RRR3's Incredibly Long Rant on LeBron, "Clutchness", and Being a fan of an Athlete

[RRR3]

When LeBron James is discussed these days, his alleged lack of "killer instinct" (a term that is, in my opinion, a euphemism for "we can't define X, so we will use a vague term as a cop out when discussing X") is often brought up. "Killer instinct" or the "Clutch Gene", to quote noted buffoon Skip Bayless, can generally be said to be "the ability, and desire, to improve one's performance at a pivotal, pressure-packed point in time", i.e. "rising to the occasion", or at least that is my understanding of it. Anyways, the following long-winded essay by me is basically me showing the puzzling, almost Jekyl and Hyde nature of LeBron James's play in "clutch" situations throughout his NBA career. While he has had many great moments, he has had his share of stinkers as well (most infamously the 2011 NBA finals). I am a LeBron James fan, so make of what I say as you will, but I do not think the things I am going to write about are all that ludicrous.

From his rookie year through his penultimate season with the Cleveland Cavaliers, LeBron seemed to fit the definition of clutch fairly well.
In the 2006 playoffs, the first playoffs of his career, LeBron displayed "clutchness" against the Washington Wizards (yes, they weren't a good team, that's not the point, he still "rose to the occasion"). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd0lqbXVRyQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AwnU9tqe9o&feature=related. I realize that LeBron travels on at least one of these plays, but superstars have long gotten away with traveling, and the point is that LeBron in these cases showed that he was not afraid of the moment and was willing to take and make big shots.
At age 22 in the 2007 season, he led a ragtag group of players to the NBA finals, along the way putting up one of the most incredible peformances in NBA history, scoring 29 of his team's last 30 points, including the game winner in OT, in game 5 of the ECF against the Pistons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU It certainly seemed LeBron was displaying a "killer instinct" here. LeBron helped the Cavs reach the finals against the San Antonio Spurs dynasty later this postseason, but struggled mightily against the Spurs, shooting just 36 percent while the Cavs were swept in 4 games. In LeBron's defense, no one expected him to get the Cavaliers (who at this time were really a poor team outside of LBJ) to the finals, and no one expected him to defeat the Spurs once he had gotten there. While LeBron's performance was certainly underwhelming, he could not be accused of "giving up" or "being scared" (which are more recent criticisms of him), because he certainly wasn't taking too few shots. He was also a young and still very raw player at this time, and was nowhere near the shooter or defender he is today.

A quick break from old video clips to show some "clutch stats". Now, I realize many will argue that you cannot define "clutch" as it is an intangible, but here are the "clutch" stats from LeBron's last three seasons as a Cavalier in the regular season...
2007-08: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
2008-09: http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
2009-10: http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
Now, I would like to point out that in each of these three seasons, the top two players on these rankings of "clutchness" are LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. Kobe has a great reputation as being a clutch player, and in this case, the stats would seem to support that claim. Keeping that in mind, consider that LeBron is right there with Kobe in each of these three years. Because of this, I think it is fairly hard to argue that these stats are biased towards LeBron and against Kobe (which, I assume, many were ready to scream out as soon as they read the last few sentences), or that they are necessarily untrue, because these stats do support the claim that Kobe is a great "clutch" player. Perhaps, then, at least in the seasons the data was compiled from, LeBron was a great clutch player as well.

Moving on to 2008-09, the first year LeBron won MVP and the year many consider his best to this day. LeBron not only was superb in the regular season, he was brilliant in the playoffs as well, averaging 35/9/7 and shooting 51% over the course of 14 games. In the ECF against the Magic, LeBron was simply dominant, averaging 38/8/8 and shooting nearly 50% (these numbers are IIRC, if I erred please let me know) and hitting a shot that was the very definition of "clutch": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fD1MNjkPFs The Cavaliers were eventually defeated in 6 games, but no one could fault LeBron, who did everything in his power to get his team to the finals. Some have theorized that this caused the first seeds of doubt to creep into LeBron's mind (although this is armchair psychology).

In 2009-10, LeBron repeated as MVP, and Led the Cavaliers to their best record ever (IIRC) in the regular season, helping them gain the number one seed for the playoffs. Although many expected the Cavaliers to make the Finals (this Cavs team was much better than the ones earlier in LBJ's career, although I personally do not believe they were really championship caliber) they lost in the ECSF to the Boston Celtics. Unlike his incredible performance against the Magic in 2009, LeBron's performance in this series disappointed many and caused many to question his commitment to the Cavaliers franchise (he was an upcoming FA at the time). This was when LeBron being a "quitter and a choker" and "scared of the moment" first became more popular sentiments.

Going off on another tangent before I discuss LeBron's play with the Miami Heat the past season and a half:
LeBron was one of the NBA's most popular and well-liked players for many years. However, this all changed completely when he announced, on a television special, that he would be "taking his talents to south beach", which lost him many of his fans and made him public enemy number one in Cleveland. While LeBron's actions in regards to his free agency and the Cavaliers were certainly tactless, thoughtless, and displayed a lack of consideration of how his decision might affect people, I was still surprised at the amount of vitriol he received (and continues to receive), even outside of Cleveland. I myself was disappointed in LeBron's actions, and was unsure of whether to still cheer for him (obviously, I eventually choose to continue being a fan). Even so, I was not completely able to understand the emotions of Cavaliers fans until a recent event in St. Louis (my home) Sports allowed me, in my opinion at least, to be able to empathize in some ways with Cleveland fans. This event was the departure of our baseball teams' superstar, Albert Pujols.



(continued)

[G-Funk]

I didn't read

[RRR3]

(continued)




