Seriously Derrick Rose can be Allen Iverson if he tried

[KG5MVP]

It isn't hard to be an Allen Iverson, any good scorer can score at Iverson's numbers if they let go of their FG%, rebounding, assists, and defense.

If Derrick Rose decided to become selfish and a cancer, he can focus purely on scoring, ignore passing, defense, team work, and most importantly, his efficiency. He can shoot 8 more shots per game that gets him to 30+ PPG, and his fg% would drop to Iverson's career average of 43%.

It isn't hard to be an Iverson. Heck, Westbrook, Deron Williams, and alot other players can be Iverson too by chucking alot and ignore teamwork and defense.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Allen Iverson is actually a good comparison for Derrick Rose.

Except he's bigger, stronger, faster, MAYBE quicker ... can leap and has better body control.

Has better basketball skills, has a higher bball IQ, already probably a better defender and cares purely about winning and does whatever his team needs him to do to win.

Derrick Rose is a bigger, improved version of Allen Iverson.

[chains5000]

I never liked AI, but the level of the disrespect he gets here is incredible.
A cancer doesn't win an MVP and lead his team to the Finals.

[LosBulls]

He can be what 75% of ISH thought he was, but will never be what Allen Iverson really was or what AI was capable of being with out David Stern tearing down his career.
Coming from a Bulls fan, Allen Iverson had the potential to be the GOAT and im serious. He alone took the 76ers to the finals with his second option being who? Larry Hughes?
Come on, the second best player on that team was Dikembe Mutombo and he got shit on by shaq.
I don't see DRose getting us to the finals this year and DRose actually has good backup.

I feel that many posters on this board underrate what dedication and heart Allen Iverson spilled on to this game of basketball. Iverson wasn't just good not only because people liked seeing the shortest guy on the court dominating, but because he did the impossible and unthinkable and he always somehow got his team through.
We will never see another guy under 6 feet tall devour teams like AI did and I will be amazed if we do as long as im alive.

Just my 2 cents.

[Samurai Swoosh]

but the level of the disrespect he gets here is incredible.
A cancer doesn't win an MVP and lead his team to the Finals.
Agree with this as well. Would rep if I could. If Iverson had a better mind set for the game. Think current Derrick Rose if he still wanted to score ... or if he was a pass first PG ala Nash, Kidd, CP3, Deron Williams with that type of mindset he would've been insane. Problem is ... he actually wasn't a great passer. Didn't have the best court vision for a PG. He truly was a SG stuck in a PGs body. Rose skill set can play elements of both guard spots. Which is what he's having to do for Chicago, anyway.

[alwaysunny]

I never liked AI, but the level of the disrespect he gets here is incredible.
A cancer doesn't win an MVP and lead his team to the Finals.

..and pull out an epic win over a team that hasn't lost in the entire playoffs.

[Walduś]

poor mans iverson.

[griffmoney1784]

why would rose want to be like the most selfish idiot in nba history

if iverson would have accepted his role as a 5 foot 11 point guard instead of always trying to be a 6foot6 shooting guard. maybe his teams would have done a bit better

atleast rose understands how to meet half way

[Go Getter]

He can be what Allen Iverson was, but will never be what Allen Iverson was capable of being. Coming from a Bulls fan, Allen Iverson had the potential to be the GOAT and im serious. He alone took the 76ers to the finals with his second option being who? Larry Hughes?

Come on, the second best player on that team was Dikembe Mutombo and he got shit on by shaq.

I don't see DRose getting us to the finals this year and DRose actually has good backup.

I feel that many posters on this board underrate what dedication and heart Allen Iverson spilled on to this game of basketball. Iverson wasn't just good because people liked seeing the shortest guy on the court dominating, he did the impossible and unthinkable.

We will never see another guy under 6 feet tall devour teams like AI did and I will be amazed if we do as long as im alive.

Just my 2 cents.


The East is a lot more competitive NOW than it was back then though.

[chains5000]

why would rose want to be like the most selfish idiot in nba history

if iverson would have accepted his role as a 5 foot 11 point guard instead of always trying to be a 6foot6 shooting guard. maybe his teams would have done a bit better

atleast rose understands how to meet half way
Anybody who's seen AI play knows he was better at SG.

[Samurai Swoosh]

why would rose want to be like the most selfish idiot in nba history

if iverson would have accepted his role as a 5 foot 11 point guard instead of always trying to be a 6foot6 shooting guard. maybe his teams would have done a bit better

atleast rose understands how to meet half way
This is actually a pretty solid post. Which is what I was getting at with my last post.

With that said Iverson is still criminally underrated on these boards by knuckle heads and youngins who only saw him in Detroit and Memphis after he became an alcoholic gambling junkie and threw away his career.

He had loads of talent, and what I enjoyed seeing more was LOADS of heart.

Rose is somewhere in the middle. Not near as naturally explosive. But he's more effecient, and might be a better winner. Not as individually dominant, but knows how to play the team game while still getting his.

[Samurai Swoosh]

The East is a lot more competitive NOW than it was back then though.
This as well.

Ray Allen / Glenn Robinson's Milwaukee Bucks, Jason Kidd's New Jersey Nets, OLD Reggie Miller's Indiana Pacers and Vince Carter's Toronto Raptors

Aren't beating

Dwyane Wade / LeBron James / Chris Bosh's Miami Heat, The Big Five's Boston Celtics, and Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic

[LosBulls]

why would rose want to be like the most selfish idiot in nba history

if iverson would have accepted his role as a 5 foot 11 point guard instead of always trying to be a 6foot6 shooting guard. maybe his teams would have done a bit better

atleast rose understands how to meet half way

If Iverson would of "accepted his role" he would of been out of the NBA years ago and the 76ers wouldn't of accomplished shit for 20 years.

[chains5000]

This as well.

Ray Allen / Glenn Robinson's Milwaukee Bucks, Jason Kidd's New Jersey Nets, OLD Reggie Miller's Indiana Pacers and Vince Carter's Toronto Raptors

Aren't beating

Dwyane Wade / LeBron James / Chris Bosh's Miami Heat, The Big Five's Boston Celtics, and Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic
IIRC Kidd was still in Phoenix.

[jrong]

He can be what Allen Iverson was, but will never be what Allen Iverson was capable of being. Coming from a Bulls fan, Allen Iverson had the potential to be the GOAT and im serious. He alone took the 76ers to the finals with his second option being who? Larry Hughes?

Come on, the second best player on that team was Dikembe Mutombo and he got shit on by shaq.

I don't see DRose getting us to the finals this year and DRose actually has good backup.

I feel that many posters on this board underrate what dedication and heart Allen Iverson spilled on to this game of basketball. Iverson wasn't just good because people liked seeing the shortest guy on the court dominating, he did the impossible and unthinkable.

We will never see another guy under 6 feet tall devour teams like AI did and I will be amazed if we do as long as im alive.

Just my 2 cents.

Hughes was a Golden State Warrior when the Sixers went to the Finals.

Topic: Having watched him more in his breakout season, Rose does remind a lot of Iverson. As was alluded above, he's a bigger version and moderately more efficient with much better intangibles but obviously not as explosive either. Also, to whatever extent Rose can be considered a legitimate PG, he's definitely more of one than Iverson, though AI did play point sometimes.

[flipogb]

the way Iverson played during his prime was just fine, he just couldn't adjust to age and not being the #1 option . so if Rose turns into that scorer and makes the finals then good for him, but he has to be able to return to distributing when he gets old

[LosBulls]

This as well.

Ray Allen / Glenn Robinson's Milwaukee Bucks, Jason Kidd's New Jersey Nets, OLD Reggie Miller's Indiana Pacers and Vince Carter's Toronto Raptors

Aren't beating

Dwyane Wade / LeBron James / Chris Bosh's Miami Heat, The Big Five's Boston Celtics, and Dwight Howard's Orlando Magic

Oh so your going to say Allen Iverson ALONE vs Kidds/Jeffersons/VCs/KMarts Nets is not as impressive as D-Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah Vs LeBron/Wade/Bosh??

[Samurai Swoosh]

IIRC Kidd was still in Phoenix.
2001 - 2002 Iverson was still a BEAST. That's my point too, but throw that team in there for good measure. haha

2001 - 2002 New Jersey Nets
2002 - 2003 New Jersey Nets
2006 - 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers

Are by far in my tenure watching basketball the absolute WORST teams from the East I've ever seen grace the NBA Finals floor.

Guess what they all have in common as well?

[KG5MVP]

First of all, Iverson shouldn't even have won MVP that year, his efficiency sucked balls, and Shaq was a beast that year.

Secondly, The year he went to Finals was one of the weakest eras for the eastern conference.

Iverson sucks, and will always be a inefficient cancer.

[LosBulls]

2001 - 2002 Iverson was still a BEAST. That's my point too, but throw that team in there for good measure. haha

2001 - 2002 New Jersey Nets
2002 - 2003 New Jersey Nets
2006 - 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers

Are by far in my tenure watching basketball the absolute WORST teams from the East I've ever seen grace the NBA Finals floor.

Guess what they all have in common as well?

Your underrating the Nets.

[TrueRob]

Prime Iverson averaged 31 PPG on 40% shooting. He took about 28 shots a game. I bet a lot of good scorers today could average at least 31 PPG if they took 28 shots.

[KG5MVP]

Your underrating the Nets.

the nets suck

[LosBulls]

First of all, Iverson shouldn't even have won MVP that year, his efficiency sucked balls, and Shaq was a beast that year.

Secondly, The year he went to Finals was one of the weakest eras for the eastern conference.

Iverson sucks, and will always be a inefficient cancer.

Yeah because Ol' boy over there KG was doing way worse than AI when he got his MVP and he aint ever got his team anywhere. So if KG can win one of those wack ass TWolves why can't AI win one on the Finals 76ers?

[KG5MVP]

Prime Iverson averaged 31 PPG on .40% shooting. He took about 28 shots a game. I bet a lot of good scorers today could average at least 31 PPG if they took 28 shots.

while ignoring other aspect of the game such as defense, rebounding, and asist

[Samurai Swoosh]

Oh so your going to say Allen Iverson ALONE vs Kidds/Jeffersons/VCs/KMarts Nets is not as impressive as D-Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah Vs LeBron/Wade/Bosh??
No I'm saying the teams Rose would have to face on his road to the Finals are VASTLY more difficult.

When Kidd was taking the Nets to the Finals in the early 2000's .. Vince Carter was not there. And yes Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson weren't all-stars, let alone superstars. And none of those teams I listed are beating

The South Beach Super Friends

The Boston Green Gang (possibly one of the best team's I've ever seen)

or Dwight Howard's Magic Men in all his beastly glory, surrounded by a firing squad with Jameer Nelson, JJ Redick, Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkaglu

[KG5MVP]

Yeah because Ol' boy over there KG was doing way worse than AI when he got his MVP and he aint ever got his team anywhere. So if KG can win one of those wack ass TWolves why can't AI win one on the Finals 76ers?

wtf are u saying?

[chains5000]

Let's see, that season his team was

PG: Snow
SG: AI
SF: George Lynch? (can't remember)
PF: Tyrone Hill (lol)
C: Mohammed (Mutombo after the trade)

with McKey and Geiger as best bench players.

Yeah, a dominant team. Anybody would have had a great season playing with them...

[TrueRob]

Let's see, that season his team was

PG: Snow
SG: AI
SF: George Lynch? (can't remember)
PF: Tyrone Hill (lol)
C: Mohammed (Mutombo after the trade)

with McKey and Geiger as best bench players.

Yeah, a dominant team. Anybody would have had a great season playing with them...

They mainly got by on their defense. They were a great defensive team under Larry Brown.

[LosBulls]

the nets suck

Modern Day Nets Starting Lineup:

C: Marc Gasol (Keith Van Horn)
PF: Kevin Love with defense (KMart)
SF: Andre Iguodala (RJ)
SG: Current Kobe (VC)
PG: Rondo with a J (Kidd)

[griffmoney1784]

If Iverson would of "accepted his role" he would of been out of the NBA years ago and the 76ers wouldn't of accomplished shit for 20 years.


wrong

22ppg and 9ast on good % should have been his average

30ppg and 5ast on bad % was what he decided to go for


instead of the sixers being able to have a tall capable SG on defense. they had to have 2 short back court players and have 1 of them get abused nightly by apposing teams SG's

iverson was better at SG because he didnt want to be a PG. he sucked at PG because he didnt try hard enough

[chains5000]

They mainly got by on their defense. They were a great defensive team under Larry Brown.
Yeah, that's why they needed someone like AI to take all those shots.

[Samurai Swoosh]

22ppg and 9ast on good % should have been his average
Just a few years ago, 2008 ...

This was basically his averages when he was with the Nuggets (and was their best player too) ... he toned down the chucking, upped the passing a little more and the Nuggets were better for it.

If only he still played defense and maturity and age set in for him at some point.

But alas the next year he got into boozing and gambling and the rest is history.

[LosBulls]

wrong

22ppg and 9ast on good % should have been his average

30ppg and 5ast on bad % was what he decided to go for


instead of the sixers being able to have a tall capable SG on defense. they had to have 2 short back court players and have 1 of them get abused nightly by apposing teams SG's

iverson was better at SG because he didnt want to be a PG. he sucked at PG because he didnt try hard enough

Yeah because he had people to get him 9 assists.

[chains5000]

wrong

22ppg and 9ast on good % should have been his average

30ppg and 5ast on bad % was what he decided to go for


instead of the sixers being able to have a tall capable SG on defense. they had to have 2 short back court players and have 1 of them get abused nightly by apposing teams SG's

iverson was better at SG because he didnt want to be a PG. he sucked at PG because he didnt try hard enough
The sixers had a tall PG who couldn't shoot (Snow)... A great match

[Samurai Swoosh]

Yeah because he had people to get him 9 assists.
Ask 2008 and 2009 CP3, who athletically and skill wise is similar to Iverson ... how to get the most out of lesser players.

Brown played him at SG for a reason. He wasn't accepting of the natural PG role.

[Dudley]

He can be what 75% of ISH thought he was, but will never be what Allen Iverson really was or what AI was capable of being with out David Stern tearing down his career.
Coming from a Bulls fan, Allen Iverson had the potential to be the GOAT and im serious. He alone took the 76ers to the finals with his second option being who? Larry Hughes?
Come on, the second best player on that team was Dikembe Mutombo and he got shit on by shaq.
I don't see DRose getting us to the finals this year and DRose actually has good backup.

I feel that many posters on this board underrate what dedication and heart Allen Iverson spilled on to this game of basketball. Iverson wasn't just good not only because people liked seeing the shortest guy on the court dominating, but because he did the impossible and unthinkable and he always somehow got his team through.
We will never see another guy under 6 feet tall devour teams like AI did and I will be amazed if we do as long as im alive.

Just my 2 cents.

Lots of respect brother, I totally agree!

[chains5000]

Ask 2008 and 2009 CP3, who athletically and skill wise is similar to Iverson ... how to get the most out of lesser players.

Brown played him at SG for a reason. He wasn't accepting of the natural PG role.
Paul's got better offensive players in his team that AI had then.

[LosBulls]

Ask 2008 and 2009 CP3, who athletically and skill wise is similar to Iverson ... how to get the most out of lesser players.

Brown played him at SG for a reason. He wasn't accepting of the natural PG role.

DId AI have David West (All-Star)?

[Go Getter]

wrong

22ppg and 9ast on good % should have been his average

30ppg and 5ast on bad % was what he decided to go for


instead of the sixers being able to have a tall capable SG on defense. they had to have 2 short back court players and have 1 of them get abused nightly by apposing teams SG's

iverson was better at SG because he didnt want to be a PG. he sucked at PG because he didnt try hard enough


I agree with this.


AI could have been the one of the GOAT at the PG position if he wanted to. A modern day Tiny Archibald.

[chains5000]

I agree with this.


AI could have been the one of the GOAT at the PG position if he wanted to. A modern day Tiny Archibald.
This is like when people say Dirk should play a different, "proper PF" style...
He played best that way, why would he have to change? To play the "right way"?
If a coach like Brown played him at SG, it was with good reason.

[Samurai Swoosh]

DId AI have David West (All-Star)?
No, he had Mutombo who was an All Star ... who was a legit All Star before Iverson.

CP3 made David West

[chains5000]

No, he had Mutombo who was an All Star ... who was a legit All Star before Iverson.

CP3 made David West
As far as offense (and assists, which is what we're talking about), West >>>> Mutombo.
And Mutombo was a midseason trade...

[Go Getter]

The sixers had a tall PG who couldn't shoot (Snow)... A great match
Snow was 6'3" at best, not exactly a tall PG or a guy that could bother upper echelon 2's well.

[KG5MVP]

As far as offense (and assists, which is what we're talking about), West >>>> Mutombo.
And Mutombo was a midseason trade...

wtf mutombo was the anchor of that 76ers team. and so how does him being a midseason trade have to do with the playoffs?

[Go Getter]

This is like when people say Dirk should play a different, "proper PF" style...
He played best that way, why would he have to change? To play the "right way"?
If a coach like Brown played him at SG, it was with good reason.


Yeah and they came up short because they built the team around a sub 6 foot 2-guard.

[chains5000]

Snow was 6'3" at best, not exactly a tall PG or a guy that could bother upper echelon 2's well.
He was tall enough to allow AI play PG on D, enabling him to play SG on offense.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Back to the point of the thread topic ...

[chains5000]

Yeah and they came up short because they built the team around a sub 6 foot 2-guard.
Or you could also say "they made the Finals cause they build the team around a sub 6 foot 2-guard".
You know only two teams made the Finals, right? It's not like losing there was a failure for that team.

[IGOTGAME]

I can only imagine how much AI would score in this no touch league. Prim AI would have a year scoriing 35 imo

[chains5000]

wtf mutombo was the anchor of that 76ers team. and so how does him being a midseason trade have to do with the playoffs?
The topic now was AI's assists, not their D. Also, the assists average for the season, not the playoffs.
Reading comprehension?

[TrueRob]

Fully healthy, this season's Bulls > 2001 Sixers.

[KG5MVP]

Fully healthy, this season's Bulls > 2001 Sixers.

yes

[chains5000]

Fully healthy, this season's Bulls > 2001 Sixers.
Agreed

[IGOTGAME]

Fully healthy, this season's Bulls > 2001 Sixers.

Fully Healthy this Bulls team is >>>> then any team AI had in his prime.

[KG5MVP]

Fully Healthy this Bulls team is >>>> then any team AI had in his prime.

I think nuggets was better

[IGOTGAME]

I think nuggets was better

You think that was prime AI? get outta here. AI's speed and quickness was nowhere near the same at that point.

[chains5000]

You think that was prime AI? get outta here. AI's speed and quickness was nowhere near the same at that point.
Exactly.

[KG5MVP]

You think that was prime AI? get outta here. AI's speed and quickness was nowhere near the same at that point.

but he was more efficient

[chains5000]

but he was more efficient
Which doesn't mean he was better

[Dbrog]

Call me when D Rose has a year where he goes for 33, 7, 3, 2 a night.
Then has a 31, 5, 5, 3 year and also $hits on whatever the best team is in the playoffs.

[Go Getter]

He was tall enough to allow AI play PG on D, enabling him to play SG on offense.

my point is that if they would have built a more balanced team, not just four defensive players around AI they might have been champs.


Or you could also say "they made the Finals cause they build the team around a sub 6 foot 2-guard".
You know only two teams made the Finals, right? It's not like losing there was a failure for that team.


I don't disagree with this. See my previous statement, but the fact remains, they could have been a more balanced complete team instead of a very predictable one with AI playing Superman every night at 6'0".

[chains5000]

my point is that if they would have built a more balanced team, not just four defensive players around AI they might have been champs.
How many balanced teams fail every year?
And you talk like it's easy to build the right team... It's not like those sixers had trade pieces...




I don't disagree with this. See my previous statement, but the fact remains, they could have been a more balanced complete team instead of a very predictable one with AI playing Superman every night at 6'0".
I think they simply played their cards the best they could.

[lilojmayo]

Allen Iverson had a lot of swag. Which made him appear better than he really was. Still an all-time great.

Derrick Rose is the best point guard in the league right now. You can tell the effort he gives each night, he lays it all out each night. Not many players in the NBA do that.

[Go Getter]

How many balanced teams fail every year?
And you talk like it's easy to build the right team... It's not like those sixers had trade pieces...




I think they simply played their cards the best they could.


Hey you make some strong points man I'm just playing Devil's advocate.

I don't think Iverson was a cancer or a bad player he is one of my personal favorites.

I just think maybe becoming the best little man scorer ever got in the way of him being the best player he could have been and more of a winner, but who knows, he could have done those things (I described earlier) and still not gottten a ring:confusedshrug:

[HorryIsMyMVP]

I'm still not buying into the Derrick Rose mantra of doing whatever it takes to win. He hasn't played as a pass first at all this year or any year. So I guess as long as he is needed to jack it up, he will be happy.

[Chicago Brawls]

I'm still not buying into the Derrick Rose mantra of doing whatever it takes to win. He hasn't played as a pass first at all this year or any year. So I guess as long as he is needed to jack it up, he will be happy.

You shall be surprised sooner or later.

Taking into account the injuries, if it wasn't for him we would have had a reversed record (14-28).

Rose looks to pass first. He dishes +10 "assists" per game. If his teammates make the shots you will see that number on the boxscore. If they missed them (more often then not) you will see Rose with 30 plus points.

He just wants to "ween".

[HorryIsMyMVP]

You shall be surprised sooner or later.

Taking into account the injuries, if it wasn't for him we would have had a reversed record (14-28).

Rose looks to pass first. He dishes +10 "assists" per game. If his teammates make the shots you will see that number on the boxscore. If they missed them (more often then not) you will see Rose with 30 plus points.

He just wants to "ween".
That is great but A.I. got wins to. Doesn't make him a winner. Winners like to win as a team.

[blacknapalm]

AI's stats were sort of inflated since he had the ball in his hands so much. many of their possessions either resulted in a AI shot, a fast break or pass late in the shot clock. an all-time great, awesome in his prime, but he also had some real lackluster playoff performances.

rose is more of a cross of AI/wade. rose loves the pick n' pop, he's very effective in it but it would be nice to see him make some sleek passes in those areas. he had to compensate for some scoring this season and he's certainly a shoot first PG. i think all that will level out but he needs to cool off on his 3 point shooting even though he's improved a lot, he's no ray allen.

[Chicago Brawls]

That is great but A.I. got wins to. Doesn't make him a winner. Winners like to win as a team.

Sure. The thing is, Chicago can only win as a team as of right now.

Only when the team it's not responding, Derrick takes more shots.

That's a leader in my book.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Sure. The thing is, Chicago can only win as a team as of right now.

Only when the team it's not responding, Derrick takes more shots.

That's a leader in my book.
I don't know how you figured that out. I see literally no evidence of Rose ever building team chemistry with the Bulls. Rose can't make mediocre players seem better then they actually are. He is basically like a Kobe Bryant. Bring him a big man that can rebound and occasionally he might defer.

[Chicago Brawls]

I don't know how you figured that out. I see literally no evidence of Rose ever building team chemistry with the Bulls. Rose can't make mediocre players seem better then they actually are. He is basically like a Kobe Bryant. Bring him a big man that can rebound and occasionally he might defer.

Team chemistry? Make mediocre players seem better?

There's a reason Derrick Rose was number 1 pick three years ago. Chicago Bulls team sucked.

In his first year, in his rookie year he took a poor team to a epic game 7 with the future champs. Thats evidence he made a mediocre team perform better then expected.

We are 28-14. We played 9 games fully healthy. Derrick averaged in those games 11 assists. Without Boozer and Noah we are only winning because of (said lack) of team chemistry.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Team chemistry? Make mediocre players seem better?

There's a reason Derrick Rose was number 1 pick three years ago. Chicago Bulls team sucked.

In his first year, in his rookie year he took a poor team to a epic game 7 with the future champs. Thats evidence he made a mediocre team perform better then expected.

We are 28-14. We played 9 games fully healthy. Derrick averaged in those games 11 assists. Without Boozer and Noah we are only winning because of (said lack) of team chemistry.
You have a good record because D-Rose is an unstoppable scoring beast that rarely defers to his awful team. We talking about practice? How is PRACTICE going to make my TEAM MATES BETTER?!?!?

[rodman91]

Okay i didnt post anything so far but this is time i can't just let it go.Have you ever watched Iverson in prime? Allen Iverson in prime was the only player in the league unguardable except Shaq.I think he dropped 30 points in one half against 2001 Lakers in Finals.He won that the game almost by himself.And led his team to finals.Allen Iverson in prime was better than many legendary players but because of he never had push from David Stern, he is not respected today among teenagers.He was like rebel son of Stern when kobe was his 2nd Jordan.
And Im a bulls fan.I have respect for Derrick Rose..I'm very glad he is a great player and i hope will be even better than iverson but its not easy.Don't say next iverson everytime you see fast,agile,shorter guard with scoring skills.Its same like saying "Next MJ" for every scorer athletic guard.

:no:

[2LeTTeRS]

It isn't hard to be an Allen Iverson, any good scorer can score at Iverson's numbers if they let go of their FG%, rebounding, assists, and defense.

If Derrick Rose decided to become selfish and a cancer, he can focus purely on scoring, ignore passing, defense, team work, and most importantly, his efficiency. He can shoot 8 more shots per game that gets him to 30+ PPG, and his fg% would drop to Iverson's career average of 43%.

It isn't hard to be an Iverson. Heck, Westbrook, Deron Williams, and alot other players can be Iverson too by chucking alot and ignore teamwork and defense.

It isn't hard to be an Iverson? Look at guys like Nick Young, JR Smith, etc. who have the instant offense type mindset that AI had. You see how they always tend to be in their coaches dog-house? Its because even for an insanely talented offensive player drives their coaches crazy with some of the shots they take. AI managed to stay on his coaches good side enough to be allowed, no make that encouraged to take 25+ shots a game because thats what was best for his team.

Now instead of being 6'6 like those guys imagine that your only 6' tall and weigh about 165 at most. Doesn't sound too easy does it?


Just a few years ago, 2008 ...

This was basically his averages when he was with the Nuggets (and was their best player too) ... he toned down the chucking, upped the passing a little more and the Nuggets were better for it.

If only he still played defense and maturity and age set in for him at some point.

But alas the next year he got into boozing and gambling and the rest is history.

Do you really think AI only just started drinking and gambling when he was traded to the Pistons? I can guarantee you he has been a partier since at least his days at Georgetown. Just because the details of his indiscretions just became public then does not mean that is when they started.

[Bigsmoke]

As far as offense (and assists, which is what we're talking about), West >>>> Mutombo.
And Mutombo was a midseason trade...

Iverson had Theo Ratliff who was an All Star before the injury .:no: He was almost as good as Dikembe Mutombo that year

[alexthegr8]

Team chemistry? Make mediocre players seem better?

There's a reason Derrick Rose was number 1 pick three years ago. Chicago Bulls team sucked.

In his first year, in his rookie year he took a poor team to a epic game 7 with the future champs. Thats evidence he made a mediocre team perform better then expected.

We are 28-14. We played 9 games fully healthy. Derrick averaged in those games 11 assists. Without Boozer and Noah we are only winning because of (said lack) of team chemistry.

The Bulls team that won the lottery the year that they picked Rose didn't really suck (at least not at the level that it traditionally takes to get a no.1 pick.) The Bulls only had a miniscule chance of winning the pick as they had one of the best records of all the non-playoff teams, they just defied the odds in winning the number one pick.

During Rose's rookie season the Bulls actually struggled quite a bit for long stretches and finished with a mediocre record (41-41 I believe), and Rose wasn't close to the first option on that team anyway; Gordon averaged 20 a game and earned himself a big payday, Salmons played very well for the team that season, and Cpt Kirk was pretty solid as well. Also, they took the Celtics to seven games in the post season that year, but it wasn't the year that we won the chip, and we didn't have KG available to us for that post season. I just wanted to correct the record a little for you.

With that said, Rose is still the shit, and Bulls fans are lucky as **** to have him on the team. I was reticent to say this initially, but he does have Iverson-like explosiveness, but he obviously has a superior build to go along with that speed and quickness. He's just an unbelievable package of talent.

[Bigsmoke]

I think nuggets was better

too unorganized

[Chicago Brawls]

The Bulls team that won the lottery the year that they picked Rose didn't really suck (at least not at the level that it traditionally takes to get a no.1 pick.) The Bulls only had a miniscule chance of winning the pick as they had one of the best records of all the non-playoff teams, they just defied the odds in winning the number one pick.

During Rose's rookie season the Bulls actually struggled quite a bit for long stretches and finished with a mediocre record (41-41 I believe), and Rose wasn't close to the first option on that team anyway; Gordon averaged 20 a game and earned himself a big payday, Salmons played very well for the team that season, and Cpt Kirk was pretty solid as well. Also, they took the Celtics to seven games in the post season that year, but it wasn't the year that we won the chip, and we didn't have KG available to us for that post season. I just wanted to correct the record a little for you.

With that said, Rose is still the shit, and Bulls fans are lucky as **** to have him on the team. I was reticent to say this initially, but he does have Iverson-like explosiveness, but he obviously has a superior build to go along with that speed and quickness. He's just an unbelievable package of talent.

Bulls were a lottery team. Thats my definition of "suckiness".

Rose was not the first option but was the point guard for a mediocre team that over achieved which was my main point.

True. The Celtics were not Champions that year. However, they were the reigning Champions which only reinforces my rationale.

Rose is also 22 so it's pretty unfair to compare him to a guy we saw for the past 15 years or so.

[markymark]

Okay i didnt post anything so far but this is time i can't just let it go.Have you ever watched Iverson in prime? Allen Iverson in prime was the only player in the league unguardable except Shaq.I think he dropped 30 points in one half against 2001 Lakers in Finals.He won that the game almost by himself.And led his team to finals.Allen Iverson in prime was better than many legendary players but because of he never had push from David Stern, he is not respected today among teenagers.He was like rebel son of Stern when kobe was his 2nd Jordan.
And Im a bulls fan.I have respect for Derrick Rose..I'm very glad he is a great player and i hope will be even better than iverson but its not easy.Don't say next iverson everytime you see fast,agile,shorter guard with scoring skills.Its same like saying "Next MJ" for every scorer athletic guard.

:no:

Thanks Dennis! Summed it up perfectly.

To the 5 yr old kids there: Rose is a beast, but he ain't got nothing on AI. That is all.

[blablabla]

A.I had one of the best primes ever. He was unguardable while being 6feet tall
Led his team to the finals, won MVP and was one of the top5 players for a few years
Rose is good pg, but we have a lot of them in the L. Nowhere near the level of A.I

[XxSMSxX]

Hey you make some strong points man I'm just playing Devil's advocate.

I don't think Iverson was a cancer or a bad player he is one of my personal favorites.

I just think maybe becoming the best little man scorer ever got in the way of him being the best player he could have been and more of a winner, but who knows, he could have done those things (I described earlier) and still not gottten a ring:confusedshrug:

AI's best talent was his scoring and he was on a team completely devoid of scoring power and he tried to fill that role. Which is pretty much why his FG% is so low, when your under 6 feet tall and you take 25+ shots it's hard to get up that many good shots. He did what was best for his team. Make no mistake AI wanted to win more than just about everyone

[InfiniteBaskets]

Let's see, that season his team was

PG: Snow
SG: AI
SF: George Lynch? (can't remember)
PF: Tyrone Hill (lol)
C: Mohammed (Mutombo after the trade)

with McKey and Geiger as best bench players.

Yeah, a dominant team. Anybody would have had a great season playing with them...

LeBron probably would win 67 games with that lineup.

[Go Getter]

AI's best talent was his scoring and he was on a team completely devoid of scoring power and he tried to fill that role. Which is pretty much why his FG% is so low, when your under 6 feet tall and you take 25+ shots it's hard to get up that many good shots. He did what was best for his team. Make no mistake AI wanted to win more than just about everyone


In retrospect maybe he didn't....he had heart, but if he wanted to win that bad he would have practiced harder and hit the weights and taken a lesser role.

[rodman91]

Thanks Dennis! Summed it up perfectly.

To the 5 yr old kids there: Rose is a beast, but he ain't got nothing on AI. That is all.

Anytime.. I think in USA people follow trends more.Dwight > Shaq, Kobe> Jordan.. Rose > Iverson.. What the hell is wrong with people in these day..they must have fish memories or they are really idiot as comparing Rose with today's iverson in besiktas..not his prime.People say he was best pound by pound but its kinda downgrading him.. he was just not the best little man but he was better than many superstars no matter how big their size.I'm totally sick of people who look at stats or rings to define greatness.

Love him or hate him..but he deserve some respect..Before saying canswer, know that he is the one drink his own blood for 3 minutes in late of a game just to not sent to bench by of referee.. Now look at todays stars.. Huge guys with heart of wnba players at best. :lol

P.S: Im proud that he plays for my team now :rockon:

[rodman91]

LeBron probably would win 67 games with that lineup.

Lebron is fantastic but i seriously don't think he can. His teams were not good, i agree but still was better than iverson had that year.Of course Cavs sucks without Lebron this year..but i dont think that team would be different than todays Cavs without AI.Plus Iverson was more suitable for that lineup than Lebron.

[lilojmayo]

Anytime.. I think in USA people follow trends more.Dwight > Shaq, Kobe> Jordan.. Rose > Iverson.. What the hell is wrong with people in these day..they must have fish memories or they are really idiot as comparing Rose with today's iverson in besiktas..not his prime.People say he was best pound by pound but its kinda downgrading him.. he was just not the best little man but he was better than many superstars no matter how big their size.I'm totally sick of people who look at stats or rings to define greatness.

Love him or hate him..but he deserve some respect..Before saying canswer, know that he is the one drink his own blood for 3 minutes in late of a game just to not sent to bench by of referee.. Now look at todays stars.. Huge guys with heart of wnba players at best. :lol

P.S: Im proud that he plays for my team now :rockon:

Not many people say Kobe is better than Jordan. They like to bring up that conversation, mainly the media, just because it is the playoffs and it is something to talk about and draws in ratings.

That's all. Comparing Jordan in the finals to Kobe in the finals speaks volumes.

[Mirjalovic]

In retrospect maybe he didn't....he had heart, but if he wanted to win that bad he would have practiced harder and hit the weights and taken a lesser role.

its ego. He tried to win with his own power. I consider that was good, if you excel in one ability, you must use it without hesitation.

[T-bomb 25]

A.I had one of the best primes ever. He was unguardable while being 6feet tall
Led his team to the finals, won MVP and was one of the top5 players for a few years
Rose is good pg, but we have a lot of them in the L. Nowhere near the level of A.ISorry but i just dont see unguardable shooting 40% on 28 shots,thats called being a gun where i come from and not in a good way.Rose is a way better overall player than Iverson who might just be the most overrated highly rated player in the history of basketball....

[Go Getter]

its ego. He tried to win with his own power. I consider that was good, if you excel in one ability, you must use it without hesitation.
We disagree on this then. Your statement holds true to some sports but not team sports. You have to sacrifice for your teammates and coaches.

[rodman91]

Not many people say Kobe is better than Jordan. They like to bring up that conversation, mainly the media, just because it is the playoffs and it is something to talk about and draws in ratings.

That's all. Comparing Jordan in the finals to Kobe in the finals speaks volumes.

Now its lesser due to kobe's stats but i remember the hype among fans too when he put up 81 points and the year he produce 35 ppg .. probably that hype will be all over again if he can make more rings than Jordan.

Sports are competitive and i understand people love comparision, though.But most of the time stats and rings dont tell the real story.

[T-bomb 25]

Rose is a cross between Kevin Johnson,D-Wade,and Stephon Marbury.......thats a hell of a mix and the Wade version is growing each game his ability is scary........

[Mirjalovic]

We disagree on this then. Your statement holds true to some sports but not team sports. You have to sacrifice for your teammates and coaches.

Thats why its called as ego. Sometimes, its good, made the Sixers go through the NBA Final, but sometimes hurt your team. But, face it,, he's a scorer, not a true passer. If Iverson acts to perform like John Stockton/another style, his team or even himself will hurting more, thats just not him..

[Bigsmoke]

Anytime.. I think in USA people follow trends more.Dwight > Shaq, Kobe> Jordan.. Rose > Iverson.. :rockon:

i agree but i think a lot of people go by the you dont know what u have until its gone myth and try to say a past player was 10x better than they actually were.

but I completey agree with the Shaq and Jordon thing but i dont know anybody who thinks Dwight is better than Shaq in his prime.

[artificial]

I don't see why the retarded OP talks as if he had any idea of how Iverson played like. Not as if he ever saw him play in his prime.

[Mirjalovic]

i dont know anybody who thinks Dwight is better than Shaq in his prime.
this guy

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5301910&postcount=2

[Nick Young]

I see Rose as much better than AI, he is huge for a PG and has potential to reach Baron Davis levels of defense if he starts working hard on that end. He isn't an undersized low percentage chucker who doesn't play defense like the most overrated player of all time AI was

[Bigsmoke]

this guy

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5301910&postcount=2
holy shit!

and this dude is from LA :oldlol:

[Nashty]

Why would he want to be Allen Iverson when he is already better than him ?

[Kellogs4toniee]

I think Rose being compared to Iverson is already a big compliment to Rose.

Ultimately I think the biggest separation of quality posters and not-so-good posters on ISH is that it's pretty obvious which one's actually write there opinions based on watching games, and which one's go off of articles, stats, and historical summaries only.

To those who watched him his entire career, similar to the new viewers who have now been watching Rose, Westbrook, and Eric Gordon there entire careers, Iverson is and will always be one of the greatest warriors to ever play the game of b-ball.

Granted there's plenty to knock on him, most noticeably his shot attempts, low field goal %, clear selfishness and inability to cope with benching towards the later part of his career. But the man is the epitome of everything the heart of basketball is about. Never been a big fan, but looking back now, I realize that watching him play in his prime is something that I will forever cherish throughout the rest of my life. Not for a while will a 6'0 Guard dominate the way Iverson did for that long of a time.

That's why all this who's better debate between Rose and Iverson is so trivial. As an enormous Bulls and Rose fan, I guarantee you that Rose would be delighted to know that he's already being compared to such a legend.

[GOBB]

I dont understand why some think it isnt hard to do what Allen Iverson did. Actually it is. And its unfair to compare a player who put over a decade of seasons in the NBA to someone who has just emerged as one of the top stars in the NBA. Rose career is just getting started. He has a ton of years left and room to rack up a host of things. Rose has the potential to become better than Allen Iverson was. He is progressing at a good pace so whats the rush?

[The_Yearning]

If he tried? So he isn't trying to score 30 a game now with the amount of shots he is taking as the PG? And with the help around him?

Lol Iverson was dropping 30 a game when the entire time defense was focused on stopping him and he still didn't give the ball up.

People who compare D-Rose to Iverson or say CPIII > Iverson is just laughable.

[XxSMSxX]

In retrospect maybe he didn't....he had heart, but if he wanted to win that bad he would have practiced harder and hit the weights and taken a lesser role.

How can he have taken a lesser role? You mean scoring wise? Because absolutely no one on his best teams could create consistently for themselves and I don't really even remember a player taking more bailout shots than Iverson back in the day. And if he hit the weights harder he'd be a lot slower, better to be a really, really quick short player than a slower more muscular player. If your quicker you can get your shots off quicker as well

[Pointguard]

AI's best talent was his scoring and he was on a team completely devoid of scoring power and he tried to fill that role. Which is pretty much why his FG% is so low, when your under 6 feet tall and you take 25+ shots it's hard to get up that many good shots. He did what was best for his team. Make no mistake AI wanted to win more than just about everyone

Yeah, I don't know of a player that took more lumps and bruises than Iverson - nobody now is remotely close. Even Shaq said he totally respects him for that. He was driven player that overcame a lot. He went heart, will and guts... . He carried a serious burden of scoring on that finals team. His team won as many games against LA as any team out West did so he deserves credit for that. He was singled out as the man to get for close to 100 games that year. Teams didn't even respect the second option.

PG: Snow
SG: AI
SF: George Lynch? (can't remember)
PF: Tyrone Hill (lol)
C: Mohammed (Mutombo after the trade)

with McKey and Geiger as best bench players.

All help was punishingly offensively challenged. Any player that was so severly isolated offensively all year long, deserves respect. He took hit after hit after hit and came back up just as determined. He couldn't look to the next guy. Yall keep acting like carrying a team is easy. Its one of the hardest things to do in the sport.

[Pointguard]

Derrick Rose has won more games this year than any other player. He is a true unique talent that works on his game and gets better and better every year and in different ways. Yall criticize his 3pt shot, yall blinked and now he is one of the better PG at it. Yall criticize his ability to get to the line, yall blinked and now he's there. He isn't a pure point, but he's proven to be the most valueable. The level of stretching to get at him is getting to be sad. He's way ahead of the game at his age. He doesn't have to catch up yall, yall have to catch up to what he's doing.

[GiveItToBurrito]

1. Iverson used to be an excellent defender, plus he was good in the passing lanes.

2. He averaged like 7 or 8 assists most year. Yes, it came about by dominating the ball and playing ridiculous minutes, but it still shows he could be a playmaker.

3. The low efficiency was in part due to his teammates and the offensive system. As a 32 year old - an age where short quick guards who can't shoot tend to be at best mediocre and more often than not out of the league - he had the highest fg% of his career. Why? Because he was playing on the Nuggets, a team with other guys who could create a shot.

[hkfosho]

If he tried? So he isn't trying to score 30 a game now with the amount of shots he is taking as the PG? And with the help around him?

Lol Iverson was dropping 30 a game when the entire time defense was focused on stopping him and he still didn't give the ball up.

People who compare D-Rose to Iverson or say CPIII > Iverson is just laughable.

drose is the best pg in the league. get over it stupid trash.

[XxSMSxX]

Yeah, I don't know of a player that took more lumps and bruises than Iverson - nobody now is remotely close. Even Shaq said he totally respects him for that. He was driven player that overcame a lot. He went heart, will and guts... . He carried a serious burden of scoring on that finals team. His team won as many games against LA as any team out West did so he deserves credit for that. He was singled out as the man to get for close to 100 games that year. Teams didn't even respect the second option.

PG: Snow
SG: AI
SF: George Lynch? (can't remember)
PF: Tyrone Hill (lol)
C: Mohammed (Mutombo after the trade)

with McKey and Geiger as best bench players.

All help was punishingly offensively challenged. Any player that was so severly isolated offensively all year long, deserves respect. He took hit after hit after hit and came back up just as determined. He couldn't look to the next guy. Yall keep acting like carrying a team is easy. Its one of the hardest things to do in the sport.


Very well said :applause: Iverson is one of my very favorite players, AI was a true warrior and had the heart of a lion, That's easily more than I can say for like what 95% of the damn league

[TrueRob]

In terms of raw talent, Iverson > Rose. Things may have played out differently if Iverson got to spend his prime on a stacked team with multiple offensive threats.

[TrueRob]

I would've loved to see Iverson as the starting SG on that 2000 Portland team.