Why is that 90% of players, coaches, GM and owners and HOF think Kobe is the best?

[StacksOnDeck]

But on ISH, it's Lebron.

:oldlol:

I wonder whose opinion I should to...

[Batz]

ESPN obviously.

[HighFlyer23]

have you been here since the "decision"?

[Bladers]

Isn't that wierd? hmm...:confusedshrug:

[Lakers13]

No need to rub it in boss, people are entitled to their own opinions.

[dr8ked]

Wade and lebron for some reason don't think so, they've been pointing out game 7 and his 6/24 FG perfomance. So if they are talking about it, it's alot of other players talking about it including HOF's and Coaches.. am i right :confusedshrug:

[LAClipsFan33]

I still believe Kobe is the best player on the best team, but not the best player individually in the whole league. I don't get why people always put this player or this coach said this or that.

99.9% of the league will say Phil Jackson is the best coach. Doesn't mean I have to think he is. In my mind he definitely isn't.

It's called opinion and if you know what you are analyzing well you don't need anybody else's opinion to form your own.

[Kblaze8855]

Last GM survey

Who will win the 2009-10 MVP?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 69.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 17.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 6.9%
Also receiving votes:
Tim Duncan, San Antonio; Dwyane Wade, Miami
- Last year: LeBron James 55.6%







LeBron James If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%
- Last year: LeBron James 66.7%







LeBron James Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 39.3%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 23.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 12.5%
Also receiving votes:
Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers; Shaquille O'Neal, Cleveland; Dwyane Wade, Miami


I dont know that that same group wouldnt say Lebron was the best player if they just flat out asked them. At least 3 GMs voting didnt think Kobe was the best 2 and he got no votes at all for best 3...so there are several GMs who think Kobe isnt even the best at his position. Forget the league.

Besides the hit or miss results of the draft alone should show that coaches and GMs(mostly former players) arent always the best evaluators of talent.

Michael Jordan can look at Kwame and Gasol and decide Kwame should be the #1 pick. But greatness at basketball makes you know talent?

*well aware that none of that is new information*

[imnew09]

ISH are full of amateurs who just started watching NBA recently.

Kobe is simply the best right now, name a current player who tops his legacy?
None.

[dr8ked]

Last GM survey

Who will win the 2009-10 MVP?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 69.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 17.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 6.9%
Also receiving votes:
Tim Duncan, San Antonio; Dwyane Wade, Miami
- Last year: LeBron James 55.6%







LeBron James If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%
- Last year: LeBron James 66.7%







LeBron James Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 39.3%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 23.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 12.5%
Also receiving votes:
Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers; Shaquille O'Neal, Cleveland; Dwyane Wade, Miami


I dont know that that same group wouldnt say Lebron was the best player if they just flat out asked them. At least 3 GMs voting didnt think Kobe was the best 2 and he got no votes at all for best 2...so there are several GMs who think Kobe isnt even the best at his position. Forget the league.

Besides the hit or miss results of the draft alone should show that coaches and GMs(mostly former players) arent always the best evaluators of talent.

Michael Jordan can look at Kwame and Gasol and decide Kwame should be the #1 pick. But greatness at basketball makes you know talent?

*well aware that none of that is new information*

where did you get this from ?

[ginobli2311]

Last GM survey

Who will win the 2009-10 MVP?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 69.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 17.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 6.9%
Also receiving votes:
Tim Duncan, San Antonio; Dwyane Wade, Miami
- Last year: LeBron James 55.6%







LeBron James If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%
- Last year: LeBron James 66.7%







LeBron James Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 39.3%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 23.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 12.5%
Also receiving votes:
Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers; Shaquille O'Neal, Cleveland; Dwyane Wade, Miami


I dont know that that same group wouldnt say Lebron was the best player if they just flat out asked them. At least 3 GMs voting didnt think Kobe was the best 2 and he got no votes at all for best 2...so there are several GMs who think Kobe isnt even the best at his position. Forget the league.

Besides the hit or miss results of the draft alone should show that coaches and GMs(mostly former players) arent always the best evaluators of talent.

Michael Jordan can look at Kwame and Gasol and decide Kwame should be the #1 pick. But greatness at basketball makes you know talent?

*well aware that none of that is new information*

lol. i was just about to post a similar thing. end thread.

[The Iron Fist]

lol. i was just about to post a similar thing. end thread.

No, lets keep it open.

When 90% of players, coaches, GMS and owners and HOF say Jordan is the goat,


its taken as gospel.

Now, explain to me why it works for one, and not the other?

[LAClipsFan33]

Last GM survey

Who will win the 2009-10 MVP?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 69.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 17.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 6.9%
Also receiving votes:
Tim Duncan, San Antonio; Dwyane Wade, Miami
- Last year: LeBron James 55.6%







LeBron James If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%
- Last year: LeBron James 66.7%







LeBron James Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 39.3%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 23.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 12.5%
Also receiving votes:
Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers; Shaquille O'Neal, Cleveland; Dwyane Wade, Miami


I dont know that that same group wouldnt say Lebron was the best player if they just flat out asked them. At least 3 GMs voting didnt think Kobe was the best 2 and he got no votes at all for best 2...so there are several GMs who think Kobe isnt even the best at his position. Forget the league.

Besides the hit or miss results of the draft alone should show that coaches and GMs(mostly former players) arent always the best evaluators of talent.

Michael Jordan can look at Kwame and Gasol and decide Kwame should be the #1 pick. But greatness at basketball makes you know talent?

*well aware that none of that is new information*

Ether...that sh!t that make your soul burn slow

[insidious301]

Where exactly did you get "90%" from?

[ginobli2311]

No, lets keep it open.