A bit of background about me as a baseball fan and on Pujols:
My family and I first moved to STL when I was nearly six years old. I attended a few baseball games then (at the time a roided-up McGwire was hitting 70 homeruns) but was not a real fan then. I liked Ray Lankford, a star outfielder, but did not follow him or the Cardinals particularly closely. When I was around 8 or 9 is when I really started to get into baseball, a passion that remained strong until recently (more on that in a bit). Jim Edmonds, the Cardinals Center fielder, became my idol, and he remains my favorite athlete of all time to this day. At this time, Pujols was a rookie sensation, seemingly coming out of nowhere and becoming a superstar right from day 1. At the time, I resented the attention Pujols got, as being an immature 3rd or 4th grader, I was unhappy that Edmonds was often overshadowed by Pujols, who at the time was also an outfielder (but a poor one, which frustrated me because Edmonds was a great CF). As time went on (and Pujols moved to first base, where he became excellent at defense) I came to realize how transcendent a talent he was. To this day, he is the best player I have ever seen, and he is truly worthy of comparisons to the most revered legends in baseball history. anyways...I became a fan of Pujols, realizing how lucky we were to have him. When an old and declining Edmonds was traded to San Diego, Pujols became my favorite player on the Cardinals (Edmonds remained my favorite in the MLB, of course), and remained so until he left as a free agent. So, when a classmate told me that Pujols had signed with the Angels as a free agent, I was stunned and almost incapable of believing it. Pujols, like LeBron w/ the Cavs, had led the Cardinals fans to believe he would remain here for his entire career, often mentioning how he was "not about the money" and would give STL a "hometown discount". Being a "Cardinal for life" was something he greatly desired, he said. So, despite all the uncertainty I assumed Pujols would sign with the Cardinals until the end. He of course did not, and while St. Louis did not, I think, react quite like Cleveland did, do not think that Pujols is not hated by a fair deal of fans here--->http://cbsstlouis.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/pujols-jersey-burn.jpg?w=300
Pujols' departure made me understand how Cavs fans felt when LeBron left, and I was angry at Pujols for what I felt was a betrayal of sorts. I am no longer a fan of his, and cannot say I have the same respect I once did for him as a person, BUT-I still recognize his greatness on the playing field, respect him for his ability, and am appreciative for the great things he did while with the Cardinals. Perhaps my feelings may change when I see the Cardinals play w/o him this year, and when I see him playing in an LA uniform, but I cannot say yet. My point is that, at that moment, I am still kind of in disbelief that he left, but that I do not hate him, nor do I wish him misfortune, and that I do not and will try hard not to let my anger at his leaving influence my opinion of him as a player. I think that LeBron is deserving of the same, but by no means do I blame Cavs fans for hating him, this is just my opinion from experiencing a similar situation (it IS similar, Cavs fans, sorry. You like to tell us how we don't understand cause we're not from Cleveland, well it works both ways...you're not from St. Louis!). LeBron and Pujols are both human beings, and like all of us make mistakes, and we do not have to like them or respect their personalities, but they are not criminals, and have not done anything that I believe warrants such longlasting hatred, people who were not fans of them in the first place. I will never be a fan of Pujols the way I once was (I can't say I'll never be a fan again, though it doesn't look good right now), but I have mostly moved on from what happened and do not intend to continue to focus on it too much. I think it is somewhat irrational that we revere athletes so much in the first place, when it is in fact a business, although I admittedly am guilty of doing this in regards to Pujols.


On to LeBron's tenure with the Heat:
When the Heat's "Big 3" came together last season, they were routinely booed vociferously in every arena they visited. The media scrutiny towards them was at an unprecedented level, particularly on LeBron James. Perhaps affected by the constant rebukes, LeBron made some ill-advised comments throughout the season. His play was also possibly affected, as he experienced a lot of trouble in games that went down to the wire (IIRC he was 1-8 on game winners). At this point in time, at least, LeBron could'nt be accused of not taking the shots, although he was slammed for not converting. Anyways, after the Heat defeated the 76ers in the first round of the playoffs, they met the Boston Celtics, a team LeBron had had his fair share of problems with in the playoffs, to say the least. Both LeBron and Wade were superb in this ECSF, though, with Wade simply dominating the Celtics at times. It was LeBron, however to the shock of many, who stepped up in "crunch time", most notably in game 5 where he closed out the Celtics in decisive fashion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pjqDKoZohI The Heat then played the first-seeded Chicago Bulls in the ECF, and many thought LeBron's run was over after the Bulls trounced the Heat in the opener. However, LeBron then took over the series, while Dwyane Wade struggled mightily, routinely dominating the 4th quarters with his scoring and playing admirable defense on the MVP Derrick Rose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEstWozRQp0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8UFPd99B0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb8S50fndPs. The Heat advanced to the NBA finals against the Mavericks, and many believed LeBron had overcome his struggles for good. However, after a game 1 victory, LeBron severely underperformed against the Mavs, playing much too passively, and deferring to Wade all too often. In "crunch time" against the Mavs, he was practically invisible in games 2-5, and when he finally had a decent 4th quarter in game 6, it was too little, too late. LeBron's play in the finals, which can only be described as awful (by his standards) led many to write him off as a "choker" who had always been such (which I hope I have shown is not the case). His play was definitely puzzling, to say the least, and is something which he needs to atone for this season by having a dominant finals performance, but it was not an instance that was a microcosm of his entire career. This current NBA season, LeBron has been great once again, although he has looked too tentative and indecisive in close games at times. It is possible that the constant criticism has gotten to him, and he has begun to doubt his own abilities to an extent where he struggles mightily to step up (or attempt to step up, I guess) in the "clutch". He did have a clutch game against the Detroit Pistons this year, but that has been ignored or dismissed by most, and admittedly the Pistons aren't exactly stiff competition. Nonetheless, he was at least aggressive in that game. LeBron's recent admission that he should have taken the last shot in the All-Star Game, is, I hope, a sign that he is working to overcome his "handicap", if you will.

So that's all I have to say, I'm sure most of you won't read it or will just say something ignorant and make hasty generalizations, but I had a lot to say and I hope that some people will at least read part of this.



/:rant

[dunksby]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Chloe_Moretz.gif

[Droid101]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/did%20not%20read/grand/2ro0w2g.gif

[LBJMVP]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif

[SpecialQue]

https://s1-01.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/525428781.gif

I actually did read some of it though.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

won't read the OP, but the gifs were funny!

[RRR3]

https://s1-01.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/525428781.gif

I actually did read some of it though.
:cheers: Also, in keeping up with our earlier discussion :D
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/9/5/8fd1eb81-b09b-4c2e-a813-3fe708f6c936.jpg

[SpecialQue]

:cheers: Also, in keeping up with our earlier discussion :D
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/9/5/8fd1eb81-b09b-4c2e-a813-3fe708f6c936.jpg

Fine. I'll read the fvcking thing after I eat dinner.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Yea...I didn't read all of that....

Killing me with all that text bruh.

[chazzy]

Read the Heat part. He really hasn't been very clutch since joining Miami. Can't drive to the basket against a set defense the way he used to and doesn't trust his improved jumper enough. When he DOES trust it, he's still deadly.. just in a different way than before (middle two rounds of the playoffs). I think the accumulated flack he gets for his misses are getting to him, to the point where he's had two games in this season alone where he missed at least two consecutive clutch FTs. That's when you know it's partly mental. And lately, the running narrative hasn't been his misses (like it was last regular season), it's been his eagerness to give up the ball in these situations.

[bagelred]

well said. couldn't agree more. :cheers:









did not read

[Tenchi Ryu]

well said. couldn't agree more. :cheers:









did not read
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[RRR3]

well said. couldn't agree more. :cheers:









did not read
:roll: :roll: :applause: :cheers: You always make me laugh even if you didn't read my post :D

[BlackJoker23]

When LeBron James is discussed these days, his alleged lack of "killer instinct" (a term that is, in my opinion, a euphemism for "we can't define X, so we will use a vague term as a cop out when discussing X") is often brought up. "Killer instinct" or the "Clutch Gene", to quote noted buffoon Skip Bayless, can generally be said to be "the ability, and desire, to improve one's performance at a pivotal, pressure-packed point in time", i.e. "rising to the occasion", or at least that is my understanding of it. Anyways, the following long-winded essay by me is basically me showing the puzzling, almost Jekyl and Hyde nature of LeBron James's play in "clutch" situations throughout his NBA career. While he has had many great moments, he has had his share of stinkers as well (most infamously the 2011 NBA finals). I am a LeBron James fan, so make of what I say as you will, but I do not think the things I am going to write about are all that ludicrous.

From his rookie year through his penultimate season with the Cleveland Cavaliers, LeBron seemed to fit the definition of clutch fairly well.
In the 2006 playoffs, the first playoffs of his career, LeBron displayed "clutchness" against the Washington Wizards (yes, they weren't a good team, that's not the point, he still "rose to the occasion"). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd0lqbXVRyQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AwnU9tqe9o&feature=related. I realize that LeBron travels on at least one of these plays, but superstars have long gotten away with traveling, and the point is that LeBron in these cases showed that he was not afraid of the moment and was willing to take and make big shots.
At age 22 in the 2007 season, he led a ragtag group of players to the NBA finals, along the way putting up one of the most incredible peformances in NBA history, scoring 29 of his team's last 30 points, including the game winner in OT, in game 5 of the ECF against the Pistons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU It certainly seemed LeBron was displaying a "killer instinct" here. LeBron helped the Cavs reach the finals against the San Antonio Spurs dynasty later this postseason, but struggled mightily against the Spurs, shooting just 36 percent while the Cavs were swept in 4 games. In LeBron's defense, no one expected him to get the Cavaliers (who at this time were really a poor team outside of LBJ) to the finals, and no one expected him to defeat the Spurs once he had gotten there. While LeBron's performance was certainly underwhelming, he could not be accused of "giving up" or "being scared" (which are more recent criticisms of him), because he certainly wasn't taking too few shots. He was also a young and still very raw player at this time, and was nowhere near the shooter or defender he is today.

A quick break from old video clips to show some "clutch stats". Now, I realize many will argue that you cannot define "clutch" as it is an intangible, but here are the "clutch" stats from LeBron's last three seasons as a Cavalier in the regular season...
2007-08: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
2008-09: http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
2009-10: http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
Now, I would like to point out that in each of these three seasons, the top two players on these rankings of "clutchness" are LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. Kobe has a great reputation as being a clutch player, and in this case, the stats would seem to support that claim. Keeping that in mind, consider that LeBron is right there with Kobe in each of these three years. Because of this, I think it is fairly hard to argue that these stats are biased towards LeBron and against Kobe (which, I assume, many were ready to scream out as soon as they read the last few sentences), or that they are necessarily untrue, because these stats do support the claim that Kobe is a great "clutch" player. Perhaps, then, at least in the seasons the data was compiled from, LeBron was a great clutch player as well.

Moving on to 2008-09, the first year LeBron won MVP and the year many consider his best to this day. LeBron not only was superb in the regular season, he was brilliant in the playoffs as well, averaging 35/9/7 and shooting 51% over the course of 14 games. In the ECF against the Magic, LeBron was simply dominant, averaging 38/8/8 and shooting nearly 50% (these numbers are IIRC, if I erred please let me know) and hitting a shot that was the very definition of "clutch": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fD1MNjkPFs The Cavaliers were eventually defeated in 6 games, but no one could fault LeBron, who did everything in his power to get his team to the finals. Some have theorized that this caused the first seeds of doubt to creep into LeBron's mind (although this is armchair psychology).

In 2009-10, LeBron repeated as MVP, and Led the Cavaliers to their best record ever (IIRC) in the regular season, helping them gain the number one seed for the playoffs. Although many expected the Cavaliers to make the Finals (this Cavs team was much better than the ones earlier in LBJ's career, although I personally do not believe they were really championship caliber) they lost in the ECSF to the Boston Celtics. Unlike his incredible performance against the Magic in 2009, LeBron's performance in this series disappointed many and caused many to question his commitment to the Cavaliers franchise (he was an upcoming FA at the time). This was when LeBron being a "quitter and a choker" and "scared of the moment" first became more popular sentiments.

Going off on another tangent before I discuss LeBron's play with the Miami Heat the past season and a half:
LeBron was one of the NBA's most popular and well-liked players for many years. However, this all changed completely when he announced, on a television special, that he would be "taking his talents to south beach", which lost him many of his fans and made him public enemy number one in Cleveland. While LeBron's actions in regards to his free agency and the Cavaliers were certainly tactless, thoughtless, and displayed a lack of consideration of how his decision might affect people, I was still surprised at the amount of vitriol he received (and continues to receive), even outside of Cleveland. I myself was disappointed in LeBron's actions, and was unsure of whether to still cheer for him (obviously, I eventually choose to continue being a fan). Even so, I was not completely able to understand the emotions of Cavaliers fans until a recent event in St. Louis (my home) Sports allowed me, in my opinion at least, to be able to empathize in some ways with Cleveland fans. This event was the departure of our baseball teams' superstar, Albert Pujols.



(continued)
http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m555/impactthemasses/okc1p1.gif

[LBJMVP]

well said. couldn't agree more. :cheers:





did not read


http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/ChicoBlue/HAHA.gif

[RRR3]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/ChicoBlue/HAHA.gif
http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/gothmog1.jpg

[Indian guy]

When he DOES trust it, he's still deadly.. just in a different way than before (middle two rounds of the playoffs).

To do damage with the jumper for a sustained period in close games, you have to be uber-skilled in the mold of MJ, Bird, Kobe and Dirk. Guys who could get jumpers off in a million ways. LeBron's not that player. And unlike last season, he's having a poor jump shooting season(sub-39% shooting from 16-23 feet) to boot. So even if he does trust his jumper, it won't make a big difference. He's having the WORST 4th qtr of his career this season. Just abysmal numbers. There's a reason for that.

