Scottie Pippen or Clyde Drexler

[ThaSwagg3r]

I saw this comparison on another site. I thought it was a good comparison and a good discussion to talk about.

On the all-time lists, Pippen is ranked higher than Drexler for me. I don't feel strongly about it which is why I am asking here.

[Rnbizzle]

Drexler > Pippen, if you ask me.

Team accomplishments vs individual play basically.

[pauk]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138539

[Rekindled]

the one that led his team to 2 nba finals as no.1 option

[Round Mound]

94 Pippen > Any Drexler

But overall Drexler > Pippen

[L.Kizzle]

This is like the tenth Clyde Drexler thread I've seen in the past week.

Keep it up!

Next up:

Drexler vs. McGrady
Drexler vs. Hal Greer
Drexler vs. Reggie Miller

[rodman91]

Drexler.

[Kevin_Gamble]

In terms of basketball? Pippen.

[L.Kizzle]

In terms of basketball? Pippen.
Are you really Kevin Gamble?

http://www.jandjcards.com/store/images/kevin%20gamble%20sb90.jpg

[PowerGlove]

Drexler has to be most overrated player post retirement ever. Jesus.

Pippen>>>>>>

[bizil]

Gotta be Clyde the Glide! Was a Batman scorer who could carry a team. And was just as good of a passer and rebounder. Pip just had the edge ball handling and defensive wise. If Pippen had the Batman gene, he would have been a top 15-20 player of all time. Cause in terms of all around skills, Pip is the most skilled SF of all time. And Pip had an outstanding resume with six rings, gold medal, several All Star games, several All NBA teams, and several All Defensive teams. His D gives him the edge over Bird for me. But in terms of the better player, Bird is CLEARLY better than Pippen. Clyde's all around game gets slept on for some reason. But give me Drexler over Pip any day of the week. And I don't wanna hear Pip was point forward type player and his role wasn't to be a Batman. You have many point forward types or point guards who turned into Batman and carry the scoring load. Or u have other second or even third option players who were great players and had the Batman gene.

But I concede on a GOAT list, Pip might rank higher than Drexler because of his accolades. But in terms of who is flat out the better player give me Drexler.

[OldSchoolBBall]

If Pippen had the Batman gene, he would have been a top 15-20 player of all time. Cause in terms of all around skills, Pip is the most skilled SF of all time.

Pippen is nowhere near as skilled as Bird.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Pippen is nowhere near as skilled as Bird.

I spit out my crown royal black reading that

[Stuckey]

I spit out my crown royal black reading that

why, he's not

[97 bulls]

I'm rolling with pippen. Drexer was a great player, but pippen was better.

[97 bulls]

Pippen is nowhere near as skilled as Bird.
Bird was more skilled offensivly. Pippen was a much more versitle basketball player.

[Bring-Your-Js]

why, he's not

Reading "pippen is the most skilled sf of all time"

[guy]

Drexler has to be most overrated player post retirement ever. Jesus.

Pippen>>>>>>

Actually that label easily belongs to Pippen. At least from that era.

[Bigsmoke]

Pippen

[Bigsmoke]

Bird was more skilled offensivly. Pippen was a much more versitle basketball player.

umm... Bird >>> Pippen > Drexler

[bizil]

Pippen is nowhere near as skilled as Bird.

Let me explain first that Bird is the better player clearly. But skill for skill, I feel Pip is the best SF ever. The defensive aspects and ball handling go to Pippen. Slashing to the hole goes to Pippen. Pip wasn't a Batman, but was a great 2nd option and could get 21-23 points. Pound for pound, Pip was an above average rebounder at SF. Passing wise I will say Bird, but not by much at all. And Bird is the better shooter. Rebounding will go to Bird, but Bird was bigger and played a lot of PF. But it's not a stretch at all to say skill for skill Pip is better then Bird. Or vice versa. But most skilled doesn't always mean the better player. Cause Vlade Divac is more skilled than Shaq. But Shaq is obviously the better player.

[caliman]

Pip

[Bigsmoke]

Let me explain first that Bird is the better player clearly. But skill for skill, I feel Pip is the best SF ever. The defensive aspects and ball handling go to Pippen. Slashing to the hole goes to Pippen. Pip wasn't a Batman, but was a great 2nd option and could get 21-23 points. Pound for pound, Pip was an above average rebounder at SF. Passing wise I will say Bird, but not by much at all. And Bird is the better shooter. Rebounding will go to Bird, but Bird was bigger and played a lot of PF. But it's not a stretch at all to say skill for skill Pip is better then Bird. Or vice versa. But most skilled doesn't always mean the better player. Cause Vlade Divac is more skilled than Shaq. But Shaq is obviously the better player.

so shooting, passing, scoring, efficiency, and rebounding are skills?

If Pippen was more skilled then he would be better.. simple as that. Its not like Bird was more athletic.

[bizil]

Bird was more skilled offensivly. Pippen was a much more versitle basketball player.

Exactly what I was saying! Bird was more skilled offensively. But among SF's Pip is arguably the greatest ball handler and defender ever. He's right up there for passing and he's been known to get 8 boards in a season. Pip was a very good offensive player and an EPIC defender. And Pip was freak athlete in his prime. Once again I feel Bird was the better player and insanely skilled himself. But guys like Pip, Lebron, and Havlicek can do things on defense Bird can't touch. All three had point forward qualities as does Bird. Pip was a very good offensive player AND an EPIC Defender. Bird was an EPIC offensive player and AVERAGE man to man defender. Bird and Magic were very good team defenders. Pip was an awesome defender in every way. But once again, Bird is clearly the better player than Pip.

[bizil]

so shooting, passing, scoring, efficiency, and rebounding are skills?

If Pippen was more skilled then he would be better.. simple as that. Its not like Bird was more athletic.

That's not true at all. When I'm talking skills I'm talking more in terms of versatility. In other words how many things can you do very well to great. There are very few great defensive players at the SF who are ALSO very good to great offensive players scoring wise, have point forward or point guard skills, and are very good to above average rebounders for their position. The only ones I can think of are:

Bron
Pippen
Havlicek
Prime Grant Hill


That's very select company. Most great defenders at the SG or SF aren't as skilled in other areas as as these guys. What makes Bird the best SF of all time is being a true Batman, an all time great shooter, clutch, excellent passing, and excellent rebounding. What made Pip great was being an excellent rebounder pound for pound, excellent passer, excellent defender, excellent ball handler and very good scorer. If Pip was as good as scoring and clutch as Bird, I feel Pip would be better than Bird. Perimeter wise, A great offensive player and great defender all in one is usually better than a great offensive player and average man on man defender. That's the lesson MJ taught Bird and Magic when he eclipsed them back in the day.

[97 bulls]

That's not true at all. When I'm talking skills I'm talking more in terms of versatility. In other words how many things can you do very well to great. There are very few great defensive players at the SF who are ALSO very good to great offensive players scoring wise, have point forward or point guard skills, and are very good to above average rebounders for their position. The only ones I can think of are:

Bron
Pippen
Havlicek
Prime Grant Hill


That's very select company. Most great defenders at the SG or SF aren't as skilled in other areas as as these guys. What makes Bird the best SF of all time is being a true Batman, an all time great shooter, clutch, excellent passing, and excellent rebounding. What made Pip great was being an excellent rebounder pound for pound, excellent passer, excellent defender, excellent ball handler and very good scorer. If Pip was as good as scoring and clutch as Bird, I feel Pip would be better than Bird. Perimeter wise, A great offensive player and great defender all in one is usually better than a great offensive player and average man on man defender. That's the lesson MJ taught Bird and Magic when he eclipsed them back in the day.
They understnd what your trying to explain biz. They just don't want to acknowledge it. The best example you used was the shaq/divac example. That apparently went right over their head.

[NugzHeat3]

I don't consider defense a skill. It's more about effort and intelligence. Of course, if you have other characteristics such as length, lateral quicks ect ect on top of those two things, it's gonna help even more.

guy, Pippen is not as overrated as Drexler was in the 90s.

He may get overrated right now but during the 90s, safe to say, Drexler was more overrated of the two.

Even the coaches picked him as the most overrated player sometime during the 90s.

[bizil]

I don't consider defense a skill. It's more about effort and intelligence. Of course, if you have other characteristics such as length, lateral quicks ect ect on top of those two things, it's gonna help even more.

guy, Pippen is not as overrated as Drexler was in the 90s.

He may get overrated right now but during the 90s, safe to say, Drexler was more overrated of the two.

Even the coaches picked him as the most overrated player sometime during the 90s.

Defense is indeed a skill. Why do u work on it in practice? Why do they keep stats for steals and blocks? Guys like Bruce Bowen and Michael Cooper were highly skilled at defense. Scoring can also be about effort and intelligence. My only complaint about Pip is that he didn't put enough EFFORT into scoring that time MJ was playing baseball. That team needed a bit more scoring to go farther in the playoffs. He still had an MVP caliber season though and was awesome. But if Pip put more EFFORT into scoring, he would be a top 15-20 player of all time point blank. Scoring also takes intelligence. Guys like JR Smith could always be in the top 10 n the L in scoring if he was more INTELLIGENT in his shot selection.

[Smoke117]

Pippen. Drexler was a better scorer but I don't really think by that much. His efficiency was never really grandiose or anything...he just took more shots. Either way better scorer or not, Pippen was a vastly superior defensive player, a game changer. Drexler was good himself but he wasn't a game changer. Both good all around players but I have to give that to Pippen because of his pg instincts. When the Bulls and Blazers met in 92 I've always thought that the Bulls had the two best players on their team: Jordan and Pippen. The whole series was built around the Jordan/Drexler match up, but Drexler wasn't even the 2nd best player on the court.

[eliteballer]

You guys are really underrating what being the second option to Jordan does for Pippen and his game.

[Smoke117]

You guys are really underrating what being the second option to Jordan does for Pippen and his game.

Not really. He was arguably at his best the two seasons Jordan wasn't there, especially defensively.

[eliteballer]

All Pippen showed was that he didnt have the scoring to match Drexler. Drexler had similar all-around skills but was a much better scorer and scoring is the biggest part of the game.

Drexler led his teams to two NBA Finals as the number 1 option. Pippen lost in the semifinals after pouting about how he couldnt take the last shot.

[Smoke117]

Tell that to all the mediocre defensive teams that have won championships...you won't find very many. Stopping the opposing team from scoring is just as important as scoring and no perimeter player ever did that better then Scottie Pippen.

[eliteballer]

Where did the 94 and 95 Bulls rank defensively...do tell. It's easy to do the little things and be the utility man when you dont have to carry the scoring offense.

[NugzHeat3]

All Pippen showed was that he didnt have the scoring to match Drexler. Drexler had similar all-around skills but was a much better scorer and scoring is the biggest part of the game.

Drexler led his teams to two NBA Finals as the number 1 option. Pippen lost in the semifinals after pouting about how he couldnt take the last shot.
Drexler did not have similar all around skills. He's better at scoring, that's about it.

Drexler did lead his teams to two finals but he had way better teams. Hell, there were playoff series like the 1992 WCF where Drexler wasn't even the best player on his team.

Terry Porter was way better than anyone on the 1994 Bulls. He dominated Stockton in that series I mentioned. He got them by the Spurs in game 7 in 1990 when he had 36 points and 9 assists. A little help from Rod Strickland's silly turnover too but that's beside the point.

Seriously, look at the playoff numbers for the 1990 Blazers. Drexler doesn't really standout. That team had incredible talent and depth.

Pippen pouting about the last shot shows what exactly? Drexler certainly wasn't some uber-clutch shot maker. That was always one of his weaknesses. He's the biggest reason we didn't see Rockets-Bulls in 1997 when he messed up on the Rockets last play in game 6 by shooting too early.

If you want to question Pippen's leadership based on that play, then let me tell you Drexler was the reason the Blazers fired Mike Schuler and that gave Drexler the rep of a selfish and overrated player. Never mind the fact that Drexler was indeed voted the most overrated player by coaches a few years later in 1994.

[NugzHeat3]

Where did the 94 and 95 Bulls rank defensively...do tell. It's easy to do the little things and be the utility man when you dont have to carry the scoring offense.
6th and 2nd.

It was all Jordan though.

[L.Kizzle]

Drexler did not have similar all around skills. He's better at scoring, that's about it.

Drexler did lead his teams to two finals but he had way better teams. Hell, there were playoff series like the 1992 WCF where Drexler wasn't even the best player on his team.

Terry Porter was way better than anyone on the 1994 Bulls. He dominated Stockton in that series I mentioned. He got them by the Spurs in game 7 in 1990 when he had 36 points and 9 assists. A little help from Rod Strickland's silly turnover too but that's beside the point.

Seriously, look at the playoff numbers for the 1990 Blazers. Drexler doesn't really standout. That team had incredible talent and depth.

Pippen pouting about the last shot shows what exactly? Drexler certainly wasn't some uber-clutch shot maker. That was always one of his weaknesses. He's the biggest reason we didn't see Rockets-Bulls in 1997 when he messed up on the Rockets last play in game 6 by shooting too early.

If you want to question Pippen's leadership based on that play, then let me tell you Drexler was the reason the Blazers fired Mike Schuler and that gave Drexler the rep of a selfish and overrated player. Never mind the fact that Drexler was indeed voted the most overrated player by coaches a few years later in 1994.
Porter was good, but you're underrating Drexler. What happened when Clyde went down/got older the next two season in Portland? Two straight first round exist. They still had Porter though ...

Porter was like Dumars, great in the back court with Zeke, but when Zeke went down/got older, Piston had some terrible records in 93 and 94

[NugzHeat3]

Porter was good, but you're underrating Drexler. What happened when Clyde went down/got older the next two season in Portland? Two straight first round exist. They still had Porter though ...

Porter was like Dumars, great in the back court with Zeke, but when Zeke went down/got older, Piston had some terrible records in 93 and 94

I don't think I'm underrating Drexler. In 1993, the Blazers were 30-19 with him. 21-12 without him. That's a higher winning % w/o than with him. :oldlol: :oldlol:

In 1994, they again didn't suffer a drop-off when Drexler went down. Their winning % was roughly the same.

The reason they had two straight first round exits go beyond Drexler's decline.

They signed Strickland as a FA which broke apart their perfect 3 man rotation of Ainge, Drex and Porter (Ainge signed with Phoenix later on).

Duckworth was showing up out of shape and they had to trade him. They had also made deep runs for three years which takes a toll.

[bizil]

For those who say Drexler wasn't close to Pippen in the all around game sense don't know what they are talking about. Drexler has put up 8 assist and 8 rebound seasons before. He averages 5.6 assists and 6.1 rebounds for his career. Pip averaged 5.2 assists and 6.4 rebounds. The difference is Pip was a better defender, hell arguably the best perimeter defender ever. But Clyde was a very good defender himself. So if u feel Pip was better all around than cool. But it's not by that large of a margin. Drexler dribbled with his head down and had an awkward looking jumper. Pip on a technical level mixed fundamentals and great athletic ability better than Clyde. Meaning Pip looked smooth and textbook whild Clyde looked sometimes awkward in some facets. I feel people might hold shit like that against Clyde and think he was just all athlete who dunked his way to big scoring nights. Pip on a technical level was awesome. But he was a complete player, one of the greatest all around SG's of all time.

[Smoke117]

Porter was good, but you're underrating Drexler. What happened when Clyde went down/got older the next two season in Portland? Two straight first round exist. They still had Porter though ...

Porter was like Dumars, great in the back court with Zeke, but when Zeke went down/got older, Piston had some terrible records in 93 and 94

That's the dumbest argument I've ever heard. Nobody is denying that Drexler was a very good player...BUT YES the Blazers teams that made the finals did have some of the most talented teams of all time, BUT obviously when your BEST PLAYER is hurt or starts to decline your team is going to suffer. You could say a team would suffer without their best player for practically ANY team. This a 5 on 5 game after all...losing one really good player is obviously going to hurt your team. In the end Pippen just had an impact more then Drexler. Shit, you take Pippen off the 1994 team and they probably lose 20 or so more games if the 4-6 record they had when he was hurt that season is any indication. Drexler only played 49 games in the regular season in the 93 season and the Blazers STILL won 51 games...

Honestly, Drexler really should have had a better career then he did. He is notorious for being lazy and getting by on his natural gifts. That he didn't utilize his gifts the way he should have is his own problem. He could have been a lot better then he is if he had any work ethic.

[NugzHeat3]

For those who say Drexler wasn't close to Pippen in the all around game sense don't know what they are talking about. Drexler has put up 8 assist and 8 rebound seasons before. He averages 5.6 assists and 6.1 rebounds for his career. Pip averaged 5.2 assists and 6.4 rebounds. The difference is Pip was a better defender, hell arguably the best perimeter defender ever. But Clyde was a very good defender himself. So if u feel Pip was better all around than cool. But it's not by that large of a margin. Drexler dribbled with his head down and had an awkward looking jumper. Pip on a technical level mixed fundamentals and great athletic ability better than Clyde. Meaning Pip looked smooth and textbook whild Clyde looked sometimes awkward in some facets. I feel people might hold shit like that against Clyde and think he was just all athlete who dunked his way to big scoring nights. Pip on a technical level was awesome. But he was a complete player, one of the greatest all around SG's of all time.
True. I probably got carried away.

[bagelred]

If it wasn't for Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan would have been a Blazer.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Drexler did not have similar all around skills. He's better at scoring, that's about it.

Drexler was a better passer (clearly) and a comparable rebounder along with being the better scorer.

[AlphaWolf24]

Similar players But Pippen had a Higher basketball "IQ" and a greater "will to win"

Pippen a top 5 player of the 90's and greater winner/player then Glyde.


yup....Pippen

[DuMa]

Drexler was a better player. Hes been underrated all his career because hes always played in the shadow of Jordan. the media didnt care about the 2nd best SG in the game.

[Bigsmoke]

Tell that to all the mediocre defensive teams that have won championships...you won't find very many. Stopping the opposing team from scoring is just as important as scoring and no perimeter player ever did that better then Scottie Pippen.

95 Rockets

[Smoke117]

95 Rockets

Yeah they only had the greatest defensive player of the modern era...that kind of helps fill in for other players deficiencies. Dream is easily the best anchor there has ever been defensively 1970+.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Yeah they only had the greatest defensive player of the modern era...that kind of helps fill in for other players deficiencies. Dream is easily the best anchor there has ever been defensively 1970+.

What about Mark Eaton? Dikembe? Hakeem is one of the top 5 players 1970+, but I would not count him "easily" the best anchor. Scottie, though, is easily the best perimeter defensive player.

[guy]

I don't consider defense a skill. It's more about effort and intelligence. Of course, if you have other characteristics such as length, lateral quicks ect ect on top of those two things, it's gonna help even more.

guy, Pippen is not as overrated as Drexler was in the 90s.

He may get overrated right now but during the 90s, safe to say, Drexler was more overrated of the two.

Even the coaches picked him as the most overrated player sometime during the 90s.

The person I was responding to said "post-retirement". During the 90s, you can argue Pippen was underrated. But I'm not talking about that. Post-retirement, its no doubt Pippen, at least when it comes to players from that era. Drexler is almost forgotten and rarely ever even talked about today.

[FatComputerNerd]

Drexler was a better passer (clearly) and a comparable rebounder along with being the better scorer.

Not so sure about this. I know Drexler got some good assist numbers, but Pippen was actually known as a point forward, wasn't he?

Drexler was obviously the superior scorer, and a more legit #1 option, but I'm going with Pippen on a contending team...unless I don't already have that go to #1 scorer.

Don't get me wrong. I grew up in the 80's, watching b-ball. I know how great Drexler was. Pippen gets severely overlooked and underrated though, from having played next to MJ so many years.

[97 bulls]

Drexler was a better passer (clearly) and a comparable rebounder along with being the better scorer.
Lol clearly? The man dribbled with his head down. And pippen ran the bulls offense.

[guy]

Not so sure about this. I know Drexler got some good assist numbers, but Pippen was actually known as a point forward, wasn't he?


What does him being a point forward have to do with anything? Just because he brought the ball up court and was the main facilitator for a team that didn't really rely on a traditional PG, it doesn't mean he was a better passer then those that weren't. People act like he was actually as good as an all-star when it comes to the aspects of a traditional PG, like he was Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo. When I said Pippen was overrated, its not really his skillset thats overrated, but his impact. But passing is one skillset that he has been overrated on here. I see people saying he's close to or better at passing then guys like Bird, Jordan, and Lebron. He's not even close and its a joke to consider him better. I wouldn't put him above Drexler either, but at least there's an argument.

[Bring-Your-Js]

What about Mark Eaton? Dikembe? Hakeem is one of the top 5 players 1970+, but I would not count him "easily" the best anchor. Scottie, though, is easily the best perimeter defensive player.

What's absolutely amazing about bringing up Mark Eaton and Dikembe Mutombo is, Hakeem is arguably bettter than them defensively. Ok, and what type of effort did Eaton/Mutombo have to put in on offense compared to Hakeem? Imagine Olajuwon isn't responsible for carrying the offensive load. OTOH, imagine if he got to focus solely on Scoring like Amare, able to completely neglect his defensive and rebounding duties? Dudes already one of the greatest scorers in history, especially when the games matter. He neglected nothing and dominated everything.

:bowdown:

[97 bulls]

What does him being a point forward have to do with anything? Just because he brought the ball up court and was the main facilitator for a team that didn't really rely on a traditional PG, it doesn't mean he was a better passer then those that weren't. People act like he was actually as good as an all-star when it comes to the aspects of a traditional PG, like he was Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo. When I said Pippen was overrated, its not really his skillset thats overrated, but his impact. But passing is one skillset that he has been overrated on here. I see people saying he's close to or better at passing then guys like Bird, Jordan, and Lebron. He's not even close and its a joke to consider him better. I wouldn't put him above Drexler either, but at least there's an argument.
Here comes the revisionist history again. When are we gonna realize that there's more ways to impact a game than just scoring? And yes pippen is just as good a passer as jorda, james, and bird.

[guy]

Here comes the revisionist history again. When are we gonna realize that there's more ways to impact a game than just scoring? And yes pippen is just as good a passer as jorda, james, and bird.

Where in the hell did I mention anything about scoring in my post? What does that have to do with anything I said? And no, he's not as good of a passer. Don't get me wrong, he is a great passer, but not as good as arguably the 3 greatest non-PG passers of all-time. He didn't have the court vision nor the ability to make the difficult passes those guys have done regularly. Just because he played more of a "point" role then certain players, that doesn't mean he was as great of a passer as them.

[97 bulls]

Where in the hell did I mention anything about scoring in my post? What does that have to do with anything I said? And no, he's not as good of a passer. Don't get me wrong, he is a great passer, but not as good as arguably the 3 greatest non-PG passers of all-time. He didn't have the court vision nor the ability to make the difficult passes those guys have done regularly. Just because he played more of a "point" role then certain players, that doesn't mean he was as great of a passer as them.
Well what was wrong with his impact then? He took over games indifferent ways. Be it defense, scoring, filling a stat sheet in general. And making flashy passes doesn't constitute being a great passer.

[OldSchoolBBall]

And yes pippen is just as good a passer as jorda, james, and bird.

:oldlol:

[nbacardDOTnet]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Chicago%20Bulls/Scottie%20Pippen/VS/89bcfc49.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Chicago%20Bulls/Scottie%20Pippen/VS/9f1998c6.gif

[Roundball_Rock]

Only in bizarro ISH world would losing twice in the finals "as the man">>>>winning 6 rings as a "sidekick", including once losing in the NBA finals when the "sidekick" performed better (21/8/8 with elite defense while running the offense) than said "the man." To make that logic even more ironic the "sidekick" led 4 bench players to erase a 15 point 4th quarter deficit against "the man" on "the man's" home court in Game 6 to win the championship. Yet because he carried the label of "the man" his NBA finals record>>>Pippen's. :roll: :wtf: Also only in an internet basketball forum would losing twice in the NBA finals be touted as Drexler's chief achievement, not the ring he actually won as a "sidekick" in 95'. NBA message boards: where losing trumps winning!

Drexler was all-NBA first team only once and never made an all-defensive team. Pippen actually was #1 in both all-NBA and all-defensive voting in 1994. Drexler did have a higher scoring average than Pippen but that is basically all he has over Pip.

guy, how much does Nike pay you to diminish Pippen in every Pippen thread? :oldlol:

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ people who don't think Drexler was at least as good a passer as Pippen, and most likely better. Go watch some games of his.

[Samurai Swoosh]

I still lol @ Drexler dribbling w/ his head down.

:facepalm

[97 bulls]

lol @ people who don't think Drexler was at least as good a passer as Pippen, and most likely better. Go watch some games of his.
Considering your view on pippen, your opinion doesn't hold much weight. When it comes to pippen, you only post your views against pippen. Its never objective.

[L.Kizzle]

I still lol @ Drexler dribbling w/ his head down.

:facepalm
He didn't get picked a lot because of it ... That's like people laughing at Rick Barry's free throw form.

[Samurai Swoosh]

He didn't get picked a lot because of it ...
I don't know many people in the NBA who get their dribble picked off, period.

It just looks incredibly stupid that an NBA player would be dribbling like how my mother does.

:oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

I don't know many people in the NBA who get their dribble picked off, period.

It just looks incredibly stupid that an NBA player would be dribbling like how my mother does.

:oldlol:
But doesn't it look stupid seeing Rick Barry shooting these "granny" shots? If it didn't hurt his career, it should make a difference how he does it.

[Samurai Swoosh]

But doesn't it look stupid seeing Rick Barry shooting these "granny" shots?
Absolutely, but he has an excuse for being from an era that is closer to the birth of the game where they shot like that.

What's Drexler's excuse?

:oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

Absolutely, but he has an excuse for being from an era that is closer to the birth of the game where they shot like that.

What's Drexler's excuse?

:oldlol:
No excuses, Barry grew up watching the likes of Jerry West, Oscar Robertson shot, with perfect forms.

Drexler was drafted the year after Barry retired. There weren't many wizards ball handlers for Clyde to look up too (Pistol, Earl Monroe, Tiny were the few.)

[OldSchoolBBall]

Considering your view on pippen, your opinion doesn't hold much weight. When it comes to pippen, you only post your views against pippen. Its never objective.

Drexler was a better passer, period. He had higher peak apg numbers, more seasons of > 6 apg, and comparable career averages. And he did this without having the most dominant scorer in history to pass it to for easy assists, and without working in a pre-set offense that he could just make good reads out of for easier assists. I've seen Drexler make passes Pippen could never dream of making.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Pippen is by far the most overrated player on this forum.

Lol @ Chubb Rock

[millwad]

The guy who lead his team to the finals or the guy who always was the Robin of his team..

I'd take Drexler, I think Pippen may be one of the most overrated players on this site or some of you just didn't see Drexler play. And haha, alot of posters picking on Drexler and how he dribbled and that he had no handles yadi yadi, that's funny considering the fact that he averaged less turnovers than Pippen..

And not only did he average less turnovers, he averaged more assists per game. In fact, Drexler was a great passer.

[97 bulls]

Drexler was a better passer, period. He had higher peak apg numbers, more seasons of > 6 apg, and comparable career averages. And he did this without having the most dominant scorer in history to pass it to for easy assists, and without working in a pre-set offense that he could just make good reads out of for easier assists. I've seen Drexler make passes Pippen could never dream of making.
Lol don't you have some jordan stats to jack off to? I'm not saying drexler was a bad passer. But as usual, you clearly show you don't undertand a damn thing about basketball pasts stats. And you sure as hell don't understand the concept of the triangle. Its an equal opportunity offense. Pippen didn't play in an offense where he could dominate the baall like drexler did. Do you ever take into considerstion the fact that a lot of drexlers career was spent in the high octane 80s? You yourself admitted pippens numbers would've been higher if he played in the 80s. You don't think if he played in a fastbreak offense, he would've avg aroun 8-9 assists?

[97 bulls]

The guy who lead his team to the finals or the guy who always was the Robin of his team..

I'd take Drexler, I think Pippen may be one of the most overrated players on this site or some of you just didn't see Drexler play. And haha, alot of posters picking on Drexler and how he dribbled and that he had no handles yadi yadi, that's funny considering the fact that he averaged less turnovers than Pippen..

And not only did he average less turnovers, he averaged more assists per game. In fact, Drexler was a great passer.
Wow, 2.7 to 2.8. Big difference. And pippen would've certainly avg more assists if he played his prime years in the 80s. More TOs too. But the whole who's a better passer thing wouldn't even be discussed.

And drexler dribling is being talked about cuz if you've ever played basketball, from an early age one of the first things your taught is to dribble with your head up. Drecler got a lot of assists but I wonder how many open players did he miss cuz he wasn't looking up?

[millwad]

Lol don't you have some jordan stats to jack off to? I'm not saying drexler was a bad passer. But as usual, you clearly show you don't undertand a damn thing about basketball pasts stats. And you sure as hell don't understand the concept of the triangle. Its an equal opportunity offense. Pippen didn't play in an offense where he could dominate the baall like drexler did. Do you ever take into considerstion the fact that a lot of drexlers career was spent in the high octane 80s? You yourself admitted pippens numbers would've been higher if he played in the 80s. You don't think if he played in a fastbreak offense, he would've avg aroun 8-9 assists?

Of course you're not saying that drexler was a bad passer, that would only make Pippen a worse passer since Drexler was a better passer than him.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Pippen is by far the most overrated player on this forum.

Lol @ Chubb Rock
:applause:

[millwad]

Wow, 2.7 to 2.8. Big difference. And pippen would've certainly avg more assists if he played his prime years in the 80s. More TOs too. But the whole who's a better passer thing wouldn't even be discussed.

And drexler dribling is being talked about cuz if you've ever played basketball, from an early age one of the first things your taught is to dribble with your head up. Drecler got a lot of assists but I wonder how many open players did he miss cuz he wasn't looking up?

The difference is a good point since Drexler had the ball in his hands more than Pippen had during his career and he averaged more assists per game and less turn overs.

[97 bulls]

Of course you're not saying that drexler was a bad passer, that would only make Pippen a worse passer since Drexler was a better passer than him.
If pippen played a large portion of his years in the 80s, his stats accross the board would be higher do you deny this?

[millwad]

If pippen played a large portion of his years in the 80s, his stats accross the board would be higher do you deny this?

And so would his TO's and even though Drexler played some years in the 80's he still managed to take care of the ball better than Pippen who enjoyed his prime in the 90's.

