whoah10115]

This is where the problem arises. I think everyone with the exception of a few extreme Heat fans would agree that Magic is ranked higher all time than LeBron, but consider this, and be honest... who's the better defender of the two? Who's the better scorer? Magic is certainly the better passer, but we also have teams full of players who can create for themselves and can play off of each other, so it's not as big of an advantage in this setting.




Lebron is a much better defender. But he's still the better player. The only advantage would be Duncan. What's the advantage that Shaq has over Kareem? Lebron would have an advantage over Dr. J but that's not enough to compensate for the 80's team to have the three best players on the court.



The three best players...there's no chance for the 00's team. Matchup problems...Bird is not a normal player. He'll do whatever it takes. Then Michael. And Magic...Magic with those weapons wouldn't need to score until it was time for him to show that he could if he wanted to.

[Sarcastic]

:facepalm



The discrepancy of LeBron's superior defense, scoring ability, and athletic ability is MUCH BIGGER compared to the discrepancy of Magic's passing skills compared to LeBron. And sure let's just pretend LeBron isn't one of the best passers in the league right now and the 2nd greatest passer that's not a point guard behind Bird.


Of course Magic is ranked much higher in the alltime lists, but you gotta think about it strictly from their abilities on the court.

We're not playing 1v1 match ups here. Lebron's superior defense and scoring won't even matter, because he is not stopping Magic from making his passes, and if he tries to control the game with "Lebron-ball", then he's taking hurting his teams actual strengths.

[andgar923]

How will KAJ or anyone on the 80's team stop this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ergVIhdiFK4


We gonna act like the league didn't implement the 3 second rule to slow down Shaq?

You do know that he's only a threat IN the paint right?

:facepalm

And ever heard of 'hack-a-Shaq'?

[lilgodfather1]

LeBron James is a better player than Magic Johnson in every area except passing ability. Magic is undoubtedly the best passer of all time, but LeBron is right up there in the top 10. LeBron is the best non PG passer of all time, as proven by his apg in Cleveland. LeBron is a better scorer, defender, rebounder (yeah Magic almost averaged 10 a game, with 20 more possessions a game to get them in though). If LeBron played at the pace Magic did his stats would be at least 32/12/11.

As for defending Jordan this is not prime MJ we are talking about. This is unfinished worse than LeBron by far MJ (although every version of MJ was anyways). Again Jordan may have been a better scorer, but again the pace was much faster. LeBron playing at the pace the bulls played at would. average more points, assists, and rebounds. The only thing MJ would out do LeBron in would be points, and that slight margain wouldn't make up for LeBron being better in every single category.

Shaq would destroy Kareem, Duncan would destroy Moses, and LeBron would Kobe rape Magic.

[andgar923]

LeBron James is a better player than Magic Johnson in every area except passing ability. Magic is undoubtedly the best passer of all time, but LeBron is right up there in the top 10. LeBron is the best non PG passer of all time, as proven by his apg in Cleveland. LeBron is a better scorer, defender, rebounder (yeah Magic almost averaged 10 a game, with 20 more possessions a game to get them in though). If LeBron played at the pace Magic did his stats would be at least 32/12/11.

As for defending Jordan this is not prime MJ we are talking about. This is unfinished worse than LeBron by far MJ (although every version of MJ was anyways). Again Jordan may have been a better scorer, but again the pace was much faster. LeBron playing at the pace the bulls played at would. average more points, assists, and rebounds. The only thing MJ would out do LeBron in would be points, and that slight margain wouldn't make up for LeBron being better in every single category.

Shaq would destroy Kareem, Duncan would destroy Moses, and LeBron would Kobe rape Magic.

Idiot

[MaxFly]

This is what the average play would be like offensively for the 2K team:

Bron at the top of the key... dribble...dribble... dribble... dribble pass to Kobe, dribble... dribble... dribble... dribble.


Ah, because LeBron is known to have horrible court vision and an inability to pass when playing with other talented players, and especially talented bigs like Garnett, Duncan and Shaq. Also, there's no way he would be able to drive or get around Magic because even though Magic wasn't a great man defender in his time, he'd suddenly be able to stymie LeBron and force him to dribble on the perimeter until the clock expires. Right...


Here's what an average play for the 80s would look like:

Magic dribbles passes to Bird, Bird pump fakes passes to Kareem, Kareem with the sky hook.

See the difference?

Lol, you made up a laughable scenario turned assertion as your main argument. I'm not sure even you believe what you typed out.



The 80s team wouldn't be double teaming as much as you make it out to be cause they won't have too. The biggest Shaq stopper is the 2K team itself.

Bron is a willing passer, but takes too long to pass.
Kobe isn't gonna pass because he'd be out to prove a point.

So when LeBron gets past Magic (which he would, consistently), he's going to have trouble finding Shaq, Duncan, Garnett or Bryant... because those players with whom he is playing, all of which have won NBA championships (Shaq with 4, Duncan with 4, Bryant with 5), don't know how to play team basketball. That's your assertion... :facepalm


And ummm... there's a reason why MJ's team is considered a favorite to win, regardless of the matchup. Even all time greats have mentioned that whatever the scenario is, MJ is the 'X' factor. We've all witnessed it time and time again.

We're talking 80s Jordan here. The one who was swept out of the playoffs by the Celtics twice in a row. 5-15 in his first 4 playoff appearances. Not even the guys on this MVP team were considering him a "favorite to win" back then. They were the ones beating him... especially Bird.



OLD MJ was scoring on Kobe, hitting jumpers and pull ups.

Lol, OLD MJ got 55 points hung on his team by that player he was hitting jumpers and pull ups on. OLD MJ wanted nothing to do with Bryant in that game. Let's not talk about OLD MJ.

[Leviathon1121]

LeBron James is a better player than Magic Johnson in every area except passing ability. Magic is undoubtedly the best passer of all time, but LeBron is right up there in the top 10. LeBron is the best non PG passer of all time, as proven by his apg in Cleveland. LeBron is a better scorer, defender, rebounder (yeah Magic almost averaged 10 a game, with 20 more possessions a game to get them in though). If LeBron played at the pace Magic did his stats would be at least 32/12/11.

As for defending Jordan this is not prime MJ we are talking about. This is unfinished worse than LeBron by far MJ (although every version of MJ was anyways). Again Jordan may have been a better scorer, but again the pace was much faster. LeBron playing at the pace the bulls played at would. average more points, assists, and rebounds. The only thing MJ would out do LeBron in would be points, and that slight margain wouldn't make up for LeBron being better in every single category.

Shaq would destroy Kareem, Duncan would destroy Moses, and LeBron would Kobe rape Magic.