Look at the top clutch players in the NBA today - Rose, Durant, Westbrook and CP3, they can all penetrate and weave through defenses at will. Someone at realgm said it best the other day. For 95% of stars in this league, all they have to do to turn it on is simply play harder. For LeBron, he has to hope his jumper's on, which would have been OK had he always been that player, but he's not. He's a guy who's always depended on his athleticism first, to ask him to suddenly become a jump shooter during the most crucial stretch of the game is unrealistic. That's the biggest reason why he's generally invisible or unwilling in BIG moments today.

[Sarcastic]

http://thewebsitemanagers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/cliff-notes-funny-image.jpg

[Doranku]

LeBron was one of the best clutch players in the league when he played for Cleveland. It felt like every night he was leading the Cavs in late game flurries to overcome 4th quarter deficits.

But he has been awful in the clutch since coming to Miami. I don't see how that can be disputed.

[TheAesirsFinest]

^Yup. How quickly people forget.

Can't say it was very enlightening for me since I too am a LeBron fan and knew this already. Lucky for you, I was eating something and needed something to read.

I'd like to point out though that Cav Lebron was overwhelmingly athletic and had freedom with the ball when the game was on the line. On the Heat, most of his misses in crunch time were due to a mix of bad spacing, broken down plays, low % shots, etc.

God, LeBron really needs to wake up and realize that he's the best player on the planet though. When he's having fun and plays with a cocky body language, he's unstoppable. Like that fading to the left, loose-ball, deep 3 pointer he made yesterday in the 4th. Ill-advised shot, but he got nothing but net.

Oh yeah, I also wish he would learn his own strengths and weaknesses. He's so damn deadly from the elbow facing up.

[Bigsmoke]

good shit RRR3

keep dropping dat knowledge my nig :applause:

[Asukal]

Hmmmmmmmm duno. Maybe Lebron IS clutch but the doubts keep him on check all the time. :confusedshrug:

[PickernRoller]

An LBJ fan making another thread to redeem LBJ from what happened yesterday night.

http://partisanmeme.com/images/ron-paul/i-didnt-read-the-post-but-so-brave.jpg

[Living Being]

Read first half. You defended LeFail well, my son.

[Rnbizzle]

I actually read it all, found it interesting and agreed on I guess everything. :applause:

[kNIOKAS]

When LeBron James is discussed these days, his alleged lack of "killer instinct" (a term that is, in my opinion, a euphemism for "we can't define X, so we will use a vague term as a cop out when discussing X") is often brought up. "Killer instinct" or the "Clutch Gene", to quote noted buffoon Skip Bayless, can generally be said to be "the ability, and desire, to improve one's performance at a pivotal, pressure-packed point in time", i.e. "rising to the occasion", or at least that is my understanding of it. Anyways, the following long-winded essay by me is basically me showing the puzzling, almost Jekyl and Hyde nature of LeBron James's play in "clutch" situations throughout his NBA career. While he has had many great moments, he has had his share of stinkers as well (most infamously the 2011 NBA finals). I am a LeBron James fan, so make of what I say as you will, but I do not think the things I am going to write about are all that ludicrous.

From his rookie year through his penultimate season with the Cleveland Cavaliers, LeBron seemed to fit the definition of clutch fairly well.
In the 2006 playoffs, the first playoffs of his career, LeBron displayed "clutchness" against the Washington Wizards (yes, they weren't a good team, that's not the point, he still "rose to the occasion"). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd0lqbXVRyQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AwnU9tqe9o&feature=related. I realize that LeBron travels on at least one of these plays, but superstars have long gotten away with traveling, and the point is that LeBron in these cases showed that he was not afraid of the moment and was willing to take and make big shots.
At age 22 in the 2007 season, he led a ragtag group of players to the NBA finals, along the way putting up one of the most incredible peformances in NBA history, scoring 29 of his team's last 30 points, including the game winner in OT, in game 5 of the ECF against the Pistons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU It certainly seemed LeBron was displaying a "killer instinct" here. LeBron helped the Cavs reach the finals against the San Antonio Spurs dynasty later this postseason, but struggled mightily against the Spurs, shooting just 36 percent while the Cavs were swept in 4 games. In LeBron's defense, no one expected him to get the Cavaliers (who at this time were really a poor team outside of LBJ) to the finals, and no one expected him to defeat the Spurs once he had gotten there. While LeBron's performance was certainly underwhelming, he could not be accused of "giving up" or "being scared" (which are more recent criticisms of him), because he certainly wasn't taking too few shots. He was also a young and still very raw player at this time, and was nowhere near the shooter or defender he is today.

A quick break from old video clips to show some "clutch stats". Now, I realize many will argue that you cannot define "clutch" as it is an intangible, but here are the "clutch" stats from LeBron's last three seasons as a Cavalier in the regular season...
2007-08: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
2008-09: http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
2009-10: http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
Now, I would like to point out that in each of these three seasons, the top two players on these rankings of "clutchness" are LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. Kobe has a great reputation as being a clutch player, and in this case, the stats would seem to support that claim. Keeping that in mind, consider that LeBron is right there with Kobe in each of these three years. Because of this, I think it is fairly hard to argue that these stats are biased towards LeBron and against Kobe (which, I assume, many were ready to scream out as soon as they read the last few sentences), or that they are necessarily untrue, because these stats do support the claim that Kobe is a great "clutch" player. Perhaps, then, at least in the seasons the data was compiled from, LeBron was a great clutch player as well.

Moving on to 2008-09, the first year LeBron won MVP and the year many consider his best to this day. LeBron not only was superb in the regular season, he was brilliant in the playoffs as well, averaging 35/9/7 and shooting 51% over the course of 14 games. In the ECF against the Magic, LeBron was simply dominant, averaging 38/8/8 and shooting nearly 50% (these numbers are IIRC, if I erred please let me know) and hitting a shot that was the very definition of "clutch": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fD1MNjkPFs The Cavaliers were eventually defeated in 6 games, but no one could fault LeBron, who did everything in his power to get his team to the finals. Some have theorized that this caused the first seeds of doubt to creep into LeBron's mind (although this is armchair psychology).

In 2009-10, LeBron repeated as MVP, and Led the Cavaliers to their best record ever (IIRC) in the regular season, helping them gain the number one seed for the playoffs. Although many expected the Cavaliers to make the Finals (this Cavs team was much better than the ones earlier in LBJ's career, although I personally do not believe they were really championship caliber) they lost in the ECSF to the Boston Celtics. Unlike his incredible performance against the Magic in 2009, LeBron's performance in this series disappointed many and caused many to question his commitment to the Cavaliers franchise (he was an upcoming FA at the time). This was when LeBron being a "quitter and a choker" and "scared of the moment" first became more popular sentiments.

