Kobe 360 dunk at 2011 Kobe Academy [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

macpierce

07-08-2011, 08:21 AM

Yes, but you can play younger if nagging injuries and soreness are treated and moderately improve without the use of banned substances. We saw this in the 2010 playoffs where Bryant struggled and looked slow in the first few games against the Thunder, had his knee drained, and then suddenly started to play as if he had found the fountain of youth.
well if you watched carefully, kobe was scoring off of shooting jumpshots back in the 2010 playoffs..........incredible jumpshots against the suns and jazz. with that said..........he wasnt getting much of any layups or dunks.

eliteballer

07-08-2011, 08:24 AM

http://i.imgur.com/i34Bt.jpg

:eek: :eek: :eek:

game3524

07-08-2011, 10:55 AM

Kobe athletic demise has been greatly exaggerated, he isn't the same athlete he was in 2005, but he is still an above average athlete.

TryToBeUnbias

07-08-2011, 11:07 AM

cool dunk.

MaxFly

07-08-2011, 11:21 AM

well if you watched carefully, kobe was scoring off of shooting jumpshots back in the 2010 playoffs..........incredible jumpshots against the suns and jazz. with that said..........he wasnt getting much of any layups or dunks.

A player's knees are incredibly important, even if they are only taking jump shots. The importance of the lift a player gets on his shots should not be understated. Also, lower body mobility is essential in creating separation with footwork and in posting up.

All that said, while Bryant did most of his damage primarily from the perimeter, I recall him getting into the paint and to the rim on several occasions. Here are some clips from the Utah series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG_R1B_k140 Note his mobility.

G-Funk

07-08-2011, 11:35 AM

looked like his knees were gonna break when he landed

FlashDwyaneWade3

07-08-2011, 11:52 AM

Heavincent

07-08-2011, 11:55 AM

Wow. I don't think he has jumped that high in quite a while. Save it for the season Kobe.

MaxFly

07-08-2011, 11:56 AM

Getting the finger fixed won't do anything anyway. Why bother?

Because it gives him the opportunity to call him an idiot.

Calabis

07-08-2011, 11:56 AM

Kobe athletic demise has been greatly exaggerated, he isn't the same athlete he was in 2005, but he is still an above average athlete.

This^^^ dude can do these dunks in his sleep, however acting like this is some proof that he is healed and feels young again is funny as hell. Dude won't be doing that toward the end of a NBA game, nor during the grind of a season....he's totally fresh here and hasn't expended no energy:lol

Heavincent

07-08-2011, 12:02 PM

Another dunk from Kobe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srjl0UXQTYs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

KingMichael23

07-08-2011, 12:04 PM

http://i.imgur.com/i34Bt.jpg
Damn! That's pretty damn high. Did the knee treatment in Germany really work?

Heavincent

07-08-2011, 12:05 PM

Damn! That's pretty damn high. Did the knee treatment in Germany really work?

Looks like it. He hasn't jumped that high in quite a while. Even when he dunked on Okafor, he didn't get up that high.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 12:07 PM

im sure he can still do shit like this. Just not in game time condition

LeFraud James

07-08-2011, 12:55 PM

One of the comments on youtube:

at age 32, 33 next month, kobe does a 360. lebron, 26, travels and dunk on a lil kid at his camp, and doesnt even go upto him and help him get up. smh.

:lol

intrinsic

07-08-2011, 12:56 PM

Nice dunk and everything. What I really want to know is, did Kobe hire that MC off the and1 tour for his camp? Sounds Familiar.

Force

07-08-2011, 01:40 PM

Kobe's head was lower than halfway up the net on a 180 and you guys are ejaculating over this? nice dunk but let's calm down. This is Kobe Bryant, are the standards really this low already?

Theoo's Daddy

07-08-2011, 01:51 PM

I bet he can't do that with Jason kidd guarding him. Cool dunk though.

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 01:59 PM

Guys, age doesn't change. Kobe's on the downside of his prime. We're not getting the young Kobe back.

Samurai Swoosh

07-08-2011, 02:00 PM

I bet he can't do that with Jason kidd guarding him. Cool dunk though.
Neither could LeBron though ...

: |

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 02:03 PM

Guys, age doesn't change. Kobe's on the downside of his prime. We're not getting the young Kobe back.
As if u want a prime Kobe back. :oldlol:

Lebrick looks JV in comparison

YAWN

07-08-2011, 02:07 PM

Another dunk from Kobe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srjl0UXQTYs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

best part of the vid was the random tall kid who tried to dunk and failed :oldlol:

Samurai Swoosh

07-08-2011, 02:13 PM

best part of the vid was the random tall kid who tried to dunk and failed :oldlol:
Random kid = Matt Barnes.

:oldlol:

Heavincent

07-08-2011, 02:13 PM

best part of the vid was the random tall kid who tried to dunk and failed :oldlol:

Wasn't that Matt Barnes?

catch24

07-08-2011, 02:14 PM

best part of the vid was the random tall kid who tried to dunk and failed :oldlol:

lmao, Kobe's jumpshot is on another level compared to LeBron's.

YAWN

07-08-2011, 02:16 PM

Random kid = Matt Barnes.

:oldlol:
:roll: :roll:

thats even better.

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 02:20 PM

lmao, Kobe's jumpshot is on another level compared to LeBron's.

Man, thank God for the ignore list. It's the only way to keep this board even kinda tolerable.

catch24

07-08-2011, 02:21 PM

Man, thank God for the ignore list. It's the only way to keep this board even kinda tolerable.

Saying Kobe's jumpshot is on another level than LeBron's is worth me being on your ignore list?

Samurai Swoosh

07-08-2011, 02:22 PM

Saying Kobe's jumpshot is on another level than LeBron's is worth me being on your ignore list?
Seriously ...

:oldlol:

catch24

07-08-2011, 02:24 PM

Seriously ...

:oldlol:

These groupies get more and more p*ssy hurt each day that goes by since LeBron played hooky in the Finals.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 02:25 PM

Saying Kobe's jumpshot is on another level than LeBron's is worth me being on your ignore list?

Well, it certainly makes you look pathetically ignorant.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 02:26 PM

Man, thank God for the ignore list. It's the only way to keep this board even kinda tolerable.
Are u fvcking kidding me Stanley:oldlol:

catch24

07-08-2011, 02:27 PM

Well, it certainly makes you look pathetically ignorant.

Uh, no it doesn't. Not including this season (since he was coming off knee surgery/battling injuries all-together), Kobe's jumpshot has always been better than LeBron's. Way better in fact.

Heavincent

07-08-2011, 02:34 PM

Uh, no it doesn't. Not including this season (since he was coming off knee surgery/battling injuries all-together), Kobe's jumpshot has always been better than LeBron's. Way better in fact.

Yup. I don't how people can even deny it. Even this season, Kobe was a better jump-shooter.

Lebron is a stronger and better finisher than Kobe. See Lebron stans, I'm a Kobe fan and I can admit what Lebron is better at. You guys should do the same.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 02:38 PM

Uh, no it doesn't.

It does. LeBron was a better jump shooter than Kobe in 10-11. FACT.

Not including this season (since he was coming off knee surgery/battling injuries all-together)

Not buying the excuse, but either way, you should have at least specified this in your post then.

btw, Kobe will be coming off another knee surgery next season, so if he doesn't shoot as well as LeBron, will this be the excuse again? You should know that Kobe hasn't shot better than 10-11 LeBron from 16-23 feet for at least 5 seasons now.

catch24

07-08-2011, 02:40 PM

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant

Am I missing something here? From 10-15 FT, Kobe has always been better. From 16-23 FT LeBron has showed signs and likely will improve. As a body though? Given the volume (hell not even factoring Freethrow percentages), Kobe is a much better shooter than LeBron and always will be.

lol at this even being debated

But yes Indian Guy, if Kobe is healthy and both him and LeBron have similar volumes from mid-to-longrange next year, and LeBron ends up shooting better, I'll be the first to admit he's a better shooter... During their peak/primes though? Not even close.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 02:40 PM

Lol at the Stanleys bringing up those bs stats.

Kobe, melo, durant, dirk would kill for those open jumpers lebrick gets.

He gets the rondo treatment on those jumpers

d.bball.guy

07-08-2011, 02:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/user/ImadoggyDogg#p/a/u/0/oA2Vjo4hPXg

Don't you dare take the name White Mamba from the real White Mamba.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 02:44 PM

Btw kurosawa is the one that said in another thread that lebron was a top 5 shooter in the nba and a comparible shooter to dirk.

Some other stan said he was a better shooter than durant

thejumpa

07-08-2011, 02:44 PM

Is it Kobe vs LeBron yet? lol

Dunk was ok but come on yall....he's 6'6 with stupid long arms and stays in shape. He's supposed to do stuff like this.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 02:48 PM

But yes Indian Guy, if Kobe is healthy and both him and LeBron have the similar volumes from mid-to-longrange next year

10-11 LeBron compares very well to all versions of Kobe, thus rendering your original statement completely incorrect.

catch24

07-08-2011, 02:51 PM

10-11 LeBron compares very well to all versions of Kobe, thus rendering your original statement completely incorrect.

Not really. When you factor in FT shooting and shots from 10-15 FT (volume has to be put into context), LeBron really hasn't.

Sorry, you lose again.

Rysio

07-08-2011, 02:54 PM

:roll: :roll:

LA_Showtime

07-08-2011, 02:55 PM

this idiot should of gotten his finger fixed........his shooting has gone down hill sigh
at least this summer he gets a chance to strengthen his knee so he can actually practice lol

His fingers haven't really hindered his shot. I do believe his 3 point shooting percentage has gone down, though. It'd be nice if Kobe just took threes completely out of his game.

His injuries have noticeably affected his ball handling. It's quite sad. I'd say he's an average ball handler at best these days. At one point it was what separated himself from guys like Vince Carter (that is, before Kobe became a more well rounded player and Vince fell off a cliff).

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 02:56 PM

Here's the thing, neither are great shooters. Kobe isn't Ray Allen and LeBron isn't Chris Mullin. They're both very streak and prone to jacking up a lot of bricks. I honestly think they're about equal right now, with maybe the edge going to LeBron as it seems like he can dominate from the three more than Kobe.

catch24

07-08-2011, 02:58 PM

Derrick

07-08-2011, 02:58 PM

just because he can do a wide open 360 doesnt mean crap. Hes not 40 idk why your all surprised.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 02:59 PM

did one of those idiots really say prime Kobe wasnt a great shooter :roll: :roll: :roll:

this shit is GOLD

LA_Showtime

07-08-2011, 02:59 PM

That dunk didn't impress me at all.

If you want to show off Kobe's athleticism, then show that video where he destroys Okafor. I still can't believe he had that in him.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 03:02 PM

Not really. When you factor in FT shooting and shots from 10-15 FT (volume has to be put into context), LeBron really hasn't.

10-11 LeBron shot 45% from 10-15 feet to Kobe's 48% the last 5 seasons. Minor difference. Compare that to the 5% edge 10-11 LeBron has from 16-23 feet over Kobe the last 5 seasons.

10-11 LeBron compares VERY WELL against all version of Kobe jump-shot wise. It's completely stupid to say Kobe's on a different level anymore. He may have been before, but LeBron's made major inroads over the last year or so. That's how he survived in 10-11.

KenneBell

07-08-2011, 03:04 PM

His fingers haven't really hindered his shot. I do believe his 3 point shooting percentage has gone down, though. It'd be nice if Kobe just took threes completely out of his game.

His injuries have noticeably affected his ball handling. It's quite sad. I'd say he's an average ball handler at best these days. At one point it was what separated himself from guys like Vince Carter (that is, before Kobe became a more well rounded player and Vince fell off a cliff).
Agreed. He can't take threes out of his game because the Lakers don't have anyone else to get threes off consistently. They also have a ton of post players. In a perfect world Kobe would've moved to the wing and post last year and stayed.

Instead he had to spend it out on the perimeter, trying to playmake and get into the lane for the team when he doesn't have the body for that anymore.

I don't think his finger does that much either judging from his shooting in the '10 playoffs. I think it was his legs, knees, and ankles that contributed to his relatively poor 3 point shooting.

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 03:04 PM

How do you figure when Kobe shoots about 7% better from midrange, and the FT line, while LeBron has Kobe beat from 16-23 FT by a few percentages?

This is where stats get a little ridiculous. 7 percent? Really? Watch the games. At no point do I watch Kobe and think "Man, what a great shooter." The same goes for LeBron. Both are prone to take really bad shots and put up a lot of misses. There's not a lot of difference. It's like asking which player is better at getting assists Russell Westbrook or Derrick Rose?

KenneBell

07-08-2011, 03:05 PM

10-11 LeBron shot 45% from 10-15 feet to Kobe's 48% the last 5 seasons.

On what volume? If LeBron takes 1 shot from there then yeah, its a big difference.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 03:07 PM

On what volume? If LeBron takes 1 shot from there then yeah, its a big difference.

LeBron averages 1.5 to Kobe's 3. Neither shoots much from that range.

