Why Do Ppl Rank Duncan Over Olajuwon?

[Jotaro Durant]

how can u do it?:confusedshrug:
olajuwon never benefit all coach, staff players duncan did but look at his career and peak..............both these nikkas overrated but how u have duncan over olajuwon:facepalm:

[StateOfMind12]

They look at the accomplishments without looking at the context of it. Olajuwon is ranked 6th of all-time for me while Duncan is ranked either 8th or 9th with Kobe depending on the day for me.

[FKAri]

They look at the accomplishments without looking at the context of it. Olajuwon is ranked 6th of all-time for me while Duncan is ranked either 8th or 9th with Kobe depending on the day for me.

That's kinda high bro.

[Jotaro Durant]

That's kinda high bro.
ronaldo sucks:no:
maradona and pele>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[millwad]

Because they are stupid..
Put TD in the late 80's and early 90's and force him to face prime Barkley, prime Malone and them centers and he would be way less impressive.

[FKAri]

ronaldo sucks:no:
maradona and pele>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"ronaldo sucks" is one of the most profoundly incorrect statements I've ever heard in general.

[midatlantic09]

Olajuwon is the better player, but I think people think more highly of Duncan because he has 4 rings as opposed to Olajuwon's 2 rings.

[LockoutOver11]

maybe because of this whole... he's the greatest pf.... even tho some call him a center.

I've seen duncan his whole career and it seemed in the 2000's his team would sneak in a championship every other year without much glory.

He beat the Knicks without Ewing, the Nets that was basically Kidd working with losers and nobody to guard him, his toughest challenge MY PISTONS:(, and a wack Lebron team..... he did manage to beat the Lakers,,, but I don't like Kobe's game and I'll blame it on him.

his accolades say top 10, but my eyes never did.... spurs fans will rightfully so disagree.

[millwad]

"ronaldo sucks" is one of the most profoundly incorrect statements I've ever heard in general.
He is fat.

[OmniStrife]

He is fat.
He was unstoppable and the stuff legends are made of in his peak though...

[Hittin_Shots]

Soccers gay, your gay.

[Bigsmoke]

Because they are stupid..
Put TD in the late 80's and early 90's and force him to face prime Barkley, prime Malone and them centers and he would be way less impressive.

i'm sure Duncan wouldnt have too much trouble scoring over defense of Barkley.:lol

[millwad]

i'm sure Duncan wouldnt have too much trouble scoring over defense of Barkley.:lol

Fact still remains that he would have a much tougher time in that era.

He'd have to face guys like Moses Malone, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, McHale, Parish, Olajuwon, Ewing, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, David Robinson, Chambers etc..

[Bigsmoke]

Fact still remains that he would have a much tougher time in that era.

He'd have to face guys like Moses Malone, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, McHale, Parish, Olajuwon, Ewing, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, David Robinson, Chambers etc..

Malone, KG, Ben Wallace, Mutombo, Rasheed Wallace, Dirk, Webber, Shaq, Yao Ming, and Gasol arent bad :coleman:

Rasheed and Ben were on the same team when Duncan faced them.

Shaq in his prime is better than everybodh on that list of players u named besides Kareem who was already old when facing Hakeem and maybe Hakeem himself.

Duncan when through Shaq twice to get his ring.

[stephanieg]

Duncan is a less athletic Hakeem.

[L.A. Jazz]

because The Dream played in the 80s and 90s (most poster didnt/couldnt watch NBA back then) and only won when the best player back then was playing baseball. plus Duncan has much more hardware. so it's not that crazy.

[boxclever]

Soccers gay, your gay.
negged

Also, it's 'football'

[ralph_i_el]

Duncan went through shaq twice for rings if i'm not mistaken?

[Odinn]

For the "Hakeem went up against harder competition" argument;


I am sick of the "Hakeem went up against harder competition".

If we say Hakeem's prime was 89-96 and Duncan's prime was 99-08, in those period;

Hakeem had 3 first-round exits, 1 time missed the playoffs.
Notable centers(players) who played against Hakeem;
P. Ewing 1 time
S. O'Neal 1 time
D. Robinson 1 time
S. Kemp 2 times

Duncan had no first-round exit - at least 2nd round (also 58W per season), never missed the playoffs.
Notable PFs(players) who played against Duncan;
S. O'Neal 5 times
A. Stoudemire 4 times
D. Nowitzki 3 times
K. Martin 3 times
K. Garnett 2 times
P. Gasol 2 times
R. Wallace 2 times

Enough.

If you gonna year-by-year, I think Hakeem's 1993-94 and 1994-95 seasons have a legit case to be ranked over Duncan's best year, 2002-03. But acting like "Hakeem and it's not even close" or "Hakeem went up against harder competition" just not realistic.


Again; you are talking about only positions, not games. Duncan spent serious minutes aganist Shaq, both ends of floor. How many minutes Hakeem spent on Barkley or K. Malone?..

Duncan's 2005-06 regular season perfomance worse than his rookie season. Shaq's 1998-99 regular season performance worse than his sophomore year. So? Just coz of 1991-92 you're gonna split Hakeem's prime to 2 parts?

And yes. Duncan's competition > Hakeem's competition.
I forgot to add 2008 playoffs for Shaq. Shaq's team and Duncan's team met 6 times in the playoffs.

S. O'Neal 6 times (5 of them against prime Shaq, and TD guarded&was guarded by Shaq in 3 out of 6 times)
A. Stoudemire 4 times (3 of them against prime Amar'e)
D. Nowitzki 3 times (3 of them against prime Dirk)
K. Martin 3 times (2 of them against prime K-Mart)
K. Garnett 2 times (2 of them against prime KG)
P. Gasol 2 times (1 of them against prime Gasol)
R. Wallace 2 times (1 of them against prime Sheed)

>>>

P. Ewing 1 time (prime)
S. O'Neal 2 times (1 of them against prime Shaq)
D. Robinson 1 time (prime)
S. Kemp 3 times (3 of them against prime Kemp)
R. Parish 1 time (prime)
K. Abdul-Jabbar 1 time (39! year old Kareem)
V. Divac 3 times (1 of them against prime Divac)


Of course millwad is going to respond this but it's already discussed.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165337

[millwad]

Duncan went through shaq twice for rings if i'm not mistaken?


You mean, Robinson went through Shaq twice for rings..:lol

[ZHAKIDD532]

Duncan has 2x as many rings. That is the reason.

[millwad]

For the "Hakeem went up against harder competition" argument;





Of course millwad is going to respond this but it's already discussed.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165337

Because it's nonsense of course, first of all you don't know enough to make a post like that considering that you left out both Parish, Abdul-Jabbar, Eaton (DPOY the year he faced Olajuwon in the playoffs) and Divac.. And then you mention that Shaq faced TD 5 times in the playoffs but you "forgot" that he faced Hakeem twice in the playoffs and we all know that Robinson was the one who took care Shaq most of the time for the Spurs.

And I mean, Rasheed Wallace was at best ranked 14th in the league, Martin is a 1-time all-star, Stoudemire was 20 and 22 years in the first two match-ups in the playoffs vs Duncan. And not only that, 22 year old Stoudemire in '05 had a 41 point game, 37 point game, 34 point game, 31 point game and a 42 point game on Duncan in their series match-up in '05.

I'm not even going to comment Duncan's match-up against the one-time all-star Martin..

Gasol is a great player, but the guy has never even been ranked on the MVP list and only became relevant because he team'd up with Kobe.

He had a close match-up against a 22 and 24 year old Garnett.

Nowitzki was great competition even though he went down in one of the close series against TD.

And again, Duncan vs Shaq was most of the times, Shaq vs Robinson and it doesn't matter how hard you'll try to convince us that the case wasn't like that..

Hakeem still faced the harder competition and especially during the years he won, what was so impressive with Duncan's competition when he won?

[Smoke117]

Because they are idiots.

[rodman91]

People consider Russell over Duncan or Olajuwon.. That's crazier.

[millwad]

Hakeem is easily the better scorer, better shotblocker, better at steals, prime Hakeem was a better rebounder and overall Hakeem had a higher rebounding average to the age of 35 (TD's current age) and overall he's the better offensive player and the better defensive player.

TD is not better..

[thelucifer69]

Tim Duncan is Power Forward.

Hakeem Abdul Olajuwon is Center.

:coleman:

Tim Duncan has better Team achievement.

[ninephive]

4 rings > 2
3 FMVP > 2
2 MVPs > 1
Seasons without winning record: 0 > 4
Missing the playoffs: 0 > 4
Dethroning 3-time champs > Winning when their best player retires (and then losing when he comes back lol)

Just to name a couple, but let's not act like it's obvious. Both players great and arguments can be made either way.

[rodman91]

In GOAT rankings, no doubt Duncan must be higher than Hakeem.

[AlphaWolf24]

They look at the accomplishments without looking at the context of it. Olajuwon is ranked 6th of all-time for me while Duncan is ranked either 8th or 9th with Kobe depending on the day for me.


nice opinion...

the rest of the basketball world disagrees..

[chocolatethunder]

how can u do it?:confusedshrug:
olajuwon never benefit all coach
You might wanna compare Hakeems numbers before Rudy T to his numbers after Rudy T

[LamarOdom]

Because he is better:confusedshrug:

[Odinn]

Because he is better:confusedshrug:
Peak wise; he is not.
1993-95 Hakeem > 2001-03 Duncan

[B]

Duncan is a better player and has had the better career. That's why people rank him above Hakeem. Close but not so close you can rank Hakeem above Duncan, that's for saps who buy into the old school ball is better than new school ball argument. Duncan has had an outstanding career, one of the best ever.

[Shade8780]

Soccers gay, your gay.
It's FOOTBALL!!