Going off on another tangent before I discuss LeBron's play with the Miami Heat the past season and a half:
LeBron was one of the NBA's most popular and well-liked players for many years. However, this all changed completely when he announced, on a television special, that he would be "taking his talents to south beach", which lost him many of his fans and made him public enemy number one in Cleveland. While LeBron's actions in regards to his free agency and the Cavaliers were certainly tactless, thoughtless, and displayed a lack of consideration of how his decision might affect people, I was still surprised at the amount of vitriol he received (and continues to receive), even outside of Cleveland. I myself was disappointed in LeBron's actions, and was unsure of whether to still cheer for him (obviously, I eventually choose to continue being a fan). Even so, I was not completely able to understand the emotions of Cavaliers fans until a recent event in St. Louis (my home) Sports allowed me, in my opinion at least, to be able to empathize in some ways with Cleveland fans. This event was the departure of our baseball teams' superstar, Albert Pujols.



(continued)
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc489/niokulis/didntreadM.gif

[Bladers]

http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064224789122.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064144409844.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064218528528.gif http://nsa25.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064222688129.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/03/04/110304062927733416.gifhttp://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5168/unclutchjames.gif

http://h12.abload.de/img/untitled-3676ug4.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/03/07/110307120215365093.gif

/thread

[AlphaWolf24]

I read it...


recap for all those who didn't read it or want the short version...

"Lebron started out great and tried hard...he made some clutch shots!"

"But even after all those great shots he Lost and couldn't get over the hump"

" So he quit and left his great team to join 2 other superstars so the pressure is off him in the clutch...now everyone hates him...but he is really clutch though"

[The_Yearning]

OP, didn't read.

But LBJ is a choker and the world clutch should never be in the same sentence.

Clown.

[StateOfMind12]

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/did%20not%20read/grand/hvwe28.jpg.gif


If I had to take a guess the OP just stated the obvious anyways. LeBron was clutch in Cleveland but unclutch in Miami. It's pretty simple and you have to be stupid to not understand that.

[Legends66NBA7]

Are you becoming Bruce Blitz part 2, Randy? You might as well just posted his article here too about LeBron in the clutch, to save time.

You didn't need to type out all that if you already know LeBron's a capable clutch player.

I'm surprised by this, I didn't expect you to type all that. But really, the YouTube links, the mentioning of his high times in the clutch, the comparison to Pujols, etc... I already know and seen all this. I've watched LeBron's entire career to not bring myself to random conclusions because some trolls say otherwise.

He's just not brought it in the Finals, where if he's getting comparisons to the greatest players of all-time and others are calling him the greatest to ever play... then he can't under perform. There's politics against LeBron, yes, but there are no more excuses for the guy.

He's the best in the game, but he's got to be the best ALL the way through. So until then, while some of us know he can be capable (more than capable, actually) in the clutch... he's got to do it where it matters most.

Otherwise, people are going to state claims about how he's on Jordan's level or that LeBron and Jordan are the greatest non-centers to ever play the game of basketball by citing stats and even basketball knowledge (very vague statement).

So as I've said on my topic of LeBron in the clutch many times before... just going to have wait and see again...

[dec1981]

Great read, couldn't agree with you more.:applause:

[d21221hk]

It's obvious that everytime Lebron hits a game winner, big brother dwade spanks him in the locker room. Now he's conditioned to cower in the corner and pass the ball like a hot potato in game winning situations. I mean look, Dwade fumbled the ball and then forced lebron to throw the ball to him for a fail three. Dwade, you ball so hard I wanna fine you.


not serious

[guy]

I actually agree with all of this and have been saying it for a long time. Lebron WAS clutch from the beginning of his career till right before that Celtic series in 2010. I never considered his relatively bad play in 2007 vs. the Spurs and 208 vs. the Celtics as anything more then just bad games, not choking. I don't think its fair to compare him to the likes of Karl Malone like some have cause he wasn't always a choker.

But that doesn't change the fact that that was then and this is now. In the recent past and currently he's one of the worst superstars in the clutch. He's had some of the biggest choking moments ever in the past few years, specifically 2010 vs. the Celtics and 2011 vs. the Mavs. Last night pretty much every other perimeter player in that all-star game as in Kobe, Melo, Wade, Rose, CP3, Durant, Westbrook, Parker, Pierce, Deron, Nash, Dirk, and Love would've taken that shot especially in a meaningless ASG.

[SpecialQue]

Goddamn it, man. I just read that entire fvcking thing, and it was basically just "he was clutch, then, strangely, he wasn't anymore, but now maybe he's coming back. He had a great game against the Pistons this season, too."

I was hoping for an epiphany by reading a fan's perspective, but I still have the opinion of Lebron that I've had for the past few years: great player, CAN step it up and destroy teams, but strangely hasn't been able to make that next leap to become legendary.

I'm not a baseball fan, so that stuff about Pujols explains all the hype in Anaheim about him though.

[no pun intended]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/157/234/99124221did_not_read.gif

[RRR3]

http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064224789122.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064144409844.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064218528528.gif http://nsa25.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064222688129.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/03/04/110304062927733416.gifhttp://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5168/unclutchjames.gif

http://h12.abload.de/img/untitled-3676ug4.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/03/07/110307120215365093.gif

/thread
Clearly you didn't read my posts, and he's taking the shots there, correct?

[RRR3]

Goddamn it, man. I just read that entire fvcking thing, and it was basically just "he was clutch, then, strangely, he wasn't anymore, but now maybe he's coming back. He had a great game against the Pistons this season, too."

I was hoping for an epiphany by reading a fan's perspective, but I still have the opinion of Lebron that I've had for the past few years: great player, CAN step it up and destroy teams, but strangely hasn't been able to make that next leap to become legendary.

I'm not a baseball fan, so that stuff about Pujols explains all the hype in Anaheim about him though.
Sorry :D Had a lot to say. Guess the last part is me being hopeful because right now LeBron is looking like he's determined to prove people right about him being a choker.

[Rose]

http://i52.tinypic.com/scaxcg.gif

[Rose]

http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m555/impactthemasses/okc1p1.gif

[RRR3]

Are you becoming Bruce Blitz part 2, Randy? You might as well just posted his article here too about LeBron in the clutch, to save time.

You didn't need to type out all that if you already know LeBron's a capable clutch player.
I don't know that. He was, he's not at the moment, which is weird.

I'm surprised by this, I didn't expect you to type all that. But really, the YouTube links, the mentioning of his high times in the clutch, the comparison to Pujols, etc... I already know and seen all this. I've watched LeBron's entire career to not bring myself to random conclusions because some trolls say otherwise.


