Dirk vs Kobe in elimination games

[DMAVS41]

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

Wow. The difference is staggering.

Dirk plays his best ball with his back against the wall.

Kobe plays some of his worst ball with his back against the wall.



I knew Dirk was a great elimination game player, but wow, this is truly amazing given he's been the lone star on most of his teams throughout his career.

Props to Dirk.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Dirk - 29/12/3 61% TS. 1.8 Turnovers. 23.4 Game Score.

Kobe - 25/7/4 50% TS. 3.4 Turnovers. 15.3 Game Score.

[DMAVS41]

What?

No response from the Kobe stan brigade?

Tpols? Jacks? Where you at?


Not a good look for your boy is it............

[tpols]

Man.. this cat's mad after getting shitted on in the other threads.:oldlol:

I cannot be trolled sir.:cheers:

[DirkNowitzki41]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

A beautiful thing

[Dave3]

Kobe's play being overrated is nothing new. He plays in Los Angeles and has been on winning teams. Not to mention he's made numerous stylish game winners and has a physically appealing game resembling MJ. Obviously people are going to think he's better than he is. At the end of the day though, arguing it is useless because there's a billion posters who love him, and only so few actually caring enough to debate with hordes of posters which include numerous trolls, so it's not really worth opening the debate.

[28renyoy]

Durant

32.3 ppg :pimp:

[Jacks3]

Man.. this cat's mad after getting shitted on in the other threads.:oldlol:

I cannot be trolled sir.:cheers:
This.

At the end of the day, Kobe>>>Dirk.

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Kobe's play being overrated is nothing new. He plays in Los Angeles and has been on winning teams. Not to mention he's made numerous stylish game winners and has a physically appealing game resembling MJ. Obviously people are going to think he's better than he is. At the end of the day though, arguing it is useless because there's a billion posters who love him, and only so few actually caring enough to debate with hordes of posters which include numerous trolls, so it's not really worth opening the debate.
lol @ this garbage.

[Dave3]

lol @ this garbage.
I'm sorry, but coming from the guy who argued for pages and pages that Kobe>Bird, calling my post garbage is more flattery than insulting.

[Jacks3]

I'm sorry, but coming from the guy who argued for pages and pages that Kobe>Bird, calling my post garbage is more flattery than insulting.
Your post is garbage whatever my thoughts concerning Kobe vs Bird are.

[ChrisKreager]

Dirk IS undefeated in game 7's, so that may have something to do with it.

[LA_Showtime]

What are the win/losses for each?

[Dave3]

Your post is garbage whatever my thoughts concerning Kobe vs Bird are.
The idea is, the same mind that would produce a thought like "Bird>Kobe" (and being backed up by TS% and PER despite like 20 other posters arguing the contrary) to also produce the thought that my post is garbage is hardly concerning. Point is, it's not a person whose opinion I would respect anyways. Sorry if that sounded harsh, just how I feel.

[Jacks3]

The idea is, the same mind that would produce a thought like "Bird>Kobe" (and being backed up by TS% and PER despite like 20 other posters arguing the contrary) to also produce the thought that my post is garbage is hardly concerning. Point is, it's not a person whose opinion I would respect anyways. Sorry if that sounded harsh, just how I feel.
The thing is, none of that changes the fact that your post is straight garbage.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true.

[Dave3]

The thing is, none of that changes the fact that your post is straight garbage.
Which is only according to you (hence the same mind argument). Not like your opinion is absolute fact bro...(unless you're arrogant enough to think so)

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves on this playoff run.

Kobe > Dirk careerwise and its not remotely close.


Lets not act like Dirk was in the perfect position to choke away the final series again with a 1-12 first half shooting, then his team kept them in and gave him a second chance (3rd actually, considering 2006), to step up.

I give mad props to Dirk but DMAVS needs a reality check when it comes to downgrading kobe.


Blatant agenda is blatant agenda.

[Jacks3]

Which is only according to you (hence the same mind argument). Not like your opinion is absolute fact bro...(unless you're arrogant enough to think so)
No. I'm absolutely correct here. Your post was terribly wrong.

[LA_Showtime]

I would like my question to be answered. What are the records for Kobe and Dirk in elimination games?

[Dave3]

No. I'm absolutely correct here. Your post was terribly wrong.
All I needed to hear. You think your opinion is fact. No point in discussing with you then:cheers: My post was all wrong yes:rolleyes:

[Dave3]

No. I'm absolutely correct here. Your post was terribly wrong.
Oh, actually I can prove to you that the post is at least partially correct if you're willing to play along...