[LamarOdom]

negged

Also, it's 'football'

It's FOOTBALL!!

No, in USA it's called soccer dumb fuc*s.

[Shade8780]

No, in USA it's called soccer dumb fuc*s.
We're dumb fuc*s?! See in football or soccer as you call it there, they actually use the ball with their feet. While in american football you have the ball in your hands! And "soccer" was played first!

[B]

We're dumb fuc*s?! See in football or soccer as you call it there, they actually use the ball with their feet. While in american football you have the ball in your hands! And "soccer" was played first!Your feet smell and your nose runs, what's your point? Arguing semantics proves your point how?

[LBJMVP]

We're dumb fuc*s?! See in football or soccer as you call it there, they actually use the ball with their feet. While in american football you have the ball in your hands! And "soccer" was played first!

For all you out there who love to complain when Americans, and certain others, call

[linZoMourning]

[QUOTE=B

[millwad]

[QUOTE=B

[CLTHornets4eva]

We're dumb fuc*s?! See in football or soccer as you call it there, they actually use the ball with their feet. While in american football you have the ball in your hands! And "soccer" was played first!

You should be banned for trying to start that debate on an AMERICAN Basketball forum. TROLL. :no:

[millwad]

4 rings > 2
3 FMVP > 2
2 MVPs > 1
Seasons without winning record: 0 > 4
Missing the playoffs: 0 > 4
Dethroning 3-time champs > Winning when their best player retires (and then losing when he comes back lol)

Just to name a couple, but let's not act like it's obvious. Both players great and arguments can be made either way.

Oh, and some how you missed that Hakeem has 2 DPOYS while Duncan has 0..:applause:

And Hakeem is the leading shotblocker in NBA history (among the counted), Duncan is no where close.

Hakeem is top 8 in steals, Duncan is no where close.

Hakeem is top 10 in scoring, Duncan will never be top 10 in scoring.

Hakeem was both better on defense and offense.

[ninephive]

Oh, and some how you missed that Hakeem has 2 DPOYS while Duncan has 0..:applause:

And Hakeem is the leading shotblocker in NBA history (among the counted), Duncan is no where close.

Hakeem is top 8 in steals, Duncan is no where close.

Hakeem is top 10 in scoring, Duncan will never be top 10 in scoring.

Hakeem was both better on defense and offense.
I was simply answering the OP's question...the reasons "Why People Rank Duncan Over Olajuwon"...not "Why People Rank Olajuwon Over Duncan," which is what you answered.


Duncan was in a weak era, put him in '80's and 90's and he'd be ringless.

And I love your theoretical...here's another one...what if Shaq "retired" in 04 like Jordan did in 94 & 95? Then Duncan's got 5 (including a 3 peat). But yah I'm sure he would have 0 in the 80s or 90s (although one of his WAS in the 90s).

[millwad]

I was simply answering the OP's question...the reasons "Why People Rank Duncan Over Olajuwon"...not "Why People Rank Olajuwon Over Duncan," which is what you answered.


Yes, but 2 DPOY's is still a huge difference from Duncan's 0.



And I love your theoretical...here's another one...what if Shaq "retired" in 04 like Jordan did in 94 & 95? Then Duncan's got 5 (including a 3 peat). But yah I'm sure he would have 0 in the 80s or 90s (although one of his WAS in the 90s).

I love you too. <3

Hakeem faced tougher competition while winning even though Jordan retired.. Duncan first faced the Knicks who were nothing special at all, then the weak Nets, then a fairly good Piston team without any stars and then a LeBron team..

And Olajuwon wasn't just a beast 2 years like some people like to think, even in his 2nd pro season, in '86, he first lead his team easily past the '85 champs Lakers feat. Jabbar, Magic and Worthy and then in the finals he faced a Celtic team feat. Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ and Walton, that's a team of 5 HOF:ers and the Rockets made it to game 6 against probably the greatest team ever.

Duncan played in a weaker era and is not really better than Olajuwon in anything at all other than passing. Hakeem has the edge both on offense and defense.

[StateOfMind12]

Duncan individually did nothing better than Olajuwon except pass better and Olajuwon was no slouch when it came to passing either.

Like I said, those who say Duncan is better than Hakeem just look at their accomplishments and fail to take into context on how and why they got those accomplishments.

There is nothing more annoying than a bunch of people trying to pass their opinion as a fact when they all did was look at a bunch of accomplishments between two players and say the player with more accomplishments was better.

[rodman91]

Always same thing. Hakeem was better but Duncan deserves to be rank better because GOAT rankings is heavily depends on accomplishments. It's not about actual skills,impact or era.

Most of basketball fans can easily see Shaq was better than Russell but he is ranked always lower in goat rankings. Because he had 11 rings & 4 MVPs.

Michael Jordan said Hakeem is 6'9 version of him and put him in all time team.Shaq said he is the only player kicked his butt.

Don't get me wrong.Duncan is one of the greatest and by accomplishments he gotta be ranked higher than Hakeem,Kobe and probably Shaq. But i would take both prime Hakeem & Shaq over Duncan.

Kobe ranked higher for accomplishments as well. Scottie Pippen as well. Even my favorite player Rodman too.

Prime Kemp,Mourning,Webber > Rodman for example. But when you look at 5 championships,GOAT level rebounding and 2 time DPOY.. I haven't seen any list putting those guys above Rodman.

[LamarOdom]

Peak wise; he is not.
1993-95 Hakeem > 2001-03 Duncan

doesn't matter maybe a bit better but Duncans career > Olajuwon.

[Round Mound]

i'm sure Duncan wouldnt have too much trouble scoring over defense of Barkley.:lol

Barkley ages 34-36 vs Duncan ages 21-23 (4 Games in Which Hakeem did not play)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=barklch01

Barkley: 34.5 MGP had 17 PPG (47.2% FG), 11.8 RPG, 2.4 APG, 1.9 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 2.0 TOVs PG and 3.0 PF PG

Duncan: 38.5 MPG had 16.0 PPG (46.4 FG%), 10.0 RPG, 4.0 APG, 0.3 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.3 TOVs PG and 3.6 PFs PG

Barkley would Destroy Duncan when Healthy and Prime and with his Ideal Weight of 260 lbs

[millwad]

doesn't matter maybe a bit better but Duncans career > Olajuwon.

Duncans career is only better because of the era he played in, he was both a worse offensive and defensive player compared to Hakeem. Playing in a weaker era doesn't make you better.. :facepalm

[StateOfMind12]

Always same thing. Hakeem was better but Duncan deserves to be rank better because GOAT rankings is heavily depends on accomplishments. It's not about actual skills,impact or era.
.
Accomplishments do mean something to me but they don't mean that much to me. Championship and Finals MVPs are the most important and the only valued award these days. Every other award is incredibly subjective and also dependent on the era.

I don't think it's correct to punish Hakeem for not being put in such a fortunate situation like Duncan was put in.

Hakeem's career from like 87-92 was essentially wasted. He had a terrible coach in Don Chaney who preferred having Vernon Maxwell hoist up as many or more shots than Hakeem did and before Maxwell came around he preferred having others taking just as many shots as Hakeem did.

The Rockets never ran their offense completely to Hakeem until Rudy T. stepped in as head coach in 1992. In the 1992-1993 season, Hakeem was an MVP candidate that season and many argued that he should have won it. I do feel like Hakeem and MJ should have won the MVP that season opposed to Barkley. Do you really think it was just a big coincidence that Hakeem became an MVP candidate right when Rudy T. came in and ran the offense completely through Hakeem?

It's not Hakeem's fault that he had coaches that essentially held him back for like 5-6 years of his career while Duncan has always been put in such a fortunate situation and has played with the same great coach for his entire career.

Plus, it is not like Duncan's accomplishments completely blow Hakeem's accomplishments out of the water either. Duncan definitely has the advantage there but they are still relatively close despite the fact that Hakeem played in a tougher era, was less fortunate, and so on.

[Round Mound]

doesn't matter maybe a bit better but Duncans career > Olajuwon.

:facepalm :no:

[LamarOdom]

Duncans career is only better because of the era he played in, he was both a worse offensive and defensive player compared to Hakeem. Playing in a weaker era doesn't make you better.. :facepalm

He asked for why he got ranked higher not who is best. He may have had a better peak but career wise Duncan >>>> Hakeem, although I think Duncan as a player is better then Hakeem.

And what makes the 96-2012 worse then Hakeems era?

This was posted earlier by ninephive. DUNCAN >> HAKEEM.


4 rings > 2
3 FMVP > 2
2 MVPs > 1
Seasons without winning record: 0 > 4
Missing the playoffs: 0 > 4
Dethroning 3-time champs > Winning when their best player retires (and then losing when he comes back lol)

Just to name a couple, but let's not act like it's obvious. Both players great and arguments can be made either way.

[ninephive]

Duncans career is only better because of the era he played in, he was both a worse offensive and defensive player compared to Hakeem. Playing in a weaker era doesn't make you better.. :facepalm
Except that in Duncan's era there was this team who had 2 Top 10 Alltime players in their prime on the SAME TEAM at the SAME TIME and Duncan dethroned them. But yah it was weak.

[ninephive]

Barkley ages 34-36 vs Duncan ages 21-23 (4 Games in Which Hakeem did not play)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=barklch01

Barkley: 34.5 MGP had 17 PPG (47.2% FG), 11.8 RPG, 2.4 APG, 1.9 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 2.0 TOVs PG and 3.0 PF PG

Duncan: 38.5 MPG had 16.0 PPG (46.4 FG%), 10.0 RPG, 4.0 APG, 0.3 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.3 TOVs PG and 3.6 PFs PG

Barkley would Destroy Duncan when Healthy and Prime and with his Ideal Weight of 260 lbs
...and if if if if if if. Lol.

