Could anyone else in NBA history do what LeBron did in Cleveland?

[Doranku]

This dude had one of the most inept coaches in the league along with a bunch of average to garbage players and:

-Made the finals in '07
-Back to back 60 win seasons
-Never lost in the first round

Seeing the Lakers have this clown as their coach really makes me appreciate what LeBron was able to accomplish with that Cleveland team. His second best player for all of his years in Cleveland was Mo f*cking Williams. :roll:

The Cavs only have themselves to blame for him leaving as well. They could have gotten Amare (which would have been more than enough to put the Cavaliers in the finals from '10 and up), but they didn't want to gave up Hickson (:roll: ) who they ended up shipping out for f*cking Casspi.

I don't think even Jordan could have gotten that piss poor '07 cast to the finals like LeBron did. As much as I dislike the guy, if LeBron is able to win 3+ titles/FMVPs, he's going to become a legitimate GOAT candidate.

[imdaman99]

case in point. a couple of nights ago, bulls (rose) and cavs (lebron) both play without their superstars. and the bulls win by 50 pts in cleveland. oh wait... :oldlol:

[GOBB]

Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson just off the top of my head.

[StroShow4]

I don't think anyone else in the current NBA takes those Cavs further than LeBron did. Not going to comment on the past, I wasn't around to watch it. The crazy thing is that LeBron could've accomplished more if he had a more dominant mindset. He didn't even want to drag that team. They should've won the championship in 2010, but LeBron didn't care to dominate.

[Dave3]

case in point. a couple of nights ago, bulls (rose) and cavs (lebron) both play without their superstars. and the bulls win by 50 pts in cleveland. oh wait... :oldlol:
Cavaliers also added the 1st and 4th picks from this year, traded away many of their players, and lost a few to free agents since losing LeBron. Oh, and no more Mike Brown. Cavs are much better than they were last year. They have a winning record, this year. Losing by that much is more of a fluke than a display of their talent.

It's funny that now though Lakers fans are gaining a little more appreciation for what LeBron did with Mike Brown (at least the ones that didn't watch the Cavs as much). I'm not saying it based on this thread, just generally all of the Lakers' fans in the posts throughout their games threads complaining about the offense.

[mlh1981]

This dude had one of the most inept coaches in the league along with a bunch of average to garbage players and:

-Made the finals in '07
-Back to back 60 win seasons
-Never lost in the first round

Seeing the Lakers have this clown as their coach really makes me appreciate what LeBron was able to accomplish with that Cleveland team. His second best player for all of his years in Cleveland was Mo f*cking Williams. :roll:

The Cavs only have themselves to blame for him leaving as well. They could have gotten Amare (which would have been more than enough to put the Cavaliers in the finals from '10 and up), but they didn't want to gave up Hickson (:roll: ) who they ended up shipping out for f*cking Casspi.

I don't think even Jordan could have gotten that piss poor '07 cast to the finals like LeBron did. As much as I dislike the guy, if LeBron is able to win 3+ titles/FMVPs, he's going to become a legitimate GOAT candidate.

The bolded simply isn't true. i wish people would quit saying that. Why won't this myth die?

The team worked well together, but much like that supporting cast, LeBron needs to fall on the sword as well for his own playoff struggles during his Cavaliers playoff runs. What happened to the player that shone during the Pistons series? He simply wasn't there in the following years against the Magic and Celtics.

[Doranku]

I don't think anyone else in the current NBA takes those Cavs further than LeBron did. Not going to comment on the past, I wasn't around to watch it. The crazy thing is that LeBron could've accomplished more if he had a more dominant mindset. He didn't even want to drag that team. They should've won the championship in 2010, but LeBron didn't care to dominate.

Can you blame him though? He put up 39/8/8 in the ECF the previous year and that wasn't enough to even beat the Magic. He probably would've had to average 50 to beat the Celtics. :oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Jordan as well as several other players would've had a chance to get the '07 Cavs to the finals considering how weak the East was. And the Cavs did at least have a good defensive team around Lebron and the Cavs were a great rebounding team. But they also faced a Wizards team without Arenas or Butler and then a Net team whose best big man was Mikki Moore. Vince Carter being shut down also made it easier for Lebron to lead the Cavs past the Nets because New Jersey relied on Carter's scoring quite a bit.