He's just not brought it in the Finals, where if he's getting comparisons to the greatest players of all-time and others are calling him the greatest to ever play... then he can't under perform. There's politics against LeBron, yes, but there are no more excuses for the guy.
Didn't make any excuses for him after 2008-09 in my post IIRC

He's the best in the game, but he's got to be the best ALL the way through. So until then, while some of us know he can be capable (more than capable, actually) in the clutch... he's got to do it where it matters most.

Otherwise, people are going to state claims about how he's on Jordan's level or that LeBron and Jordan are the greatest non-centers to ever play the game of basketball by citing stats and even basketball knowledge (very vague statement).
I don't state that :confusedshrug:

So as I've said on my topic of LeBron in the clutch many times before... just going to have wait and see again...
....Also I haven't paid attention to Bruce in a while.

[The Choken One]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_z6ErUHk3F8A/TMpMbRUjCoI/AAAAAAAAAAk/FcS25wtPsMk/s1600/OMG+BLACK+GUY.gif

[Rose]

http://i48.tinypic.com/2cr6psh.jpg

[Rose]

http://i51.tinypic.com/29prjbo.gif

[Legends66NBA7]

....Also I haven't paid attention to Bruce in a while.

I know you didn't, but most of his fans sometimes do...

The part that you didn't state was by somebody else. That's my thing, he gets those comparisons... so he's go to live up to them, all the way.

As for the Bruce comparison, well... your OP reminded me of some recent article he did, sorta.

[tpols]

I hate how people act like confidence/personality/leadership dont go into the chance a player has of making a shot in a high pressure situation. Is stress not real? Do we all not deal with it in different ways? Just because you cant put a number on it, doesn't mean it's an opinion.. or even worse not even real. Thats something Lebron apologists cant really grasp because they like him in the first place because they are attracted to his numbers. It's like they have a one track mind when it comes to everything else.

[Rose]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu7c2egHey1r0rozzo1_500.gif

[DMAVS41]

Sorry :D Had a lot to say. Guess the last part is me being hopeful because right now LeBron is looking like he's determined to prove people right about him being a choker.

He has it in him, its all mental at this point. He just expected Wade to do it for him in the finals. You don't go from making every clutch shot imaginable against Boston and Chicago to nothing in the finals without a mental breakdown so to speak.

Its carried over to this year and it really could prevent the Heat from winning. I watched nearly every game Lebron played on the Cavs and he was absolutely the most clutch guy in the league since about 06. He was tremendous on both ends and on game winning shots.

Last year and this year so far? He's been terrible. No confidence...and he freezes up. Its really inexplicable.

[Rose]

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb458/vnair21/didntreadlol2.gif

[Legends66NBA7]

I hate how people act like confidence/personality/leadership dont go into the chance a player has of making a shot in a high pressure situation. Is stress not real? Do we all not deal with it in different ways? Just because you cant put a number on it, doesn't mean it's an opinion.. or even worse not even real. Thats something Lebron apologists cant really grasp because they like him in the first place because they are attracted to his numbers. It's like they have a one track mind when it comes to everything else.

I do think the pressure got to him in the Finals. There's also the part where he tries to please... everybody.

When Wade yelled at him during the Finals, how much exactly did that have an effect on him ? He probably Wade to get more of the shine for the title, but it doesn't excuse for not showing up and playing like some role player.

I think it's got to be both things, IMO.

[RRR3]

He has it in him, its all mental at this point. He just expected Wade to do it for him in the finals. You don't go from making every clutch shot imaginable against Boston and Chicago to nothing in the finals without a mental breakdown so to speak.

Its carried over to this year and it really could prevent the Heat from winning. I watched nearly every game Lebron played on the Cavs and he was absolutely the most clutch guy in the league since about 06. He was tremendous on both ends and on game winning shots.

Last year and this year so far? He's been terrible. No confidence...and he freezes up. Its really inexplicable.
Agree. LeBron needs to get over it and stop caring what others think. I really think he'll win a ring this year, but if he doesn't, then he may just be ****ed.

[DMAVS41]

I hate how people act like confidence/personality/leadership dont go into the chance a player has of making a shot in a high pressure situation. Is stress not real? Do we all not deal with it in different ways? Just because you cant put a number on it, doesn't mean it's an opinion.. or even worse not even real. Thats something Lebron apologists cant really grasp because they like him in the first place because they are attracted to his numbers. It's like they have a one track mind when it comes to everything else.

Well said.

At this point its very clear that Lebron has developed a late game complex to some extent that is preventing him from playing normally.

The interesting thing is that he really never had this....and the pressure on him in most of his Cavs days was immense....certainly it was in 09 when he was very clutch.

There is no doubt however that what you say above is true. Lebron clearly lets the pressure get to him consistently. It happens to every player...even great ones...just not to the extent it has been to Lebron.

Dirk going 1-12 in the first half last year. He was clearly anxious and the moment got to him a little.

Kobe going 6-24 in game 7 in 2010.

Stuff like that happens....but what is happening with lebron is far too frequent.

[DMAVS41]

Agree. LeBron needs to get over it and stop caring what others think. I really think he'll win a ring this year, but if he doesn't, then he may just be ****ed.

Yep. If he chokes again this year....and make no mistake, he choked last year...about as badly as one player can choke....if he does that again, it might be the end of any ability Lebron has to come through in a clutch situation.

[Lebron23]

http://europebasketball.net/basketball_wallpaper/lebron_james_playoffs_2009_buzzer_beater.jpg

[Heavincent]

http://h12.abload.de/img/untitled-3676ug4.gif [/IMG]


Melo's facial expression in that gif is absolutely priceless :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Yep. If he chokes again this year....and make no mistake, he choked last year...about as badly as one player can choke....if he does that again, it might be the end of any ability Lebron has to come through in a clutch situation.
Yeah, I hope he doesn't for his own sake and for the sanity of the basketball fanbase (both LeBron stans and haters will go nuts, but in different ways lol). None of my favorite basketball players (T-Mac, LBJ) every win anything :mad:

[tpols]

Yep. If he chokes again this year....and make no mistake, he choked last year...about as badly as one player can choke....if he does that again, it might be the end of any ability Lebron has to come through in a clutch situation.
Yea.. I kind of hope he wins at this point. But I hope if he wins it's him going on tears and really validating himself. There's no point in rooting for a guy thats this good to fail when he's done it so often now. It's like kicking a dog when its down.

[RRR3]

http://europebasketball.net/basketball_wallpaper/lebron_james_playoffs_2009_buzzer_beater.jpg
Yes that's what's puzzling. Everyone knows LBJ can be clutch, except perhaps LBJ himself. He's been making baby steps lately in the 4th quarter, I think LOL, although I hope yesterday in the ASG was just a brain fart and not an indicator of him still being passive too much.