When 90% of players, coaches, GMS and owners and HOF say Jordan is the goat,


its taken as gospel.

Now, explain to me why it works for one, and not the other?

because 90% of players, coaches, GMS don't actually feel that way bud. just look at the above numbers. everyone knows that lebron is a better player than kobe now and has been for the last 3 or 4 years. same thing with wade....its obvious the wade is just as good or better than both kobe and lebron.

there is a reason why lebron has won 2 mvps in 7 years and has already trumped kobe's career numbers even coming out of high school. do you want to go back and look at kobe's numbers after 7 years? LOL. and don't pull the shaq card.....kobe got up 22 shots a game in his 4th year.

and on jordan. jordan actually backed up the general consensus with his stats and play. kobe does not. its that simple.

[YAWN]

Last GM survey


these don't really arrive at the point you were trying to make...

Who will win the 2009-10 MVP? good stats on a "one man team"

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be? age is a significant factor here.

Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments? again the "one man team" thing. no other player had the kind of offensive "system" that mike brown had. which often included giving the ball to one guy and just let him dribble around for a bunch then do whatever he wanted.

Now im not saying that your conclusion is flawed, because i feel the difference between the top 3 players in the league is miniscule and thus their ranks are interchangeable. Just pointing out that poll answers don't back up your point.

[LAClipsFan33]

Where exactly did you get "90%" from?

Pulled the directly out of his ass. Stats on Deck...directly removed from anus.

[dr8ked]

No, lets keep it open.

When 90% of players, coaches, GMS and owners and HOF say Jordan is the goat,


its taken as gospel.

Now, explain to me why it works for one, and not the other?


But if you have numbers that prove that jordan is goat post them. Because the polls posted here indicate OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Bladers]

there is a reason why lebron has won 2 mvps in 7 years and has already trumped kobe's career numbers even coming out of high school.

Lebron hasn't touched Kobe's numbers...
All those rebounds don't mean shit.
Kobe is a Shooting guard.
Lebron's as a scorer isn't anything near Kobe.
Considering that Kobe played with Shaq and a good team.
So he didn't have the opportunity to score 30+ in the early of his career.
Unless he would have had an average of 35+ in his career.
But when Shaq left, he went nuts and started scoring 30+ and so many 50+ games.

If Kobe didn't have Shaq, He would had averaged 35 points per game like 5 times!
Would have passed Jordan in most 30pt, 40pt and 50pt games.

[ginobli2311]

Lebron hasn't touched Kobe's numbers...
All those rebounds don't mean shit.
Kobe is a Shooting guard.
Lebron's as a scorer isn't anything near Kobe.
Considering that Kobe played with Shaq and a good team.
So he didn't have the opportunity to score 30+ in the early of his career.
Unless he would have had an average of 30+ in his career.
But when Shaq left, he went nuts and started scoring 30+ and so many 50+ games.


kobe for his career in the playoffs:

20.3 shots per game and 25.5 points on 44.8% from the field

lebron for his career in the playoffs:

21.2 shots per game and 29.3 points on 46% from the field


how can you say lebron is not the scorer that kobe is? he takes only 1 more shot yet he scores almost 4 more points. lebron's efficiency is much better and thats even more impressive when you factor in that lebron was forced to carry a playoff team very early in his career. also factor in that lebron has never had the kind of supporting cast or coaching that kobe has had.

so lets get this straight. lebron scores more points at a higher efficiency and has done that with defenses being able to focus more on him than defense can focus on kobe........yet you say that "Lebron isn't anywhere near Kobe as a scorer"

do you not see how idiotic that is?

then factor in lebron's superior rebounding....which now "all those rebounds don't mean shit"....but they mean everything in game 7? what????????

factor in lebron's superior passing and willingness to share the ball and his superior assist to turnover ration. his superiror PER. superior win shares per 48 minutes (quite a big difference)....etc etc etc.

again. owned.

[ginobli2311]

If Kobe didn't have Shaq, He would had averaged 35 points per game like 5 times![/B]
Would have passed Jordan in most 30pt, 40pt and 50pt games.


is that supposed to be amazing or something? if iverson had shot as much as kobe in 06 he would have scored more points per game. so what?

do you not think that lebron wouldn't score over 35 a game in a season if he took over 27 shots? LOL.

[jstern]

I think most annalist, coaches, etc think Lebron is the best, but when a Kobe fans hears one player say Kobe is better, to them it = like 20 players saying it. Similar to like when a meh NBA players says Kobe is the best and a Kobe fan immediately starts a tread about it, because to them it's like validation.

[dr8ked]

Lebron hasn't touched Kobe's numbers...
All those rebounds don't mean shit.
Kobe is a Shooting guard.
Lebron's as a scorer isn't anything near Kobe.
Considering that Kobe played with Shaq and a good team.
So he didn't have the opportunity to score 30+ in the early of his career.
Unless he would have had an average of 35+ in his career.
But when Shaq left, he went nuts and started scoring 30+ and so many 50+ games.

If Kobe didn't have Shaq, He would had averaged 35 points per game like 5 times!
Would have passed Jordan in most 30pt, 40pt and 50pt games.



And he could've never won his 1st 3rings in the process.

[Bladers]

kobe for his career in the playoffs:

20.3 shots per game and 25.5 points on 44.8% from the field

lebron for his career in the playoffs:

21.2 shots per game and 29.3 points on 46% from the field



Again, In Kobe's early career he had shaq and a championship team.
Lebron had himself and no one else.

Its hard to compare two players where one was the only man on the team.
While the other had another player.



how can you say lebron is not the scorer that kobe is?
He's not. Look at the record books.
How many 50 point games do Lebron have?
How many 60?
How many 80?
How many records have he broken except for rebounding?

