You can't do nothing to D-Wade," If you give him a hard look, that's a foul."

[eliteballer]

Pistons: Notebook

Chris McCosky / Detroit News wire services

Pistons escape Heat for 7th straight win

Refs swayed by Wade?

Rasheed Wallace fired up a shot and then threw himself to the floor. Then he got up, faked a limp and did it again.

"Working on my D-Wade flop," he said, laughing.

The dead-on impersonation of some of Heat guard Dwyane Wade 's theatrics actually had the entire team laughing during Thursday's shoot-around.

But Wade's flopping, and subsequent trips to the free-throw line didn't seem funny during the Pistons' 87-85 victory Thursday night.

"You can't do nothing to D-Wade," Wallace said. "If you say 'boogety-boogety booh' to him, that's a foul. If you give him a hard look, that's a foul."

Heading into Thursday, Wade had attempted a league-high 163 free throws -- 11.6 per game. He made 10 of 13 Thursday. Chauncey Billups leads the Pistons with 111 attempts.

But the Pistons aren't the only ones who think Wade might get a little extra protection.

"He gets all the calls, that's what makes him special," Bobcats forward Gerald Wallace said.

Said SuperSonics coach Bob Hill : "It's unbelievable what he gets away with."

Wade has taken the high road, telling the Miami Herald, "It doesn't bug me as long as the calls don't stop."

But Heat coach Pat Riley said the complaints are a not-so-gentlemanly form of gamesmanship.

"I think they are just playing a scam," Riley told the Herald. "They're just whining. I think everybody's just complaining to try to think they can get an edge and hope they will influence the officials in some way.

"Dwyane deserves what he gets. There isn't anybody in the league that attacks the basket more."

The Pistons' plan entering Thursday's game was to attack Wade first.

"One of the big keys for us is Rip (Hamilton )," coach Flip Saunders said.

"He's been very aggressive and has made Dwyane guard him and he's kind of wore him down. He's actually gotten Dwyane in foul trouble in a couple of games, chasing Rip around."

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061201/SPORTS0102/612010419/1004

[MaxFly]

Lateness: Check
Agenda: Check
Irrational Groupie Mentality: Check

[B-Low]

"It doesn't bug me as long as the calls don't stop."


wow lol

[LakersDynasty]

Rasheed is hilarious. :roll: Oh and this thread will end up in a flame war, I called it!

[telephone]

It is the only thing that Miami can rely on to win

[sydneyking]

I don't care for debating the whole Wade-flop issue but ...


"You can't do nothing to D-Wade," Wallace said. "If you say 'boogety-boogety booh' to him, that's a foul. If you give him a hard look, that's a foul."

:roll: :applause:

[305Baller]

lol
Wallace with the mental games. Id like to see the next game of this matchup.

http://www.sirc.ca/doc_uploads/publishers/0951954326.jpg

[konex]

::roll: @ boogety booh

[elinss86]

haha i dislike rasheed a lot less now...lmao at boogety boo...so funny, yet so true

[ManUtd]

Well..they're all right IMO.

[SsKSpurs21]

wade's acting makes manu look like a high school amature.

[Maximum310]

The Mavs know all too well about the preference treatment to Wade by the officials. But that's just the way the game is, ALL THE SUPERSTARS GET THE CALLS. Is it unfair? MAYBE, But it is what it is.

[gpfanz]

Yup Wallace cant do anything to Wade ya as Wade could jus dunk on him?? :banghead:

[BFRESH44]

It's a conspiracy I tell ya!


:roll:

[dayvid316]

Do you think the calls will be less now because it is being put in the public spotlight now???

[AKA AAP]

Last season:

Wade - 10.7 FTA's while relentlessly attacking the rim.

Kobe - 10.4 FTA's while taking a lot of his shots from the perimeter because he was scared to attack the rim as much as Wade.

How is it even that close? Kobe = biggest beneficiary of the refs this century.

When you can elbow players in the face and have them be called for a foul, you know you're in a whole different level of conspiracy.....

When you can play defense while elbowing/hacking and grabbing the player all the time while not being called for anything, you're in a whole different level of conspiracy.....

[Jailblazers7]

Wade attacks the rim like no other player in the league right now and that is why he gets the calls. If Stern wanted to give a star a championship to a star to increase popularity or something it would be Lebron because he is more internationally known and the "chosen one".

[the even bigger black guy]

AAP - Wade would be nothing without his FTs. They define him. Kobe, without FTs, would have still put up 40 on the best team (record wise) in the league in 3 quarters, and the Lakers would have still gotten the W.

Take away Wade's FTs and he is mediocre

[DatZNasty]

When you can elbow players in the face and have them be called for a foul, you know you're in a whole different level of conspiracy....Exactly, or elbow them in the chest, throat, doesn't matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk

I don't think it bothers Wade that this is the perception of him by some of his peers. I still remember his episode with Kobe the last xmas game when Kobe told him to stop crying and play then in his halftime interview Wade was all animated talking bout "They keep calling stuff on me, Kobe ain't invincible, he do stuff too!" Had me cracking up.

And yes, Wade does get the worse calls ever. In fact, I may just buy the Heat Championship DVD to see what they put on it when it gets to the chapter about the finals. Almost no memorable plays happened from the Heat; no Jordan switching from the dunk to the lefty layup in midair, or shrugging his shoulders after hitting I believe his 5th 3, Kobe to Shaq alleyoop vs the Blazers-type plays that most playoff series have that you just immediately identify with the series. All it is is was was tons of this, in fact this is what they should put on the cover

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nba/images/060620wade-ft.jpg

[gpfanz]

Take away Wade's FTs and he is mediocre

So Shaq getting forced into shooting free throws when being hacked means hes mediocre??? :mad:

[dgbigballer9329]

I was one of the most "quit crying" to bitter Mavs fans people out there, and I still think Wade's the sh*t........but how the hell is that a foul on Dirk?? Really. At that stage of the game?? That's absurd.