LA_Showtime

07-08-2011, 03:11 PM

Agreed. He can't take threes out of his game because the Lakers don't have anyone else to get threes off consistently. They also have a ton of post players. In a perfect world Kobe would've moved to the wing and post last year and stayed.

Instead he had to spend it out on the perimeter, trying to playmake and get into the lane for the team when he doesn't have the body for that anymore.

I don't think his finger does that much either judging from his shooting in the '10 playoffs. I think it was his legs, knees, and ankles that contributed to his relatively poor 3 point shooting.

Kobe takes a lot of bad threes that aren't in the context of the offense and are either off balance or heavily guarded. I have no problem with him taking threes to extend the defense if the opportunity presents itself.

Yeah, despite all the hype around his ankle injury I think that drastically affected his play, and is also why he was so mellow after the Lakers got eliminated. He didn't drive to the hoop at all after sustaining the injury.

KenneBell

07-08-2011, 03:12 PM

LeBron averages 1.5 to Kobe's 3. Neither shoots much from that range.
Had to check for myself. Among perimeter players, no one took more mid range shots than Kobe, he was only behind Dirk and Elton brand and at 52% he shot better than anyone with any regular volume of those shots...

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:12 PM

10-11 LeBron shot 45% from 10-15 feet to Kobe's 48% the last 5 seasons. Minor difference. Compare that to the 5% edge 10-11 LeBron has from 16-23 feet over Kobe the last 5 seasons.

10-11 LeBron compares VERY WELL against all version of Kobe jump-shot wise. It's completely stupid to say Kobe's on a different level anymore. He may have been before, but LeBron's made major inroads over the last year or so. That's how he survived in 10-11.

That's not a minor difference when Kobe, on average, has shot 3-4 attempts from 10-15 to LeBron's 1.

LeBron from 16-23 FT:
10: 40%
09: 40%
08: 37%
07: 34%

Kobe from 16-23 FT

10: 41%
09: 42%
08: 38%
07: 42%

Again, what stats are you looking at? You have got to be completely clueless to think LeBron is in Kobe's league when it pertains to shooting. Kobe beats him comfortably in FT, mid range, and long range shooting, combined, for their careers.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:13 PM

LeBron averages 1.5 to Kobe's 3. Neither shoots much from that range.

That's a significant difference actually. That's like Bird attempting 2/3PA to Millers 0.5...

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:15 PM

This is where stats get a little ridiculous. 7 percent? Really? Watch the games. At no point do I watch Kobe and think "Man, what a great shooter." The same goes for LeBron. Both are prone to take really bad shots and put up a lot of misses. There's not a lot of difference. It's like asking which player is better at getting assists Russell Westbrook or Derrick Rose?

Yes, 7 % difference, really. I do watch the games, the stats back up what I see.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant

Educate yourself.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 03:18 PM

That's not a minor difference when Kobe, on average, has shot 3-4 attempts from 10-15 to LeBron's 1.

1.5 to Kobe's 3.

Again, what stats are you looking at? You have got to be completely clueless to think LeBron is in Kobe's league when it pertains to shooting.

Are you not reading my posts? I said 10-11 LeBron compares very well to all versions of Kobe jump-shot wise, and was in fact better this past season. Thus rendering your first statement completely untrue.

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 03:20 PM

Educate yourself.

I knew I was right to want you on ignore.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 03:22 PM

that Asian dude has everybody on ignore. Delusional as fvck

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:25 PM

1.5 to Kobe's 3.

Significant.

Are you not reading my posts? I said 10-11 LeBron compares very well to all versions of Kobe jump-shot wise, and was in fact better this past season. Thus rendering your first statement completely untrue.

Right, this season... where Kobe was injured... That was my original point.

On average (going by what the data says since 2007); however, Kobe has attempted 7 FGA from 16-23 FT and made 40% of them; LeBron has attempted 5 FGA from 16-23 FT and made 39% of them.

ieballer3

07-08-2011, 03:25 PM

lol at the lebron stans in this thread. you have to be really delusional to think lebron is in kobe's league shooting wise. as someone already stated in this thread, lebron gets the rondo treatment. teams want him to shoot, they dare him. kobe gets doubled on the perimeter constantly. just about all his perimeter shots are with a hand in his face and still shoots a better percentage. context... also, how anyone can say lebron is a good shooter is beyond me. just look at lebron's form, it's nasty.

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:26 PM

I knew I was right to want you on ignore.

Nice rebuttal, troll.

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:28 PM

Are you not reading my posts? I said 10-11 LeBron compares very well to all versions of Kobe jump-shot wise, and was in fact better this past season. Thus rendering your first statement completely untrue.

From 16-23 FT you may have a leg to stand on, but from 10-15 FT and the FT line, LeBron simply isn't in Kobe's league.

Try again.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 03:30 PM

when you factor in the different way they are defended on jumpers and the volume..... this convo is a joke.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 03:32 PM

Significant.

Not really. Both barely attempt any shots from that 10-15 foot range.

Right, this season... where Kobe was injured... That was my original point.

Except nobody's comparing 10-11 LeBron to 10-11 Kobe only. I'm comparing current LeBron's jumper to all 5 seasons of Kobe that are recorded on hoopdata, and LeBron stands up very well. That's the POINT - that Kobe's no longer "on a different level" and was IN FACT worse this past season.

On average

That's no what you said though. You said Kobe's on a different level point-blank, indicating that's true TODAY, expect it isn't at all. Current LeBron compares well against any version of Kobe jump-shot wise.

chazzy

07-08-2011, 03:34 PM

Kobe's been defended for his jumpshot first as well, that has to be factored in when comparing the %s straight up

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 03:34 PM

From 16-23 FT you may have a leg to stand on, but from 10-15 FT and the FT line, LeBron simply isn't in Kobe's league.

Again, can you read? Current LeBron compares very well to ANY version of Kobe jump-shot wise. What part of this are you having a difficult time understanding?

IGOTGAME

07-08-2011, 03:35 PM

LeBron averages 1.5 to Kobe's 3. Neither shoots much from that range.

How is 3% better on twice the volume not significant? Especially when Kobe is being dared to drive while Lebron is being dared to shot.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 03:36 PM

Kobe's been defended for his jumpshot first as well

Watch the games, nobody's playing LeBron for the drive anymore. He's as tightly guarded as anyone.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 03:36 PM

Watch the games, nobody's playing LeBron for the drive anymore. He's as tightly guarded as anyone.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 03:38 PM

This is really one of the worst arguments ever. :oldlol:

IGOTGAME

07-08-2011, 03:40 PM

Watch the games, nobody's playing LeBron for the drive anymore. He's as tightly guarded as anyone.

that is just you psychotic version of what is happening.

Heavincent

07-08-2011, 03:40 PM

This is really one of the worst arguments ever. :oldlol:

Thanks to you and Indian Guy.

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 03:41 PM

that is just you psychotic version of what is happening.
:oldlol: :oldlol:

MaxFly

07-08-2011, 03:41 PM

LeBron compared well this season to Bryant, however, over the course of the last several years, Bryant has been a better shooter than LeBron. LeBron has definitely improved and I this as his athleticism begins to wane, he will improve even more.

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 03:42 PM

I just imagine Dirk and Nash reading this and laughing their asses off.

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:43 PM

Not really. Both barely attempt any shots from that 10-15 foot range.

Yes really.

3 FGA from 10-15FT is about 200 shots from in an 82 game season; 1.5 FGA from 10-15 FT is about 120 shots in an 82 game season.

Again, significant.

Except nobody's comparing 10-11 LeBron to 10-11 Kobe only. I'm comparing current LeBron's jumper to all 5 seasons of Kobe that are recorded on hoopdata, and LeBron stands up very well. That's the POINT - that Kobe's no longer "on a different level" and was IN FACT worse this past season.

Except, you're wrong, like always.

Kobe's 2006-2007 season where he was damn-near automatic from mid-long range (shot 42% on 8 attempts from 16-23 FT) was easily better than LeBron's shooting exhibition this season. When you factor in volume, 10-15 FT/midrange, and FT shooting, LeBron still wasn't a better shooter than Kobe. You're delusional.

That's no what you said though you said

I was talking about the volume of shots on average.

Kobe is still on another level than LeBron when it pertains to shooting.

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:44 PM

Again, can you read? Current LeBron compares very well to ANY version of Kobe jump-shot wise. What part of this are you having a difficult time understanding?

Again, can you?

No, he doesn't. LeBron isn't the jumpshooter Kobe is from 10-15 FT. Not even close.

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:45 PM

I just imagine Dirk and Nash reading this and laughing their asses off.

No one is comparing Kobe/LeBron to Dirk and Nash, dumbass.

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 03:46 PM

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 03:47 PM

No one is comparing Kobe/LeBron to Dirk and Nash, dumbass.
he said that Lebron is just as good a shooter as Dirk in another thread

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:47 PM

catch24 This user is on your Ignore List.
Today 03:44 PM
catch24 This user is on your Ignore List.
Today 03:44 PM
kaiiu This user is on your Ignore List.
Today 03:43 PM
catch24 This user is on your Ignore List.

You guys do realize that's what I see right?

This is what happens when you get carved up.

Heavincent

07-08-2011, 03:48 PM

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 03:49 PM

Are you guys seriously quoting my ignore messages? Really?

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 03:49 PM

Yes, let's debate which player is a slightly less mediocre shooter. Come on...

catch24

07-08-2011, 03:50 PM

Are you guys seriously quoting my ignore messages? Really?

Are you seriously still replying in a thread you got your ass kicked in?

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 03:52 PM

Kurasawa got owned so now he resorts to stupid petty shit. Feels good man. Good work Catch :applause:

" are we really arguing who is a slightly less mediocre shooter"

:roll: :roll:

Rysio

07-08-2011, 03:59 PM

chazzy

07-08-2011, 04:12 PM

Yes, let's debate which player is a slightly less mediocre shooter. Come on...
What is your problem dude? You called him out for his %s and he gave you the facts, now you put him on ignore and try to undermine the entire basis of the argument altogether. I guess we can only discuss elite players and elite abilities now.

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 04:17 PM

What is your problem dude? You called him out for his %s and he gave you the facts, now you put him on ignore and try to undermine the entire basis of the argument altogether. I guess we can only discuss elite players and elite abilities now.

Nah, it was the dickish "Educate yourself." That, and I knew it'd send him into a hissy fit.

I didn't actually call out the numbers. I said that this is a case where the numbers aren't really that relevant.

The thing is, there's not a whole lot of separation between the two. If you want to argue either side, fine. I don't because I really feel like both are fairly mediocre shooters. They can get hot and kill it or they can miss a whole bunch. To make this some big argument is a bit ridiculous.

It's like I said, it's like asking which player is better at getting assists, Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook? Does it really matter?

I feel about as comfortable with a LeBron James jump shot as I do a Kobe Bryant one.

Now if you're arguing career, I'd take Kobe. Now? Meh...

brownmamba00

07-08-2011, 04:21 PM

So wait, did you get butthurt just because he said 'educate yourself'?

:facepalm

catch24

07-08-2011, 04:50 PM

LeBron's ability to shoot doesn't get diminished just because he happens to be a more effective interior player than Kobe. That's the sole reason for the minute difference in perimeter attempts between the 2 players. 32% of Kobe's total FGA were from 16-23 feet the last 5 seasons. 28% for LeBron this past season. VERY insignificant difference, thus making the difference in their volumes a non-issue. Same goes for 10-15 feet, where 14% of Kobe's total FGA came from that area, 9% for LeBron.

No one is saying LeBron's ability to shoot gets diminished; use your brain.

Again, Kobe, on average, attempts 2 more shots from 16-23 FT for their careers. This season wasn't even close in comparison to Kobe's 2006-2007 year, where he shot 8 FGA per game from 16-23 FT, averaging 42% shooting; he also averaged a FG more from 10-15 FT and STILL shot the ball better by 3%.

The volumes are definitely significant. The same does NOT go for 10-15 FT where Kobe attempts 80 more shots a season.

When you get down to it, 10-11 LeBron is better than Kobe's been from 16-23 feet the last 5 years, and only 3% short from 10-15 feet. The difference in volume, as proven above, is completely insignificant.

Wrong. When you get down to it, you have to take defense and FGA into context. LeBron's 16-23 FT game doesn't compare to Kobe's 16-23 FT %'s, in 2006-2007, where he attempted 3 FGA more.

42% from 16-23 FT on 8.4FGA >>>> 45% from 16-23 FT on 5.4 FGA. When you account for defensive attention, it's really not all that close.

No you weren't :oldlol:, because their volumes are very similar. What you flat out said is Kobe's on a different level as a shooter, when there's absolutely nothing supporting this anymore. You were WRONG.

Uhhh, yes... I was. Apparently you have trouble comprehending. Why would I say on average to anything besides the numbers/stats? Kobe is better than LeBron with EASE (factoring in 10-15 FT midrange jumpshots, FT shooting; not just 16-23 FT like you keep repeating).

Too bad all FACTS disagree with you. Repeating lies won't make your BS come true.

Too bad they don't. Not my fault you can't read, "wee one".

