lebron clearly lost some athleticism

[inclinerator]

watching clips from his cavs days, he was changing directions way more fluidly then now, way more explosive too. The only reason why he's shooting a higher percentage now is more ball movement and a better jumpshot

[Clippersfan86]

He made the mistake of adding nearly 30 pounds of muscle. When he was in his first 2-3 seasons he was listed at 240. Now he says he's 260-270. Lebron would be much better off trimming back down to 230-240. Remember when Kobe bulked up to 220 and lost a lot of his game? Then he shed back to 205 ish... and was back to normal. That much weight DOES make a difference over the course of a season.

[Batz]

He made the mistake of adding nearly 30 pounds of muscle. When he was in his first 2-3 seasons he was listed at 240. Now he says he's 260-270. Lebron would be much better off trimming back down to 230-240. Remember when Kobe bulked up to 220 and lost a lot of his game? Then he shed back to 205 ish... and was back to normal. That much weight DOES make a difference over the course of a season.
Kobe averaged 30/7/6/2 on 45% FG when he bulked up to 220+ lbs...

[inclinerator]

true, he plays with less contact these days anyways

[che guevara]

Kobe averaged 30/7/6/2 on 45% FG when he bulked up to 220+ lbs...
No, Kobe was at like 205-210 that season. He bulked up to 220 in '07, and iirc was at a similar weight in '05 too. His offense was fine in '07 but he had one of his worst defensive seasons that year.

And yeah, I think if Lebron dropped 10 pounds or so it would help him regain some of his old explosiveness.

[Clippersfan86]

No, Kobe was at like 205-210 that season. He bulked up to 220 in '07, and iirc was at a similar weight in '05 too. His offense was fine in '07 but he had one of his worst defensive seasons that year.

And yeah, I think if Lebron dropped 10 pounds or so it would help him regain some of his old explosiveness.

Exactly. Plus surprised as a Lakers fan.. Batz doesn't remember Kobe commenting on how the gained weight impacted his game negatively. He said he was stronger but way too slow.

[Heat007]

No, Kobe was at like 205-210 that season. He bulked up to 220 in '07, and iirc was at a similar weight in '05 too. His offense was fine in '07 but he had one of his worst defensive seasons that year.

Because he's not a very good athlete and not too athletic. Wade is shorter and plays at 220 (so he's bulkier) but easily whizzes by Kobe like he's standing still at 205

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202491

[Clippersfan86]

Because he's not a very good athlete and not too athletic. Wade is shorter and plays at 220 (so he's bulkier) but easily whizzes by Kobe like he's standing still at 205

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202491

All about body type man and genetics. Lebron was much more athletic when he was slimmer.

[Batz]

No, Kobe was at like 205-210 that season. He bulked up to 220 in '07, and iirc was at a similar weight in '05 too. His offense was fine in '07 but he had one of his worst defensive seasons that year.

And yeah, I think if Lebron dropped 10 pounds or so it would help him regain some of his old explosiveness.
He was 220 that season. It was a key reason why he averaged those numbers, then suffered a knee injury later on, got surgery and then lost all the weight again.

Exactly. Plus surprised as a Lakers fan.. Batz doesn't remember Kobe commenting on how the gained weight impacted his game negatively. He said he was stronger but way too slow.
Not a Lakers fan you tool.

[jstern]

He was 220 that season. It was a key reason why he averaged those numbers, then suffered a knee injury later on, got surgery and then lost all the weight again.

Not a Lakers fan you tool.

I could have sworn you were a big Kobe fan. Right?

[Clippersfan86]

I could have sworn you were a big Kobe fan. Right?

Ah maybe he's just a Kobe homer. As much as I've heard him talk about Kobe I assumed he was a Lakers fan. Either way he's wrong period. Kobe's been interviewed on this and said he was too slow and his all around game suffered when he gained weight. He's running this off tangent by targeting my Kobe comparison but the point stands. Lebron needs to shed back to 240 and his athleticism like quickness and hops will improve again.

[Batz]

I could have sworn you were a big Kobe fan. Right?
Yes I am.

Ah maybe he's just a Kobe homer. As much as I've heard him talk about Kobe I assumed he was a Lakers fan. Either way he's wrong period. Kobe's been interviewed on this and said he was too slow and his all around game suffered when he gained weight. He's running this off tangent by targeting my Kobe comparison but the point stands. Lebron needs to shed back to 240 and his athleticism like quickness and hops will improve again.
He gained strength, you take that and his prime years of athleticism and you get 30/6/7. He then suffered a knee injury because of the gained weight, got surgery and was forced to lose the weight.

And I don't give two shits about you and your insecurities to disagree with everything about what a Kobe fan says so you can have something to do on a Saturday night.

And to answer this thread, Lebron shouldn't lose weight. He has lost nothing. Weight isn't going to be a problem for him for another year or two.

[Clippersfan86]

Yes I am.

He gained strength, you take that and his prime years of athleticism and you get 30/6/7. He then suffered a knee injury because of the gained weight, got surgery and was forced to lose the weight.

And I don't give two shits about you and your insecurities to disagree with everything about what a Kobe fan says so you can have something to do on a Saturday night.

And to answer this thread, Lebron shouldn't lose weight. He has lost nothing. Weight isn't going to be a problem for him for another year or two.

LOL. So far this thread is what 3-1 in favor of Bron shedding a little weight? Looks like you're the minority. Suck it up. I'm actually a fan of Kobe's game so this has nothing to do with disagreeing. It has to do with you not knowing WTF you're talking about because I've personally heard Kobe speak on this issue. Just because you feel Kobe had his best all around season when he bulked up doesn't mean there is a direct correlation between weight gain and this. Could be mere coincidence. Almost everyone thinks the more agile, 205 pound Kobe is better than the 220 pound Kobe.. INCLUDING KOBE WHO SAID IT HIMSELF.

[SavageMode]

Who cares how much he weighs.. I'm sure he pays good money to physicians giving him a good diet..

[Lucifer]

Lebron needs to shed weight later in his career not now while he can still get away with pushing people away with his athleticism.

It should be hilarious to watch when he slows down the way kobe has at athletically at 32. I predict 18/6/7 stats on

[Batz]

LOL. So far this thread is what 3-1 in favor of Bron shedding a little weight? Looks like you're the minority bi***. Suck it up. I'm actually a fan of Kobe's game so this has nothing to do with disagreeing. It has to do with you not knowing WTF you're talking about because I've personally heard Kobe speak on this issue. Just because you feel Kobe had his best all around season when he bulked up doesn't mean there is a direct correlation between weight gain and this. Could be mere coincidence. Almost everyone thinks the more agile, 205 pound Kobe is better than the 220 pound Kobe.. INCLUDING KOBE WHO SAID IT HIMSELF.
I'm not arguing over the Lebron thing, I just simply stated the opinion so the thread can go back on topic. Minority? Well you've been in that group for your entire 'life'. So I'd rather not settle, even if I don't care about yours or anyone elses opinion on the subject.

You've heard nothing. He complained about weight slowing him down in 2007? Right, the finger and knee issues certainly couldn't have caused any problems. Infact he has knee surgery the season before. Just straight on pulling shit of your ass now I see. Don't get me wrong, Kobe was bulked that season aswell, but he was also bulked up in 2002-2003. It was infact the reason why he has his initial knee injury. No coincidence, it's the reason. Sure it might've made him slower a bit, but the strength and his prime athletic year made up for all of it (leaping, explosiveness, quickness etc).

Fan of Kobe's game? Just by a quick scan of your posts you can tell you're not a fan of anyone outside of the Clippers roster (unless ofcourse you have take the side of a player/team in order to belittle the Lakers or one of its players), definitely not a fan Kobe's game. So please save me the reasoning bullshit.

[DuMa]

i agree, his game has changed a lot since 3 years ago. i kinda miss the freakish fluidity athleticism he had. it was like watching a way more athletic version of iggy today. but im not so sure he can regain the fluidity if he sheds the muscle. that is to say even if he can, some guys just remain muscular all their life.

[Clippersfan86]

I'm not arguing over the Lebron thing, I just simply stated the opinion so the thread can go back on topic. Minority? Well you've been in that group for your entire 'life'. So I'd rather not settle, even if I don't care about yours or anyone elses opinion on the subject.

You've heard nothing. He complained about weight slowing him down in 2007? Right, the finger and knee issues certainly couldn't have caused any problems. Infact he has knee surgery the season before. Just straight on pulling shit of your ass now I see. Don't get me wrong, Kobe was bulked that season aswell, but he was also bulked up in 2002-2003. It was infact the reason why he has his initial knee injury. No coincidence, it's the reason. Sure it might've made him slower a bit, but the strength and his prime athletic year made up for all of it (leaping, explosiveness, quickness etc).

Fan of Kobe's game? Just by a quick scan of your posts you can tell you're not a fan of anyone outside of the Clippers roster (unless ofcourse you have take the side of a player/team in order to belittle the Lakers or one of its players), definitely not a fan Kobe's game. So please save me the reasoning bullshit.

Then you need to shore up your awareness. I spend far more time here talking about other players/teams than I do my own. You honestly think I racked up almost 3k posts in Clippers gameday threads :confusedshrug: ? You nitpicked my post where I used Kobe as an example and derailed the thread. Stay on topic man. Common sense isn't exactly common I guess. Anyone who's worked in fitness.. or has any understand of workouts etc.. understands the benefits of gaining mass.. as well as the benefits of losing mass. Strength for speed on the most basic level. It's not impossible to be extremely ripped and as quick as someone.. but generally speaking body type does play a part in athletics.

Sprinters are usually ripped.. because they need the explosive, fast twist muscle action... while long distance runners are lighter because A. they are burning too many calories to maintain mass and B. it's more beneficial to have a light frame for less wear on your body and less fatigue. As I said anyone that's ever been an athlete considers this common sense. Lebron is only 25 or 26 years old so his athletic decline has nothing to do with age or being out of a prime obviously. What we do know is he's bulked up a lot since his first 3 seasons in the league so that's the common sense answer.

[Grim]

Batz, why are u so mad?

[Heat007]

Wade hasn't lost any athleticism and he's 29.

Some plays from this year with both of them to compare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai1viQ5L8og

Wade has looked a lot more athletic all season (except for the first month when he wasn't in game shape as he had to miss preseason with injury).. Wade is still #1 in the NBA for points in the paint for guards this year despite that..., and this is amazing as even Jordan slowed down in attacking the rack when he was around 30.

Wade looks more athletic than LeBron at 29, and this is with having knee surgery in the past while LeBron hasn't had to deal with that.

[jlip]

watching clips from his cavs days, he was changing directions way more fluidly then now, way more explosive too. The only reason why he's shooting a higher percentage now is more ball movement and a better jumpshot

So much for all of the..."All Lebron does is bulldoze his way to the rim and shoot layups" talk.

[ballerz]

Wade hasn't lost any athleticism and he's 29.

Some plays from this year with both of them to compare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai1viQ5L8og

Wade has looked a lot more athletic all season (except for the first month when he wasn't in game shape as he had to miss preseason with injury).. Wade is still #1 in the NBA for points in the paint for guards this year despite that..., and this is amazing as even Jordan slowed down in attacking the rack when he was around 30.

Wade looks more athletic than LeBron at 29, and this is with having knee surgery in the past while LeBron hasn't had to deal with that.
wade is considerably smaller then lebron and bron has 30 pounds on wade

[LA_Showtime]

Wade hasn't lost any athleticism and he's 29.

Some plays from this year with both of them to compare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai1viQ5L8og

Wade has looked a lot more athletic all season (except for the first month when he wasn't in game shape as he had to miss preseason with injury).. Wade is still #1 in the NBA for points in the paint for guards this year despite that..., and this is amazing as even Jordan slowed down in attacking the rack when he was around 30.

Wade looks more athletic than LeBron at 29, and this is with having knee surgery in the past while LeBron hasn't had to deal with that.

Yeah, it's amazing what taking human growth hormones can do.

[Batz]

Then you need to shore up your awareness. I spend far more time here talking about other players/teams than I do my own. You honestly think I racked up almost 3k posts in Clippers gameday threads :confusedshrug: ?
Multiple threads/posts on just Clippers.

Common sense isn't exactly common I guess.
Cute.

Anyone who's worked in fitness.. or has any understand of workouts etc.. understands the benefits of gaining mass.. as well as the benefits of losing mass. Strength for speed on the most basic level. It's not impossible to be extremely ripped and as quick as someone.. but generally speaking body type does play a part in athletics.
Well for anyone who has played a sport, knows the benefits of gaining mass. Kobe gained some whilst still keeping his leaping ability, explosiveness and quickness, which allowed him to dominate. It later on resulted in a knee injury, which is the key reason why he chose to lose weight in the first place. Later on in his career he lost weight because of loss of athleticism. But that was not the initial reason.


Sprinters are usually ripped.. because they need the explosive, fast twist muscle action... while long distance runners are lighter because A. they are burning too many calories to maintain mass and B. it's more beneficial to have a light frame for less wear on your body and less fatigue. As I said anyone that's ever been an athlete considers this common sense. Lebron is only 25 or 26 years old so his athletic decline has nothing to do with age or being out of a prime obviously. What we do know is he's bulked up a lot since his first 3 seasons in the league so that's the common sense answer.
Why are you comparing sprinters to a basketball player? You do realize that Basketball requires an all around built physique depending on their game style and position? As in different to a sprinter. Lebron is not a sprinter, nor does he need to lose weight to become one. He takes advantage of his strength, leaping ability, quickness and what is already incredibly fast speed to dominate the way he is now. For heavens sake look at his stat line and tell me he needs to make changes. Right now he does not need to make any changes, later in his career however, he would have to in order to maintain some quickness and speed. But right now, no.

Batz, why are u so mad?
Thank you for adding on to the discussion.

[bdreason]

If he's not going to play on the post I don't see any real reason to have so much muscle mass. He plays like a PG, but is built like a PF. Being that heavy and playing like a perimeter player could certainly shorten LeBron's prime.

[bdreason]

He takes advantage of his strength


Not really. His strength and size certainly helps him finish around the hoop with contact... but outside of that he doesn't play a physical type game. He's a PG in a PF's body.

[HighFlyer23]

Batz, why are u so mad?

butthurt kobe fan

mentions kobe in every thread

[Clippersfan86]

Not really. His strength and size certainly helps him finish around the hoop with contact... but outside of that he doesn't play a physical type game. He's a PG in a PF's body.

Exactly.

[Pointguard]

He's gaming and hiding his game for the playoffs???

[Batz]

If he's not going to play on the post I don't see any real reason to have so much muscle mass. He plays like a PG, but is built like a PF. Being that heavy and playing like a perimeter player could certainly shorten LeBron's prime.
Yes, but is weight an issue now? No. And it won't be for another year.


Not really. His strength and size certainly helps him finish around the hoop with contact... but outside of that he doesn't play a physical type game. He's a PG in a PF's body.
He has spent most of his career around the hoop (relevant exaggeration). Besides, quote that entire sentence, and it'll make your comment completely irrelevant.

butthurt kobe fan

mentions kobe in every thread
Why would I be buthurt of Clippersfans comment? It did nothing to be little Kobe, I just noticed he had his facts wrong and corrected it.

[Juges8932]

Because he's not a very good athlete and not too athletic. Wade is shorter and plays at 220 (so he's bulkier) but easily whizzes by Kobe like he's standing still at 205

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202491

You are relentless.

[Lebron23]

That's why LeBron improved his midrange jumper this year. I think LeBron is not giving his 100% effort in the regular season. You are going to see a more explosive LeBron in the playoffs.

[Lebron23]

LMAO at LeBron losing some athletism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgYzNi-jAJI

LeBron showcase explosive transition game.

[lefthook00]

Because he's not a very good athlete and not too athletic. Wade is shorter and plays at 220 (so he's bulkier) but easily whizzes by Kobe like he's standing still at 205

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202491

Must be good to finally be able to pick on Kobe cuz he's an old man now. Was it worth the wait?

If LeBron played the exact same way as he did in Cleveland(ball in his hands, only scorer/playmaker, etc.), you would still see him flying around. He has better players on his team now.

[gilalizard]

He's certainly losing something:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1001/nba_g_ljames1_576.jpg

[hitmanyr2k]

LMAO at LeBron losing some athletism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgYzNi-jAJI

LeBron showcase explosive transition game.

To be honest that clip clearly illustrates Lebron's loss of athleticism. 2-3 years ago that dude used to effortlessly take off and fly down court. In that clip look at how much effort it takes him just to get a head of steam. He has to put his head down and rev up like the roadrunner and sh** :oldlol: And then on the alleyoop he barely got up. Lebron from 2 seasons ago rocks that back with his head at rim level and send it down strong. Today's Lebron catches the oop below rim level and guides it in.

[FadeAwayJ13]

To be honest that clip clearly illustrates Lebron's loss of athleticism. 2-3 years ago that dude used to effortlessly take off and fly down court. In that clip look at how much effort it takes him just to get a head of steam. He has to put his head down and rev up like the roadrunner and sh** :oldlol: And then on the alleyoop he barely got up. Lebron from 2 seasons ago rocks that back with his head at rim level and send it down strong. Today's Lebron catches the oop below rim level and guides it in.

Yeah, look at him barely take off down the court and finish in the air for an alley-oop! How pathetic.

[Christofire]

He's certainly losing something:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1001/nba_g_ljames1_576.jpg

steroids causing him to go bald!

[Solid Snake]

I don't get why he keeps that weight if he's NOT GOING TO USE IT in the post.

[Dave3]

Yeah, look at him barely take off down the court and finish in the air for an alley-oop! How pathetic.
He's not insulting him, he's just saying there's a difference between that, and LeBron from 2006.

[Bigsmoke]

LMAO at LeBron losing some athletism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgYzNi-jAJI

LeBron showcase explosive transition game.
ESPN said he was running 19 MPH :eek:

[iDunk]

LMAO at LeBron losing some athletism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgYzNi-jAJI

LeBron showcase explosive transition game.
Any 6'8 NBA player could probably throw that down.

The speed though? Yeah, LeBron hasn't lost any of it. For some reason LeBron just doesn't seem to get up as much, he used to throw down some crazy hammer dunks when he was with Cleveland.

[bokes15]

He lost a little athleticism from his earlier seasons, it happens. But the dude is still more athletic, jumps higher, and runs faster than 90% of the league.

[PostUpBumpSpinJ]

Lebron bulked up so he could move to the 4 spot :roll:

Speaking of athleticism. Did you see Dwayne Wades fast break lastnight off the steal? 3 dribbles from one end of the court to the other, but he busted out infront of 2-3 other guys and left them in his dust. Crazy speed.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I have a theory that even though you would think the NBA is a league in which athletes use mostly fast twitch explosive muscles, its actually more of a marathon long term endurance league. I believe a lot of these high leapers have their best leaping season in the beginning of their careers because that is when they have the most fast twitch muscles, as they play more and more seasons, the grind of the seasons wears down the fast twitch muscles and they turn into slow twitch muscles. Also, lebron looks too bulky and like he doesnt try.


This is also why I think Blake Griffin had his best leaping year this year, he'll have plenty of dunks in the future, but they wont be as graceful and effortless as they were this year.

[TropicalDrini]

I agree with the fact that he doesnt jump as high as say 2008..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_eCOt5TKpI

that's bron at his peak.

but still a sick play

[madmax]

Any 6'8 NBA player could probably throw that down.

The speed though? Yeah, LeBron hasn't lost any of it. For some reason LeBron just doesn't seem to get up as much, he used to throw down some crazy hammer dunks when he was with Cleveland.

actually it's completely opposite...Lebron still can jump through the roof, but that additional weight and bulk slowed him down laterally a bit this season. Also a huge reason why he doesn't do so many through the traffic dunks anymore is lack of spacing on this heat team - in Cleveland the whole team was working to set up screens and create space for his drives. Not the case anymore

[LA_Showtime]

LeBron has clearly lost a step or two this season. He's not as quick or agile and his two foot leaps aren't nearly as good as they used to be. He's not as explosive either. Anyone who doesn't notice this hasn't watched him over the past 3 or 4 years.

[LeFraud Shames]

He's clearly lost a lot of hair too. :lol

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/188039_202650559752830_1192575_n.jpg

[inclinerator]

ok its the fking playoffs and he has yet to show his past athleticism

[inclinerator]

btw lebron lost his speed too! he's friggin slow compared to before, i think even wade is faster than him at this point. (see last night fast break dunk)

[e-LIMON-ators]

It's not surprising, what is this his 8th season? He's had a lot of miles on his body and a guy like him with his weight and height moving like he does its gonna put lots of wear and tear on his joints. If you count his postseason games its like his 9-10 season in the league. He is past his athletic prime but still in his mental prime. Usually you are athletically best around 23-25.

[arifgokcen]

Indeed,he looks like he lost a step or two.But considering he looks bigger than ever it is normal.Before shaq came along west said he is the heaviest dude in locker room go figure.Big z is around 260lbs.Considering he looks bigger than 2008-2009 lebron there is chance he is above 270lbs.What i dont understand is he can still jump higher than almost %95 of the league.He had couple of rim level dunks this season.But not above the rim!!!

[LA_Showtime]

Indeed,he looks like he lost a step or two.But considering he looks bigger than ever it is normal.Before shaq came along west said he is the heaviest dude in locker room go figure.Big z is around 260lbs.Considering he looks bigger than 2008-2009 lebron there is chance he is above 270lbs.What i dont understand is he can still jump higher than almost %95 of the league.He had couple of rim level dunks this season.But not above the rim!!!

Yeah, he's still a freak athlete no doubt. But what made him stand out was his combination of size, explosiveness, and agility. Now he's just got size and brute strength along with great hops, rather than ridiculous hops.

[Lebron23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNcvdYhup4s&feature=related

LeBron regains his explosiveness in the off season. That clips reminds me of LeBron's athleticism in Cleveland

[Oositdwn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNcvdYhup4s&feature=related

LeBron regains his explosiveness in the off season. That clips reminds me of LeBron's athleticism in Cleveland
One dunk doesn't mean he regained his athleticism

[2swift4u]

One dunk doesn't mean he regained his athleticism

true but have you seen this picture?

http://www.inflexwetrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/IFWT-Lebron-Durant-pool.jpg

looks like he's in a pretty damn good shape right now! I definitely would not call this bulky or anything like that...

[Nick Young]

Lebron needs to shed weight later in his career not now while he can still get away with pushing people away with his athleticism.

It should be hilarious to watch when he slows down the way kobe has at athletically at 32. I predict 18/6/7 stats on
athletic decline combined with the refs stop giving him so many bullshit calls and freethrows, it will be sad for Lebron fans to see who their king truly is

[Indian guy]

Going by what I saw in those summer charity games, LeBron will be even worse this season compared to last. I see him dropping out of the Top 5.

[chips93]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNcvdYhup4s&feature=related

LeBron regains his explosiveness in the off season. That clips reminds me of LeBron's athleticism in Cleveland

i was suspicious of those rims. im not sure they were 10 ft. everybody seemed to be getting higher than usual that game

[Nash]

You need to have lost something to regain it. Lebron is still 26, you don't loose your athleticism at that age unless you have a major injury. Especially not a freak of nature like Lebron.

[I.R.Beast]

actually it's completely opposite...Lebron still can jump through the roof, but that additional weight and bulk slowed him down laterally a bit this season. Also a huge reason why he doesn't do so many through the traffic dunks anymore is lack of spacing on this heat team - in Cleveland the whole team was working to set up screens and create space for his drives. Not the case anymore

a bit?....man last year it was sickening watching LeBron try to get by defenders. He needed so many screens last year because he couldnt beat anyone off the dribble. I dont understand why he doesnt work out with Carmelo in the off seasons. Carmelo has the types of moves that Guys James size should have.


1. excellent hesitation
2. great 1 dribble pullup
3. great spinmove
4. tight crossover

[2swift4u]

a bit?....man last year it was sickening watching LeBron try to get by defenders. He needed so many screens last year because he couldnt beat anyone off the dribble. I dont understand why he doesnt work out with Carmelo in the off seasons. Carmelo has the types of moves that Guys James size should have.


1. excellent hesitation
2. great 1 dribble pullup
3. great spinmove
4. tight crossover

I guess that's true. Although Melo isnt' really a role model when it comes to fitness & speed, is he? :D but yeah you're right he needs to get some more moves to get some space between him and the defender in order to get a good look at the rim. Paule Pierce is good at that too.

[MMM]

Going by what I saw in those summer charity games, LeBron will be even worse this season compared to last. I see him dropping out of the Top 5.

Really?????

your basing it off summer charity games.....I hope that is a joke.

[ukballer]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/9/5/128966282864572877.jpg

[pauk]

:facepalm

[LA_Showtime]

This is brand new information!

I guess we shouldn't be surprised, LeBron's just a freak athlete. I don't think we've ever seen a guy with his combination of speed, agility, quickness, raw power, and explosiveness. A guy like that is obviously going to age differently than say a Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant type of wing player. As long as LeBron continues to work hard and develop some type of post game he should transition smoothly into the latter part of his career.

[thejumpa]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is no reason for LeBron to be 260+ if he's on the perimeter. Before, he was most likely in the mid 250's and ultra quick and explosive. Had a lower BF% and was just a beast. He's still a "freak" athlete but he'll be a lot better by shedding some of that weight. Honestly, if he took a page out of Kobes book he will see great results. Slow the bench pressing and all that down and focus on squats, cleans, and different exercises that focus on building your explosion. That and diet are the reasons why Kobe has maintained great athleticism despite playing 20K minutes and being 33 years old.

[Indian guy]

Really?????

your basing it off summer charity games.....I hope that is a joke.

I was gauging his ABILITY based on those charity games, not his performance. LeBron WILL be a worse player this season than last.


He's still a "freak" athlete

What is remotely freakish about current LeBron? He's barely a good athlete today, and that's taking into account all facets of athleticism. If I simply narrow it down to game-athleticism, then he's highly lacking.

[thejumpa]

I was gauging his ABILITY based on those charity games, not his performance. LeBron WILL be a worse player this season than last.

[qyite]=thejumpa]He's still a "freak" athlete

What is remotely freakish about current LeBron? He's barely a good athlete today, and that's taking into account all facets of athleticism. If I simply narrow it down to game-athleticism, then he's highly lacking.[/QUOTE]

Not gonna waste my time if you really believe this....which we all know you don't.

[pmj]

What is remotely freakish about current LeBron? He's barely a good athlete today, and that's taking into account all facets of athleticism. If I simply narrow it down to game-athleticism, then he's highly lacking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_zRBsC5BY#t=1m18s

[inclinerator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_zRBsC5BY#t=1m18s
those might be lower rims, his quickness decreased dramatically

[pegasus]

those might be lower rims, his quickness decreased dramatically

They are definitely low.

[pmj]

those might be lower rims, his quickness decreased dramatically

Dude he's 6'8", look at the space to his head, you're saying that's not a little over 3 feet? Why would there by lower rims lol.

[thejumpa]

If you watch a few plays from 2009-2010, there is absolutely no doubt that it's a different LeBron James. Even a blind homer could see it. Yes, he is learning to play team ball and that will slow you up anyway. But, his explosiveness, overall speed, hops, lateral movement, blah blah blah....isn't the same. Ironically enough, it's made him a better player.

That video contains lowered rims. Probably 9.5 feet. Remember, it was an offseason pickup/charity game. No defense is played and all the crowd wants to see is dunks and other highlight plays. Might as well lower them a bit and give the crowd what they are asking for.

[che guevara]

If you watch a few plays from 2009-2010, there is absolutely no doubt that it's a different LeBron James. Even a blind homer could see it. Yes, he is learning to play team ball and that will slow you up anyway. But, his explosiveness, overall speed, hops, lateral movement, blah blah blah....isn't the same. Ironically enough, it's made him a better player.

That video contains lowered rims. Probably 9.5 feet. Remember, it was an offseason pickup/charity game. No defense is played and all the crowd wants to see is dunks and other highlight plays. Might as well lower them a bit and give the crowd what they are asking for.
They look normal to me, look at the height once the players are back on the ground.

And I can't really tell much of anything from these charity games, other than Lebron's jumper looking as good as I've ever seen it in Rudy Gay's charity game (not talking about the results of the shot, just how his shot looks).

[LemonMan]

significant weight gain = Loss of athleticism no matter how you look at it

[Dave3]

Dude he's 6'8", look at the space to his head, you're saying that's not a little over 3 feet? Why would there by lower rims lol.
They are lower rims. John Wall got his head to the rim, and he's damn athletic, but he doesn't get that high, being only 6'4

[305Baller]

significant weight gain = Loss of athleticism no matter how you look at it

Exactly, you can't be bulky and a good ballerina at the same time.

[LBJ 23]

Exactly, you can't be bulky and a good ballerina at the same time.


Of course you can


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AuIURhCoAA

[Smoke117]

Whether he has lost athleticism or not, who cares? Most of you are in this thread just to hate and make derogatory comments. He's played 8 seasons with a 40mpg average never missing more than 6 games in any given season...OF COURSE HIS ATHLETICISM IS DETERIORATING. You add the playoffs and that's just more minutes he's played. The man plays a ****ing professional sport for a living.

My problem mainly with Lebron is that I don't think he's built up his skill level enough over time to manage the aging process. His post game is the biggest offense here. He looks like an awkward fool down there. He doesn't know what he is doing. At 8 years in the league and at his size he should have a legitimate post game. Beyond the fact that frankly he just bullied his way down lanes even at his most athletic and dominated this "soft ball' weak era where you can't even play any real defense (the reason he could just lower his shoulder or just charge right at the basket for a drive in the first place), I don't have much of a problem with him like some of you guys do. His stats are inflated because of the era he's played in but he's still a top 3 player in the league, period.

[Hernando]

I agree, he lost some of his fast paced, burn any defender type of game he once had in Cleveland. Some of this has to be due to having D-Wade on the team, and Christina Bosh. He feels like he doesn't have to do as much as he once had to. ( I live in Cleveland :cry:

[madmax]

Indian_Guy is one weird mofo...pretends to be a fan of Lebron, yet always finds something to moan about and ALWAYS nitpicks any of his flaws.Now Lebron is not even a mediocre athlete according to him...LMAO:lol

[thejumpa]

They look normal to me, look at the height once the players are back on the ground.

And I can't really tell much of anything from these charity games, other than Lebron's jumper looking as good as I've ever seen it in Rudy Gay's charity game (not talking about the results of the shot, just how his shot looks).

Yeah, his jumper does look good. Good form and good balance when he's shooting. Speaking of his jumpers, look at his jumpers from 2009. Even with those he had more bounce in his step. His pull up was quicker too....

The fact that he's worked on his shooting, defense, and post game more just shows that even he knows his body is changing. Yes, the weight has something to do with it, but playing an ungodly amount of games in his 8 years and going 100 miles an hour for 80% of them plays a much bigger part. It's all good though because even now he's more athletic than 90% of the league. Only small quick guards can really rival him.

[305Baller]

Of course you can


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AuIURhCoAA

:roll:

[305Baller]

Whether he has lost athleticism or not, who cares? Most of you are in this thread just to hate and make derogatory comments. He's played 8 seasons with a 40mpg average never missing more than 6 games in any given season...OF COURSE HIS ATHLETICISM IS DETERIORATING. You add the playoffs and that's just more minutes he's played. The man plays a ****ing professional sport for a living.

My problem mainly with Lebron is that I don't think he's built up his skill level enough over time to manage the aging process. His post game is the biggest offense here. He looks like an awkward fool down there. He doesn't know what he is doing. At 8 years in the league and at his size he should have a legitimate post game. Beyond the fact that frankly he just bullied his way down lanes even at his most athletic and dominated this "soft ball' weak era where you can't even play any real defense (the reason he could just lower his shoulder or just charge right at the basket for a drive in the first place), I don't have much of a problem with him like some of you guys do. His stats are inflated because of the era he's played in but he's still a top 3 player in the league, period.


exactly, not a big deal. But adding too much bulk speeds up the process. Ask Shawn Kemp.

[ballsohard247]

I think his weight gain is the main reason he appears to have lost a step or so. I think he is aware of it because in the Finals he didn't even really try to get past Kidd. It's like he isn't confident in his blow by ability anymore.

[305Baller]

I think his weight gain is the main reason he appears to have lost a step or so. I think he is aware of it because in the Finals he didn't even really try to get past Kidd. It's like he isn't confident in his blow by ability anymore.

Thats a problem he should not have with his ability, maybe.

[pauk]

desperate lebron haters.. running out of things to hate on huh? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2382/25038825.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2EXfqqcAyDA/TRTsji6x3SI/AAAAAAAAOf8/AWHmE66f9WA/JHP10_NBA_36285.JPG

[pauk]

oh and here is some Heat Lebron footage of him "not being able to blow by people and so on".... :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PplvNDqPvKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhlO7Z-ozug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRRaJKvNbSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOTTVwcJXC0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3n8_O2u4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITnwDoFWT9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsVI7wJr3Dw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0e_-U-Zb-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_-syxrmsbc

and so on and so on and so on.........

find another hobby haters :lol

i couldnt care less if he REALLY showed signs of losing athleticism or something like that... but that is not the case....

YES there is a difference between the 18-19 year old Lebron and todays Lebron in terms of quickness extremly slightly.... but thats about it, that has more to do with him being 30 lbs heavier...

[Dave3]

oh and here is some Heat Lebron footage of him "not being able to blow by people and so on".... :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PplvNDqPvKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhlO7Z-ozug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRRaJKvNbSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOTTVwcJXC0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3n8_O2u4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITnwDoFWT9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsVI7wJr3Dw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0e_-U-Zb-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_-syxrmsbc

and so on and so on and so on.........

find another hobby haters :lol

i couldnt care less if he REALLY showed signs of losing athleticism or something like that... but that is not the case....

YES there is a difference between the 18-19 year old Lebron and todays Lebron in terms of quickness extremly slightly.... but thats about it, that has more to do with him being 30 lbs heavier...
Alright, so I watched the first 3 videos and none of them were a blow by. The first one was a freaking step back crossover, so I don't see how that in any way shape or form related to athleticism.

So yeah, is it worth continuing to watch any of them or are none of them actual "blow by"s?

[KDthunderup]

desperate lebron haters.. running out of things to hate on huh? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2382/25038825.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2EXfqqcAyDA/TRTsji6x3SI/AAAAAAAAOf8/AWHmE66f9WA/JHP10_NBA_36285.JPGThe magic of camera angles

[Dave3]

The magic of camera angles
LeBron does still get high though. The difference is he doesn't do it as easily as before, nor is he as quick or fast as before.

[G-train]

I seen some summer vids, he looks slimmer and was really getting up.

[Dave3]

I seen some summer vids, he looks slimmer and was really getting up.We'll never be able to tell really, because his problem hasn't been getting up. The problem is quickness, and you never see quickness on display unless the guy is going 100% which he never really will need to in an exhibition game with no defense.

[madmax]

Getting high up was never a Lebron's problem, even with extra weight he was carrying last season. The bigger problem is indeed quickness and ESPECIALLY diminished agility - I lost the count how many times Bron Bron got called for offensive fouls or simply lost the ball in the traffic last year...therefore I really hope he will start a new season in slimmer shape soon

[Heavincent]

oh and here is some Heat Lebron footage of him "not being able to blow by people and so on".... :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PplvNDqPvKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhlO7Z-ozug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRRaJKvNbSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOTTVwcJXC0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3n8_O2u4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITnwDoFWT9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsVI7wJr3Dw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0e_-U-Zb-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_-syxrmsbc

and so on and so on and so on.........

find another hobby haters :lol

i couldnt care less if he REALLY showed signs of losing athleticism or something like that... but that is not the case....

YES there is a difference between the 18-19 year old Lebron and todays Lebron in terms of quickness extremly slightly.... but thats about it, that has more to do with him being 30 lbs heavier...

Dude, your obsession with Lebron is really, really creepy.

The guy doesn't even know you exist, yet you defend him like he's your own father or something.

[305Baller]

TA!!!

http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-flop-2.gif

[game3524]

You need to have lost something to regain it. Lebron is still 26, you don't loose your athleticism at that age unless you have a major injury. Especially not a freak of nature like Lebron.

It isn't the age, it the milage.

Guys who come straight out of high school age like dogs, Kobe at age 26-27 wasn't the athlete he was at age 21-23.

This doesn't mean, Lebron can't be a better player. But he has to work on his skills and hearing how he worked with Hakeem this offseason, I think he will be ok.

[ballsohard247]

The most telling thing about LeBron's declining athleticism is the lateral quickness he used to have is not as impressive. He just doesn't seem to have that "spring in his step" quite like he used to. Last year he rarely blew by opponents one on one and called for screens a lot more than in previous years. It happens to all players at some point no matter how physically gifted but LeBron is fortunate that his jumper has improved as much as it has.
I was really impressed by some of the difficult shots he was making last year like contested threes and 16 foot turnarounds. If his post game improves he will still be effective but like Jordan did later in his career he won't be dunking on people everynight and slashing to get his points. Instead he'll post up and hit jumpers, picking his spots.

[32Dayz]

Lebron is perhaps the most all around skilled player in the NBA.

with or without his Peak Athleticism he will still be one of the best players in the league.

[Kiarip]

Lebron is perhaps the most all around skilled player in the NBA.

with or without his Peak Athleticism he will still be one of the best players in the league.

Are you serious? LOL.

The only aspect of Lebron's skill set that's really first class in the NBA is his left hand ball control.

[keepinitreal]

:no:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLdqpz1h62o

[BuGzBuNNy]

:no:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLdqpz1h62o
Not as impressive as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOOoZZB9BY

[SacJB Shady]

Not as impressive as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOOoZZB9BY



Yea but dude he just dunked over someone. Other than Carter, i don't know anyone else who had done that. That was insane. It was today huh? The dude has still got it.

[AngelEyes]

Yea but dude he just dunked over someone. Other than Carter, i don't know anyone else who had done that. That was insane. It was today huh? The dude has still got it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LiEGItH1Yg

[iDefend5]

I was gauging his ABILITY based on those charity games, not his performance. LeBron WILL be a worse player this season than last.



What is remotely freakish about current LeBron? He's barely a good athlete today, and that's taking into account all facets of athleticism. If I simply narrow it down to game-athleticism, then he's highly lacking.
:roll:

[Askmeificare]

clearly

[SwooshReturns]

He lost athleticism last year. The drop off from 2010 to 2011 was noticeable. It wasn't a myth. It happened. Looks like he lost weight for this season and has regained some explosion, and some of that leaping ability. As noticeable with the Lucas dunk. But he still isn't near as quick and explosive off the dribble as he was in 2004 - 2010.

[pauk]

:facepalm

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/multimedia/dynamic/01314/bron-dunk29_1314513c.jpg
http://d2nxvnj9b2h8rk.cloudfront.net/archive/x2139485900/g244000000000000000ce3fbb0679fa0307c7476f1d310e78b d9757c74b.jpg
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/multimedia/dynamic/01314/bron-dunk29a_1314530c.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2EXfqqcAyDA/TRTsji6x3SI/AAAAAAAAOf8/AWHmE66f9WA/JHP10_NBA_36285.JPG
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2382/25038825.jpg
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/media/photo/2012-01/67738735.jpg
http://www.esportsinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/james.jpg
http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/01/27/23/55/n3jEx.St.56.jpg
http://www.nbadunks.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/lebron-james-vs-cavs.jpg

[iDefend5]

He lost athleticism last year. The drop off from 2010 to 2011 was noticeable. It wasn't a myth. It happened. Looks like he lost weight for this season and has regained some explosion, and some of that leaping ability. As noticeable with the Lucas dunk. But he still isn't near as quick and explosive off the dribble as he was in 2004 - 2010.
fair assessment, he isn't as athletic as cleveland but he is still athletic and more athletic than last season

[LA_Showtime]

He looks a lot better this season. He's still pretty lethal in the open court and off the ball, but his explosiveness with the basketball is probably half of what it used to be.

[che guevara]

He looks a lot better this season. He's still pretty lethal in the open court and off the ball, but his explosiveness with the basketball is probably half of what it used to be.
He made a very quick drive to his left late in the game and finished the layup, I think Q-rich was defending him. I've occasionally seen him show flashes of his Cleveland self this year, like maybe a couple plays per month, but nothing consistent. Still better than he was last year, though.

[iDefend5]

He made a very quick drive to his left late in the game and finished the layup, I think Q-rich was defending him. I've occasionally seen him show flashes of his Cleveland self this year, like maybe a couple plays per month, but nothing consistent. Still better than he was last year, though.
Why do you suck on LeBron's dick? Doesn't it get tiring? Why don't you root for a real team instead?

[pauk]

Why do you spit on LeBron's face all the time? Doesn't it get tiring? Why don't you root for a real team instead?

ditto

[pauk]

He looks a lot better this season. He's still pretty lethal in the open court and off the ball, but his explosiveness with the basketball is probably half of what it used to be.

Lebron has never been more explosive than what you see... except compared to when he was 18-20 years old and was 35 lbs lighter....

[Blue&Orange]

have you guys seen Amare lately? Now that's some serious loss of athleticism right there.

Lebron is just fine.

[iDefend5]

ditto
nah, he sucsk on LBJ's dick, he was a cavs fan before 2010 just like Lebron23

[Lebron23]

ditto


Nice avatar Pauk. Rg is a flaming f@got.

[LA_Showtime]

He made a very quick drive to his left late in the game and finished the layup, I think Q-rich was defending him. I've occasionally seen him show flashes of his Cleveland self this year, like maybe a couple plays per month, but nothing consistent. Still better than he was last year, though.

Yeah, but 3 or 4 years ago that would've been a dunk. It was more noticeable last season though. On the few occasions he'd get into the lane he would get hang in the air and force up lay ups that would horribly miss.

[LA_Showtime]

Lebron has never been more explosive than what you see... except compared to when he was 18-20 years old and was 35 lbs lighter....

I like how half of those pictures you posted are distorted by the various camera angles that make LeBron look super human.

No one's saying the guy is an average athlete (except for Indian Guy). But he is noticeable less explosive than he was in Cleveland and if you want proof watch the guy on dribble drives, assuming he gets by his man in the first place.

[iDefend5]

Nice avatar Pauk. Rg is a B1tchmade *****.
what? it is true that you were a cavs fan before lebron left in 2010. :oldlol:

[che guevara]

Why do you suck on LeBron's dick? Doesn't it get tiring? Why don't you root for a real team instead?
Aren't you RG? The guy who has literally made 50+ accounts on this site and keeps getting banned over and over? You really don't have room to talk shit over the internet.

[Lebron23]

Aren't you RG? The guy who has literally made 50+ accounts on this site and keeps getting banned over and over? You really don't have room to talk shit over the internet.


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[iDefend5]

Aren't you RG? The guy who has literally made 50+ accounts on this site and keeps getting banned over and over? You really don't have room to talk shit over the internet.
I'm not talking shit, I was just asking a question, why do you hop on LeBron's dick? I'm sure you claimed you were a Cavs fan back in 2009 and now you probably claim you are a Heat fan now? What is the point of doing that? Doesn't it get tiring just following one stupid black guy over and over again opposed to just one team that will never move or change?

Player fans are the biggest fakkits of them all

[SwooshReturns]

Yeah, but 3 or 4 years ago that would've been a dunk. It was more noticeable last season though. On the few occasions he'd get into the lane he would get hang in the air and force up lay ups that would horribly miss.
Agreed. I think honestly he probably just partied A LOT last year in his first season on South Beach and gained a lot of weight. Which didn't help his leaping ability. But his dexterity and quickness have dropped off significantly since 2010.

No matter how many angled pictures pauk's crazy ass will post in this thread. LeBron even though he's still very athletic and still gets very high on his dunks ... doesn't jump near as HIGH and get off the ground as quickly as he used to, but more so than all of that ... it's his extreme drop off in quickness from a stand still dribble to his drives to the basket that are most noticeable.

And that is the major reason why he's had such difficulty in the half court set up since 2010. Before that great defenders such as Kirk Hinrich couldn't even stay in front of him. It's not a myth, he's lost A LOT of quickness.

Of course int he open court when he gets going he's a train. And no one should be able to stop him. But there was numerous times last year where he finished plays with akward ass layups that just the year prior would've been THUNDEROUS highlight dunks.

See his jam on James Johnsons v.s. the Bulls in the 2010 playoffs. THAT'S the LeBron that was scary. He could do everything he does now, but he could get to the rim off the dribble at WILL and moved like a guard. Now, he really does move more like a jerky, robotic and stiff power forward. Especially off the dribble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM2NJLQ2224

Watch the INSANE first step, and then the ridiculously strong and athletic finish.

[che guevara]

I'm not talking shit, I was just asking a question, why do you hop on LeBron's dick? I'm sure you claimed you were a Cavs fan back in 2009 and now you probably claim you are a Heat fan now? What is the point of doing that? Doesn't it get tiring just following one stupid black guy over and over again opposed to just one team that will never move or change?

Player fans are the biggest fakkits of them all
Never ever claimed to be a Cavs or Heat fan.

And okay.

[Derivative]

He's still athletic as ever

[LA_Showtime]

He's still athletic as ever

Yeah, no.

[Lebron23]

I am gonna recruit 5 or more posters Mr. Lenchiner. Just IP Ban Rg's IP Address.

[Bob Cousy]

since 2011 he's been finishing less at the rim after drives.

During his Cleveland days you RARELY would see LeBron drive, get bodied and then lay it up short. In CLE he would elevate higher than the contestant, take the contact and lay it in like nothing hit him.

the laying up short shit started last year.


BUT his stats are just as impressive as ever, so the minimal loss of athleticism is not a big deal.

[pauk]

Agreed. I think honestly he probably just partied A LOT last year in his first season on South Beach and gained a lot of weight. Which didn't help his leaping ability. But his dexterity and quickness have dropped off significantly since 2010.

No matter how many angled pictures pauk's crazy ass will post in this thread. LeBron even though he's still very athletic and still gets very high on his dunks ... doesn't jump near as HIGH and get off the ground as quickly as he used to, but more so than all of that ... it's his extreme drop off in quickness from a stand still dribble to his drives to the basket that are most noticeable.

And that is the major reason why he's had such difficulty in the half court set up since 2010. Before that great defenders such as Kirk Hinrich couldn't even stay in front of him. It's not a myth, he's lost A LOT of quickness.

Of course int he open court when he gets going he's a train. And no one should be able to stop him. But there was numerous times last year where he finished plays with akward ass layups that just the year prior would've been THUNDEROUS highlight dunks.

See his jam on James Johnsons v.s. the Bulls in the 2010 playoffs. THAT'S the LeBron that was scary. He could do everything he does now, but he could get to the rim off the dribble at WILL and moved like a guard. Now, he really does move more like a jerky, robotic and stiff power forward. Especially off the dribble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM2NJLQ2224

Watch the INSANE first step, and then the ridiculously strong and athletic finish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nBQ0sUd3wA (even better first step here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jlnpKvOwQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qojf66GWJY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jglz-tsxcTI&feature=related

Same exact thing done there in Heat uniform.... :confusedshrug:


I would really have loved to have seen this historic/ancient Lebron you people keep dreaming about to have existed..... that had a 69 inch vertical leap and exploded like only Usain Bolt...

[Carbine]

All these remarks of "back in the old days he would have done this and that," yet no videos or proof to show of it.

[SwooshReturns]

I would really have loved to have seen this historic/ancient Lebron you people keep dreaming about to have existed..... that had a 69 inch vertical leap and exploded like only Usain Bolt...
Dude, you seem butt hurt about this ... no one is saying the guy is an old man. No one is saying he doesn't jump high, or shouldn't be considered athletic. He's obviously lost a LOT of quickness and explosion. It's literally clear to anyone who knows what they're watching. I don't see why you struggle so bad to conceed this one known fact. It's human nature. He's wearing down. All that weight and size, he was bound to wear down athletically.

[LA_Showtime]

... Are you not watching the videos your posting? There is a clear difference between those and what LeBron was doing in Cleveland. Those are power dunks. There's a wind up and a nasty finish. In Cleveland he combined power with quickness and explosiveness.

I don't see why you guys think people would lie about LeBron's athletic decline. There is literally no reason to do that. None.

The only dunk that even remotely resembled what he was doing in Cleveland was that dunk on Billy Walker, and that was this year. And like we've been saying, LeBron looks better this year than last. Still doesn't compare with those ferocious dunks he was throwing around every other night as a Cav.

[Eric Cartman]

He's still athletic as ever

No, but still a freak.

[SwooshReturns]

... Are you not watching the videos your posting? There is a clear difference between those and what LeBron was doing in Cleveland. Those are power dunks. There's a wind up and a nasty finish. In Cleveland he combined power with quickness and explosiveness.

I don't see why you guys think people would lie about LeBron's athletic decline. There is literally no reason to do that. None.

The only dunk that even remotely resembled what he was doing in Cleveland was that dunk on Billy Walker, and that was this year. And like we've been saying, LeBron looks better this year than last. Still doesn't compare with those ferocious dunks he was throwing around every other night as a Cav.
Gets it.

There is many things to hate or make fun of LeBron about ...

The mental weakness, fragile nature, the faggy buddy buddy nature, the obsessive need to be liked, juvenile dance routines during games, the stupid hilarious hairline, the EPIC failures in the NBA Finals, the front runner mentality

But his decline in athleticism just is what it is ...

[pauk]

Dude, you seem butt hurt about this ... no one is saying the guy is an old man. No one is saying he doesn't jump high, or shouldn't be considered athletic. He's obviously lost a LOT of quickness and explosion. It's literally clear to anyone who knows what they're watching. I don't see why you struggle so bad to conceed this one known fact. It's human nature. He's wearing down. All that weight and size, he was bound to wear down athletically.

Really? I couldnt care less if his athleticism has VANISHED completely..... he is better than ever..... my point is, i have seen every game of Lebron since his NBA game debut vs Kings...... my point is that Lebron has NEVER been more athletic than what he is today in any shape or form....

The only time you could see Lebron being only maybe slightly quicker is when he was 18-19 years old and 35 lbs lighter.........

take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m0_f-bfWFA

Watch the entire thing... even then you can not see any significant difference, maybe a microscopical difference quickness wise, but not significant....

[thejumpa]

Since his Cavs days, he's older and an easy 15-20 pounds heavier. No shit he's not going to be as explosive. However, he's in much better shape this year than last and he's clearly regained what many say he's "lost" (which I say was added weight due to partying/not keeping yourself in tip top shape). He's much quicker, doesn't need a screen 24/7, and has got that explosiveness back. His overall mobility is just better and more crisp. Maybe not the same as a 23 year old LBJ, but good enough to be completely dominant when he needs to. Not that vertical leap defines how athletic you are, but he's had a few dunks this year where his head was at the rim and he got got there in a hurry. That only happened a few times last season and he always looked slow when doing it. Just goes to show you hard of a worker off-season he is. Dude got back to being super lean and fast and it's made him a better player IMO. He's all over the court every game and still has enough energy to play back to backs and impact games on both sides of the ball.

Hell, even the dunk he had today on the fastbreak looked to be something he would have done a couple years ago.

[SwooshReturns]

Really? I couldnt care less if his athleticism has VANISHED completely.....
Yet you keep posting stupid odd camera angle pictures ad naseum to prove otherwise just for ... giggles?

Don't lie to us, don't lie to yourself.

You're obsessed with this guy. No one can say anything remotely critical or analytical of LeBron without you getting your period.

[Inactive]

In 09, he shot .646 on his layups, and attempted 6 per game. He dunked 1.9 times per game. In 2010, he shot .679 on layups, and attempted 6 per game. He dunked 1.7 times per game. In 2011, he shot .645 on layups, and attempted 5.7 per game. He dunked 1.6 times per game. In 2012 he's shot .704 on layups, and attempted 4 per game. He's dunked 1.8 times per game.

If his athleticism really declined significantly, wouldn't we see a more substantial reduction in his dunks, or his efficiency at the basket?

I would agree that Lebron looked a little bit less explosive last year, but I don't personally see any difference between Lebron this year, and a couple years ago. Maybe there is one, but either way, it hasn't been big enough to effect his numbers. I'd like to see someone post some side by side videos comparing his speed, and vertical from different years.

[LA_Showtime]

In 09, he shot .646 on his layups, and attempted 6 per game. He dunked 1.9 times per game. In 2010, he shot .679 on layups, and attempted 6 per game. He dunked 1.7 times per game. In 2011, he shot .645 on layups, and attempted 5.7 per game. He dunked 1.6 times per game. In 2012 he's shot .704 on layups, and attempted 4 per game. He's dunked 1.8 times per game.

If his athleticism really declined significantly, wouldn't we see a more substantial reduction in his dunks, or his efficiency at the basket?

I would agree that Lebron looked a little bit less explosive last year, but I don't personally see any difference between Lebron this year, and a couple years ago. Maybe there is one, but either way, it hasn't been big enough to effect his numbers. I'd like to see someone post some side by side videos comparing his speed, and vertical from different years.

And that's why stats don't tell the whole story. They don't consider that LeBron had Wade and Bosh as teammates, or that the Heat were the most dangerous fast break team in the league. Just watch games. His finishing ability at the rim is noticeably worse than it used to be.

[SwooshReturns]

In 09, he shot .646 on his layups, and attempted 6 per game. He dunked 1.9 times per game. In 2010, he shot .679 on layups, and attempted 6 per game. He dunked 1.7 times per game. In 2011, he shot .645 on layups, and attempted 5.7 per game. He dunked 1.6 times per game. In 2012 he's shot .704 on layups, and attempted 4 per game. He's dunked 1.8 times per game.
Jesus ... athleticism measured in stats? Now I've heard it all.

[Inactive]

Jesus ... athleticism measured in stats? Now I've heard it all.Did you not read the rest of the post? I didn't say "this means his athleticism didn't decline". I effectively said "I don't see it, and the evidence seems to show that his game hasn't really changed, but maybe there was some small decline".


And that's why stats don't tell the whole story. They don't consider that LeBron had Wade and Bosh as teammates, or that the Heat were the most dangerous fast break team in the league. Just watch games. His finishing ability at the rim is noticeably worse than it used to be.A while ago, someone posted they thought Kobe made 95+% of his clutch freethrows, and were asking for numbers to back it up. Numbers were posted from a few years ago, and Kobe shot approx. his season average, on clutch freethrows.

Stats don't tell the whole story, but eyes, and perceptions tell lies. There are people in this thread, who can watch the same videos, and come to different conclusions. You can't assume that yours are the right ones, if you don't have objective evidence to support them. That's why I didn't make any definitive assertion, and requested side by side video, with timestamps, to compare.

[ShaqAttack3234]

He's definitely lost some athleticism, but he's definitely still well above average.

This game has a lot of nice plays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg8knyvgpJE#t=1m14s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg8knyvgpJE#t=1m50s

A play like this is probably where you see the biggest difference. With the shot clock running down, he'd almost certainly settle for a jumper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg8knyvgpJE#t=2m25s

With that being said, his jumper in Miami has been better, and he's done a better job this season of moving without the ball and being less ball-dominant which is important when it comes to winning a title.

I agree with those who say he seems more athletic than last season, but I don't see any real weight loss. In fact, he's looked about the same size during his last 2 seasons in Cleveland and first 2 in Miami. He already claimed 260 in 2008, and Lebron himself said he was 8 pounds heavier than that in '09 while a Cavs source said he was 265-270.


In an attempt to settle the matter last week I brought a scale to my interview with James at a ballroom in San Francisco's St. Regis Hotel. He laughed, but didn't get on. "I can't let everybody know everything about LeBron," said James, who more than any other star understands the value of mystique. He did joke that he'd "gotten fat" -- this from a man with 5% body fat whose raised veins run like tiny interstates up his arms and calves -- then hemmed and hawed before confiding that he had gained eight pounds this summer "even though I was trying to lose 10." That said, a Cavs source puts James's weight "between 265 and 270."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_ballard/01/27/lebron.james/

265-270 seems right for the past 4 seasons. Losing some weight may help him regain some explosiveness, but it's difficult to say how much he could really lose. The man was 245 at the pre-draft camp as an 18 year old, he's simply a heavy guy naturally and has never been out of shape. Kobe did regain some explosiveness in '08 after dropping to 200-205, but those 2 are opposites in that Kobe is naturally lighter and has had knee problems when he's tried to bulk up, while Lebron at less than 260 is really a stretch. The weight probably does matter more as he ages.

The biggest thing for Lebron is to be mentally prepared for the finals like most great players have been. I won't be able to think of any excuse if they don't win. Other than Shaq and Kobe in '01, I can't think of another time that a team has arguably had the 2 best players in the league, and unlike that team, Miami has a 3rd all-star, a 7-time all-star at that, along with a terrific cast of role players(Haslem, Chalmers, Cole, Miller, Battier).

They should've won last season, and this team is better, while the team that beat them last season isn't as good. No team has the star power or overall talent they do.


In 09, he shot .646 on his layups, and attempted 6 per game. He dunked 1.9 times per game. In 2010, he shot .679 on layups, and attempted 6 per game. He dunked 1.7 times per game. In 2011, he shot .645 on layups, and attempted 5.7 per game. He dunked 1.6 times per game. In 2012 he's shot .704 on layups, and attempted 4 per game. He's dunked 1.8 times per game.

If his athleticism really declined significantly, wouldn't we see a more substantial reduction in his dunks, or his efficiency at the basket?

I think Lebron has been great this season, but the dunk/lay up numbers have clearly benefited from this team running far more than any other team in Lebron's career. He's also cutting more and getting more easy baskets that way(which is a positive, but it's also easier to dunk that way), and overall, I see him playing better with Wade and benefiting more from Wade's presence than last season.

[LA_Showtime]

... Everyone who's not retarded realizes he's lost explosiveness and quickness. I could waste my time and find a bunch of different examples on YouTube, but why would I do that? Just compare the responses that are pro-loss vs. the guys who think he's still the same player. It's painfully obvious which group's only BSing because they've got some weird infatuation with the guy.

[Inactive]

... Everyone who's not retarded realizes he's lost explosiveness and quickness. I could waste my time and find a bunch of different examples on YouTube, but why would I do that? Just compare the responses that are pro-loss vs. the guys who think he's still the same player. It's painfully obvious which group's only BSing because they've got some weird infatuation with the guy.... Everyone who's not retarded realizes he hasn't lost any significant athleticism. I could waste my time and find a bunch of different examples on YouTube, but why would I do that? Just compare the responses that are pro-loss vs. the guys who think he's still the same player. It's painfully obvious which group's only BSing because they make assertions without evidence, insult any persons who question them, and refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't support their assertion.

[d21221hk]

... Everyone who's not retarded realizes he hasn't lost any significant athleticism. I could waste my time and find a bunch of different examples on YouTube, but why would I do that? Just compare the responses that are pro-loss vs. the guys who think he's still the same player. It's painfully obvious which group's only BSing because they make assertions without evidence, insult any persons who question them, and refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't support their assertion.
:applause:

[LA_Showtime]

... Everyone who's not retarded realizes he hasn't lost any significant athleticism. I could waste my time and find a bunch of different examples on YouTube, but why would I do that? Just compare the responses that are pro-loss vs. the guys who think he's still the same player. It's painfully obvious which group's only BSing because they make assertions without evidence, insult any persons who question them, and refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't support their assertion.

I'm done with this thread since it's obvious you just want to argue, but if you really want "evidence" then go watch him play and compare it to video from his days as a Cavalier. I can only assume you hardly ever watch LeBron play if you think he's still the same explosive, dynamic athlete he was in Cleveland. The days where he'll blow by people using his quickness and explode over 2 or 3 defenders are gone.

[Inactive]

I'm done with this thread since it's obvious you just want to argue, but if you really want "evidence" then go watch him play and compare it to video from his days as a Cavalier. I can only assume you hardly ever watch LeBron play if you think he's still the same explosive, dynamic athlete he was in Cleveland. The days where he'll blow by people using his quickness and explode over 2 or 3 defenders are gone.Yes, I would prefer an actual argument, over an assertion, and some insults. I don't actually have a strong opinion on the topic, and could be easily convinced either way.

I've watched virtually all of his games, since 09. Since that doesn't fit your agenda, I must be blind, or stupid, right?

[Carbine]

He's definitely lost some athleticism, but he's definitely still well above average.

This game has a lot of nice plays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg8knyvgpJE#t=1m14s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg8knyvgpJE#t=1m50s

A play like this is probably where you see the biggest difference. With the shot clock running down, he'd almost certainly settle for a jumper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg8knyvgpJE#t=2m25s

With that being said, his jumper in Miami has been better, and he's done a better job this season of moving without the ball and being less ball-dominant which is important when it comes to winning a title.

I agree with those who say he seems more athletic than last season, but I don't see any real weight loss. In fact, he's looked about the same size during his last 2 seasons in Cleveland and first 2 in Miami. He already claimed 260 in 2008, and Lebron himself said he was 8 pounds heavier than that in '09 while a Cavs source said he was 265-270.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_ballard/01/27/lebron.james/

265-270 seems right for the past 4 seasons. Losing some weight may help him regain some explosiveness, but it's difficult to say how much he could really lose. The man was 245 at the pre-draft camp as an 18 year old, he's simply a heavy guy naturally and has never been out of shape. Kobe did regain some explosiveness in '08 after dropping to 200-205, but those 2 are opposites in that Kobe is naturally lighter and has had knee problems when he's tried to bulk up, while Lebron at less than 260 is really a stretch. The weight probably does matter more as he ages.

The biggest thing for Lebron is to be mentally prepared for the finals like most great players have been. I won't be able to think of any excuse if they don't win. Other than Shaq and Kobe in '01, I can't think of another time that a team has arguably had the 2 best players in the league, and unlike that team, Miami has a 3rd all-star, a 7-time all-star at that, along with a terrific cast of role players(Haslem, Chalmers, Cole, Miller, Battier).

They should've won last season, and this team is better, while the team that beat them last season isn't as good. No team has the star power or overall talent they do.



I think Lebron has been great this season, but the dunk/lay up numbers have clearly benefited from this team running far more than any other team in Lebron's career. He's also cutting more and getting more easy baskets that way(which is a positive, but it's also easier to dunk that way), and overall, I see him playing better with Wade and benefiting more from Wade's presence than last season.


That triple threat swing through to the baseline drive you linked, Bron has displayed that exact type of athleticism this year. You haven't been watching Bron if you don't think he can replicate that.

[Bob Cousy]

the athleticism he has lost marginal at best ...

the problem is one side of the fence is overstating the loss of explosiveness and the other side is refusing to acknowledge it at all.

[LA_Showtime]

the athleticism he has lost marginal at best ...

the problem is one side of the fence is overstating the loss of explosiveness and the other side is refusing to acknowledge it at all.

The only person who is overstating LeBron's diminished athleticism is Indian Guy, who seems to think LeBron is a step away from becoming a crippled man. :oldlol:

[Hoopz2332]

it's 2016 and he's still a beast athletically:pimp:

[BigKAT]

:biggums:

people thought he lost explosiveness when he was 27?
lolwhat

[JZ600]

it's 2016 and he's still a beast athletically:pimp:
Just when the whole world is constantly talking about his decline, bam goat finals performance:cheers:

[Hoopz2332]

:biggums:

people thought he lost explosiveness when he was 27?
lolwhat


:oldlol:

[FatComputerNerd]

helluva bump :lol

[ZMonkey11]

Fact: LeBron has lost athleticism clearly. He does't dunk with his head at the basket on the regular. He doesn't blow passed people anymore, and in combination with bad footwork, gets stuck at times.

Fact: LeBron still has over a 35 inch vertical EASILY. He had moments where he displayed 40 inch verts last year. And he is ten times stronger than when he came into the league. So his bully ball has gone to super saiyan levels.

So, has he lost athleticism in some areas? Yes. Has he gained athleticism in others? Yes.

Is he still the most dominant player in the NBA? Without question.

[Keno]

lebron never loses. :pimp:

[feyki]

:biggums:

people thought he lost explosiveness when he was 27?
lolwhat


"Some"

He wasn't explosive as his 2009 form in his Heat days .

He lost some more past two years . But still too much for the league , no doubt .

[tmacattack33]

There was indeed some loss of explosiveness/quickness by Lebron from his 2006-2009 days to his Miami days. He was very much a 6'9 Russell Westbrook in 2009.

But it wasn't too much of a decline...and his improvement with his jump shot made up for it.

[feyki]

There was indeed some loss of explosiveness/quickness by Lebron from his 2006-2009 days to his Miami days. He was very much a 6'9 Russell Westbrook in 2009.

But it wasn't too much of a decline...and his improvement with his jump shot made up for it.

Exactly .

[Paul George 24]

watching clips from his cavs days, he was changing directions way more fluidly then now, way more explosive too. The only reason why he's shooting a higher percentage now is more ball movement and a better jumpshot
HE STILL CAN'T SHOTS :lol

[ballin33]

Lol why does lebron get held to impossible standards. Everybody loses athleticism after around 28, if he didn't people would scream roids. I say right now he is a 7.5/10 athletically, I actually think he is more fluid, flexible; and agile then he was before but he has lost explosivess. Makes up for it work strength and IQ