[LA_Showtime]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Kobe's numbers don't affect his all-time rank in the slightest. I'd like to see the Lakers' record with Kobe in elimination games. I'm guessing it's quite good. That's really all that matters.

[24r2]

Dirk owned the respect of the world.... but apparently OP is a *******

[Jacks3]

Oh, actually I can prove to you that the post is at least partially correct if you're willing to play along...
It's not correct AT ALL. How is Bryant overrated? Most have him somewhere in the top 10-15 all-time. That's exactly where he belongs. Stop the hate!

[Dave3]

It's not correct AT ALL. How is Bryant overrated? Most have him somewhere in the top 10-15 all-time. That's exactly where he belongs. Stop the hate!
Do you think Bryant is the best player in the game today? You've gone on record multiple times in the previous years saying LeBron has been better correct?

[Jacks3]

Do you think Bryant is the best player in the game today? You've gone on record multiple times in the previous years saying LeBron has been better correct?
LeBron has been better since 08-09, yes. :confusedshrug:

[Dave3]

LeBron has been better since 08-09, yes. :confusedshrug:
And yet you have a thread comparing him and Kobe, (made today) and numerous posters are saying things such as "Kobe is still the best player" or "Kobe is better than LeBron still" etc etc. When someone is rated as better than they truly are, is that not the definition of "overrated"?

[Jacks3]

And yet you have a thread comparing him and Kobe, (made today) and numerous posters are saying things such as "Kobe is still the best player" or "Kobe is better than LeBron still" etc etc. When someone is rated as better than they truly are, is that not the definition of "overrated"?
Really? Is that your reasoning? Some select idiots think Kobe's better and he's overrated?

:roll:

The vast majority think LBJ superior.

The vast majority don't even have Bryant in the top 5 at this point.

He's rated perfectly...all-time and current.

[Jacks3]

And yet you have a thread comparing him and Kobe, (made today)
what

[Dave3]

Really? Is that your reasoning? Some select idiots think Kobe's better and he's overrated?

:roll:

The vast majority think LBJ superior.

The vast majority don't even have Bryant in the top 5 at this point.

He's rated perfectly...all-time and current.
If you're going to use "the majority thinks so" then technically you admit that your Kobe>Bird point of view is wrong, since the majority disagreed with you.
Fact of the matter is you still have people thinking Kobe is the best in the game when he's not even top 5. Imagine if he was top 5, and arguably top 3? Way more people would be saying he's the best (like in 2009 and 2010, which people were). He's just always rated better than he has been because he has a larger fan base. Pretty much everything else in the post was correct.

Kobe plays stylistically like MJ. You disagree?
His style of play is aesthetically pleasing. Heard it numerous times from numerous posters. Again, you disagree?
He's hit numerous clutch shots in dramatic fashion. You disagree there?
And he plays in Los Angeles allowing for a bigger fan base. Not objectively debatable.

Notice now how the post you said was garbage actually was pretty much spot on? You can't argue any single point of it, so out of laziness you dismiss it. Again, that's fine since you have some very unusual opinions anyways and it's not like your opinion is fact, but I'm just defending the post...because I can.

Not really much for me to say after this post since I've explained everything. Goodnight.

[Jacks3]

If you're going to use "the majority thinks so" then technically you admit that your Kobe>Bird point of view is wrong, since the majority disagreed with you.
Fact of the matter is you still have people thinking Kobe is the best in the game when he's not even top 5. Imagine if he was top 5, and arguably top 3? Way more people would be saying he's the best (like in 2009 and 2010, which people were). He's just always rated better than he has been because he has a larger fan base. Pretty much everything else in the post was correct.



Again, what a few people think means little. Your entire argument is retarded.

Again, he's rated perfectly fine by the vast majority.

Your bias is pathetic. Goodnight.

[LA_Showtime]

And yet you have a thread comparing him and Kobe, (made today) and numerous posters are saying things such as "Kobe is still the best player" or "Kobe is better than LeBron still" etc etc. When someone is rated as better than they truly are, is that not the definition of "overrated"?

I don't see why comparing Kobe and LeBron is overrating Kobe. They're both top 5 players, or at least LeBron is. Kobe's between 4-8 at this point.

