Why is Lebron James a different player in the finals?

[Chrono90]

There has to be a better reason than him choking and him having no heart.

This is my theory. Wade wanted to take more shots in the finals and he told the coaches/organization about it. They set up Wade for more shots and Lebron isn't happy with that because he's been the better player throughout the season and the series against Celtics and Bulls. Ego problems. I can't see how a great player can play this bad. I think he choose to play like this. Not cause he choked.

Anyways, what do you ppl think????

[HB40TheNextStar]

"Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't" - LeBron

I think what LeBron meant to say was, "Some people have it, I don't."

[Micku]

He just sucked.

He tried shooting, it brick.

He couldn't post up or couldn't drive by Kidd.

He failed to post up Barea.

He didn't do anything on the offensive end.

He had one of his worst playoff performances (probably one of his worst games he had in several years) in his career.

Not only that, he screwed up on defense as well.


Wade stepped up and they couldn't stop him. Wade posted up Kidd. Wade drove by Kidd and whoever that tried to guard him for the most part. There were certain aspects that Wade took over the ball a bit, but he played better.

LBJ should've just demanded the ball. He is the main playmaker of the team and the closer of the team throughout the playoffs. He tried in game 2, and failed. Ever since game 2, he really wasn't the same.

Plus, he wasn't getting the foul calls that he normally get.

[Scoooter]

Marion's great defense was definitely a factor. Wade had more favoriable matchups in this series. Although Luol Deng is also a great defender so I don't know I been drinkin'.

[tpols]

I was watching NBA TV, and Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were all sitting in the training room, stretching and stuff right before Game 2.. and I think it was David Aldridge interviewing Lebron as he was sitting down. Aldridge asked him a question about his teammates and lebron looked over at bosh and said 'Well, I have a multiple all star power forward alongside me, and...' then he proceeded to point at Wade and said 'I also have a finals MVP playing withe me, so what more could I ask for?'

I honestly think Lebron just took a backseat to Wade because of what he was able to do in the Finals 5 years ago.. like Wade would be able to carry him through the series with ease. I think it's why Lebron was so passive.

[Patrick Chewing]

He is afraid of the big stage plain and simple. He's the most criticized player in the league, and he just wants to win, but doesn't want to face all the questions about why he couldn't carry or lead a team there. Miami and Dwyane Wade were his scapegoat.

But here we sit today, and he still can't win.


It's quite comical.

[ReturnofJPR]

LeBrick is a mental midget.

He has no team skills or real basketball skills. All he can do is run up and down the court.

The guy has more demons in his head than the Menendez brothers had combined. :violin: :violin:

[ElPigto]

He simply met his match.

The fact is that Lebron has not truly developed a post game nor a midrange game. The lack of footwork kills his ability to take advantage of most defenders in the post. There is no reason why JJ Barea was able to handle Lebron one on one in the post.

I might not like Kobe one bit, but I do recognize the fact that he has worked hard on his game. Although his me-attitude can be detrimental to his team, he at least has the offensive moves to take advantage of all kinds of match ups. He has definitely slowed down and his body has taken quite a toll but he is still a great player because he has been able to develop other parts of his game.

Lebron, not so much. He does get hot and there are times where he seems unstopabble, but quite frankly I'm still not convinced that he even works on his game during the summer. He loves putting up threes and he has definitely improved in that area, however, he seems to have no other moves if he isn't in transition or if his defender has concrete shoes. Lebron seems to struggle taking his man off the dribble now-a-days as well, which surprises me, but I guess.

Lebron is overhyped. He is a great player, but I wouldn't classify him in the top 15 at all.

[Indian guy]

I really don't think there's an answer for LeBron's passiveness in the Finals. He went from averaging 19 FGA + 9 FTA in the first 3 rounds to 15 FGA and 3.3 FTA in the Finals. Dallas was statistically the worst defense he faced in the playoffs, so his approach couldn't make less sense.

[R.I.P.]

Largest Dropoff in PPG
Regular Season to NBA Finals
PPG Diff
2010-11 LeBron James -8.9
1963-64 Wilt Chamberlain -7.7
1971-72 Jerry West -6.0
1986-87 Kevin McHale -5.6
1980-81 Moses Malone -5.4
2006-07 LeBron James -5.3

[bluechox2]

LEBRON SUCKS

MELO>>>LEBRON

haha

[Indian guy]

He simply met his match.

The fact is that Lebron has not truly developed a post game nor a midrange game. The lack of footwork kills his ability to take advantage of most defenders in the post. There is no reason why JJ Barea was able to handle Lebron one on one in the post.

Barea guarded him like what - 1 possession in this series?

And another retard talking about post-game :facepalm. I must have missed all the other perimeter players in this series who were posting up.