Sorry, Lebron has a history of bringing nothing to the table on the NBA's biggest stage. This series would have far too much star power and media attention for Lebron to average any more then 15 ppg.

[Sarcastic]

LeBron James is a better player than Magic Johnson in every area except passing ability. Magic is undoubtedly the best passer of all time, but LeBron is right up there in the top 10. LeBron is the best non PG passer of all time, as proven by his apg in Cleveland. LeBron is a better scorer, defender, rebounder (yeah Magic almost averaged 10 a game, with 20 more possessions a game to get them in though). If LeBron played at the pace Magic did his stats would be at least 32/12/11.

As for defending Jordan this is not prime MJ we are talking about. This is unfinished worse than LeBron by far MJ (although every version of MJ was anyways). Again Jordan may have been a better scorer, but again the pace was much faster. LeBron playing at the pace the bulls played at would. average more points, assists, and rebounds. The only thing MJ would out do LeBron in would be points, and that slight margain wouldn't make up for LeBron being better in every single category.

Shaq would destroy Kareem, Duncan would destroy Moses, and LeBron would Kobe rape Magic.

Passing(non PGs):
Pistol Pete >>>>>>>>>>>>Lebron

[MaxFly]

Who has more rings?

Magic by far, but how's that going to help him stop LeBron from getting past him? :confusedshrug:

[G-Funk]

Shaq, having won his MVP in 2000, should be included in place of D. Rose.

Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Garnett/Dirk
Shaq/Duncan


Fixed

[Whoah10115]

LeBron James is a better player than Magic Johnson in every area except passing ability. Magic is undoubtedly the best passer of all time, but LeBron is right up there in the top 10. LeBron is the best non PG passer of all time, as proven by his apg in Cleveland. LeBron is a better scorer, defender, rebounder (yeah Magic almost averaged 10 a game, with 20 more possessions a game to get them in though). If LeBron played at the pace Magic did his stats would be at least 32/12/11.

As for defending Jordan this is not prime MJ we are talking about. This is unfinished worse than LeBron by far MJ (although every version of MJ was anyways). Again Jordan may have been a better scorer, but again the pace was much faster. LeBron playing at the pace the bulls played at would. average more points, assists, and rebounds. The only thing MJ would out do LeBron in would be points, and that slight margain wouldn't make up for LeBron being better in every single category.

Shaq would destroy Kareem, Duncan would destroy Moses, and LeBron would Kobe rape Magic.





Listen, Lebron is probably the best player in the league now. And he's always been a great player. But if he was anything like you were saying he'd have no choice but to have won at least one title by now. And that's not a knock on him. That's me saying you sound such a ****ing stupid idiot that I have to block you. I don't have time to read shit like this. Magic Johnson is the 2nd best player of all-time. Just be quiet, in advance.

[MaxFly]

That doesn't mean a damn thing for these hypothetical teams. Magic wouldn't even have to shoot 1 shot, and he would have a bigger impact than Lebron.

Lebron isn't even 1/3 the passer that Magic was.

Lebron can't do this shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Dm0lZTqCc&feature=related

It's not Lebron's fault though. No one else can.

There are two ends of the court. Magic will be fine offensively, though LeBron will be a handful to score on. With all the fire power he has, you're absolutely right... Magic will be looking to pass. The problem is on the other end of the court where he will have to guard someone who is bigger, stronger and faster than he is. He will have to actually expend energy guarding LeBron. The number of rings you've won don't particularly mean much in that kind of situation.

[MaxFly]

Fixed

No, Steve Nash gets no burn. I'm sorry... especially if we're going to omit Iverson.

LeBron
Bryant
Garnett/Nowitzki
Duncan
Shaq

[Sarcastic]

There are two ends of the court. Magic will be fine offensively, though LeBron will be a handful to score on. With all the fire power he has, you're absolutely right... Magic will be looking to pass. The problem is on the other end of the court where he will have to guard someone who is bigger, stronger and faster than he is. He will have to actually expend energy guarding LeBron. The number of rings you've won don't particularly mean much in that kind of situation.

Magic only had problems with smaller guards. Lebron wouldn't be a problem for him.

[iamgine]

How about 90s eh?

Magic
Jordan
Barkley
Olajuwon
Robinson

Karl Malone off the bench

[donald_trump]

...says this idiot(trump) who just said that Lebron would be a better defender in the 80's than Pippen. Keeping in mind this is the same Lebron who's supposedly the best player in the league. Supposedly head and shoulders above everyone else. Who just added flopping to his skillset, instead of a wicked post game. You do realize there was no flopping in the 80's...right? Just gotta love it how he claims there's no facts in a hypothetical matchup, but then says something stupid like that, trying to make it sound like it's a fact:hammerhead:

Yet another clear cut example of sheer Lebronyte fanboy stupidity:facepalm

flopping didnt exist in the 80's?

You didnt even watch basketball back then... :oldlol: I can give you a nice list of players who were notorious floppers.

[LakersReign]

(yawn):sleeping

[donald_trump]

(yawn):sleeping

naawww. someone got proven wrong. :oldlol:

[LakersReign]

....that Lebron IS NOT a better defender than Pippen?


lebron is a great defender. he might have even been better than pippen had he played in the same era.

Keeping in mind, the only people who agree with you on that is delusional Lebron fanboys like pauk, who NOBODY on here takes seriously anyways. You're damn right you(trump) just got proven wrong:applause:

OOPS!!!!:facepalm

Sure seemed like a good idea at the time...didn't it?:lol

[inclinerator]

You do know that he's only a threat IN the paint right?

:facepalm

And ever heard of 'hack-a-Shaq'?
hack a shaq would foul out the 80s mvps

[donald_trump]

....that Lebron IS NOT a better defender than Pippen?



Keeping in mind, the only people who agree with you on that is delusional Lebron fanboys like pauk, who NOBODY on here takes seriously anyways. You're damn right you(trump) just got proven wrong:applause:

OOPS!!!!:facepalm

Sure seemed like a good idea at the time...didn't it?:lol

its stupid to assume, a quicker, stronger, faster player with better lateral movement might have been a better defender with the addition of hand checking?

[Bigsmoke]

the 2000's because of their size and athleticism.

MJ would go wild but thats not the MJ in 1991-1993

[Bigsmoke]

How about 90s eh?

Magic
Jordan
Barkley
Olajuwon
Robinson

Karl Malone off the bench

this one wins.

[Bigsmoke]

A lineup of:

C-Shaq
PF-Duncan
SF-Dirk
SG-Kobe
PG-Bron(to guard Magic)

6th man- KG



This team>80's


00's frontline is superior to 80's frontcourt. LeBron can guard Magic, can't say the same about Magic, as he was never known to be much of a defender. MJ is much better then Kobe, but you gotta remember Kobe is capable of sound lock down defense, so he would make MJ work. Bird>Dirk or KG, nothing else to be said there.