[the even bigger black guy]

So Shaq getting forced into shooting free throws when being hacked means hes mediocre??? :mad:

Shaq was special outside his FT shooting. Shaq also didn't score very many points from the stripe. Wade earns a third of his points at the line. It's pathetic. Every other player in the league can see what a joke it is. Only groupies like AAP ignore it.

[Money 23]

I don't think it bothers Wade that this is the perception of him by some of his peers. I still remember his episode with Kobe the last xmas game when Kobe told him to stop crying and play then in his halftime interview Wade was all animated talking bout "They keep calling stuff on me, Kobe ain't invincible, he do stuff too!" Had me cracking up.
Yeah, I remember that. Was that the game where Wade threw an elbow into Kobe's chest? Or was the the X-Mas the year before? I do remember Kobe telling him to quite crying. And then in a fit of bad grammar, Wade let his feelings be known at the halftime interview.


Almost no memorable plays happened from the Heat
Gary Payton's extremely lucky left handed floater from about 10 feet? That's probably the most memorable.

[Money 23]

I mean, if I was D. Wade ... I'd want these calls to stop. It's destroying his rep with his peers. And that is the most important form of respect. If they see it as a joke, why would you want it to continue, or even go on record as saying you "hope it continues". We know Wade drives relentlessly to the hoop, but that doesn't excuse the excessive amount of calls he gets, and more importantly what they are called for. Watch the game in context, he isn't getting beat up like Jordan was driving to the hoop, when players were grabbing his feat, holding his hip, and things of that nature. Wade rarely truly gets fouled when driving to the bucket. The things he gets called for, would be laughed at if they were called in a pick up game. I really don't see other players begging for calls to be successful. Melo, VC, Pierce, McGrady, Iverson, they all just drive to score. Not to GET foul calls. If you play the game hard, the fouls will come. You don't go searching to get calls. It's a ba way to play.

[picc84]

I mean, if I was D. Wade ... I'd want these calls to stop. It's destroying his rep with his peers. And that is the most important form of respect. If they see it as a joke, why would you want it to continue, or even go on record as saying you "hope it continues". We know Wade drives relentlessly to the hoop, but that doesn't excuse the excessive amount of calls he gets, and more importantly what they are called for. Watch the game in context, he isn't getting beat up like Jordan was driving to the hoop, when players were grabbing his feat, holding his hip, and things of that nature. Wade rarely truly gets fouled when driving to the bucket. The things he gets called for, would be laughed at if they were called in a pick up game. I really don't see other players begging for calls to be successful. Melo, VC, Pierce, McGrady, Iverson, they all just drive to score. Not to GET foul calls. If you play the game hard, the fouls will come. You don't go searching to get calls. It's a ba way to play.

And I think thats what irks people about his game. That sometimes it seems like he's not playing to score but to get fouled, and to get fouled ONLY. Hence the egregious pump fakes, flopping, and self initiated contact. It used to annoy me about Reggie Miller how he'd leap into people like Carl Lewis at the longjump and get a foul called, like he wasnt even looking for the score, and its the same with Wade. I like his game but the forced theatrics need to stop.

[Targus]

although a very good player, wade is overrated, in my opinion.

[Kblaze8855]

Knock Wades FTs down 1 or 2 and hes far far faaaar from mediocre. Hes a HOF level player and getting an extra pair of FTs more isnt the difference between average and legend.

People really need some perspective. He takes less than one FT a game more than #2. 3 players are over 10 and within a FT of him. You know how little it takes for a guy who drives to the basket as often as he does to get 1ft more than others given 40 minutes a game to do it? There is like a .3 second call that most of the time is actually a foul between Wades FT attempts and the other top 4.

Way people act its as if he takes 19 a game and the other stars take 6. He doesnt even make the most FTs per game. Allen Iverson does by a small margin. **** because of percentages they shoot he only makes one more FT a game than Michael Redd.

That one extra FT he makes a game is not why Wade looks good. Just the recent thing to ***** about and overblow. He gets fouled on like 6 shots a game and other top guards(who for the most part drive less) get fouled on 5 to 5 and a half. Oh what a mockery of justice....

[DeuceWallaces]

I believe most complaints are about the types of calls he gets, his flopping, and his wincing-i-broke-all-my-ribs-oh-i-guess-i'm-ok-hop-right-up bit. His FT's compared to other top guards are obviously similar.

[gb8]

Its not strictly about the number of freethrows its also to do with the impact it has on the way in which he is guarded. I think someone mentioned in another thread that whenever wade takes a jumpshot he is completely open. That is because players are worried about getting called for a tivky tacky call against them. No doubt he is relentless in driving to the hoop, but as far as i have seen he gets the benefit of the doubt more than any player in the league. All superstars get the borderline calls but with wade more than othes.

[eliteballer]

It's not just number of free throws, it's number of shots. Last year Wade took far fewer shots than the other leading scorers and got the most or second most free throws. His FG% is also coming back down to earth without Shaq. Another game tonight where Wade gets less than 15 FT attempts and his numbers are less than stellar.

[Kblaze8855]

Wade was 5th in the NBA in FTs last season and only 4 over #6(Arenas). Thats in total. Im sure someone could find per game if they cared to. I dont feel like it at the moment.

Kobe, AI, Pierce, Bron, Wade, and Arenas were all a hundred(200 for Kobe and AI) ahead of Carmelo who was 7th. next was Gasol who was almost a hundred below him.