Just admit it, all Lebron can do is REBOUND! :confusedshrug:


he takes only 1 more shot yet he scores almost 4 more points. lebron's efficiency is much better and thats even more impressive when you factor in that lebron was forced to carry a playoff team very early in his career. also factor in that lebron has never had the kind of supporting cast or coaching that kobe has had.


Like i said You can't compare a guy who was #1 on his team to a guy who had another person.



so lets get this straight. lebron scores more points at a higher efficiency and has done that with defenses being able to focus more on him than defense can focus on kobe........yet you say that "Lebron isn't anywhere near Kobe as a scorer"

The reason he's playoff scoring is low is because he played with Shaq, point blank!



do you not see how idiotic that is?

No its not. Your the one who sounds like an idiot.
You factor in 7 years playoffs of a guy who was clearly not #1 on his team.
and you compare the scoring with a guy who was the only #1 on his team.

That doesn't make sense!


again. owned.
You didn't own anybody.
Talk to me when Lebron scores 81, or 62 in three quarters.
Talk to me when he avg 45 in 1/2 months or 9 straight 40 point games.
Talk to me when he starts breaking scoring records like Jordan.

This is why Lebron will never be compared to Jordan or Kobe, All he can do is but REBOUND!

[DuMa]

Typical Kobe stans. only caring about the opinions that favors their goldenboy. Like i said, they live in their own little world, and then proceed to cry like clockwork when someone logically proves its wrong.

Form your own opinion on whose the best player. Don't let the media, players, coaches' opinion of who the best player is influence yours. If you want to believe Kobe is the best, thats fine. but don't whine like a ***** that someone else has a valid opinion about someone else being the best.

There is no undisputed best player in the NBA. There hasnt been one since MJ or Shaq.

[ginobli2311]

Again, In Kobe's early career he had shaq and a championship team.
Lebron had himself and no one else.

Its hard to compare two players where one was the only man on the team.
While the other had another player.



He's not. Look at the record books.
How many 50 point games do Lebron have?
How many 60?
How many 80?
How many records have he broken except for rebounding?

Just admit it, all Lebron can do is REBOUND! :confusedshrug:



Like i said You can't compare a guy who was #1 on his team to a guy who had another person.




The reason he's playoff scoring is low is because he played with Shaq, point blank!




No its not. Your the one who sounds like an idiot.
You factor in 7 years playoffs of a guy who was clearly not #1 on his team.
and you compare it with a guy who was the only #1 on his team.



You didn't own anybody.
Talk to me when Lebron scores 81, or 62 in three quarters.
Talk to me when he avg 45 in 1/2 months or 9 straight 40 point games.
Talk to me when he starts breaking scoring records like Jordan.

This is why Lebron will never be compared to Jordan, All he can do is but REBOUND!


moron. what are you smoking?

kobe is not as efficient as lebron and he scores almost 4 full points per game less than lebron in the playoffs for their careers. kobe's efficiency would have gone way down early in his career if he didn't have shaq.

so what about his high scoring games? he just took a ton of shots. he's never been an efficient scorer. again....in lebron's 3rd year he socred 31.4 points on 23.1 shots. a much better rate than kobe's 06 pace where he scored 35 a game.

so we should give kobe a ton of credit for simply taking more shots? what????????????

how do you explain leborn's superior efficiency even though he had less help around him? it does not make sense. it means that lebron is clearly the more efficient scorer. you can't argue this. its a FACT. do you know what a fact is?

lebron scores more points than kobe and is more efficient. FACT.

ahhaahhahahahahahhahahaha. you can't debate facts dude. hahahahahahahahhaahahahah.

[Bladers]

moron. what are you smoking?

kobe is not as efficient as lebron and he scores almost 4 full points per game less than lebron in the playoffs for their careers. kobe's efficiency would have gone way down early in his career if he didn't have shaq.



LMAO, HE HAD SHAQ and still scored 4 points below Lebron when Lebron had no one else. That tells me alot! If he didn't have Shaq he would have had +35!

Also Shaq is actually a liability for an offensive player like Kobe.
He blocks/clogs the paint with his body and defenders from penetration.
Everytime Shaq didn't play, Kobe had like 40+ points.
All his fifty point games early in his career came from when Shaq did not play.




so what about his high scoring games? he just took a ton of shots. he's never been an efficient scorer. again....in lebron's 3rd year he socred 31.4 points on 23.1 shots. a much better rate than kobe's 06 pace where he scored 35 a game.

so we should give kobe a ton of credit for simply taking more shots? what????????????



That proves my point that Lebron is not a scorer. POINT BLANK!
If Kobe was in the cavs those 7 years, his stats would look like the 05-06 season.

Lebron couldn't even score 30 on all those teams that Kobe went nuts with 50+ points.




how do you explain leborn's superior efficiency even though he had less help around him? it does not make sense. it means that lebron is clearly the more efficient scorer. you can't argue this. its a FACT. do you know what a fact is?


Dude is a known stats protector. That is a fact!
Kobe doesn't care about his FG%. Lebron does.


lebron scores more points than kobe and is more efficient. FACT.

ahhaahhahahahahahhahahaha. you can't debate facts dude. hahahahahahahahhaahahahah.

When has Lebron scored 50 with +70% efficiency? NEVER!
Only Kobe has!

[ginobli2311]

i can't even reply.

debating with kobe stans is pointless.

lebron is a better scorer and more efficient. its a ****ing FACT dude. when they take the same amount of shots lebron scores more points and scores more efficiently.

kobe has never had one season over 47% from the field.
lebron's career average is 47.5% from the field. LOL....and that number is only going to increase every year now. Lebron has shot over 48% in 4 of his last 5 years. in fact, lebron has only shot under 47% once in his career.....(his rookie year at age 19 as the best best player and leader of a team taking 19 shots a game)

LOL.

buh bye. owned again. i'd love to submit this arguments to an arbitrator so i could watch someone just laugh at your points and assertions. it would be priceless.

