2003 Kobe Bryant. Greatest "Side-Kick" Season Ever?

[laronprofit9]

2003 Kobe Bryant. Greatest Year Ever by a Side-Kick?

http://www.vintageadsandstuff.com/viewsi030303.jpeg

30.0 ppg 6.9 rpg 5.9 apg 2.2 spg 0.8 bpg 45%FG/38%3P/84%FT/55%TS

1st Team All-NBA
1st Team All-Defense
3rd MVP Voting.

League Ranks:
#1 Field Goals made
#1 Total Points
#2 Total Minutes Played
#2 Free Throws Made
#3 Total Steals

Notable:
9 Straight 40+ Point Games. Tied with Michael Jordan all-time.

The 2nd Man

This may sound disappointing or upsetting to many fans, but as long as Shaquille O'Neal was on the Lakers, Kobe Bryant was always his side-kick. Kobe did not become a first option until Shaquille O'Neal officially left the team in 2004. It should always be remembered that way. The best way to determine who's team it was is to ask: who was the team specifically built around for? who was cornerstone of the team? who did they design the offense around?

The Lakers clearly built their team around Shaquille O'Neal, and Kobe Bryant became the best complimentary player that one could ask of him. There have been a stretch of games or a number of playoff series, where the team looked more to Kobe or you could say, "Kobe out-performed Shaq". But in the end, this was Shaq's team. No "option 1a or 1b". It was Shaq #1. Kobe #2. Period.

However, this should not in anyway hurt Kobe at all as an individual player. He's been consistently a Top 5 Player in the League every year since 2000. In the second half of the decade, he's been a Top 3 Player every year. In my opinion, he's been the best player in the league for 3 seasons (2006, 2007, 2008), and 2nd Best for 2 seasons (2009, 2010). He's a top 10 player of all-time right now, and can easily finish his career around top 6 when he retires.

Now to the topic. In the 2003 season, Shaq was not fully ready to start the season due to injuries, and the team needed Kobe to step up. Kobe did in fact step up to challenge this season. At the time he posted up career highs in Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, 3P%, Minutes Played, Games Played, and Free Throws made.

http://www.loudsportsshorts.com/basketball/dunks/bryant_dunks_over_ming.jpg

Athleticism
Kobe reached his physical and athletic peak this season. From 2000 to 2002, Kobe Bryant weighed in at a solid 210 pounds. After the 2002 Finals, Kobe hit the weight room and gained 15 pounds of pure muscle to reach 225 pounds. Kobe's vertical also seemed to have improved this season despite the extra weight(maybe his legs were a lot stronger?). His lateral quickness, explosiveness, and speed were in prime condition this season, and probably the best of his career. His endurance and durability improved over the last season as well. Kobe's Vertical, Strength, Quickness, Endurance, Explosiveness, and Speed all peaked this season. Sadly Kobe would never reach this level of athleticism ever again for the rest of his career. Results:


Kobe's Extra Muscle improved his 3-Point Shooting, increasing his range allowing his shooting form to remain the same from the free throw line to the three point line. His 3P% increased from 25% to 38%.

Kobe's combined lateral quickness and strength made this Kobe's best individual season as a defender. He rose from (2002)All-Defensive 2nd Team to (2003)All-Defensive 1st-Team. He had career highs(still career highs) in steals per game, total steals, and total blocks. In addition, his strength made him a far more effective post-defender. On the perimeter, almost every single player in the league was having a hard time getting by him.

Kobe's Endurance and Durability Improved tremendously this season as well. Career highs(still career highs) in minutes played and minutes per game. For the first time in his career, Kobe played all 82 games during the regular season this year.

Kobe's Vertical had peaked this season. As mentioned earlier, he had more total blocks this season than any other season. His vertical and strength also allowed him to have career highs in rebounds and rebounds per game for his career. Lastly, he had his most impressive "dunking" year this season. Kobe dunked on Yao this season. He had 2 baseline reverse windmill dunks this season. One over Kevin Garnett and the other on Latrell Sprewell. He had a behind-the-back 360 dunk. He had multiple dunks where he was jumping behind the dotted line. He iced a game with a 360 dunk while being guarded by Jason Williams in Memphis as the last bucket of the game. There were just so many memorable dunks from this season that show up in a bunch of highlight reels for Kobe's career.

Kobe's first step this season did not take a seat back. He was just as explosive and quick as he was in 2001 and 2002 this season. In fact, he was probably faster due to his improvements to his already stellar defense.