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 04:50 PM

Kobe's 2006-2007 season where he was damn-near automatic from mid-long range (shot 42% on 8 attempts from 16-23 FT)

LeBron's ability to shoot doesn't get diminished just because he happens to be a more effective interior player than Kobe. That's the sole reason for the minute difference in perimeter attempts between the 2 players. 32% of Kobe's total FGA were from 16-23 feet the last 5 seasons. 29% for LeBron this past season. VERY insignificant difference, thus making the difference in their volumes a non-issue. Same goes for 10-15 feet, where 14% of Kobe's total FGA came from that region, 9% for LeBron.

When you get down to it, 10-11 LeBron is better than Kobe's been from 16-23 feet the last 5 years, and only 3% short from 10-15 feet. The difference in volume, as proven above, is completely insignificant.

I was talking about the volume of shots on average.

No you weren't :oldlol:, because their volumes are very similar. What you flat out said is Kobe's on a different level as a shooter, when there's absolutely nothing supporting this anymore. You were WRONG.

Kobe is still on another level than LeBron when it pertains to shooting.

Too bad all FACTS disagree with you. Repeating lies won't make your BS come true.

catch24

07-08-2011, 04:51 PM

Well you can respond to my post; I see you deleted your original one.

chazzy

07-08-2011, 04:56 PM

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 05:02 PM

Again, Kobe, on average, attempts 2 more shots from 16-23 FT for their careers.

Over the last 5 years, Kobe only attempts 3% more shots from 16-23 feet than LeBron does.

The volumes are definitely significant.

How is 3% and 5% significant?

The same does NOT go for 10-15 FT where Kobe attempts 80 more shots a season from 10-15 FT.

Kobe also shoots A LOT more than LeBron does. When adjusted to FGA, the difference between their FGA from 10-15 feet is ONLY 5%. That's nothing.

When you get down to it, you have to take defense and FGA into context. LeBron's 16-23 feet doesn't compare to Kobe's 16-23 FT %'s in 2006-2007 where he attempted 3 FGA on.

Why are you stuck on his volume for 1 season? It's not like Kobe's efficiency changed after his FGA from 16-23 feet went significantly down following 06-07. If anything, it went down. So what does volume prove anything here?

Why would I say on average to anything besides stats?

You didn't say anything about AVERAGES when you initially said Kobe's on a different level than LeBron. Clearly, you had no clue how good of a shooter 10-11 LeBron was. When I brought his impressive percentages to your attention, you quickly back pedaled and changed your argument to volume, but that doesn't work either. Because ON AVERAGE over the last 5 years, Kobe only attempts 3% more shots from 16-23 feet than LeBron. Only 5% more from 10-15 feet.

Too bad they don't.

They absolutely do. Your entire argument when confronted with the fact that 10-11 LeBron's jumper percentages compared very well with Kobe over the last 5 years was "OMG look at the volume!!". Turns out, the difference in volume is not significant at all. So, you were proven wrong. There's ZILCH supporting your claim of Kobe being on a different level as a shooter than LeBron.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 05:07 PM

Why does the % of their total shots matter?

How does it not matter? This is the equivalent of saying the team that scores the most is the best offensive team! Except we KNOW that doesn't account for things like actual efficiency. So we adjust for pace to get a more accurate picture, right? So how's this any different?

Attempts are attempts, and Kobe's attempted more on average than Lebron has

The point is, the different in their attempts is completely insignificant. When BOTH players take the same amount of shots, Kobe's only taking 3% more shots from 16-23 feet.

Samurai Swoosh

07-08-2011, 05:12 PM

LeBron being declared a better shooter than Bryant ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/MitchMatch/guidos-guidettes-another-situation.gif

catch24

07-08-2011, 05:20 PM

Over the last 5 years, Kobe only attempts 3% more shots from 16-23 feet than LeBron does.

Where have I argued otherwise? Kobe attempts 3% more and still shoots a better % over the course of 5 seasons.

Reality

How is 3% and 5% significant?

How is 47% to 50% shooting significant?

Kobe also shoots A LOT more than LeBron does. When adjusted to FGA, the difference between their FGA from 10-15 feet is ONLY 5%. That's nothing.

5% is a big difference.

As I pointed out the difference between 1.5 - 3 (when you were talking about their number of midrange shots) is about 80+ more/less a season. Definitely a difference.

Why are you stuck on his volume for 1 season? It's not like Kobe's efficiency changed after his FGA from 16-23 feet went significantly down following 06-07. If anything, it went down. So what does volume prove anything here?

I'm not; you just think this season of LeBron's compare's to any (even Kobe's 2006-2007 year) season of Bryant's from a shooting standpoint, and it just isn't true.

Kobe is better from 10-15 FT from his career by at least 7%; Kobe is better from the FT line by at least 7%; Kobe is better than LeBron by a couple percentages from 16-23 FT. What does that mean when you tally it up? That Kobe is significantly a better shooter.

You didn't say anything about AVERAGES when you initially said Kobe's on a different level than LeBron.

I brought out the term averages when I was posting stats; me thinking LeBron is significantly worse than Kobe as a shooter only backs the numbers (averages) I posted.

Actually I do. http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?t=222605&page=2

I've been keeping track of most perimeter scorers shooting averages this season.

They absolutely do. Your entire argument when confronted with the fact that 10-11 LeBron's jumper percentages compared very well with Kobe over the last 5 years was "OMG look at the volume!!". Turns out, the difference in volume is not significant at all. So, you were proven wrong. There's ZILCH supporting your claim of Kobe being on a different level as a shooter than LeBron.

My argument was confronted with stupidty. I had to bring out the volume (and stats) because your stupid ass is allergic to reality. I can only back my opinion with facts - and I did.

There's a huge difference; again use that brain of yours.

Kobe shoots 3 FGA per game compared to LeBron's 1.5 FGA from 10-15 FT (remember, 1.5 more FGA is 80+ more shots a season ATLEAST) and shoots MUCH better; Kobe is easily a better shooter from the charity stripe and a better shooter from 16-23 FT for their careers. When you factor the midrange and FT shooting differences it's really not close (where 16-23 FT was close the last few seasons).

Droid101

07-08-2011, 05:20 PM

chazzy

07-08-2011, 05:21 PM

How does it not matter? This is the equivalent of saying the team that scores the most is the best offensive team! Except we KNOW that doesn't account for things like actual efficiency. So we adjust for pace to get a more accurate picture, right? So how's this any different?
Because we're comparing the efficiency of the two, not the total points produced from their attempts. Accuracy drops as volume increases regardless of what ratio it has to the total FGA. If someone takes 1 3PA out of their 8 attempts and another player takes 3 out of their 24 attempts, we can't just say the difference in volume is insignificant because of what % their total shots are 3PA.

catch24

07-08-2011, 05:25 PM

Because we're comparing the efficiency of the two, not the total points produced from their attempts. Accuracy drops as volume increases regardless of what ratio it has to the total FGA. If someone takes 1 3PA out of their 8 attempts and another player takes 3 out of their 24 attempts, we can't just say the difference in volume is insignificant because of what % their total shots are 3PA.

Exactly. Everything he's posted has been non sequitur.

Kurosawa0

07-08-2011, 05:31 PM

We don't give a shit you ****ing attention whore. Go away.

I won't go away, but you will.

StacksOnDeck

07-08-2011, 05:35 PM

Lol @ Indian kid still pretending to be a Bulls fan.

LA_Showtime

07-08-2011, 05:37 PM

... Just watch the games. It's painfully obvious that Kobe is the better mid-range scorer. The gap widens even further when you look at Kobe's prime.

catch24

07-08-2011, 05:37 PM

I'm out.

Apparently 5 percentage points only count when it pertains to FG%. If you people think LeBron is comparable to Kobe as an all-around shooter, that's on you.

tpols

07-08-2011, 05:40 PM

... Just watch the games. It's painfully obvious that Kobe is the better mid-range scorer. The gap widens even further when you look at Kobe's prime.
Another thing to add on to all of the statistical evidence is that Kobe doesn't get near the air space Lebron does on his jumpshot. Teams respect Lebron's drive a whole lot more than they respect his shot, so they'll always give him some room to prevent the blow by. Kobe on the other hand, has always been a midrange shooter.. it's his bread and butter. Defenders would rather him get by them and have to deal with their big men than give him an open look at the basket from midrange distance. So really Lebron isn't close.

If you were to line these guys up in a gym and make them take 100 jumpers from 5 different midrange points Kobe would smoke Lebron. He just has better form and accuracy. Kobe's a flat out better shooter.

Samurai Swoosh

07-08-2011, 05:40 PM

Lol @ Indian kid still pretending to be a Bulls fan.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/MitchMatch/azgsvp.gif

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 05:45 PM

Where have I argued otherwise? Kobe attempts 3% more and still shoots a better % over the course of 5 seasons.

WTF? :oldlol:. I love your selective amnesia where you continue to ignore we are comparing 10-11 LeBron to Kobe here. So no, Kobe doesn't shoot better than LeBron from 16-23 feet over the last 5 seasons. He's 5% worse, in fact.

How is 47% to 50% shooting significant?

Where's the correlation? A superior FG% is accomplished by actually making a higher percentage of your shots. There's no accomplishment in simply jacking up more shots, and that too by such a minimal amount - 3% more from 16-23 feet and 5% more 10-15 feet. These numbers couldn't be more meaningless.

Kobe is better from 10-15 FT from his career by at least 7%

Here we go :oldlol:. We are only comparing 10-11 LeBron to Kobe, dumbass. Stop talking about what LeBron's done prior to 10-11. Nobody's saying he was in Kobe's league as a shooter then.

My argument was confronted with stupidty. I had to bring out the volume (and stats) because your stupid ass is allergic to reality.

We have already established that the difference in their volumes is completely insignificant. LeBron and Kobe pretty much shoot the same amount of shots from 10-23 feet, and since 10-11 LeBron's percentages match up very well against any version of Kobe, the logical conclusion is that your original statement of Kobe being way better couldn't be further from the truth.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 05:53 PM

Because we're comparing the efficiency of the two, not the total points produced from their attempts.

It's the same thing. When we adjust for pace to deduce the league's best offensive team, we DON'T say Could SA keep up their efficiency had they played at GS's pace?. How's this any different? The difference in Kobe and LeBron's volume is SO minimal that it's completely nonsensical to think LeBron wouldn't maintain his efficiency with increased FGA.

ieballer3

07-08-2011, 05:54 PM

what's really funny is trying to cherry pick stats to compare lebron's best shooting season ever to kobe's worst. even so, considering clutchness, free throws and defense played on each, kobe easily comes out on top. it's so obvious that if you were to take a poll of all the nba players in the league, i bet 99% (probably 100%) would vote for kobe clearly being the better shooter. yet here you are trying to argue what's obvious to anyone that plays the game. at least we all know where you two lebron homers stand, or maybe i should say sit.

catch24

07-08-2011, 05:55 PM

One last post:

Notice how Indian Guy is all over the place with the years he's comparing? I was talking about the 2010-2011 season where Kobe shot better from 10-15 FT by 7% (rounded) on 1+ attempt (http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant) and he switches it up to, well, 16-23 FT - where LeBron has been better this season than any of Kobe's seasons in the past (going back to 2007). Now for people who can comprehend the English Language, did Indian-Idiot not just compare LeBron to Kobe the past 5 seasons?

I respond, saying Kobe was better than LeBron in 2007 from 16-23 FT because he made 42% of his shots from there on 3+ more attempts! What is this clowns response? Don't dimish LeBron's jumpshot just because he he is more effective from the inside.

What a f*cking joke this kid is. How do you begin to debate someone with their head that far up LeBron's ass?

Again, for the last time - Kobe (since you indirectly made the comparison more than just a season) was better than LeBron, as a shooter, not just from 16-23 FT, during the 2006-2007 season.

Anyone is welcome to look for themselves (http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant). Notice the volume of shots from 16-23FT, the better % from 10-15 FT, and of course, the better FT shooting).

YAWN

07-08-2011, 05:56 PM

Watch the games, nobody's playing LeBron for the drive anymore. He's as tightly guarded as anyone.
oh my.. not sure if serious...

Jacks3

07-08-2011, 06:00 PM

oh my.. not sure if serious...
lol

thejumpa

07-08-2011, 06:00 PM

Kobe is a better mid range shooter than LeBron. That's a fact. It's not that big of a deal, anyway. That doesn't make him the superior player IMO.

This thread is about Kobe's lame ass dunk anyway...not LBJ

tpols

07-08-2011, 06:05 PM

Do you guys relize that FT percentage is the ultimate way of checking how good a player is at shooting the basketball? Pick any of the greatest shooters in the game~ Nash, Dirk, Ray Allen, etc. literally anyone of them. They ALL shoot like 90% from the stripe. Then look at all of the terrible shooters.. Shaq, Ben Wallace.. they shoot terribly from the line. Free throw shooting is a great benchmark of form, confidence in the shot, and overall accuracy. You cant just compare raw data with these guys because one is played for the shot and one is played for the drive.. and the one who faces more pressure on his jumpshot STILL is more efficient.