[Bladers]

i can't even reply.

debating with kobe stans is pointless.

lebron is a better scorer and more efficient. its a ****ing FACT dude. when they take the same amount of shots lebron scores more points and scores more efficiently.

kobe has never had one season over 47% from the field.
lebron's career average is 47.5% from the field. LOL....and that number is only going to increase every year now. Lebron has shot over 48% in 4 of his last 5 years. in fact, lebron has only shot under 47% once in his career.....(his rookie year at age 19 as the best best player and leader of a team taking 19 shots a game)

LOL.

buh bye. owned again. i'd love to submit this arguments to an arbitrator so i could watch someone just laugh at your points and assertions. it would be priceless.

Lebron's FG% was 47% (second year) when the dude had absolute no jumper. Was not in existence. Even his third year with 48.

That really tells me alot.
Lebron doesn't get his points from shots but from drive ins, phantom free-throws, dunks/layups.
All he does is bruteforce his way to the basket with his body. Then later everyyone looks at his stats and sees 47%/48% and says WOW!

[ginobli2311]

Lebron's FG% was 47 when the dude had absolute no jumper. Was not in existancs. Even his third year with 48.

That really tells me alot.
Lebron doesn't get his points from jumpers but from drive ins, dunks/layups.
All he does is bruteforce his way to the basket. Then later everyyone looks at his stats and sees 47%/48% and says WOW!

what the **** does it matter how someone scores? i don't care if you throw it in underhand.

more points and higher efficiency = better scorer.

there is nothing to debate dude. now you are resorting to hating on how lebron scores? wow.......it just gets better and better from the stans.

[brooks_thompson]

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be? age is a significant factor here.



yes. if i were a gm, who gives a shit about the age factor if you have a better chance to win titles immediately.

certainly you have to base most decisions on the business side of the league, but if an owner truly wants to win..

[ginobli2311]

oh and bladers.

answer the following please.

who was the better scorer over the last 2 years?

kobe or durant?

kobe or wade?

please answer both and say why. thanks.

[Bladers]

what the **** does it matter how someone scores? i don't care if you throw it in underhand.

more points and higher efficiency = better scorer.

there is nothing to debate dude. now you are resorting to hating on how lebron scores? wow.......it just gets better and better from the stans.

No its just a fact.
You said Lebron is a better Scorer than Kobe because of his FG%, so i pointed it out to you.

Just like Wilt's 100 pts which all came from mostly layups/dunks/freethrows.
The fact is his high percentage is not to the testament to the fact that he is good or a all around scorer (when he couldn't even shoot) but to the fact that he's an athletic freak and gets in the rack for freethrows/layups/dunks.

So people like you look at stats and see 48% and like WOW.
But all he did was bruteforce his way into the basket.
The dude COULDN'T EVEN SHOOT!

[Jacks3]

LeBron James Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 39.3%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 23.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 12.5%

Easily the most important question. Kobe was #1 every year between 05-09. Fact that he's still coming in at #2 in his 14th season is :bowdown:

[ginobli2311]

No its just a fact.
You said Lebron is a better Scorer than Kobe because of his FG%, so i pointed it out to you.

Just like Wilt's 100 pts which all came from mostly layups/dunks/freethrows.
The fact is his high percentage is not to the testament to the fact that he is good or a all around scorer (when he couldn't even shoot) but to the fact that he's an athletic freak and gets in the rack for freethrows/layups/dunks.

So people like you look at stats and see 48% and like WOW.
But all he did was bruteforce his way into the basket.
The dude COULDN'T EVEN SHOOT!

so you think kobe is better because he's a better mid range jump shooter?
so its all about shooting jumpers...that is what makes him better?

so you then agree that durant is a much better scorer than kobe has ever been? because durant is a far better shooter from all over including three point range.

and again. lebron scores more points than kobe at a better rate. i'd understand if leborn was scoring less than kobe at a higher rate. but the fact that he scores more and scores at a better rate makes this debate pointless.

so dirk is a better scorer than kobe? he takes almost all jumpers and shoots 47.3% from the field for his career and 38% from the three point line. dirk scores only 2.4 less points than kobe for his career and averages 2.4 less shots for his career. so certainly dirk is a better scorer if your criteria is jump shooting. kobe scores a lot more of his points through brute force than dirk does.

[Bladers]

oh and bladers.

answer the following please.

who was the better scorer over the last 2 years?

kobe or durant? (Durant) 27.5 > 26.8

kobe or wade? (Wade) 28 > 26.8

please answer both and say why. thanks.


WHY?

Durant: Your comparing a 21 year old to a soon to be 32 year old, He(Durant) also went nuts this year with his scoring though he did get alot of phantom calls.
Wade: He went nuts in 08-09! But his was more impressive

[RazorBaLade]

what the **** does it matter how someone scores? i don't care if you throw it in underhand.

more points and higher efficiency = better scorer.

there is nothing to debate dude. now you are resorting to hating on how lebron scores? wow.......it just gets better and better from the stans.

why are u completely ignoring fts?