What theoretical situation would it have taken for Barkley to win 1 single title? Not going to the Rockets so late? Michael Jordan staying retired? Lol.

[millwad]

Except that in Duncan's era there was this team who had 2 Top 10 Alltime players in their prime on the SAME TEAM at the SAME TIME and Duncan dethroned them. But yah it was weak.

Haha, first of all, that same Laker team destroyed Duncan and the Spurs 2 times during their 3-peat. They had both a sweep vs the Spurs and also an easy 4-1 win against the Spurs in the playoffs.

And that 2002 team was not as good as the previous years and they only managed to win 50 games that season so they were already on downfall.

And yes, it was still a weak era, outside of Kobe and Shaq the Lakers in 2002 they had Fisher, Fox, Horry, Medvedenko, Shaw, Samaki Walker and other scrubs. Beside Kobe and Shaq they were pure garbage.
And Robinson was the one who guarded Shaq, go and give him some love instead.

[Dizzle-2k7]

Duncan is the greatest defensive big man of the modern era, incredibly clutch, 10 straight 50+ win season, 13 all nba defensive teams (most ever), robbed of atleast 2 dpoy.

Great teammate, leader, friend, brother. If he gets #5 he's #2 only behind Jordan. :bowdown:

[linZoMourning]

im sorry but if we are talking full careers even tho duncans isnt over there is no way in hell hakeem was a better defender then duncan. he might of blocked shots better but thats not all of defense. defense is FAR more then blocking shots which duncan is great at and does regularly at the END of games to win the game

[LamarOdom]

Duncan is the greatest defensive big man of the modern era, incredibly clutch, 10 straight 50+ win season, 13 all nba defensive teams (most ever), robbed of atleast 2 dpoy.

Great teammate, leader, friend, brother. If he gets #5 he's #2 only behind Jordan. :bowdown:

1.

[StateOfMind12]

im sorry but if we are talking full careers even tho duncans isnt over there is no way in hell hakeem was a better defender then duncan. he might of blocked shots better but thats not all of defense. defense is FAR more then blocking shots which duncan is great at and does regularly at the END of games to win the game
Hakeem Olajuwon is probably the second greatest defender of all-time behind Bill Russell. I'm not even sure if Duncan is even a top 10 defender of all-time.

I also want to bring up two more points about Duncan.

-Since 2004, Duncan has never averaged more than 34 minutes per game. He had the luxury of rest which more than likely extended his career. This is more than likely due to the fact that his team very talented and stacked and also because his coach did a great job limiting his minutes and helping him take care of his body. This was a major luxury that people ignore about Duncan that he might not have gotten in any other franchise or with any other coach.

-Duncan is known to be an incredibly consistent player but he was actually very inconsistent in his career season by season.

[millwad]

im sorry but if we are talking full careers even tho duncans isnt over there is no way in hell hakeem was a better defender then duncan. he might of blocked shots better but thats not all of defense. defense is FAR more then blocking shots which duncan is great at and does regularly at the END of games to win the game

Hakeem is the leader in blocks, 8 in steals, he got 2 DPOYS while Duncan got zero. Hakeem was a better defender, period. Who did Duncan even shut down really?

Over 5 games in '05 a 22 year old Amare Stoudemire did following crazy scoring on DUNCAN in the WCF;

Stoudemire in Game 1; 41 points on 61% shooting.
Stoudemire in Game 2; 37 points on 60% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 3; 34 points on 50% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 4; 31 points on 56% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 5; 42 points on 50% shooting.

You guys want to call a guy who allowed a 22 year old Stoudemire to average 37 points on 55% shooting against him in the playoffs a GOAT defender..
:facepalm

[Dizzle-2k7]

Hakeem Olajuwon is probably the second greatest defender of all-time behind Bill Russell. I'm not even sure if Duncan is even a top 10 defender of all-time.

I also want to bring up two more points about Duncan.



-Duncan is known to be an incredibly consistent player but he was actually very inconsistent in his career season by season.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Duncan holds the record for most all nba defensive teams(13) , you fool. Nobody has ever played defense better than Duncan, with the exception of maybe Pippen.

And you just called Duncan inconsistent?:biggums:

[StateOfMind12]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Duncan holds the record for most all nba defensive teams(13) , you fool. Nobody has ever played defense better than Duncan, with the exception of maybe Pippen.

:facepalm Like All-NBA Defensive teams mean anything. That award is nothing more than reputation. Duncan hasn't deserved an All-defense selection since 2007 or 2008 while he has been voted into every all-defense team since he got into the league. The invalidity of the award doesn't just apply to Duncan either, it also applies to many other players like Kobe.

[k0kakw0rld]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Duncan holds the record for most all nba defensive teams(13) , you fool. Nobody has ever played defense better than Duncan, with the exception of maybe Pippen.

And you just called Duncan inconsistent?:biggums:

This. What more can i say?????????????? GOAT PF nuff said.

[CavaliersFTW]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Duncan holds the record for most all nba defensive teams(13) , you fool. Nobody has ever played defense better than Duncan, with the exception of maybe Pippen.

And you just called Duncan inconsistent?:biggums:

So Bill Russell didn't play better defense than Duncan? :roll:

[rodman91]

Accomplishments do mean something to me but they don't mean that much to me. Championship and Finals MVPs are the most important and the only valued award these days. Every other award is incredibly subjective and also dependent on the era.

I don't think it's correct to punish Hakeem for not being put in such a fortunate situation like Duncan was put in.

Hakeem's career from like 87-92 was essentially wasted. He had a terrible coach in Don Chaney who preferred having Vernon Maxwell hoist up as many or more shots than Hakeem did and before Maxwell came around he preferred having others taking just as many shots as Hakeem did.

The Rockets never ran their offense completely to Hakeem until Rudy T. stepped in as head coach in 1992. In the 1992-1993 season, Hakeem was an MVP candidate that season and many argued that he should have won it. I do feel like Hakeem and MJ should have won the MVP that season opposed to Barkley. Do you really think it was just a big coincidence that Hakeem became an MVP candidate right when Rudy T. came in and ran the offense completely through Hakeem?

It's not Hakeem's fault that he had coaches that essentially held him back for like 5-6 years of his career while Duncan has always been put in such a fortunate situation and has played with the same great coach for his entire career.

Plus, it is not like Duncan's accomplishments completely blow Hakeem's accomplishments out of the water either. Duncan definitely has the advantage there but they are still relatively close despite the fact that Hakeem played in a tougher era, was less fortunate, and so on.

I agree. But there are many other guys are higher on list because of accomplishments or weaker competition.Same question can be asked what makes Russell better than Hakeem or Duncan other than rings & MVPs? If defense both of them were great defenders as well. Hakeem & Duncan much better scorers and played worse teammates compared to him and win championships.

People use Duncan because he isn't myth like Russell. He is not untouchable.

If i was GM, I would choose Hakeem over Duncan. But in these goat rankings, Duncan gotta be higher. I mean Dennis Johnson usually ranked higher than many 90's & 00's all time greats. I respect him but he wasn't greater than those guys. GOAT rankings = bullshit.

[Dizzle-2k7]

So Bill Russell didn't play better defense than Duncan? :roll:

Duncan is fundamentally perfect with his defense (and help defense). Doesnt bite on pumpfakes, forces you into bad shots, gets some blocks, steals, quick rotations, rarely fouls, incredible footwork, long wingspan, great awareness, etc.

Russell played in a different time, which is why i said Duncan is the greatest of the modern era.

[Dizzle-2k7]

If Hakeem beat Jordan he might have an argument over Duncan, but he didnt. He won when Jordan took a break.

Duncan didnt need Shaq and Kobe to retire. He beat them.:bowdown:

[rodman91]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Duncan holds the record for most all nba defensive teams(13) , you fool. Nobody has ever played defense better than Duncan, with the exception of maybe Pippen.

And you just called Duncan inconsistent?:biggums:

Same logic says, Kobe is already better defender than Jordan,Pippen,Rodman.

Duncan is one of the best defenders but Hakeem was even better.

[millwad]

Hakeem is the leader in blocks, 8 in steals, he got 2 DPOYS while Duncan got zero. Hakeem was a better defender, period. Who did Duncan even shut down really?

Over 5 games in '05 a 22 year old Amare Stoudemire did following crazy scoring on DUNCAN in the WCF;

Stoudemire in Game 1; 41 points on 61% shooting.
Stoudemire in Game 2; 37 points on 60% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 3; 34 points on 50% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 4; 31 points on 56% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 5; 42 points on 50% shooting.

You guys want to call a guy who allowed a 22 year old Stoudemire to average 37 points on 55% shooting against him in the playoffs a GOAT defender..
:facepalm

BUMP... HAHA..

GOAT DEFENDER DUNCAN...:facepalm

[rodman91]

If Hakeem beat Jordan he might have an argument over Duncan, but he didnt. He won when Jordan took a break.

Duncan didnt need Shaq and Kobe to retire. He beat them.:bowdown:

If we don't count teammates,coaches,opponents and eras.. you have a point.

[Pushxx]

Here is my top 10 list from a thread a while ago:

"My top list:
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt*
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem**
11. Oscar

*I've struggle with where to put Wilt. He should either be #4 or #6. I've settled on #6, as much as it kills me.

**It kills me more to put Hakeem at #10. He had to go against some impossible competition in the 80s. But I gotta do it."

[Dizzle-2k7]

4 rings

[millwad]

Duncan is fundamentally perfect with his defense (and help defense). Doesnt bite on pumpfakes, forces you into bad shots, gets some blocks, steals, quick rotations, rarely fouls, incredible footwork, long wingspan, great awareness, etc.