FT Shooting 10-11:
Kobe: 83%
Lebron: 76%

It's not even close. Lebron's shot doesn't compare whatsoever to Kobe's. The only reason Lebron shot better from the midrange this year than he did in previous years is because he had less overall defensive attention on him[because of Wade and Bosh].

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 06:12 PM

One last post:

Notice how Indian Guy is all over the place with the seasons he's comparing?

Sure you aren't talking about yourself? When have I ever not compared 10-11 LeBron to ONLY 07-11 Kobe in this thread?

I was talking about the 2010-2011 season

You mean the season you kept dis-including initially because you felt Kobe was injured and returning from surgery? Why suddenly approve of this season now after completely discounting it at the beginning?

What is this clowns response? Don't dimish LeBron's jumpshot this season just because he he is more effective from the inside.

Which was a perfectly legit response to explain the completely miniscule difference(4%) between their FGA from 10-23 feet. 07-11 Kobe, for all purposes, wasn't shooting jumpers any more than LeBron was in 10-11.

Again, for the last time - Kobe (since you indirectly made the comparison more than this season)

I was taking his average over the last 5 seasons, not comparing singular seasons. And even if we pretend 06-07 was on a different level than LeBron(even though all data disagrees), you are basing your opinion of Kobe>>>>>>>>>LeBron TODAY based on what happened 5 years ago? WTF??

StacksOnDeck

07-08-2011, 06:13 PM

Indian guy, you're wrong. It's okay. Also remove the Bulls avy. You never post about them.

catch24

07-08-2011, 06:24 PM

Can't help myself (honestly, I just wanna know why IG fights reality)... Sue me.

Does Kobe not shoot better than LeBron from the Freethrow line and 10-15 FT, by at LEAST 14%+ all-together? Where as LeBron, just this last two seasons (but we're only comparing and contrasting this year) only shoots better from 3PT and 16-23 FT (8% better all-together), correct?

Now when factoring how they're covered (remember Kobe is strictly a jumpshooter now), do the numbers not back that Kobe is easily a better all-around shooter?

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 06:26 PM

btw when did mid 70 % wing ft shooters become good shooters? :oldlol:

blablabla

07-08-2011, 06:31 PM

in b4 kobe starts raping the nba again
well here we go again

catch24

07-08-2011, 06:31 PM

btw when did mid 70 % wing ft shooters become good shooters? :oldlol:

Mcgrady was hovering around the mid 70's for a while. I don't think he was a bad shooter at all. It's just more often than not, a guy shooting 7-8%+ better from the charity stripe is gonna be a better shooter.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 06:37 PM

Now when factoring how they're covered

There's no difference between how LeBron and Kobe are covered anymore. This isn't 2007.

do the numbers not back that Kobe is easily a better all-around shooter?

**** no. LeBron's better from outside of 16 feet and Kobe's better from 10-15 feet. LeBron's superiority covers more distance on the floor and is a bigger part of both player's game, so I don't know how you can reach the conclusion Kobe's easily better, if better at all.

Bottom line is this, you still haven't done jacksh!t to prove Kobe's on a different level than 10-11 LeBron. How could you? Numbers just don't back it up. That's why I guess you have suddenly jumped on Kobe's 10-11 season because of the 51% shooting from 10-15 feet, even though you were all bent on not including this season at all at the beginning :oldlol:

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 06:38 PM

Mcgrady was hovering around the mid 70's for a while. I don't think he was a bad shooter at all. It's just more often than not, a guy shooting 7-8%+ better from the charity stripe is gonna be a better shooter.
Meh... Mcgrady hovered around 77 % for his career. He was never a ELITE all around shooter. He was a good shooter who had a great shot off the dribble.

Lebron has a career average of like 74 % and was a mediocre shooter all around for his career.

catch24

07-08-2011, 06:40 PM

There's no difference between how LeBron and Kobe are covered anymore. This isn't 2007.

You've got to be shitting me. You don't think defenses prep differently for them? What? :roll:

**** no. LeBron's better from outside of 16 feet and Kobe's better from 10-15 feet. LeBron's superiority covers more distance on the floor and is a bigger part of both player's game, so I don't know how you can reach the conclusion Kobe's easily better, if better at all.

Bottom line is this, you still haven't done jacksh!t to prove Kobe's on a different level than 10-11 LeBron. How could you? Numbers just don't back it up. That's why I guess you have suddenly jumped on Kobe's 10-11 season because of the 51% shooting from 10-15 feet, even though you were all bent on not including this season at all at the beginning :oldlol:

So you ignore midrange and FT shooting. OK, that's all I needed to know.

How don't the numbers back that up when you cover the main aspects of shooting (from the field), and Bryant comes up with a 7%+ advantage? I'm seriously confused. How can you deny the evidence when it's right in front of your face?

bizil

07-08-2011, 06:42 PM

Kobe athletic demise has been greatly exaggerated, he isn't the same athlete he was in 2005, but he is still an above average athlete.

Great point! Kobe's game wasn't based solely on athletic ability anyway. He was also regarded as the best all around player in the L until Lebron started improving. Kobe has one of the greatest midrange games ever and has the post game as well. Kobe had so many tools in the chest that if one comes out the box he's still better than 99% of the L at 33 years of age. Its funny to me that Dirk is the same age and NOBODY says Dirk is old. Sure Kobe isnt' quite as athletic. But he's still a top five player in the L.

N0Skillz

07-08-2011, 06:44 PM

LeBron averages 1.5 to Kobe's 3.

SO over the course of the season Kobe takes double the amount of those shots...

Very significant

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 06:49 PM

You've got to be shitting me. You don't think defenses prep differently for them? What? :roll:

In terms of space allowed for shooting jumpers, no, there is no difference in how they're defended 1-on-1 anymore.

So you ignore midrange and FT shooting.

Uhh, didn't I say Kobe's better from 10-15 feet? Just like LeBron's better outside of 16 feet.

How don't the numbers back that up when you cover the main aspects of shooting (from the field)

What happens between those 10-15 feet makes up for a far smaller aspect of Kobe and LeBron's game than what happens outside of 16 feet. Just look at the HUGE difference in shot attempts! LeBron's biggest edge as a jump shooter over Kobe is from the area Kobe RELIES most on in order to score.

How can you deny the evidence when it's right in front of your face?

The only evidence I'm interested in seeing is your original claim of Kobe being on a different level as a shooter than LeBron today. Since all data indicates otherwise, can you at least admit you were way wrong?

kaiiu

07-08-2011, 06:50 PM

clearly Indian Girl is trolling. Dont even know why Catch24 is responding still. He already destroyed both the Stans

N0Skillz

07-08-2011, 06:51 PM

Indian Guy = Sad
Kurasorwa = Sadder

Blind people these days.......

Lebron not getting defended on drives?

Just two stupid fckn trolls that want someone to see them.

tpols

07-08-2011, 06:52 PM

In terms of space allowed for shooting jumpers, no, there is no difference in how they're defended 1-on-1 anymore.

You're dead wrong.:oldlol:

Kobe primarily shoots his midrange jumpers out of the post now and they're almost always contested fadeaways with a defender draped all over him. Lebron still gets his jumpshots from the triple threat position with a defender a couple of feet off him. What a joke.

StacksOnDeck

07-08-2011, 06:55 PM

You guys realize Indian Guy is just trolling? You guys lost for even debating with this kid.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 06:55 PM

Lebron still gets his jumpshots from the triple threat position with a defender a couple of feet off him.

You're still stuck in 2007. Find me these clips of defenders backing off LeBron and gladly giving him the jumper. Go ahead.

catch24

07-08-2011, 06:58 PM

In terms of space allowed for shooting jumpers, no, there is no difference in how they're defended 1-on-1 anymore.

Uhh, didn't I say Kobe's better from 10-15 feet? Just like LeBron's better outside of 16 feet.

Bullsh*t. There's much more air space for LeBron because of his ability to take it to the basket (of course he's regressed from seasons past, you of all people should know, but Kobe doesn't even have that luxury now-adays). If you watched him on a consistent-basis this past year, you'd know he was strictly a jumpshooter. Please grab a clue.

What happens between those 10-15 feet makes up for a far smaller aspect of Kobe and LeBron's game than what happens outside of 16 feet. Just look at the HUGE difference in shot attempts! LeBron's biggest edge as a jump shooter over Kobe is from the area Kobe RELIES most on in order to score.

Then you factor in FT shooting and 3PT shooting. Since the disparity in FT %'s larger, Kobe wins by at least 7% (could be 6% -- I already forgot the percentages).

Do I believe Kobe's all-around shooting (this season) is clearly better than LeBron's? Absolutely. Did I over-exaggerate by saying Kobe's jumper was on another level than LeBron's? Yes. If we are talking about this season, you're right, I shouldn't have overstated.

tpols

07-08-2011, 06:59 PM

You're still stuck in 2007. Find me these clips of defenders backing off LeBron and gladly giving him the jumper. Go ahead.
When did I say defenders 'gladly give' him a jumper? I said they stay about 2 feet off of him when he has the ball in the triple threat.. It is by no means an open jumper, but it is more space than what Kobe gets. Kobe this past season didn't have the athleticism to get much separation off of his man.. the large majority of midrange shots he took came out of the post and they were fadeaways because he had a man right up against him. Lebron NEVER has to take fade aways because his man is always a foot or two off of him. Jesus Christ man, are you serious with this shit?

catch24

07-08-2011, 07:01 PM

When did I say defenders 'gladly give' him a jumper? I said they stay about 2 feet off of him when he has the ball in the triple threat.. It is by no means an open jumper, but it is more space than what Kobe gets. Kobe this past season didn't have the athleticism to get much separation off of his man.. the large majority of midrange shots he took came out of the post and they were fadeaways because he had a man right up against him. Lebron NEVER has to take fade aways because his man is always a foot or two off of him. Jesus Christ man, are you serious with this shit?

It's crazy. Honestly, I'm just trying to figure out why he (and other crazy ass people on this forum) believe the shit they do.

Xsatyr

07-08-2011, 07:12 PM

TMac past his prime, big deal it means nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX8CCMKVulQ&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhT5tZucGsQ

Kobe is more determined though, obviously.
Nice dunk either way, still skeptical how a full season will take its toll.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 07:15 PM

Bullsh*t. There's much more air space for LeBron because of his ability to take it to the basket

This is just not true anymore. LeBron's no more capable of breaking a defense down in the half-court today than Kobe is. He's a much more effective finisher ONCE he gets in there because of superior leaping ability and size, but as a threat to penetrate? They're essentially the same. Thus nobody backing off of LeBron anymore, that and the fact that he's simply a much better shooter today than he used to be.

Then you factor in FT shooting and 3PT shooting. Since the disparity in FT %'s larger, Kobe wins by at least 7% (could be 6% -- I already forgot the percentages).

You're factoring in FT% way too much, considering 07-11 Kobe and 10-11 LeBron's numbers are mostly a wash from 10-23 feet. There are plenty of scorers out there who shot a TON better than 10-11 Kobe from the FT line - Nowitzki, Billups, Durant, Ray Allen, Nash, CP3 - do you consider them on a different level than Kobe as shooters too?

And again, LeBron enjoys a humongous 8%+ edge from the area Kobe RELIES most on in order to score. That makes up for the FT edge Kobe has.

If we are talking about this season, you're right, I shouldn't have overstated.

Not just this season, but any season of Kobe's career compared to 10-11 LeBron. Safe to assume the numbers charted on hoopdata are the best of Kobe's career, and considering 10-11 LeBron compares very well against them, your original comment couldn't have been more off.

tpols

07-08-2011, 07:17 PM

LeBron's no more capable of breaking a defense down in the half-court today than Kobe is.
:roll:
Aigt I'm out.. I've seen it all now.

chazzy

07-08-2011, 07:17 PM

Another angle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3LDFhZYNQw)

catch24

07-08-2011, 07:27 PM

This is just not true anymore. LeBron's no more capable of breaking a defense down in the half-court today than Kobe is. He's a much more effective finisher ONCE he gets in there because of superior leaping ability and size, but as a threat to penetrate? They're essentially the same. Thus nobody backing off of LeBron anymore, that and the fact that he's simply a much better shooter today than he used to be.

You do realize Kobe is 32 and LeBron is 26, right? You do understand that Kobe has way more mileage than LeBron does, right?

I may joke on here and other places..but this crap is inexcusable. You are flat out nuts to really think LeBron is no more capable of breaking down a defense in the half court.

You're factoring in FT% way too much, considering 07-11 Kobe and 10-11 LeBron's numbers are mostly a wash from 10-23 feet. There are plenty of scorers out there who shot a TON better than 10-11 Kobe from the FT line - Nowitzki, Billups, Durant, Ray Allen, Nash, CP3 - do you consider them on a different level than Kobe as shooters too?

No I'm not. They cancel each other out from 10-15/16-23FT, that leaves us with 3PT and Freethrow shooting. LeBron shoots 1% better from 3; Kobe shoots 7% better from the line. As I said, about a 6% difference.