[RazorBaLade]

oh and bladers.

answer the following please.

who was the better scorer over the last 2 years?

kobe or durant?

kobe or wade?

please answer both and say why. thanks.

if u take out kobes terrible games during back injury, kobe avg more w/ better %. Not fair to just compare stats there are also circumstances. Who else needs to eat on wades team? Durants? Kobe has gasol so of course he scores less than he would, doesnt make him a worse scorer

[ginobli2311]

why are u completely ignoring fts?

how so? lebron gets to the line more often....this getting the opposing team into foul trouble more often. kobe's edge in free throw percentage is negated by lebron's ability go get to the line more per game. lebron makes 6.7 free throws per game. kobe makes 6.4 free throws.

let me ask you guys a question.

do you think kobe is the best scorer ever?

if not. who is better and why?

[ginobli2311]

if u take out kobes terrible games during back injury, kobe avg more w/ better %. Not fair to just compare stats there are also circumstances. Who else needs to eat on wades team? Durants? Kobe has gasol so of course he scores less than he would, doesnt make him a worse scorer

what makes him a worse scorer is his efficiency levels. kobe needs more shots and possessions to score his points than wade or lebron or durant. its that simple.

[RazorBaLade]

Also i dont like these new june account kobe fans, ruining my mojo, we're done comparing Kobe to lebron. We finished. All the real fans just need to sit back and relax, the discussion is over, we won as long as Kobe and the Lakers keep winning end of story.

[Bladers]

if u take out kobes terrible games during back injury, kobe avg more w/ better %. Not fair to just compare stats there are also circumstances. Who else needs to eat on wades team? Durants? Kobe has gasol so of course he scores less than he would, doesnt make him a worse scorer

I was gonna say this but you beat me to it!:roll:

[RazorBaLade]

how so? lebron gets to the line more often....this getting the opposing team into foul trouble more often. kobe's edge in free throw percentage is negated by lebron's ability go get to the line more per game. lebron makes 6.7 free throws per game. kobe makes 6.4 free throws.

let me ask you guys a question.

do you think kobe is the best scorer ever?

if not. who is better and why?

My definition of best scorer is different than yours. I have Jordan, Wilt, Bird with Kobe right behind. I think the better scorer is the guy who any given night can do any given thing points wise, he can score 40, he can score 60, and the act of measuring what the odds are that he's going to do exactly that any given night. I understand that % is gonna go down with the more someone scores because just like anyone who plays nba games the hotter you are the more wild shots you are taking and the better you are the more you think that you're gonna start making shots again.. I don't mind a lower % by 2-4 points, plus he has to shoot a lot of bailout shots because we don't have any good shooters outside of fish when gasol is being bullied.


what makes him a worse scorer is his efficiency levels. kobe needs more shots and possessions to score his points than wade or lebron or durant. its that simple.

I don't think you should ignore fts though because if say durant shoots 10 more fts than kobe and scores 5 more pts than him, you can't go and prove that durants free throws are all legit and he was fouled and that just means he's a better scorer... Just like I can't literally prove that kobe gets more bailout shots than any other star in the NBA, we just both watch and I think in an evened out situation the edge goes to kobe.

[Bladers]

how so? lebron gets to the line more often....this getting the opposing team into foul trouble more often. kobe's edge in free throw percentage is negated by lebron's ability go get to the line more per game. lebron makes 6.7 free throws per game. kobe makes 6.4 free throws.

let me ask you guys a question.

do you think kobe is the best scorer ever?

if not. who is better and why?

It certainly not Lebron.


As RB said, He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Kobe.
Lebron is a great player but he is no where near Kobe. Lebron is mainly overrated because he grabs rebounds. But you NOTICE how no one is going nuts that Durant has MORE rebounds than Lebron!

[ginobli2311]

lets look at playoff offensive rating (points produced per 100 possessions)

kobe 110
lebron 114
jordan 118
bird 114
wade 109
magic 122
dr. j 110

now. you have to put those into context. for example....of course magic's is much better because he score less and took much better shots. but in general.....if a player scores more points, has a better fg%, and has a better offensive rating......that player is the better scorer.

its really not much of a debate.

[jjayfive]

the best player in the game today is up for debate.. you really can't go wrong with bron kobe or wade.. it's pretty impressive that kobe is still considered a top 3 player at the age of 32.. when it comes to just scoring and scoring in variety of ways, i feel kobe is the best offensive player in the game..

[Bladers]

lets look at playoff offensive rating (points produced per 100 possessions)

kobe 110
lebron 114
jordan 118
bird 114
wade 109
magic 122
dr. j 110

now. you have to put those into context. for example....of course magic's is much better because he score less and took much better shots. but in general.....if a player scores more points, has a better fg%, and has a better offensive rating......that player is the better scorer.

its really not much of a debate.

Again with the stupid stats which i don't even know where you got it from and how acurate it is...
They didn't have this back in the day? But who was the best scorer? Jordan!
Stop looking at stats and actually watch the game.

[ginobli2311]

My definition of best scorer is different than yours. I have Jordan, Wilt, Bird with Kobe right behind. I think the better scorer is the guy who any given night can do any given thing points wise, he can score 40, he can score 60, and the act of measuring what the odds are that he's going to do exactly that any given night. I understand that % is gonna go down with the more someone scores because just like anyone who plays nba games the hotter you are the more wild shots you are taking and the better you are the more you think that you're gonna start making shots again.. I don't mind a lower % by 2-4 points, plus he has to shoot a lot of bailout shots because we don't have any good shooters outside of fish when gasol is being bullied.



I don't think you should ignore fts though because if say durant shoots 10 more fts than kobe and scores 5 more pts than him, you can't go and prove that durants free throws are all legit and he was fouled and that just means he's a better scorer... Just like I can't literally prove that kobe gets more bailout shots than any other star in the NBA, we just both watch and I think in an evened out situation the edge goes to kobe.

all stars take bailout shots. not all stars take as many terrible shots as kobe though.

kobe produces less points per 100 possessions than most every other guy we are talking about here.

for example durant's offensive rating this year was 118. kobe has never had a season over 115. just like kobe has never had a season over 47% from the field.

as a scorer. kobe is just not in lebron's or jordan's or bird's league. and he will soon to be well behind durant as well.

more points, better efficiency, more points per 100 scoring possessions.

what more do you want?