[SCdac]

Feel like these stats tend to penalize players and teams for closing out teams early. Take 2001, for instance.. Lakers swept the Blazers, swept the Kings, swept the Spurs, and beat the 76ers in 5... Looking at the players who have the most "elimination games", Karl Malone, Dirk Nowitzki, etc, have also been a part of alot of losses... what are the W-L's on these games?

[DMAVS41]

Man.. this cat's mad after getting shitted on in the other threads.:oldlol:

I cannot be trolled sir.:cheers:

I destroyed you in the other threads.....you completely did a 180 now with laughable reasons.

I'm not trolling. I created a legit thread comparing two of the best players of all time in elimination games.

1 player steps up and plays great.

1 player lays down and plays poorly.


I just find the results interesting because it was Dirk that was known as the guy that struggles with his back against the wall.....yet Dirk raises his level of play.....

When in reality its Kobe that is one of the worst elimination game players of the last 20 years.

But that is because Kobe is a front runner. If he doesn't have by far the most help or isn't up in the series, he's going to lay down. He's done it time and time again.

This stat is just further evidence of that.

[LA_Showtime]

And yet you still haven't answered my question: What is the record for both players in elimination games? :oldlol:

Oh, and don't act like you aren't trolling. You know exactly what you're doing.

[DMAVS41]

And yet you still haven't answered my question: What is the record for both players in elimination games? :oldlol:

Oh, and don't act like you aren't trolling. You know exactly what you're doing.

I have no idea. I don't know the relevance.....I would imagine the record for both Kobe and Dirk are very poor overall in elimination games.

[LA_Showtime]

I have no idea. I don't know the relevance.....I would imagine the record for both Kobe and Dirk are very poor overall in elimination games.

Are close out games a part of elimination games?

[DMAVS41]

Are close out games a part of elimination games?

I don't think so.

I just went through Dirk and only counted 18 elimination games. I probably missed 2.

In those 18 games, the Mavs were 9-9.

[LA_Showtime]

I don't think so.

I just went through Dirk and only counted 18 elimination games. I probably missed 2.

In those 18 games, the Mavs were 9-9.

I would definitely count close out games too. They're much of the same, unless you're looking to see whether player X is a frontrunner.

[DMAVS41]

I would definitely count close out games too. They're much of the same, unless you're looking to see whether player X is a frontrunner.

Not the same thing at all. Elimination games are totally different. They are win the game or your season is done.

Same thing? They could not be more different.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe was 6-5 until the elimination game this year.

He is now 6-6 from 01 to present in elimination games.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Not the same thing at all. Elimination games are totally different. They are win the game or your season is done.

Same thing? They could not be more different.

Close out games require far more cold blood that back against the wall games IMO. If you get to an elimination game the chances are you and your team have been overrun by the better team. While with the sh1t right there to close it out, you got what it takes, only choking will keep you away from winning.

[DMAVS41]

Close out games require far more cold blood that back against the wall games IMO.

I disagree.

I want the guy fighting for every last chance if a loss results in the season being over.

Close out games are totally different.

[-playmaker-]

Kobe > Dirk career wise

Dirk > Kobe RIGHT NOW

[creepingdeath]

Kobe > Dirk career wise

Dirk > Kobe RIGHT NOW

Yup. Dirk's been GREAT with his back against the wall. Yet Kobe has still 4 more rings. Doubtful he cares about his numbers in elimination games. :lol

[Lucifer]

Kobe- 5 rings.
Dirk- 1.

[madmax]

Dirk >>> Kobrick All Time and currently:cheers:
Anyone who says otherwise is blinded by the bright lights of Hollywood

[brownmamba00]

Dirk >>> Kobrick All Time and currently:cheers:
Anyone who says otherwise is blinded by the bright lights of Hollywood
Kobe and Dirk>>the guy you're dickriding at the moment.

[madmax]

Kobe and Dirk>>the guy you're dickriding at the moment.

team success has nothing to do with individual players, sorry to break it down to you. I'm sure you as a Kobrick stan can attest to this after being swept by Mavs earlier in the playoffs. Heat failed as a team defensively first and foremost and Lebron was confused in the finals what role should he be playing - facilitator or scorer. And one series doesn't define careers, a bigger picture is needed, which is why we have career numbers and stats in the first place.

[kaiiu]

Gino getting ass raped in a thread again...nothing to see here.

