In Retrospect Should The Knicks Have Agreed to the Shaq Trade?

[NewYorkNoPicks]

In the 90's several months before Shaq's first free agency period, the Magic were in a panic that they would lose their superstar. Multiple reports around the time had Orlando calling the Knicks front office numerous times prior to the summer about a Shaq for Ewing deal.... the Knicks however, turned them down.

In retrospect, assuming the Knicks agreed to the trade and gave Shaq the same mammoth contract he ended up receiving from L.A., would it have brought New York a title? Assume that NY made the same follow up moves aside from signing Allan Houston, as re-upping Shaq would have them strapped for cash.

so you'd have

1996-97

Ward
Starks
Larry Johnson
Oakley
Shaq

1997-98

same roster

1998-99

Ward
Sprewell
L. Johnson
Camby/Kurt Thomas
Shaq

1999-00

same roster

after 01 it went downhill...so lets just consider the above mentioned seasons.

[Kevin_Gamble]

I thought Shaq was set on going to LA. He thought he was movie material, though sadly Muresan ended up having the better film career.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

I thought Shaq was set on going to LA. He thought he was movie material, though sadly Muresan ended up having the better film career.

L.A. was his first choice, but the deal was on the table for NY to make. I don't think he would have refused to re-sign with NY considering he grew up just across the pond in New Jersey, and NY also has large marketing opportunities just like L.A..

[Knicksfever2010]

L.A. was his first choice, but the deal was on the table for NY to make. I don't think he would have refused to re-sign with NY considering he grew up just across the pond in New Jersey, and NY also has large marketing opportunities just like L.A..

wow i thought i was a die hard knicks fan, and this is the FIRST i'm hearing of this rumor.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

wow i thought i was a die hard knicks fan, and this is the FIRST i'm hearing of this rumor.

Yeah I was a young kid at the time but I believe it was Pete Vescey who wrote the article that I remember reading...and that was when Pete was actually an authority in the NBA world.

But like most rumors, nobody remembers them. Do you remember when the Sixers wanted to trade Iverson for Sprewell and Houston? See what I mean...

[Knicksfever2010]

Yeah I was a young kid at the time but I believe it was Pete Vescey who wrote the article that I remember reading...and that was when Pete was actually an authority in the NBA world.

But like most rumors, nobody remembers them. Do you remember when the Sixers wanted to trade Iverson for Sprewell and Houston? See what I mean...

i gotta be honest with you, i dont think vescey was ever accurate. theres a reason why he has been canned more times than george costanza ;)

[Kblaze8855]

I heard Don Nelson wanted to push hard for Shaq and that pissed Ewing off. I never heard that the magic called about it first.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yeah I was a young kid at the time but I believe it was Pete Vescey who wrote the article that I remember reading...and that was when Pete was actually an authority in the NBA world.

But like most rumors, nobody remembers them. Do you remember when the Sixers wanted to trade Iverson for Sprewell and Houston? See what I mean...

I remember something about the Shaq for Ewing rumor, but there's always speculation surrounding big stars. Don't remember that Iverson rumor, but I remember the Iverson to Detroit and Clippers rumors in 2000, but I can't remember what the proposals were.

Regarding the questions, well, there are too many variables. Do we assume that Shaq plays at the same level he did in LA in NY? If so, then I'd say they win in 2000, but none of the other seasons mentioned, but I do think 2001 would be a possibility as well.

But, things could've changed a lot anyway. For example, Phil Jackson said he went to LA initially to coach Shaq, and Phil also met with the Knicks in '99, iirc, so there's a very good chance that he ends up coaching in NY, though I'm assuming in your scenario that Jeff Van Gundy is still the coach.


I heard Don Nelson wanted to push hard for Shaq and that pissed Ewing off. I never heard that the magic called about it first.

Nelson and Ewing never got along. I believe that Nelson didn't want Ewing to be the first option anymore, didn't think they should have so much invested in a declining superstar and I'm pretty sure that he was critical of Ewing's passing as well, and Ewing was pissed off by these criticisms.

[Rekindled]

the knicks would have won it all in 97 if the brawl with miami didnt happen. that was the best knick team of all time.

[Knicksfever2010]

I remember something about the Shaq for Ewing rumor, but there's always speculation surrounding big stars. Don't remember that Iverson rumor, but I remember the Iverson to Detroit and Clippers rumors in 2000, but I can't remember what the proposals were.

Regarding the questions, well, there are too many variables. Do we assume that Shaq plays at the same level he did in LA in NY? If so, then I'd say they win in 2000, but none of the other seasons mentioned, but I do think 2001 would be a possibility as well.

But, things could've changed a lot anyway. For example, Phil Jackson said he went to LA initially to coach Shaq, and Phil also met with the Knicks in '99, iirc, so there's a very good chance that he ends up coaching in NY, though I'm assuming in your scenario that Jeff Van Gundy is still the coach.