Put KG at center and Duncan at power forward and you have the best defensive front court ever. Put Shaq and Duncan together and you have the most dominant center ever and the best power forward ever.


From a basketball standpoint 00's team>80's. From a career and alltime ranking stand point 80's>00's. But the OP asked who would win from a basketball standpoint if they played each other so I got the 00's all day.

do u really want Dirk guarding Bird? :lol

replace him with KG ASAP

[Odinn]

2000s;
2009 LeBron - 2008 Kobe - 2004 Garnett - 2003 Duncan - 2000 Shaq

1990s;
1990 Magic - 1991 Jordan - 1993 Barkley - 1997 Malone - 1994 Hakeem

1980s;
1987 Magic - 1988 Jordan - 1986 Bird - 1983 Moses - 1980 Kareem


I tend to make a 1970s team but look at mvps in the '70s;
Kareem, Moses, Walton, McAdoo, Cowens, Reed... It's pretty interesting.:D

[Champ]

LeBron James is a better player than Magic Johnson in every area except passing ability. Magic is undoubtedly the best passer of all time, but LeBron is right up there in the top 10. LeBron is the best non PG passer of all time, as proven by his apg in Cleveland. LeBron is a better scorer, defender, rebounder (yeah Magic almost averaged 10 a game, with 20 more possessions a game to get them in though). If LeBron played at the pace Magic did his stats would be at least 32/12/11.

As for defending Jordan this is not prime MJ we are talking about. This is unfinished worse than LeBron by far MJ (although every version of MJ was anyways). Again Jordan may have been a better scorer, but again the pace was much faster. LeBron playing at the pace the bulls played at would. average more points, assists, and rebounds. The only thing MJ would out do LeBron in would be points, and that slight margain wouldn't make up for LeBron being better in every single category.

Shaq would destroy Kareem, Duncan would destroy Moses, and LeBron would Kobe rape Magic.

Lebron's a better, more inventive passer than this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4

[Champ]

2000s;
2009 LeBron - 2008 Kobe - 2004 Garnett - 2003 Duncan - 2000 Shaq

1990s;
1990 Magic - 1991 Jordan - 1993 Barkley - 1997 Malone - 1994 Hakeem

1980s;
1987 Magic - 1988 Jordan - 1986 Bird - 1983 Moses - 1980 Kareem


I tend to make a 1970s team but look at mvps in the '70s;
Kareem, Moses, Walton, McAdoo, Cowens, Reed... It's pretty interesting.:D

Another way to break this down is by looking at the combined number of career MVP awards for each grouping according to decade, which yields the following numbers.

2000s = 7 combined MVPs

1990s = 12

1980s = 20

1970s = 13

Again, this illustrates the relative dominance of 80s.

[Asukal]

Lebron's a better, more inventive passer than this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4

LOL! :bowdown:

[MaxFly]

Magic only had problems with smaller guards. Lebron wouldn't be a problem for him.

Magic had problems with smaller guards because they were quicker and faster than he was. He would have similar issues with LeBron, the only problem being that LeBron is also bigger and stronger in addition to being faster. The 80's best bet would be to put Jordan on LeBron and hope for the best. Then again, that means that Magic would have to guard Bryant... which would present all sorts of problems for Magic.

[iamgine]

Another way to break this down is by looking at the combined number of career MVP awards for each grouping according to decade, which yields the following numbers.

2000s = 7 combined MVPs

1990s = 12

1980s = 20

1970s = 13

Again, this illustrates the relative dominance of 80s.
I don't think that proves anything.

[Odinn]

Another way to break this down is by looking at the combined number of career MVP awards for each grouping according to decade, which yields the following numbers.

2000s = 7 combined MVPs

1990s = 12

1980s = 20

1970s = 13

Again, this illustrates the relative dominance of 80s.
What an awful comment. Kareem has 5 mvps in the 70s and 1 mvp in the 80s. Jordan has 4 mvps in the 90s and 1 mvp in the 80s.

Was Kareem center of the 80s? No. Moses was.

If Kareem and Jordan played in the 2000s, that would in favor of 2000s. Both of them played in 80s. At maximum they played 3 seasons in 80s which can be said their prime. Yet 11 of those 20 mvps belong to them and 9 of them weren't won in the 80s.

Fail logic.

[Champ]

I don't think that proves anything.

Other than that higher concentration of all-time greats -- as measured by career MVPs awards -- played in the 80s, you're right, it doesn't prove anything.

[MaxFly]

This discussion reminds me of the "Jordan at age 49 would kill LeBron in a 1 on 1 game!" (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238746) discussion we had before the season began. Some of the rationale is just as amusing.

But it's Jordan!
But they have 20 MVPS between themselves!
But Kareem has the sky hook!
But a team full of MVPs wouldn't be able to play team basketball!

[Champ]

What an awful comment. Kareem has 5 mvps in the 70s and 1 mvp in the 80s. Jordan has 4 mvps in the 90s and 1 mvp in the 90s.

Was Kareem center of the 80s? No. Moses was.

If Kareem and Jordan played in the 2000s, that would in favor of 2000s. Both of them played in 80s. At maximum they played 3 seasons in 80s which can be said their prime. Yet 11 of those 20 mvps belong to them and 9 of them weren't won in the 80s.

Fail logic.

That's not the point of the argument.

And by your breakdown, there would be no argument, because obviously each decade would have exact 10 MVP awards.

The point of my argument is illustrated above in response to iamgine's comment. If that line of thinking is too out of the box for you, than by all means feel free to find another way to contribute to this thread.

[Odinn]

That's not the point of the argument.

And by your breakdown, there would be no argument, because obviously each decade would have exact 10 MVP awards.

The point of my argument is illustrated above in response to iamgine's comment. If that line of thinking is too out of the box for you, than by all means feel free to find another way to contribute to this thread.
You're one of the posters who obsessed about 80s. Aren't you?..:facepalm

[Champ]

This discussion reminds me of the "Jordan at age 49 would kill LeBron in a 1 on 1 game!" (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238746) discussion we had before the season began. Some of the rationale is just as amusing.

But it's Jordan!
But they have 20 MVPS between themselves!
But Kareem has the sky hook!
But a team full of MVPs wouldn't be able to play team basketball!

But that's the fun of it. Isn't that why we're all here, to over-analyze this stuff ad nauseum?

Of course, the hope is that we're able to separate the sound from the ridiculous.

[Champ]

You're one of the posters who obsessed about 80s. Aren't you?..:facepalm

Was that the best contribution you could come up with?