Russell played in a different time, which is why i said Duncan is the greatest of the modern era.

Yeah, the GOAT defender Duncan got shitted on by a 22 year old Stoudemire a la;


Over 5 games in '05 a 22 year old Amare Stoudemire did following crazy scoring on DUNCAN in the WCF;

Stoudemire in Game 1; 41 points on 61% shooting.
Stoudemire in Game 2; 37 points on 60% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 3; 34 points on 50% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 4; 31 points on 56% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 5; 42 points on 50% shooting.

[Dizzle-2k7]

Milwad who won that series?

[millwad]

4 rings

The dude wasn't even FINALS MVP in one of them, and his first came the year after Jordan retired and when the league was crappy as shit. They faced the freaking Knicks in the finals..

And it didn't get better in 2003 when they faced the Nets, haha..

[Dizzle-2k7]

And it didn't get better in 2003 when they faced the Nets, haha..

Act like Duncan didnt go through the greatest western conference of all time every year ( lakers, blazers, mavs, suns, etc)

[rodman91]

4 rings

Do you believe Bill Russell is GOAT by far?

[millwad]

Milwad who won that series?

The Spurs were a better team but fact still remains that a 22 year old Stoudemire took a huge dump all over Duncan in that series. And that's the guy you call "GOAT"-defender, haha..

[Dizzle-2k7]

Do you believe Bill Russell is GOAT by far?

pre 1970 yes

[Odinn]

Yeah, the GOAT defender Duncan got shitted on by a 22 year old Stoudemire a la;


Over 5 games in '05 a 22 year old Amare Stoudemire did following crazy scoring on DUNCAN in the WCF;

Stoudemire in Game 1; 41 points on 61% shooting.
Stoudemire in Game 2; 37 points on 60% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 3; 34 points on 50% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 4; 31 points on 56% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 5; 42 points on 50% shooting.
Not gonna say Duncan did great job on Amar'e but did you leave that the facts are Duncan was back from injury and that was Spurs' plan for beating Suns (letting Amar'e play) on purpose?

[millwad]

Act like Duncan didnt go through the greatest western conference of all time every year ( lakers, blazers, mavs, suns, etc)

And the worst final competition ever.. :roll:
And he got lucky breaks a la Dirk getting injured and he still let Amare shit on him..

[millwad]

Not gonna say Duncan did great job on Amar'e but did you leave that the facts are Duncan was back from injury and that was Spurs' plan for beating Suns (letting Amar'e play) on purpose?

He didn't get shitted on because of a back injury, he got shitted on because a 22 year old Amare abused him in that series.

[Odinn]

Hakeem had a series like Duncan's 2005 Suns series; 1990 playoffs, 1st round. But that didn't hurt Hakeem's legacy about defensive end. Right?.. Cherry picking.

[Odinn]

He didn't get shitted on because of a back injury, he got shitted on because a 22 year old Amare abused him in that series.
You're the Hakeem version of jlauber...

[millwad]

You're the Hakeem version of jlauber...

I am telling you the truth, you guys are calling him a GOAT defender yadi yadi..
He was no GOAT defender and Hakeem was both a better offensive and defensive player.

[CavaliersFTW]

Duncan is fundamentally perfect with his defense (and help defense). Doesnt bite on pumpfakes, forces you into bad shots, gets some blocks, steals, quick rotations, rarely fouls, incredible footwork, long wingspan, great awareness, etc.

Russell played in a different time, which is why i said Duncan is the greatest of the modern era.

You didn't say "modern era" you said GOAT. Duncan follows the book. Russell re-wrote it throughout his entire career, and analyzed defense to a mathematical and psychological complexity that can't even be followed by other players from his era or this era because he was literally a defensive genius. His own coach Aurbach didn't know what the hell he was doing he just said do what you do because I don't understand it but it works - listen to him asking Russell all the questions and being fascinated by Russell's answers despite coaching him for over a decade. Not to mention Russell was more athletic than Duncan. Fundamentals makes you great defender, but it's not enough to make you a GOAT defender.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmWpx7TacY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2balCuh-s8Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cxnVdpVm4o

[millwad]

Hakeem had a series like Duncan's 2005 Suns series; 1990 playoffs, 1st round. But that didn't hurt Hakeem's legacy about defensive end. Right?.. Cherry picking.

No, because he didn't get shitted on, he played on a horrible team and they happened to face a team lead by the best point guard ever and the HOF:er James Worthy. Hakeem had a bad series but he didn't get outplayed by an opposing center.

He didn't get shitted on by a fellow center, and certainly not a 22 year old kid and that was not Hakeem's prime.

[Odinn]

I am telling you the truth, you guys are calling him a GOAT defender yadi yadi..
He was no GOAT defender and Hakeem was both a better offensive and defensive player.
I said Duncan was goat level defender. Not exactly said he was better than Hakeem or he does have a stronger case than Hakeem for goat defender title. But he was on that level.

[millwad]

I said Duncan was goat level defender. Not exactly said he was better than Hakeem or he does have a stronger case than Hakeem for goat defender title. But he was on that level.

No, he wasn't.
I'm sorry, but Duncan has no case for being called a GOAT defender. Duncan was and still is an elite defender but he has no case what so ever to be called a GOAT defender.

And if he has a case, please tell me why..

[CavaliersFTW]

No, he wasn't.
I'm sorry, but Duncan has no case for being called a GOAT defender. Duncan was and still is an elite defender but he has no case what so ever to be called a GOAT defender.

And if he has a case, please tell me why..

This.

[Artillery]

The dude wasn't even FINALS MVP in one of them, and his first came the year after Jordan retired and when the league was crappy as shit. They faced the freaking Knicks in the finals..

Kinda like Hakeem's first championship or second(when Jordan was out of shape). Jordan never retires and he wins eight straight.

[millwad]

Kinda like Hakeem's first championship or second(when Jordan was out of shape). Jordan never retires and he wins eight straight.

Please, Jordan and the Bulls had no shot at the title in '95, they had no PF..
Grant was in Orlando and Rodman was still in San Antonio. They got crushed by Shaq and Penny in the playoffs and the same Penny and Shaq combo got swept by Hakeem and the Rockets.

In '94 it would have been a great match-up though, Hakeem is the only superstar who faced prime Jordan and still doesn't have a loosing record against MJ. I'm absolutely not claiming that the Rockets would have won, but they always played the Bulls well, even the years they didn't do any noise at all in the playoffs.

[Odinn]

No, he wasn't.
I'm sorry, but Duncan has no case for being called a GOAT defender. Duncan was and still is an elite defender but he has no case what so ever to be called a GOAT defender.

And if he has a case, please tell me why..
I guess holding the record for most blocks(32 total and 5.3 per game) in a NBA Final series isn't that impressive?
I guess holding the record for most All-D selections (which almost all of them well deserved) isn't that impressive?
I guess having 2 title runs with 3+ bpg isn't that impressive?

Compared to Hakeem;
Hakeem's career bpg 3.1 and blk% 5.4
Hakeem's playoff bpg 3.3 and blk% 5.5
Duncan's career bpg 2.1 and blk% 4.5
Duncan's playoff bpg 2.6 and blk% 4.8

Duncan was not better than Hakeem but he was on his level. If Hakeem was 100 defensively, Duncan was at least 96-97.

Of course you will keep trashing. I'm not gonna keep responding because not gonna matter for you what I say. You're one of the most arrogant posters in this forum.

[CavaliersFTW]

I guess holding the record for most blocks(32 total and 5.3 per game) in a NBA Final series isn't that impressive?
I guess holding the record for most All-D selections (which almost all of them well deserved) isn't that impressive?
I guess having 2 title runs with 3+ bpg isn't that impressive?

Compared to Hakeem;
Hakeem's career bpg 3.1 and blk% 5.4
Hakeem's playoff bpg 3.3 and blk% 5.5
Duncan's career bpg 2.1 and blk% 4.5
Duncan's playoff bpg 2.6 and blk% 4.8

Duncan was not better than Hakeem but he was on his level. If Hakeem was 100 defensively, Duncan was at least 96-97.

Of course you will keep trashing. I'm not gonna keep responding because not gonna matter for you what I say. You're one of the most arrogant posters in this forum.

He flat out said Duncan was a great defender... he's calling out the flaky claim that "Duncan is a GOAT" defender... He's not trashing Duncan. He's just saying he doesn't think Duncan is the GOAT defender. Duncan doesn't have a case as GOAT defender in my book either. That doesn't mean it's trashing him.

[millwad]

I guess holding the record for most blocks(32 total and 5.3 per game) in a NBA Final series isn't that impressive?

It sure is impressive, but not something that makes you a GOAT defender. What about the rest of his career?



I guess holding the record for most All-D selections (which almost all of them well deserved) isn't that impressive?

It's impressive but zero DPOY's makes him a non-factor in the talk about GOAT defenders.



I guess having 2 title runs with 3+ bpg isn't that impressive?


No, not compared to guys like Hakeem. Hakeem averaged 3.1 blocks per game over 18 years, Duncan never even averaged 3 blocks per game in any season.



Compared to Hakeem;
Hakeem's career bpg 3.1 and blk% 5.4
Hakeem's playoff bpg 3.3 and blk% 5.5
Duncan's career bpg 2.1 and blk% 4.5
Duncan's playoff bpg 2.6 and blk% 4.8


Hakeem played to the age of 39, wait 'til TD reaches that age and you'll see his average drop alot. Hakeem to the age of 35 is way superior when it comes to shotblocking, Hakeem's career average is 3.1 blocks per game, Duncan never even averaged 3 blocks per game once in his career. No debate here..



Duncan was not better than Hakeem but he was on his level. If Hakeem was 100 defensively, Duncan was at least 96-97.