They faced a good Piston team, but they pretty much self-destructed. Lebron has gotten much better since '07, but I was actually disappointed in his play that season. His shooting was extremely erratic and he seemed less dominant. The big games were far less frequent than any season since or '06 for that matter. I think his game 5 causes that season to get overrated because I remember others during the season noticing that he had regressed from '06 and speculating on whether it was because he was tired from playing for team USA.

His game 5 was truly incredible, though. I was stunned watching it.

With that being said, what he did during his next 3 years was more impressive to me. Particularly '09 when he made Cleveland one of the most dominant regular season teams in NBA history. Though that was a pretty good cast, just not a team you'd expect to have the record they did, or to be blowing out teams to the point where Lebron was regularly resting during the 4th. To add to that, his play during the first 2 rounds of the playoffs was unbelievable, he dominated effortlessly and his one man army performance during Orlando, keeping them in the series almost by himself was also impressive.

Cleveland also screwed up with the Jamison trade, that made them a weaker defensive team.

[Doranku]

The bolded simply isn't true. i wish people would quit saying that. Why won't this myth die?

The team worked well together, but much like that supporting cast, LeBron needs to fall on the sword as well for his own playoff struggles during his Cavaliers playoff runs. What happened to the player that shone during the Pistons series? He simply wasn't there in the following years against the Magic and Celtics.

Huh? 39/8/8 is BETTER than what he did against the Pistons. He dropped 49 in the first game on 66% shooting, yet the Cavaliers still lost because NO ONE else stepped up.

[Dave3]

The bolded simply isn't true. i wish people would quit saying that. Why won't this myth die?

The team worked well together, but much like that supporting cast, LeBron needs to fall on the sword as well for his own playoff struggles during his Cavaliers playoff runs. What happened to the player that shone during the Pistons series? He simply wasn't there in the following years against the Magic and Celtics.
No...he was there against the Magic, but not for all of the Celtics games yeah. He did play well for the first 3 or 4 games in the Celtics series, but after that he wasn't himself.

And another thing, RBA explained it many times, the Cavs didn't refuse to trade Hickson for Amar'e, the trade wasn't actually there for them anymore, the Suns had rejected it.

[Doranku]

No...he was there against the Magic, but not for all of the Celtics games yeah. He did play well for the first 3 or 4 games in the Celtics series, but after that he wasn't himself.

And another thing, RBA explained it many times, the Cavs didn't refuse to trade Hickson for Amar'e, the trade wasn't actually there for them anymore, the Suns had rejected it.

Regardless, Cavs management had ample time to surround LeBron with better talent, but the best they could do was a declining Jamison. Mike Brown is an idiot and didn't utilize Jamison right at all, but is that really the best piece they could acquire?

[mlh1981]

Ok, well, I went and looked back at that 2009 Magic series, so I stand corrected in thinking that his game suffered in that particular instance, but yeah, his play the following year against the Cetics is still a complete mystery to this day.

[StateOfMind12]

The back to back in 60 wins is probably the toughest task for any other NBA player in NBA history to do. I think there are many players that could lead that '07 Cavs team to the Finals and never lost in the 1st round with those Cavs team though.

That is why Lebron gets high praise for being an amazing regular season player but gets tons of crap about not being a great post-season performer.

[StroShow4]

Can you blame him though? He put up 39/8/8 in the ECF the previous year and that wasn't enough to even beat the Magic. He probably would've had to average 50 to beat the Celtics. :oldlol:

I don't know if I blame him, I'm just saying his mindset is different than all other basketball players who are even close to his caliber that I've ever seen before. Most guys as good as LeBron seem to get a huge rush out of being able to do a lot with a little... you know, it's the "like Mike" thing... the desire to be/belief that you're on such a high level that you can do it on your own (even though MJ had HOF help, you get what I mean). LeBron was just never like that. He insisted on involving his team to a fault. He wanted his team to be elite moreso than he wanted to be elite himself by carrying a bad team. Hence his joining with two other all-stars in Miami. I've always said LB would rather be on the greatest team ever than be the greatest player ever. Carrying that Cleveland squad just didn't get his juices flowing like it would have a guy like Kobe, Wade, etc.