Every elite swingman but VC was up around 800 fts last season. After 1988 Jordan never even shot 800. This year we have 5 guards on pace for 800+ with Kobe slowly getting there and Randolph right behind.

Every elite guard gets a lot of FTs and Wade gets less than 1 more than the others.

How many calls really would you think he gets? Abnormal ones I mean. to take the 11 or whatever it is FTs he averages he might get 2 and 1s, 4 shooting fouls, and then either a technical FT(he often takes them) or one from a non shooting foul in the penalty.

He might only get fouled on shots 4 or 5 times in the game. You have watched basketball just as long as I have....you know how easy it is for a superstar who slashes to get hit once a quarter.


The degree of *****ing over this guys foul calls has gotten almost as out of control as the foul situation(league wide not just him).

People claiming he takes way too many foul shots. Gets massive phantom calls. Wade might stand on the line for 10 seconds more a game than others and get an extra 2 points out of it. Virtually everyone agrees he goes to the basket a lot. In a league where 5-6 guys can get more FTs than Jordan in his prime how shocking is it for a great slasher to take 11-12 FTs a game?

Hes just the designated whipping boy at the moment. People see a 14-16 ft total and act like it means refs were calling guys for nothing and putting him on the line over and over and over unjustly. It just isnt true. Guy does not get fouled all that much more than the other star guards and most of the fouls he gets are legit ones. Out of 4 or 5 shooting fouls its rare more than 1 can really be disputed. and on that one there is almost always still some contact of some kind.

Then people start bringing out FTA per shot and all this other ****. Like getting .7 free throws per shot is some great difference from .5. Its really just a long list of small margins and perceptions bent by reputation and presented without perspective.

Wade isnt getting crazy calls. High scoring guards are getting calls. Wade just happens to be the posterboy for the problem.

[BFRESH44]

LMAO.

I've now learned that you can lay down all the logic that you can possibly bring with this particular subject and it's still doesn't matter. People will have their (retarded) views...

[Human Error]

Wade gets called because he can get to the basket at will and Sheed can't guard Wade unless he fouls. End of discussion.

And eliteballer, you really needs to smarten up yourself. Seriously. You keep saying that "Wade took far fewer shots than the other leading scorers and got the most or second most free throws", and by saying that, you probabaly wanted to say that "he doesn't even take a lot of shots but he still gets a ton of foul shots and that's crazy", but in the 1st place, you should be able to know that large portion of Wade's field goal attempts were already translated into his free throw attempts. And since Wade is no chucker, there's basically no way Wade can take as many field goal attempts as some of the league's top scorers.

You just should change your freakin' username to idiotballer right now. I've had enough of your stupidity.

[EricForman]

let me guess, eliteballer posted this thread to bash Wade simply because Wade did something Kobe never did, win a title as the best player on his team right?

The guy's a moron, start random threads posting articles or quotes bashing other players, and those players are almost always Kobe's "rivals". You never see him try to start threads on Yao Ming or Carlos Boozer, but Jordan, Wade, Lebron, guys who alot of guys put above Kobe? He starts these random threads about them.

Gotta give credit to Mavs fans though, they take alot of time getting clips of the fouls and putting them on youtube, bringing it up randomly, etc. They get their sh*t heard.

I wish Kings fan would have done the same for game 6 of the 02 series, maybe Kings fans are just lazier than Mavs fans because game 6 had a ton of calls worse than any Wade got. More "phantom fouls". I remember one where Doug Christie blocked Kobe, Kobe got free throws, and the whole time, the replay showed in slow mo that it was a clean block, with the commentators straight out saying "how is that a foul?".

Spurs fans should also put up clips of Bruce Bowen's "foul" on Dirk in game 4, that is just as bad, if not worse than the Wade foul on Dirk.

[JSub]

let me guess, eliteballer posted this thread to bash Wade simply because Wade did something Kobe never did, win a title as the best player on his team right?

The guy's a moron, start random threads posting articles or quotes bashing other players, and those players are almost always Kobe's "rivals". You never see him try to start threads on Yao Ming or Carlos Boozer, but Jordan, Wade, Lebron, guys who alot of guys put above Kobe? He starts these random threads about them.

Gotta give credit to Mavs fans though, they take alot of time getting clips of the fouls and putting them on youtube, bringing it up randomly, etc. They get their sh*t heard.

I wish Kings fan would have done the same for game 6 of the 02 series, maybe Kings fans are just lazier than Mavs fans because game 6 had a ton of calls worse than any Wade got. More "phantom fouls". I remember one where Doug Christie blocked Kobe, Kobe got free throws, and the whole time, the replay showed in slow mo that it was a clean block, with the commentators straight out saying "how is that a foul?".

Spurs fans should also put up clips of Bruce Bowen's "foul" on Dirk in game 4, that is just as bad, if not worse than the Wade foul on Dirk.

Cosigned. eliteballer's #1 groupie status sickens me. Everyday, its the same BS. Rasheed is just a bitter punk who got shanked and torched by DWade last year. That's not gonna take away that Finals MVP trophy, is it?

[eliteballer]

Wade averaged more FT's in last years playoffs than SHAQ ever did and averaged more FT's in the Finals than Jordan ever did. If ya'll don't think something is wrong with THAT, then I don't know what to tell you:rolleyes:

[gpfanz]

Wade averaged more FT's in last years playoffs than SHAQ ever did and averaged more FT's in the Finals than Jordan ever did. If ya'll don't think something is wrong with THAT, then I don't know what to tell you:rolleyes:

Yeah.. does David tink we r morons to not notice the discrepencies in the FT attempts by Wade huh :confusedshrug:

[theinfamousmobb]

Sheed just mad Wade assraped the Pistons in the ECF....