I consider Durant, Dirk, Allen, Nash and CP3 all better shooters. Better from midrange and long range is a different story. I've maintained that Kobe is a better all-around shooter than LeBron this entire time.

I'm not gonna continue to debate something that's obvious. Kobe is clearly a better shooter than LeBron. End of story.

Fatal9

07-08-2011, 07:29 PM

damn, kobester looking young in that clip :applause:

lot of pages in this thread, assuming MJ fans are mad their boy couldn't do 360s (there is like one from the '85 dunk contest and it's barely a 180).

catch24

07-08-2011, 07:30 PM

Eat Like A Bosh

07-08-2011, 07:44 PM

Come on! A wide open 360, are standards becoming that low for Kobe now?
It was nice to see him dunk it, but the one over Okafor still impressed me more.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 07:52 PM

You do realize Kobe is 32 and LeBron is 26, right?

You also realize LeBron weighs 270+ pounds to Kobe's 210, right?

I consider Durant, Dirk, Allen, Nash and CP3 all better shooters.

But do you consider them on an entirely different level? A case where it's not even close? Taking into account 10-15 FT/16-23 FT/3PT%/FT%, Durant is +5% on Kobe, CP3 +9%, Nash +20%, Ray Allen +22%, Dirk +25%. Would you say there's a FAR bigger difference between these players than there is between Kobe and LeBron?

Kobe is clearly a better shooter than LeBron.

Definitely not as clear as Durant, Dirk, Ray, Nash and CP3 being FAAAAAR better shooters than Kobe. And even if Kobe is better than LeBron, numbers clearly suggest it's very CLOSE and you were completely talking out of your ass to suggest Kobe was on a different level.

Calabis

07-08-2011, 07:55 PM

You do realize Kobe is 32 and LeBron is 26, right? You do understand that Kobe has way more mileage than LeBron does, right?

I may joke on here and other places..but this crap is inexcusable. You are flat out nuts to really think LeBron is no more capable of breaking down a defense in the half court.

No I'm not. They cancel each other out from 10-15/16-23FT, that leaves us with 3PT and Freethrow shooting. LeBron shoots 1% better from 3; Kobe shoots 7% better from the line. As I said, about a 6% difference.

I consider Durant, Dirk, Allen, Nash and CP3 all better shooters. Better from midrange and long range is a different story. I've maintained that Kobe is a better all-around shooter than LeBron this entire time.

I'm not gonna continue to debate something that's obvious. Kobe is clearly a better shooter than LeBron. End of story.

Although I am on u'r side...does Kobe really have more mileage than Lebron at the same age....Lebron came in is rookie year and immediately had a huge burden of double teams and was the opposing teams main focus...Kobe had at least 7 seasons without this burdern. Other than that I agree with u 100%

catch24

07-08-2011, 08:04 PM

You also realize LeBron weighs 270+ pounds to Kobe's 210, right?

I also recognize Kobe has played in far more finals than LeBron, with at least 7+ more years on him. Apparently you forgot about Kobe going through 2-3 knee surgeries (including arthroscopic--which can be career ending).

But do you consider them on an entirely different level? A case where it's not even close? Taking into account 10-15 FT/16-23 FT/3PT%/FT%, Durant is +5% on Kobe, CP3 +9%, Nash +20%, Ray Allen +22%, Dirk +25%. Would you say there's a FAR bigger difference between these players than there is between Kobe and LeBron?

I consider Dirk, Nash and Ray Allen to be on completely different levels, as shooters, than Kobe and LeBron. CP3 and Durant would be clearly better.

Definitely not as clear as Durant, Dirk, Ray, Nash and CP3 being FAAAAAR better shooters than Kobe. And even if Kobe is better than LeBron, numbers clearly suggest it's very CLOSE and you were completely talking out of your ass to suggest Kobe was on a different level.

lol, you didn't read where admittedly I exaggerated? 6% when you factor defense attention and all the main aspects of shooting is clearly better though. I also consider those guys far better shooters than both Kobe and Lebron. Especially Wade. Your point?

catch24

07-08-2011, 08:05 PM

Although I am on u'r side...does Kobe really have more mileage than Lebron at the same age....Lebron came in is rookie year and immediately had a huge burden of double teams and was the opposing teams main focus...Kobe had at least 7 seasons without this burdern. Other than that I agree with u 100%

Kobe has been through so many leg/knee surgeries, that I can't say LeBron has similar mileage to Kobe at 32. No way. Plus Kobe has played till June 7 times in his career...

Calabis

07-08-2011, 08:14 PM

Kobe has been through so many leg/knee surgeries, that I can't say LeBron has similar mileage to Kobe at 32. No way. Plus Kobe has played till June 7 times in his career...

My bad I misread, I was comparing Kobe and Lebron at same age, didn't know we were talking about 32 year old Kobe, vs prime Lebron.....not fair for Kobe imo.

Samurai Swoosh

07-08-2011, 08:17 PM

Kobe has been through so many leg/knee surgeries, that I can't say LeBron has similar mileage to Kobe at 32. No way. Plus Kobe has played till June 7 times in his career...
Good point.

But Kobe has been having knee troubles ever since the end of 2003.

:(

LeBron's never had any kind of major injury, let alone to like a load barring ligament like the one in Kobe's right knee

And his athleticism is already almost shot.

I mean hell, I saw Kobe even on that bad knee and hurt ankle go around Trevor Ariza quite a few times off the dribble in the playoffs.

catch24

07-08-2011, 08:20 PM

My bad I misread, I was comparing Kobe and Lebron at same age, didn't know we were talking about 32 year old Kobe, vs prime Lebron.....not fair for Kobe imo.

All good. I can see why you got confused.

Apparently Indian Guy thinks LeBron has just as much mileage as Kobe does at 32, though. :oldlol:

catch24

07-08-2011, 08:23 PM

Good point.

But Kobe has been having knee troubles ever since the end of 2003.

:(

LeBron's never had any kind of major injury, let alone to like a load barring ligament like the one in Kobe's right knee

And his athleticism is already almost shot.

I mean hell, I saw Kobe even on that bad knee and hurt ankle go around Trevor Ariza quite a few times off the dribble in the playoffs.

It's really a testament to how underrated of an athlete he is (well that and how tremendous his will is). Most guys would have called it quits by now, but Kobe is a different animal. Dude is still trying to find ways to recharge/regroup for next season.

KenneBell

07-08-2011, 08:24 PM

Who is IndianGuy trying to kid? He's only making himself look stupid at this point. :oldlol:

Samurai Swoosh

07-08-2011, 08:24 PM

It's really a testament to how underrated of an athlete he is (well that and how tremendous his will is). Most guys would have called it quits by now, but Kobe, even now, is still trying to find ways to recharge/regroup for next season.
Dude is a basketball dork like us ... plain and simple. He loves the game.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 08:38 PM

I also recognize Kobe has played in far more finals than LeBron, with at least 7+ more years on him. Apparently you forgot about Kobe going through 2-3 knee surgeries (including arthroscopic--which can be career ending).

What does any of this have to do with LeBron being no more effective than Kobe at breaking down a defense in the half-court? 32 is not that old, regardless of mileage. Kobe, unlike LeBron, weighs nothing and when feeling well, can still look quick on the floor(against NOH in the playoffs, for example). When was the last time you thought LeBron looked quick and explosive on the basketball court? By that I mean in an entire game, not just the odd dunk here or there.

I consider Dirk, Nash and Ray Allen to be on completely different levels, as shooters, than Kobe

That's convenient :oldlol:. In your previous post you merely considered them better shooters, but after I threw some numbers, you suddenly find them on a completely different level? GTFOH.

CP3 and Durant would be clearly better.

Which is complete BS. Their entire advantage stems from a far higher FT%. So according to your logic, if someone's efficiency is a wash from 10-23+ feet on the basketball court, the one with the higher FT% should be considered the "clearly" or "easily" better shooter? So current Kobe is easily a better shooter than '98 MJ? '03 T-Mac?

I'm not buying your BS. You're just sticking to this so you wouldn't end up looking like a hypocrite for your stance on Kobe-LeBron. Just admit it you were way off about them, man. Because your stupid FT% logic doesn't really carryover to other comparisons, or even the LeBron-Kobe comparison.

N0Skillz

07-08-2011, 08:43 PM

IndianGuy is a troll and everyone here knows that, he doesn't actually read your posts he just makes up bullshit and posts.

catch24

07-08-2011, 08:54 PM

What does any of this have to do with LeBron being no more effective than Kobe at breaking down a defense in the half-court? 32 is not that old, regardless of mileage. Kobe weighs nothing and can still look quick on the floor(against NOH in the playoffs, for example). When was the last time you thought LeBron looked quick and explosive on the basketball court? By that I mean in an entire game, not just the odd dunk here or there.

Plenty. You've clearly never picked up a basketball before.

At 32 Kobe is slower, less athletic and can't beat double teams like LeBron can in the half court. You're selling your boi short here :oldlol:

That's convenient :oldlol:. In your previous post you merely considered them better shooters, but after I threw some numbers, you suddenly find them on a completely different level? GTFOH.

How is that convenient? Again, I've been on record saying those guys were better shooters - much/clearly, or on another level is irrelevant. We weren't talking about those guys in the first place so I didn't care to quantify them by their %'s.

Which is complete BS. Their entire advantage stems from a far higher FT%. So according to your logic, if someone's efficiency is a wash from 10-23+ feet on the basketball court, the one with the higher FT% should be considered the "clearly" or "easily" better shooter? So current Kobe is easily a better shooter than '98 MJ? '03 T-Mac?

BS to you. But to most of us in reality, it's pretty much dead-on. You're just delusional, kiddo. Do you have Jordan and TMACs percentages from mid-to-longrange? The guys you listed (KD, CP3, Dirk and Nash) are all great all-around shooters. Not sure why '98 MJ and Tmac in 2003 is relevant when I don't have numbers to back my opinion.

I'm not buying your BS. You're just sticking to this so you wouldn't end up looking like a hypocrite for your stance on Kobe-LeBron. Just admit it you were way off about them, man. Because your stupid FT% logic doesn't really carryover to other comparisons, or even the LeBron-Kobe comparison.

You don't have to buy anything I say. Why should I take someone who believes LeBron has similar and/or equal mileage to Kobe, seriously?

Right, I look like a hypocrite. Again, where did I retract my post saying Kobe is easily better than LeBron as a shooter? Have I overstated he was on another level? Yeah...but again, I've admitted this. You're just an f'ing nutjob is all.

chazzy

07-08-2011, 08:58 PM

Even if Lebron doesn't attack defenses as well as Kobe (lol) it's not like every team has already adjusted to this "new" Lebron and now force him to beat them off the dribble the way they do with Kobe. It's a joke to act like their jumpers get defended equally.

BlueandGold

07-08-2011, 09:03 PM

Another dunk from Kobe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srjl0UXQTYs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
LOL KOBE DOESNT LIKE LOSING.

Guy is just a natural winner.

what's really funny is trying to cherry pick stats to compare lebron's best shooting season ever to kobe's worst. even so, considering clutchness, free throws and defense played on each, kobe easily comes out on top. it's so obvious that if you were to take a poll of all the nba players in the league, i bet 99% (probably 100%) would vote for kobe clearly being the better shooter. yet here you are trying to argue what's obvious to anyone that plays the game. at least we all know where you two lebron homers stand, or maybe i should say sit.
Indian guy should really be called Indian Kid.

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 10:00 PM

At 32 Kobe is slower, less athletic and can't beat double teams like LeBron can in the half court.

You're letting LeBron's age cloud reality. What you described above isn't really happening on the basketball court. LeBron, especially in his off-the-dribble game, is unrecognizable from the player he once was. Nobody in the league is playing him for the drive first. Nobody. Watch any game-highlights from this season on YT, and try to find me 3-5 clips where LeBron's man isn't tightly guarding him.

How is that convenient? Again, I've been on record saying those guys were better shooters - much/clearly, or on another level is irrelevant.

Hardly irrelevant when you have been so vehement in describing Kobe's supposed superiority to LeBron throughout this thread, yet so tame in announcing other shooters'(who by your logic are MUCH better) superiority to Kobe. Something didn't add up, yet as soon as I posted some numbers, you went back to your old hyperbola. All for the sake of not looking like a hypocrite.

You're just delusional, kiddo.

Nah, that would be the person who said Kobe's on a different level than LeBron as a shooter when their numbers are a wash.

Do you have Jordan and TMACs percentages from mid-to-longrange?

I picked '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac because despite managing to be GREAT shooters, their FT% hung around mid to high 70's those seasons. Now, I don't have their percentages from 10-23 feet, but judging by their style of play and FG% for those seasons, doesn't take a genius to surmise their numbers likely mirrored another similar player in Kobe. So, who's the better shooter among '98 MJ, '03 T-Mac and 07-11 Kobe? Hard to pick, right? But if we go by your ****ed up logic, one would just look at Kobe's much better FT% and deem him the far/clearly/easily better shooter. Would you agree with that conclusion? You better, because that's your entire argument in Kobe being 'easily' better than LeBron.

Again, where did I retract my post saying Kobe is easily better than LeBron as a shooter?

That's the problem, you should. The numbers simply DO NOT support your claim of Kobe being "easily" better than 10-11 LeBron, all because of FT%. By your logic, players like Durant and CP3 are easily >>>> Kobe too, yet you'd never agree to that if you didn't have to maintain a front about your BS Kobe>>>>>>LeBron argument to begin with.

tpols

07-08-2011, 10:30 PM

By your logic, players like Durant and CP3 are easily >>>> Kobe too, yet you'd never agree to that if you didn't have to maintain a front about your BS Kobe>>>>>>LeBron argument to begin with.
I dont get this part.. Durant is one of the most incredible shooters to ever step onto a basketball court. His game is 99% shooting and he's pinpoint with it. Quick release. Amazing length. Great accuracy. Whats your point? He is a signifigantly better shooter than Kobe[although Kobe beats him in about every other facet there is offensively].

And Chris Paul doesn't score on near the same volume nor does he command the same defensive attention for his shooting[because he is a bigger threat to playmake/penetrate]as compared to Kobe. So that comparison doesn't make sense.

catch24

07-08-2011, 10:30 PM

Hardly irrelevant when you have been so vehement in describing Kobe's supposed superiority to LeBron throughout this thread, yet so tame in announcing other shooters'(who by your logic are MUCH better) superiority to Kobe. Something didn't add up, yet as soon as I posted some numbers, you went back to your old hyperbola. All for the sake of not looking like a hypocrite.

Nice. Taking little snippets of my post and completely taken them out of context. How typical of you.

First of all, they're irrelevant because we are discussing LeBron and Kobe, not Durant, CP3 , Nash or Dirk. I never got into specifics with them - and why should I? lol at thinking I should have clarified who's "clearly better" and on "another level". Again, they have nothing to do with the debate. But yes, they're all superior all-around shooters--and yes, you have to take into account volume for some (or clearly better -- just for you, kid).

Nah, that would be the person who said Kobe's on a different level than LeBron as a shooter when their numbers are a wash.

Still bringing up garbage I addressed...

Yes, I was exaggerating. Deal with it.

I picked '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac because despite managing to be GREAT shooters, their FT% hung around mid to high 70's those seasons. Now, I don't have their percentages from 10-23 feet, but judging by their style of play and FG% for those seasons, doesn't take a genius to surmise their numbers likely mirrored another similar player in Kobe. So, who's the better shooter among '98 MJ, '03 T-Mac and 07-11 Kobe? Hard to pick, right? But if we go by your ****ed up logic, one would just look at Kobe's much better FT% and deem him the far/clearly/easily better shooter. Would you agree with that conclusion? You better, because that's your entire argument in Kobe being 'easily' better than LeBron.

Interesting. Well I think Dantley and Gervin, in their primes, were better from midrange than pre-90's Jordan. Without the evidence (numbers); however, I really can't back up my opinion now, can I? Whether it takes a genius or not to summarize their game play and claim they were better isn't something I'm interested in. I go by reality; the numbers and evidence point to Kobe being an all-around better shooter than LeBron.

Try again.

catch24

07-08-2011, 10:43 PM

IndianGuy - If you concede LeBron, at 26, has the same mileage as Kobe does at 32 then this debate is over.

Simple answer: Yes or no?

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 11:06 PM

Whether it takes a genius or not to summarize their game play and claim they were better isn't something I'm interested in.

Let's just assume for argument's sake that their numbers from 10-23 feet are similar(which they likely were), now, knowing what you do about MJ and T-Mac, would you still deem Kobe a much better shooter than those 2 just because of FT%? Clearly, you wouldn't.

and evidence point to Kobe being an all-around better shooter than LeBron.

There you go! Finally got you to the point where you no longer used on a different level or easily better or any of that hyperbolic garbage. This I can live with. It's definitely arguable whether 10-11 Kobe is a better shooter than 10-11 LeBron, but I certainly wouldn't hold it against someone if they thought he was slightly better, as long as they admitted Heat-LeBron matches up fairly well against all versions of Kobe.

IndianGuy - If you concede LeBron, at 26, has the same mileage as Kobe does at 32 then this debate is over.

Where's this mileage talk even coming from? I sure as hell didn't talk about it. The reason I believe LeBron and Kobe are equivalent at breaking down a defense today is because of LeBron's weight - he simply got too damn big, and it completely took away his old explosiveness. He just struggles to beat players off the dribble now. That's the reason why, aside from being a solid shooter now, he's guarded no differently than Kobe - NOBODY fears LeBron blowing past them, because he can't.

DMAVS41

07-08-2011, 11:30 PM

Let's just assume for argument's sake that their numbers from 10-23 feet are similar(which they likely were), now, knowing what you do about MJ and T-Mac, would you still deem Kobe a much better shooter than those 2 just because of FT%? Clearly, you wouldn't.

There you go! Finally got you to the point where you no longer used on a different level or easily better or any of that hyperbolic garbage. This I can live with. It's definitely arguable whether 10-11 Kobe is a better shooter than 10-11 LeBron, but I certainly wouldn't hold it against someone if they thought he was slightly better, as long as they admitted Heat-LeBron matches up fairly well against all versions of Kobe.

Where's this mileage talk even coming from? I sure as hell didn't talk about it. The reason I believe LeBron and Kobe are equivalent at breaking down a defense today is because of LeBron's weight - he simply got too damn big, and it completely took away his old explosiveness. He just struggles to beat players off the dribble now. That's the reason why, aside from being a solid shooter now, he's guarded no differently than Kobe - NOBODY fears LeBron blowing past them, because he can't.

This is simply not true. Kobe is defended much differently than Lebron. Are you serious?

Indian guy

07-08-2011, 11:31 PM

This is simply not true. Kobe is defended much differently than Lebron. Are you serious?

How is Kobe defended any differently than LeBron 1-on-1?

N0Skillz

07-08-2011, 11:33 PM

How is Kobe defended any differently than LeBron 1-on-1?

Kobe is double teamed more often and he faces his double teams farther out then Lebron. Also Lebron is always given more space

DMAVS41

07-08-2011, 11:35 PM

How is Kobe defended any differently than LeBron 1-on-1?

1 on 1? Well, it depends.

If its on the wing post? Defenders would rather have Lebron shoot than drive....while they would rather have Kobe drive than shoot.

Just making a move off the dribble one on one? Yea, they actually started to get defended more similarly because Lebron lost a little.

However, Lebron never consistently beat guys off the dribble. It was always on a pick and roll set or in transition or a secondary break.

You go way too far about Lebron's lack of athleticism now and give Kobe way too much credit.

Trust me, the last thing any coach wants to see is Kobe getting open jumpers now. They want him driving to the basket and finishing. With Lebron? Yes, its changed a little, but teams still would rather see him shooting than attacking.

That is the difference.

branslowski

07-08-2011, 11:36 PM

Kobe is double teamed more often and he faces his double teams farther out then Lebron. Also Lebron is always given more space

No, both are doubled alot....But LeBron's defender's tend to give him more space to force a jumper and try and stop the drive, while Kobe is defended close so he doesn't get hot from the perimeter....Not sure what Indian Kid is talking about..

catch24

07-08-2011, 11:58 PM

There you go! Finally got you to the point where you no longer used blah blah blah

What? I still think Kobe is easily a better shooter based on their shooting from all aspects of the floor.

The reason I brought up mileage is because you were talking about how LeBron can't break down defenses better than Kobe from the half court - and you based it off athleticism. So, again... do you concede current LeBron has the same mileage as 32-year-old Kobe? Please respond accordingly.

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 12:15 AM

What? I still think Kobe is easily a better shooter based on their shooting from all aspects of the floor.

:facepalm

Your entire argument for Kobe>>>LeBron is based on FT%, so basically, if 2 players are equivalent shooters outside of 10+ feet, but 1 of them has a higher FT%, then he easily becomes a better shooter according to your messed up logic. In other words, Kobe is easily a better shooter than '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac. Problem is, you don't believe any of this, but have to maintain the stupid front to hold on to your dire Kobe>>>LeBron agenda. So let's just move on already....

The reason I brought up mileage is because you were talking about how LeBron can't break down defenses better than Kobe from the half court - and you based it off athleticism. So, again... do you concede current LeBron has the same mileage as 32-year-old Kobe? Please respond accordingly.

What the....? Again with the mileage?!? Didn't I clearly state in my previous post that LeBron's athletic regression has to do with his extreme weight gain? It's true, his body has gone through more than any 26 year old's in NBA history, but considering he seemed great as ever even as recently as last season, it just doesn't make sense for him to lose so much within one offseason. So I'm blaming his humongous size for the regression. The man just got too big.

eliteballer

07-09-2011, 12:17 AM

Indian Guy is completely delusional:oldlol:

Kobe's ability to make pull-up jumpers makes him INFINTELY more difficult to guard

LeBron needs screens and time to set up his shot.

KenneBell

07-09-2011, 12:29 AM

What the....? Again with the mileage?!? Didn't I clearly state in my previous post that LeBron's athletic regression has to do with his extreme weight gain? It's true, his body has gone through more than any 26 year old's in NBA history, but considering he seemed great as ever even as recently as last season, it just doesn't make sense for him to lose so much within one offseason. So I'm blaming his humongous size for the regression. The man just got too big.
Now his weight gain is extreme? :roll:

macpierce

07-09-2011, 12:31 AM

this thread needs to be bookmarked so we can recount how much of an idiot indian guy is.......well i think most of us already knew but when you have GINOBBLI defending kobe..........then you know youre in the wrong :oldlol:

DMAVS41

07-09-2011, 12:32 AM

:facepalm

Your entire argument for Kobe>>>LeBron is based on FT%, so basically, if 2 players are equivalent shooters outside of 10+ feet, but 1 of them has a higher FT%, then he easily becomes a better shooter according to your messed up logic. In other words, Kobe is easily a better shooter than '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac. Problem is, you don't believe any of this, but have to maintain the stupid front to hold on to your dire Kobe>>>LeBron agenda. So let's just move on already....

What the....? Again with the mileage?!? Didn't I clearly state in my previous post that LeBron's athletic regression has to do with his extreme weight gain? It's true, his body has gone through more than any 26 year old's in NBA history, but considering he seemed great as ever even as recently as last season, it just doesn't make sense for him to lose so much within one offseason. So I'm blaming his humongous size for the regression. The man just got too big.

Most of this is true.

And I might be missing the point of the debate, but the reason Lebron's shooting percentages are similar to Kobe's is that he's given more space to shoot. He's defended differently. You keep acting like ft shooting isn't important....it is. Its hardly the end all be all, but Kobe does shoot 7% better than Lebron at the stripe (last year). That matters. The one area where they face the same defense (no defense), Kobe was significantly better than Lebron.

If Kobe was defended more like Lebron, he'd have even better shooting percentages.

This isn't Kobe vs Lebron...right? Its about who the better shooter is....all things being equal.

I really don't see how Lebron is equal to Kobe as a shooter.

theaussieguy

07-09-2011, 12:43 AM

this is where stats just become silly to look at. Is Kobe not famous for his 30+ footers on a consistent basis? Has he not given the game some of the greatest scoring and in particular shooting performances of all time? Does he not hold the record for nine consecutive 3's in a reg. season game (that is 9 in a frikkin row without missing in one game!!)

Stats this stats that hurr durrrr....

Kobe is a better shooter. Period.

catch24

07-09-2011, 12:48 AM

:facepalm

Your entire argument for Kobe>>>LeBron is based on FT%, so basically, if 2 players are equivalent shooters outside of 10+ feet, but 1 of them has a higher FT%, then he easily becomes a better shooter according to your messed up logic. In other words, Kobe is easily a better shooter than '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac. Problem is, you don't believe any of this, but have to maintain the stupid front to hold on to your dire Kobe>>>LeBron agenda. So let's just move on already....

Wrong. Re-read the thread. Given how they're defended while everything else evens out, FT shooting is the deciding factor, and Kobe wins... with ease.

And no, don't put words in my mouth. You and I don't know what '98 MJ and T-Mac shot from the perimeter (both mid and long range) so they're irrelevant. Whether you watched them consistently or not, you just can't say with certainty they were equal or better shooters.

What the....? Again with the mileage?!? Didn't I clearly state in my previous post that LeBron's athletic regression has to do with his extreme weight gain? It's true, his body has gone through more than any 26 year old's in NBA history, but considering he seemed great as ever even as recently as last season, it just doesn't make sense for him to lose so much within one offseason. So I'm blaming his humongous size for the regression. The man just got too big.

Right, but my point is Kobe's MILEAGE is more extensive. Do you deny this? Yes or no?

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 12:57 AM

And no, don't put words in my mouth. You and I don't know what '98 MJ and T-Mac shot from the perimeter (both mid and long range) so they're irrelevant.

The fact that you're not even willing to touch a hypothetical scenario is all I need to know. You're well aware of how foolish your FT%-fixation looks, and deeming Kobe easily >>>> MJ/T-Mac based on it would look awful, thus your refusal to get into this comparison.