[inclinerator]

not sure if sarcasm

[mlh1981]

If we are going to break down the inability of the Cavs to surround LeBron with the proper pieces, I will say that many of the moves seemed like the right thing to do at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

I can't remember many naysayers when they got Mo Williams and Larry Hughes. Williams was known as a guy who could put up points, and Hughes was part of an efficient scoring trio in Washington. Off the top of my head, I forget what year it was that Hughes was a free agent (edit: 2005), but they missed out on several other guys, so the criticism would have been there if they hadn't done SOMETHING that offseason. I remember the panic that year, the fear the Cavs weren't going to do anything to address their shooting guard needs.

and then there is the unfortunate Carlos Boozer saga. :(

[sixer6ad]

This dude had one of the most inept coaches in the league along with a bunch of average to garbage players and:

-Made the finals in '07
-Back to back 60 win seasons
-Never lost in the first round

Seeing the Lakers have this clown as their coach really makes me appreciate what LeBron was able to accomplish with that Cleveland team. His second best player for all of his years in Cleveland was Mo f*cking Williams. :roll:

The Cavs only have themselves to blame for him leaving as well. They could have gotten Amare (which would have been more than enough to put the Cavaliers in the finals from '10 and up), but they didn't want to gave up Hickson (:roll: ) who they ended up shipping out for f*cking Casspi.

I don't think even Jordan could have gotten that piss poor '07 cast to the finals like LeBron did. As much as I dislike the guy, if LeBron is able to win 3+ titles/FMVPs, he's going to become a legitimate GOAT candidate.

Just so everyone on ISH doesn't read a post and automatically believe it, let's get some facts straight:

FIRST AND FOREMOST...THE SUNS pulled the trade back - NOT THE F-ING Cavs. The trade idea that surfaced was Amare for Hickson, but the SUNS PULLED THE TRADE OFF THE TABLE. OKAY??? ONCE AND FOR ALL??? The rumor that the Cavs balked was absolutely just that.

SECONDLY - (and read carefully) - Mike Brown was the lead assistant in Indiana under Rick Carlisle and in San Antonio under Mike Popovich. Mike Freaking Popovich (World Champion) and Rick Carlisle (World Champion player and coach) pushed for Ferry to get Brown. Those NBA legends know how good Mike Brown is. In Cleveland, Brown made 1 appearance in the Finals, set many franchise records, and was NBA coach of the year. Thank God people like Larry Bird, and Rick Carlisle and Mike Popovich know the truth and make NBA-related decisions and that people who really don't know can sit around and type in a forum chat.

THIRDLY - people like Big Z and Anderson Varejo, and Boobie Gibson, and Joe Smith, and Carlos Boozer and Drew Gooden and Mo Williams and are freaking NBA players who have lasted in the league. Not ONE of them is a legitimate All-Star; however, each of these garbage players are capable of playing a role on an NBA Championship team. The problem was not all of these "garbage players", the problem was the lack of another scoring stud next to LBJ. None of those players had the design for that. PLENTY of NBA titles come to teams who play their roles (i.e. Dallas Mavericks), but that additional scoring stud never came. You are so wrong in believing it was the "garbage players" fault. It was the fault of someone who never made it to Cleveland.

FINALLY - Funny you mention Jordan, because you were wrong on him too. Jordan would have gotten more out of this group; it's what he did. Players like Bill Wennington and Craig Hodges and Steve Kerr and Tony Kukoc won titles by playing their roles. The same could have happened in Cleveland. The huge difference was Scottie Pippen sitting right next to Jordan every single night. THAT'S WHAT THE CAVS MISSED. It was not the coach, it was not LBJ, it was not the role players. Everything was there except PLAYER #2.

Other than missing out on 4 of your 4 points, this was one of the best threads I have read in awhile.

[Fatal9]

Get to the finals in '07? Yes, lot of players imo could have given how shitty the East was.

Back to back 60 win seasons with his cast? I really can't picture anyone else doing as good or better than him.

[jbryan1984]

Here we again. I'm so tired of this bullshit. If you want my opinion, you can do a search and read about 200 similar threads I have responded to the last year and a half.

[Dave3]

Here we again. I'm so tired of this bullshit. If you want my opinion, you can do a search and read about 200 similar threads I have responded to the last year and a half.
Look, I respect Cavs fans (the ones on this board at least, as they're the only ones I know) but you've said some ridiculous crap in the past. You're hardly in a position to be judging what's bull and what isn't.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I don't think even Jordan could have gotten that piss poor '07 cast to the finals like LeBron did. As much as I dislike the guy, if LeBron is able to win 3+ titles/FMVPs, he's going to become a legitimate GOAT candidate.

Considering that Jordan beat a Cavs team in '88 which was significantly better than anything Lebron faced in the EC, and did so with a worse team than Lebron had in Cleveland, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he would have reached the Finals.