[telephone]

You think rasheed brings up the topic? No, the journalists do and the player answers in his own opinion. You guys act like the players brought up the topic. You guys are clueless.

[Sharas]

Wade averaged more FT's in last years playoffs than SHAQ ever did and averaged more FT's in the Finals than Jordan ever did. If ya'll don't think something is wrong with THAT, then I don't know what to tell you:rolleyes:

as kblaze said, there are SIX guys who got more free throws last season than jordan ever did...so basically, it's a league wide trend, wade is just most exposed because he did it in finals. stern is trying to forcefully make a high scoring league

[Kblaze8855]

as kblaze said, there are SIX guys who got more free throws last season than jordan ever did

After 1988...yes.

And Wade did not take more FTs in the playoffs than Shaq ever did either. Neither by total or per game. Wade took 250 in the playoffs. 10.8 a game. Shaq took 296 in the 2000 playoffs in the same number of games. And hes had at least 6 higher playoff runs per average. Maybe more since I didnt average out every season. Just the obvious ones. He took 254 in one less game than Wade needed for 250 in 2004. took 200 in just 16 games in 01. 261 in the 95 run in 2 less games than Wade needed for 250.

You can all check for yourselves im sure so no need to run them all down.

No idea where Elite got that.

[Money 23]

And I think thats what irks people about his game. That sometimes it seems like he's not playing to score but to get fouled, and to get fouled ONLY. Hence the egregious pump fakes, flopping, and self initiated contact. It used to annoy me about Reggie Miller how he'd leap into people like Carl Lewis at the longjump and get a foul called, like he wasnt even looking for the score, and its the same with Wade. I like his game but the forced theatrics need to stop.
Yes, I agree. Kind of disturbing. As his peers have noted. Who wants to lose respect of peers? The people who play the same game, at the same level as you do, and they think its fluke-ish. I wish D. Wade would just play hard, and not worry about calls.

[shadow]

i don't think the issue is the numer of FTAs as much as the perception that he seems to get them on some seriously bogus calls when he needs them the most; perhaps more than any other player in recent memory. Atleast that is the perception.

I can say that it definitely was true of the NBA finals. I don't know if it still holds true though since I don't watch heat games much.

[lakers-city]

After 1988...yes.

And Wade did not take more FTs in the playoffs than Shaq ever did either. Neither by total or per game. Wade took 250 in the playoffs. 10.8 a game. Shaq took 296 in the 2000 playoffs in the same number of games. And hes had at least 6 higher playoff runs per average. Maybe more since I didnt average out every season. Just the obvious ones. He took 254 in one less game than Wade needed for 250 in 2004. took 200 in just 16 games in 01. 261 in the 95 run in 2 less games than Wade needed for 250.


i dont think you can use the same criteria on shaq, ever heard of hack-a-shaq ? other teams intentionally fouled shaq to send him to the line because he is a 50% career ft shooter plus fouling him was the only way to stop him in his good days, players nowadays sure as hell arent purposely fouling wade the way they did to shaq and the way they do to duncan some times, power forwards and centers shooting a lot of free throws is completely understandable, specially if they do all their game 5 ft away from the rim.

[Kblaze8855]

"i dont think you can use the same criteria on shaq, ever heard of hack-a-shaq ?"


Hey he said it not me. If its not true its just not true.

Only reason to even mention Shaq like that would be to point out that Wade took more FTs than even he....a guy known for massive Ft numbers...ever got. And it simply is not true.

[lakers-city]

well, wade obviously didnt take more fts than shaq, i just wanted to point out why that is pretty obvious, :D

[Kblaze8855]

For the record all these people took more FTs per game on a playoff run than Wade last year(and im not counting guys who got knocked out in one round. At least 10 games played).

Pierce in 03
Wilt a number of times.
West 3-4 times.
Barkley a few times
Jordan(98 and 89 at least...maybe more)
Dantley
Karl Malone(a few times)
Oscar Robertson
Rick Barry
Amare
Bernard King
Baylor
Nique


Dirk was half a Ft a game back. Kevin Johnson was right there.

I hear its the perception more than the reality of it...and I agree.

*****ing about refs has hit all time highs and the problem is more noticed. But 20 something guys have taken more FTs a game in the playoffs than Wade did last year. As you can see its not just bigmen either. Swingmen have too.

As for when he gets them...another issue of perception and style of game. If its the end of the game every star is taught to go to the basket since youre more likely to get hit and its an easier shot. When Wade settles for a jumper late in a game(as he did vs the Pistons a few days ago) hes not getting calls when nobody touches him.

End of a game hes gonna draw contact knowing todays rules give the benefit of the doubt to the offensive player.

Such rules are why we can have 6 guards shooting more Fts than Jordan in his prime.

Seeing all his FTs makes people think things happen that dont. Make it look like he shoots them more than anyone when plenty of people took more. May "feel" like he shot more than Shaq ever did.....but he didnt. may "feel" like guards and swingmen never got to the line like he does....but they did. And do.

Problem with his FTs is far far more perception than reality. Once everyone makes a big deal of them they are noticed more and overblown. Thats why there are more percieved FTs than there are in reality. It may feel like hes on the line knocking down FTs for all his points. Reality? AI makes more Fts a game than Wade does.

But you hear 20 people ***** about Wade all day and night the complaining affects judgement. Wade gets no more calls than a few guys. And if he does its not by the margin suggested.

Takes a lot of FTs so he gets a lot of calls. But hes not on his own....

[the even bigger black guy]

blaze - do you not take into account the validity of the calls? or just volume as compared to others?

[Money 23]

blaze - do you not take into account the validity of the calls? or just volume as compared to others?
Yeah, that's the main issue. Not so much the volume. But the volume mixed with actual valid fouls. Mr. KBlaze is ignoring this issue. Maybe he is just a really big Wade fan?

[Kblaze8855]

I like the guy but im not a massive fan. Ive been called a Wade hater here more than a fan since I point out the fact that without Shaq hes basically a volume shooter who wins half his games just like Kobe was.

The calls being valid is considered. But most of the time people dont even see the calls to decide if he deserved them. He only need to be fouled 6 times to get his FTs. When you look at it like that its not hard to imagine a slasher being hit 6 times in 40 minutes. If Wade gets 6 fouls its rare less than 4 are obvious calls.

Nobody here would think he couldnt draw 4-5 legit fouls a game right? We watch these games. He DOES get hit a good number of times. If he actually needed 15 calls to take 15 FTs it would be unlikely all would be legit. But if you look at footage of his fouls there is basically always contact.

A true phanton "nobody touched him" foul is rare in the NBA. He gets a lot of calls that are fouls but arent bad enough to call in my opinion. But the guy does get touched on damn near every foul call. Plenty of guys get fouled on 4-5 shots a game while not driving the way he does. Not hard to believe he could get hit once more than them while driving at every chance he gets.

[Money 23]

But if you look at footage of his fouls there is basically always contact.
Yeah, but not always enough to be a legit foul. There is always going to be some contact. It's a contact sport. Just cause there is some of it, doesn't mean it is an actual foul. Wade gets bailed out alot with the types of calls he gets. I don't know why you're making it sound like people who point this out are "b1tching", they are merely stating how ridiculous it has gotten with him in particular. I think you're defending his case alittle too much. There certainly is legitimacy to the complaints against Wade. It isn't mere perception. Some of the "contact" is self imposed by Wade throwing himself into players, in order to get a call. Then it is even more annoying when on those plays where he draws the contact, doesn't get a call, he will actually complain. That is the worst.

[Kblaze8855]

I call it *****ing because thats what it usually is. Who are we talking about here? Rasheed Wallace who lost to Wades team and despite being entertaining has a long history of being a poor sport and not giving credit to teams that beat his(see last year series vs the cavs). A group of Laker fans who make the same topic over and over about Wades FTs. I dont think it needs to be explained why Laker fans might want to diminish Wade. And then its mostly Mavs fans. Basically a group of bitter fans who take advantage of any comment even the least bit related to Wade FTs to make topics like this one.

Wade has basically an entire section of fans who look to bring his status down mostly due to bitterness. So they point out every single comment anyone makes about it. Bring it up enough and you start to change perception. But you cant change reality.

The reality of the situation is Wade gets fouled....a lot. And while he may gets some calls....all the stars do. Thats why 6 guard shoot more FTs than Jordan did in 13 of his 15 years. It sure as hell isnt them being more aggressive or getting hit more(in the 90s physical play at near its peak).

Guards get calls now. Wade is the whipping boy of the moment due mostly to bitter fans and a few players making joking comments. And 1-2 defeated coaches. Coaches *****ing over refs is as old as the sport.

Wade is just the face of the issue. But he sure as hell isnt the entire issue.

When you have people saying a hall of fame potential player is mediocre if he didnt get the FT a game he gets more than the other stars its gone way past concern for the sport we love. Its just flat out stupid.

I may think the guy is overrated by many. I dont think hes top 5 in the league and arguably as low as 7th or 8th. I may not think hes gonna win anything without Shaq. It may annoy me that people choose to diminish Shaqs impact on the team. I may have been annoyed when he got some shaky calls vs the Bulls in the playoffs.

But I respect the sport too much to pretend the refs make him what he is. Determination, wanting to make it to the basket, and just a little flopping(also called veteran smart depending on who you ask) get him his FTs. And with all that he still doesnt take way more than the other guys.

So im just not going to overblow the problem. I get annoyed when he gets a FT from leaning into Kirk Hinrich. But I get annoyed when Lebron, Pierce, Cassell, and Kobe do the same thing.

The rules now annoy me. The way the game is called so that guys like Gilbert Arenas can take 800 fts. That annoys me. But I wont pretend Wade is the sole beneficiary of it just because a bunch of overly biased fans with hurt feelings find a new quote once a week and make 4 topics every time he gets more than 13 FTs.

[Mathius]

I have to agree with the consensus that Wade is a big time actor.

I don't care about the numbers. I've watched the games. And it isn't just with the free throw issue.

How many times last year did they report how badly injured D Wade was, only to have him enter the game, play fine, and have a huge game? They were reporting during the playoffs that he couldn't even stand up in the one practice without the aid of a cart, and yet he came into the game and scored 28 or something.

The guy is a big drama queen. I don't care how good he really is. It's true.

Mathius

[Kblaze8855]

AAP used to say the same thing about Kobe. How hed limp for a second then all of a sudden be able to drive and dunk. I didnt care much then and dont now. If you think hes a drama queen so be it. He is to some degree. And heres the last thing ill say on it....

When I was a kid everyone(in my family at least) hated the calls Larry Bird got.

Bit later it was Magic and the Lakers using that illegal D. Basically a loose zone that was as clear as day but the refs only clled 2-3 times a month. Magic getting a FT at every touch.

Then everyone was heated because ofthe pistons."How can they play like that! Thats not even basketball....". Badboys got a lot of room for error on what was and wasnt a flagrant.

Then when MJ took over the basketball world agreed he was great...but he got calls. Knicks fans hated it. magic Johnson said in photo shoots he couldnt get too close to Jordan or its a foul. Jordan gets away with the most obvious push off in history on a shot to win a title.

When the Lakers were on top "____ got screwed by the refs" was a daily issue. Kings fans, Twolf fans, blazers fans and all. Never ending *****ing over Shaq. 20 topics every playoff game where Kobe got a call or two. Nobody here at the time can deny that. **** it was like 2005 before some people stopped calling the Kings the 2002 champs here.

Few years ago the Spurs got it. Everyone mad over Bowens physicl play and from 03-05 Mavs fans and fans in general hated how Duncan got so many touch foul and 1s. In the 2004 finals all Laker fans here could talk about is the Lakers getting screwed by the refs.

And now we have Wade. The most recent champ with a line of bruised egos and bitter fans/coaches in his wake. Plus an entire other franchise of fans who hate to seeh im do what people said for years any elite guard would do on Shaqs team.

It is not a coincidence that 17 of the last 20 champs have some form of ref based controversey. Success breeds jealousy on every level. And success combined with a massive change inthe calling of the game makes for even more villians. Wade is the villan of choice right now.

And the next team to win it all with any form of ref based complaints will be the villian until someone takes it from them. Refs give an escape from accepting being wrong or your team not being good enough. Thats why Knick fans pushed the "Jordan is loved by refs" idea in the 90s. Why Kings fans set new standards for *****ing in 01-04 and why the Mavs and Laker fans have taken the title from the Kings fans. It will go on forever and every time people will pretend its the worst its ever been.

I'll remind everyone I told them so when it happens just like I said it would when Jordan was the target and when shaq/kobe were the targets. It will happen.

Until then....ill drop it.

[poorlilrich]

the refs are on wade's nuts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lX_qMS9bRY&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuukM40T974&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZKGlHfukc4&mode=related&search=

[FPower]

Badboys got a lot of room for error on what was and wasnt a flagrant.

I know this is nitpicking a long post, but there was no such thing as a flagrant foul when the Bad Boys played. Rule wasn't implemented until the 90's.

As for Wade, I think he probably gets more than his fair share of "superstar" calls. Him and Lebron are equally frustrating to watch IMO...although I think Wade's getting to a higher level because he does the Reggie Miller thing where he's always trying to draw fouls on jump shots. That drives me nuts for some reason. Just shoot your jump shot, and if you get fouled, let the refs call it. Throwing yourself into the defender has always bothered me as being a ***** way of playing.

[Kblaze8855]

"I know this is nitpicking a long post, but there was no such thing as a flagrant foul when the Bad Boys played. Rule wasn't implemented until the 90's."

Yes but refs would give the tech and throw you out for the crazy hard fouls we now consider flagrants. And since 2 of them got you kicked out just like 2 flagrants I just dont think about the name.

[dgbigballer9329]

Yes but refs would give the tech and throw you out for the crazy hard fouls we now consider flagrants. And since 2 of them got you kicked out just like 2 flagrants I just dont think about the name.

I don't know about that. McHale clotheslined Rambis, which would be a flagrant 2 (or 1???, whatever it is that gets you tossed) and a fine today.....and he just got a foul and stayed in. Barkley piledrives someone (don't remember who) into the basket support.......just a foul. And Parish punched Laimbeer in the jaw and didn't even get a foul (though the refs may not have seen it)

[picc84]

Wade's regular season ft's were never the large issue (at least not til after the finals). They werent last year, and they arent this year. The refs have been relatively fair in each. It was the playoffs when he began to get the blatant prefential treatment, beginning in the ECF and culminating in the finals. Thats where the huge Wade ft conspiracy stuff comes from. Pointing out his regular season ft averages compared to other players is not a counter because the more serious complaints arent really about the regular season, they stem from how the refs treat him in the playoffs. And even then pointing out other player avg's doesnt mean much because its the kind of calls he got, not the volume.

[Kblaze8855]

Well of course they let more go in the 80s. But the kind of things they had slowly started not letting go in the late 80s the Pistons still got away with.

Johnny Most was the most biased announcer ever but he was right on the money saying half the Pistons team committed crimes on the floor. These guys went above and beyond tough play.

[jan803]

kblaze's post is a more eloquent way of how i can't stand fans whining about how ref's call games.

i don't post as much as i used to but those who remember me know i am a lakers' fan. i didn't get any pleasure watching wade going to foul line during the playoffs.

but i consistently said that since these are professionals, they need to adjust to how ref's call games. i really ragged on dirk in the finals because he wouldn't drive to the basket himself. he'd try a few times and then settle for outside jumpers. i really lost some respect for dirk because of that.

people can whine all they want on wade driving to the basket. if the ref's keep giving he the ft's, why should he stop? i'd expect kobe to do the same.

now i don't think kobe gets his fair share of calls when he does drive to the basket, but i admit i have a fan's bias. but at least the guy will keep going inside and not let non-calls affect how he plays his game.

[EricForman]

When the Lakers were on top "____ got screwed by the refs" was a daily issue. Kings fans, Twolf fans, blazers fans and all. Never ending *****ing over Shaq. 20 topics every playoff game where Kobe got a call or two. Nobody here at the time can deny that. **** it was like 2005 before some people stopped calling the Kings the 2002 champs here.

Few years ago the Spurs got it. Everyone mad over Bowens physicl play and from 03-05 Mavs fans and fans in general hated how Duncan got so many touch foul and 1s. In the 2004 finals all Laker fans here could talk about is the Lakers getting screwed by the refs.

that bolded statement shows how stupid and totally ignorant alot of Laker fans are (on this board and in real life, I live in LA, unfortunately). All the instances you bought up about complaints, such as Duncan getting touch calls, Bowen physical play, Magic getting touch calls, Pistons rough D, all of it was pretty reasonable for fans of the other teams to complain. But then you have Laker fans complaining about 04 finals? What is there to complain about, when they just got whupped? How could the refs screw Kobe into shooting 35%, Ben Wallace to be grabbing every rebound, Sheed, Ben and Prince altering every layup in the lane? How do the refs screw the Lakers when Memo Okur and Mike James are outplaying the Lakers role players? HOW? That's the stupidest complaint ever, and I'm not surprised it's from Laker fans.

That series wasn't even close. Take away the 3 minute hot stretch of Kobe i ngame 2 and it was a sweep. You don't complain about refs when the games are so lopsided and complete dominance. You complain about the refs when it's a close game and some guy gets free throw after free throw.

[MTing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25zjXaFaEvQ
:no:

[Prodigy]

Wade would have been SUCH a great soccer player. Second in league only to Nash.

[Money 23]

Wade acted like he got shot on that play. He completely over-exaggerated that. If that happened to A.I., and lets say it was so hard his tooth got knocked out. A.I. would spit it out, and keep playing. Not roll on the ground, actling like he just got sprayed with mase.

[LakersDynasty]

Wade acted like he got shot on that play. He completely over-exaggerated that. If that happened to A.I., and lets say it was so hard his tooth got knocked out. A.I. would spit it out, and keep playing. Not roll on the ground, actling like he just got sprayed with mase.
What the hell, Carter's elbow barely graced Wade's face in that play, that's weak.

Two days ago Dan Gadzuric inadvertantly elbowed Diaw (who isn't known to be a tough guy either) who started bleeding immediately and his nose looked to be broken, but he came back 2 minutes after he got hit. No need to act like you got hit by a shot gun. :confusedshrug:

[Money 23]

Thing is, I know Wade is a tough guy. He grew up on the mean streets of Chicago. That's why I loved him his rookie year. And that's why I don't understand how he has turned into such a ballerina. He cries like Nancy Kerrigan did when she got hit with a crowbar. He didn't complain his first year, and he didn't really complain his second year. Then in year 3, he turned into this pansy. The Wade we saw his rookie and sophmore year is the real player. I loved him then. He didn't get the pub Bron, and Melo got, and he just went out there and played his heart out and didn't whine and moan. He also drove just as much then, but now he gets an extrodinary amount of calls. In reality, without all the ticky tacks he gets and the blatant miss calls which put him on the line, Wade is a low 20 ppg scorer.

[Technical Lead]

I think you are looking at it in from a different perspective. I believe sheed and all the other complainants are referring to the type of calls this guy gets away with and not really the average free throws he gets. I think its a matter of when the calls are called like in situations that the games are close. If you look at the average, it doesnt tell you all the story. How many attempts did wade took in games that are decided by 10 points or less? You will most likely see that the majority of his FTs are in those games where FTs actually decided the game and look how many of those were taken by wade.

[shadow]

that bolded statement shows how stupid and totally ignorant alot of Laker fans are (on this board and in real life, I live in LA, unfortunately). All the instances you bought up about complaints, such as Duncan getting touch calls, Bowen physical play, Magic getting touch calls, Pistons rough D, all of it was pretty reasonable for fans of the other teams to complain. But then you have Laker fans complaining about 04 finals? What is there to complain about, when they just got whupped? How could the refs screw Kobe into shooting 35%, Ben Wallace to be grabbing every rebound, Sheed, Ben and Prince altering every layup in the lane? How do the refs screw the Lakers when Memo Okur and Mike James are outplaying the Lakers role players? HOW? That's the stupidest complaint ever, and I'm not surprised it's from Laker fans.

That series wasn't even close. Take away the 3 minute hot stretch of Kobe i ngame 2 and it was a sweep. You don't complain about refs when the games are so lopsided and complete dominance. You complain about the refs when it's a close game and some guy gets free throw after free throw.

Well ain't that great. Excuse all the other fans' moaning and griping but hold the Laker fans to a different standard. Way to keep your biases from affecting you fella.

BTW Technical Lead hit the nail on the head. Its the type of calls he gets. Wade comes galavanting down court taking ten steps and then proceeds to run into a crowd with no hope of making a bucket, flop and *TWEEET*. FOul, time for FTs. Or so goes the perception.

The perception is that he gets those calls at key moments when he really needs them. The thing is though that a lot of other superstars do too. But since Wade got that total bogus call in the finals that helped Miami take the series lead, and the phantom calls in the subsequent games, people just watch for games where the whistle favors him. So everytime the kid goes off for 20 or so FTAs in a game they're like "see the refs always give him calls!" even if it only happens once in every 10 games or so. I can't hold it against wade for taking advantage of that. Infact I wish Kobe or Lamar got the same kinds of calls he does because let's face it, its all good if it favors your team.

[JtotheIzzo]

Thing is, I know Wade is a tough guy. He grew up on the mean streets of Chicago. That's why I loved him his rookie year. And that's why I don't understand how he has turned into such a ballerina. He cries like Nancy Kerrigan did when she got hit with a crowbar. He didn't complain his first year, and he didn't really complain his second year. Then in year 3, he turned into this pansy. The Wade we saw his rookie and sophmore year is the real player. I loved him then. He didn't get the pub Bron, and Melo got, and he just went out there and played his heart out and didn't whine and moan. He also drove just as much then, but now he gets an extrodinary amount of calls. In reality, without all the ticky tacks he gets and the blatant miss calls which put him on the line, Wade is a low 20 ppg scorer.

Yes, every single person inthe hood is tough:hammerhead:

[Rasheed1]

this same lame ass topic again?

same bitter laker fans talking the same nonsense....... If laker fans (kobe groupies) aint complaining about the east being weak, then they are b*tchin about wade..

you dudes are pathetic

[MaxFly]

Wade gets his fair share of calls, and I doubt heat fans complain very often of him not getting calls or not being treated fairly by the referees, but it's the smart way to play. If a player realizes that he is getting calls, the smart thing to do is to continue playing in a way that will ensure that you continue to get those calls. Though his flopping is a tad excessive, he's just trying to get whatever advantage he can. Perhaps it's not the most admirable way of playing, but neither are a number of the other tactics players use to gain advantages.

[Knoe Itawl]

People that complain about Wade are:

45% Kobe Groupies
45% Bitter Dallas Fans
10% Other

And not one Wade detractor in this thread adequately responded to blaze's points.

In other words, you're full of shyt and want to just believe what you want to believe without even bothering to defend your "points".

[AKA AAP]

"Laker fans", Kobe groupies, and some idotic Mavs fans (not all are stupid, but most)...what a great combination. Even before the playoffs, Mavs fans (again, not all), were the 2nd worst group behind the groupies.

The funny thing is, Wade gets as many free throws as Kobe...except for the fact that Wade attacks the rim relentlessly, while Kobe doesn't have the heart/passion/desire/street hunger to attack the rim as much as Wade. Not to mention Kobe is clearly ranked 1, no close second, in phantom calls this century.

As far as last year's Finals, there was only one bad call that favored Wade...and that was the push on Dirk Nowitzki. That's it. If you think there are other ones, post videos...and I will completely DESTROY any questions once I get home later tonight. Some of you need to smarten up in reality, and basketball.

[AKA AAP]

now i don't think kobe gets his fair share of calls when he does drive to the basket, but i admit i have a fan's bias. but at least the guy will keep going inside and not let non-calls affect how he plays his game.

YOU = delusional. He was strictly a perimeter player last year.

And he's also the most anti-clutch player to date. 21.4% in game winning shots, low to mid 30% shooter in the last 5 minutes of a close game.

Kobe = clutch? Now that is what we call PERCEPTION, and delusional.

[gsxr1kryder]

I'm starting to doubt that Wade commercial of the past. the one where it says "knocked down 7 times, get back up 8". maybe that's "flop 7 times, act like i'm hurt, then get helped back up 8 times".

I don't have a problem if he drives to the lane and gets fouled. but it's the "stupid calls" he gets when he drives. most of the time he is actually NOT EVEN fouled. or he does that "reggie miller" move where he jumps into a player just to get the foul call.

[MaxFly]

I'm starting to doubt that Wade commercial of the past. the one where it says "knocked down 7 times, get back up 8". maybe that's "flop 7 times, act like i'm hurt, then get helped back up 8 times".

I don't have a problem if he drives to the lane and gets fouled. but it's the "stupid calls" he gets when he drives. most of the time he is actually NOT EVEN fouled. or he does that "reggie miller" move where he jumps into a player just to get the foul call.

Dallas fan?

[lakers-city]

I'm starting to doubt that Wade commercial of the past. the one where it says "knocked down 7 times, get back up 8". maybe that's "flop 7 times, act like i'm hurt, then get helped back up 8 times".

I don't have a problem if he drives to the lane and gets fouled. but it's the "stupid calls" he gets when he drives. most of the time he is actually NOT EVEN fouled. or he does that "reggie miller" move where he jumps into a player just to get the foul call.

this is bs.

for this to be true either of this things would have to happen:

1. the guy must miss a lot of layups, i mean if when he drives and misses thats not a foul (according to you) then he misses layups all night ?

2. defenses just let him go straight to the rim to dunk it or lay it up.

face it, he does get calls, but the only way to stop a slasher is to either foul him or block the shot, or else you are saying he isnt fouled and he just misses his dunks and layups all night ? :confusedshrug:

[Bourne]

how sad that this is more prevalent day than this even way

[Bandito]

Holy necroposting!

[tpols]

^wtf lol

And funny how Kblaze defends wade here 7 years ago.. And despite arguing the calls are legit he deserved them etc. We now see how contrived wades game really is. The past few years of wades ref baiting have been a disgrace and they stemmed from the bullshit calls he got when he was younger.

[plowking]

^wtf lol

And funny how Kblaze defends wade here 7 years ago.. And despite arguing the calls are legit he deserved them etc. We now see how contrived wades game really is. The past few years of wades ref baiting have been a disgrace and they stemmed from the bullshit calls he got when he was younger.

Hes still easily a 20+ppg scorer despite being injured and playing limited minutes. :oldlol:

Your point is moot.

EDIT: Funny to see Samurai Swoosh posting with his alternate account back then, probably using it to agree with himself. LOL. Sad dude.

[WWRWestbrookDo?]

Wade is like the African American version of Ginobili. They both act like they made out of rubber and flop like a motherfcka

[305Baller]

OP is a...

[Johnny Jones]

OP is a...
awesome person.

[seanclayton]

Wade is like the African American version of Ginobili. They both act like they made out of rubber and flop like a motherfcka
U mean LeBron.

[Scholar]

Boogity Boogity boo!

[Vragrant]

A thread dug up from 2006?:oldlol: I already knew this but its probably official now that D Wade is the most hated player on ISH.

[plowking]

I mean, if I was D. Wade ... I'd want these calls to stop. It's destroying his rep with his peers. And that is the most important form of respect. If they see it as a joke, why would you want it to continue, or even go on record as saying you "hope it continues". We know Wade drives relentlessly to the hoop, but that doesn't excuse the excessive amount of calls he gets, and more importantly what they are called for. Watch the game in context, he isn't getting beat up like Jordan was driving to the hoop, when players were grabbing his feat, holding his hip, and things of that nature. Wade rarely truly gets fouled when driving to the bucket. The things he gets called for, would be laughed at if they were called in a pick up game. I really don't see other players begging for calls to be successful. Melo, VC, Pierce, McGrady, Iverson, they all just drive to score. Not to GET foul calls. If you play the game hard, the fouls will come. You don't go searching to get calls. It's a ba way to play.


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