Surely, you can do better. :D

[Odinn]

Was that the best contribution you could come up with?

Surely, you can do better. :D
Sorry but you're not worthy for a serios answer.

You can talk about 80s cast had higher winning ratio(9/10, only Erving) ratio than 00s(6/10). Or you can talk about mvp shares, first place votes, top 5 finishes in their own decade. Instead of criticizing them in their span, you tried to glorify 80s with an illogical way.

I can do better. You can not.

[Owl]

That's not the point of the argument.

And by your breakdown, there would be no argument, because obviously each decade would have exact 10 MVP awards.

The point of my argument is illustrated above in response to iamgine's comment. If that line of thinking is too out of the box for you, than by all means feel free to find another way to contribute to this thread.
His point isn't that counting MVP awards given in a decade is good way doing things it is that having been an MVP does not necessarily equate to greatness at a later (or indeed earlier) point in ones career. Would a team of early career Steve Nash, late career AI, 1st year Nowitzki/last year Erving, late career McAdoo and 89 Kareem/mid 90's Moses scare anyone greatly?
Particularly galling was that given the guy had picked a team for each decade (specifying a particular year) you use Kareem's magnificent 70's as a boost not just for the 80's team but for the idea that the 80s was the best decade of basketball.

[MaxFly]

Other than that higher concentration of all-time greats -- as measured by career MVPs awards -- played in the 80s, you're right, it doesn't prove anything.

You're right... we are talking about a high concentration of all time greats, but we're also taking these greats as they were when they won their MVPs. Jordan, in the 80s isn't GOAT Jordan. His playoff record at the end of his MVP season was 5-15. Posters have made the argument that Jordan on this team would lead to an automatic victory, but that certainly wasn't the case at the point in which he won his MVP. It took a few more years for him to become the Jordan that we know.

And again, all the MVPs in the world aren't going to help Magic guard LeBron or help Kareem limit Shaq in the paint. We need to get past the legendary status of these players and look at the actual match ups. Shaq, for instance, would have a 25-50 pound advantage on Kareem, but people seem to believe that Kareem would be able to guard him with no double team.

[Champ]

Sorry but you're not worthy for a serios answer.

You can talk about 80s cast had higher winning ratio(9/10, only Erving) ratio than 00s(6/10). Or you can talk about mvp shares, first place votes, top 5 finishes in their own decade. Instead of criticizing them in their span, you tried to glorify 80s with an illogical way.

I can do better. You can not.

You know, I think you're right.

I can't even understand what you're talking about.

[Champ]

His point isn't that counting MVP awards given in a decade is good way doing things it is that having been an MVP does not necessarily equate to greatness at a later (or indeed earlier) point in ones career. Would a team of early career Steve Nash, late career AI, 1st year Nowitzki/last year Erving, late career McAdoo and 89 Kareem/mid 90's Moses scare anyone greatly?
Particularly galling was that given the guy had picked a team for each decade (specifying a particular year) you use Kareem's magnificent 70's as a boost not just for the 80's team but for the idea that the 80s was the best decade of basketball.

True, but to that end, doesn't Jordan's MVP breakdown hurt the 90s?

In some cases, it goes both ways.

[Champ]

You're right... we are talking about a high concentration of all time greats, but we're also taking these greats as they were when they won their MVPs. Jordan, in the 80s isn't GOAT Jordan. His playoff record at the end of his MVP season was 5-15. Posters have made the argument that Jordan on this team would lead to an automatic victory, but that certainly wasn't the case at the point in which he won his MVP. It took a few more years for him to become the Jordan that we know.

And again, all the MVPs in the world aren't going to help Magic guard LeBron or help Kareem limit Shaq in the paint. We need to get past the legendary status of these players and look at the actual match ups. Shaq, for instance, would have a 25-50 pound advantage on Kareem, but people seem to believe that Kareem would be able to guard him with no double team.

Fair points.

But I think it's equally important to evaluate each player's relative strength within the context of playing team-oriented basketball.

[Odinn]

His point isn't that counting MVP awards given in a decade is good way doing things it is that having been an MVP does not necessarily equate to greatness at a later (or indeed earlier) point in ones career. Would a team of early career Steve Nash, late career AI, 1st year Nowitzki/last year Erving, late career McAdoo and 89 Kareem/mid 90's Moses scare anyone greatly?
Particularly galling was that given the guy had picked a team for each decade (specifying a particular year) you use Kareem's magnificent 70's as a boost not just for the 80's team but for the idea that the 80s was the best decade of basketball.
:cheers: :cheers:

[Champ]

You're right... we are talking about a high concentration of all time greats, but we're also taking these greats as they were when they won their MVPs. Jordan, in the 80s isn't GOAT Jordan. His playoff record at the end of his MVP season was 5-15. Posters have made the argument that Jordan on this team would lead to an automatic victory, but that certainly wasn't the case at the point in which he won his MVP. It took a few more years for him to become the Jordan that we know.

And again, all the MVPs in the world aren't going to help Magic guard LeBron or help Kareem limit Shaq in the paint. We need to get past the legendary status of these players and look at the actual match ups. Shaq, for instance, would have a 25-50 pound advantage on Kareem, but people seem to believe that Kareem would be able to guard him with no double team.

Also, in defense of Jordan's early playoff struggles, he was playing against 80s Eastern Conference competition -- arguably the fiercest in NBA history -- with an undermanned team.

That didn't prevent him from registering some truly historic performances, though.

[TheMan]

Who cares, LeBron still the better defender, much better scorer, and superior athlete. KAJ has more rings then Shaq, but I'm sure any sane person would rather start a franchise with Shaq. And rightfully so.
Prime Shaq or prime KAJ? Can't go wrong with either as Shaq was more dominant for about 5 years (99-2004) but KAJ was the better player for a longer period of years.

[Sarcastic]

So wait, now we're saying Shaq is better than Kareem? :facepalm

[iamgine]

Other than that higher concentration of all-time greats -- as measured by career MVPs awards -- played in the 80s, you're right, it doesn't prove anything.
Doesn't measure dominance at all.

[MaxFly]

Fair points.

But I think it's equally important to evaluate each player's relative strength within the context of playing team-oriented basketball.

I would agree. The 80s team would be more team oriented than the 00s team given the style of play in that era. However, the 00s team is also full of great passers, and even their most unwilling passer, Bryant, was able to properly integrate himself with other great players during Olympic basketball, and actually ended up shining. While the 00s team is more isolation oriented, they're not selfish and incapable of playing team ball and I can certainly see them playing off of each other's strengths.