[madmax]

lets look at playoff offensive rating (points produced per 100 possessions)

kobe 110
lebron 114
jordan 118
bird 114
wade 109
magic 122
dr. j 110

now. you have to put those into context. for example....of course magic's is much better because he score less and took much better shots. but in general.....if a player scores more points, has a better fg%, and has a better offensive rating......that player is the better scorer.

its really not much of a debate.
sometimes I wonder what these Kobe stans are even arguing about?:confusedshrug: If player scores more points on better efficiency levels while taking less shots, how is he not a better scorer? This is not a rocket science for christ sake - it's a simple game of basketball:hammerhead:

[RazorBaLade]

I'd like to throw something else out there, what do you guys think about this.

(These are approx) Kobe shoots 45%. He scores 30 points with 5 fts. Team outside of Gasol (we'll have Gasol as the constant, he always scores 20 points lets say) score 40 points.

Kobe shoots 50%. He scores 25 pts with 5 fts. So he attempts 2 less shots that would have missed in the previous situation. Team outside of Gasol scores 40 points, so in order for the same amount of points to be scored those 2 attempts would have to be made by other players.

In the first case we trust Kobe to take those 2 shots that give his team 90 points. In the second case we trust a combination of Lamar/Ron/Fisher/Bynum whoever to take those 2 shots. Now as a fan of the NBA for many years like most of us here are, who would you rather trust for those buckets?

[ginobli2311]

Again with the stupid stats which i don't even know where you got it from and how acurate it is...
They didn't have this back in the day? But who was the best scorer? Jordan!
Stop looking at stats and actually watch the game.

LOL

i do watch. and i see that lebron/wade/durant are clearly better overall scorers than kobe. and what do you know? all the numbers back me up.

so who is right? you? because you can't find anything to support your claim? LOL

owned again.

kobe is probably the most complete offensive player. but that is a completely different debate than who is the better scorer. maybe you don't understand that. i apologize if you think we are debating more complete. we are not. we are debating who the better scorer is. and its fairly clear that kobe is behind wade/lebron/durant.

[Bladers]

all stars take bailout shots. not all stars take as many terrible shots as kobe though.

Not bron bron...
We already pointed out and PROVED with STATS how he never takes half-court end of quarter shots. He first acts like he is going to take it and then waits for the buzzer then after the buzzer he throws it up.

Dude just loves to protect his stats.

[ginobli2311]

sometimes I wonder what these Kobe stans are even arguing about?:confusedshrug: If player scores more points on better efficiency levels while taking less shots, how is he not a better scorer? This is not a rocket science for christ sake - it's a simple game of basketball:hammerhead:

this times a million.

nothing else is up for debate. sorry. we are now being asked to ignore facts by kobe stans.

[RazorBaLade]

all stars take bailout shots. not all stars take as many terrible shots as kobe though.

kobe produces less points per 100 possessions than most every other guy we are talking about here.

for example durant's offensive rating this year was 118. kobe has never had a season over 115. just like kobe has never had a season over 47% from the field.

as a scorer. kobe is just not in lebron's or jordan's or bird's league. and he will soon to be well behind durant as well.

more points, better efficiency, more points per 100 scoring possessions.

what more do you want?

What do those stats have to say when it's down to 1 game and the best player on the team needs to score and be a scorer? Do you trust Kobe to pull off a 3rd quarter performance like vs Boston in game 4 more than you trust Lebron to do the same thing he did against Detroit?

I really don't need any stats to see that if there was one chance, Kobe can drop 50 on solid % more often than Lebron. And there's proof of that.

BUT with YOUR definition of best scoring, then yes I agree. I just view it differently. I don't look at the best rebounder in the league as someone who gets the most rebounds, I look at the best rebounder in the league as someone who will get the rebound when its needed, EVERY TIME.

[ginobli2311]

I'd like to throw something else out there, what do you guys think about this.

(These are approx) Kobe shoots 45%. He scores 30 points with 5 fts. Team outside of Gasol (we'll have Gasol as the constant, he always scores 20 points lets say) score 40 points.

Kobe shoots 50%. He scores 25 pts with 5 fts. So he attempts 2 less shots that would have missed in the previous situation. Team outside of Gasol scores 40 points, so in order for the same amount of points to be scored those 2 attempts would have to be made by other players.

In the first case we trust Kobe to take those 2 shots that give his team 90 points. In the second case we trust a combination of Lamar/Ron/Fisher/Bynum whoever to take those 2 shots. Now as a fan of the NBA for many years like most of us here are, who would you rather trust for those buckets?

your example is not apt at all. because we are comparing kobe to wade/lebron/durant. not gasol or any other lakers.

the fact remains that you want wade/lebron/durant taking those 2 shots over kobe because they are going to make more. its that simple.

[ginobli2311]

What do those stats have to say when it's down to 1 game and the best player on the team needs to score and be a scorer? Do you trust Kobe to pull off a 3rd quarter performance like vs Boston in game 4 more than you trust Lebron to do the same thing he did against Detroit?

I really don't need any stats to see that if there was one chance, Kobe can drop 50 on solid % more often than Lebron. And there's proof of that.

BUT with YOUR definition of best scoring, then yes I agree. I just view it differently. I don't look at the best rebounder in the league as someone who gets the most rebounds, I look at the best rebounder in the league as someone who will get the rebound when its needed, EVERY TIME.

no. what you are saying is that you think kobe is the most explosive scorer. and again......i don't agree. i guarantee that kobe shoots a much lower percentage in terms of 40 and 50 point games than lebron or jordan did.

kobe just takes a ton of shots way more often than these other players.