No, that's just not true.
Duncan never even lead the league in rebounds per game, Duncan never even lead the league in blocks per game and Duncan has zero DPOYS. You can try all you want but he is not a GOAT defender.



Of course you will keep trashing. I'm not gonna keep responding because not gonna matter for you what I say. You're one of the most arrogant posters in this forum.

You're getting shitted on, that's why. See above why he's not in the GOAT discussion a la defense. I am not trashing, you just can't prove why you think he's got a case for GOAT defender. Don't be butthurt, Duncan was and is an amazing defender and elite but no, he's not a GOAT defender.

[Artillery]

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7839/statswq.jpg

[swi7ch]

tough choice... goat PF versus goat C... but i'll give olajuwon the edge just because he can shoot FTs better than duncan

[Anaximandro1]

Spurs fan here.

Olajuwon is better than Duncan and Shaq.No amount of rings will ever change that.

Tim is a master,and the best power forward to ever play in the NBA.The Quiet Storm is also the MVP of the post-Jordan era.

1999 Finals Game 5
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-BPQ192bPQ)

but Olajuwon had otherworldly skills.Man, it's hard to believe.

1995 WCF Game 2
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYFV06e2blE)

[veilside23]

Spurs fan here.

Olajuwon is better than Duncan and Shaq.No amount of rings will ever change that.

Tim is a master,and the best power forward to ever play in the NBA.The Quiet Storm is also the MVP of the post-Jordan era.

1999 Finals Game 5
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-BPQ192bPQ)

but Olajuwon had otherworldly skills.Man, it's hard to believe.

1995 WCF Game 2
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYFV06e2blE)


THIS!

[jlauber]

Hakeem is the leader in blocks, 8 in steals, he got 2 DPOYS while Duncan got zero. Hakeem was a better defender, period. Who did Duncan even shut down really?

Over 5 games in '05 a 22 year old Amare Stoudemire did following crazy scoring on DUNCAN in the WCF;

Stoudemire in Game 1; 41 points on 61% shooting.
Stoudemire in Game 2; 37 points on 60% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 3; 34 points on 50% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 4; 31 points on 56% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 5; 42 points on 50% shooting.

You guys want to call a guy who allowed a 22 year old Stoudemire to average 37 points on 55% shooting against him in the playoffs a GOAT defender..
:facepalm


How about over the course of Duncan's and Amare's 24 regular season H2H's?

Duncan 23.4 ppg .543 shooting (12.8 rpg)
Amare 21.8 ppg .522 shooting (10.0 rpg)

Or their 25 career playoff H2H's?

Duncan 23.8 ppg .534 (13.8 rpg)
Amare 24.0 ppg .511 (9.2 rpg)


Now, how about TOTAL DOMINATION...

Kareem, at ages 38 and 39 years old (yes, 38 and 39 years old!) vs. a 22 and 23 year old Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT games...




32 points 14-22 .636 shooting
34 points 14-20 .700 shooting
40 points 16-29 .551 shooting
19 points 8-16 .500 shooting
30 points 13-17 .765 shooting

35 points 17-26 .654 shooting
46 points 21-30 .700 shooting and in only 37 minutes
43 points 16-24 .667 shooting
18 points 7-12 .583 shooting
23 points 10-19 .526 shooting

31.8 ppg and on a MIND-BOGGLING .630 FG% on AVERAGE




Once again, from a 38 and 39 year old Kareem who was a shell of what a PRIME Kareem had been.

In fact, I have challenged anyone here, to find me ONE other center, in NBA HISTORY, and against ANY other center, in NBA HISTORY, who has ever produced a TEN STRAIGHT GAME STREAK of AVERAGING 31.8 ppg on .630 shooting. And keep in mind that that overwhelming domination came from a 38-39 year old center who would be out of the league in a couple of years.

And before Dickwad brings up Hakeem-Kareem in the '86 WCF's, it was NOT Hakeem who guarded Kareem in that series (unlike those regular season H2H's in which Hakeem DID attempt to guard Kareem), but rather SAMPSON (with double team help from Hakeem.) And even then, a 39 year old Kareem at the tail end of his career STILL averaged 27 ppg on .496 shooting against BOTH Sampson and Hakeem (and included games of 33 and 31 points.)

THAT is the supposed GOAT defender Hakeem.


And how does a supposedly GOAT defender, and in HIS supposed PRIME...allow a 23 year old Shaq to average 28 ppg on a STAGGERING .595 FG% in the '95 Finals.

Or, how about Hakeem vs. Shaq in their CAREER H2H's...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

In their 20 regular season H2H's...

Hakeem 18.4 ppg on .447 shooting (9.1 rpg)
Shaq 22.1 ppg on .544 shooting (12.4 rpg)

Or their eight post-season games...

Hakeem 23.0 ppg on .465 shooting (9.4 rpg)
Shaq 28.8 ppg on .556 shooting (11.4 rpg)

The REALITY was/is this...

Duncan guaranteed a team 55-60+ wins and a deep playoff run, with FOUR rings and THREE Finals MVPs

Hakeem pretty much got HIS team's 45-50 wins per year, and in over HALF of his playoff seasons, he got HIS team's ONE WIN, on average, in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs.

THAT is why the INTELLIGENT observers rank Duncan over Hakeem.

[KingBeasley08]

for once i actually read a jlabuer essay... and I feel enlightened :bowdown:

[jlauber]

for once i actually read a jlabuer essay... and I feel enlightened :bowdown:

:cheers:

[Smoke117]

They were born in the mid 90s.

[Round Mound]

Hakeem was Better than Duncan at almost every aspect but Ballhandling and Passing.

[linZoMourning]

Hakeem was Better than Duncan at almost every aspect but Ballhandling and Passing.

from the same idiot who thinks barkley is better then duncan

[Round Mound]

from the same idiot who thinks barkley is better then duncan

And you a Spurs Fan? Next...

PD: Barkley outplayed Duncan at ages 34-36 with no leap, injured and overweight (4 Games without Hakeem out of the 8). Hakeem was more skilled than Duncan as a Post Player, Scorer, FT Shooter, Rebounder, Defender, Shot Blocker, Team Defender, Floor Defender, Stealer too.

[Big#50]

Hakeem is the leader in blocks, 8 in steals, he got 2 DPOYS while Duncan got zero. Hakeem was a better defender, period. Who did Duncan even shut down really?

Over 5 games in '05 a 22 year old Amare Stoudemire did following crazy scoring on DUNCAN in the WCF;

Stoudemire in Game 1; 41 points on 61% shooting.
Stoudemire in Game 2; 37 points on 60% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 3; 34 points on 50% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 4; 31 points on 56% shooting.
Stoudemire in game 5; 42 points on 50% shooting.

You guys want to call a guy who allowed a 22 year old Stoudemire to average 37 points on 55% shooting against him in the playoffs a GOAT defender..
:facepalm
Someone didn't watch that series. Hakeem would get stopped by TIM. TIM doesn't fall for stupid head fakes and pumps.

[millwad]

Someone didn't watch that series. Hakeem would get stopped by TIM. TIM doesn't fall for stupid head fakes and pumps.

But he falls for the moves of a 22 year old Stoudemire..:facepalm

Hakeem would have done the same thing to TD as he did to Robinson.

[millwad]

Now, how about TOTAL DOMINATION...

Kareem, at ages 38 and 39 years old (yes, 38 and 39 years old!) vs. a 22 and 23 year old Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT games...



THAT is why the INTELLIGENT observers rank Duncan over Hakeem.

The difference is that a 23 year old Olajuwon destroyed Kareem and the Lakers in the WCF in his 2nd pro season. I know that you're obsessed with the regular season due Wilt's shortcomings in the playoffs but fact still remains that the Lakers and Kareem were helpless in the '86 playoffs.

And still you're comparing a 26 year old Duncan to a 2nd year pro Olajuwon, and you're comparing Abdul-Jabbar (the same player Olajuwon outplayed big time in the playoffs) to a 22 year old Stoudemire, haha.. What a retard. :facepalm

Duncan got scored on like crazy by a 22 year old Stoudemire in the playoffs and he allowed Stoudemire to average 37 points on him per game on great FG%.

And fact still remains, '86 JABBAR > '03 Stoudemire..

And yeah, you are so intelligent, you are the same retard who thought Hakeem got outplayed in game 2 of the 1995 finals because Shaq scored on the Rockets n garbage time after getting abused in the first half, haha..

Even Wilt-fans like CavaliersFTW mocks you, there's nothing intelligent about you..:facepalm

[Big#50]

But he falls for the moves of a 22 year old Stoudemire..:facepalm

Hakeem would have done the same thing to TD as he did to Robinson.
Amare did most of his scoring off the Nash P&R. Duncan wasn't the only guarding him. Amare is faster than Hakeem. Way quicker first step. If a terrified and pussified DROB can score 24 ppt against Hakeem in a series, I have no doubt TIM drops 30.

[jlauber]

The difference is that a 23 year old Olajuwon destroyed Kareem and the Lakers in the WCF in his 2nd pro season. I know that you're obsessed with the regular season due Wilt's shortcomings in the playoffs but fact still remains that the Lakers and Kareem were helpless in the '86 playoffs.

And still you're comparing a 26 year old Duncan to a 2nd year pro Olajuwon, and you're comparing Abdul-Jabbar (the same player Olajuwon outplayed big time in the playoffs) to a 22 year old Stoudemire, haha.. What a retard. :facepalm

Duncan got scored on like crazy by a 22 year old Stoudemire in the playoffs and he allowed Stoudemire to average 37 points on him per game on great FG%.

And fact still remains, '86 JABBAR > '03 Stoudemire..

And yeah, you are so intelligent, you are the same retard who thought Hakeem got outplayed in game 2 of the 1995 finals because Shaq scored on the Rockets n garbage time after getting abused in the first half, haha..

Even Wilt-fans like CavaliersFTW mocks you, there's nothing intelligent about you..:facepalm

Once again, Hakeem did NOT have the primary assignment on the 39 year old Kareem in the '86 WCF's. He did help Sampson slow Kareem down to a 27 ppg .496 player. Unlike the Kareem, when guarded mostly by Hakeem, averaged 33 ppg on .634 shooting in the regular season. And NO, Hakeem did not "destroy" the Lakers in that series. He averaged 31 ppg on .520 shooting, and in fact, was not even on the floor when they came back to beat LA in the clinching game five.

In any case, for you to brag about a 23 year old Hakeem outplaying a 39 year old Kareem is truly laughable. Swap that around, and just how much of a bloodbath would be have seen? A 23 year old Kareem, who won the MVP, the FMVP, led the league in scoring at 31.7 ppg, grabbed 16 rpg, and shot .577, all in 40.3 mpg. Against a 39 year old Hakeem who averaged 7.1 ppg, 6.0 rpg, and shot .464.

As for your RIDICULOUS assertion that an '86 Kareem was somehow greater than a 22 year old Amare...

Kareem averaged 23.4 ppg, 6.2 rpg, and shot .564. A 22 year old Stoudemire averaged 26.0 ppg, 8.9 rpg, and shot .559 from the floor.

Wilt's "shortcomings" in the playoffs??? :roll: :roll: :roll:

This coming from a Hakeem-lover who watched his idol carry EIGHT teams down in flames in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs. No other all-time "great" ever came close to that kind of "shortcoming."

Duncan carried several different rosters to titles. He has ALWAYS been good for 50+ wins (and several 60+ win seasons.) FOUR rings and THREE FMVP's.

Meanwhile, the "Nightmare" carried over HALF of his playoff teams to not only FIRST ROUND losses, but they were not even close in the vast majority of them. He could usually get his team's to 45-50 wins...but then...BOOM, they would invariably get blown to shreds in the playoffs.

Duncan > Hakeem. And by a considerabe margin.

[millwad]

Amare did most of his scoring off the Nash P&R. Duncan wasn't the only guarding him. Amare is faster than Hakeem. Way quicker first step. If a terrified and pussified DROB can score 24 ppt against Hakeem in a series, I have no doubt TIM drops 30.

Oh, so now a 22 year old Amare is a harder player to defend compared to Hakeem.. The same Hakeem who has the highest point per game average of any center in the playoffs of all-time..:facepalm

Duncan couldn't even score 30 on a 36+ year old Olajuwon and look at that FG% vs old man Hakeem, haha..:oldlol:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=duncati01

And yeah, lets act like a '95 MVP Robinson was just pure crap and lets forget that he had led the league in scoring etc.

[rodman91]

Jordan talks about Hakeem (1996)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3LOtjPay4CM#t=27s

[millwad]

Once again, Hakeem did NOT have the primary assignment on the 39 year old Kareem in the '86 WCF's. He did help Sampson slow Kareem down to a 27 ppg .496 player. Unlike the Kareem, when guarded mostly by Hakeem, averaged 33 ppg on .634 shooting in the regular season. And NO, Hakeem did not "destroy" the Lakers in that series. He averaged 31 ppg on .520 shooting, and in fact, was not even on the floor when they came back to beat LA in the clinching game five.


Still you're stuck with the nonsense about Olajuwon's defense in his rookie and 2nd pro season, it's the only thing you ever mention. What kind of idiot judge a player based on a few regular season games in the players rookie and 2nd year pro season? Seriously? You are so butthurt that it's beyond silly..

And yes, Hakeem did in fact destroy Kareem and the Lakers in '86 playoffs which completely destroys all your nonsense about non-meaningful regular season games.

And wow, you only show that you're stupid and ignorant, no, Olajuwon was not on the court at Sampsons game winning shot due fighting but Olajuwon had 17 huge points in the third quarter alone and he was the clear leader of that team. You are so retarded..

The Lakers couldn't stop 2nd year pro Olajuwon and he shut the Lakers down while putting up 40, 35 and 30 in the last 3 games of that series and he wasn't even close to his prime.



In any case, for you to brag about a 23 year old Hakeem outplaying a 39 year old Kareem is truly laughable. Swap that around, and just how much of a bloodbath would be have seen? A 23 year old Kareem, who won the MVP, the FMVP, led the league in scoring at 31.7 ppg, grabbed 16 rpg, and shot .577, all in 40.3 mpg. Against a 39 year old Hakeem who averaged 7.1 ppg, 6.0 rpg, and shot .464.


I don't brag, I just shut you down. You spam about some regular season games when Olajuwon the same freaking season as a 2nd year pro abused and sent the Lakers home in an easy 4-1 win in the WCF. I only mention that series when you spam about them regular season games when you know that Olajuwon easily got the best of the Laker bigs in the WCF.



As for your RIDICULOUS assertion that an '86 Kareem was somehow greater than a 22 year old Amare...


Kareem averaged 23.4 ppg, 6.2 rpg, and shot .564. A 22 year old Stoudemire averaged 26.0 ppg, 8.9 rpg, and shot .559 from the floor.

And somehow Amare didn't even make the first NBA team while Jabbar did and some how Jabbar ended up higher than Amare on the MVP ranking..:facepalm



Wilt's "shortcomings" in the playoffs??? :roll: :roll: :roll:


Yes, statpadding in the regular season while dropping like crazy in the playoffs. Haha, he even has a lower point per game average than Olajuwon and also on worse FG% in the playoffs.. That much for Wilt scoring..:facepalm

Haha an 8 point drop between the regular season and the playoffs on much worse FG%... Definition of a true stat padder who couldn't even win while being the first option.. :facepalm



This coming from a Hakeem-lover who watched his idol carry EIGHT teams down in flames in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs. No other all-time "great" ever came close to that kind of "shortcoming."

First of all, I'm not a lover, I'm a fan. You're the lover here, you're so obsessed with Wilt that it's scary.

I've asked you tons of times about what years he should have made it further considering the teammates he had.. Mention the years.



Duncan carried several different rosters to titles. He has ALWAYS been good for 50+ wins (and several 60+ win seasons.) FOUR rings and THREE FMVP's.


Duncan had way more talent next to him and still Hakeem is a better defender and and a offensive player. And exactly, THREE FMVP's, freaking Tony Parker played better in one of those finals year.. TONY PARKER..



Meanwhile, the "Nightmare" carried over HALF of his playoff teams to not only FIRST ROUND losses, but they were not even close in the vast majority of them. He could usually get his team's to 45-50 wins...but then...BOOM, they would invariably get blown to shreds in the playoffs.

What years should he have made it further? And fact still remains that Hakeem won just as many rings as Wilt while being the first option, not the fourth like Wilt, haha. The "nightmare" carried one of the worst teams ever in '94 to win it all, when was the last time a star player won anything at all while having a 2nd best scorer in Maxwell who averaged 13.8 points per game in the playoffs on 38% shooting..:facepalm

Wilt with those kind of teammates didn't even make the playoffs, haha..



Duncan > Hakeem. And by a considerabe margin.

We all know that you only join this discussion because you're butthurt, Hakeem is easily both a better defender and an offensive player. You only join this discussion to somehow be able to spam about Wilt and you've been exposed.

Every post you ever make gets laughed at and even CavaliersFTW who is one the same "side" as you mocks you constantly. You're garbage and you have no knowledge about basketball other than quotes and copy and paste stats. You can act like some self-proclaimed historian but fact still remains that you're the most abused poster ever on ISH, you can't even write a post or thread before people comes and mocks and even Wilt-fans dislike you..

[linZoMourning]

But he falls for the moves of a 22 year old Stoudemire..:facepalm

Hakeem would have done the same thing to TD as he did to Robinson.

coulda woulda shoulda. never happened. if we are talkin coulda then TD woulda made hakeem his bitch

[jlauber]

Yes, statpadding in the regular season while dropping like crazy in the playoffs. Haha, he even has a lower point per game average than Olajuwon and also on worse FG% in the playoffs.. That much for Wilt scoring..

Haha an 8 point drop between the regular season and the playoffs on much worse FG%... Definition of a true stat padder who couldn't even win while being the first option..



Ok, I have DESTROYED these ridiculous assertions before, and I will again.

First of all, Hakeem shot .528 in the post-season, to Wilt's .522. HOWEVER, Hakeem played in leagues that ranged from .437 to .492. Wilt, from .410 to .456. On AVERAGE, Hakeem played in leagues that shot .470. Chamberlain... .435.

THEN, Hakeem faced a starting HOF center in 35 of his 145 career playoff games. Included in that was a five game series against a 39 year old Kareem. Chamberlaion faced a starting HOF center in 105 of his 160 post-season games, including ELEVEN against a PRIME Kareem. In fact, Chamberlain faced the greatest defensive center of all-time, Bill Russell, in 49 playoff games. And he also faced HOFer Nate Thurmond in 17 more.

And yet, with all of that, Hakeem outshot Wilt by a .528 to .522 margin.

BTW, how about in their Finals games? In Hakeem's THREE Finals series, and covering 17 games, he collectively shot .488. His HIGH Finals was .500. His LOW was .483 against Shaq and .483 against Parish. Chamberlain, in his SIX Finals, and covering 35 games, collectively shot .560. His LOW was .517 against Russell (in a series in which he averaged 29.2 ppg.) He also had a .560 series against Nate Thurmond, (who NEVER allowed Kareem to shoot higher than .486 in the post-season.) AND, Wilt's HIGH's were .600 and .625 against the Knicks (and Willis Reed and Jerry Lucas.)

