Im at work till 5am. Prepare for rambling.

[Kblaze8855]

Just a place for me to throw the basketball related things that pop into my head as I sit and wait for some guys to finish some electrical work im required to be in the building for....


Greatest "Other guys" of all time?

Guys from great teams who never come up when the team is described...but they played major roles.

Guys like:

Byron Scott - I believe he was the Lakers leading scorer a couple times in the 80s. Would smash on anyone. Could shoot. Play D. Nobody cares because of Magic, Worthy, and Kareem. Cooper is more remembered as well. Maybe Rambis too.

Jeff Hornacek - Stockton/Malone jazz should be Stockton/Malone/Hornacek Jazz to me. Not that he was as good as them but it was a clear divide from Jeff to their next best player. He was an all star level guy on the Suns and 76ers and just let go of that to play a role. But he was still bigtime in a lot of series and games. No hops Manu.

Detlef Schregevbregvmph. In 95 or 96 I believe he, Kemp, and GP were all on the all nba third team. At least he and Kemp were. But nobody remembers him on those teams as major guy. He was putting up like 20 a game for a minute or two. Should be the GP/Kemp/Detlef Sonics not just Kemp and Payton. Detlef was MAJOR for that team.


Solid players I feel need a little more attention. First of many things I will post then never follow up on in the coming hours.....

[1987_Lakers]

Scott was good, but he had an act of disappearing in big games, especially if he was in the Garden, but he did lead the Lakers in scoring in their '88 title season. Got one question for you....Byron Scott or Danny Ainge?

[L.Kizzle]

Shawn Marion: Those Suns will always be Nash and Amare.

Charles Oakley: John Starks might be more known now, but he was the Knicks (Oak) 2nd most important player, I think.

[pauk]

cool... what do u work with kblaze?

[1987_Lakers]

80's Celtics: Danny Ainge (Was the teams best athlete & quickest player)

Early 90's Blazers: Terry Porter (No holes in his game, he did everything well)

'09 Lakers: Trevor Ariza

80's Sixers: Andrew Toney

[G-train]

80's Celtics: Danny Ainge (Was the teams best athlete & quickest player)

Early 90's Blazers: Terry Porter (No holes in his game, he did everything well)

'09 Lakers: Trevor Ariza

80's Sixers: Andrew Toney

Trevor Ariza couldnt carry the other 3's jockstrap.

[L.Kizzle]

80's Celtics: Danny Ainge (Was the teams best athlete & quickest player)

Early 90's Blazers: Terry Porter (No holes in his game, he did everything well)

'09 Lakers: Trevor Ariza

80's Sixers: Andrew Toney
I beg your pardon?

[Kblaze8855]

Danny Ainge...

Danny..

Hard to say this since I hated him back in the day but...

Danny Ainge went hard. He was the kind guy you could call a "punk"(in an old man kinda way). You cant call him a bitch though. Small but important difference. Danny played hard...both ends. Outmatched or not. He never stopped giving his all. He would get dirty. Get on the floor. Elbow. Talk shit. Pick fights.

But he was a winner. You can win with a gang of Danny ainge types on your team. Id never have said so at the time but in retrospect...I ****s with Danny ainge.

[1987_Lakers]

Trevor Ariza couldnt carry the other 3's jockstrap.

He might be comparable to Ainge, even though Ainge is a much better ball-handler, passer, & shooter, Ariza is the better defender & finisher and I just love the way he preformed in the '09 playoffs. (I'll take Ainge though)

[eliteballer]

70's lakers - Gail Goodrich

80's Nuggets: Lafyette Lever

90's Hawks: Mookie Blaylock

90's Lakers: Cedric Ceballos

[1987_Lakers]

Danny Ainge...

Danny..

Hard to say this since I hated him back in the day but...

Danny Ainge went hard. He was the kind guy you could call a "punk"(in an old man kinda way). You cant call him a bitch though. Small but important difference. Danny played hard...both ends. Outmatched or not. He never stopped giving his all. He would get dirty. Get on the floor. Elbow. Talk shit. Pick fights.

But he was a winner. You can win with a gang of Danny ainge types on your team. Id never have said so at the time but in retrospect...I ****s with Danny ainge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfKftsW8DhE

[L.Kizzle]

70's lakers - Gail Goodrich

80's Nuggets: Lafyette Lever

90's Hawks: Mookie Blaylock

90's Lakers: Cedric Ceballos
Ced was the star on those Laker teams. This was pre-Shaq.

[Kblaze8855]

cool... what do u work with kblaze?

I do virtually nothing. Well I have to do virtually nothing. I do more than required. all im required to do is be in the building, make sure people are generally being safe, and now and then train some kid who really just uses the job here to get a license on the various machinery I can train them to use. My primary purpose is...if something or someone gets ****ed up im accountable and am required for insurance to cover it. So in that role I am mostly useless...but required.

I spend most of the day on my computer or wandering around arguing about sports with people who have work to do. Right now im eating a reeses cup and streaming a movie. The most work I will be doing tonight is walking to a different computer when the guy fixing our systems comes over here. It will knock out the internet over here. So ill go to some other office.

That is the extent of my work tonight.

[AlphaWolf24]

I do virtually nothing. Well I have to do virtually nothing. I do more than required. all im required to do is be in the building, make sure people are generally being safe, and now and then train some kid who really just uses the job here to get a license on the various machinery I can train them to use. My primary purpose is...if something or someone gets ****ed up im accountable and am required for insurance to cover it. So in that role I am mostly useless...but required.

I spend most of the day on my computer or wandering around arguing about sports with people who have work to do. Right now im eating a reeses cup and streaming a movie. The most work I will be doing tonight is walking to a different computer when the guy fixing our systems comes over here. It will knock out the internet over here. So ill go to some other office.

That is the extent of my work tonight.



sounds......






















pretty F'ing pathetic.....





















sorry man.:(

[Kblaze8855]

Despite being generally less blown away by him than it seems most are....I feel like Kobe is getting underrated lately. Not all time. But right now. For the player he currently is. People are ready to write him off as elite. And to me the thing you most have to respect about Kobe is his "**** you"ness.

Kobe is on a short list of athletes I suspect just hates people. People in his way at least. Kobe...James harrison...KG perhaps...Tiger woods...Jordan...Bird...Steve Smith. I dont think they enjoy other people. Teammates I think they hate for hindering their ability to win....opponents for trying to win instead of them.

I respect tht hatred in a sports way. And Kobe hears people. He knows hes being written off. I wouldnt be one bit surprised if he put up 30 a game next season and won another ring and brought up peoples comments this off season in the finals post game celebration.

Hes slowly going from someone I didnt really see the big deal about to one of those people I support in old age after years of not caring or flat out wanting them to lose(Reggie is another example). I wont be annoyed or surprised if Kobe wins next year and has people saying hes the best again.

[Kblaze8855]

sounds......






pretty F'ing pathetic.....

sorry man.

My grandfather worked 2 or 3 jobs depending on the season while also tending to a farm to take care of his family. My mom worked 30 years taking care of other peoples kids and raising 4 of her own and the various hangers on we had around for like 150-200 bucks a week. And I easily take care of a family and some others by...sitting here.

Far as a 9-5 im pretty happy with it. I have some other things going on but you cant turn your back on reliable income when you have kids needing school clothes and little cousins wanting video games for christmas.

I say it like Ross.....ill shovel shit. I'll CO...so they can bow their heads and pray over the meatloaf.

[Kblaze8855]

Trying to think of who the NBA has left who needs a ring...

The old guys who have done so much for so long and id like to see get a Kidd style ring while still being key players like he was...

All I can come up with? Steve Nash.

AI too but hes gone. But Nash is it right now. And im not sure how it happens.

I wouldnt wanna see him on the Spurs or Lakers. Like seeing Reggie on the Bulls or Knicks...

Mavs? Nah. Been there done that. Plus they have their old guy point.

Knicks? Magic?

Ok but....how do they get him?

Im thinking Nash goes out never playing a finals game. Which would give me a bit of personal "See...what I say? The **** did I say?" looking back on 05 and 06. But hes not a bad guy. I wouldnt be upset see him get it done.,

[Legends66NBA7]

My grandfather worked 2 or 3 jobs depending on the season while also tending to a farm to take care of his family. My mom worked 30 years taking care of other peoples kids and raising 4 of her own and the various hangers on we had around for like 150-200 bucks a week. And I easily take care of a family and some others by...sitting here.