[RazorBaLade]

your example is not apt at all. because we are comparing kobe to wade/lebron/durant. not gasol or any other lakers.

the fact remains that you want wade/lebron/durant taking those 2 shots over kobe because they are going to make more. its that simple.

I'm not talking about that there I mean his % overall. Since each persons shooting % is taken from their respective team, that's what I mean. It's not for the other argument.

[RazorBaLade]

no. what you are saying is that you think kobe is the most explosive scorer. and again......i don't agree. i guarantee that kobe shoots a much lower percentage in terms of 40 and 50 point games than lebron or jordan did.

kobe just takes a ton of shots way more often than these other players.

Well all I can say to that is that I wish Wade and Lebron would shoot more, because I hate to see them losing while they have point totals under 25 or 30 and blame teammates when they can be scoring 35-40 at high %.

[Bladers]

LOL

i do watch. and i see that lebron/wade/durant are clearly better overall scorers than kobe. and what do you know? all the numbers back me up.

so who is right? you? because you can't find anything to support your claim? LOL

owned again.

kobe is probably the most complete offensive player. but that is a completely different debate than who is the better scorer. maybe you don't understand that. i apologize if you think we are debating more complete. we are not. we are debating who the better scorer is. and its fairly clear that kobe is behind wade/lebron/durant.

So who is the better scorer is based off FG%... :lol

[ginobli2311]

So who is the better scorer is based off FG%... :lol

not just fg%.

if a player scores more points per game and has a higher fg%....that player is simply the better scorer.

throw in offensive rating for good measure as well.

no....its not just fg%

[madmax]

Well all I can say to that is that I wish Wade and Lebron would shoot more, because I hate to see them losing while they have point totals under 25 or 30 and blame teammates when they can be scoring 35-40 at high %.
The reason why Wade and Lebron are not just jacking shots is because they have much higher BB IQ than Kobe - simple as that. Lebron has proved PLENTY of times before he can get hot offensively and bail out his team - the infamous Detroit 2007 series, plenty of regular season games. And he does that while shooting better FG% than Kobe too. These guys just know what is best for their respective teams and they act accordingly by making the right plays.

[momo]

It is the idea that you cant decision the champ maybe? Gotta knock him out. It is just my theory, but I think that is part of it.

You can say a zillion things about brawn being one of the sickest physical specimens, wade having a ring and still being prime, CP3 using the force to move objects with his mind, so on and so fourth, but KB has 5 rings, won the last one like a half a freeking hour ago, and it is hard to mess with that.

Same with Timmah! D. People have wanted to say he or the spurs are over for how long? I am still hesitant to write him off.

A guy being on the decline physically, but still able to get the job done and winning NOW is hard to unseat. GM's and geeks like us ishers might pick the new guy in a draft but still refer to the old guy as the besto in the L.

Think Jordan after, say, his 5th ring and freeking Shaq. Or Magic/Bird when Jordo had not won yet, but was clearly ascendant.


Or not... maybe it is just much easier to ID the torch being passed in hindsight.

[RazorBaLade]

The reason why Wade and Lebron are not just jacking shots is because they have much higher BB IQ than Kobe - simple as that. Lebron has proved PLENTY of times before he can get hot offensively and bail out his team - the infamous Detroit 2007 series, plenty of regular season games. And he does that while shooting better FG% than Kobe too. These guys just know what is best for their respective teams and they act accordingly by making the right plays.

Heh

[ginobli2311]

Heh

heh....at the idea that the loaded lakers need or want kobe jacking up 2 to 4 horrific shots per game.

[Scoooter]

I've been making the argument for a long time that Kobe doesn't have much of an in-game "basketball i.q.", i.e. he makes a lot of bad decisions; isn't great at getting himself open shots (which becomes increasingly important and apparent as his athleticism declines); and his game often seems out of sync or even occasionally at odds with the rest of the Lakers offense - of course, that might just be because he's such a focal point at times. I think the idea of his being such a cerebral player stems from his training and how often he obviously thinks about basketball when away from the game.

[Bladers]

not just fg%.

if a player scores more points per game and has a higher fg%....that player is simply the better scorer.

throw in offensive rating for good measure as well.

no....its not just fg%

Why does Kobe hold all the scoring records with better FG%?

Lebron has 8 50pts games, (By the way only two of them were +60%)
Kobe has 25! (I couldn't check them, will later, but one of them were +70%)

Lebron has 0 +60pts games,
Kobe has 5!

Kobe holds the record for most threes and most threes streak.
Kobe has more 40pts games.
Kobe has 9 straight 40pts games to Lebron's 2.
Kobe has 4 straight 50 pts games to Lebron's 0.
Kobe has a record of 55 pts in one half, Lebron has 35.

and we can go all and on...

[ginobli2311]

Why does Kobe hold all the scoring records with better FG%?

Lebron has 8 50pt games, (By the way only two of them were +60%)
Kobe has 25! (I couldn't check them, will later, but one of them were +70%)

Lebron has 0 +60pt games,
Kobe has 5!

Kobe holds the record for most threes and most threes streak.
Kobe has more 40pt game.
Kobe has 9 straight 40pt game to Lebron's 2.
Kobe has 4 50 pt game to Lebron's 0.
Kobe has 55 in one half, Lebron has 35.

and we can go all and on...


you know that lebron has only played half as much as kobe right?

you do also realize that i think kobe is a better streak scorer and more willing to take the amount of shots needed to score over 40/50/60 points.
i have no problem saying kobe is one of the best streak scorers ever.

but you know what. if someone came on here and said that iverson as a better scorer than kobe. the first ****ing thing you would talk about is fg% and efficiency levels.

that is why this debate is so dumb. based on your standards. iverson is a better scorer than kobe.