[ReturnofJPR]

LEBRON SUCKS

MELO>>>LEBRON

haha

There is something about Melo...

I am confident that if Melo played next to Bosh/herpes infested wade he would have won the ring this season...

[BallsOut]

Barea guarded him like what - 1 possession in this series?

And another retard talking about post-game :facepalm. I must have missed all the other perimeter players in this series who were posting up.

Wade, Marion, Dirk and hell even Bosh at stretches. It's over man. Let it go.

[Gallant]

More excuses. He just isn't as good as advertised when put on the highest stage. We have a big enough sample size of him in the NBA Finals on two separate teams. He looked like an all-time great in neither of them so far.

[kaiiu]

LEBRON SUCKS

MELO>>>LEBRON

haha
this. Melo would torch this defense. Especially with Wade and Bosh

[xxxSuperStar]

The answer is simple.

When an elite coaching staff has time to focus 100% on a player, like LeBron, they'll figure out his weaknesses and exploit them.

The Mavs figured LeBron (and the Heat out) and had the personnel to execute.

Going into next year, after being exposed in this series, LeBron/Heat will have to rethink/retool.

Every single coach next year will watch this series on "what to do" against the Heat.

Now, can the Heat come up with a solution? TBD...they weren't able to this series.

[ElPigto]

Barea guarded him like what - 1 possession in this series?

And another retard talking about post-game :facepalm. I must have missed all the other perimeter players in this series who were posting up.

Fact or fiction, Lebron has a good post game?

Face it, Lebron post game sucks. He should be taking advantage of all his defenders with his size and strength. Too bad he doesn't want to develop it.

[Indian guy]

The answer is simple.

When an elite coaching staff has time to focus 100% on a player, like LeBron, they'll figure out his weaknesses and exploit them.

The Mavs figured LeBron (and the Heat out) and had the personnel to execute.


I'm having a difficult time understanding what Dallas figured out that #1 ranked Chicago and #2 ranked Boston couldn't. Dallas probably showed a little harder on screen-n-rolls and were a little more willing to double LeBron in the high post....other than that, they were inferior to Chicago/Boston in every way.

LeBron shut his own damn self in this series by refusing to shoot the ball. It's not like he didn't have cold stretches the first 3 rounds, difference was, he kept shooting. In this series, he was often playing hot potato with the ball. I don't get that.

[Samurai Swoosh]

I'm having a difficult time understanding what Dallas figured out that #1 ranked Chicago and #2 ranked Boston couldn't. Dallas probably showed a little harder on screen-n-rolls and were a little more willing to double LeBron in the high post....other than that, they were inferior to Chicago/Boston in every way.

LeBron shut his own damn self in this series by refusing to shoot the ball. It's not like he didn't have cold stretches the first 3 rounds, difference was, he kept shooting. In this series, he was often playing hot potato with the ball. I don't get that.
But you have freely admitted he's not the dynamic offensive weapon he just was a year ago. He's a slasher / playmaker who has COMPLETELY lost the ability to take people off the dribble and create. He's a fish out of water now, so he really doesn't have any go to abilities to help himself and others. He's not a natural jump shooter.

[Indian guy]

He's a fish out of water now

He was a fish out of water all season, but still managed to compensate for his regressed gifts through a much improved jumper. That's how he survived this season - by shooting the ball A LOT. So what prevented him from SHOOTING in these Finals? He practically took himself out of the series in Game 3 & 4, and even with the entire world talking prior to Game 5 & 6, he still played a passive game for the most part.

LeBron's regressed athleticism prevents him from being a Top 3-5 player in this league. It prevents him from being productive when his jumper is off. What his regressed body doesn't prevent him from doing is SHOOTING THE DAMN BALL. That's my problem with LeBron in this series, his refusal to actually play with the responsibility a superstar has. He seemed content being one-of-the-guys. I cannot for my life understand WHY a player with no history of being passive suddenly played like it for an entire series with this much at stake.

[kaiiu]

the improved jumper myth is mindboggling. His 09 jumper> his current jumper.

[Indian guy]

the improved jumper myth is mindboggling. His 09 jumper> his current jumper.

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James

[Samurai Swoosh]

LeBron's regressed athleticism prevents him from being a Top 3-5 player in this league. It prevents him from being productive when his jumper is off. What his regressed body doesn't prevent him from doing is SHOOTING THE DAMN BALL. That's my problem with LeBron in this series, his refusal to actually play with the responsibility a superstar has. He seemed content being one-of-the-guys. I cannot for my life understand WHY a player with no history of being passive suddenly played like it for an entire series with this much at stake.
But that's ALWAYS been the knock on him. To anyone who understand basketball, you could see him crumble in pressure situations. You just noticed this? He deflects all the time. On the court, off the court. He's a loser, bro.