Far as a 9-5 im pretty happy with it. I have some other things going on but you cant turn your back on reliable income when you have kids needing school clothes and little cousins wanting video games for christmas.

I say it like Ross.....ill shovel shit. I'll CO...so they we bow their heads and pray over the meatloaf.

A job is a job at the end of the day. Got to respect the hustle.

[Legends66NBA7]

Trying to think of who the NBA has left who needs a ring...

The old guys who have done so much for so long and id like to see get a Kidd style ring while still being key players like he was...

All I can come up with? Steve Nash.

AI too but hes gone. But Nash is it right now. And im not sure how it happens.

I wouldnt wanna see him on the Spurs or Lakers. Like seeing Reggie on the Bulls or Knicks...

Mavs? Nah. Been there done that. Plus they have their old guy point.

Knicks? Magic?

Ok but....how do they get him?

Im thinking Nash goes out never playing a finals game. Which would give me a bit of personal "See...what I say? The **** did I say?" looking back on 05 and 06. But hes not a bad guy. I wouldnt be upset see him get it done.,

Grant Hill ?
Vince Carter ?
Elton Brand ?
Baron Davis ?

[AlphaWolf24]

My grandfather worked 2 or 3 jobs depending on the season while also tending to a farm to take care of his family. My mom worked 30 years taking care of other peoples kids and raising 4 of her own and the various hangers on we had around for like 150-200 bucks a week. And I easily take care of a family and some others by...sitting here.

Far as a 9-5 im pretty happy with it. I have some other things going on but you cant turn your back on reliable income when you have kids needing school clothes and little cousins wanting video games for christmas.

I say it like Ross.....ill shovel shit. I'll CO...so they we bow their heads and pray over the meatloaf.


Hell yeah.....I respect that......I was just messin with you....



maybe in another life You were a Rock Star/undercover Mercenary...

Traveling around Performing for millions, banging Top shelf Ho's while taking out Sheisty criminals on the D low to never blow your cover...

Good Luck 2U:cheers:

[Gundress]

Nets: Richard Jefferson or Kerry Kittles?? (With Kenyon Martin and Jason Kidd)

Spurs: Avery Johnson or Sean Elliott?? (With Tim Duncan and David Robinson)

Pacers: Rik Smits (with Reggie Miller and Jalen Rose)

[DuMa]

Nash. as much as it pains me to say, he should go to miami.

[Kblaze8855]

Maaaaaaaaaan **** Vince carter. If Vince had the heart of Iverson, Kobe, or even Nash he would have owned the league. I dont care what that balding now and then go hard ass dude gets at the end of his career.

Baron only played as well as he should have like...4 times. The 01 playoffs, the first month of 03/04, the 07 playoffs and most of 2008. I have the greatest respect for his talent but I dont know if his head was in it.

Brand I wont waste a real paragraph on. I'll just say this:

He was on the Bulls. I saw all I needed to see of him then.


Grant? Tossup. On one hand its nice when the good guys get to win. But really...thats not grant hill anymore. Grant Hill...the guy I wanted to see win back in the day...hes gone. If Nash wins...thats still Nash. Grant winning would be like Payton on the Heat winning. He made plays...good player...but thats not Gary Payton proving the doubters wrong. Not even on Kidds level. Kidd was going hard in the playoffs. Key player clearly.

Hill I suspect would be a teams 7th man or something and....I wouldnt be too hyped to see the great Grant Hill win like that.

[Kblaze8855]

Hell yeah.....I respect that......I was just messin with you....



maybe in another life You were a Rock Star/undercover Mercenary...

Traveling around Performing for millions, banging Top shelf Ho's while taking out Sheisty criminals on the D low to never blow your cover...

Good Luck 2U

Im convinced ive done everything im gonna do of any real excitement. But I had my run. Being 19 is for 19 year olds.

I wouldnt mind one more "**** it...." trip to miami though.

Oh and ive had 3 people threaten my life in the last 3 years. 2 I believe were serious.

So thats something.

[dbugz]

Danny Ainge...

Danny..

Hard to say this since I hated him back in the day but...

Danny Ainge went hard. He was the kind guy you could call a "punk"(in an old man kinda way). You cant call him a bitch though. Small but important difference. Danny played hard...both ends. Outmatched or not. He never stopped giving his all. He would get dirty. Get on the floor. Elbow. Talk shit. Pick fights.

But he was a winner. You can win with a gang of Danny ainge types on your team. Id never have said so at the time but in retrospect...I ****s with Danny ainge.


Here's cool pic of Ainge and Rivers back then :applause:

http://atlanta.sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/bos_g_rivers_576.jpeg

[G-train]

Marcus Camby is a pretty good player that I would like to see win a ring.

[Fatal9]

I seriously think Hornacek had playoff runs with that Jazz team where he didn't miss a single three pointer when he got his feet set.

As for some other guys...not necessarily "all-time great" teams but memorable ones atleast...Terry Porter maybe. Robert Reid on the two Rocket teams that made it to the finals in the 80s. Sarunas on the run TMC teams. McAdoo on the '82 Laker team...put up 17/7 in only 27 minutes in the playoffs, he put that team absolutely over the top with talent with what he did off the bench...and guy (in his 30s after tons of injuries) was a 15 ppg scorer in only 20 minutes off the bench on those teams for the next couple of seasons.

[eliteballer]

Kblaze you could be bill simmons. Start a blog or something. Dont waste your mind sitting there.

[dbugz]

How about Spurs' Sean Elliot?

[magnax1]

Im convinced ive done everything im gonna do of any real excitement. But I had my run. Being 19 is for 19 year olds.

I wouldnt mind one more "**** it...." trip to miami though.

Oh and ive had 3 people threaten my life in the last 3 years. 2 I believe were serious.

So thats something.
Why are you getting that many threats? lol
I think Nash definitely deserves a championship. Maybe he'll get traded to Portland or something. I think he could put a team like that over the top.

[AlphaWolf24]

Im convinced ive done everything im gonna do of any real excitement. But I had my run. Being 19 is for 19 year olds.

I wouldnt mind one more "**** it...." trip to miami though.

Oh and ive had 3 people threaten my life in the last 3 years. 2 I believe were serious.

So thats something.


happened at work???...



Hope you aint in Cali.....in a safety meeting:eek:

[Kblaze8855]

Im going to take a moment to flesh it out in my head and then post an absurd hypothetical question for ISH to consider(or have me committed for thinking up).

[Legends66NBA7]

Im going to take a moment to flesh it out in my head and then post an absurd hypothetical question for ISH to consider(or have me committed for thinking up).

Sounds fun..

[Kblaze8855]

Ok....

Lets say you get home tomorrow to find a Maybach Exelero outside:

http://www.shitwecomeupwit.com/wp-content/gallery/maybach/maybach_exelero_front.jpg

An 8 million dollar car by the way. After taking a moment to look at it you go in to find Paul Allen, Bill Walton, and mayor of New York Mike Bloomberg sitting in your living room as if waiting for you to get home. They tell you not to speak...but to listen. They then give you the following story(Narrated of course by Walton...in whos voice you should read this):

"Son...this will be hard to believe...but you should take what im going to tell you very serious. John D. Rockefeller. Do you know who that was? Im sure you have heard the name. But let me give you a bit more information....

He was much more than the guy Jay-Z named his record label after. He was...adjusting for inflation...the richest non monarch in world history. Through his stakes in oil and other interests he became the worlds first billionaire and personally held just under two percent of all of the money in the United States. In modern terms he had a personal fortune of between 660 billion and 1 trillion dollars. This was a man of exceptional means. And a man of exceptional fears. At age 70 fearing his death he comissioned the creation of the first first human clone known to exist....intending to...(with help from Einstien...) transfer his mind into the young clone to live another full llifetime. But he came to see that the science to pull it off was decades away and was left with a clone he couldnt make use of. Not wanting the child destroyed(as was the standard prodecure when a clone was useless...it was and still is highly illegal)....he instead fabricated a life for him and doctored the records allowing him to be put him up for adoption. He was taken in by a family who was told all this and told never to reveal it to him...but to raise him right and push him to do his best at whatever interested him. And he grew up to dominate college basketball as the original did the business world. Who was this child clone of the great Rockefeller?


http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/320/sstopceo6.jpg



The late great John Wooden:


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/seth_davis/08/24/john.wooden/john-wooden.jpg


Which explains why Bill Walton is telling the story.