Scoring? In Wilt's "scoring" seasons, and in his absolute PRIME, covering his first seven seasons, Chamberlain averaged 32.8 ppg ... COMBINED. He also had entire post-seasons of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. He had entire series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and even 38.7 ppg. He also had FOUR series, just against Russell, of 30+ ppg (and two more of 28 and 29 ppg)...including one seven game series in which he averaged 30 ppg and 31 rpg.

Oh, and how many 50+ point games did Hakeem have? Chamberlain had FOUR, including THREE in "must-win elimination" games (which included games of 53-22, 56-35, and 50-35...the last one against Russell.) And his other 50 point game came on 22-32 shooting. Wilt also had FOUR 40-30+ games against Russell, and a 45-27 "must-win" game in the '70 Finals (and on one leg.)

In Wilt's first seven post-seasons, and in his fist eight years, he averaged a 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, .515 (in leagues that shot .428 on average), game...COMBINED (in 67 games.) Now, how many 30-27-5 .515 games did Hakeem have in his entire post-season career?

That covers scoring and efficiency. A PRIME Chamberlain was LIGHT YEARS ahead of even a PRIME Hakeem.

How about rebounding? Hakeem was routinely outrebounded in three Finals, including being outrebounded by Ewing and Shaq in nearly every one of their H2H games. Not only that, but TEAMMATE Otis Thorpe even easily outrebounded Hakeem in the '94 Finals (BTW, Thorpe also shot .530 in that series, which was also better than Hakeem's .500...so much for this nonsense that Hakeem had no help.) Overall, a PRIME Hakeem was battered by Shaq in their EIGHT playoff games, and even Barkley, as a TEAMMATE outrebounded him.

How about Wilt? In his 29 post-season series, he was NEVER outrebounded. In fact, he was POUNDING his opposing centers in the majority of those games. His LOWEST rpg average in his 13 post-season career was 20.2 rpg. (Hakeem's high, which of course came in a first round playoff blowout loss, was 16.8 rpg.) Wilt also had EIGHT entire post-seasons of 24.7+ rpg, with high's of 29.1 and 30.2 rpg.


Chamberlain also was HUGE in his BIGGEST games...

continued...

[jlauber]

Continuing...and for the few that have not yet read this RESEARCH...


The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games.

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.


Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.


As for Wilt not being the "leading scorer" in his two title runs...

In his 66-67 playoff stretch, he had Philly's highest scoring game, of 41 points (and on 19-30 shooting.) And while teammate Hal Greer slightly outscored Wilt (27 ppg to 22 ppg), Chamberlain outshot Greer by a .579 to .429 margin. Chamberlain also DOMINATED the clinching game five win against Russell and Boston, and then, while Greer flopped in the clinching game six of the Finals, Chamberlain TORCHED Thurmond in leading the Sixers to the title.

Overall, in the '67 playoffs, Chamberlain had TWO TRIPLE-DOUBLE series (28.0, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg and on .612 shooting, against the Royals; and 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, and on .556 shooting against Russell's Celtics.) He even had a QUAD DOUBLE, against Russell, no less, with a 24-32-13-12 game (and a clinching TRIPLE DOUBLE game of 29-36-13-7.) He also outshot Dierking, .612 to .427; Russell, .556 to .358; and Thurmond, .560 to .343.

In his 71-72 title run, and again, in his team's BIGGEST games, it was WILT who came thru. In the clinching game six win (and in Milwaukee), he dominated Kareem, particularly in the 4th quarter. And then in the clinching game five win over the Knicks, he hung a 24 point, 10-14 shooting, 29 rebound, 9 block game (and with two badly injured wrists) en route to winning the FMVP.


And while Wilt routinely took pathetic rosters to within an eye-lash of winning titles, (and going to SIX Finals), and with his teammates collectively shooting these percentages... .383, .380, .354, .352, .352, and even .332. How many post-seasons did Hakeem's teammates shoot that poorly???

Or show me the series where Wilt's teammates collectively dominated their opposing players like Hakeem's did to Shaq's Magic in '95. While a YOUNG 23 year old Shaq just abused the PRIME Hakeem (here again, how does a GOAT defensive center, in his supposed PRIME, surrender 28 ppg on a mind-boggling .595 shooting, all while being battered on the glass, out-assisted, and outblocked...and holding Hakeem to a paltry .483 FG% in the process)...Hakeem's TEAMMATES MASSIVELY outshot Shaq's from the floor, the arc, and killed them from the line by a HUGE margin.


Meanwhile, Hakeem ROUTINELY took his team's down in flames in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs. EIGHT times in 15 post-seasons. And not only that, they seldom won more than ONE game in those first round losses. Just DISGRACEFUL!

Wilt in the post-season... >>>>>>>>>>> Hakeem. Not even worth discussing. In fact, the more I look at Moses, the better he looks. I now have Moses ahead of Hakeem on my all-time list. He was certainly far more dominant against his peers, including a much more prime Kareem.

Hakeem's legacy...THE greatest LOSER of the all-time greats. That is not even debatable.

[millwad]

So obvious why GayLauber joined this thread..
No one gives a damn about your Wilt essays, even Wilt-fans on ISH mocks you.

Go kill yourself, GayLauber, you are a sad person.:facepalm

[jlauber]

So obvious why GayLauber joined this thread..
No one gives a damn about your Wilt essays, even Wilt-fans on ISH mocks you.

Go kill yourself, GayLauber, you are a sad person.:facepalm

Of course, it was YOU who brought WILT into this discussion!!!

[millwad]

Meanwhile, Hakeem ROUTINELY took his team's down in flames in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs. EIGHT times in 15 post-seasons. And not only that, they seldom won more than ONE game in those first round losses. Just DISGRACEFUL!

Wilt in the post-season... >>>>>>>>>>> Hakeem. Not even worth discussing. In fact, the more I look at Moses, the better he looks. I now have Moses ahead of Hakeem on my all-time list. He was certainly far more dominant against his peers, including a much more prime Kareem.

Hakeem's legacy...THE greatest LOSER of the all-time greats. That is not even debatable.

Again a post full of nonsense. I've asked you a thousand times what years Hakeem should have made it further or even won it all considering who he played with but you have no clue, you always type "every year" because you are full of nonsense, you have no idea.

You can write with capital letters all you want and react like a pathetic old man but fact still remains that Hakeem has the same amount of rings as Wilt so the "greatest loser"-nonsense is just pathetic. In that case Wilt has a much stronger case, the great Wilt had to let others take over the scoring so he could win..:facepalm

And especially considering that Olajuwon actually lead his teams in scoring, not like Wilt who couldn't do crap as the leading scorer of his teams. Wilt won while being the tied 2nd option in '67 and the freaking 4th option in '72. That shows how uneffective Wilt as a scorer really was, he couldn't win crap while being the first option and he had to let others take over the scoring to win.

And yeah, Wilt in the postseason who couldn't win and who dropped with freaking 8 points per game in terms of scoring and also dropped in terms of FG%..

The funny thing is that Hakeem both has a better scoring average in the playoffs and a better FG% in the playoffs compared to Wilt, so much for the amazing scorer Wilt..:facepalm

4th option Wilt, haha.. Come on, Jlauber, write another essay, you can do it.. Sad f'ck.

[millwad]

Of course, it was YOU who brought WILT into this discussion!!!

Oh, my god, poor Jlauber..

I wrote one sentence about Wilt and it was more about you and how stupid you are and how full you are of contradiction..

You answered with 2 essays, you're so pathetic.. You just wait around 'til someone even mentions Wilt's name so you can hi-jacks threads like crazy. You're a joke, even Wilt-fans laugh at you..

[Big#50]

But he falls for the moves of a 22 year old Stoudemire..:facepalm

Hakeem would have done the same thing to TD as he did to Robinson.
Did you even watch basketball back then? Amare had one of the fastest first steps of all bigs. How did TIM fall for those? Hakeem would not stay in front of Amare either BTW. Amare was such an athletic freak before the injury. He was like Blake back then.

[Whoah10115]

Hakeem did outplay Kareem, regardless of any other note. Hakeem did destroy the Lakers. Hakeem Olajuwon is the reason the champions got beat. Hakeem is better at his prime and I think he has the better career.



And why would Hakeem not destroy Duncan in THAT series? Duncan in his prime sure as hell isn't near the defender Robinson is. Just as with Hakeem, Robinson is arguably the best defender of the last 30 years. Duncan not falling for fakes is supposed to change that series? That's stupid.



The difference between Shaq and Hakeem in the 95 Finals is the difference in the series: a victory for the Rockets and a sweep.


The prime and peak is in Hakeem's favor and that's why he's better overall, as their longevity is similar.





Oh, my god, poor Jlauber..

I wrote one sentence about Wilt and it was more about you and how stupid you are and how full you are of contradiction..

You answered with 2 essays, you're so pathetic.. You just wait around 'til someone even mentions Wilt's name so you can hi-jacks threads like crazy. You're a joke, even Wilt-fans laugh at you..



You did bring Wilt into it so it's a cheap shot and irrelevant and it lessens your argument.

[Big#50]

Hakeem did outplay Kareem, regardless of any other note. Hakeem did destroy the Lakers. Hakeem Olajuwon is the reason the champions got beat. Hakeem is better at his prime and I think he has the better career.



And why would Hakeem not destroy Duncan in THAT series? Duncan in his prime sure as hell isn't near the defender Robinson is. Just as with Hakeem, Robinson is arguably the best defender of the last 30 years. Duncan not falling for fakes is supposed to change that series? That's stupid.



The difference between Shaq and Hakeem in the 95 Finals is the difference in the series: a victory for the Rockets and a sweep.


The prime and peak is in Hakeem's favor and that's why he's better overall, as their longevity is similar.