Right, but my point is Kobe's MILEAGE is more extensive.

Why is this relevant? Who cares what Kobe's mileage is? It has nothing to do with LeBron's regression and his current ability to break his man down being no better than Kobe's.

catch24

07-09-2011, 01:00 AM

The fact that you're not even willing to touch a hypothetical scenario is all I need to know. You're well aware of how foolish your FT%-fixation looks, and deeming Kobe easily >>>> MJ/T-Mac based on it would look awful, thus your refusal to get into this comparison.

The fact you latch onto a hypothetical scenario shows how deluded you are.

But yeah, lets use guys we have no data for to debate. Makes total sense...

Why is this relevant? Who cares what Kobe's mileage is? It has nothing to do with LeBron's regression and his current ability to break his man down being no better than Kobe's.

Answer the question.

Haymaker

07-09-2011, 01:20 AM

He looked very slow and looks like he struggled to get off the floor.

IGOTGAME

07-09-2011, 01:45 AM

1 on 1? Well, it depends.

If its on the wing post? Defenders would rather have Lebron shoot than drive....while they would rather have Kobe drive than shoot.

Just making a move off the dribble one on one? Yea, they actually started to get defended more similarly because Lebron lost a little.

However, Lebron never consistently beat guys off the dribble. It was always on a pick and roll set or in transition or a secondary break.

You go way too far about Lebron's lack of athleticism now and give Kobe way too much credit.

Trust me, the last thing any coach wants to see is Kobe getting open jumpers now. They want him driving to the basket and finishing. With Lebron? Yes, its changed a little, but teams still would rather see him shooting than attacking.

That is the difference.

been trying to tell this guy that for some time. Lebron one v. one with a live dribble looking to score has never been his strong suit.

catch24

07-09-2011, 02:35 AM

Didn't think IG would answer; pretty much defeats his entire argument. He'd rather debate pointless equivocal crap than stick to the original premise.

DCL

07-09-2011, 04:12 AM

so what's so special about it?? it's a dunk that i'd estimate 90% of black nba players 6'4" or above can do.

thejumpa

07-09-2011, 04:17 AM

so what's so special about it?? it's a dunk that i'd estimate 90% of black nba players 6'4" or above can do.

:oldlol:

People keep mentioning that he's 32 and played 40k minutes but shit...he keeps himself in shape and is 6'6 with long ass arms. Plus, it was a dunk off a bounce. That alone makes it less impressive than it really is.

eliteballer

07-09-2011, 04:49 AM

Much better angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y3LDFhZYNQw#at=17

Scholar

07-09-2011, 05:06 AM

I'm just glad Kobe didn't dunk on a little kid & act hard.
That was a nice dunk for someone who is pushing into his mid-30's. Hell, I can't even dunk so that was an impressive dunk on any level.

KenneBell

07-09-2011, 11:29 AM

Matt barnes! :oldlol:

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 01:20 PM

The fact you latch onto a hypothetical scenario shows how deluded you are.

What? This hypothetical scenario has everything to do with what we've been discussing so far, and your refusal to answer it pretty much exposes your entire argument for Kobe >>> LeBron.

Answer the question.

:oldlol:

This is an honest question, what purpose would my answer serve? What does Kobe's mileage have anything to do with what we've been talking about?

catch24

07-09-2011, 01:35 PM

What? This hypothetical scenario has everything to do with what we've been discussing so far, and your refusal to answer it pretty much exposes your entire argument for Kobe >>> LeBron.

Uhhh, LMAO? It has nothing to do with what we've discussed because you nor I can give an accurate opinion without the data we have available for current Kobe/LeBron.

So no, it doesn't. Let me in on what you're smoking, pronto.

This is an honest question, what purpose would my answer serve? What does Kobe's mileage have anything to do with what we've been talking about?

Honest to goodness. It's perfectly relevant, and I'll tell you why after you answer. Again, does Kobe at 32 have more mileage than LeBron at 26? Yes or no?

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 01:42 PM

It has nothing to do with what we've discussed because you nor I can give an accurate opinion without the data we have available for current Kobe/LeBron.

That's why it's called HYPOTHETICAL, genius. Assume for argument's sake that these 3 great shooters have equivalent numbers from 10-23 feet. Now, would you still deem Kobe the far better shooter based on his FT%? Considering that's your entire argument for Kobe "easily" being better than LeBron, this hypothetical becomes completely relevant given our discussion. So just answer the question, you're only exposing yourself by not doing so.

It's perfectly relevant, and I'll tell you why after you answer.

:oldlol:

Tell me why it's relevant first.

catch24

07-09-2011, 01:51 PM

That's why it's called HYPOTHETICAL, genius. Assume for argument's sake that these 3 great shooters have equivalent numbers from 10-23 feet. Now, would you still deem Kobe the far better shooter based on his FT%? Considering that's your entire argument for Kobe "easily" being better than LeBron, this hypothetical becomes completely relevant given our discussion. So just answer the question, you're only exposing yourself by not doing so.

It's almost stupefying how bad your posts have been this thread.

Everyone here, who has posted, knows what a hypothetical is - the example which included MJ in '98 and Tmac in '03 was one. Not sure if you've been reading or just skimming through posts only to get another one of your silly replies in, but I've already said I don't wanna go off a "hypothetical". My opinion, like yours, just isn't taken seriously without evidence. Until you come up with Tmac and Jordan's shooting charts those years, they're irrelevant to the discussion.

Find your brain.

Tell me why it's relevant first.

I've answered all your questions. Stop being such a p*ssy and answer the question.

L8kersfan222

07-09-2011, 01:52 PM

Indian guy getting out debated again SMH :facepalm

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 02:02 PM

Not sure if you've been reading or just skimming through posts just to get another one of your silly replies in, but I've already said I don't wanna go off a "hypothetical".

"I don't want to" is not an adequate response. Half the threads on this board are hypothetical scenarios. I see quite a few posts from you in the Replace MJ with Kobe thread, so clearly you don't have an issue with making assumptions. Yet do so in this thread because it clearly doesn't serve your purpose. You're pussying out because you know you'd look like an idiot for easily picking Kobe over 2 great shooters just because of FT%.

Stop being such a p*ssy and answer the question.

Don't see the point in answering a question that couldn't be less relevant to the topic.

catch24

07-09-2011, 02:08 PM

"I don't want to" is not an adequate response. Half the threads on this board are hypothetical scenarios. I see quite a few posts from you in the Replace MJ with Kobe thread, so clearly you don't have an issue with making assumptions. Yet do so in this thread because it clearly doesn't serve your purpose. You're pussying out because you know you'd look like an idiot for easily picking Kobe over 2 great shooters just because of FT%.

Going off a hypothetical would defeat the purpose of the debate. We've been listing their shooting %'s from the field. Why entertain something we simply have no evidence for? Sorry if I don't find that productive.

Clearly you live in a fantasy world.

Don't see the point in answering a question that couldn't be less relevant to the topic.

You'd be surprised how relevant it is if you're man enough to answer. Man up, p*ssy boi.

Fatal9

07-09-2011, 02:11 PM

some one wanna give me cliffs on this debate...don't want to read 10 pages

kaiiu

07-09-2011, 02:13 PM

some one wanna give me cliffs on this debate...don't want to read 10 pages
Indian Guy trying to prove why Lebron is a better shooter than Kobe ever was.

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 02:20 PM

Going off a hypothetical would defeat the purpose of the debate. We've been listing their shooting %'s from the field.

Except your initial stance on Kobe >>>> LeBron had nothing to do with shooting percentages. You simply perceived LeBron to be a bad shooter and that's how you drew your incorrect conclusion. Once I clued you in to some facts, you latched on to the bogus FT% stat because you were grasping at straws and needed something, anything, to back-up you original stance. So let's stop pretending you're some big numbers guy.

Why entertain something we simply have no evidence for?

We are looking at 3 good shooters with a similar FG% and playing styles. It's not a stretch at all to assume their efficiencies from the perimeter were very similar, otherwise, they wouldn't have the same FG%. And hey, this is where the HYPOTHETICAL comes in, and we know how much you love assumptions(MJ/Kobe thread), so let's just assume their efficiencies from 10-23 feet were equivalent, would you still deem Kobe the far better shooter based on FT%? Just stop being a BITCH and answer the question. You're completely exposing yourself by not doing so. It just shows you're well aware of how idiotic your Kobe>>>>>>LeBron argument looks by not answering it.

You'd be surprised how relevant it is if you're man enough to answer.

Why don't you man up and actually explain why something that has NOTHING to do with the topic is somehow relevant? It's your question, dumbass. Up to you to explain why I should answer it.

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 02:24 PM

some one wanna give me cliffs on this debate...don't want to read 10 pages

Catch24 thinks Kobe is a wayyyyyy better shooter than LeBron today. When I posted some stats indicating otherwise, he latched onto Kobe's better FT% and believes that's what "easily" makes him the much better shooter. So I gave an example of guys like '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac who had average FT percentages, then asked catch24 whether he considers Kobe "easily" better than those guys too. And being the chicken he is, he refuses to answer it in order to not expose himself on the whole Kobe/LeBron issue.

catch24

07-09-2011, 02:26 PM

Except your initial stance on Kobe >>>> LeBron had nothing to do with shooting percentages.

And I had to use them to show your stupid ass why Kobe clearly is a better shooter. You and that other LeBron stan made this into a debate in the first place. Use your brain.

We are looking at 3 good shooters with a similar FG% and playing

Shot selection definitely matters. The fact you continue wanting to turn a statistical debate into a hypothetical shows how much of a retard you are.

Come back to reality, "wee one".

It's your question,

So answer it. Stop being such a va-jj and answer the question. Does Kobe have more mileage than LeBron?

catch24

07-09-2011, 02:32 PM

Do we have shot charts/data for '98 MJ and '03 Tmac? Nope, didn't think so. The entire debate has been predicated off of hoopdata's percentages.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that make them irrelevant to the discussion?

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 02:37 PM

And I had to use them to show your stupid ass why Kobe clearly is a better shooter.

Yeah, you definitely showed me by latching onto Kobe's FT% :rolleyes:

Shot selection definitely matters. The fact you continue wanting to turn a statistical debate into a hypothetical shows how much of a retard you are.

Any hypothetical sports debate concerns stats. We all make assumptions, and the one in this case isn't even a big one. Yes, shot selection matters, and considering MJ/T-Mac/Kobe all had similar percentages and played a similar style, it's not a leap to assume their numbers were roughly the same from 10-23 feet. All you have to do now is answer whether you would still consider Kobe easily better than them because of FT%. Stop being a *****. No shame in admitting you were wrong about Kobe/LeBron.

Does Kobe have more mileage than LeBron?

:oldlol:

You're not getting anything until you explain the relevance of this question.

catch24

07-09-2011, 02:48 PM

Yeah, you definitely showed me by latching onto Kobe's FT% :rolleyes:

Becuase all other aspects pretty much even out, even though Kobe has a broader volume. Never mind the fact defenses play them differently, where one is strictly a jump shooter while the other isn't.

Any hypothetical sports debate concerns stats. We all make assumptions, and the one in this case isn't even a big one. Yes, shot selection matters, and considering MJ/T-Mac/Kobe all had similar percentages and played a similar style, it's not a leap to assume their numbers were roughly the same from 10-23 feet. All you have to do now is answer whether you would still consider Kobe easily better than them because of FT%. Stop being a *****. No shame in admitting you were wrong about Kobe/LeBron.

:oldlol: at this idiot

I've already made an assumption (Gervin/Dantley were better midrange shooters than pre-90's Jordan) - again, though... What good is that opinion if I can't back it up? This isn't an MJ/Kobe swap players on both teams thread where most answers are hypothetical. Saying Kobe is a better shooter than LeBron and having evidence to the back it up is an entirely different thing. Again, Kobe > LeBron as a shooter clearly. Deal with it, clown.

You're not getting anything until you explain the relevance of this question.

Someone enjoys getting spoon fed. It's RELEVANT to the discussion because you believe LeBron can beat double teams off the dribble no better than Kobe at this stage. Nothing supports this. Clearly, like you have all season, base LeBron's regression off his athleticism, or lack there of.

You happy you little c*nt? Now answer the question.

Svendiggity

07-09-2011, 02:56 PM

Catch24 thinks Kobe is a wayyyyyy better shooter than LeBron today. When I posted some stats indicating otherwise, he latched onto Kobe's better FT% and believes that's what "easily" makes him the much better shooter. So I gave an example of guys like '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac who had average FT percentages, then asked catch24 whether he considers Kobe "easily" better than those guys too. And being the chicken he is, he refuses to answer it in order to not expose himself on the whole Kobe/LeBron issue.

none of those stats matter because your boy was afraid to take jumpers in the finals. Kobe would never hesitate to shoot the ball.

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 03:44 PM

Becuase all other aspects pretty much even out

Which is why it's downright idiotic to deem Kobe "easily" or "far" better based on just FT%.

even though Kobe has a broader volume.

Yeah, by 4% from 10-23 feet. Completely insignificant.

Never mind the fact defenses play them differently

Not this crap again. Nobody's guarding Kobe & LeBron any differently 1-on-1 today. Nobody.

I've already made an assumption (Gervin/Dantley were better midrange shooters than pre-90's Jordan)

But you're not doing it based on FT%, so it's not relevant. When actually given the choice of doing so in the MJ/T-Mac vs. Kobe comparison, you chickened out.

It's RELEVANT to the discussion because you believe LeBron can beat double teams off the dribble no better than Kobe at this stage. Nothing supports this.

WTF? But what does this have ANYTHING to do with their shooting ability? Or you deeming Kobe far better than LeBron simply based on FT%? This IS what we're discussing, so what does Kobe's mileage having anything to do with this?

And yes, every ****ing game LeBron's played over the past season supports LeBron's inability to break down double teams or even single coverage any better than Kobe's. He's still better a finisher, but not a better penetrater.

Now answer the question.

It's still not relevant to the discussion. I didn't say LeBron's athletic regression had something to do with his mileage, so Kobe's is still not relevant.

catch24

07-09-2011, 03:55 PM

Which is why it's downright idiotic to deem Kobe "easily" or "far" better based on just FT%.

No, it's not. It evens out as far as percentages go. But anyone who watches the game and doesn't have a bias like your retarded ass, realizes they're defended differently and volume of jumpshots have to be used with context. For this season and their entire careers.

Yeah, by 4% from 10-23 feet. Completely insignificant.

Nope, significant. a 1.5% difference is about 80+ shots a season. Find your brain, dumbass.

Not this crap again. Nobody's guarding Kobe & LeBron any differently 1-on-1 today. Nobody.

Yes they are. Watch the games.

But you're not doing it based on FT%, so it's not relevant. When actually given the choice of doing so in the MJ/T-Mac vs. Kobe comparison, you chickened out.

Of course it's relevant. We don't have their exact percentages from every aspect of the floor, so, I can't just use FT%.

WTF? But what does this have ANYTHING to do with their shooting ability? Or you deeming Kobe far better than LeBron simply based on FT%? This IS what we're discussing, so what does Kobe's mileage having anything to do with this?

More volume, defensive attention while FT% breaks the statistical tie. More often than not, a better FT shooter (midrange) is a better shooter, period. Find your brain.

And yes, every ****ing game LeBron's played over the past season supports LeBron's inability to break down double teams or even single coverage any better than Kobe's. He's still better a finisher, but not a better penetrater.

Wrong again. Which is why I asked you to answer the question I presented. You base this off athleticism - so again, answer the question.

Stop being such a p*ssy.

It's still not relevant to the discussion. I didn't say LeBron's athletic regression had something to do with his mileage, so Kobe's is still not relevant.

Then what does it have to do with? How do you lose what you once had, idiot?

catch24

07-09-2011, 04:00 PM

Lets not forget Indian-Idiot posted this a few weeks ago

A quick first step prevents him from getting past guys from a STANDSTILL, not with a live dribble from the top of the key. LeBron can blow past anyone in that scenario.

But yeah, Kobe has this luxury? Riiiiiiight

F*cking clown this guy is.

chazzy

07-09-2011, 04:02 PM

I admire IG's efforts to try to level ALL the variables.

"Kobe takes more shots so volume should be considered" - IT'S ABOUT THE % OF THEIR TOTAL SHOTS NOT HOW MANY THEY TAKE! .... irrelevant

"Kobe is defended more tightly than Lebron" - NO LEBRON IS WORSE AT BREAKING DOWN DEFENSES SO HE GETS DEFENDED THE SAME! - which is just fukin lol-worthy and doesn't deserve a rebuttal

Samurai Swoosh

07-09-2011, 04:04 PM

IG is a Bulls fan.

LA_Showtime

07-09-2011, 04:10 PM

IG is a Bulls fan.

He's about as much of a Bulls fan as DMavs is a Mavericks fan/Gyno is a Spurs fan.

catch24

07-09-2011, 04:15 PM

IG is a Bulls fan.

Almost as believable as the non-difference in airspace Kobe and LeBron get with their jumpshots :oldlol:

Fatal9

07-09-2011, 04:15 PM

Wasn't Jordan's FT% in '98 hurt by some injury on his shooting hand? Normally he was an 83-85% shooter, using one season doesn't mean anything when the career % indicates otherwise. FT% normally is a very good indicator of midrange ability.

If LeBron has a better shooting % from certain spots on the floor, it's because the defense WANTS him to shoot those shots, instead of breaking down the defense (plus around the league it's seen as his weak spot), so they literally offer him good looks. His jumpshot has been good since '09 season but lol @ thinking he's as good a shooter as Kobe. He's not defended like Kobe is on midrange shots, nor does he take the type of shots Kobe does on a regular basis. LeBron looks like a scrub when teams play zone and he's forced to catch and shoot.

Samurai Swoosh

07-09-2011, 04:18 PM

Almost as believable as the non-difference in airspace Kobe and LeBron get with their jumpshots :oldlol:
I repeat ... IG is a Bulls fan.

I'm just trying to convince you guys of what we all know to be true.

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 05:02 PM

No, it's not. It evens out as far as percentages go.

It evens out as far as acual NUMBERS go, but Kobe's supposedly guarded SOOOO differently that we should ignore all numbers, and instantly regard him as far better than LeBron? GTFOH. Why don't you just suck it up and admit that whatever the difference between Kobe and LeBron is, it's pretty minimal?

Nope, significant. a 1.5% difference is about 80+ shots a season.

A difference of 1 extra FGA per game is meaningless. Bottom line is this, when Kobe and LeBron take the same amount of shots, Kobe only ends up taking 4.5% more shots from 10-23 feet than LeBron. In other words, if both average 20 FGA in a season, Kobe will end up attempting only 1 more shot from 10-23 feet than LeBron. That's NOTHING.

Watch the games.

Oh I absolutely do watch the games. You're welcome to find me clips of team's supposedly guarding LeBron differently than Kobe this past season. Go ahead.

Of course it's relevant. We don't have their exact percentages from every aspect of the floor, so, I can't just use FT%.

You're such a coward that you couldn't even take an educated assumption to apply the same logic to MJ/T-Mac/Kobe that you did to Kobe/LeBron. A coward afraid of being exposed.

a better FT shooter (midrange) is a better shooter, period.

I'm willing to agree with this, as long as it's established that FT% alone doesn't make a player "way", "far" or "easily" better than someone else.

You base this off athleticism

I blame LeBron's athletic regression on his size, not on mileage. So no, Kobe's mileage is not relevant here. Get the **** over this already. You're going nowhere.

Then what does it have to do with?

His weight gain, dumbass. His weight gain. How many ****ing times do I have to tell you this?

Indian guy

07-09-2011, 05:04 PM

Lets not forget Indian-Idiot posted this a few weeks ago

Uhh, way to conveniently ignore I was talking about pre-Heat LeBron. Post the link to that thread. You'll see that I was talking about 03-10 LeBron, who could indeed face up and blow past anyone from the top of the key with a live dribble. He doesn't possess that ability anymore.

IGOTGAME

07-09-2011, 05:21 PM

Uhh, way to conveniently ignore I was talking about pre-Heat LeBron. Post the link to that thread. You'll see that I was talking about 03-10 LeBron, who could indeed face up and blow past anyone from the top of the key with a live dribble. He doesn't possess that ability anymore.

just isn't true. I was pointing that out in game threads throughout Bron's time in Cleveland. One on one off a live dribble he was never anything special.

Samurai Swoosh

07-09-2011, 05:24 PM

just isn't true. I was pointing that out in game threads throughout Bron's time in Cleveland. One on one off a live dribble he was never anything special.
Yes, he was ...

catch24

07-09-2011, 05:25 PM

It evens out as far as acual NUMBERS go, but Kobe's supposedly guarded SOOOO differently

It's not a matter of "supposedly"... It's reality. Kobe doesn't get the same amount of air space as LeBron when it pertains to basic-shooting.

You're too much of an idiot to continue this back and forth.

A difference of 1 extra FGA per game is meaningless. Bottom line is this, when Kobe and LeBron take the same amount of shots, Kobe only ends up taking 4.5% more shots from 10-23 feet than LeBron. In other words, if both average 20 FGA in a season, Kobe will end up attempting only 1 more shot from 10-23 feet than LeBron. That's NOTHING.

No, it's not. Again 1.5 FGA more is approximately 80 more shots a season... Deal with reality. 4.5% more shots from 10-23 feet is not "only". It's very significant as I've pointed out. Are you honestly this stupid to ignore a 4.5% difference over the course of an 82 game season?

:roll:

Oh I absolutely do watch the games.

It's not about finding clips dummy. It's what it is. You're the only one who believes your BS; what does that tell you?

You're such a coward that you couldn't even take an educated assumption to apply the same logic to MJ/T-Mac/Kobe that you did to Kobe/LeBron. A coward afraid of being exposed.

And you're a tiny dumpster diver who's brain is half passed dead. A hypothetical scenario is irrelevant considering we don't have accurate (or any) data for their actual shooting %'s. It's not the same thing as a Kobe/LeBron comparison where we do have the data, and FT% is being applied as the "tiebreaker" so to speak.

I'm willing to agree with this, as long as it's established that FT% alone doesn't make a player "way", "far" or "easily" better than someone else.

Given the volume, defensive attention and FT% is why Kobe is better. Comprehension - use it.

I blame LeBron's athletic regression on his size, not on mileage. So no, Kobe's mileage is not relevant here. Get the **** over this already. You're going nowhere.

Which is part of his athletic build, thus he has regressed. Most players that get older aren't in the same shape they used to be. Reality.

L8kersfan222

07-09-2011, 05:28 PM

Indianguy getting picked apart, resorts to turtle tactic haha its over.

DMAVS41

07-09-2011, 05:35 PM

He's about as much of a Bulls fan as DMavs is a Mavericks fan/Gyno is a Spurs fan.

Gyno was never a spurs fan. He never said anything of the sort.

Rose

07-09-2011, 05:35 PM

I think Kobe and Bronzy are about the same in shooting Bronzy, actually brought his shooting up. I think it's a confidence thing/playing with Wade also impacts it. But he brought it up no doubt.

Jacks3

07-09-2011, 05:36 PM

Gyno was never a spurs fan. He never said anything of the sort.
:roll:

DMAVS41

07-09-2011, 05:43 PM

:roll:

Find a post with him talking about anything more than respecting Duncan, Pop, and the Spurs organization.

LA_Showtime

07-09-2011, 05:45 PM

Gyno was never a spurs fan. He never said anything of the sort.
:oldlol:

catch24

07-09-2011, 05:45 PM

Find a post with him talking about anything more than respecting Duncan, Pop, and the Spurs organization.

What's up with this 3rd person stuff, bro? lol

8BeastlyXOIAD

07-09-2011, 05:46 PM

:roll:

he wasn't.

LA_Showtime

07-09-2011, 05:46 PM

That has to be one of the funniest things Gyno's ever said. :roll:

LA_Showtime

07-09-2011, 05:47 PM

he wasn't.

It's because he's talking in 3rd person you ignorant moron. :lol

DMAVS41

07-09-2011, 05:49 PM

What's up with this 3rd person stuff, bro? lol

For the record, it actually wasn't always me, just like this account isn't. My two other brothers get on this all the time.

We have similar views, but not always. That is why you will see some differences from time to time.

But no, that "Gyno" account as you like to call it never was a Spurs fan account. Never. Unless one of my brothers was posting something I didn't see.

We have been Mavericks fans our entire lives. I actually like the Spurs, but I was never a fan of that team. I'm a fan of Manu though...hence the name.

LA_Showtime

07-09-2011, 05:50 PM

For the record, it actually wasn't always me, just like this account isn't. My two other brothers get on this all the time.

We have similar views, but not always. That is why you will see some differences from time to time.

But no, that "Gyno" account as you like to call it never was a Spurs fan account. Never. Unless one of my brothers posting something I didn't see.

We have been Mavericks fans are entire lives. I actually like the Spurs, but I was never a fan of that team. I'm a fan of Manu though...hence the name.
:roll:

Two brothers = multiple personality disorder

kaiiu

07-09-2011, 05:51 PM

DMAVS41

07-09-2011, 05:52 PM

:roll:

Two brothers = multiple personality disorder

Why are you randomly bringing me up all the time? Are you that obsessed that you come on a basketball message board to talk about an account all the time. That is two random references in the last day.

Go back to posting your GPA and looking like a fool. It suits you much better.

catch24

07-09-2011, 05:52 PM

For the record, it actually wasn't always me, just like this account isn't. My two other brothers get on this all the time.

We have similar views, but not always. That is why you will see some differences from time to time.

But no, that "Gyno" account as you like to call it never was a Spurs fan account. Never. Unless one of my brothers was posting something I didn't see.

We have been Mavericks fans our entire lives. I actually like the Spurs, but I was never a fan of that team. I'm a fan of Manu though...hence the name.

Ahhh, I see. Kinda like when we pointed out 'Ginobili' was spelled wrong, but you said it was an "inside joke"?

Good for you guys though. How long have you been watching the Mavs?