[blablabla]

there's a reason lebron won more games with the cars than with the heat

[rule1223]

no doubt in my mind that kobe wouldve took atleast 2 games from the spurs

[LBJMVP]

Regardless, Cavs management had ample time to surround LeBron with better talent, but the best they could do was a declining Jamison. Mike Brown is an idiot and didn't utilize Jamison right at all, but is that really the best piece they could acquire?

we tried to sign some free agents, but they asked lebron if he was stayin and he refused to answer them so they refused to sign.

[HEAT111]

Regardless, Cavs management had ample time to surround LeBron with better talent, but the best they could do was a declining Jamison. Mike Brown is an idiot and didn't utilize Jamison right at all, but is that really the best piece they could acquire?

I agree with Doranku here. Think about it, Pat Riley was smart enough to bring Shaq to the Heat while noticing how Wade was playing during the time and look at the results. The Cavaliers brought this to themselves.

[HEAT111]

we tried to sign some free agents, but they asked lebron if he was stayin and he refused to answer them so they refused to sign.


That maybe factual but that's no alibi. When you take to notice that your player is playing like a GOAT, you got to take the chance and start making a championship contending team. Hence, the Orlando Magic; Dwight is going the through the samething and if the Magic atleast doesn't pull out a good move by next summer, they'll end up like Cleveland.

[Doranku]

Just so everyone on ISH doesn't read a post and automatically believe it, let's get some facts straight:

FIRST AND FOREMOST...THE SUNS pulled the trade back - NOT THE F-ING Cavs. The trade idea that surfaced was Amare for Hickson, but the SUNS PULLED THE TRADE OFF THE TABLE. OKAY??? ONCE AND FOR ALL??? The rumor that the Cavs balked was absolutely just that.

SECONDLY - (and read carefully) - Mike Brown was the lead assistant in Indiana under Rick Carlisle and in San Antonio under Mike Popovich. Mike Freaking Popovich (World Champion) and Rick Carlisle (World Champion player and coach) pushed for Ferry to get Brown. Those NBA legends know how good Mike Brown is. In Cleveland, Brown made 1 appearance in the Finals, set many franchise records, and was NBA coach of the year. Thank God people like Larry Bird, and Rick Carlisle and Mike Popovich know the truth and make NBA-related decisions and that people who really don't know can sit around and type in a forum chat.

THIRDLY - people like Big Z and Anderson Varejo, and Boobie Gibson, and Joe Smith, and Carlos Boozer and Drew Gooden and Mo Williams and are freaking NBA players who have lasted in the league. Not ONE of them is a legitimate All-Star; however, each of these garbage players are capable of playing a role on an NBA Championship team. The problem was not all of these "garbage players", the problem was the lack of another scoring stud next to LBJ. None of those players had the design for that. PLENTY of NBA titles come to teams who play their roles (i.e. Dallas Mavericks), but that additional scoring stud never came. You are so wrong in believing it was the "garbage players" fault. It was the fault of someone who never made it to Cleveland.

FINALLY - Funny you mention Jordan, because you were wrong on him too. Jordan would have gotten more out of this group; it's what he did. Players like Bill Wennington and Craig Hodges and Steve Kerr and Tony Kukoc won titles by playing their roles. The same could have happened in Cleveland. The huge difference was Scottie Pippen sitting right next to Jordan every single night. THAT'S WHAT THE CAVS MISSED. It was not the coach, it was not LBJ, it was not the role players. Everything was there except PLAYER #2.

Other than missing out on 4 of your 4 points, this was one of the best threads I have read in awhile.

While I admit to being wrong about the whole Stoudemire debacle, the premise that Cavs management failed to surround LeBron with a team capable of winning a title still stands.

I simply don't see how you can say Mike Brown is a good coach. He's good defensively, but he is simply CLUELESS on offense. Just look at the Lakers this year. You have a team with Kobe Bryant, Andrew Bynum, and Pau Gasol and their offense is absolutely putrid to watch. It was the same thing in Cleveland with their LeIso offense. You should be thanking LeBron for those franchise records and finals appearance, not Mike Brown.

Whose fault was it then when Cleveland lost to Orlando? LeBron put up 39/8/8, what more can you ask for? How about when LeBron put 45 on the Celtics in Game 7 '08? Cleveland lost because no one else stepped up. It's as simple as that.