Nelson and Ewing never got along. I believe that Nelson didn't want Ewing to be the first option anymore, didn't think they should have so much invested in a declining superstar and I'm pretty sure that he was critical of Ewing's passing as well, and Ewing was pissed off by these criticisms.

remember, nelson wanted mason to be the focal point, and almost be the point guard of the team, and have mason at the top of the key running the offense (smh)

[knickswin]

well yeah, Shaq is a lot better than Ewing and Ewing was starting to break down at that point.

[Rowe]

No.

Shaq at that age with his immaturity would've been a disaster in New York. Espescially when you're considering he'd be replacing Ewing in Ewing's prime.

Ewing still gave us a memorable run later on and although in retrospect it would make sense trading away an aging star for a young star, but I just dont think it would've turned out in a positive way for us.

[eliteballer]

The Knicks turned down 24 year old Shaq for an aging Ewing...right:lol

That would have been like the Celtics refusing to trade Pierce for LeBron.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

The Knicks turned down 24 year old Shaq for an aging Ewing...right:lol

That would have been like the Celtics refusing to trade Pierce for LeBron.

You're probably 16 years old and weren't around for this...so don't comment.

Anyway, Ewing may have had a no trade clause, I remember in 2000 he was able to veto trades. There's probably a bunch of reasons why it didn't happen.

Fact of the matter is though, what do you think is better for the Magic...losing Shaq for NOTHING to you guys, or getting a still Top 10 player for him. :hammerhead:

[eliteballer]

Rumors to do not equate to truth.

[knicksman]

The Knicks turned down 24 year old Shaq for an aging Ewing...right:lol

That would have been like the Celtics refusing to trade Pierce for LeBron.

because this is not 2k11 where you treat franchise players as toys

[niko]

OP made shit up. This wasn't even a rumor. I used to follow religiously back then, just as much as now. Maybe one of OP's friends started a rumor like this or something but it never was a national type thing.

The thought is retarded, the Knicks would have not traded aging Ewing for young Shaq? Why exactly?

[JohnnySic]

I dont remember ever hearing about this...

[necya]

just a little rumor, nothing more, it wasn't even discussed...

the biggest thing was the Lakers who wanted Shaq AND Penny. but Orlando refused for the second.
96-97 lkaers would just have been overloaded of talent (nick, eddie, rookie Bryant)

[niko]

I dont remember ever hearing about this...
BEcause the voices in OP's head don't have a newsletter.

[Joey Zaza]

the knicks would have won it all in 97 if the brawl with miami didnt happen..


Maybe. It was a really good team and they had some success against good teams that season...but that's a pretty big leap. They would have had to beat a prime MJ.


that was the best knick team of all time.

Lets relax a little with that. Maybe best team of the Ewing era.

[guy]

I heard Don Nelson wanted to push hard for Shaq and that pissed Ewing off. I never heard that the magic called about it first.

This is what I remember. I doubt the Magic called first. Ewing was 33 at the time and on the downside. It would've been completely idiotic for the Knicks to turn that down.

[guy]

the knicks would have won it all in 97 if the brawl with miami didnt happen. that was the best knick team of all time.

Knicks were not beating the Bulls.

[SevereUpInHere]

I heard Don Nelson wanted to push hard for Shaq and that pissed Ewing off. I never heard that the magic called about it first.


Yeah I'd never heard of this at all, but I found this article, looks like that's exactly what happened, straight from Donnies mouth.


'I had coached Shaq in the world championships in '94 and established a pretty good relationship with him,'' Nelson said. ''I knew he wanted to go elsewhere and so I brought this up a meeting with the Garden people. I said: 'He would come to New York. It's going to be Los Angeles or us. And if we give 'em Ewing, it would be the best deal Orlando could make.'

''Well, somehow that got back to Ewing and after that, I was toast.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E6D71631F931A35750C0A9619C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

[Court Vision]

wow i thought i was a die hard knicks fan, and this is the FIRST i'm hearing of this rumor.

This was my first thought, but I don't think the trade talks ever materialized into anything significant.

[Money 23]

Knicks would've probably won two or three rings.

And as of right now Kobe would only have two rings on his resume as well.

But honestly, I never remember this trade being proposed, and I followed the league just as religiously, if not more so in my youth.

[Whoah10115]

No.

Shaq at that age with his immaturity would've been a disaster in New York. Espescially when you're considering he'd be replacing Ewing in Ewing's prime.

Ewing still gave us a memorable run later on and although in retrospect it would make sense trading away an aging star for a young star, but I just dont think it would've turned out in a positive way for us.



Thank you.


I don't think Shaq would have been so great without great perimeter players.

[Whoah10115]

the knicks would have won it all in 97 if the brawl with miami didnt happen. that was the best knick team of all time.



I disagree on all counts. The Bulls were better and that Knicks team was not the best Knicks team. I never got that. Maybe if we'd kept Mason.



remember, nelson wanted mason to be the focal point, and almost be the point guard of the team, and have mason at the top of the key running the offense (smh)


I loved the way Mason played in his last season in NY. He was incredible in his first year in Charlotte. Ewing should have swallowed the hurt, because it was a terrible idea to trade Mason for LJ...and I didn't even think Mason was a better player than LJ at that point, but he was the right fit. And Derek Harper was better and a better fit than the waste that was Chris Childs. Another reason why there is no way that Knicks team was the best Knicks team.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Is there a source? I never heard about this either.

[Knicksfever2010]

I disagree on all counts. The Bulls were better and that Knicks team was not the best Knicks team. I never got that. Maybe if we'd kept Mason.





I loved the way Mason played in his last season in NY. He was incredible in his first year in Charlotte. Ewing should have swallowed the hurt, because it was a terrible idea to trade Mason for LJ...and I didn't even think Mason was a better player than LJ at that point, but he was the right fit. And Derek Harper was better and a better fit than the waste that was Chris Childs. Another reason why there is no way that Knicks team was the best Knicks team.

not sure if I agree that mason was better than LJ even at that time in their careers. LJ was a GREAT team player and I cant imagine a team of sprewell and mason together. Hello gun fights and dog fighting at 3 am. fa-la-la-la.

[Da KO King]

Wasn't a real rumor. It's what Don Nelson hoped would happen. Orlando really did think they would get Shaquille to re-sign.

Though no one seems to remember now, Shaq leaving Orlando was NOT always a forgone conclusion. It didn't become apparent that Shaq was done in Orlando until he began to sulk because he felt the team "rushed" him back from mourning the passing of his grandmother.

[MiamiThrice]

Good question.

Should the Knicks have traded their aging star for one of the top five players of all-time that was just about to enter his prime?

I really don't know.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Good question.

Should the Knicks have traded their aging star for one of the top five players of all-time that was just about to enter his prime?

I really don't know.

:lol For real

[G-train]

Thank you.


I don't think Shaq would have been so great without great perimeter players.

I disagree.

Shaq would have been an all time great even if he got traded to the Raptors.

I think younger fans are too inluenced by his late career play.

We are talking about someone that is one of the best players ever in his prime.

[Roundball_Rock]

I disagree.

Shaq would have been an all time great even if he got traded to the Raptors.

I think younger fans are too inluenced by his late career play.

We are talking about someone that is one of the best players ever in his prime.

:applause:

I don't recall ever hearing this at the time either. If it were a serious offer it would have been a no brainer for the Knicks. As others have noted, there is always speculation around superstars so I doubt this was ever serious.

[Whoah10115]

I disagree.

Shaq would have been an all time great even if he got traded to the Raptors.

I think younger fans are too inluenced by his late career play.

We are talking about someone that is one of the best players ever in his prime.



That's not what I'm questioning. I'm questioning that he'd be considered as great.


I'm certainly not influenced by his late career play. I always thought he got away with a lot. I always thought that, while he was one of the best players in the league from the get-go, that his stats are gaudy much related to his self-indulgent approach.


I think he needed to play with another elite player on the perimeter.

[Whoah10115]

not sure if I agree that mason was better than LJ even at that time in their careers. LJ was a GREAT team player and I cant imagine a team of sprewell and mason together. Hello gun fights and dog fighting at 3 am. fa-la-la-la.



That's what I said, that I didn't even think Mason was better than LJ by that point.


With that said, Mason was definitely a better player when the season started. Maybe much of it was due to LJ not being the right piece, but LJ was never the same player after he got traded.

[aj242]

Wasn't a real rumor. It's what Don Nelson hoped would happen. Orlando really did think they would get Shaquille to re-sign.

Though no one seems to remember now, Shaq leaving Orlando was NOT always a forgone conclusion. It didn't become apparent that Shaq was done in Orlando until he began to sulk because he felt the team "rushed" him back from mourning the passing of his grandmother.

Not just that. If I remember correctly, nobody really had the cap space. Orlando wasn't even scared of LA until some last minute brillant maneuvering of Jerry West.

According to Shaq, Orlando said take 90 million or leave it. Which was less then Alonzo & Juwon Howard's deals. Plus 2 million less then Penny's deal which was 90 million.

It was no forgone conclusion he was going to LA in Orlando's mind. I don't believe the Knicks rumors being true at all.

[G-train]

I think he needed to play with another elite player on the perimeter.

I'd say your theory is easily disproven.
As a rookie, supported by such elite perimeter players as Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott and Scott Skiles (sarcasm), he dropped 23/14 and 3.5 blocks. At 20 years old. If that situation never changed, he would have got better still. Even if he didn't get better at all, that was some great play in that season.
Now those 3 were solid NBA players. But they are no Penny or Kobe or Wade, which is what you are eluding to.

[G-train]

I could go further and say in 1994, with a rookie Penny (a raw 16/6 athletic PG) he dropped 29/13 and 3 blocks. At 21 years old.

[SevereUpInHere]

94 was around the time I discovered alcohol, I was pretty sure this trade happened didn't?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YFnDdQ8Mzug/SbAEt1EbGiI/AAAAAAAAAtE/M2OpRkFb74Y/s400/1110962.jpg

Correct me if I'm wrong.