[KingBeasley08]

97 bulls gettin his ass handed to him

[97 bulls]

And so would his TO's and even though Drexler played some years in the 80's he still managed to take care of the ball better than Pippen who enjoyed his prime in the 90's.
Dude, drexlers career per game TO avg is 2.7. Pippens is 2.8. Hardly much worse. Now if pippen played a lot of his prime in the 80s his TOs probably go up to 3.1. Which still isn't much higher than drexlers. Rounded off, they both are around 3 per game

[millwad]

Dude, drexlers career per game TO avg is 2.7. Pippens is 2.8. Hardly much worse. Now if pippen played a lot of his prime in the 80s his TOs probably go up to 3.1. Which still isn't much higher than drexlers. Rounded off, they both are around 3 per game

You obviously didn't get my point, you're playing the both sides. First you say that Pippen would average more assists in the 80's but obviously he would average more TO's as well, even when he enjoyed his prime in the 90's he averaged more TO's than Drexler.

I don't even really see the point of discussing this with you since in my eyes, I believe that Drexler was a better player and a better passer. And in all honesty, discussing "Pippen vs Drexler" with a guy with the nickname "97 Bulls" is just as giving as discussing Wilt vs someone else with Jlauber.

[97 bulls]

You obviously didn't get my point, you're playing the both sides. First you say that Pippen would average more assists in the 80's but obviously he would average more TO's as well, even when he enjoyed his prime in the 90's he averaged more TO's than Drexler.

I don't even really see the point of discussing this with you since in my eyes, I believe that Drexler was a better player and a better passer. And in all honesty, discussing "Pippen vs Drexler" with a guy with the nickname "97 Bulls" is just as giving as discussing Wilt vs someone else with Jlauber.
I acknowledged his TOs would increase. But how much? Not enough to say that they didn't turn the ball over at a similar rate.

And this is a basektball site. Everybody that has an opinion is biased to a certain degree. I unlike you take everything into consideration when discussing players. Including the era they played in. You obviously just look at stats.

The fact that you decided to enter and then post in this thread shows that you have a horse in this race. Cuz you sure as hell don't post in every thread.

[millwad]

I acknowledged his TOs would increase. But how much? Not enough to say that they didn't turn the ball over at a similar rate.

And this is a basektball site. Everybody that has an opinion is biased to a certain degree. I unlike you take everything into consideration when discussing players. Including the era they played in. You obviously just look at stats.

The fact that you decided to enter and then post in this thread shows that you have a horse in this race. Cuz you sure as hell don't post in every thread.

In fact, I don't look at stats more than anyone else but sometimes you're able to prove a point through stats and you know it.
And come on, "the era they played in"? Your acting like we're comparing Wilt Chamberlain to Shaq.. Drexler is only 3 years older than Pippen and the Drexler who entered the league in '84 was not close to his prime. It was first in '88 I'd consider that his prime started.

And what? The reason why I took part in this thread was because I felt people were underrating Drexler and overrating Pippen. What has that do with "having a horse in this race"? Get real, stop the crap. Huge surprise that "97 Bulls" is all over Pippen in this thread..

[97 bulls]

In fact, I don't look at stats more than anyone else but sometimes you're able to prove a point through stats and you know it.
And come on, "the era they played in"? Your acting like we're comparing Wilt Chamberlain to Shaq.. Drexler is only 3 years older than Pippen and the Drexler who entered the league in '84 was not close to his prime. It was first in '88 I'd consider that his prime started.

And what? The reason why I took part in this thread was because I felt people were underrating Drexler and overrating Pippen. What has that do with "having a horse in this race"? Get real, stop the crap. Huge surprise that "97 Bulls" is all over Pippen in this thread..
Drexler played a legit 5 (not counting 84) years of his career in the high paced 80s. His biggest assists numbers came before what you'd call his prime. Pippen started to take off in 89. But most of his work did happen smack dab in the 90s. That's about 5 seasons. That's a huge gap when were talking about stats. And what's even more, if I remember correct, the league on avg took damn near 600-700 more shots per team in your typical 80s season compared to the typical 90s teams. Especially from 94 to 98. That's a lot of extra assists.

And the league avg for fg% was roughy 3 to 4 points higher in the 80s than 90s. The last time I checked, I think the difference was about 48 to 44 roughly. That's. A farrrrr cry from the miniscule tenths that your trying to point out when refering to pippen and drexlers TO rate. Factor in that the bulls didn't play in a run and gun system the way the trailblazers did. Which as we all know, run and gun offenses drastically inflate stats.

And I know some people on here want to say pippen passed to jordan, but even that's not totally true. Cuz jordan played a lot of iso.

[Da_Realist]

lol @ people implying the 80's were a glorified jv league because they looked up some team's ppg numbers. Pippen and Drexler both played in the 80's and 90's. Only on ISH is an era defined to be every four or five years. :rolleyes:

Does a game played in December '89 count the same as a game played in January '90?

[97 bulls]

lol @ people implying the 80's were a glorified jv league because they looked up some team's ppg numbers. Pippen and Drexler both played in the 80's and 90's. Only on ISH is an era defined to be every four or five years. :rolleyes:

Does a game played in December '89 count the same as a game played in January '90?
Who said the 80s was a JV league? Its a fact that the 80s stats are higher due to the style the teams played in. If you don't believe me go check the difference in FG attempts and percentage.

I see now why celebrities really try to watch what they say. The way words get twisted in this forum is amazing

[eliteballer]

Drexler averaged 6.7 assists in 1992, more than every year of Pippens career but one, and that was with a ballhandling heavy PG. VS Pippen who was the primary offensive initiator on his teams.

[97 bulls]

Drexler averaged 6.7 assists in 1992, more than every year of Pippens career but one, and that was with a ballhandling heavy PG. VS Pippen who was the primary offensive initiator on his teams.
Great, now can you look at this objectively? The blazers ran a fastbreak style offense. That doesn't help his statistics?

And here's both pippen and drexlers assists numbers from 90 to 94.
Pippen
6.2
7.0
6.3
5.6
5.2

Drexler
5.9
6.0
6.7
5.7
4.9

As was said earlier, they're roughly the same age, so I think this is fair. What's more is that pippen was just starting his prime while drexler was firmly entrenched in his. Pippen has a slight advantage. Which really would be a little higher if they both played in a similar style offense.

[Duncan21formvp]

94 Pippen > Any Drexler

But overall Drexler > Pippen
92 Drexler was better. He finished 2nd in MVP voting even with MJ in the league and the same guys in 1992 were in the league in 1994.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

http://images.wikia.com/southpark/images/a/a6/Clyde....jpg

[guy]

Well what was wrong with his impact then? He took over games indifferent ways. Be it defense, scoring, filling a stat sheet in general. And making flashy passes doesn't constitute being a great passer.

I said he's overrated. Not that he didn't have any impact.

[guy]

guy, how much does Nike pay you to diminish Pippen in every Pippen thread? :oldlol:

Funny thing is you actually think Nike/ESPN/NBA have a specific agenda to prop up Jordan at any cost even if it means diminishing someone else. I don't have an agenda like you're implying. I'm regularly in threads about everyone from Rose to Dirk to Shaq to Jordan to etc. On the other hand, I haven't seen you in months, but you show up out of the blue to talk about the same topic. If anyone has an agenda, its not me.

[97 bulls]

I said he's overrated. Not that he didn't have any impact.
You say his impact is overrated. I don't see it. Its guys like you that try to minimalize pippens contributions that underrate him. I rarely see guy call him a top 10-15 player. But I routinely see people like you attempt to diminish his contributions to 6 championships.

And here in lies the problem. Like in this drexler/pippen thread. You won't respond to the clear fact that pippen is a better defender than drexler (not that drexler was a bad defender mind you). But you will respond to posts in which people try to say pippen wasn't as good of a passer as drexler. Or even jordan, james, and bird. Obviously these people are going by assists stats.

But where's the objectivity? Why not consider the roles the players in question played. Why not consider the stats relative to the time the players played in?

[guy]

You say his impact is overrated. I don't see it. Its guys like you that try to minimalize pippens contributions that underrate him. I rarely see guy call him a top 10-15 player. But I routinely see people like you attempt to diminish his contributions to 6 championships.

And here in lies the problem. Like in this drexler/pippen thread. You won't respond to the clear fact that pippen is a better defender than drexler (not that drexler was a bad defender mind you). But you will respond to posts in which people try to say pippen wasn't as good of a passer as drexler. Or even jordan, james, and bird. Obviously these people are going by assists stats.

But where's the objectivity? Why not consider the roles the players in question played. Why not consider the stats relative to the time the players played in?

Where has anyone said Drexler was a better defender? No need for me to say Pippen was a better defender when no one has argued otherwise.

[Sarcastic]

lol @ people implying the 80's were a glorified jv league because they looked up some team's ppg numbers. Pippen and Drexler both played in the 80's and 90's. Only on ISH is an era defined to be every four or five years. :rolleyes:

Does a game played in December '89 count the same as a game played in January '90?


:lol

So true.

[97 bulls]

Where has anyone said Drexler was a better defender? No need for me to say Pippen was a better defender when no one has argued otherwise.
Maybe your comprehension is bad. I never said anyone said drexler was the better defender. But bizil did imply that they were close when he said he'd give the "edge" to pippen. I don't know about you, but when someone uses the term edge, I think they're implying close.

I just don't see you defending pippen with the same vigor that I see you defame him.

Like earlier, when a guy said he'd give the nod to drexler cuz he lead the blazers to 2 championship appearances and pippen could at best muster a second round exit. Are you really gonna tell me that's. A fair assesment of that argument? Cuz as a fellow jordan fan, I seen you jump on someone that tries to knock jordan by saying he didn't win in the 80s. Cuz I agree that the teams jordan had just weren't competitive enough. As a bulls fan, why not chime in when the same flawed logic is applied to pippen?

When a poster says pippen isn't as good a passer as drexler cuz he avg 2.8 TOs to 2.7? Come on. A tenth of a point?

At least old school basketbal admits he's a biased jordan fan.

[Da_Realist]

I've seen Drexler make passes Pippen could never dream of making.

Here's a nice pass by Drexler --> Drexler No Look Pass to Ainge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkHKQmTy4ro)

[NugzHeat3]

I missed the last two pages, even though Drexler dribbled with his head down, it hardly bothered him.

Maybe once in a blue moon where he'd get called for charging because he couldn't see the floor. I've seen it happen but it happened about as frequently as Shaq going 100% on the foul line.