Jordan would have got more out of that group? You think Jordan is winning an NBA title with Mo Williams, Big Z, and Varejao? Dude was 1-9 in playoff series before Pippen came. Jordan is the GOAT and best basketball talent I've ever seen, but there's no way he's going to win an NBA title with that team.

[Da_Realist]

I don't think even Jordan could have gotten that piss poor '07 cast to the finals like LeBron did. As much as I dislike the guy, if LeBron is able to win 3+ titles/FMVPs, he's going to become a legitimate GOAT candidate.


Jordan would have got more out of that group? You think Jordan is winning an NBA title with Mo Williams, Big Z, and Varejao? Dude was 1-9 in playoff series before Pippen came. Jordan is the GOAT and best basketball talent I've ever seen, but there's no way he's going to win an NBA title with that team.

The real point of this bait thread.

[brisbaneman]

Dirk did it in Dallas and unlike lebron he actually won something

[Meticode]

Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson just off the top of my head.
Disagree, neither made it to the Finals.

[Odinn]

Get to the finals in '07? Yes, lot of players imo could have given how shitty the East was.

Back to back 60 win seasons with his cast? I really can't picture anyone else doing as good or better than him.
Agree with this.

[Dave3]

Disagree, neither made it to the Finals.
I assume you mean with a bad cast, cuz Iverson did make it, but he had Mutumbo, McKey, a much better version of Eric Snow and Larry Brown.

[Meticode]

Dirk did it in Dallas and unlike lebron he actually won something
Rick Carlise > Mike Brown

[Meticode]

I assume you mean with a bad cast, cuz Iverson did make it, but he had Mutumbo, McKey, a much better version of Eric Snow and Larry Brown.
Yep, Larry Brown > Mike Brown definitely.

[Dave3]

Yep, Larry Brown > Mike Brown definitely.
Yeah. On the bright side though you guys recovered quick as hell. You're already on pace again to make the playoffs, after just one down year. We're not going to make the playoffs this decade with the way things are going.

[Figlo]

Jordan, Shaq, Hakeem & Kareem

[fubu05]

Hakeem actually won :confusedshrug:

[Doranku]

The real point of this bait thread.
:facepalm I was just responding to what he said. Just because I said one bad thing about Jordan (while acknowledging he's the GOAT no less) doesn't mean that this entire thread was created as some sort of insult to him.

[brisbaneman]

Rick Carlise > Mike Brown

Ah yes, the old blame it on the coach excuse. A favorite method of megalomaniac black athletes.

[NugzHeat3]

Get to the finals in '07? Yes, lot of players imo could have given how shitty the East was.

Back to back 60 win seasons with his cast? I really can't picture anyone else doing as good or better than him.
I'd go with this.

[PistonsFan#21]

Dirk did it in Dallas and unlike lebron he actually won something

are you gonna compare Dirk's supporting cast and coaching staff to Lebron's?

:facepalm

[brisbaneman]

are you gonna compare Dirk's supporting cast and coaching staff to Lebron's?

:facepalm

Of course I am. Dirk's cast was piss poor compared to every team they beat and not only that, he took a massive shit on Lebron in the Finals with JJ Barea and Jason Terry as his 2/3 options. But of course thats better than Dwyane wade and chris bosh, right?

[Indian guy]

OK, who hacked Doranku's account?

[PistonsFan#21]

Of course I am. Dirk's cast was piss poor compared to every team they beat and not only that, he took a massive shit on Lebron in the Finals with JJ Barea and Jason Terry as his 2/3 options. But of course thats better than Dwyane wade and chris bosh, right?

I am talking about Dirks supporting cast last year compared to Lebron's supporting cast in Cleveland in 2007...

Obviously this thread isnt about Lebron's cast in Miami

[Indian guy]

Considering that Jordan beat a Cavs team in '88 which was significantly better than anything Lebron faced in the EC

This has to be a joke. The '88 Cavaliers won 42 games. A 42-win team is better than a 59-win team that ranked 1st on defense and 8th on offense?

[jbryan1984]

Look, I respect Cavs fans (the ones on this board at least, as they're the only ones I know) but you've said some ridiculous crap in the past. You're hardly in a position to be judging what's bull and what isn't.


What have I said that is ridiculous? The only thing I ever do here that could possibly get under peoples skin is defend the Cavs. My point is people make moronic threads like this and 2-3 years ago, they were praising the Cavs front office for making trades to get Mo, Shaq, Jamison and others.