[Odinn]

So wait, now we're saying Shaq is better than Kareem? :facepalm
This can be said and would not be wrong;
2000 Shaq was arguably better 1980 Kareem.

[TheMan]

So wait, now we're saying Shaq is better than Kareem? :facepalm
lbj23clutch said it, not me...

KAJ>Shaq

[MaxFly]

So wait, now we're saying Shaq is better than Kareem? :facepalm

No, we're saying that 1999-2000 MVP Shaq was better than 1979-1980 MVP Kareem. That Shaq averaged 29.7/13.6. We're also saying that that Shaq outweighed that Kareem by between 25-50 pounds. It's not me saying that Kareem would struggle to contain Shaq... it's not the MVP awards, it's not the All-Time rankings... it's physics. Physics is saying that 1999-2000 MVP Shaq would not be stopped by 1979-1980 MVP Kareem alone.

[TheMan]

This can be said and would not be wrong;
2000 Shaq was arguably better 1980 Kareem.
lbj23clutch stated that you would be insane to not pick Shaq over KAJ if you were gonna start a franchise and since hindsight is 20/20, if you look at career acomplishments and not just what they did in a certain decade, you can't go wrong with either but KAJ was better for a longer amount of years...gimme KAJ if I'm a GM.

[Sarcastic]

So how did 1999 Shaq get shut down by 1999 David Robinson and get swept out of the playoffs? Did Shaq gain 50 pounds between 1999-2000? Are we saying that David Robinson is better than Kareem as well?

[MaxFly]

So how did 1999 Shaq get shut down by 1999 David Robinson and get swept out of the playoffs? Did Shaq gain 50 pounds between 1999-2000? Are we saying that David Robinson is better than Kareem as well?

Shaq came into his own in 1999-2000, and saw his scoring rise by three and a half points, and his rebounding rise by 3 boards. Surely you're not suggesting that Shaq wasn't a markedly better and more dominant player in 2000 than he was the season before.

[Champ]

Doesn't measure dominance at all.

Depends on your point of view.

It was just another way of illustrating that more all-time greats are assembled on the 80s squad than the others.

[Sarcastic]

Shaq came into his own in 1999-2000, and saw his scoring rise by three and a half points, and his rebounding rise by 3 boards. Surely you're not suggesting that Shaq wasn't a markedly better and more dominant player in 2000 than he was the season before.

He wasn't a better player in 2000 than in 1999. He just got a new coach that got him the ball in better positions. He was putting up 29 ppg by his second year in the league.

[MaxFly]

lbj23clutch stated that you would be insane to not pick Shaq over KAJ if you were gonna start a franchise and since hindsight is 20/20, if you look at career acomplishments and not just what they did in a certain decade, you can't go wrong with either but KAJ was better for a longer amount of years...gimme KAJ if I'm a GM.

I'd probably take Kareem as well due to his longevity, though it would be a very difficult decision. I wasn't a big fan of Shaq's work ethic and the "company time" fiasco was a big black eye.

[MaxFly]

He wasn't a better player in 2000 than in 1999. He just got a new coach that got him the ball in better positions. He was putting up 29 ppg by his second year in the league.

It's the most points he had ever averaged for a season and the most rebounds since his rookie year. I believe that was the best and most dominant Shaq we've seen. Let's not forget that Shaq was seeing double teams from David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Robinson didn't hold Shaq to 23.8/13 by himself. Who's going to help Kareem double Shaq? Who are you doubling off of to send an extra man at Shaq?

[Champ]

It's the most points he had ever averaged for a season and the most rebounds since his rookie year. I believe that was the best and most dominant Shaq we've seen. Let's not forget that Shaq was seeing double teams from David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Robinson didn't hold Shaq to 23.8/13 by himself. Who's going to help Kareem double Shaq? Who are you doubling off of to send an extra man at Shaq?

I think both team's would have to address the question of who to double-off of.

In the end, we're looking at an offensively-oriented game, with each player presenting match-up problems for their respective defenders. I feel this benefits the 80s squad because they're better equipped for this style.

If, however, the 00s squad can bog down the 80s squad by creating a more physical, slower-paced game, the results may be different.

[iamgine]

Depends on your point of view.

It was just another way of illustrating that more all-time greats are assembled on the 80s squad than the others.
you said it illustrate dominance, it doesn't.

[Whoah10115]

This is my last post, because this is all dumb.



Kareem had as good a year, beginning to end, as he'd ever had (with the exception of maybe his second season).



That's as well as he played. He stepped up all the way thru. He was a beast in the playoffs and continued to elevate his game. Yes, he had Magic. But Kareem was a beast then and completely comparable to Shaq. That Shaq was special, so I don't care if anyone picks him, but this idea that he would kill Kareem is so beyond stupid. Shaq outweighs everyone. That means nothing. He wouldn't get some of the bullshit calls going his way if he's playing Jabbar.


Regardless, the 3 best players play on the 80's. No one will ever dominate Magic. No one will ever dominate Bird. It's ridiculous. And no one comments on that fact. The 3 best players on the floor are the 80's guys. It's a simple fact.




Magic is the better rebounder (not arguable), the best passer and the best playmaker in the history of basketball. He's got better handles, his "high dribble"...the **** does that mean? No one protected the ball better. You don't take cookies from Magic. Magic was smarter, more efficient, more dominant. His ugly jumpshot was a very good one. His post game is incredible.



What the **** are some of you talking about? I wouldn't write off the 00's. The 80's would beat them. There is no argument. There is no discussion about who is better. I don't care what anyone thinks. It's a fact that those 80's players are better AND they're smarter and better suited to playing with each other. They're more team oriented (on top of being better) and would kill. The 00's are better defenders, but this idea that the 80's would get destroyed. How many people were known to destroy Bird in the 80's? Bird plays defense. 1v1 and terrific team defense and reading of passing lanes and of the game. Magic is a much better defender than people are making it sound. His team defense, his hands, and his ability to play the passing lanes were enough to make him serviceable, at least. He had problems with smaller guys because smaller guys know how to take advantage of being smaller, on the perimeter. The speed and quickness is not his problem.




The 80's are better. Seriously. It's not a question.

[inclinerator]

80s would get rocked
http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2010/02/tyson-uppercut.gif

[TheBluest]

The 80's team would blow the 00's team to Smithereens.

Magic
Jordan
Bird
YMCA Dude
YMCA Dude


^^^^^^^^


And that team still wins 100000000 times out 10 ALL DAY EERYDAY


It's the first 3 that seals the deal no matter which of the other 2 position players you rearrange/rotate/sub out the chairs on the deck of the titanic.


if you never saw them in their prime, in the moment of greatness you're never going to understand and that's okay, it's not your fault it simply wasn't your time then.