He goes on to tell you that while they did not have the ability in JDs day to transfer his knowledge they did manage to save it though means too complicated to explain. Point is....they have it now. And after Woodens death his mental essence was saved as well. The knowledge of the greatest businessman of all time and the greatest coach of all time are saved....and now that science has come far enough the time has come to transfer it all into the mind of a child.

A baby...

A baby clone...of John Wooden/Rockefeller(them being the same person genetically).

One of their assistants wheels in this baby. The baby has all the knowledge of two of the greatest minds in two professions. Its locked away dormant...but it has the knowledge. And the same potential.

You....after months of research into who would be best....have somehow been chosen to raise this child....

You will be provided enough money to be comfortable monthly. But you will never see any of these people again. But they will be watching. You can NEVER tell the child this story.

But they believe you have it within you to raise this child right and push him to be even greater than his...brothers...I guess ill call it.

All you have to do is sign the paperwork....and this child is yours.

You are being asked to take in a baby you never saw before and raise it with the expectation of raising someone to totally dominate whatever he decides to do.

The baby has the potential to rule the world.

But you must raise it. And tell nobody your story. Far as anyone knows its just an adoption.

Would you take on the monumental task of raising the next Rockefeller/John Wooden? And if so...

What would you push him to be?

[AlphaWolf24]

Ok....

Lets say you get home tomorrow to find a Maybach Exelero outside:

http://www.shitwecomeupwit.com/wp-content/gallery/maybach/maybach_exelero_front.jpg

An 8 million dollar car by the way. After taking a moment to look at it you go in to find Paul Allen, Bill Walton, and mayor of New York Mike Bloomberg sitting in your living room as if waiting for you to get home. They tell you not to speak...but to listen. They then give you the following story(Narrated of course by Walton...in whos voice you should read this):

"Son...this will be hard to believe...but you should take what im going to tell you very serious. John D. Rockefeller. Do you know who that was? Im sure you have heard the name. But let me give you a bit more information....

He was much more than the guy Jay-Z named his record label after. He was...adjusting for inflation...the richest non monarch in world history. Through his stakes in oil and other interests he became the worlds first billionaire and personally held just under two percent of all of the money in the United States. In modern terms he had a personal fortune of between 660 billion and 1 trillion dollars. This was a man of exceptional means. And a man of exceptional fears. At age 70 fearing his death he comissioned the creation of the first first human clone known to exist....intending to...(with help from Einstien...) transfer his mind into the young clone to live another full llifetime. But he came to see that the science to pull it off was decades away and was left with a clone he couldnt make use of. Not wanting the child destroyed(as was the standard prodecure when a clone at the time...it was and still is highly illegal)....he instead fabricated a life for him and doctored the records allowing him to be put him up for adoption. He was taken in by a family who was told all this and told never to reveal it to him...but to raise him right and push him to do his best at whatever interested him. And he grew up to dominate college basketball as the original did the business world. Who was this child clone of the great Rockefeller?


http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/320/sstopceo6.jpg



The late great John Wooden:


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/seth_davis/08/24/john.wooden/john-wooden.jpg


Which explains which Bill Walton is telling the story.

He goes on to tell you that while they did not have the ability in JDs day to transfer his knowledge they did manage to save it though means too complicated to explain. Point is....they have it now. And after Woodens death his mental essence was saved as well. The knowledge of the greatest businessman of all time and the greatest coach of all time are saved....and now that science has come far enough the time has come to transfer it all into the mind of a child.

A baby...

A baby clone...of John Wooden/Rockefeller(them being the same person genetically).

One of their assistants wheels in this baby. The baby has all the knowledge of two of the greatest minds in two professions. Its locked away dormant...but it has the knowledge. And the same potential.

You....after months of research into who would be best....have somehow been chosen to raise this child....

You will be provided enough money to be comfortable monthly. But you will never see any of these people again. But they will be watching. You can NEVER tell the child this story.

But they believe you have it within you to raise this child right and push him to be even greater than his...brothers...I guess ill call it.

All you have to do is sign the paperwork....and this child is yours.

You are being asked to take in a baby you never saw before and raise it with the expectation of raising someone to totally dominate whatever he decides to do.

The baby has the potential to rule the world.

But you must raise it. And tell nobody your story. Far as anyone knows its just an adoption.

Would you take on the monumental task of raising the next Rockefeller/John Wooden? And if so...

What would you push him to be?


yeah but wasn't Rockefellar a F@qqit??



anyways...moving along...













raise him to get rid of Arby's.......seriously...who eats there??:confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

Gay? Not sure. Michelangelo(painter/sculpter) was gay. As was at least 2 popes. And first lady Eleanor Roosevelt. Just file those away for later use.


And ive not eaten at Arbys since one in like...Houston...when I drove out there in 08. I used to kill the curly fries but everywhere has them now.

[eliteballer]

Do you want him to dominate the world or make it a better place....

and arbys mushroom and swiss>your life.

[Lebowski]

The story

I am sorry but please stick to basketball stories/analysis. You help raise the level of basketball discussions here.

Anyway.

The car was the only cool thing (you should have stopped after mentioning Walton). My bet is that it belongs to Bill as his volkswagen bus finally retired after running on old McDonalds cooking oil for too long. And that car seems to have a lot of room tall people. Am I right?

[Kblaze8855]

Do you want him to dominate the world or make it a better place....

and arbys mushroom and swiss>your life.

Um....make me a richer father would be nice.

And its hard to get mushroom and swiss wrong isnt it?



And that car seems to have a lot of room tall people. Am I right?

Im sure its roomy but I cant say exactly how roomy. Only person I know has one is Birdman. Rapper not Chris Anderson.

[NuggetsFan]

Spill your knowledge on Ty Lawson. Peak\Career\Accolades w.e.

[Legends66NBA7]

I would push him to be the best he could be. A wise man. Seperate yourself from the pack.

Be a great entrepreneur, I say. Maybe an actuary ?

[RedBlackAttack]

Hmmm...

Greatest "other" guys, huh? When I saw the opening couple of sentences in the OP, I was hoping to see some names that I hadn't seen in a while. Byron, Hornacek and Detlef are all still pretty well known guys.

Let's get some of the real hidden gems out there.

When I think about my own favorite team, a guy that I always really enjoyed watching when I was a kid but that rarely gets mentioned these days is John "Hot Rod" Williams.

He was a very versatile player at 6-11 and he could play either PF or C. He was even athletic enough to spend some time at SF if the lineup dictated it. He was a very good defensive player, but it didn't end there.

I always thought he was at his best off-the-bench in the late-80s... He even averaged 17 ppg and over 8 rebounds in 1990 in a mostly sixth man capacity. In the early-90s, he became a starter and was still productive, but I always felt like he was best as a utility man off of the bench... A sort of Lamar Odom.

Hot Rod also had an excellent playoff run in 1992, averaging 15/8/3 on 55% from the field. He played great against Chicago in the ECFs and I felt that he out-played Ho Grant over the course of the six-game series.

He retired after the 1999 season and he has had some off-the-court trouble since. I think he got arrested recently... Not sure exactly what the charges were.

[Kblaze8855]

Ty is a solid player...he just isnt gonna do much for a while.

Dont get me wrong...id take him. And the Nuggers have a squad(assuming any of it comes back from China). But in the situaiton hes in?

Hes 24. They arent gonna do anything major for at least a couple years. The Nuggets have him for at least 2 more years at a bargain. Hes like the 8th highest paid player on the team. Hes gonna have the ball a lot the next two years and put up numbers and be a fan favorite...


And then...hes gonna want bank. Whatever the new CBA...hes gonna want a lot of money. Near max. Hes gonna do like 14/ and 16/5 the next couple years lead a playoff run or near playoff run one of the years and demand bank.

Lets say he gets it...

The Nuggets are stuck in middle of the pack land. Never bad enough for a high pick never good enough to really win. So he gets like a 4 year deal at 26.