[Doctor Rivers]

team success has nothing to do with individual players, sorry to break it down to you. I'm sure you as a Kobrick stan can attest to this after being swept by Mavs earlier in the playoffs. Heat failed as a team defensively first and foremost and Lebron was confused in the finals what role should he be playing - facilitator or scorer. And one series doesn't define careers, a bigger picture is needed, which is why we have career numbers and stats in the first place.

LeBrick failed in the Finals because he shrinks in the biggest moment. LeBrick is nothing but a frontrunner.

One series may not define a career but what about LeBrick's two trips to the Finals. Pretty massive failures for LeBrick's legacy if you ask me.

[kaiiu]

LeBrick failed in the Finals because he shrinks in the biggest moment. LeBrick is nothing but a frontrunner.

One series may not define a career but what about LeBrick's two trips to the Finals. Pretty massive failures for LeBrick's legacy if you ask me.
:oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

Game score?

The **** is that?

We have had the same numbers since what? 80 when they added the 3 point line? 31 years at least of the same numbers yet we keep combining them in different ways to...do what? True shooting, EFG%, PER, win shares and game score now?

[BlackJoker23]

Game score?

The **** is that?

We have had the same numbers since what? 80 when they added the 3 point line? 31 years at least of the same numbers yet we keep combining them in different ways to...do what? True shooting, EFG%, PER, win shares and game score now?
game score is like per but its to evaluate one game only. such as jordans game score in his 55 point game against the suns in the finals is 38.9. his game score from the 54 point game against the knicks in the playoffs is 41.3

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1993/

the only thing game score doesnt take into account is minutes played since a player can have a low game score despite playing a great game.in blowout cases. of course defense isnt taken into account minus defensive boards steals blks.

[Simple Jack]

Game score?

The **** is that?

We have had the same numbers since what? 80 when they added the 3 point line? 31 years at least of the same numbers yet we keep combining them in different ways to...do what? True shooting, EFG%, PER, win shares and game score now?

Apparently a grading of an individuals game. Not sure what other metrics it takes beside basically giving the PER for a single game.

And Elimination games are very different from close-out games. Especially if the closeout game is game 4 or 5.

[Dave3]

I don't see why comparing Kobe and LeBron is overrating Kobe. They're both top 5 players, or at least LeBron is. Kobe's between 4-8 at this point.
The overrating isn't the comparing. The overrating is the people saying Kobe is still the best player in the league or that he's easily better than LeBron. And you remember ESPN polls from the last 2 years right? Both in 2009 and 2010, more people voted for Kobe being better than LeBron, and I know for a fact you were saying LeBron was better since the 08-09 season. That's the overrating.

[imdaman99]

look, I get it. Dirk proved himself this postseason, he's an alltime great now.

But lets compare Kobe and Dirk when they are the favorites in the 1st round.

[Disaprine]

Dirk >>> Kobrick All Time and currently:cheers:
Anyone who says otherwise is blinded by the bright lights of Hollywood
:facepalm

[creepingdeath]

look, I get it. Dirk proved himself this postseason, he's an alltime great now.

But lets compare Kobe and Dirk when they are the favorites in the 1st round.
The Mavericks were favored against Golden State back in 2007, and look how that turned out... I'd rather keep us low profile. :lol

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Dirk won a title we don't have to invent new terms now to try to show him as "clutch". He already has the reputation now even if his series clinching game was less efficient that Kobe's much maligned game 7. :confusedshrug:

[aau]

man , i'm sorry

but i luv this stuff

.

counted 5 elimination games

2001 - 1stR elim over utah 3-2

2003 - 1stR elim over port 4-3

2003 - 2ndR elim over sac 4-3

2005 - 1stR elim over hou 4-3

2006 - 2ndR elim over S A 4-3

.

notice that most occurred in 1stR

no conference finals or finals

lmao

so not only does dirk have multiple 1stR exits

when he does advance , he does so barely

.

.

not a good look G

[Jacks3]

The overrating isn't the comparing. The overrating is the people saying Kobe is still the best player in the league or that he's easily better than LeBron. And you remember ESPN polls from the last 2 years right? Both in 2009 and 2010, more people voted for Kobe being better than LeBron, and I know for a fact you were saying LeBron was better since the 08-09 season. That's the overrating.
:roll:

[brisbaneman]

I thought everyone knew Dirk was heroic in elimination games.

[with malice]

Yeah, he was effin' awesome in 06 and 07. Oh... wait...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

"elimination games" where going against the 04 Pistons in NBA Finals is equivalent to going against the 07 Warriors in the first round.

:oldlol: