Jordan playing with the Wizards: Good or bad for his legacy?

[joe]

Watching some Wizards Jordan footage got me pondering this question. I've always believed the comeback to be positive for his legacy, although most seem to disagree with me. For him to come back at that age, and not only not embarrass himself but to actually perform pretty well, says a lot about his game.

----

Stats:

01-02 (Wizards)

Points: 22.9
Assists: 5.2
Rebounds: 5.7
FG% .416
3 PT %: .189
Minutes Per Game: 34.9
Steals: 1.42

02-03 (Wizards

Points: 20
Assists:3.8
Rebounds:6.1
FG%:.445
3 PT%: .291
Minutes Per Game:37
Steals: 1.5

http://www.nba.com/history/players/jordan_stats.html

-----
Videos:

Jordan scoring 43 at age 40:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TkvX356cpQ&feature=related

Jordan scoring 51(!!) at age 38:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

Jordan hits game winner Vs Knicks in 2002 (The shot is at about 5:20 in the video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi_sLyekcDY

Jordan hits game winner Vs Cavs in 2002 (Shot is at about 5:50)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwW9XbwlV1o

[Soundwave]

It was kind of an interesting experiment I guess.

IMO if he was gonna do this though he should've joined Scottie in Portland or something.

But really if he wanted to play, and obviously he still had some game left, then really he didn't owe anyone anything, he could do that just for himself and that was fine.

[White Chocolate]

How was it bad? 20 PPG at 40, 40+ point game at the same age and was actually an MVP candidate at 39. The man had the WIZARDS, a team consisting of Kwame Brown, Rip Hamilton, Popeye Jones, and Chris Whitney pushing for home court in round 1 until February.

[FormerSunsFan]

Bad. His legacy would be perfect ending with his outstretch arm in the air following through on his jumper in Utah.

If it weren't for the 95 series against Orlando and the somewhat botched comeback attempt in Washington (no thanks to Ron Artest--for those in the know) people would probably reason that Jordan could have won around 10 or perhaps even more titles (91-99 at least). But those failures make him seem mortal, to me at least.

[DuMa]

his legacy was already intact, so he couldnt hurt it anymore really. i remember those wizard years and i was just finishing up my college years. i hardly had any time to watch those games and when i did, it was hard for me to watch them knowing how much better he was in his prime. or even just 3 years ago in 2001.

but really any GOAT player will never have their legacies hurt by playing into their late 30s and early 40s.

it didnt hurt magic when he came back 2 different times.
it didnt hurt kareem when he kept playing into his 40s.

people usually forget those things and pick the peak/prime years to compare instead

[OldSchoolBBall]

It was a positive if you're not biased against him. Some key facts regarding his Wizards stint at age 39/40:


- Up until hurting his knee and sitting out for a month just after the ASG, Jordan was one of only two players in the league to be averaging 26/6/5. He was averaging 26.2 pts/6.1 reb/5.2 ast/43% FG...at age 39 with bad knees.

- Jordan in 2002 at age 39 scored 40+ points more than all but 3 players (AI, Shaq, and TMac), including back-to-back games of 40+ points twice that season.

- Jordan, before getting injured, had the Wizards at a 26-21 record and in the 6th seed in the EC, on pace for 44-46 wins. This is a team that had won just 19 games the entire previous season, and which had lost 3 of its top 5 players in the offseason on top of that. Had Jordan not gotten injured, you're looking at a playoff berth (5th-6th spot) and a 24-27 win improvement from the previous season - again, with Jordan at age 39. Remarkable.

- Jordan managed to play all 82 games at age 40 in the 2003 season. As he worked himself back into shape throughout the season, his play improved as the season progressed. Over the final 30 games of the season after turning age 40, Jordan averaged 23.2 pts/7.2 reb/3.8 ast/1.5 stl/.5 blk/46% FG. Those are basically prime RJeff/JRich numbers, and dude was 40 years old on two bum knees. Think about that.

- MJ became the oldest player to score 40 and 50 points by a large margin (I think 40+ by 1-2 years of age and 50+ by 3.5 years of age -- he broke his own record on that one).

- MJ managed to score 23 consecutive points in a game vs. NJ, tying his (then) NBA record for consecutive points scored for a team.

- Jordan was considered a leading MVP candidate going into the 2002 All-Star break due to his individual production and the team's remarkable turnaround from the year prior.


In my opinion, it only made his legacy all the more amazing. Yes, his career stats did take a hit -- 31.5 pts/51% FG looks bettter than 30.1 pts/50% FG -- but overall his legacy was only enhanced imo.

[keep-itreal]

I'm sure during that time, people are just glad to get another chance to see The GOAT on the court

[Sarcastic]

Positive.

He did something that will probably never be done again, or at least won't be done for a LOOOONG time.

He scored 40 points at 40 years old. That record ain't going down.

[ImmortalD24]

If I'm Michael Jordan, I'd rather go out on top with that game winning push-off jumper in Byron Russell's eye.. but as a fan you always want to see MJ play. If he still has the love for the game and wants to play, then it's all gravy.. the fans win.

[beermonsteroo]

Well without the Injury in February 2002 it would have been good. Jordan was really on pace for 25.5ppg 6apg 6 rpg and the Wizards probably would have finished with a 45 37 record or something. In the weak east they certainly could have won one or two playoff rounds. So this would have been a major succes. But after the injury he should not have come back anymore. The 02/03season was a mistake in my opinion.

[Solid Snake]

Just going off memory, he seemed better in 02-03 than in 01-02. Just seemed more efficient for some reason. He scored less but at a higher FG%.

Just my thoughts on this, but I just remember the general feeling watching him, there was always this anxious feeling I had hoping he wouldn't be embarrased. Anytime he isolated, I was praying he wouldn't get ripped. Anytime he would pump fake and go for a fadeaway, I felt like there was a better chance of it being blocked than going in. And oh god, everytime he went for a dunk, just painful to watch knowing there was a 28% chance he would botch the dunk.

My number one favorite memory? When he absolutely raped mercer on that snatch the ball from the air block he had.

My second favorite is less dynamic, but it's the image of Jordan diving on the ground for the loose ball, as Bill Walton lamented about how none of the other players are playing as hard, as we have this 40 year old diving on the floor. I also distinctly remember Jordan hitting his chin on the hardwood on that dive, seeming unphased by it, but only after the play was over and the ball secure, did he show how painful that was, as he reacted and you could see him wincing in pain. Only after he got the ball back for his team though.

The thing I want to know the most? The cover up with the Ron Artest story. WTF happened here? What a perfect builtin excuse. So fight for a rebound, Artest accidentally dropped Jordan to the ground. Broken ribs. Right. Also I bet no one remembers how there was a gag order Jordan placed on the participants of his unofficial "training camp" when he was originally getting in shape, something to do with how he was playing, etc.

[necya]

i don't take into account his 2nd return, he came back just for fun...it was a pleasure for his fans

[Harison]

I actually enjoyed watching him playing in Wizzards, although it was painful at times as well (like several times he tried to dunk and was rejected by the rim :(). His legacy was intact, and although he slightly harmed his career averages, I dont care about it, I much rather see old guy schooling youngsters :cheers: When you see such talent on the floor its fascinating, and one can appreciate who Jordan is even more.

I would love for Jordan to play even today, even if its friendly or Legends All-star games.

[AK47DR91]

He was still great on a shitty team. I think Rip was there the first season then was traded for Stackhouse the next season.

[ImmortalD24]

It's funny how some Jordan fans use his best games as a 39-40 year old playing for the Wizards as proof that he would dominate in this era.. yet he doesn't even come close to 50% FG for the season (along with terrible 3pt shooting).. Got to love the hypocrisy there. :lol

And just for the record, I know Jordan would be dominant in any era.

[ukballer]

I don't think it affects his legacy at all. When you think of MJ, 99% of the time, any random person would remember him for his exploits with the Bulls. Not many talk about his Wizards days.

If anything, I think it helped his legacy, and just proved his love for the game to us. The level of play he was able to produce as well was still all-star level, and astonished some people.

The 'youtube' era we are currently in is a big help too, for the kids, or whoever else who wouldn't have seen Jordan play in his prime, and may have only seen him during his Wizards days. I'm sure there are still plenty of shows on TV with MJ in them, showcasing his talents in a Bulls uniform.

In a way, the MJ comeback kind of reminds me of the comeback Michael Schumacher has made to Formula One this season. Arguably the greatest driver of all time, who has won 7 World Championships, who retired in 2006. Decided to come back to F1 in 2010, as a 41 year old who hasn't driven a race car in anger since 06, potentially putting his reputation on the line, simply because he loves the sport, and missed it. (Granted, the

[ImmortalD24]

Solid Snake?

Jordan proved he had the tools to dominate during the mid 80's & 90's, the "toughest era in basketball". I don't need to watch a watered down MJ in the 00's as further proof that he had the tools to beast in todays league and against todays players during his prime.

[Fizdale]

ukballer hit the jackpot on the Schumi comparison, was about to post that.

Just like the MJ homers, everytime Schumi races this year, I always hope that he doesnt get embarassed or get overtaked by someone, though sadly....that already happened a lot of times this season, but im looking forward for the next season when he actually has a good car.

I personally think it was good for MJ. Definitely like that idea of putting a Legends game in the All-star Weekend (though it must be ones retired within 8 years, i'm sure nobody wanna see 60-70 year olds playing out there)

But I found a clip in Youtube recently....he still has that J and was schooling a Slamball player.

[El Kabong]

For those of you interested in Jordans two years playing for Washington you should go read When Nothing Else Matters by Michael Leahy. Its a good read, it's not just a Jordan book, it's got stuff about the entire Washington team throughout the two years Jordan was playing.

[2LeTTeRS]

Just going off memory, he seemed better in 02-03 than in 01-02. Just seemed more efficient for some reason. He scored less but at a higher FG%.

Just my thoughts on this, but I just remember the general feeling watching him, there was always this anxious feeling I had hoping he wouldn't be embarrased. Anytime he isolated, I was praying he wouldn't get ripped. Anytime he would pump fake and go for a fadeaway, I felt like there was a better chance of it being blocked than going in. And oh god, everytime he went for a dunk, just painful to watch knowing there was a 28% chance he would botch the dunk.

My number one favorite memory? When he absolutely raped mercer on that snatch the ball from the air block he had.

My second favorite is less dynamic, but it's the image of Jordan diving on the ground for the loose ball, as Bill Walton lamented about how none of the other players are playing as hard, as we have this 40 year old diving on the floor. I also distinctly remember Jordan hitting his chin on the hardwood on that dive, seeming unphased by it, but only after the play was over and the ball secure, did he show how painful that was, as he reacted and you could see him wincing in pain. Only after he got the ball back for his team though.

The thing I want to know the most? The cover up with the Ron Artest story. WTF happened here? What a perfect builtin excuse. So fight for a rebound, Artest accidentally dropped Jordan to the ground. Broken ribs. Right. Also I bet no one remembers how there was a gag order Jordan placed on the participants of his unofficial "training camp" when he was originally getting in shape, something to do with how he was playing, etc.

Supposedly the gag order was put in when Jordan was still deciding if he would be coming back or not. Knowing what we know now I figure he pretty much knew he was coming back but didn't want reports on how serious he was about it or the condition he was in leaking (remember he looked a little pudgy the previous year working as an exec for the Wiz).

And from what I remember the story with Artest was during a summer game while MJ was training with several NBAers Ron broke his ribs. If I remember correctly this stopped all the media speculation on a MJ comeback for that summer, until Jordan was ready to announce he was coming back.

[asdf1990]

his legacy was set in stone after the 98 season, he cud have averaged 5 ppg as a wizard he would still be the GOAT.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It hurt his legacy. Not because it made him a worse player, what he did as a Bull is amazing. There is a minority that may say Wilt or Kareem was better but he is still regarded by the majority as GOAT. No, it hurt his legacy because it let people see him go out there and perform as a non-MVP candidate, indeed a not-top ten player. Which in turn lead to people saying he "made a mistake," and "hurt his legacy." Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the perception, when it comes to something like a legacy, is the reality.

But on the bright side, his Wizards stint was forgettable. ESPN certainly doesn't mention it often and as it's discussed and thought of less it's effect on people's perceptions diminishes. If you look at football, no one thinks of Montana as a Chief and Favre's stint with the Jets is already almost forgotten. Going back to basketball, when you think of Karl Malone you probably don't think of the Lakers, or Nique as a Celtic. MJ's time as a Wizard is more like a weird dream we're not sure we had than anything else.

[andgar923]

It's funny how some Jordan fans use his best games as a 39-40 year old playing for the Wizards as proof that he would dominate in this era.. yet he doesn't even come close to 50% FG for the season (along with terrible 3pt shooting).. Got to love the hypocrisy there. :lol

And just for the record, I know Jordan would be dominant in any era.

As opposed to Kobe fans using Kobe's best games while ignoring all of his bad ones?

Or Kobe fans somehow forgetting Kobe's career fg%, specially after he scores big points?

You Kobe stans never seem to let me down.

Btw.... this also proves that the 'zone' forcing players into becoming 3pt shooters and keeping players from posting up is a lie created to protect Kobe's bad decision making.

As far as MJ's legacy..... I think it proved that even tho he was past his prime, he could still play against today's modern day uber athletic players, and against the modern day advanced defense.

Its actually very scary to think what he'd do if he was in his prime.

[ImmortalD24]

As opposed to Kobe fans using Kobe's best games while ignoring all of his bad ones?

Or Kobe fans somehow forgetting Kobe's career fg%, specially after he scores big points?

You Kobe stans never seem to let me down.

Btw.... this also proves that the 'zone' forcing players into becoming 3pt shooters and keeping players from posting up is a lie created to protect Kobe's bad decision making.

As far as MJ's legacy..... I think it proved that even tho he was past his prime, he could still play against today's modern day uber athletic players, and against the modern day advanced defense.

Its actually very scary to think what he'd do if he was in his prime.
Yep.. Kobe stans are pathetic. But not as much as you hypocritical Jordan stans.

[andgar923]

Yep.. Kobe stans are pathetic. But not as much as you hypocritical Jordan stans.

MJ is what Kobe and his fans wish he was, it aint hypocritical when you're THE one and one supports THE one.

[BarberSchool]

Almost nothing could tarnish Jordan's legacy.
The Wizards era only hurt it in the tiniest way.

[hateraid]

Doesn't matter, the sportsworld just buries it along with the rest of Jordan's faults.

[WildStyle]

He should have stayed one more season and schooled LeBron and Wade.

[Calabis]

Just going off memory, he seemed better in 02-03 than in 01-02. Just seemed more efficient for some reason. He scored less but at a higher FG%.

Just my thoughts on this, but I just remember the general feeling watching him, there was always this anxious feeling I had hoping he wouldn't be embarrased. Anytime he isolated, I was praying he wouldn't get ripped. Anytime he would pump fake and go for a fadeaway, I felt like there was a better chance of it being blocked than going in. And oh god, everytime he went for a dunk, just painful to watch knowing there was a 28% chance he would botch the dunk.

My number one favorite memory? When he absolutely raped mercer on that snatch the ball from the air block he had.

My second favorite is less dynamic, but it's the image of Jordan diving on the ground for the loose ball, as Bill Walton lamented about how none of the other players are playing as hard, as we have this 40 year old diving on the floor. I also distinctly remember Jordan hitting his chin on the hardwood on that dive, seeming unphased by it, but only after the play was over and the ball secure, did he show how painful that was, as he reacted and you could see him wincing in pain. Only after he got the ball back for his team though.

The thing I want to know the most? The cover up with the Ron Artest story. WTF happened here? What a perfect builtin excuse. So fight for a rebound, Artest accidentally dropped Jordan to the ground. Broken ribs. Right. Also I bet no one remembers how there was a gag order Jordan placed on the participants of his unofficial "training camp" when he was originally getting in shape, something to do with how he was playing, etc.

It had nothing to do with the way he was playing, because it was said he was killing people....a story believed to be true

It's being said that Jordan was in full trash-talk mode that day. He had been telling Antoine Walker of the Celtics to count on four losses to the Wizards next season, and he was hitting jump shots in the face of Artest and taunting Artest about his time with the Bulls and was getting personal. The story is that Artest stayed back in the lane, and then when Jordan came in the next time, Artest grabbed him and slammed him to the floor. That's supposedly when the ribs were broken.

Artest is also said to have thrown a punch at Jordan afterward. Word is the participants were sworn to secrecy or wouldn't be allowed back in the private gym near Jordan's West Side restaurant. Who knows if it's true, but it certainly sounds more realistic than the story Jordan has been telling.

Ron even made a comment on how he wished it never happened, because it prevented MJ from coming back and that he would have been dropping 50

He went on to say that he'd have loved to have played against MJ in his prime (and that Jordan shared the sentiment), conjecturing that His Airness would've "given" the Artest still known as Artest 50 points. Odd how a defensive player would see a high scoring endeavor from his cover as a gift


Man I thought what he did was incredible at age 39-40 after a three year layoff. For me it cements that in his prime he would have been even more dominant in today's era, less physical abuse, changes in rules, would have just enhanced his play imo(No I'm not in the 40ppg club, bu I think he would have avg 3-4 more points a game with ease)..........personally though I thought he should have just stayed away.....last minute of play...... key lay-up to get it within 1, key steal, game winner......what a perfect script to end your career on.

[ImmortalD24]

MJ is what Kobe and his fans wish he was, it aint hypocritical when you're THE one and one supports THE one.
Incorrect and incoherent as usual.

MJ fans wish they were MJ. And yes you stans are definite hypocrites.

[Samurai Swoosh]

If I'm Michael Jordan, I'd rather go out on top with that game winning push-off jumper in Byron Russell's eye
Is that a back handed compliment? Otherwise what was the purpose of throwing that in there? It's not near the push off certain people try to make it seem. Did Jordan nudge Russell in the process? Yes, but Russell was super off balance playing for the drive (as Jordan blew past him on the previous offensive play) and yanked him back with the crossover. And Russell slipped because of the velocity of the move. To act like Jordan got free because of a "push off" is ridiculous. Watch the move in slow motion. Jordan's nudge wouldn't account for how fast and how hard Russell fell for that move. Otherwise you would've had to have seen an overtly obvious shove from Jordan.

[ImmortalD24]

Take it however you will.. the subtle yet effective push-off and all net jumper and the pose leaving his arm up there to top off an incredible legacy is what I remember. It isn't a slight, just how I recall the play.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5656/225254053l4lr.gif

It doesn't mean that I don't think he's the goat or anything sinister.

[jstern]

Is that a back handed compliment? Otherwise what was the purpose of throwing that in there? It's not near the push off certain people try to make it seem. Did Jordan nudge Russell in the process? Yes, but Russell was super off balance playing for the drive (as Jordan blew past him on the previous offensive play) and yanked him back with the crossover. And Russell slipped because of the velocity of the move. To act like Jordan got free because of a "push off" is ridiculous. Watch the move in slow motion. Jordan's nudge wouldn't account for how fast and how hard Russell fell for that move. Otherwise you would've had to have seen an overtly obvious shove from Jordan.

That play is one of the reasons why I don't waste my time arguing a lot with most people, since most of them are dumb. If you look that play up on youtube, it gets replayed in real time, in slow motion, and if you read the comments you will noticed that an insane amount of people are just dumb. They have no basic sense of the laws of physics just from being alive. They are willing to fight to the death that Jordan with super human strength was able to knock Russell to the floor with a light ass tap when Jordan's hand was going down, than Russell trying to desperately get back to Jordan who did a dead stop, after he was following him at full speed forward.

Since inmortad put that gif, here's the youtube video that shows it better from behind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRCTp57LQro

[Soundwave]

That's not a push off ... THIS is a push off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlNnLXBnMfM&feature=related

It was the 90s, where refs didn't call every little ticky tacky crap foul late in the game and left it up to the players.

Russell was way off balance anyway, Jordan was going to get a relatively clean look from the free throw line even if he hadn't slipped.

[step_back]

his legacy was already written in history, so it was more of a personal goal of seeing if he still had it. In terms of certain stats like career averages dropping slightly you can't really argue that it wasn't a good idea as the drops were pretty minimal.

Michael retired in 98 when realistically he could have played for another 2 years. I think this is what his regret was, I always think that when a player retires ontop they ponder whether or not they will get knocked off and who could do it.

as a competitor myself (in nature) I would rather my body tell me I can no longer do something then retiring when I still can and have more to give.

[TryToBeUnbias]

Both. He proved he could still play at a relatively good level even at the age of 38-40 (Good) But while doing that he did some damage to his all time stats (Bad).

[Sarcastic]

Was Babe Ruth's legacy ruined by playing for the Boston Braves in his last season?

Was Willie Mays legacy ruined by playing for the New York Mets in his last 2 seasons?

[97 bulls]

It hurt him in that his stats were lowered. But his play definately can be put into perspective by the fact that he was doing just as good as the best guards in the league at age 38- 40.

[97 bulls]

Take it however you will.. the subtle yet effective push-off and all net jumper and the pose leaving his arm up there to top off an incredible legacy is what I remember. It isn't a slight, just how I recall the play.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5656/225254053l4lr.gif

It doesn't mean that I don't think he's the goat or anything sinister.
It looks to me like russel was out of position. Unless you feel jordan physically picked him up and turned him around and then pushed him. And besides what reggie miller did to jordan in the ecf was farrrrr worse.

[kizut1659]

His legacy was too secure to be hurt, especially as while he was certainly not what he was - he was still pretty good and did not embarass himself ala Ali or Ruth. How many other NBA players averaged 20+ points at age 40?

[ThaRegul8r]

Was Willie Mays legacy ruined by playing for the New York Mets in his last 2 seasons?

You've never heard anyone talk about how painful it was to see Mays as a shell of his former self?

[oh the horror]

It was nothing but good. I still to this day, rant and rave about the fact that even an "old" Michael Jordan was schooling people in the league on the Wizards.


His legacy at that point was ALREADY etched in stone. Anything after that, short of a complete disaster, was just a bonus. And his stint with Washington was nothing close to a disaster. He did PRETTY DAMN WELL. I'd say

[mlh1981]

"legacy" is such a superfluous term to begin with.

The man wanted to play basketball. His final shot over Russell was OUR perfect ending, but not his.

The man simply missed the thrill of competition. For a guy like that, nothing in life can ever replace the thrill of competing against the best in the world.

Most of us retire in our 60s, and here was a guy, not even 40 years old, wanting to see if he could do it one last time. I'd imagine it would be tough to still be so young, relatively speaking, and be considered "over the hill" in any area of life.

More power to him for going out and doing it, rather than wondering about it for the rest of his days.

[oh the horror]

"legacy" is such a superfluous term to begin with.

The man wanted to play basketball. His final shot over Russell was OUR perfect ending, but not his.

The man simply missed the thrill of competition. For a guy like that, nothing in life can ever replace the thrill of competing against the best in the world.

Most of us retire in our 60s, and here was a guy, not even 40 years old, wanting to see if he could do it one last time. I'd imagine it would be tough to still be so young, relatively speaking, and be considered "over the hill" in any area of life.

More power to him for going out and doing it, rather than wondering about it for the rest of his days.



Yep, and not only did he go out there and do it, but he also did it well. Jordan still had it, and THEN some.

[PowerGlove]

He was still dropping 40+/50+ on people, how would that severely hurt his legacy? Sure he didnt have the team success, but he proved why people called him the GOAT in those two years. A slow, old Jordan that was still claiming lives on the basketball court? Come on, that kind of enhanced his legacy IMO. You just gotta give him props for the effort and not being washed up at that age.

[Sarcastic]

You've never heard anyone talk about how painful it was to see Mays as a shell of his former self?

Yea it was painful, but doesn't do anything to hurt his legacy as the best all around player ever.

[redhonda76]

It didn't hurt his legacy at all. MJ left the game for 3 years and came back to the Wizards who only won 19 games last year. MJ was not in game shape and was 20 pounds heavier than his former self and had to play the small forward spot at age of 38. He was still Wizards player and still average 20+ points. Who can do this at age of 38-39 and still be the top 10 player in the NBA????

[LA_Showtime]

It was fun to watch, aside from the all-star game when he basically looked like an idiot because he missed every shot he took.

[andgar923]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embqhggoep4&feature=sub

[ImmortalD24]

It was fun to watch, aside from the all-star game when he basically looked like an idiot because he missed every shot he took.
But he was so damn clutch.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RMphNr_aaY

Btw.. here's the numbers from that game:

[code]Eastern Conference
Player Min Fg 3pt Ft Off Def Tot Ast Pf St To Bs Pts
Allen Iverson* 41 13

[LA_Showtime]

But he was so damn clutch.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RMphNr_aaY

Not as clutch as Jermaine O'Neal. :oldlol: Totally ruined the moment.

[ImmortalD24]

Not as clutch as Jermaine O'Neal. :oldlol: Totally ruined the moment.
I wonder if that would've been a no-call in the Jordan era.

[chazzy]

It would've been nicer just to end his career with the classic game 6 ending, but his Wizards days didn't hurt him at all. That was just fun to watch.

But he was so damn clutch.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RMphNr_aaY

OT but I just noticed how similar these two shots are :oldlol:

http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D6RMphNr_aaY&start1=52&video2=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dk2kBHsRR9Uc&start2=26&authorName=Grey

refresh if it doesnt load properly

[beermonsteroo]

It didn't hurt his legacy at all. MJ left the game for 3 years and came back to the Wizards who only won 19 games last year. MJ was not in game shape and was 20 pounds heavier than his former self and had to play the small forward spot at age of 38. He was still Wizards player and still average 20+ points. Who can do this at age of 38-39 and still be the top 10 player in the NBA????

You are bringing a good point up here. I really don't undertsand why Jordan didn't drop more weight. Normally, when Michael did something, he did it 100%. However, he was clearly not in the best shape and should have dropped at least another 10 pounds before coming back. I think it would have really helped him. He would have been alot quicker without this extra weight and his knees would have been better too.

[thejumpa]

I'd pay money to see him drop weight and sign himself to the bobcats for one last hurrah. Imagine a 45 year old MJ doin work out there LOL.

[ImmortalD24]

I'd pay money to see him drop weight and sign himself to the bobcats for one last hurrah. Imagine a 45 year old MJ doin work out there LOL. Ditto. I would love to see the Bobcats (with MJ) play the Heat in a 7 game series. You know Jordan's unrivaled intensity wouldn't allow LeBron or Wade to get the best of him.

[Rolando]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embqhggoep4&feature=sub

Great vid. Garnett tried to guard Jordan on many possessions and got burnt. That's Prime Garnett too.:bowdown:

[beermonsteroo]

Great vid. Garnett tried to guard Jordan on many possessions and got burnt. That's Prime Garnett too.:bowdown:

Damn Jordan had really caught fire by January. His basketball legs were coming more and more back. He really looked quick in this one. Jordan attacked the rim like nothing. Damn that ****in inhury ruined everything :(

[Walker]

ukballer hit the jackpot on the Schumi comparison, was about to post that.

Just like the MJ homers, everytime Schumi races this year, I always hope that he doesnt get embarassed or get overtaked by someone, though sadly....that already happened a lot of times this season, but im looking forward for the next season when he actually has a good car.

There's one glaring difference between Schumacher and Jordan. Schumacher was not only a VERY dirty driver but a flat out cheater.
Constantly "double moving" to avoid being overtaken, purposely and sometimes blatantly (see 1994 Adelaide GP) hitting his title rivals in order to remain ontop of points standings, even stopping in the middle of the track during qualifying so no one else could set times on their final lap.
Don't even get me started on how many races Ferrari handed to him by making Irvine/Barachello/Massa let him pass.
It's GREAT to see that cheat now getting what he deserves, losing.

[DCL]

if anything, i thought it "enhanced" his legendary status.

how many 40 year olds had ever played like mj at 40?? :hammerhead:

age is always a factor and that has to be taken in perspective.

[Willkill24]

Bad, he has now dropped from GOAT to #15 :D

[Samurai Swoosh]

Ditto. I would love to see the Bobcats (with MJ) play the Heat in a 7 game series. You know Jordan's unrivaled intensity wouldn't allow LeBron or Wade to get the best of him.
Bro ... I know you don't mean this stuff, c'mon stop with the sarcasm. It's oozing out.

:oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Ditto. I would love to see the Bobcats (with MJ) play the Heat in a 7 game series. You know Jordan's unrivaled intensity wouldn't allow LeBron or Wade to get the best of him.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

I like Michael Jordan, but I don't think he can average over 11 ppg if he play for the Bobcats this season.

Any athletic SG/SF in the NBA would abuse Michael Jordan. Kobe dropped 55 points on MJ back in 2003.

[Ghettobird]

it showed how much he loved the game and he still had some hoops left

[ShaqAttack3234]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

I like Michael Jordan, but I don't think he can average over 11 ppg if he play for the Bobcats this season.

Any athletic SG/SF in the NBA would abuse Michael Jordan. Kobe dropped 55 points on MJ back in 2003.

Jordan didn't guard Kobe in that game with the exception of maybe a few possessions, the game is up on youtube for anyone to see.

[PowerGlove]

Jordan didn't guard Kobe in that game with the exception of maybe a few possessions, the game is up on youtube for anyone to see.
That and PRIME KOBE isnt the average "athletic 2-guard".:oldlol:

[Ghettobird]

I'd pay money to see him drop weight and sign himself to the bobcats for one last hurrah. Imagine a 45 year old MJ doin work out there LOL.


hell even if it was only preaseason games, you know that shit would sell out

[32jazz]

It's funny how some Jordan fans use his best games as a 39-40 year old playing for the Wizards as proof that he would dominate in this era.. yet he doesn't even come close to 50% FG for the season (along with terrible 3pt shooting).. Got to love the hypocrisy there. :lol




Great point.

I always knew that playing with the Wizards would be an almost win-win situation for MJ since he is literally worshipped by some(As opposed to Barkley & others who thought it would hurt). Just see some of the losers who worship him here:facepalm

When MJ plays great at 40 you hear the " look at what he is doing at 40!"

When he plays mediocre/poor or Kobe drops 55 on him "The man is 40 years old what do you expect?":oldlol:

It was win-win situation when it came to his worshippers.

[Apocalyptic0n3]

Jordan playing for the Wizards was good for his legacy. He, at least in my mind, made up for stepping away from the game early twice (even though he had good reason to do so, it still was an unpopular move).

However, Jordan being the GM for the Wizards was bad for his legacy.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I just remember Michael coming back to play in October 2001, a month after 9/11, and saying he's giving his entire salary to the victims of 9/11. That was great. Oh, and the block off the backboard / chase down was amazing. I also remember Richard Hamiltion doing the "fist pump" just as Jordan was doing it; almost like he couldn't stop himself from being like Mike.

[jlip]

I just remember Michael coming back to play in October 2001, a month after 9/11, and saying he's giving his entire salary to the victims of 9/11. That was great. Oh, and the block off the backboard / chase down was amazing. I also remember Richard Hamiltion doing the "fist pump" just as Jordan was doing it; almost like he couldn't stop himself from being like Mike.

I think he actually was supposed to have his press conference announcing his comeback on 9/11. I remembered waking up and putting my TV on ESPN expecting to hear them talking about this, but then seeing coverage of the tragic events of that day.

[bada bing]

jordan dominated when he was with the wizards. He showed everyone that he could still do it at an older age. How is this bad for his rep? I think it added more to it

[Ghettobird]

jordan dominated when he was with the wizards. He showed everyone that he could still do it at an older age. How is this bad for his rep? I think it added more to it

exactly he still got it done at his old age, it makes him better to mee

[Kobe_6/8]

if anything, i thought it "enhanced" his legendary status.

how many 40 year olds had ever played like mj at 40?? :hammerhead:

age is always a factor and that has to be taken in perspective.

http://giant.gfycat.com/DigitalActiveElectriceel.gif

[Cali Syndicate]

It was a positive if you're not biased against him. Some key facts regarding his Wizards stint at age 39/40:


- Up until hurting his knee and sitting out for a month just after the ASG, Jordan was one of only two players in the league to be averaging 26/6/5. He was averaging 26.2 pts/6.1 reb/5.2 ast/43% FG...at age 39 with bad knees.

- Jordan in 2002 at age 39 scored 40+ points more than all but 3 players (AI, Shaq, and TMac), including back-to-back games of 40+ points twice that season.

- Jordan, before getting injured, had the Wizards at a 26-21 record and in the 6th seed in the EC, on pace for 44-46 wins. This is a team that had won just 19 games the entire previous season, and which had lost 3 of its top 5 players in the offseason on top of that. Had Jordan not gotten injured, you're looking at a playoff berth (5th-6th spot) and a 24-27 win improvement from the previous season - again, with Jordan at age 39. Remarkable.

- Jordan managed to play all 82 games at age 40 in the 2003 season. As he worked himself back into shape throughout the season, his play improved as the season progressed. Over the final 30 games of the season after turning age 40, Jordan averaged 23.2 pts/7.2 reb/3.8 ast/1.5 stl/.5 blk/46% FG. Those are basically prime RJeff/JRich numbers, and dude was 40 years old on two bum knees. Think about that.

- MJ became the oldest player to score 40 and 50 points by a large margin (I think 40+ by 1-2 years of age and 50+ by 3.5 years of age -- he broke his own record on that one).

- MJ managed to score 23 consecutive points in a game vs. NJ, tying his (then) NBA record for consecutive points scored for a team.

- Jordan was considered a leading MVP candidate going into the 2002 All-Star break due to his individual production and the team's remarkable turnaround from the year prior.


In my opinion, it only made his legacy all the more amazing. Yes, his career stats did take a hit -- 31.5 pts/51% FG looks bettter than 30.1 pts/50% FG -- but overall his legacy was only enhanced imo.

Another fun fact, mj became the first player to score 50 in three separate decades.

[ArbitraryWater]

few things:

A)I prefer his final shot being the Championship winner over Russell
B)His career stats would look noticeably better (although who cares, just look at the Bulls years alone, thats what made him the GOAT)
C)Wasn't he scoring at a tremendous rate and had the Team in the Playoffs in 2001/2002 before getting injured)
D) But also, didn't he have like one of the lowest TS% of a 20 ppg scorer in 2003, EVER? Some stat like that

[iamgine]

Neither. It was quite forgettable thus not really affecting his legacy in positive or negative way.

[ClipperRevival]

It has no bearing on his legacy. He was 39 and 40 years old and had retired for 3 years before coming back. To me, his last shot as a Bull in 1998 was his real, final game. Whatever he did with the Wizards was sort of a freak show thing.

[ClipperRevival]

few things:

A)I prefer his final shot being the Championship winner over Russell
B)His career stats would look noticeably better (although who cares, just look at the Bulls years alone, thats what made him the GOAT)
C)Wasn't he scoring at a tremendous rate and had the Team in the Playoffs in 2001/2002 before getting injured)
D) But also, didn't he have like one of the lowest TS% of a 20 ppg scorer in 2003, EVER? Some stat like that

Regarding (B), yeah, if he didn't play for Washington, his career FG% would be at .505, which is incredible considering he was a high usage scorer. Not to mention, his ppg jumps from 30.1 to 31.5. Also add in 6.3 rpg, 5.4 apg, 2.5 spg and .9 bpg. Reason 1123423423 why MJ is simply the GOAT.

[smoovegittar]

Didn't matter; already achieved GOAT status, which has yet to be usurped.