You did bring Wilt into it so it's a cheap shot and irrelevant and it lessens your argument.
Duncan not being shook by the spotlight is what will make all the difference. He wouldn't have that deer caught in the headlights look like DROB. TIM is a better one on one defender. Robinson shrunk in his biggest match and series ever. TIM never did that. It actually brought the best out of him. TIM is a big stage player. I would want to see Hakeem try those dream shakes on the 04 and 05 Pistons interior D. LOL

[millwad]

Did you even watch basketball back then? Amare had one of the fastest first steps of all bigs. How did TIM fall for those? Hakeem would not stay in front of Amare either BTW. Amare was such an athletic freak before the injury. He was like Blake back then.

I know...

Amare was amazing, greatest big man ever in NBA history. Kareem, Moses, Parish, Ewing, Robinson, Mourning and Shaq would have no chance against the 22 year old Amare..:oldlol:

Hakeem was a better defender than Duncan to start with and he was faster as well.

[millwad]

Duncan not being shook by the spotlight is what will make all the difference. He wouldn't have that deer caught in the headlights look like DROB. TIM is a better one on one defender. Robinson shrunk in his biggest match and series ever. TIM never did that. It actually brought the best out of him. TIM is a big stage player. I would want to see Hakeem try those dream shakes on the 04 and 05 Pistons interior D. LOL

Was that why old ass Robinson had to defend Shaq instead of prime TD?

And yeah, Hakeem would never have been able to do anything at all vs the Pistons, haha.

Get real, Hakeem was a better offensive player and a better defensive player compared to Duncan. Duncan during the '05 finals vs the Pistons averaged 20 points on 42% shooting, in fact, he got outshot in terms of FG% by the guard Manu and the freaking point guard Parker. It's safe to say that Hakeem would have done it better.

[Big#50]

I know...

Amare was amazing, greatest big man ever in NBA history. Kareem, Moses, Parish, Ewing, Robinson, Mourning and Shaq would have no chance against the 22 year old Amare..:oldlol:

Hakeem was a better defender than Duncan to start with and he was faster as well.
Not one of those guys can stay in front of Amare. You take your Hakeem love too far.

[Big#50]

Was that why old ass Robinson had to defend Shaq instead of prime TD?

And yeah, Hakeem would never have been able to do anything at all vs the Pistons, haha.

Get real, Hakeem was a better offensive player and a better defensive player compared to Duncan. Duncan during the '05 finals vs the Pistons averaged 20 points on 42% shooting, in fact, he got outshot in terms of FG% by the guard Manu and the freaking point guard Parker. It's safe to say that Hakeem would have done it better.
Hakeem would not be able to execute one of those slow as **** shakes on Detroit. You didn't watch Detroit.

[millwad]

Hakeem would not be able to execute one of those slow as **** shakes on Detroit. You didn't watch Detroit.

Haha, Tim Duncan is a way slower player than Hakeem Olajuwon...:facepalm

[ninephive]

Was that why old ass Robinson had to defend Shaq instead of prime TD?

And yeah, Hakeem would never have been able to do anything at all vs the Pistons, haha.

Get real, Hakeem was a better offensive player and a better defensive player compared to Duncan. Duncan during the '05 finals vs the Pistons averaged 20 points on 42% shooting, in fact, he got outshot in terms of FG% by the guard Manu and the freaking point guard Parker. It's safe to say that Hakeem would have done it better.
The past 2 FMVPs haven't shot that well. And Parker...whose FMVP shooting percentage was WAY higher than Hakeem's ever was.

[millwad]

Not one of those guys can stay in front of Amare. You take your Hakeem love too far.

Suddenly a 22 year old Amare Stoudemire became one of the greatest offensive players of all-time...

So who could stay in front of Amare then? We know that Duncan had no chance..

Pau Gasol in the playoffs that year stopped Amare way better than what TD did, this must mean that Gasol officially is the GOAT defender..:oldlol: :facepalm

And finally, you're a Robinson buttyboy, just check your nick..:facepalm

[millwad]

The past 2 FMVPs haven't shot that well. And Parker...whose FMVP shooting percentage was WAY higher than Hakeem's ever was.

Tony Parker > Hakeem Olajuwon

Tony Parker > Tim Duncan

Tony Parker = GOAT

[ninephive]

Tony Parker > Hakeem Olajuwon

Tony Parker > Tim Duncan

Tony Parker = GOAT
Nope, just showing you that getting outshot by Parker percentage-wise isn't that big a deal (like you made it out to be by using the words "freaking point guard"). Jordan never shot as well percentage-wise in the Finals as Parker either...it's not that big of a deal...he shoots a very high percentage in his career.

[millwad]

Nope, just showing you that getting outshot by Parker percentage-wise isn't that big a deal (like you made it out to be by using the words "freaking point guard"). Jordan never shot as well percentage-wise in the Finals as Parker either...it's not that big of a deal...he shoots a very high percentage in his career.

The series vs Cavs was obviously a great one for TP and amazing shooting for a PG. In '05 Duncan only made 42% of his shots vs the Pistons, it's a great luxury for a big man that both his PG and SG outshoots him in a finals series, and especially when neither of them even made 50% of their shots.

Now go and compare that to '94 when Olajuwon's 2nd best scorer was Maxwell who only average 13.8 points per game in the playoffs on 38% shooting. Comparing the amount of rings is not really fair when TD had the luxury of playing with better players and even a player who got the FMVP over Duncan in one of those years..

[La Frescobaldi]

Same reason some people rank Russell over Chamberlain; Duncan has more rings.

Teammates don't matter, coaches don't matter, other teams in the league of their time don't matter, the folly of owners and GMs doesn't matter.

Skills on the court, ability to demolish opposing teams offense, offensive moves and threats, ability to take over games, post game, ability to stay on the court with the toughest defensive assignments - none of that matters.

Just count rings.

I'm not necessarily saying Hakeem was better than Timmy Dunkin' .

But that's why " Ppl Rank Duncan Over Olajuwon "

[rmt]

Was that why old ass Robinson had to defend Shaq instead of prime TD?

And yeah, Hakeem would never have been able to do anything at all vs the Pistons, haha.

Get real, Hakeem was a better offensive player and a better defensive player compared to Duncan. Duncan during the '05 finals vs the Pistons averaged 20 points on 42% shooting, in fact, he got outshot in terms of FG% by the guard Manu and the freaking point guard Parker. It's safe to say that Hakeem would have done it better.

Are you questioning the importance of TD averaging 20.6 points / 14.1 rebs / 2.1 asst / 0.4 steals / 2.1 blks against the reigning DPOY Ben Wallace, Rasheed and Dice vs Parker 13.9 pts / 2.4 rebs / 3.5 asst / 0.3 steals / 0.1 blks. If you're going by FG%, I guess TD had a better steal percentage than TP too.

[Euroleague]

Anyone that thinks Duncan is better than Olajuwon, or even as good as him - is retarded. PERIOD.

End of discussion.

[Euroleague]

[QUOTE=LBJMVP]For all you out there who love to complain when Americans, and certain others, call

[gengiskhan]

:coleman: :coleman: :coleman:

Because

Duncan won back-2-back DPOY & olaijawon didnt

Duncan swept NBA MVP, DPOY, FMVP in same year, Olaijawon didnt

Duncan did not play with all-time great big man D-Rob, Olaijawon did

Duncan won "marquee" match in NBA Finals vs Ewing & Shaq, Olaijawon didnt

so

Duncan >> Olaijawon

[ImmortalNemesis]

:coleman: :coleman: :coleman:

Because

Duncan won back-2-back DPOY & olaijawon didnt

Duncan won NBA MVP, DPOY, FMVP in same year, Olaijawon didnt

Duncan did not play with all-time great big man, Olaijawon did

Duncan won "marquee" match in NBA Finals vs Ewing & Saq, Olaijawon didnt

so

Duncan >> Olaijawon

:coleman:

[PTB Fan]

M'eh. This is debatable and it can go to either side. I'd roll with Duncan. Both guys IMO can go as high as #1 on the all time list with solid cases. BTW, Timmy has solid case for the honor of GOAT defender as well, but Hakeem's case is slightly better.

[Dizzle-2k7]

jlauber killed this thread

duncan > hakeem

[linZoMourning]

jlauber killed this thread

duncan > hakeem

time and time again. thread after same thread.

[PTB Fan]

:coleman: :coleman: :coleman:

Because

Duncan won back-2-back DPOY & olaijawon didnt

Duncan swept NBA MVP, DPOY, FMVP in same year, Olaijawon didnt

Duncan did not play with all-time great big man D-Rob, Olaijawon did

Duncan won "marquee" match in NBA Finals vs Ewing & Shaq, Olaijawon didnt

so

Duncan >> Olaijawon

:biggums: :biggums:

[Big#50]

Suddenly a 22 year old Amare Stoudemire became one of the greatest offensive players of all-time...

So who could stay in front of Amare then? We know that Duncan had no chance..

Pau Gasol in the playoffs that year stopped Amare way better than what TD did, this must mean that Gasol officially is the GOAT defender..:oldlol: :facepalm

And finally, you're a Robinson buttyboy, just check your nick..:facepalm
I'm giving props to Amare. You're bashing TIM because at 260 he can't stay in front of freak athlete Amare who weighs about 235. Just kill yourself. WTF does Robinson have to do with this? If you watched that series, you would know Amare did most of his damage from Nash pnr. Just go away. Hakeem did his thing for two years while MJ was gone. Good for him. He is one of the best players ever. One series against a soft Robinson while MJ was out gambling doesn't make him way better than any big. Duncan played in an era where the bigs had it tough. The league didn't want him to succeed, and he still accomplished more than Hakeem. Bye