[Doranku]

What have I said that is ridiculous? The only thing I ever do here that could possibly get under peoples skin is defend the Cavs. My point is people make moronic threads like this and 2-3 years ago, they were praising the Cavs front office for making trades to get Mo, Shaq, Jamison and others.

Right, just like how you're hating on LeBron James now and underplaying what he did for your shitty franchise when 2-3 years ago you were slobbering all over his c0ck.

[jbryan1984]

Right, just like how you're hating on LeBron James now and underplaying what he did for your shitty franchise when 2-3 years ago you were slobbering all over his c0ck.


lol, I never say LBJ is horrible or anything, I always say how great a player he is. The thing you guys hate is when I say he is doing nothing different now than he did for us then. I mean nothing different at all so don't get excited.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Why do people insist on underrating LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland? He was not playing with a bunch of scrubs. His teams from 2007-2010 were very solid teams. Would have been 4th or 5th seed without him. LeBron QUIT on them.

[Doranku]

Why do people insist on underrating LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland? He was not playing with a bunch of scrubs. His teams from 2007-2010 were very solid teams. Would have been 4th or 5th seed without him. LeBron QUIT on them.

This is just nonsense. Mo Williams, Big Z, and Varejao is a 4th or 5th seed?

They'd probably be a lottery team without LeBron.

[DMAVS41]

Why do people insist on underrating LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland? He was not playing with a bunch of scrubs. His teams from 2007-2010 were very solid teams. Would have been 4th or 5th seed without him. LeBron QUIT on them.

:wtf:

[jbryan1984]

Why do people insist on underrating LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland? He was not playing with a bunch of scrubs. His teams from 2007-2010 were very solid teams. Would have been 4th or 5th seed without him. LeBron QUIT on them.



Thank you. And I'm not even saying LeBron quit. I absolutely will always feel something wasn't right about that 2010 Boston series but I refuse to believe a man did not want to win a championship, for his home team no less. But, we did have solid teams, especially in 2009 and 2010. If LeBron was God and everyone else was trash, he would had carried all of the Cavs teams to the best record every single year. I will be the first to admit that other than Larry Hughes (who was supposed to be the next big scoring shooting guard) our 07 was pretty much scrubs. But after that, we were adding proven talent that made a difference and people on this board thought we were a lock to win it. Thank God we can all search to prove that.

[brisbaneman]

I am talking about Dirks supporting cast last year compared to Lebron's supporting cast in Cleveland in 2007...

Obviously this thread isnt about Lebron's cast in Miami

Honestly before the playoffs did ANYONE except hardcore Mavs fans give the Mavs a chance? Just look again at that Mavs roster and tell me you actually thought they were 'stacked' or a force to be reckoned with prior to the postseason.

[ralph_i_el]

kevin garnett
allen iverson
hakeem

and like 10 other dudes probably could

[DMAVS41]

are you gonna compare Dirk's supporting cast and coaching staff to Lebron's?

:facepalm

I don't see how the 11 Mavs are all that much better than the 09 or 10 Cavs....

And when you factor in the level of competition....its probably dead even.

Portland, Lakers, Thunder, and Heat....the Lebron led Cavs never had to go through anything like that. Not even close.

Its not that Lebron had enough help...he didn't. Its just that what the Mavs did last year was far more remarkable than what people are giving them credit for.

[PistonsFan#21]

Honestly before the playoffs did ANYONE except hardcore Mavs fans give the Mavs a chance? Just look again at that Mavs roster and tell me you actually thought they were 'stacked' or a force to be reckoned with prior to the postseason.

I didnt excpect them to go all the way to the Finals and win agaisnt the Heat but if you told me to compare the 2 casts:

Give me Jason Kidd, Jet Terry, Stevenson, Marion, Chandler, Barrea, Stojakovic, Haywood

over

Ilgauskas, Gibson, Snow, Varejao, Hughes, Gooden and Damon Jones

There's no way Nowitzki would have led that Cavs team to the Finals

[Meticode]

Yeah. On the bright side though you guys recovered quick as hell. You're already on pace again to make the playoffs, after just one down year. We're not going to make the playoffs this decade with the way things are going.
I hope not. I'd like us to get one good player in this draft then be good with that.

[Meticode]

kevin garnett
allen iverson
hakeem

and like 10 other dudes probably could
Nope, incorrect.