We cant speak on the next 6 years easily but....do I see him leading them anywhere with the team they have? No. So...hes 30? This is where I see him having value.

Hes on big deal #2...and hes ready to win. Doesnt mean he bolts. Depends on the team. But ill just say I think he opts to contend around then. At which point I think his career takes shape. Lawson...even an older slower lawson...on a team that can win? Team on tv all the time?

As a 6th man or 28-29 minute a game starter? Ican see him as one of the people everyone in sports knows even if hesn ot a star. Picture Fisher far as being known...but a better player. You know...more people know Fisher than say...Jason Terry. Lawson I see as a major role player on a good team down the line.

But not now. Denver has work to do to climb out of the middle of the back end of the playoffs or back end of the lottery.

[eliteballer]

Thats easy. Have him go into either finance, corporate law, or computer science/engineering.

[Kblaze8855]

Id actually prop up Larry Nance before Hotrod though Larry is much better known. Hes not known as a player though. Hes known as a dunker...but he played D, ran the floor, blocked shots, rebounded, had a jumper and was all around solid. Hes Josh Smith if he learned something in college before coming to the league. I always respected nance.

[InspiredLebowski]

He wasn't even an "other guy," but I legitimately feel Dale Davis (yes, full homer goggles on) was one of the most underrated players of his generation. Not "underrated" in that he did things people didn't think he could or whatever, just...I guess underappreciated is a much better term. Rik Smits turns into a #2 overall bust w/o him, Reggie doesn't cut baseline for the thousands of wide open J's Kblaze abhors so much without him (and Antonio) being some of the best screeners to ever exist, not to mention gets his lip busted open at least a handful of times a year. And that's just a smidgen of his offensive impact, that's maybe 20% of his game.

[Hondo]

Derek Harper's whole career. Loved his game. No all-star games, and no props.

Defensive stalwart. Chauncey Billups before there was a Billups.
His career compares to someone like Joe Dumars or Lenny Wilkens, but he doesn't get recognised for that. Those 80's Mavericks teams are forgotten about, and they were awesome. They played the 85-86 Lakers to 6 games, before they were beaten by the Rockets. This was Harper's first season as a starter, once he outplayed Brad Davis (cough, chump, cough). 87-88 Mavericks took the Lakers to 7 games in the WCF. The following season they traded Aguirre, lost Schrempf to injury for half the season and lost Tarpley to most of the season due to drugs. Recipe for disaster.

[Kblaze8855]

I had a long argument with a guy claiming Harper would make a team better than AI because he was a "winner". In fact having just found that...


The only years of his career where he was arguably the best his teams won 28, 22, and 11 games. Yes...11. The only season he was without question the best player on a team(Blackman was gone)...his team went 11 and 71.

People like to mention winning role players and compare them to less winning superstars but it just doesnt work here. Not only did Harper not win anything AI didnt when he was a supporting player...when he was the best player he had the second worst record in NBA history. And the next year? They went 2 and 27 before he was traded to the Knicks.

Which has nothing to do with what you said...he just shouldnt be compared to AI.

[Hondo]

I had a long argument with a guy claiming Harper would make a team better than AI because he was a "winner". In fact having just found that...


I agree with the AI stuff.

When Derek Harper isn't backing his semi-trailer out of Patrick Ewing's nostril, he's dominating a team in the 80's or early 90's with great defense, smart passes and clutch shooting. Leadership, poise, new his limitations. He would make any team better as a glue guy point guard. I would take him over Deron Williams (way overrated).

[Hondo]

One more thing, it pains me that Harper has two accolades.... All Defensive 2nd team twice. It's like the Mavericks in the 1980's were erased from history 1984 style. We're at war with Eurasia, no Eastasia, no scratch that Eurasia, no we were never in a war, whatchu talkin' about Willis?

Derek Harper needs a plaque or something insignificant in Dallas to commemorate his career. The Mavericks retired Brad Davis' number. Seriously, Brad freakin' Davis..... the guy Harper outplayed in his 3rd season, and then had the starting job for 7 full seasons. He took them to great heights with Blackman. It would be kind of like the some chump like Avery Johnson getting his number retired by the Spurs, and then Tony Parker (sans championships) not getting his retired.

To sum it up, during the 80's, I heard rumors of DJ being traded from the Celtics. I actually said at the time, if we trade him, we need to get Harper. I rated Harper as a top 5 point guard in the 80's. I could only realistically rank Magic, Stockton and Isiah Thomas ahead of him. DJ, Cheeks and Porter were at or slightly below his level.

The most underrated PG in NBA history.

[Reggie43]

He wasn't even an "other guy," but I legitimately feel Dale Davis (yes, full homer goggles on) was one of the most underrated players of his generation. Not "underrated" in that he did things people didn't think he could or whatever, just...I guess underappreciated is a much better term. Rik Smits turns into a #2 overall bust w/o him, Reggie doesn't cut baseline for the thousands of wide open J's Kblaze abhors so much without him (and Antonio) being some of the best screeners to ever exist, not to mention gets his lip busted open at least a handful of times a year. And that's just a smidgen of his offensive impact, that's maybe 20% of his game.

I agree with everything you said but as much as I like Dale Davis the least appreciated Pacer for me was Derrick Mckey.

He was a very good defender being able to guard multiple positions with ease, a team oriented player with a very high basketball IQ. He was always willing to make the extra pass and always shot a high percentage

[winwin]

Greatest "other" guys...


Norm Nixon?

[Hondo]

McKey and Nixon, both solid calls.

Luc Longley is under-appreciated. People point to Jordan, Pippen, Rodman and very rarely Kukoc in that order. Longley as a solid defender, and was money out to the free throw line. Like an automatic jumper, no matter how ugly looking the motion was. He was also an amazing passer from the high post to cutters.

I think people forget that he averaged over 11ppg with the 1997-98 Bulls.

[DJ Leon Smith]

McKey and Nixon, both solid calls.

Luc Longley is under-appreciated. People point to Jordan, Pippen, Rodman and very rarely Kukoc in that order. Longley as a solid defender, and was money out to the free throw line. Like an automatic jumper, no matter how ugly looking the motion was. He was also an amazing passer from the high post to cutters.

I think people forget that he averaged over 11ppg with the 1997-98 Bulls.

Longley was the perfect center/post player for the triangle. Was kind of like Gasol that you could throw him the ball in the high post and run cutters off him, he had a few low post moves as well to keep defenders honest. If he was built like Dale Davis (or had DD's aggression), he would have been borderline all-star.

[Collie]

Jerome Kersey on the Blazers gets my nod. Dude was pretty productive but got overshadowed by Drexler, Porter and even Buck Williams.

Speaking of which, how about Jeff Malone? NOBODY ever talks about him anymore. I don't think many people even know who he is, but he was a 19-20 ppg scorer on the early 90's Jazz with Karl Malone and John Stockton.

[pauk]

I do virtually nothing. Well I have to do virtually nothing. I do more than required. all im required to do is be in the building, make sure people are generally being safe, and now and then train some kid who really just uses the job here to get a license on the various machinery I can train them to use. My primary purpose is...if something or someone gets ****ed up im accountable and am required for insurance to cover it. So in that role I am mostly useless...but required.

I spend most of the day on my computer or wandering around arguing about sports with people who have work to do. Right now im eating a reeses cup and streaming a movie. The most work I will be doing tonight is walking to a different computer when the guy fixing our systems comes over here. It will knock out the internet over here. So ill go to some other office.

That is the extent of my work tonight.

:lol

[DJ Leon Smith]

Jerome Kersey on the Blazers gets my nod. Dude was pretty productive but got overshadowed by Drexler, Porter and even Buck Williams.

Speaking of which, how about Jeff Malone? NOBODY ever talks about him anymore. I don't think many people even know who he is, but he was a 19-20 ppg scorer on the early 90's Jazz with Karl Malone and John Stockton.

Jeff Malone was great, hit that falling out of bounds three that was one of the most replayed highlights of the 80s. Was kind of like a less explosive Rip Hamilton, give him a tenth of a second of daylight from midrange and you can count the basket.

[All Net]

More blaze posts the better

[JohnnySic]

Some more "other" guys:

- James Edwards on the Bad Boy Pistons. Gave them a large presence off the bench. There's a reason they kept him rather than Mahorn in the expansion draft.

- Buck Williams. Textbook pf's rarely get credit unless they are big stars.

- Otis Thorpe. See Williams. On those Rockets teams, even Horry got more glory than him - ouch.

- Nick Anderson - Shaq and Penny got all the glory, Dennis Scott was the "cool" third wheel, but Anderson was the glue guy. Too bad 4 bricks killed his career.

[RRR3]

Someone do T-Mac (my all-time favorite player :D)

[Miller for 3]

As for other guys, I don't think Sam Cassell ever gets enough credit. Seems like he was always on teams making deep playoff runs

[Jacks3]

.I feel like Kobe is getting underrated lately. Not all time. But right now. For the player he currently is. People are ready to write him off as elite. And to me the thing you most have to respect about Kobe is his "**** you"ness.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

James Edwards was a good call.

And on Kobe...

I also thought Shaq was being written off too early in like 2004 and expected him to have a classic Shaq like season in Miami. He almost won MVP but he wasnt young Shaq anymore. So who knows.

[JohnnySic]

I remember whan Shaq lost all that weight his first season in Miami. He looked younger and just a whole lot better. Does anyone have a pic of him at that point?

[chains5000]

I remember whan Shaq lost all that weight his first season in Miami. He looked younger and just a whole lot better. Does anyone have a pic of him at that point?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-10/20/xin_5610011915136311035614.jpg
http://img.terra.com.mx/galeria_de_fotos/images/114/226311.jpg
Only pics I've found from his debut game against the Hawks.

[Kblaze8855]

I couldnt find the pics I wanted but I remember he came out saying he lost weight and he looked like Orlando shaq. he was in a little muscle shirt or something trying to show how fit he was. He looked ready to murder the world.

[eliteballer]

You could see Shaq start to a slip a bit in the 03 playoffs. His chippies weren't automatic anymore. I think if he showed the committment that first season in Miami 2 or 3 seasons earlier he would have lasted longer.

With Kobe it depends if his knee is truly healthy. I think since 05 the only years its been healthy are 07,08,09.

[Kblaze8855]

Shaq did put up 18/8 on 61% in only 30 minutes a game and made all NBA playing 75 games at age 37 in like his 16th season. Not many can say that. Shaq held up pretty late in his career. Gave the Raptors 45 on80% the nthe Lakers 33 on 72% back to back. Played prime Dwight to a standstill.

Shaq had a little flashback in Phoenix.

[ihatetimthomas]

As much as I hated him as a King, I always liked Doug Christies defensive prowess. Great feet, hands and could defend the best perimeter players in the game. I took notice of him when he was drafted to the Lakers. His career got a jump start in Toronto and he become the true definition of a great role player on the kings. Did a bit of everything.

[catch24]

You could see Shaq start to a slip a bit in the 03 playoffs. His chippies weren't automatic anymore. I think if he showed the committment that first season in Miami 2 or 3 seasons earlier he would have lasted longer.

With Kobe it depends if his knee is truly healthy. I think since 05 the only years its been healthy are 07,08,09.

Crazy thing is he wasn't even healthy that year (broke his pinky finger).

[Hondo]

Someone do T-Mac (my all-time favorite player :D)

Guy is already done, ha!

[Toizumi]

He wasn't even an "other guy," but I legitimately feel Dale Davis (yes, full homer goggles on) was one of the most underrated players of his generation. Not "underrated" in that he did things people didn't think he could or whatever, just...I guess underappreciated is a much better term. Rik Smits turns into a #2 overall bust w/o him, Reggie doesn't cut baseline for the thousands of wide open J's Kblaze abhors so much without him (and Antonio) being some of the best screeners to ever exist, not to mention gets his lip busted open at least a handful of times a year. And that's just a smidgen of his offensive impact, that's maybe 20% of his game.

Yeah, Dale did all the little things. Hard worker. I was excited when the Blazers got him, but ultimately he dissapointed a bit.
Didn't fit in quite well with the team. Part of this was that we played him at the 5 and kept him down low on the block. Dale could get you some boards and did some damage on D, but he was definitely a better fit at the 4 (where we already had Sheed)


A player that will never be mentioned much, but was awesome in his day, is Corliss Williamson. A hard working and physical player that could get buckets. He was just 6'7 but had the game of a PF, since that was what he played before making it to the league.
I rewatched the 04 finals a while ago and at multiple times throughout the series (although never for long) he was out there guarding Shaq. Strong as hell. He didnt have a strong playoff run in 04, but he was still a pretty big part of that Pistons team.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos2/2002-04-23-inside-williamson.jpg

[Toizumi]

I couldnt find the pics I wanted but I remember he came out saying he lost weight and he looked like Orlando shaq. he was in a little muscle shirt or something trying to show how fit he was. He looked ready to murder the world.

http://www.aolcdn.com/ch_bv/shaquille-oneal-335a061407.jpg

Around 06-07 I believe

[artificial]

Yeah, Dale did all the little things. Hard worker. I was excited when the Blazers got him, but ultimately he dissapointed a bit.
Didn't fit in quite well with the team. Part of this was that we played him at the 5 and kept him down low on the block. Dale could get you some boards and did some damage on D, but he was definitely a better fit at the 4 (where we already had Sheed)


A player that will never be mentioned much, but was awesome in his day, is Corliss Williamson. A hard working and physical player that could get buckets. He was just 6'7 but had the game of a PF, since that was what he played before making it to the league.
I rewatched the 04 finals a while ago and at multiple times throughout the series (although never for long) he was out there guarding Shaq. Strong as hell. He didnt have a strong playoff run in 04, but he was still a pretty big part of that Pistons team.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos2/2002-04-23-inside-williamson.jpg

Yeah, Corliss Williamson was a great guy. Always gave me the impression it was one of those guys that worked hard for everything he got. As you mention, strong as hell, and yet adapted to play SF pretty well. That was one of his biggest assets, he could play big, and he developed enough range and speed enough to put him at SF. Got him a 6MOY. Loved that guy.

And while we are derailing with out favorite non-stars, I always respected Jerome Williams (yes, another Piston). Guy played hard every second on the court, and was a top-notch cheerleader when on the bench. Always got the crowd excited, whether it was dunking, hustling, or yelling from the bench. Also, his nickname Junk Yard Dog was sticky. Gotta love that kind of players.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos/jerome-williams-2001-02-22-trade.jpg

[Nelson14]

As much as I hated him as a King, I always liked Doug Christies defensive prowess. Great feet, hands and could defend the best perimeter players in the game. I took notice of him when he was drafted to the Lakers. His career got a jump start in Toronto and he become the true definition of a great role player on the kings. Did a bit of everything.


just wish he wouldn't have hated orlando as much as he did

[Dizzle-2k7]

bruce bowen might never get the respect he deserves.. his prime defense is on epic levels and he was a HUGE piece for the spurs runs.

[ihatetimthomas]

bruce bowen might never get the respect he deserves.. his prime defense is on epic levels and he was a HUGE piece for the spurs runs.

I disagree. He was given huge amounts of credit when he was on the Spurs. He was considered the best perimeter defender in the league for years and it was pretty much a consensus that he was a vital piece to the Spurs success. I think he has been given the credit he deserves.

[Dizzle-2k7]

I disagree. He was given huge amounts of credit when he was on the Spurs. He was considered the best perimeter defender in the league for years and it was pretty much a consensus that he was a vital piece to the Spurs success. I think he has been given the credit he deserves.

but do you know how hard he had to work to get there? if not for the Spurs brilliant organization, he's probably a 12th man journeyman, because nowadays nobody values a guy with his abilities.

bruce bowen shoulda been starting on an nba team since his rookie year, not be a dude bouncing overseas, cba, etc.

cant wait till san antonio retires his jersey, if they do, i hope so.

[magnax1]

Ok....

Lets say you get home tomorrow to find a Maybach Exelero outside:

http://www.shitwecomeupwit.com/wp-content/gallery/maybach/maybach_exelero_front.jpg

An 8 million dollar car by the way. After taking a moment to look at it you go in to find Paul Allen, Bill Walton, and mayor of New York Mike Bloomberg sitting in your living room as if waiting for you to get home. They tell you not to speak...but to listen. They then give you the following story(Narrated of course by Walton...in whos voice you should read this):

"Son...this will be hard to believe...but you should take what im going to tell you very serious. John D. Rockefeller. Do you know who that was? Im sure you have heard the name. But let me give you a bit more information....

He was much more than the guy Jay-Z named his record label after. He was...adjusting for inflation...the richest non monarch in world history. Through his stakes in oil and other interests he became the worlds first billionaire and personally held just under two percent of all of the money in the United States. In modern terms he had a personal fortune of between 660 billion and 1 trillion dollars. This was a man of exceptional means. And a man of exceptional fears. At age 70 fearing his death he comissioned the creation of the first first human clone known to exist....intending to...(with help from Einstien...) transfer his mind into the young clone to live another full llifetime. But he came to see that the science to pull it off was decades away and was left with a clone he couldnt make use of. Not wanting the child destroyed(as was the standard prodecure when a clone was useless...it was and still is highly illegal)....he instead fabricated a life for him and doctored the records allowing him to be put him up for adoption. He was taken in by a family who was told all this and told never to reveal it to him...but to raise him right and push him to do his best at whatever interested him. And he grew up to dominate college basketball as the original did the business world. Who was this child clone of the great Rockefeller?


http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/320/sstopceo6.jpg



The late great John Wooden:


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/seth_davis/08/24/john.wooden/john-wooden.jpg


Which explains why Bill Walton is telling the story.

He goes on to tell you that while they did not have the ability in JDs day to transfer his knowledge they did manage to save it though means too complicated to explain. Point is....they have it now. And after Woodens death his mental essence was saved as well. The knowledge of the greatest businessman of all time and the greatest coach of all time are saved....and now that science has come far enough the time has come to transfer it all into the mind of a child.

A baby...

A baby clone...of John Wooden/Rockefeller(them being the same person genetically).

One of their assistants wheels in this baby. The baby has all the knowledge of two of the greatest minds in two professions. Its locked away dormant...but it has the knowledge. And the same potential.

You....after months of research into who would be best....have somehow been chosen to raise this child....

You will be provided enough money to be comfortable monthly. But you will never see any of these people again. But they will be watching. You can NEVER tell the child this story.

But they believe you have it within you to raise this child right and push him to be even greater than his...brothers...I guess ill call it.

All you have to do is sign the paperwork....and this child is yours.

You are being asked to take in a baby you never saw before and raise it with the expectation of raising someone to totally dominate whatever he decides to do.

The baby has the potential to rule the world.

But you must raise it. And tell nobody your story. Far as anyone knows its just an adoption.

Would you take on the monumental task of raising the next Rockefeller/John Wooden? And if so...

What would you push him to be?
This is an interesting question to me, not because the question itself is interesting but instead it brings up other interesting question such as...
Could you even expect a clone of John Wooden or Rockefeller to be successful in any other situations? I mean if you think about it, if you actually cloned Rockefeller and put him in the life of Wooden what are the chances he succeeds anywhere near as much? There are some things people's minds are just built for. If you give me a book on history or science and a couple hours I can read the thing from front to cover and remember it almost perfectly for an extremely long period, but if you gave me a piano and a year to become a great player it might not happen.
On top of that, if you try to get someone to become great at something they hate it just won't happen. Larry Bird was great because he probably spent 5 hours a day playing basketball for 20 years, and you just can't go through with that sort of thing unless you love it.
Even then Rockefeller was as rich as he was because he lived in a time when there was little regulation and corporations basically ruled America (I might be wrong on this, but I vaguely remember that in the late 1800s the US Senate was mostly made up of owners of large corporations) Bring him back today, and there is no chance he owns 2% of the US economy.
I'm guessing you've probably already thought of that stuff and just tried to ignore it, but it's difficult for me to in this sort of question. I think I'd try to make Rockefeller a bussinessman and Wooden a Coach/Player, and even then I wouldn't expect them to be as successful. If you're giving me a baby that could be successful at anything... I guess I'd just try to put them in a position of as much power as possible. Probably a politician.
It also makes me wonder how Bill Walton found out Wooden was a clone of Rockefeller...

[Toizumi]

Yeah, Corliss Williamson was a great guy. Always gave me the impression it was one of those guys that worked hard for everything he got. As you mention, strong as hell, and yet adapted to play SF pretty well. That was one of his biggest assets, he could play big, and he developed enough range and speed enough to put him at SF. Got him a 6MOY. Loved that guy.

And while we are derailing with out favorite non-stars, I always respected Jerome Williams (yes, another Piston). Guy played hard every second on the court, and was a top-notch cheerleader when on the bench. Always got the crowd excited, whether it was dunking, hustling, or yelling from the bench. Also, his nickname Junk Yard Dog was sticky. Gotta love that kind of players.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos/jerome-williams-2001-02-22-trade.jpg

Nice namedrop!
JYD was easy to like. He played his heart out where ever he went. A fan favorite.. Although he spent most of his career on the Pistons, I'll remember him most as a Raptor.

I remember seeing a clip of him in Africa for basketball without borders and I hardly ever say this (cuz you don't know what a player is ever like as a person) but he seemed to be a genuine good guy too. I tried looking for this speech he gave there, but couldnt find it. Too bad.

http://www.bonusbasket.com/wallpapers/d/70-1/NBA+Jerome.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

And while we are derailing with out favorite non-stars, I always respected Jerome Williams (yes, another Piston). Guy played hard every second on the court, and was a top-notch cheerleader when on the bench. Always got the crowd excited, whether it was dunking, hustling, or yelling from the bench. Also, his nickname Junk Yard Dog was sticky. Gotta love that kind of players.


This topic came up when I was looking for an old topic on Anderson Varejao during which I called him a poor mans Jerome Williams. Hes up to a 10/11 average so far. Better than JYD but Jerome never played many minutes. I was surprised to see how young he is. He should probably be just about to retire or gone last year. But hes been gone for like 7 years. What happened? Injury or just nobody wanted him so he retired against his will at like 31 Glenn Robinson style?


This is an interesting question to me, not because the question itself is interesting but instead it brings up other interesting question such as...
Could you even expect a clone of John Wooden or Rockefeller to be successful in any other situations? I mean if you think about it, if you actually cloned Rockefeller and put him in the life of Wooden what are the chances he succeeds anywhere near as much? There are some things people's minds are just built for. If you give me a book on history or science and a couple hours I can read the thing from front to cover and remember it almost perfectly for an extremely long period, but if you gave me a piano and a year to become a great player it might not happen.
On top of that, if you try to get someone to become great at something they hate it just won't happen. Larry Bird was great because he probably spent 5 hours a day playing basketball for 20 years, and you just can't go through with that sort of thing unless you love it.
Even then Rockefeller was as rich as he was because he lived in a time when there was little regulation and corporations basically ruled America (I might be wrong on this, but I vaguely remember that in the late 1800s the US Senate was mostly made up of owners of large corporations) Bring him back today, and there is no chance he owns 2% of the US economy.
I'm guessing you've probably already thought of that stuff and just tried to ignore it, but it's difficult for me to in this sort of question. I think I'd try to make Rockefeller a bussinessman and Wooden a Coach/Player, and even then I wouldn't expect them to be as successful. If you're giving me a baby that could be successful at anything... I guess I'd just try to put them in a position of as much power as possible. Probably a politician.
It also makes me wonder how Bill Walton found out Wooden was a clone of Rockefeller...

I have things to say about that but I cant flesh them out properly at 6am having been up about 22 hours. I'll get back to this...

[dude77]

I do virtually nothing. Well I have to do virtually nothing. I do more than required. all im required to do is be in the building, make sure people are generally being safe, and now and then train some kid who really just uses the job here to get a license on the various machinery I can train them to use. My primary purpose is...if something or someone gets ****ed up im accountable and am required for insurance to cover it. So in that role I am mostly useless...but required.

I spend most of the day on my computer or wandering around arguing about sports with people who have work to do. Right now im eating a reeses cup and streaming a movie. The most work I will be doing tonight is walking to a different computer when the guy fixing our systems comes over here. It will knock out the internet over here. So ill go to some other office.

That is the extent of my work tonight.

sounds like a fulfilling career .. good luck

[NugzHeat3]

Just a place for me to throw the basketball related things that pop into my head as I sit and wait for some guys to finish some electrical work im required to be in the building for....


Greatest "Other guys" of all time?

Guys from great teams who never come up when the team is described...but they played major roles.

Guys like:

Byron Scott - I believe he was the Lakers leading scorer a couple times in the 80s. Would smash on anyone. Could shoot. Play D. Nobody cares because of Magic, Worthy, and Kareem. Cooper is more remembered as well. Maybe Rambis too.

Jeff Hornacek - Stockton/Malone jazz should be Stockton/Malone/Hornacek Jazz to me. Not that he was as good as them but it was a clear divide from Jeff to their next best player. He was an all star level guy on the Suns and 76ers and just let go of that to play a role. But he was still bigtime in a lot of series and games. No hops Manu.

Detlef Schregevbregvmph. In 95 or 96 I believe he, Kemp, and GP were all on the all nba third team. At least he and Kemp were. But nobody remembers him on those teams as major guy. He was putting up like 20 a game for a minute or two. Should be the GP/Kemp/Detlef Sonics not just Kemp and Payton. Detlef was MAJOR for that team.


Solid players I feel need a little more attention. First of many things I will post then never follow up on in the coming hours.....
Good call on these guys.

I'd like to add Robert Horry and Derrick McKey.

Robert Horry is probably the most disrespected player I've seen because he'll be forever attached to the "well, yeah Horry has 7 your point is invalid" argument.

Nobody remembers him getting Scottie Pippen comparisons when he was playing with the Rockets. He had a lot of similar traits except for ability to put the ball on the floor and drive to the rim to kick out to shooters or dump off in the paint.

He obviously wasn't as good as him but a player in the similar mold. I remember the versatility when Houston switched him to PF in 1995 vs Barkley and he played good defense on him. He then outplayed Grant in the finals and Grant compared him to Pippen. He even set a finals record for steals; great instincts in the passing lanes and double teaming hard with long arms.

He was a great fit on offense too. Easily one of the best entry passers I've seen and knew how to space the floor and cut when Hakeem would get double teamed.

His career arc is pretty weird. He had a great rookie year especially in the series vs Seattle. He sucked hard in his second year until Houston traded him but they got lucky when he failed the physical. Rest is history.

Then his career fell off hard after he threw in the towel with PHX. Literally.

Derrick McKey is another guy I loved for his versatility. You'll see him as one of the "trash" that Reggie Miller led to the ECF when Larry Brown was saying he was the best player on the team and the guy that needed to be a leader because Miller wasn't a leader at all.

He was crucial to Seattle's trapping defense in 1993. You'd see him pick up PGs at full court, hounding them with his long arms, quickness and then he'd recover to his assignment at time. He also trapped hard along with Payton to force deflections/turnovers that would ignite the break.

I think he was too unselfish offensively though. He had more skills than what his numbers would tell you but I think he hurt the Pacers often when he didn't look to create for himself enough. Too often he was willing to just pass the ball to the post or swing around the perimeter. He had a good enough handle to penetrate off the dribble and finish, score in the post with the turnaround and jump hook. He also did all the dirty work. Karl ran him at point forward at times.

Another guy I'd say is PJ Brown on the 1997 Heat. He sucked pretty hard offensively but he was a great defender. He guarded Ewing about 70% of that series and held his own. Zo barely checked him except for game seven because PJ was suspended. He was also excellent at fronting which Riley loved. Zo would rotate quickly in case they got the lob/entry in.

Jeff Hornacek is a great call. He was freaking deadly in the 1996 WCF any time he got a shot up. Seattle specifically had to adjust to him and started paying attention in game seven and they were able to limit him. He was a pretty good playmaker too and unreal at those unbalanced, circus shots around the rim. Often finished after contact.

[NugzHeat3]

Some more "other" guys:

- James Edwards on the Bad Boy Pistons. Gave them a large presence off the bench. There's a reason they kept him rather than Mahorn in the expansion draft.

- Buck Williams. Textbook pf's rarely get credit unless they are big stars.

- Otis Thorpe. See Williams. On those Rockets teams, even Horry got more glory than him - ouch.

- Nick Anderson - Shaq and Penny got all the glory, Dennis Scott was the "cool" third wheel, but Anderson was the glue guy. Too bad 4 bricks killed his career.
Buck got enough credit. He finished above Drexler in MVP voting in 1990, made several All-Defensive teams in his career and a few All-STar games as well.

Otis Thorpe is a good call though. He was a good inside presence that could score in the low-post with his back to the basket and face up and beat guys off the dribble. Few know this but he averaged 20.7 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.5 apg on 58.0 FG% in the first month Hakeem missed due to that eye injury at the hands of Cartwright. In the second, he put up averaged 20.3 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 3.4 apg on 56.0 FG%. He always had more ability than his numbers showed because they didn't really run plays for him and he often went invisible for stretches. I'd suspect they ran a lot of pick and rolls with him and Kenny Smith and he got touches in the post when Hakeem missed time.

He may be the best at those touchdown passes I've seen because of those huge hands that allowed him to palm the ball. You'd even see him lead the break and finish. Check this play out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0mD8JckVYg

I disagree with Nick Anderson. He was far from the glue guy. That would be Horace Grant because he was the only vet on the team, a guy with championship experience and plugged all the holes. He played excellent defense, often switching on to Shaq's assignment and shutting them down.

There were season games where he guarded Hakeem and Robinson and shut them down. He spread the floor and could shoot from the baseline, near the top of the key and finish around the rim from putbacks and dump offs. He benefited from the attention Shaq and Penny drew but he also knew when to be at the right place at the right time.

Also, I'm not sure Dennis Scott was the third wheel. Nick would at least try to create on his own but Scott was basically a shooter used to spread the floor. They never ran any plays for him except for a few times where I remember them trying to exploit Reggie Miller guarding Scott in the post. Nick would get more touches I'd say.

[bmulls]

When I was like 7 or 8 I had an NBA game on the Nintendo 64. My brother would always pick the Sonics and kick my ass with Detlef Schrempf. I hated that dude.

[Kblaze8855]

He may be the best at those touchdown passes I've seen because of those huge hands that allowed him to palm the ball.

Id have to put Oakley first on that one. Not counting guys like Russell and Unseld who ive seen evidence did the same but not enough to compare to Oakley who I watched hundreds of times. Back when Jim McMahon had fallen off people would say Oakley was the best QB in Chicago. He used to get the rebound turn and fire it 80-90 feet like a dart to MJ to dunk it.

He had a game with 15 assists in Chicago and back then he might get 5-6 a game just on outlet passes.

[9erEmpire]

very pathetic thread.

Does your boss know you play around on ISH during work hours?

[Kblaze8855]

Its rare anyone is around who outranks me.

Im pretty much here or a couple other places all day. If not actually sitting down then on my phone using the wifi from across the street. Feel free to not like it.

[9erEmpire]

Its rare anyone is around who outranks me.

Im pretty much here or a couple other places all day. If not actually sitting down then on my phone using the wifi from across the street. Feel free to not like it.


No wonder you are a mod and you watch so much basketball.

Not hating...now that I got more ammo against you.

[nightprowler10]

No wonder you are a mod and you watch so much basketball.

Not hating...now that I got more ammo against you.
Haha, are you even old enough to work?

[NugzHeat3]

Id have to put Oakley first on that one. Not counting guys like Russell and Unseld who ive seen evidence did the same but not enough to compare to Oakley who I watched hundreds of times. Back when Jim McMahon had fallen off people would say Oakley was the best QB in Chicago. He used to get the rebound turn and fire it 80-90 feet like a dart to MJ to dunk it.

He had a game with 15 assists in Chicago and back then he might get 5-6 a game just on outlet passes.
Good call on that.

Oakley's outlets were pretty good. It's hard to really measure such a thing but I'd say he's on the same tier.

His passing in general was one of his stronger suits. He wasn't afraid to be flashy either. I remember a few no looks and behind the backs. There was one that made a top 10 countdown as a Raptor and he had a few plays where he threw oops to either Carter or T-MAC.

I also remember that one play where he rifled a baseline pass falling out of bounds to the top of the key for a Starks 3 late in game 4 vs the Rockets. That plays sums Oakley pretty well.

I'd say Thorpe probably had more chances to showcase his ability though since the Rocket guards used to leak out at just about any "defense turns to offense" opportunity. New York used to do that but not to the same extent because Riley had them slow it down most of the time. He probably had more opportunities on the Bulls which is why I have a hunch you rank him that high.

You ever make an Oakley mix?

[9erEmpire]

Haha, are you even old enough to work?

Does that matter?...it seems like Kblaze doesn't work either.

To answer your question...yes.

[nightprowler10]

Does that matter?...it seems like Kblaze doesn't work either.

To answer your question...yes.
I asked because I always see a greater tendency of shitting on others' jobs from people who are either too young to work, or people who coasted through life and got great high paying jobs. Didn't figure you for the latter.

I guess what I'm saying is, what kind of a person actually gives a rat's ass about what another person does for a living and actually wants to use his job against him in an internet argument?

[Whoah10115]

Oakley was a great player. One of the best defenders and one of the best rebounders I've ever seen. He had back problems and usually his minutes were somewhat managed, relative to what they were in Chicago. A very good passer, with high IQ and unafraid to make any kind of pass. I think Riley was a bit tight with that team. Had it all been opened up, had he gotten in the post more (he was so good when he did), he'd be better remembered.


And on Detlef, good call and bad call. He may be a little overlooked, but that guy was a legitimately great player. He made a few all-star games (should've made two more), twice 6MOTY, two time All-Pro. He was a great player all-around, very good defender too. As perfect a small forward as you're ever gonna see. Honestly, I'm surprised he doesn't get more calls for the Hall. Had the Sonics won a title he definitely would have.

[LiLharvard]

cool... what do u work with kblaze?
You on that phaggy time again bro?

[NugzHeat3]

Another guy I

[Kblaze8855]

I saw Ostertag interviewed somewhere talking about a comeback. He said he knew people wouldnt take him serious but he walked away too early and still loves the game. I think he was gonna go the Dleague route. I was surprised at his age. Hes late 30s. For some reason I didnt seem like he was a young player in the finals. Hes one of those guys who felt old from day one.

[mlh1981]

He looks exactly the same. Stupid haircut and all :lol

http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=GE&Date=20120115&Category=BASKETBALL05&ArtNo=301159906&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&MaxH=400

[Kblaze8855]

http://www.goerie.com/article/20120115/BASKETBALL05/301159906/Ostertag-wants-one-more-shot-at-NBA

^
Story on him.

Im rooting for him but...how many of these vets make it back? Toine even getting looks?

[TheAdmiral3]

kblaze what is your top 10 players of all-time list, homeskillet

[Kblaze8855]

Im not currently in the mood to pretend I dont know who you are and get into a discussion on whatever subject you posted that to start an argument on. I may be shortly though.

Qustion for whoever happens to come in here...


I was about to make a video...then I decided on another one...and another. finally got to 4. But im only doing one.

Charles Oakley

Anthony mason

Team USA history(I have like 5 songs in mind for this...and a topic I suspect will get me hated by non americans)

Young pointguards(Was gonna be Kyrie, Rubio, Wall and someone undecided....possibly Lawson).


Someone pick for me.

[TheAdmiral3]

i just wanted to read your top 10, not refute brah.

[1987_Lakers]

Sidney Moncrief mix, most underrated player in league history and there is still no mix of him on youtube. Disgusting.

[NuggetsFan]

Im not currently in the mood to pretend I dont know who you are and get into a discussion on whatever subject you posted that to start an argument on. I may be shortly though.

Qustion for whoever happens to come in here...


I was about to make a video...then I decided on another one...and another. finally got to 4. But im only doing one.

Charles Oakley

Anthony mason

Team USA history(I have like 5 songs in mind for this...and a topic I suspect will get me hated by non americans)

Young pointguards(Was gonna be Kyrie, Rubio, Wall and someone undecided....possibly Lawson).


Someone pick for me.

Do a Lawson one. Not any really good Lawson mixes last I checked.

[Kblaze8855]

Not in order but...if it were itwould be pretty close to this anyway....

Jordan
kareem
Russell
Wilt
Bird
Magic

Sure of those 6.



Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan

Confident about those 3.

Id accept any of the following people for the last spot:

Kobe
West
Doc
Moses
Oscar
Bob Petitt(I wouldnt put him at the 10 spot but I cant justify calling someone who did an idiot).


I will consider but in the end not accept Barkley, Malone, Baylor, Wade or Lebron even though almost everything ive ever said on the subject contradicts that decision. Im also ignoring the fact that people like David Robinson were in the league with several people ive listed in their primes and was considered better than them by many many people.

If you want a more set in stone list...you are out of luck. I do not have one and it would take me a long time to provide it. Longer than im going to take.

[Whoah10115]

Oak, Moncrief (I wanna see more of his game. Surprised this guy isn't in the Hall), Mase.

[Legends66NBA7]

Im not currently in the mood to pretend I dont know who you are and get into a discussion on whatever subject you posted that to start an argument on. I may be shortly though.

Qustion for whoever happens to come in here...


I was about to make a video...then I decided on another one...and another. finally got to 4. But im only doing one.

Charles Oakley

Anthony mason

Team USA history(I have like 5 songs in mind for this...and a topic I suspect will get me hated by non americans)

Young pointguards(Was gonna be Kyrie, Rubio, Wall and someone undecided....possibly Lawson).


Someone pick for me.

Team USA History.

Interested in not only the history, but the topic you have in mind.

[Legends66NBA7]

Trying to think of who the NBA has left who needs a ring...

The old guys who have done so much for so long and id like to see get a Kidd style ring while still being key players like he was...

All I can come up with? Steve Nash.

AI too but hes gone. But Nash is it right now. And im not sure how it happens.

I wouldnt wanna see him on the Spurs or Lakers. Like seeing Reggie on the Bulls or Knicks...

Mavs? Nah. Been there done that. Plus they have their old guy point.

Knicks? Magic?

Ok but....how do they get him?

Im thinking Nash goes out never playing a finals game. Which would give me a bit of personal "See...what I say? The **** did I say?" looking back on 05 and 06. But hes not a bad guy. I wouldnt be upset see him get it done.,

Also, once again regarding this question, a few more names came to mind:

Jermaine O`Neal ?
Tracy McGrady ?
Antawn Jamison ?
Joe Johnson ?


And if a team picks him up in the future (big if)... Allen Iverson ?

[Glide2keva]

Otis Thorpe.

People don't really talk about him from his Rockets days, but he was great, to me anyway.

Chuck Person: God did I hate that guy. The Rifleman was just deadly from three. I daresay more so than Miller on those Pacers teams.

Kevin Willis: Solid center, who had mad game.

[NugzHeat3]

Team USA mix from 1994 or/and 2003. That's all.

[Brunch@Five]

Shawn Bradley mix. And not one where all you see is him getting punked :lol
He was a great player early in his career and was extremely mobile considering his size. Averaged 15/9/3 blocks for the Mavs in 97 in limited minutes. Even had a few triple-doubles (with blocks) that year.

doing some research on basketball-reference.com: Bradley is one of only 3 players since '86 to have a 20/20/10 game!

He definitely is judged unfairly by the post-2000 generation.

[Norcaliblunt]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Rex Chapman. Dude could ball.

[Kblaze8855]

I actually made a Shawn Bradley mix once but youtube deleted it.

[chips93]

Young pointguards(Was gonna be Kyrie, Rubio, Wall and someone undecided....possibly Lawson).


Someone pick for me.

holiday? hes got a nice refined game

[chips93]

Also, once again regarding this question, a few more names came to mind:

Jermaine O`Neal ?
Tracy McGrady ?
Antawn Jamison ?
Joe Johnson ?


And if a team picks him up in the future (big if)... Allen Iverson ?

really? i dont feel that if any of them retired without a ring, people would make a point of it. i mean, they were all good players, but not so good that you'd expect them to be on a championship team.

[PTB Fan]

Great thread.

Other choices for greatest "other guy" are Marques Johnson, Sidney Moncrief, Paul Pressey of the 80's Bucks. I have to mention Bob Davies. He played in the 40's or so. I know that's like way off but he won a MVP with Mikan in the same league.