The only player on the 00's team that scares me in the slightest giving them a chance is Duncan because he so fundamentally sound but a frontcourt of Duncan/Shaq/Garnett is overkill they wouldn't be able to function properly as talented and dominant as they are, it's imbalanced. Meanwhile the first 3 on the 80's team is like perfection personified position/skill/cohesivewise

[eppelp]

It's hard to say. Especially since we don't know who's coaching either side. While the 80s are better on paper, imo, the 00s have advantages that the right coach could use to turn this thing around. Coaching is criminally underrated in these comparisons (D'Anthony or Pop, that would be like nicht and day), stuff like how he would deal with Kobe hogging the ball, Shaq getting in foul trouble, who guards who, who calls the plays, can he exploit ego problems in the other team, foul trouble, especially with such great players can he get their respect etc.
Another Question: What are the rules? Zone allowed or not, handchecking allowed or not. We need a lot more information to come to an objective (well as much as one can be in this kind of things) conclusion. At least that's my opinion.

[MaxFly]

Regardless, the 3 best players play on the 80's. No one will ever dominate Magic. No one will ever dominate Bird. It's ridiculous. And no one comments on that fact. The 3 best players on the floor are the 80's guys. It's a simple fact.


You've relied heavily on the "3 best players play on the 80s team" line quite a bit. How is Magic's status as ranking higher all time than LeBron going to stop LeBron from getting past him. Magic was an average defender. How is he going to stop a player who is bigger, faster and stronger than he is without a double team? I too agree that Magic is far ahead of LeBron in the all time rankings, but practically speaking, how will that status translate into actually guarding LeBron.

Same with Kareem. Kareem is ranked higher than Shaq as well, but how is he going to stop Shaq by himself without a double team. Shaq outweighs Kareem by quite a bit, and was adept at using his weight and strength to score. Kareem will need help, and then the question becomes who you're willing to double off of to provide that help.

[MaxFly]

The only player on the 00's team that scares me in the slightest giving them a chance is Duncan because he so fundamentally sound but a frontcourt of Duncan/Shaq/Garnett is overkill they wouldn't be able to function properly as talented and dominant as they are, it's imbalanced. Meanwhile the first 3 on the 80's team is like perfection personified position/skill/cohesivewise

Duncan and Garnett have excellent mid-range games in addition to post games, and Garnett moves especially well off the ball. It's actually quite balanced. Defensively, Garnett would give Larry Legend a sizeable challenge with his wingspan, size and speed and we'd see an intimidating twin towers combination with Shaq and Duncan guarding the paint. That front court gives the 00s a clear cut advantage both offensively and defensively.

[FKAri]

The 00's advantage is KG/TD/Shaq. Those 3 will dominate any other frontcourt combo imo. TD's experience playing with DRob helps him here and KG's game is perfect for playing on a stacked team. Probably has potential to be the greatest complimentary player of all time. There is alot of synergy in this frontcourt.

The 80's advantage would be how guys like Bird and Magic can work so well on stacked teams (both due t their playstyle as well as experience)and thus wouldn't experience a major drop off in their games (while pretty much everyone else playing aside from maybe KG would all experience a drop off in performance).

[TheBluest]

It's hard to say. Especially since we don't know who's coaching either side. While the 80s are better on paper, imo, the 00s have advantages that the right coach could use to turn this thing around. Coaching is criminally underrated in these comparisons (D'Anthony or Pop, that would be like nicht and day), stuff like how he would deal with Kobe hogging the ball, Shaq getting in foul trouble, who guards who, who calls the plays, can he exploit ego problems in the other team, foul trouble, especially with such great players can he get their respect etc.

Another Question: What are the rules? Zone allowed or not, handchecking allowed or not. We need a lot more information to come to an objective (well as much as one can be in this kind of things) conclusion. At least that's my opinion.


lol @ D'Anthony:roll: :roll: :roll:

Knick fans used to be so pissed off at me over at RealGM because when WALSHED UP called Mike D'Antoni....Dantonio during the presser when the Knicks hired him.

I ran with it and referred to D'Antoni in every way possible other than his birth given because I despised the hire then. So I would call him multiple names running them together of current/former players and/or entertainers historians/food....


D'Antonio Banderas
Baron D'Antonio Davis
D'Antonio Larry Holmes Kim Hughes Kardashian
Susan B. Carmelo Lucci D'Anthony
Greg Pearl D'Anthony Monroe
Mark D'Anthony
D'AnToney Buster Douglas Olney
D'AnTony Danza(this one really pissed them off)
D'AnToni Tone Tony(this one felt good yeah it felt goo-oood... oh it felt good)
D'AnTony Kendrick Perkins
D'Antonio Spurs
D'AnTony The Lions Tiger and Da Bears
D'AnTony Touch
D'AnTony Pizza
D'AnToney Awards
D'AnTone Loc
D'AnTony Rich My Project
D'AnTony Atlanta Hawk
D'AnTony Orlando Magic Gus Johnson
D'AnTony Ray Carl Charles Parker Lewis Jr(they despised this one too)
D'AnTony Romo
D'AnTony Dejaun Donna Summers Blair
D'AnTony Emmanuel Stewart
D'AnTony Bernard Billy Hopkins King Joel Anthony


I did this in almost every discussion pissed the mods and posters off to high heaven, although there were a few who caught on to this swagger

Anyway back to discussion

I don't think style of defense rules would play a factor either way as both teams have dominant bigs to bust up a zone....

Make Phil Jackson coach of 80s and Pop coach of 00s

[TheBluest]

Duncan and Garnett have excellent mid-range games in addition to post games, and Garnett moves especially well off the ball. It's actually quite balanced. Defensively, Garnett would give Larry Legend a sizeable challenge with his wingspan, size and speed and we'd see an intimidating twin towers combination with Shaq and Duncan guarding the paint. That front court gives the 00s a clear cut advantage both offensively and defensively.

I disagree and mainly it has to do with space. It's why Shaq didn't quite work playing next to Alonzo/Amar'e....Sorry too much can be a bad thing in this case

Garnett would not be able to cover Larry as he was maybe Top 5 off the ball player in nba history. Larry played all over the court

[andgar923]

Duncan and Garnett have excellent mid-range games in addition to post games, and Garnett moves especially well off the ball. It's actually quite balanced. Defensively, Garnett would give Larry Legend a sizeable challenge with his wingspan, size and speed and we'd see an intimidating twin towers combination with Shaq and Duncan guarding the paint. That front court gives the 00s a clear cut advantage both offensively and defensively.

The main thing I agree with you is the KG matchup vs Bird. He'll be the only one that could give him problems, but he still won't stop him. Bird moves without the basketball very effectively, the passing from the 80s is superior in every aspect and it's not close.

Yes Bron can blow by Magic often, but Magic is smart enough to play off him, cut off angles and his defenders are smart enough to know when to switch off. Besides, it aint as if MJ can't switch off on him from time to time.

MJ alone would be a disruptive force that only KG can match.

And as I've stated before, the 2K era's style of play is what hurts them the most. Yes Bron can pass, but he's not that quick at making decisions, seriously have you seen him play? have you seen any of the players from the 2K era play? they tend to dribble for damn near 22 seconds before they make a decsision. Today's era doesn't even know how to run proper pick and rolls on a consistent basis, aside from say Kobe, nobody else can move without the basketball in the 2K era (and even then Kobe isn't that impressive).

The 2K era's game is much more stationary than the 80s style of play, and THIS is what will get the 80s the victory. Did any of you watch how the redeem team got themselves into trouble repeatedly? and this is vs teams and players that are half of what the 80s team is. Can you imagine the damage the 80s team would do to them if it's Magic, Kareem, MJ, Bird and not some Spanish or Greek players?

All this talk about Bron blowing by Magic (it won't be as easy as you make it seem, Magic is smarter and quicker than you give him credit. Magic won't be guarding a 6'3 player you dimwits) but fail to realize that there's nobody that would be able to check MJ. There's nothing that Bron or Kobe would be able to do to stop him, absolutely nothing. Mj at his athletic prime would blow by everybody and dunk on them all. If KG tries to talk shit, we have Bird, Kareem, MJ and Moses that would check him. He aint going up against some soft punks here. Bron wants to come down the lane, he'll get checked time and time again.

Again... the 80s overall ball and constant player movement will get them the victory.

[Champ]

80s would get rocked
http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2010/02/tyson-uppercut.gif

Ironic, in that you're video is of an 80s boxer.

[ronniec]

i am honestly trying my very best not to be biased here or something...

Lebron is 6'9-260 and jumps higher, is faster, is stronger, is quicker... can shut down anybody from Derrick Rose to Gasol/Dwight Howard.....

Magic would be more limited by Lebron than anybody could have limited Magic in NBA history....

Think about it... you would just lie to yourself if you think Lebron would not be able to just... sorry but, TOY with Magic... Magic has not EVER faced such a unique specimen in his career....

and yes.. i have watched Magic play... :rolleyes:

I am trying my best not to say you are a Lebron stun, but too obvious you are a well know Lebron dick rider here.

If Lebron is such a special human species and the best player as you always said here... he had already won with a ring or two with Cleveland, or might have won last year with Miami. He is GOD (in your eyes), right? Supposed no one can shut him down? He could score 34, 40, 50 points every game easily?

As some poster said already, basketball is a team game and not decided by size and speed alone. You kept mentioning his jumping, his size, and his quickness just simply shows how ignorant you are. You could say Lebron has certain size advantage on Magic, but on the same token, Magic has too many tricks on his dribbling and ball handling to keep Lebron in foul trouble when defending him. So why Magic is a no match with Lebron?

Lebron is heavier, stronger, but Magic has a couple of inches advantage, and most importantly, smarter, and could play under pressure. If you want to say Lebron has better basketball IQ than Magic, and handles pressure better than Magic, be my guest.

You are kind of a knowledgable basketball fan to me... and you won't be that annoying if stop licking Lebron's rear end that much.

[TheMan]

Magic>LeBron

That is already a known fact.

[andgar923]

Btw... I know that video footage can be made for any player and edited to make him appear one way or another, but the stats don't lie, and neither does some of the footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Ixy8Uttq0&feature=plcp

This is for those that believe Bird is a disadvantage on defense.

Then we have one of the greatest defenders of all time with Kareem.

And why are we dismissing a 3 time MVP and NBA Finals MVP? including me?

One of the greatest rebounders and tough players ever?

Moses would be trouble for anybody in the 2K team on both ends.

[Cali Syndicate]

Shaq came into his own in 1999-2000, and saw his scoring rise by three and a half points, and his rebounding rise by 3 boards. Surely you're not suggesting that Shaq wasn't a markedly better and more dominant player in 2000 than he was the season before.

Triangle offense.

Shaq's ability from 99 to 00 is the same.

[Bigsmoke]

So how did 1999 Shaq get shut down by 1999 David Robinson and get swept out of the playoffs? Did Shaq gain 50 pounds between 1999-2000? Are we saying that David Robinson is better than Kareem as well?

stop with these lies.

[Bigsmoke]

The main thing I agree with you is the KG matchup vs Bird. He'll be the only one that could give him problems, but he still won't stop him. Bird moves without the basketball very effectively, the passing from the 80s is superior in every aspect and it's not close.

Yes Bron can blow by Magic often, but Magic is smart enough to play off him, cut off angles and his defenders are smart enough to know when to switch off. Besides, it aint as if MJ can't switch off on him from time to time.

MJ alone would be a disruptive force that only KG can match.

And as I've stated before, the 2K era's style of play is what hurts them the most. Yes Bron can pass, but he's not that quick at making decisions, seriously have you seen him play? have you seen any of the players from the 2K era play? they tend to dribble for damn near 22 seconds before they make a decsision. Today's era doesn't even know how to run proper pick and rolls on a consistent basis, aside from say Kobe, nobody else can move without the basketball in the 2K era (and even then Kobe isn't that impressive).

The 2K era's game is much more stationary than the 80s style of play, and THIS is what will get the 80s the victory. Did any of you watch how the redeem team got themselves into trouble repeatedly? and this is vs teams and players that are half of what the 80s team is. Can you imagine the damage the 80s team would do to them if it's Magic, Kareem, MJ, Bird and not some Spanish or Greek players?

All this talk about Bron blowing by Magic (it won't be as easy as you make it seem, Magic is smarter and quicker than you give him credit. Magic won't be guarding a 6'3 player you dimwits) but fail to realize that there's nobody that would be able to check MJ. There's nothing that Bron or Kobe would be able to do to stop him, absolutely nothing. Mj at his athletic prime would blow by everybody and dunk on them all. If KG tries to talk shit, we have Bird, Kareem, MJ and Moses that would check him. He aint going up against some soft punks here. Bron wants to come down the lane, he'll get checked time and time again.

Again... the 80s overall ball and constant player movement will get them the victory.

Iverson coming off the bench would even give Magic nightmares :lol

Bird would get his over KG but KG in his prime wasn't Ben Wallace. KG being faster and taller than Bird can lead to problems to the 80's mvp team.

after thinking about it, MJ and Kareem are the only ones on the 80's team that can play great defense and Kareem was already slowing that. so you got a 32 year old Kareem trying to guard a stonger and faster Shaq, Moses Malone trying to guard better player in Tim Duncan, slow bird defending one of the most athletic 7 footers in history in KG, and slow ass Magic guarding 2009 Lebron who was faster than almost anyone in any position. Not to mention averaging 37ppg against the Magic who was the best defensive team in the NBA and Magic in any season isn't going to stop LeBron. Thats not a good matchup for the 80's AT ALL!!!

but
MJ would destory Kobe though :P

[Sarcastic]

stop with these lies.

They didn't get swept?

[andgar923]

Iverson coming off the bench would even give Magic nightmares :lol

No shit he's 5'10 and Magic is 6'10!!!!

:coleman:

But how will he guard Magic?

Bron won't be able to guard him, maybe KG can give him issues, but not enough to contain him.

Again... for the 2K era to win I'd have Nash, Bron, KG, Duncan and Shaq... better ball movement and KG and Bron's defensive mobility can give the 80s team fits. But even they can't move faster then the ball, the 80s ball movement will prevail at the end.

80s will win with tons of screens and pick and rolls, off the ball movement and passing.

[Bigsmoke]

They didn't get swept?

Shaq got swept penty of times.

The Lakers lost because they were immature and badly outcoached. The same Spurs team won it all so losing to the "best" shouldnt be a knock for shaq.

if you want to go there than why Kareem got "swept" against the Blazers?

[Bigsmoke]

No shit he's 5'10 and Magic is 6'10!!!!

:coleman:

But how will he guard Magic?

Bron won't be able to guard him, maybe KG can give him issues, but not enough to contain him.

Again... for the 2K era to win I'd have Nash, Bron, KG, Duncan and Shaq... better ball movement and KG and Bron's defensive mobility can give the 80s team fits. But even they can't move faster then the ball, the 80s ball movement will prevail at the end.

80s will win with tons of screens and pick and rolls, off the ball movement and passing.

LeBron has a better chance of defending Magic than Magic has guarding Lebron.

same goes for the KG and Bird matchup.


Shaq and Tim Duncan shits on 32 year old Kareem and Moses Malone


the only advantage the 80's team have is that they have MJ and 2 of the top 3 players out on the court which are MJ and Bird. I personally perfer Duncan and Shaq over Magic and Lebron's 2009 season is more impressive than any MVP season Magic had.

[andgar923]

LeBron has a better chance of defending Magic than Magic has guarding Lebron.

same goes for the KG and Bird matchup.


Shaq and Tim Duncan shits on 32 year old Kareem and Moses Malone


the only advantage the 80's team have is that they have MJ and 2 of the top 3 players out on the court which are MJ and Bird. I personally perfer Duncan and Shaq over Magic and Lebron's 2009 season is more impressive than any MVP season Magic had.

Everybody that favors the 2K era is basing this off 'individual' match ups even tho that's not how the 80s played.

I must also remind people how the re-Deam Team struggled in stretches vs inferior teams and even had some very close games vs players that are half as good individually as those from the 80s. Imagine if the 2K era players played vs not just better individual players than those they've faced internationally, but better a better team in general?

And that's my main contention, we've already seen these great modern day players struggle at times vs mediocre players and good team 80s style of play. Hell... we've seen current teams that know how to play team ball play great vs high flying teams. We've even seen old over the hill stars beat teams full of high flying better 'individual' players.

[ronniec]

Everybody that favors the 2K era is basing this off 'individual' match ups even tho that's not how the 80s played.

I must also remind people how the re-Deam Team struggled in stretches vs inferior teams and even had some very close games vs players that are half as good individually as those from the 80s. Imagine if the 2K era players played vs not just better individual players than those they've faced internationally, but better a better team in general?

And that's my main contention, we've already seen these great modern day players struggle at times vs mediocre players and good team 80s style of play. Hell... we've seen current teams that know how to play team ball play great vs high flying teams. We've even seen old over the hill stars beat teams full of high flying better 'individual' players.

People just don't understand... just like they don't understand why Spurs can do good this year. They never understand the concept of team play but only one on one matchup, size and speed.
Like the post I talked to Pauk, on paper Lebron is God, but in reality?

[Big#50]

The team with Shaq/Duncan.

[MaxFly]

I honestly don't see a team with so many unselfish players... especially Duncan and Garnett, struggling to play team basketball. We've seen Bryant play excellent team basketball when surrounded by other superstars. If the 08 Olympic tournament is any indication (where he played with inferior talent to what he would have on this MVP team) he'd have no problem passing the ball, playing within the offense, and capitalizing on his opportunities.

The notion that Bryant and LeBron would dribble on the perimeter for 16 seconds before passing or taking an off balance shot with that level of talent on the team, or that Duncan, Garnett and Shaq would suddenly turn into selfish, isolation players is poor and laughable rationale. Even funnier is that 80s Jordan was considered one of the most selfish players in the league in that era before he had a team that could win. No one, me included, believes that he would struggle to transition into a more team oriented game. Seems to be a double standard.

That 00s team would have great ball rotation and off ball movement given the skill and IQ of their players. Whether or not they can play team basketball or play it well isn't even a discussion. It's a non-starter.

[andgar923]

I honestly don't see a team with so many unselfish players... especially Duncan and Garnett, struggling to play team basketball. We've seen Bryant play excellent team basketball when surrounded by other superstars. If the 08 Olympic tournament is any indication (where he played with inferior talent to what he would have on this MVP team) he'd have no problem passing the ball, playing within the offense, and capitalizing on his opportunities.

The notion that Bryant and LeBron would dribble on the perimeter for 16 seconds before passing or taking an off balance shot with that level of talent on the team, or that Duncan, Garnett and Shaq would suddenly turn into selfish, isolation players is poor and laughable rationale. Even funnier is that 80s Jordan was considered one of the most selfish players in the league in that era before he had a team that could win. No one, me included, believes that he would struggle to transition into a more team oriented game. Seems to be a double standard.

That 00s team would have great ball rotation and off ball movement given the skill and IQ of their players. Whether or not they can play team basketball or play it well isn't even a discussion. It's a non-starter.

So why did they struggle at moments vs international teams which played 80s style of ball?

To lesser players at that.

:confusedshrug:

Again... I'm basing my theory on what I've seen time and time again. Today's style of play is much more perimeter iso oriented, and while Bron is a willing and good passer he takes too long to make decisions at times. Kobe will pass if he's in the mood. Not denying that Duncan and KG aren't unselfish, but they don't handle the ball do they?

As I've mentioned before.... start Nash at the point, make Bron your SG, move KG to the 3, Duncan at the 4 and Shaq at the 5 and we have a ball game.