[d21221hk]

This ASG could really be a blessing in disguise for Lebron if he learns from it. Kobe calling him out is good. I hope Dwade lets him know too behind closed doors.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

DNFR = Did not f**king read.

You can tell when something happens that Lebron fans are defensive about because they all run out and create a bunch of long nonsensical posts trying to......

a. Blame someone else

b. Tell you that it's not important

c. Make various escuses

The problem is, everyone saw what happened. Lebron fans are just as childish and insecure as Lebron aka Lebridesmaid. Keep on burying your heads in the sand. lol

[nathanjizzle]

tigers have killer instinct. Gorillas dont.

[d21221hk]

DNFR = Did not f**king read.

You can tell when something happens that Lebron fans are defensive about because they all run out and create a bunch of long nonsensical posts trying to......

a. Blame someone else

b. Tell you that it's not important

c. Make various escuses

The problem is, everyone saw what happened. Lebron fans are just as childish and insecure as Lebron aka Lebridesmaid. Keep on burying your heads in the sand. lol

Dude, you act like kobestans don't do the same thing. What was it? Team with 2 other all-stars = scrub to excuse the 6-26 or whatever? :violin:

[Dengness9]

http://europebasketball.net/basketball_wallpaper/lebron_james_playoffs_2009_buzzer_beater.jpg


Anyone who can read a human being's emotions understands that Lebron took that shot HOPING to make it, instead of KNOWING he was going to make it.

That man had an absolute shocked look on his face as soon as it hit the bottom of the net. FACT

[Alamo]

17ppg in the finals.

"Best player in the league" has to do better than that. If he wins the championship and shows that he's the leader of the Heat while doing it, I'll consider him one of the greatest players ever.

[Chaddai]

http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064224789122.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064144409844.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064218528528.gif http://nsa25.casimages.com/img/2011/02/28/110228064222688129.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/03/04/110304062927733416.gifhttp://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5168/unclutchjames.gif

http://h12.abload.de/img/untitled-3676ug4.gif http://nsa26.casimages.com/img/2011/03/07/110307120215365093.gif

/thread

You should post all of Kobe's missed shots when the game was on the line too. I bet you will find more gifs of him bricking than Lebron.

[305Baller]

http://heatbball.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/b1.gif

BOOYAH

[Nash-tastic]

To be honest, I didn't read the whole thing, just too much text lol but I did read some parts of it. LeBron is the kind of player I want leading my team when my team is down as in leading the comeback, he's good at these kind of things but what he isn't good at is taking the final shot IMO. So he'll be my choice when I'm down big but not when I need a final shot.

[Alamo]

http://heatbball.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/b1.gif

BOOYAH

Cyborg from teen titans lol

[DKLaker]

DIDN'T READ.......

But it should've said......

Chokeness, we are all witnesses OR The Choking One

[Jasper]

OP discussing Lebron clutchness = denial the guy doens't take the final shot for a reason.

* I did read the OP (congrad's on a great typing job) :rockon:

[Deltron3030]

Someone needs to post a Westbrook celebration shimmy DNR gif. That was the most retarded dance after a dunk this past all-star game. Actually, let's bring back the TOINE SHIMMY DNFR!!!!

[SpecialQue]

DIDN'T READ.......

But it should've said......

Chokeness, we are all witnesses OR The Choking One

If you read it, you'd see that that wouldn't be an accurate name for what he was trying to say.

He does say Lebron travelled, though.

[Dictator]

:oldlol:

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzyvz1xFQW1r09zs6o5_r1_250.gif

[Mr. Jabbar]

brb getting original did not read .gif

[pauk]

well said. couldn't agree more. :cheers:









i did read!

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Dude, you act like kobestans don't do the same thing. What was it? Team with 2 other all-stars = scrub to excuse the 6-26 or whatever? :violin:

4. Justification


Thank you for proving me right.

[zizozain]

lol @ this thread and replies

[SwooshReturns]

OP's dumb butt hurt ass can't quantify what "killer instinct" means? It comes from watching the actual games. It's measured in context, not in statistical data. Maybe he's just a box score watcher, but there are plenty of players who aren't statistically dominate who are "clutch", which means having the ability to show up in pressure situations. It's not that difficult to understand. LeBron doesn't have it within him, that's all you need to know.

[/thread]

[SwooshReturns]

Anyone who can read a human being's emotions understands that Lebron took that shot HOPING to make it, instead of KNOWING he was going to make it.

That man had an absolute shocked look on his face as soon as it hit the bottom of the net. FACT
Thank god someone who watches sports understands psychology and human mannerisms.

LeBron has ALWAYS been shook. That's why he NEEDED Wade. He even commented on it at times in Cleveland about not wanting to have to take those kind of shots.

LeBron looked in total shock when he made it. He didn't go into the shot KNOWING.

Look at Kobe's game winner v.s. Phoenix in 2006, or Jordan's game winner v.s. Utah in 1997. When they hit it ... they fist pumped, but the look on their face was "yeah, I knew that mother f'er was going in the hole."

Confidence, un-shakable ... never shook.

[OG LeeTSkeeT]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/417767_310540599005922_100001499532599_913721_2047 512977_n.jpg

[Alamo]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/417767_310540599005922_100001499532599_913721_2047 512977_n.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lialb12D1e1qdlkgg.gif

[ballinhun8]

Thought OP wasn't a Heat follower??


Anyways it definitely looks like the OP stole someone's opinion on LeBron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/417767_310540599005922_100001499532599_913721_2047 512977_n.jpg
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc489/niokulis/Laugh.gif

[Tenchi Ryu]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/417767_310540599005922_100001499532599_913721_2047 512977_n.jpg
Hell NAW
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[LakersReign]

When LeBron James is discussed these days, his alleged lack of "killer instinct" (a term that is, in my opinion, a euphemism for "we can't define X, so we will use a vague term as a cop out when discussing X") is often brought up.

Stop reading after seeing that steaming pile of hot garbage. You're way too stupid to realize that every single time you post one of these so called topics, cryin' like a little girl about Lebron. You prove that without a doubt, you truly know nothing about basketball. Yeah that's right, throw away ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING that doesn't make Lebron look good. He doesn't have a post game, it's "oh well, he's built like a truck, but he doesn't really need one." He clearly doesn't have the "killer instinct" and it's "oh well, it doesn't really exist." Then you turn right around and claim Lebron to be the best of the best. But yet continue to keep "grading him on a curve" by trying to discredit anything that makes him look bad. This is exactly why idiots like you get CONSISTENTLY get owned whenever you get into a basketball discussion with people who actually know something about the game.:hammerhead:

[Clocian-IGN]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif

this

[millwad]

RRR3 is a virgin. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[pauk]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/417767_310540599005922_100001499532599_913721_2047 512977_n.jpg

NO WORRIES.... :oldlol:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/basketball/nba/lebron-james-watch/2010/06/ferrari2.jpg
http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/lebron-107-480x360.jpg
http://superstarautos.com/wp-content/uploads2/2011/05/Labron-James-White-Camero-5.jpg
http://www.celebritycarz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/1-of-1-71-480x261.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/01/jameslebron11_450.jpg
http://hollywoodstatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/westcoastcustomsfront-550x367.jpg
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm73yoQEsv1qjusgco1_500.png
http://www.celebritycarz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/lebron-james-jeep-wrangler12031-480x319.jpg

[chips93]

pretty long read, and not much that i didnt already know

the bit about pujols was personally very interesting though, because thats almost exactly how, as a cavs fan, i felt about lebron leaving.

except that i have always thought that he was a douche, even while he was playing on the cavs, he was a douche, but i have always repected him as a player, and i always will. but ive never really respected him as a person, and i probably never will.

my take on the killer intinnct/clutch argument; lebron is a lot worse in the clutch, but i still think that he will win several titles, and it will probably be forgotten. that, or it will retrospectively be seen as some personal adversity that he overcame, even if he doesnt improve his clutch play, so long as he gets some rings.

[RRR3]

OP's dumb butt hurt ass can't quantify what "killer instinct" means? It comes from watching the actual games. It's measured in context, not in statistical data. Maybe he's just a box score watcher, but there are plenty of players who aren't statistically dominate who are "clutch", which means having the ability to show up in pressure situations. It's not that difficult to understand. LeBron doesn't have it within him, that's all you need to know.

[/thread]

Thank god someone who watches sports understands psychology and human mannerisms.

LeBron has ALWAYS been shook. That's why he NEEDED Wade. He even commented on it at times in Cleveland about not wanting to have to take those kind of shots.

LeBron looked in total shock when he made it. He didn't go into the shot KNOWING.

Look at Kobe's game winner v.s. Phoenix in 2006, or Jordan's game winner v.s. Utah in 1997. When they hit it ... they fist pumped, but the look on their face was "yeah, I knew that mother f'er was going in the hole."

Confidence, un-shakable ... never shook.
Ah, I see. When LeBron meets the "clutch" criteria, you just move the goalposts so that you can continue to bag on him. How convenient. LOL "b-b-b-b-but he didn't have a mean face when he made the shot! he got excited! So he's still not KA-LUTCH!":roll: :roll: :roll:

[LakersReign]

DNFR = Did not f**king read.

You can tell when something happens that Lebron fans are defensive about because they all run out and create a bunch of long nonsensical posts trying to......

a. Blame someone else

b. Tell you that it's not important

c. Make various escuses

The problem is, everyone saw what happened. Lebron fans are just as childish and insecure as Lebron aka Lebridesmaid. Keep on burying your heads in the sand. lol

:applause: :lol :roll: :oldlol: :bowdown: :applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

the bit about pujols was personally very interesting though, because thats almost exactly how, as a cavs fan, i felt about lebron leaving.

Except Pujols helped bring 2 titles to St.Louis as a very key player and LeBron promised Cleveland he will get them titles, but then left.

[RRR3]

Except Pujols helped bring 2 titles to St.Louis as a very key player and LeBron promised Cleveland he will get them titles, but then left.
Pujols didn't perform well in either ws we won. He also said things that he apparently didn't mean. At least lebron left for a chance To win pujols apparently left for $

[Legends66NBA7]

Pujols didn't perform well in either ws we won. He also said things that he apparently didn't mean. At least lebron left for a chance To win pujols apparently left for $

I'm aware of his performances in the World Series. Which is why I also said as a key player, because as far as I'm concerned right now, the Cardinals aren't making either World Series without him. It's not like were talking about a replacable player here... it's Pujols.

As far as things he didn't mean... which quotes ? I might not too famliar with them, although really I don't know what else he could have left to prove to justify these quotes, whatever they may be (though I would have liked to see him retire in St.Louis... and obviously the Cards fans wanted him to as well...)

Pujols probably did leave for money but he didn't join a bad team either. He'll most definitely make the Angels better on the offensive end. Which means he probably does still have a chance to win...

LeBron has much more to prove and win at the same time. He's got a lot of pressure and lofty expectations, much more than Pujols did. Though, I think ultimately reach them.

[Ashgar404]

right

[All Net]

Well thought out post, rare these days.

[Dictator]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/417767_310540599005922_100001499532599_913721_2047 512977_n.jpg

/thread

[Droid101]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/417767_310540599005922_100001499532599_913721_2047 512977_n.jpg
Post of the year. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[b1imtf]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/417767_310540599005922_100001499532599_913721_2047 512977_n.jpg
Oh snap :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[NumberSix]

When LeBron James is discussed these days, his alleged lack of "killer instinct" (a term that is, in my opinion, a euphemism for "we can't define X, so we will use a vague term as a cop out when discussing X") is often brought up.
From what I understand, "killer instinct" is the ability to make angry faces on the court.

Examples:

Killer Instinct
http://a.espncdn.com/i/magazine/new/041222_kobe.jpg


NOT killer instinct
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_R440eNEqeGY/TS4qc1HSRYI/AAAAAAAABXw/0Lq4otI1QGQ/s1600/lebron+smiling.jpg


Apparently, that's about it.

[keepinitreal]

Since the merger, who has hit a GW shot at the buzzer to win a game in the NBA finals?:confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

I'm aware of his performances in the World Series. Which is why I also said as a key player, because as far as I'm concerned right now, the Cardinals aren't making either World Series without him. It's not like were talking about a replacable player here... it's Pujols.

As far as things he didn't mean... which quotes ? I might not too famliar with them, although really I don't know what else he could have left to prove to justify these quotes, whatever they may be (though I would have liked to see him retire in St.Louis... and obviously the Cards fans wanted him to as well...)

Pujols probably did leave for money but he didn't join a bad team either. He'll most definitely make the Angels better on the offensive end. Which means he probably does still have a chance to win...

LeBron has much more to prove and win at the same time. He's got a lot of pressure and lofty expectations, much more than Pujols did. Though, I think ultimately reach them.
Pujols didn't have to prove anything on the field, he just was expected to adhere to the things he told the cardinal fanbase. obviously they are many factors that prevented him from doing this, and I somewhat understand, but I also don't like the way he handled everything. He disappointed us. Also, winning championships in STL dont' mean nearly as much as it would in Cleveland. We had 9 before he was even in the MLB.