[brisbaneman]

I didnt excpect them to go all the way to the Finals and win agaisnt the Heat but if you told me to compare the 2 casts:

Give me Jason Kidd, Jet Terry, Stevenson, Marion, Chandler, Barrea, Stojakovic, Haywood

over

Ilgauskas, Gibson, Snow, Varejao, Hughes, Gooden and Damon Jones

There's no way Nowitzki would have led that Cavs team to the Finals

Dirk easily could have done it in the putrid East that season. The cavs beat one good team, the Pistons and they weren't even that good by that point.

Now, Dirk-Big Z-Varejao-West-Mo Williams-Jamison would have been the sickest team though. Incredible defense + Dirk would make all those guys click on offense. That team could win 2-3 rings easy cumming out of the East.

[PistonsFan#21]

Dirk easily could have done it in the putrid East that season. The cavs beat one good team, the Pistons and they weren't even that good by that point.

Now, Dirk-Big Z-Varejao-West-Mo Williams-Jamison would have been the sickest team though. Incredible defense + Dirk would make all those guys click on offense. That team could win 2-3 rings easy cumming out of the East.

A starting lineup of: Dirk, Jamison, Mo Williams, West, Jamario Moon is far from being "incredible" defensively. Tha frontcourt would get killed

[SilkkTheShocker]

Why do people insist on underrating LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland? He was not playing with a bunch of scrubs. His teams from 2007-2010 were very solid teams. Would have been 4th or 5th seed without him. LeBron QUIT on them.

This a good example of a terrible post ^^^^^^^^^

[brisbaneman]

A starting lineup of: Dirk, Jamison, Mo Williams, West, Jamario Moon is far from being "incredible" defensively. Tha frontcourt would get killed

I'm sorry but that is an incredible defensive squad. Take out Jamison and insert Varejao. That would be even better than dirkules-chandler-marion-deshawn-old man kidd plus we'd have mike brown coaching, who is a defensive genius.

[Miller for 3]

among current players: Kobe, Wade, Duncan, and Dirk could have duplicated it. The 07 67 win Mavs without Dirk were worse than the 07 Cavs without Lebron

[lilgodfather1]

If Steve Kerr/Sarvar weren't so stupid/cheap then the Cavs would be sitting pretty with a few championships right now, but they didn't want to pull the trigger on trading Amare. The hold up by all accounts was not from the Cavs side, but from Sarvar. The funny thing is in FA they let him go for nothing instead of trading for JJ Hickson. I don't think it is crazy to think that the Cavs trade for Amare, trade AV, etc for Bosh, and then roll out a better team than Miami could ever dream of. Wade goes to Chicago.

[Lebron23]

This dude had one of the most inept coaches in the league along with a bunch of average to garbage players and:

-Made the finals in '07
-Back to back 60 win seasons
-Never lost in the first round

Seeing the Lakers have this clown as their coach really makes me appreciate what LeBron was able to accomplish with that Cleveland team. His second best player for all of his years in Cleveland was Mo f*cking Williams. :roll:

The Cavs only have themselves to blame for him leaving as well. They could have gotten Amare (which would have been more than enough to put the Cavaliers in the finals from '10 and up), but they didn't want to gave up Hickson (:roll: ) who they ended up shipping out for f*cking Casspi.

I don't think even Jordan could have gotten that piss poor '07 cast to the finals like LeBron did. As much as I dislike the guy, if LeBron is able to win 3+ titles/FMVPs, he's going to become a legitimate GOAT candidate.


Thank you for opening you mind and your eyes. You deserves some green bars.

No NBA Legend would win an NBA title with that Cavaliers squad. End Thread.

[pauk]

NO...

only Michael Jordan

[Eric Cartman]

Prime Steve Nash & Jason Kidd made there teammates better. Lebron lead Cleveland to the finals once & alot of regular season wins. They fit the bill. Obviously Kobe could've too.

[sodap]

lebron certainly has goatesque talents. but he took them to south beach, negating every chance of being the goat.

No, I dont think anyobody could have done what lebron did in cleveland, he's just that good. I dont like watching him play, though, and since the decision I also hate the guy.

[madmax]

Only peak Oscar Robertson or Kareem could do what Lebron was achieving with those underwhelming Cavs teams...he had a clueless moron coach, no reliable second option and a bunch of mediocre to garbage roleplayers. So yeah, he pretty much wasted 7 years of his career on that team...

[brisbaneman]

Easily, there is no doubt in my mind that if lebron were replaced by Dirk that team easily could/would win a championship. That team would be insane on defense and would be a killer crunch time team on offense with dirk instead of lebron.

[brisbaneman]

Only peak Oscar Robertson or Kareem could do what Lebron was achieving with those underwhelming Cavs teams...he had a clueless moron coach, no reliable second option and a bunch of mediocre to garbage roleplayers. So yeah, he pretty much wasted 7 years of his career on that team...

Mo williams and delonte west sure haven't needed him to play great ball this season.

also the cavs are humming along at 8-11 currently with essentially the same cast lebron had, but run by a rookie point guard. once again, stop overrating the hell out of lebron.

[32Dayz]

No one in the current NBA.

Prime Jordan, Prime Shaq, Prime Kareem...

Only 3 I can think of who could do what he did or surpass it.

HM : Prime Hakeem / Prime Bird or Prime Magic

[madmax]

Mo williams and delonte west sure haven't needed him to play great ball this season.

also the cavs are humming along at 8-11 currently with essentially the same cast lebron had, but run by a rookie point guard. once again, stop overrating the hell out of lebron.

Mo Williams?
The same guy who couldn't make an open shot against Magic in 09' playoffs and was a proven choker in postseason? Don't make me laugh...
Delonte West?
Bipolar headcase and troublemaker, not to mention heavily undersized against any backcourt player the opponents threw at him...

Yup, sounds like a championship caliber support to me...NOT

[DukeDelonte13]

This dude had one of the most inept coaches in the league along with a bunch of average to garbage players and:

-Made the finals in '07
-Back to back 60 win seasons
-Never lost in the first round

Seeing the Lakers have this clown as their coach really makes me appreciate what LeBron was able to accomplish with that Cleveland team. His second best player for all of his years in Cleveland was Mo f*cking Williams. :roll:

The Cavs only have themselves to blame for him leaving as well. They could have gotten Amare (which would have been more than enough to put the Cavaliers in the finals from '10 and up), but they didn't want to gave up Hickson (:roll: ) who they ended up shipping out for f*cking Casspi.

I don't think even Jordan could have gotten that piss poor '07 cast to the finals like LeBron did. As much as I dislike the guy, if LeBron is able to win 3+ titles/FMVPs, he's going to become a legitimate GOAT candidate.


Is this a joke? Do people really believe this? Hickson was on the table. The SUNS balked, not the cavs. The SUNS did not want to give up Amare for Hickson. :facepalm

[FatComputerNerd]

Mo Williams?
The same guy who couldn't make an open shot against Magic in 09' playoffs and was a proven choker in postseason? Don't make me laugh...
Delonte West?
Bipolar headcase and troublemaker, not to mention heavily undersized against any backcourt player the opponents threw at him...

Yup, sounds like a championship caliber support to me...NOT

1- Mo is having a great season

2- Delonte was a backup PG primarily, and far from undersized. He was big for a pointguard, with excellent defensive abilities. That is why we frequently had him guarding (and quite effectively mind you) opposing teams shooting guards. I remember him shutting down Ray Allen and Joe Johnson on more than one occasion. He was probably the best wing defender we had on those teams.

[Scholar]

Definitely Jordan could've done similar (if not better) things than LeBron for the same Cavs teams.
Allen Iverson, too, proved that he could lead a scrubby team to the NBA Finals all by himself.
Hmm... Who else? Maybe Shaquille O'Neal. Too dominant of a player to not take into consideration.

[2010splash]

The better question is could any other "best player in the league" have lost in the Finals while having by far the best supporting cast in the league. Highly doubt it.

Jordan never choked like LeBron in the Finals, but also never needed a cast 1/2 as talented as prime Wade/Bosh. How funny is that. He won way more, played way better, and had a worse supporting cast.

[madmax]

The better question is could any other "best player in the league" have lost in the Finals while having by far the best supporting cast in the league. Highly doubt it.

Jordan never choked like LeBron in the Finals, but also never needed a cast 1/2 as talented as prime Wade/Bosh. How funny is that. He won way more, played way better, and had a worse supporting cast.

prove it...
relative to the competition, Bulls were head and shoulders above anyone in the 90's...and how is Miami so much better, when they have 3 great players and pretty much garbage after them?

[Dave3]

What have I said that is ridiculous? The only thing I ever do here that could possibly get under peoples skin is defend the Cavs. My point is people make moronic threads like this and 2-3 years ago, they were praising the Cavs front office for making trades to get Mo, Shaq, Jamison and others.
You predicting the Cavs to be a top seed in the East in the 2011 season despite losing LeBron. That doesn't seem unrealistic to you?