With Shaq struggling with injures, Kobe Bryant became a legitimate Triple-Double Threat every night for the First Half of the Season:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3918/speakl.jpg


Kobe Bryant Cumulative Regular Season Statistics through February 18, 2003:
52 Games 30.2 PTS 7.1 TRB 6.5 AST .458 FG% .381 3P% .837FT% 114 STL 49 BLK 196 TOV 134 PF

Kobe was the best 2-way perimeter player in the league this season. There were perimieter players who were arguably just as good or better on offense (Tracy Mcgrady). There were perimeter players who were as good or better on defense (Bruce Bowen). But as a 2-way perimeter player, no one was better than Kobe Bryant.

I rank this as Kobe's 4th best individual offensive season, and his best individual defensive season(this season was clearly not based off reputation). As a scorer, rebounder, playmaker, and defender, I believe Kobe was the best 2-way player ever as a side-kick this year.

Has a side-kick ever had a better individual season?

Scottie Pippen?
Elgin Baylor/Jerry West?
James Worthy?
Kevin McHale?

[knightfall88]

Lebron will top Kobe in 2010 - 2011 as the best sidekick of all time. Book it/

[laronprofit9]

Lebron will top Kobe in 2010 - 2011 as the best sidekick of all time. Book it/

Lebron is the best player on the Heat. Wade comes in at a very close 2nd.

To me, Lebron is not the sidekick of the Heat.

[Micku]

Kevin Mchale 1987:

PPG: 26.1
FG: .601%
RPG: 9.9
BPG: 2.2

Fourth ranking in MVP
Was in the 1st all defensive team
1st team all NBA-Team

I think he is the only player to average over 25 pts with 60% shooting. I could be wrong though. The 80s Celtics ruled.

Edit:

Full stats of Mchale:

PPG: 26.1
FG: .601%
RPG: 9.9
BPG: 2.2
APG: 2.6
SPG: 0.5
FT: .836%
TS: .655%

[chains5000]

Kevin Mchale 1987:

PPG: 26.1
FG: .601%
RPG: 9.9
BPG: 2.2

Fourth ranking in MVP
Was in the 1st all defensive team

I think he is the only player to average over 25 pts with 60% shooting. I could be wrong though. The 80s Celtics ruled.
Better than Bryant's season.

[laronprofit9]

Kevin Mchale 1987:

PPG: 26.1
FG: .601%
RPG: 9.9
BPG: 2.2

Fourth ranking in MVP
Was in the 1st all defensive team

I think he is the only player to average over 25 pts with 60% shooting. I could be wrong though. The 80s Celtics ruled.

Shaq in his 2nd year achieved it.

29.3 ppg 13.2 rpg 2.4 apg on .599%fg(60%) if you round up.

Between Mchale and Kobe it's real close.

With Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, I really don't know who was batman and robin on those 60's Laker teams. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

[laronprofit9]

Favorite Game from Kobe that season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vcC5vg-1Mc

52 Points 8 Rebounds 7 Assists 3 Blocks 50%fg(19/38) vs Houston Rockets

Includes:
Kobe Dunk on Yao Ming

This was also the first time, Kobe was starting to get MVP chants while Shaq was on the team.

[Micku]

Favorite Game from Kobe that season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vcC5vg-1Mc

52 Points 8 Rebounds 7 Assists 3 Blocks 50%fg(19/38) vs Houston Rockets

Includes:
Kobe Dunk on Yao Ming

This was also the first time, Kobe was starting to get MVP chants while Shaq was on the team.

Young Kobe! Memories.


That was the year that the gap close between Kobe and Shaq of the "man" with the fans. The lakers were so smug that year. They thought they could beat everybody.

I remember they had a bad start in the season, but they turned it around in the Dallas game. That was my favorite game of the regular season. They had a great comeback, but I don't remember if it went to overtime or not.

But Kobe was awesome that year. Very entertaining.

[High Roller]

Great thread, the first accurately detailed and informative thread Ive seen on Kobe in a long long time. These days it's just Kobe stans taking shots at LeBron or Jordan.

[PurpleChuck]

Lebron will top Kobe in 2010 - 2011 as the best sidekick of all time. Book it/

This. Accurate prediction IMO.

[laronprofit9]

:applause:

[laronprofit9]

Young Kobe! Memories.


That was the year that the gap close between Kobe and Shaq of the "man" with the fans. The lakers were so smug that year. They thought they could beat everybody.

I remember they had a bad start in the season, but they turned it around in the Dallas game. That was my favorite game of the regular season. They had a great comeback, but I don't remember if it went to overtime or not.