[kaiiu]

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James
fvck those stats. I watched games. His fg% this year is a result of being single covered and protecting fg %. He was a better shooter and offensive player in 09

[LA_Showtime]

I thought the turning point of the series was somewhere in game 2 when Dirk finally thought of himself as the best player in the series. We just never saw that from LeBron.

[cteach111]

fvck those stats. I watched games. His fg% this year is a result of being single covered and protecting fg %. He was a better shooter and offensive player in 09

nah, you watched his postseason like most of us did. His jumper in the postseason was definitely better than it was in the regular season that year. He's a more consistent jump shooter now than he was at that time.

[DCL]

8 years in the league... 6'8" 270lbs.... and never learned to post up.

those crazy 28ft fadeaways ain't gonna drop in all day. and when they zone up the paint and block your lane, what else you got??? but still, that ain't the first time lebron's seen a zone. he shoulda attacked the mothafugga. maybe he was afraid of chandler.

[kaiiu]

nah, you watched his postseason like most of us did. His jumper in the postseason was definitely better than it was in the regular season that year. He's a more consistent jump shooter now than he was at that time.
:oldlol: I watched every game of Lebron. :rolleyes: trust me he was a better shooter that year

[cteach111]

:oldlol: I watched every game of Lebron. :rolleyes: trust me he was a better shooter that year

i will say maybe.. only because he was more focused that year than any other year i've seen him play.

His mechanics are better though, but the focus ain't the same anymore.

[Indian guy]

But that's ALWAYS been the knock on him.

That he's passive in BIG moments? No one accused him of that in series losses to Detroit, SA, Boston, Orlando and Boston again(barring that bizarre Game 5). Look up his FGA in those series'. He went down with all guns blazing. That's my problem with LeBron in this series - he never even tried to have a BIG game! This is something I could NEVER accuse him of before!


To anyone who understand basketball, you could see him crumble in pressure situations.

This is what I don't get. How does a player who's led the league in late-game production for the past 7 years in BOTH regular season and playoffs suddenly get cold feet? And not just in crunch time, but for an entire freaking series - right from tip-off? It just doesn't make any sense. I have watched LeBron more closely than anyone since 05-06, and I have never NOT seen him try to have a HUGE game on the big stage. The guy has always stepped on the court with the intent of having a big game. This was the ONLY series where he never seemed interested in dominating or even being a significant part of the show for that matter.

[jrong]

But that's ALWAYS been the knock on him. To anyone who understand basketball, you could see him crumble in pressure situations. You just noticed this? He deflects all the time. On the court, off the court. He's a loser, bro.

It's a combination of his inability to break down playoff-defense off the dribble, oncourt alpha-dog issues wrt Wade, and apparently a propensity to get inside his own head.

[tpols]

How does a player who's led the league in late-game production for the past 7 years in BOTH regular season and playoffs suddenly get cold feet? .
Expectations and pressure.

Lebron felt fine going all out with Cleveland and always being super aggressive because he knew he was far and away the best offensive player on his team.. if he took over a ton of possesions he really had nothing to lose because he KNEW his team couldn't do it any better without him. That isn't true when he's playing with wade though. Notice how lebron became 'passive' right after Wade started to dominate. He obviously didn't want to ruin a good thing. He felt more and more pressure every single time he shot because he knew that he had a teammate that could replicate what he does and possibly even exceed it.. he didn't want to be labeled as selfish.

The expectations and pressure get much higher when you have the tools to get the job done versus when you dont and are fighting a battle that no one would really condemn you for anyway.

[Indian guy]

It's a combination of his inability to break down playoff-defense off the dribble

Err...I certainly hope you aren't implying he was having trouble getting inside against playoffs teams prior to this season. Inability to make jump shots is what killed him from 06-08. His supporting cast failed him the last 2 seasons. This season(Finals) it was his passiveness.


oncourt alpha-dog issues wrt Wade

This was a non-issue all year, but suddenly became one in the NBA Finals?


and apparently a propensity to get inside his own head.

If it was pressure that prevented LeBron from shooting the ball in the Finals, then it's a first in his career. LeBron has always gone down blazing otherwise.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Expectations and pressure.

Lebron felt fine going all out with Cleveland and always being super aggressive because he knew he was far and away the best offensive player on his team.. if he took over a ton of possesions he really had nothing to lose because he KNEW his team couldn't do it any better without him. That isn't true when he's playing with wade though. Notice how lebron became 'passive' right after Wade started to dominate. He obviously didn't want to ruin a good thing. He felt more and more pressure every single time he shot because he knew that he had a teammate that could replicate what he does and possibly even exceed it.. he didn't want to be labeled as selfish.

The expectations and pressure get much higher when you have the tools to get the job done versus when you dont and are fighting a battle that no one would really condemn you for anyway.
ETHER

:pimp:

[Indian guy]

Expectations and pressure.

Cleveland had the best record in the league the last 2 seasons and were majority's pick to win-it-all. LeBron even won 2 straight MVPs. That sounds like ridiculous pressure to me. The guy was also the most hyped athlete to enter pro sports in US history. It's hard to imagine any athlete knowing pressure more than LeBron. So I just can't buy the idea of him suddenly getting cold feet in his 8th freaking season after playing under enormous expectations his entire professional life.


That isn't true when he's playing with wade though. Notice how lebron became 'passive' right after Wade started to dominate.

I don't buy this at all. There were plenty of games this season(especially at home) where Wade went off while LeBron struggled. This didn't turn him into a passive bitch. LeBron's approach never changed - he remained aggressive as ever to get his OWN regardless of how Wade played. The perfect example would be the Boston series. Wade easily had the superior series and was ripping Boston apart from the get-go. None of it prevented LeBron from playing his own game. He often turned it on the 2nd half and was the primary closer in every game. Wade's play has never really determined LeBron's aggressiveness this season, so I don't think anything changed in the NBA Finals.


What changed in the NBA Finals? He obviously didn't want to ruin a good thing.

He thought he was somehow hurting the team by looking for his own shot? How does this make any sense after playing the entire season for a team that needed all 3 members of the Big 3 to play well in order to win?

[tpols]

Cleveland had the best record in the league the last 2 seasons and were majority's pick to win-it-all. LeBron even won 2 straight MVPs. That sounds like ridiculous pressure to me. The guy was also the most hyped athlete to enter pro sports in US history. It's hard to imagine any athlete knowing pressure more than LeBron. So I just can't buy the idea of him suddenly getting cold feet in his 8th freaking season.
Dude.. I specifically explained what kind of pressure I was talking about.. It has become apparent over the past year that Lebron James WAS those Cleveland teams.. He didn't have the pressure of living up to one of his teammates expectations like he currently has to with Wade's.




I don't buy this at all. There were plenty of games this season(especially at home) where Wade went off while LeBron struggled. This didn't turn him into a passive bitch. LeBron's approach never changed - he remained aggressive as ever to get his OWN regardless of how Wade played. The perfect example would be the Boston series. Wade easily had the superior series and was ripping Boston apart from the get-go. None of it prevented LeBron from playing his own game. He often turned it on the 2nd half and was the primary closer in every game. How Wade was playing has never really determined LeBron's aggressiveness this season, so I don't think anything changed in the NBA Finals.

It happened in the NBA finals because Lebron has recognized Wade as a great Finals performer and he thought we would be having a repeat of 06, so he didn't want to get in the way of Dwayne's game. I dont know if this is the thread, but I posted what I saw on NBA TV about Lebron talking about this and recognizing Wade's greatness in the finals..

And do you recognize that Lebron's passiveness perfectly co-insided with the emergence of Wade's domination? Are you just labeling this a coincidence?



He thought he was somehow hurting the team by looking for his own shot? How does this make any sense after playing the entire season for a team that needed all 3 members of the Big 3 to play well in order to win?
This is lebron's mentality when Wade is dominating:

Every shot I take is a shot taken away from Wade.. and he's been converting better than me.

It's OBVIOUS that the pressure got to Lebron and he didn't want to take shots for fear of fvcking the offense up. He passed on a bunch of wide open threes today that he normally would take and make. Dude's scared of failure plain and simple.

[knicksman]

because no one defends lebron in the regular season unlike in the playoffs where its win or go home. lebron is a stoppable player because he has no consistent jumpshot unlike kobe, jordan, bird

[tpols]

because no one defends lebron in the regular season unlike in the playoffs where its win or go home. lebron is a stoppable player because he has no consistent jumpshot unlike kobe, jordan, bird
Nah he had the jumpshot. His midrange game and efficiency was around what Kobe's is all year.

It's just that when he got to the big stage he lost confidence in his shot.

Notice how Lebron went 5 for 6 on threes through the first 6 quarters of the series, and then towards the middle and end of the series, when Wade was dominating, his shot stopped falling. He became passive and scared. That game 2 comeback had him shook and he thought Wade could pull the team out of it.

[Collie]

He's a great great player when he can snowball his game. My beef with him is that he SHRINKS at the sign of adversity. Orlando? Detroit? No problem, he can dominate as long as his game is on.

Once he hits a snag though, once he has that crucial bad game. Once the criticism and the spotlight comes in, he suddenly plays like he is zoned out, that nothing matters even if they win or lose.

It's like Lebron has an extra gear for when things are going great. What he lacks, and what most other greats had, is that extra gear when in the face of adversity. It's like that gear malfunctions with Lebron.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

:banana: