Knee sprain

[Atrokkus]

Okay, this thread is mainly for your "war stories" in regard to knee sprains/strains or meniscus-related conditions (if any such thread existed, I'm sorry -- browsed dozens of pages, couldn't find one). But first, my own story:

This is my first semi-serious injury (only had a right ankle sprain before). Played a pickup game on asphalt. Was dribbling circling toward the basket with my man on me, and then attempted a jump-stop to pull-up on him, and my right knee rolled hard on jump-stop, before I could even attempt to make a jumpshot. I've had pretty much two vectors of movement at once, and the stop was very abrupt and my right leg took the impact full-on. Fell down immediately and felt bones click a couple of times, rather audibly. The pain was rather mild -- I mean, nothing you'd expect from a miniscus/ACL tear (not that I've felt it myself heh), so I figured it was a sprain right away. Mostly dull pain, which was soon almost completely gone. But the worst symptom was the instability of the joint and constant twisting at every awkward angle -- which pissed me off more than any dull pain that i had initially. Entering a car was the worst, at first -- I would always use my right leg as pivot, out of habit/reflex, and it'd twist like a mofo.

Could not play on, and took a cab home. Went to the general traumatologist the same night. Just a general ER traumatologist guy, he only did an xray (although it was pretty obvious my bones were just fine), and no echo or MRI (duh). Applied cold, etc. It swelled the next day, but it went away quick enough (used some local medication for that). I have been using the rather tight bandage ever since then, 24/7. Since then I've spent like FOUR weeks recovering now (doing self-weight exercises at home, no weightlifting yet). The last 6-10 days I've been feeling increasingly comfortable with my leg (except i couldn't bend it completely without feeling some pain), and intensified my home workouts (boxing practices, jumping rope, etc), and like five days ago I tried balling a little -- not full-force -- on the street again, and it went very well (could sprint, crossing over (although nothing too risky), do jumpshots, even did a spin move to the basket). Still hasn't went to see orthopedist (I know, I'm a retard).

And at the end of my fourth week (today) I went balling again, and was just meaning to ball half-force again, and just a couple of minutes into the game the a-hole knee rolled again! Not as bad as the first time, but still quite bad. I don't even remember what I did, probably just an awkward angle again. Not sure if it's going to swell tomorrow.

So yeah, I realize taht I'm a dumbass for not going to the doctor for proper diagnosis (that traumatologist dude doesn't count, with his useless xrays). Then again, I realize that with this type of injury there seems to be no treatment apart from surgery (arthroscopic). What are the odds of me needing it, though? I mean, what are surgery options if there is no tear, just some sprain?
Have any of you had a similar sprain, and did you just , like, rest for a month and then used a knee brace and there were no recurrences?

Since i play amateur right now, I've decided to suspend all my basketball activities for at least 1-2 months. I'm an experienced weightlifter, and will return to the gym for a LOT of leg work (mostly machines this time though), and some of my usual routines, as the only exercises that bother my knee are dynamic (as in bball), I can do a lot of other things very well even today after this second roll.

I mean when it was an ankle sprain, i would just shrug it off no problem. But a knee is a knee, right?

[thejumpa]

Knee issues are a bitch. I've rolled my ankle a million times and every single time I've come back fairly quick or just played through it. Never really went to the doctor. I've gone through Patellar Tendonitis(Jumpers Knee), hyperextension of the knee(which led to a bone bruise), and know I'm pretty sure I've sprained my meniscus. Haven't gone to the doctor yet but the symptoms are there.

Long story short, I was going pretty hard a local outdoor court here in Seattle. I'm no D1 or whatever player but I'm athletic and like to think I can ball a little. When we were all playing 21, this guy who supposedly played PG at FSU a few years back showed up. He hadn't played ball in like 4-5 months, was 31, and just wanted to ball. We were going at the entire game(we played two). The combo of me already having Jumpers Knee, playing in crosstrainers, having not so strong legs(haven't trained them in a weight because of the jumpers knee), and playing a hard outdoor court really messed me up. My left knee felt like it had no lift in it. It was sore, swelling, and my adrenaline was running out. By the time I got home it was I was done. Had no lift or explosiveness in my knee whatsoever.

A week or so has gone by and I'm trying to rest and just chill out. Been on the treadbike for an hour every day, jumproping, lunges, calf raises, and I keep it wrapped in an ace bandage with a McDavid patellar wrap over it. It's gotten better but it's still a little sore. No basketball or heavy weightlifting until I get this shit figured out. I like to slash and score close to the basket where bigger guys are so I figure it's the best thing to do for now.

[Rake2204]

I've never had a serious knee injury. I had one take me by surprise once though. I felt it tweak in the back of my knee one evening and continued playing. The following morning, there was heavy pain and I had trouble walking, particularly up and down stairs. I assumed it was some kind of sprain and I was out of commission for an extended period of time. I'm thankful I made it to 27 with that being my only real knee injury to this point.

Anyway, as you recognized, I wouldn't mess around with knees. If it's hurt, I'd say the worst thing we can do is try to speed up the recovery. I've learned with some injuries to wait until I feel healthy enough to play, then wait even more days on top of that. There's been too many instances where I've doubled my injury time from trying to come back too soon.

[Swaggin916]

just rest it and do body weight exercises and get it full strength and then some... it just takes time. That last thing you want to do is be impatient. That's what I did and now I'm screwed. for the last 6 weeks I have been doing what I just said... but for so long i played on it once in a while when i wasn't in too much pain... but all it did was make things weaker and just make things take longer to heal. I figure i will be out for a year or 2 but i have no idea... and the last 2 years have been hell with injuries... I will lose out on 4 prime years of my athletic life (21-24) or maybe more because of trying to play through injuries. It just isn't worth it long run or even present because you can't do things you normally could.

[Atrokkus]

Swaggin916 / Rake2204, yeah that's very true. Being addicted to balling is such a bitch sometimes. My biggest mistake was trying to ball right when I started feeling better, instead of hitting the gym hard with lots of leg machine exercises.

Btw, right now it's morning-noon and I woke up from shooting pain in my knee :( I really hope it's not meniscus-related.

[the_chosen_1]

Serious knee injuries can occur without you knowing it. You need to have an MRI.

I was playin almost two years ago to the day when I came to a hard stop. I felt a small pop and my knee felt kinda squishy and sounded like a creaky door when I bent it. I didn't feel any pain so I continued to play.

Five minutes go by until I have to perform a hard move and when I race to save a ball my knee dislocates inward toward the other knee. This hurt pretty bad and I called it a day. Swelled up and hurt for a week and started to progress after that. I did some running and lifting and felt fine.

I waited until four weeks after the incident to play again. I am in a defensive stance when I go to move laterally the same thing happens. My knee dislocates just like before. Now I know something is messed up.

I have an MRI done and I have torn the ACL in my left knee. I could run and lift and didn't know it but if I made cutting moves the knee gave.

I waited another four months to have surgery due to insurance reasons. It still is only about 70%. I can play but I think it hurt that I waited so long and didn't treat it right. It also takes alot of time and effort to rehab and it is harder than athletes make it look. A lack of team doctors and trainers along with working a full time job does not allow for their level of dedication.

Whatever you did take it seriously and get it checked out.

[Atrokkus]

I could run and lift and didn't know it but if I made cutting moves the knee gave.
Yeah, that's the most treacherous thing about knee injuries. At the end of the fourth week i was sprinting, boxing, doing all kinds of shit, but once I just did a basic cutting/turning/stopping move in basketball, it twisted.


Concerning MRI: I was actually about to get an MRI right after the initial injury, but then I decided against it in favor of finding a really good doctor who could examine me first, and THEN if something's inconclusive, MRI would have been in order. Getting an MRI before seeing a doctor is NEVER a good idea because of the ultra-sensitivity of the scanner which can lead to false positives.
I'm currently in search of a good local orthopedic specialist.

[the_chosen_1]

Yeah, that's the most treacherous thing about knee injuries. At the end of the fourth week i was sprinting, boxing, doing all kinds of shit, but once I just did a basic cutting/turning/stopping move in basketball, it twisted.


Concerning MRI: I was actually about to get an MRI right after the initial injury, but then I decided against it in favor of finding a really good doctor who could examine me first, and THEN if something's inconclusive, MRI would have been in order. Getting an MRI before seeing a doctor is NEVER a good idea because of the ultra-sensitivity of the scanner which can lead to false positives.
I'm currently in search of a good local orthopedic specialist.


Yes definitely see the doctor before the MRI. I saw an orthopedic doctor first and they will have some idea what you have did. The doctor was 90% sure I tore my ACL, but had to have an MRI to be sure. Sorry for leaving that out. You are on the right path.

God luck.

[ClutchBucketz]

I would suggest an MRI or does an ultrasound work on knee ligaments? I recently sprained my ankle coming down onto some guys foot and heard the pop, got it checked that night and was told it was a bad sprain with no ligament damage.. Swelling didn't go down and bruising increased so i checked with my doc and i was sent for ultrasounds which revealed 3 ruptured ligaments:oldlol:..

Anyway even though knee's are worse than ankle's i don't think i could play happily knowing that my ankle isn't stable having no previous ligament problems so i'd suggest doing the absolute right thing and getting it fixed so you can play on worry free.:cheers:

[Atrokkus]

I would suggest an MRI or does an ultrasound work on knee ligaments?
Both are good at detecting ligament/tendon/cartilage damage. However, MRI is definitely more sensitive and is better suited for confirming your doctor's theories. Still, ultrasound is just fine in most cases, especially considering that a good orthopedist is just as effective as an MRI (both have around 90% "chance" of complete diagnosis). Besides, echo/ultrasound is much cheaper than MRI, and takes no time at all, and often doesn't require any special appointment (usually goes along with your doctor appointment, but it depends on hospital/country).

It's just important to remember that MRI is NOT treatment. It's merely a diagnostic tool (and not even 100% efficient, at that), and the only real treatment option for the knee is arthroscopic or open surgery, pretty much. The other option is just self-regeneration along with rehabilitation -- if it's possible (in certain cases it's not, like with certain meniscus or ACL tears).

[01amberfirewv]

Mine has been bothering me lately, but I think its jumpers knee. I did the jumpmanual over the summer and no my knee kind of aches. Its never sharp and doesn't feel unstable it just aches and is sometimes tight in the evening or when I wake up.

[theydidntnameme]

ye that sounds like jumpers knee. its chronic (happens over time, not something acute like an ankle sprain) and you need to ice it down as much as possible whenever your done with athletic activity). i had it last year. i started doing a lot of springs and whatnot in addition to playing many hours of basketball a day. the increased volume started gave me tendonitis in my left knee. once i figured out it was tendonitis (never had it before) i started icing my knee for 20 minutes every day when i was done practicing and sprinting for the day. after a few weeks my tendonitis was gone. i went all summer training for this school year and although i didnt ice myself anymore, the tendonitis never came back. now that im back at school and more in control of my diet and lifestyle, im back to icing myself after activity is done for the day, just as a precaution...

also id like to note that my tendonitis was in my left knee. im a right handed player, and my left leg is stronger then my right leg as im sure alot of other right handed players are (since you use your left leg more in bball). i figured that it was only logical that since my left leg was used more then my right, that was why i got tendonitis in that knee and not my right. so one thing i did when the tendonitis came was i changed my jumpshot form.. i used to shoot like kobe, tmac, and alot of other players that kick their right leg out and land from their jumpshot with all of their weight on their left leg first. i figured this was a contributing factor to the accelerated wear on my left knee as opposed to my right knee and so i changed my shot to be more like derrick rose's, where he lands with both feet at the same time.. anyways my tendonitis has never come back so i suggest you do these things... land with both feet on your jumpshot and ice yourself consistently.. good luck :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exmGHChrnX0 (look at his jumpshot at the 1 minute mark)

[01amberfirewv]

Thanks for the info. Mine is actually my right knee but I have been using my left hand a lot more and going off of my right foot when doing it. I have been trying to ice it daily and it seems to help but my knee is always pretty stiff afterwards

[Atrokkus]

Hm... this got me thinking:
Barbell clean and jerks (olympic) have been part of my weightlifting routine for more than a year now (my favorite exercise). I wonder if I should remove them completely from my workouts during my rehabilitation. Same goes for heavy squats, I figure... Just not sure when I should be "cleared" for these exercises.

Another question is the knee brace -- which one should I get to minimize the risk of recurring injury?

[01amberfirewv]

Hm... this got me thinking:
Barbell clean and jerks (olympic) have been part of my weightlifting routine for more than a year now (my favorite exercise). I wonder if I should remove them completely from my workouts during my rehabilitation. Same goes for heavy squats, I figure... Just not sure when I should be "cleared" for these exercises.

Another question is the knee brace -- which one should I get to minimize the risk of recurring injury?

I replaced them with single leg body squats yesterday and my knee feels better today than it has in a few weeks.

[the_chosen_1]

Hm... this got me thinking:
Barbell clean and jerks (olympic) have been part of my weightlifting routine for more than a year now (my favorite exercise). I wonder if I should remove them completely from my workouts during my rehabilitation. Same goes for heavy squats, I figure... Just not sure when I should be "cleared" for these exercises.

Another question is the knee brace -- which one should I get to minimize the risk of recurring injury?

Alot of the rehab I have done incorporates balance balls, carioca, and power strides.

[Atrokkus]

When exactly do you start rehab after a knee sprain (or similar knee injury)? 4 days have past since I aggravated the injury (second twist), and although it's definitely easier than after the first injury, I still can't bend my leg all the way and there's some discomfort and feeling of joint instability. I wonder if I can start jogging lightly within a couple of days, and weightlifting (machines mostly) next week perhaps.

Pretty much the biggest nagging symptom is inability to bend my knee all the way through (like, in order to sit on your knees or do a full squat). Feel incredible tightness and some pain.

[the_chosen_1]

When exactly do you start rehab after a knee sprain (or similar knee injury)? 4 days have past since I aggravated the injury (second twist), and although it's definitely easier than after the first injury, I still can't bend my leg all the way and there's some discomfort and feeling of joint instability. I wonder if I can start jogging lightly within a couple of days, and weightlifting (machines mostly) next week perhaps.

Pretty much the biggest nagging symptom is inability to bend my knee all the way through (like, in order to sit on your knees or do a full squat). Feel incredible tightness and some pain.
Nothing wrong with stretches now to ease the tightness. Alot of the work I did was with pain, but safe according to the DR so I think you should know what you are dealing with before working out.

[Swaggin916]

ye that sounds like jumpers knee. its chronic (happens over time, not something acute like an ankle sprain) and you need to ice it down as much as possible whenever your done with athletic activity). i had it last year. i started doing a lot of springs and whatnot in addition to playing many hours of basketball a day. the increased volume started gave me tendonitis in my left knee. once i figured out it was tendonitis (never had it before) i started icing my knee for 20 minutes every day when i was done practicing and sprinting for the day. after a few weeks my tendonitis was gone. i went all summer training for this school year and although i didnt ice myself anymore, the tendonitis never came back. now that im back at school and more in control of my diet and lifestyle, im back to icing myself after activity is done for the day, just as a precaution...

also id like to note that my tendonitis was in my left knee. im a right handed player, and my left leg is stronger then my right leg as im sure alot of other right handed players are (since you use your left leg more in bball). i figured that it was only logical that since my left leg was used more then my right, that was why i got tendonitis in that knee and not my right. so one thing i did when the tendonitis came was i changed my jumpshot form.. i used to shoot like kobe, tmac, and alot of other players that kick their right leg out and land from their jumpshot with all of their weight on their left leg first. i figured this was a contributing factor to the accelerated wear on my left knee as opposed to my right knee and so i changed my shot to be more like derrick rose's, where he lands with both feet at the same time.. anyways my tendonitis has never come back so i suggest you do these things... land with both feet on your jumpshot and ice yourself consistently.. good luck :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exmGHChrnX0 (look at his jumpshot at the 1 minute mark)

Well you are quite fortunate because continuing to play on a knee with tendonitis can lead to a chronic problem... as in my case. I am pretty sure I have fairly severe tendon degeneration... probably something like Kobe where you can play...but you have to have it in a brace and you won't practice because you don't want to play any more than you have too. I wish it was all simple and I could just get the best care from doctors... but it doesn't work that way. Soon I'll be able to go back and see what the problem is... but I mean yea I have just been stretching and doing body weight exercises that don't cause pain and also just juggling a soccerball or shooting hoops lightly to warmup be4 stretching and so far it feels like it's helped.

I still feel like an old man tho with shitty knees... always felt ready to go at any time before no warmups necessary. Now, I need to be really warm and stetched out to even feel ready to play ball and of course my knees suck so it's a constant struggle dealing with the pain... so yea i just forget it and I ain't goin back until it's fixed (or like 2 years go by without much progress... then i will say screw it). Mainly it's just putting aside your desires and doing your body a big favor... it will heal for you if you do.

[Aussie Outcast]

patella tendonopathy is a chronic condition and I would advise extreme caution for anyone who has it. You need to let it completely heal. As in 100% not 90 or 99%. It needs to fully heal or it will be an ongoing issue and can most certainly ruin or end your career.

[Swaggin916]

patella tendonopathy is a chronic condition and I would advise extreme caution for anyone who has it. You need to let it completely heal. As in 100% not 90 or 99%. It needs to fully heal or it will be an ongoing issue and can most certainly ruin or end your career.

Thanks man I will look into that. It's probably what I have. It feels like it's never going to heal on it's own tho... but I just have to be patient.