But Kobe was awesome that year. Very entertaining.

Yah, that was where the Lakere were down by 27 points going into the 4th quarter(Mavs 88 Lakers 61). They were also down 64 to 36 going into to the half. Ended up winning the game, Kobe scored 21 points in the 4th quarter. A 29 year old Michael Finley could not stay in front of Kobe that game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyb1MNb2GrQ

[ShaqAttack3234]

Not many people were still calling Kobe a sidekick in 2003, and I don't consider him one that year. And :oldlol: at Lebron being a sidekick.


Shaq in his 2nd year achieved it.

26.5 ppg 12 rpg 2.2 apg on .599%fg(60%) if you round up.

Shaq actually averaged 29.3 ppg, 13.2 rpg and 2.4 apg on 59.9% shooting in his second year.

[laronprofit9]

Not many people were still calling Kobe a sidekick in 2003, and I don't consider him one that year. And :oldlol: at Lebron being a sidekick.



Shaq actually averaged 29.3 ppg, 13.2 rpg and 2.4 apg on 59.9% shooting in his second year.

Must've looked at the wrong stats, probably per 36 minutes.

Will edit post.

Thanks.

[BlueandGold]

Magic in his rookie year was hands down the #2 player on that team and won the MVP as a "side-kick".


Not many people were still calling Kobe a sidekick in 2003, and I don't consider him one that year. And at Lebron being a sidekick.

This, I remember the term "greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history" being thrown around a lot that year.

[NoName22]

He clearly wasn't a sidekick that season. If anything, it was Shaq who was one :oldlol:

[laronprofit9]

Magic in his rookie year was hands down the #2 player on that team and won the MVP as a "side-kick".



This, I remember the term "greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history" being thrown around a lot that year.

Kobe was a sidekick to Shaq. Eveybody on the Lakers would tell you that, and even Kobe would admit it.

Just about every single player would've been a sidekick to Shaq, even Michael Jordan could've possibly been a sidekick to Shaq.

[ShaqAttack3234]

He clearly wasn't a sidekick that season. If anything, it was Shaq who was one :oldlol:

:oldlol: Shaq wasn't even close to a sidekick. The team went 5-10 without him and Shaq was their best player in the playoffs.

Regular season
Kobe- 30 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 3.5 TO, 45.1 FG%, 48.3 eFG%, 55 TS%
Shaq- 27.5 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.4 bpg, 0.6 spg, 2.9 TO, 57.4 FG%, 60.2 TS%

You could make a case for either player being better that season, therefor, neither was a sidekick.

[PHILA]

I prefer Bryant from late 2001.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/2001/0625_large.jpg

[NoName22]

:oldlol: Shaq wasn't even close to a sidekick. The team went 5-10 without him and Shaq was their best player in the playoffs.

Regular season
Kobe- 30 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 3.5 TO, 45.1 FG%, 48.3 eFG%, 55 TS%
Shaq- 27.5 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.4 bpg, 0.6 spg, 2.9 TO, 57.4 FG%, 60.2 TS%

You could make a case for either player being better that season, therefor, neither was a sidekick.

Of course he wasn't.

However, Shaq wasn't as good that season as his numbers suggest & Kobe wasn't a sidekick either.

[laronprofit9]

Shaq was always the 1st option on offense, and the rest of the team played off of him(including Kobe). Kobe was obviously the most-effective at his role over anyone else.

Dominant paint scoring is always more reliable than dominant perimeter scoring due to much higher efficiency. It was always smarter to throw the ball into Shaq first.

The Lakers team suited Shaq's talents more than Kobe's. Because the team was made for Shaq. Not Kobe. This should indicate that he was the main man, and Kobe was the sidekick.

Just how Kobe is clearly the main man now over Pau Gasol.

[kizut1659]

:oldlol: Shaq wasn't even close to a sidekick. The team went 5-10 without him and Shaq was their best player in the playoffs.

Regular season
Kobe- 30 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 3.5 TO, 45.1 FG%, 48.3 eFG%, 55 TS%
Shaq- 27.5 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.4 bpg, 0.6 spg, 2.9 TO, 57.4 FG%, 60.2 TS%

You could make a case for either player being better that season, therefor, neither was a sidekick.

Exactly - classic 1A/1B situation. The notion that there could be no 1A/1B situation with Shaq just because he was so special is silly. I would argue that the Lakers were a 1A/1B team from 2000-2001 season on, with the fight for 1A during the first half of the season, then Shaq establishing himself as 1A and relegating Bryant to 1B untill the 2002-2003 season, then the resumed uncertainty over who is 1A in the 2002-2003 season, and finally resumed public bickering but Bryant somehow becoming 1A during the 2003-2004 season despite having his worst season since 1999-2000.

[laronprofit9]

I prefer Bryant from late 2001.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/2001/0625_large.jpg

2001 is his best playoff run with Shaq.

But I give 2003 the nod for these reasons

Kobe bested his 2001 averages in every single category in 2003.
Kobe reached 2nd-team all nba and 2nd team all defense in 2001. Kobe was 1st team all nba and 1st team all defense in 2003.
Kobe played only 66 games in 2001. Kobe played all 82 games in 2003.
Kobe played more selfishly in the first half of 2001, and 2003 Kobe was an excellent overall playmaker throughout the entire season.
I might give the late 2001 Kobe a very small/marginal edge over 2003 Kobe. But if you look at the full season, 2003 Kobe was mainly better.


To be honest, I had a hard deciding if 2001 or 2003 was a better season for Kobe. It's real close, and 2001 certainly has valid arguments over 2003.

I'd say 2001 was the best Shaq/Kobe played together.
2003 was Kobe's best individual year while he was with Shaq.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Of course he wasn't.

However, Shaq wasn't as good that season as his numbers suggest & Kobe wasn't a sidekick either.

Well, I agree to some extent, he had lost a bit as far as mobility and explosiveness(this started in 2002 actually) due to the weight gain and his defense wasn't as good despite finishing among the league leaders in blocks and making the all-defensive second team.

But, he was still by far the best low post scorer in the game(and the most efficient elite scorer), one of the best passing big men, one of the best rebounders and fouling him wasn't as effective as previous seasons because he hit a subpar, but much better than usual 62%. Plus, despite his defense slipping, a 7'1", 375 pound shot blocker will always make a big impact.


I prefer Bryant from late 2001.

That's one of my 3 favorite versions of Kobe along with 2006 and 2008. I like the 2000 version a lot because he was at his defensive peak, IMO, but he was a more dominant overall player and a much bigger offensive threat in the other 3 seasons I mentioned.

Shaq and Kobe in the latter half of the 2001 season and the playoffs were the best duo ever, IMO. Kobe had figured out how to incorporate his individual brilliance without disrupting the team's chemistry or really going away from Phil's game plan while Shaq was pretty much at his 2000 level. That's why I ranked Kobe as the 3rd best player in the entire league in 2001 in my top 25 lists(2nd best in the entire playoffs).


Exactly - classic 1A/1B situation. The notion that there could be no 1A/1B situation with Shaq just because he was so special is silly. I would argue that the Lakers were a 1A/1B team from 2000-2001 season on, with the fight for 1A during the first half of the season, then Shaq establishing himself as 1A and relegating Bryant to 1B untill the 2002-2003 season, then the resumed uncertainty over who is 1A in the 2002-2003 season, and finally resumed public bickering but Bryant somehow becoming 1A during the 2003-2004 season despite having his worst season since 1999-2000.

Eh, 1A/1B to me is when you can make a legitimate argument for either player being better, that wasn't the case until 2003. Though those Laker teams were unique in 2001 and 2002 with the best player in the league, another top 3 player in 2001 and top 4 player in 2002.

While I view Kobe as number 2, I definitely don't view his contributions to those title teams as your typical number 2 guy. Only in 2000, was that really the case. So in a sense, I get where you're coming from.

[KobeKlutch]

Kobe wasn't a sidekick because the media was all over Kobe that it bruised Shaq's ego.

I have never seen a sidekick get more coverage than Kobe.

He wasn't a sidekick, even though the stats may make it look that way.

[creepingdeath]

I hope you're gonna get the sh*t negged out of you, ol' buddy TheLogo. :lol Your style of writing is so atrociously unique, you would recognize it among millions of posts.

[laronprofit9]

I really don't understand how it's a bad thing Kobe was a sidekick to Shaq.

Most players in NBA history would be a sidekick to Shaq. When you have a guy who can give you 28 points a night on near 60% shooting, drawing most of the team's defensive attention with double and triple teams, forcing the opposing team to intentionally foul him, and just plain dominating an entire team on his own. You should by all means be the 1st option, and Phil Jackson made it so.

Most teams adjusted their teams for Shaq, not Kobe. Shaq caused more problems overall against the opposing team. Heck, I don't know one player past or present that would cause as many problems as Shaq. Even Michael Jordan.

Kobe Bryant being #2 to Shaq should hurt him in no way. He was still in the argument for being among the best players in the league, and he was probably the most productive #2 option in NBA history.

[indiefan24]

I really don't understand how it's a bad thing Kobe was a sidekick to Shaq.

Most players in NBA history would be a sidekick to Shaq. When you have a guy who can give you 28 points a night on near 60% shooting, drawing most of the team's defensive attention with double and triple teams, forcing the opposing team to intentionally foul him, and just plain dominating an entire team on his own. You should by all means be the 1st option, and Phil Jackson made it so.

Most teams adjusted their teams for Shaq, not Kobe. Shaq caused more problems overall against the opposing team. Heck, I don't know one player past or present that would cause as many problems as Shaq. Even Michael Jordan.

Kobe Bryant being #2 to Shaq should hurt him in no way. He was still in the argument for being among the best players in the league, and he was probably the most productive #2 option in NBA history.

:applause:

[laronprofit9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-5PgSKCEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64TQw4BUwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IyCD1B-9js

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqVm-cKHjk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=007Sw-mmUgU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uKvd8lqUgk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2S_2yrMywo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BPM9cpcTeI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaYTvH4xUxk

Destroying people this season.

[Roundball_Rock]

Has a side-kick ever had a better individual season?

Scottie Pippen?
Elgin Baylor/Jerry West?
James Worthy?
Kevin McHale?

1996 Scottie Pippen.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Kobe Bryant wasn't a sidekick in 2003.

[Samurai Swoosh]

I really don't understand how it's a bad thing Kobe was a sidekick to Shaq.

Most players in NBA history would be a sidekick to Shaq. When you have a guy who can give you 28 points a night on near 60% shooting, drawing most of the team's defensive attention with double and triple teams, forcing the opposing team to intentionally foul him, and just plain dominating an entire team on his own. You should by all means be the 1st option, and Phil Jackson made it so.

Most teams adjusted their teams for Shaq, not Kobe. Shaq caused more problems overall against the opposing team. Heck, I don't know one player past or present that would cause as many problems as Shaq. Even Michael Jordan.

Kobe Bryant being #2 to Shaq should hurt him in no way. He was still in the argument for being among the best players in the league, and he was probably the most productive #2 option in NBA history.
Jordan wouldn't be a damn sidekick to Shaq. There is a difference between running the offense through a low post scorer, and being the best player on the team. Kobe had the ARGUMENT of being the best player on the Lakers as early as 2001.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Kobe had the ARGUMENT of being the best player on the Lakers as early as 2001.

Not really, that's taking it a bit too far. I agree that he was no sidekick in 2003 and that even calling him a sidekick in '01 doesn't do his level of play justice, but O'Neal was considered by just about everyone to be the best player on not only the Lakers, but in the entire league. And while calling Kobe a sidekick in 2001 is deceptive because he was a top 3 player, a lot of people still considered him one.


Which means, get ready for more O'Neal and his sidekick Kobe Bryant. - 6/18/01 Los Angeles Times


With Kobe back as the faithful sidekick, the Lakers went on a tear - 6/4/01 Newsweek


Conspicuous by his absence was O'Neal's sidekick Bryant -6/7/01 Kansas City Star


If ONeal was the MVP Bryant was the Most Valuable Sidekick - 6/16/01 News Tribune


No matter how high he soars, he's still the sidekick to Shaquille O'Neal, the NBA's No. 1 unstoppable force. 6/1/01 The Sun

[OldSchoolBBall]

1996 Scottie Pippen.

LMAO @ the notion that '96 Pippen > 2003 Kobe, which is what it seems you're stating. Not even close. :oldlol:

[Indian guy]

By no means was Kobe a sidekick in 02-03. What sidekick attempts 24 FGA per game? That's nearly 6 more than Shaq! Kobe surpassed Shaq as LA's best player that year and was clearly the team's #1 option.

My Top 5 sidekick seasons over the last 20 years would be '01 & '02 Kobe, '92 Pippen, '10 Gasol and '06 Shaq.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Not really, that's taking it a bit too far. I agree that he was no sidekick in 2003 and that even calling him a sidekick in '01 doesn't do his level of play justice, but O'Neal was considered by just about everyone to be the best player on not only the Lakers, but in the entire league. And while calling Kobe a sidekick in 2001 is deceptive because he was a top 3 player, a lot of people still considered him one.
Sports writers selected Steve Nash as MVP in 2006, and Dirk Nowitzki as MVP in 2007. And you want me to believe the things they say? Kobe was def a sidekick in 2000, but the 2001 season ...

Oh yea and in 2001 Iverson won MVP ... and you def. disagree with that

29 PPG, 6 rpg, 5 apg?

Thats more than being a sidekick.

I said an argument could be made by 2001 that Kobe Bryant was the team's best player.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Sports writers selected Steve Nash as MVP in 2006, and Dirk Nowitzki as MVP in 2007. And you want me to believe the things they say? Kobe was def a sidekick in 2000, but the 2001 season ...

Oh yea and in 2001 Iverson won MVP ... and you def. disagree with that

29 PPG, 6 rpg, 5 apg?

Thats more than being a sidekick.

I said an argument could be made by 2001 that Kobe Bryant was the team's best player.

As I said twice, I don't think calling Kobe a sidekick is the best label myself, but Shaq was definitely the best player on the team.

Nothing against Kobe, who was top 3 that year, IMO, but Shaq was clearly better at that point. Like I said, starting in 2003 you could argue for either player, but I don't see a legit argument for Kobe over Shaq in '01.

[Samurai Swoosh]

As I said twice, I don't think calling Kobe a sidekick is the best label myself, but Shaq was definitely the best player on the team.

Nothing against Kobe, who was top 3 that year, IMO, but Shaq was clearly better at that point. Like I said, starting in 2003 you could argue for either player, but I don't see a legit argument for Kobe over Shaq in '01.
Maybe not better than Shaq, but a legit equal. Def not a sidekick in 2001.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Maybe not better than Shaq, but a legit equal. Def not a sidekick in 2001.

Nah, O'Neal was better statistically in the regular season and playoffs, the team was 11-3 w/ Shaq and w/o Kobe and just 5-3 w/ Kobe and w/o Shaq. Plus Shaq was more efficient offensively, got teams into a ridiculous amount of foul trouble, scored a bit more, drew more doubles and he was the anchor defensively.

I agree that sports writers are often idiots, but what about Larry Brown? Here's what he said of Shaq in 2001.


"I've never seen a better player in my life," 76ers coach Larry Brown said

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nba/01playoffs/finals/2001-06-15-shaq-mvp.htm

[magnax1]

03 Kobe and Shaq were about equal. 03 it was quite obvious that Shaq had lost his motivation and didn't really get it back until 05. He didn't play defense as well, and didn't pick up his play in the playoffs like he did the previous three years.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Nah, O'Neal was better statistically in the regular season and playoffs
Didn't Kobe out perform him in numerous high profile AWAY games in those very playoffs?

The numbers aren't ridiculously better.


Shaq was more efficient offensively
Shaq plays right next to the rim ... a Center should always be more efficient offensively than someone playing in the back court.


I agree that sports writers are often idiots, but what about Larry Brown? Here's what he said of Shaq in 2001.
Hyperbole, maybe? Shaq, himself in that same year or time frame said Kobe Bryant was the best player in the game. Or something along those lines.

:oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Didn't Kobe out perform him in numerous high profile AWAY games in those very playoffs?

Outperforming someone for a few games is not as impressive as outperforming someone for the playoffs as a whole and the season as a whole.


The numbers aren't ridiculously better.

Regardless of how much better they are, they're better.


Shaq plays right next to the rim ... a Center should always be more efficient offensively than someone playing in the back court.

I'm not talking about more impressive as far as the skills, I'm talking about effectiveness.


Hyperbole, maybe? Shaq, himself in that same year or time frame said Kobe Bryant was the best player in the game. Or something along those lines.

:oldlol:

Yes, Shaq did say that, but Shaq is the same guy who said Garnett didn't play defense in '08 and a variety of other things. I don't think anyone takes what Shaq says seriously. I can't remember Larry Brown consistently joking and saying ridiculous things like Shaq has for years.

How much better Shaq was is arguable, and something I don't care enough about to argue, but he was better in 2001.

[Samurai Swoosh]

How much better Shaq was is arguable, and something I don't care enough about to argue, but he was better in 2001.
All I'm saying is that by labeling Kobe a sidekick in 2001 is diminishing what he actually was ... it was far more a two headed monster in LA in 2001 than it was Shaq, and his little Robin aka Kobe Bryant.

Wade was clearly better than Shaq in 2005 in the reg season and the playoffs, but you damn sure make a ridiculous argument that he was his team's best player that year.

:facepalm

You just have a bias towards Shaq, and thats cool. He's your guy. But it was much more a 1 a / 1 b scenario with Shaq and Kobe in 2001. Thats why they were so dominant. You had 2 of the top 5 players in the game on the same team. It was a two headed monster. Not Shaq, with his boy Tonto.

:oldlol:

Kobe was the one who closed out some of the most important games and series that year as well. Calling him a sidekick is demeaning and is unjust given the quality of his play in 2001.

2000? No argument there. Clear sidekick. 2001? You have got to be ****ing kidding me w/ that bull shit.

[Jasper]

I think Kobe has a legit argument - that for three years in the Laker 3 peat that he might be the best 2nd option in league history.

I still fav Pip as the best sidekick in league history because of the 6 rings and chemistry between Jordan and Pip.

But that Shaq / Kobe 3 peat (Kobe was a GREAT SIDEKICK)


-----------
That is why even if he wins 6-8 rings , the value is not like Russell or Jordan.

[Jasper]

By no means was Kobe a sidekick in 02-03. What sidekick attempts 24 FGA per game? That's nearly 6 more than Shaq! Kobe surpassed Shaq as LA's best player that year and was clearly the team's #1 option.

My Top 5 sidekick seasons over the last 20 years would be '01 & '02 Kobe, '92 Pippen, '10 Gasol and '06 Shaq.

How soon we forget.
Many of those shots were contested , while Shaq sat in the lane wide open.
While many people remember the glory moments of the Laker run ... I was a nuetral party , and saw many times Shaq shaking his head , or looking at the bench. Needless to say the comments from Tex Winter :D

[BallsOut]

How soon we forget.
Many of those shots were contested , while Shaq sat in the lane wide open.
While many people remember the glory moments of the Laker run ... I was a nuetral party , and saw many times Shaq shaking his head , or looking at the bench. Needless to say the comments from Tex Winter :D

lol @ Shaq sitting in the lane wide open. What dumbass would leave Shaq in the lane wide open ever? :oldlol:

[Samurai Swoosh]

How soon we forget.
Many of those shots were contested , while Shaq sat in the lane wide open.
While many people remember the glory moments of the Laker run ... I was a nuetral party , and saw many times Shaq shaking his head , or looking at the bench. Needless to say the comments from Tex Winter :D
What do you expect when you ask a lion to be a house cat? Kobe Bryant wasn't built mentally by god to be a Kato to someone else's Green Hornet. It's amazing they won 3 rings given that dynamic.

[Samurai Swoosh]

lol @ Shaq sitting in the lane wide open. What dumbass would leave Shaq in the lane wide open ever? :oldlol:
You didn't see Shaq's career high scoring game against the Clippers? So many points came off him being wide open for lobs.

[BallsOut]

You didn't see Shaq's career high scoring game against the Clippers? So many points came off him being wide open for lobs.

Difference between playing fronting defense and being left wide open.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Difference between playing fronting defense and being left wide open.
That's true too ... yeah, I doubt Shaq was every truly "left wide open" but hey ... haters have to cling to something, right?

[ShaqAttack3234]

All I'm saying is that by labeling Kobe a sidekick in 2001 is diminishing what he actually was ... it was far more a two headed monster in LA in 2001 than it was Shaq, and his little Robin aka Kobe Bryant.

I said that twice, I said that Kobe was a top 3 player that year and calling him a sidekick does sound wrong, my point was my definition of 1A/1B is when I can't comfortably state one player was better than the other.


Wade was clearly better than Shaq in 2005 in the reg season and the playoffs, but you damn sure make a ridiculous argument that he was his team's best player that year.

This is an argument we've had many times before so I won't elaborate further on this. :oldlol:


You just have a bias towards Shaq, and thats cool. He's your guy. But it was much more a 1 a / 1 b scenario with Shaq and Kobe in 2001. Thats why they were so dominant. You had 2 of the top 5 players in the game on the same team. It was a two headed monster. Not Shaq, with his boy Tonto.

I said basically the same thing minus the 1A/1B part. It was pretty much pick your poison when they were firing on all cylinders later in the season and the playoffs. If someone's definition of 1A/1B is two top players who can take over and dominate a game or in other words, 2 first option caliber players then that fits the duo, but my definition is different.


Kobe was the one who closed out some of the most important games and series that year as well. Calling him a sidekick is demeaning and is unjust given the quality of his play in 2001.

See above. The guy was a top 3 player, this is something I've said a million times, and I've said just as many times that I thought he was the 2nd best player in the entire playoffs.

And again, I'm not the one who calls Kobe a sidekick, I call him number 2 on the team because I feel there was a player who I feel comfortable saying was the best player in the league that year on Kobe's team.

2 posts of mine from this same thread just to make sure you don't think I'm the one who writes off Kobe's play that year as those of a "sidekick".


As I said twice, I don't think calling Kobe a sidekick is the best label myself, but Shaq was definitely the best player on the team.


I agree that he was no sidekick in 2003 and that even calling him a sidekick in '01 doesn't do his level of play justice

[DatWasNashty]

The Kobe Bryant stan is the absolute worst. Shaq > Kobe in 2001 by a lot. Shaq still > Kobe in 2003 however the margin isn't as clear as it was a couple of years prior.

[che guevara]

1996 Scottie Pippen.
:oldlol: Did you seriously just imply that 1996 Pippen was better than 2003 Kobe?


Well, I agree to some extent, he had lost a bit as far as mobility and explosiveness(this started in 2002 actually) due to the weight gain and his defense wasn't as good despite finishing among the league leaders in blocks and making the all-defensive second team.
Statistically, Shaq actually had a slightly better season in '03 than '02. His ppg, rebounds, assists, and blocks were all up and he shot a career high 62% from the line which was good enough to make teams pay for fouling him, though he was obviously less mobile than he had been in prior seasons. I remember hearing at the time that Shaq worked with a shooting coach who changed his form, but he promptly stopped working with him after the season and his FT% plummeted as a result.

[Jacks3]

LMAO @ the notion that '96 Pippen > 2003 Kobe, which is what it seems you're stating. Not even close. :oldlol:

Kobe was better, but it's not some huge gap. Stop downplaying Pippen to prop up Jordan. :facepalm

[laronprofit9]

:applause:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe was better, but it's not some huge gap. Stop downplaying Pippen to prop up Jordan. :facepalm

It certainly is a large gap. Like 10-15%. Assuming all teammates were average players, how many teams would a Pippen-led team win versus a 2001+ Kobe-led team? Maybe like 15-20? Maybe. There's your answer as to who the better player is.

[Roundball_Rock]

I was answering the question. 03' Bryant does not fall under the "sidekick" category.


It certainly is a large gap. Like 10-15%. Assuming all teammates were average players, how many teams would a Pippen-led team win versus a 2001+ Kobe-led team? Maybe like 15-20? Maybe. There's your answer as to who the better player is.

Pippen without Jordan in 94': 51-21
Kobe without Shaq from 2000-2004: 24-29 (the numbers for 2000-2002 are similar but I don't know them off the top of my head)

[OldSchoolBBall]

I was answering the question. 03' Bryant does not fall under the "sidekick" category.



Pippen without Jordan in 94': 51-21
Kobe without Shaq from 2000-2004: 24-29 (the numbers for 2000-2002 are similar but I don't know them off the top of my head)

:oldlol:

Keep telling yourself that Pippen >= Kobe.

[Heilige]

By no means was Kobe a sidekick in 02-03. What sidekick attempts 24 FGA per game? That's nearly 6 more than Shaq! Kobe surpassed Shaq as LA's best player that year and was clearly the team's #1 option.

My Top 5 sidekick seasons over the last 20 years would be '01 & '02 Kobe, '92 Pippen, '10 Gasol and '06 Shaq.


Kobe was a sidekick in 02-03. After the 03-04 season was over he told Phil Jackson he was tired of being a sidekick fir the past 8 years. He stopped becoming a sidekick in 04-05.

[necya]

"sidekick" means nothing...
and kobe was too strong to be considered like that...come on, 30ppg...
anyway 02-03 kobe is the version i "hate" the most. he played just for himself...sad with all his talent.

[MakeHistory78]

Lebron will top Kobe in 2010 - 2011 as the best sidekick of all time. Book it/
:facepalm .Youngsters make me laugh.Why kidding yourself?Hate LBJ or love LBJ he is the best player on the Heat and the best player in the game and it's not even close.Simple..He is the best.

As about the thread I agree with LaronProfit9

[laronprofit9]

:rockon:

[EarlTheGoat]

Kobe Bryant was not a side-kick in 2003, no matter how much you twist/turn/manipulate the situation.

[laronprofit9]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YqiViGHl8jM

Amazing year.

[Im Still Ballin]

Hell of a sidekick to Shaq!

[ImKobe]

Hell of a sidekick to Shaq!

sidekicks lead the team in scoring, MVP votes, DPOY votes?