[RazorBaLade]

heh....at the idea that the loaded lakers need or want kobe jacking up 2 to 4 horrific shots per game.

Lol @ thinking that Lamar odom or Ron artest have a better shot at making them. Gasol shys away from that pressure at the end of the shot clock and anyone outside of fisher who isn't open 24/7 has half the chance of making it compared to kobe. There's your 2-4%

[ginobli2311]

Lol @ thinking that Lamar odom or Ron artest have a better shot at making them


did i ever say that? nope. try again.

[brooks_thompson]

admittedly, lebron and wade have the potential to match kobe. they haven't had the opportunity to capitalize on it in critical situations, other than wade in the '06 finals (which was a great performance but very dubious). it looks like going forward, only wade will have the chance to be considered in the same breath.

but who the hell can match duncan and shaq, the other players from that draft era? honestly. howard? no

durant is the closest thing to next generation tim duncan

[RazorBaLade]

did i ever say that? nope. try again.

Well you wouldn't have said what you posted if you read this:
I'd like to throw something else out there, what do you guys think about this.

(These are approx) Kobe shoots 45%. He scores 30 points with 5 fts. Team outside of Gasol (we'll have Gasol as the constant, he always scores 20 points lets say) score 40 points.

Kobe shoots 50%. He scores 25 pts with 5 fts. So he attempts 2 less shots that would have missed in the previous situation. Team outside of Gasol scores 40 points, so in order for the same amount of points to be scored those 2 attempts would have to be made by other players.

In the first case we trust Kobe to take those 2 shots that give his team 90 points. In the second case we trust a combination of Lamar/Ron/Fisher/Bynum whoever to take those 2 shots. Now as a fan of the NBA for many years like most of us here are, who would you rather trust for those buckets?

and believed that others on the lakers have a better chance of making them.

[ginobli2311]

Well you wouldn't have said what you posted if you read this:
I'd like to throw something else out there, what do you guys think about this.

(These are approx) Kobe shoots 45%. He scores 30 points with 5 fts. Team outside of Gasol (we'll have Gasol as the constant, he always scores 20 points lets say) score 40 points.

Kobe shoots 50%. He scores 25 pts with 5 fts. So he attempts 2 less shots that would have missed in the previous situation. Team outside of Gasol scores 40 points, so in order for the same amount of points to be scored those 2 attempts would have to be made by other players.

In the first case we trust Kobe to take those 2 shots that give his team 90 points. In the second case we trust a combination of Lamar/Ron/Fisher/Bynum whoever to take those 2 shots. Now as a fan of the NBA for many years like most of us here are, who would you rather trust for those buckets?

and believed that others on the lakers have a better chance of making them.

what is your point? that is true with eveyr superstar on every team. should lebron and wade and kobe take every single shot?

what is your point dude?

[RazorBaLade]

what is your point? that is true with eveyr superstar on every team. should lebron and wade and kobe take every single shot?

what is your point dude?

Holy crap. Wade and Bron both have much better shooters on their team, so does Durant. Lakers are built around Kobe shooting jumpshots and everyone rebounding/scoring inside, so at end shot clock situations (this happens enough in a regular season to make someones % go down by maybe even 5 points) Kobe has no choice but to shoot where as Lebron especially has the luxury of being surrounded with people who have a higher chance of making the shot... Thus making it smarter for him to pass more in those situations or thus his teammates not trying to be bailed out by him and just randomly giving it to him with 2 sec left, Kobe is smart for how his team is by shooting those shots. In the end Kobe's % suffers but it doesn't matter.... That is unless someone has been quiet since June and is now ready to begin grasping for straws again.

[Bladers]

you know that lebron has only played half as much as kobe right?

you do also realize that i think kobe is a better streak scorer and more willing to take the amount of shots needed to score over 40/50/60 points.
i have no problem saying kobe is one of the best streak scorers ever.

but you know what. if someone came on here and said that iverson as a better scorer than kobe. the first ****ing thing you would talk about is fg% and efficiency levels.

that is why this debate is so dumb. based on your standards. iverson is a better scorer than kobe.

No i won't.
Bring up Ivo's scoring resume and bring up Kobe's. Ivo doesn't stand a chance. We have to take into consideration the circumstances. Ivo also played alone in Philly just like Lebron. Kobe was playing with a Shaq in his prime in most of his career. If he didn't have Shaq he would have had about 35 more 50pt games. Making it 60. The years he spent with Shaq affected his potential GOAT stats. But recompensed it with 3 rings.

But everytime Shaq didn't play he scored 40+ points... all his 50pt games came without shaq plying. Only one came with him, that was against Jordan & the Wizards where he scored 45 in the first half.

Lebron in all his 7 years has never played with a player like Shaq and has been all alone and still have only 8. He's now about to play with Wade and Bosh, there is not way in hell he will be scoring 50.

[ginobli2311]

Holy crap. Wade and Bron both have much better shooters on their team, so does Durant. Lakers are built around Kobe shooting jumpshots and everyone rebounding/scoring inside, so at end shot clock situations (this happens enough in a regular season to make someones % go down by maybe even 5 points) Kobe has no choice but to shoot where as Lebron especially has the luxury of being surrounded with people who have a higher chance of making the shot... Thus making it smarter for him to pass more in those situations or thus his teammates not trying to be bailed out by him and just randomly giving it to him with 2 sec left, Kobe is smart for how his team is by shooting those shots. In the end Kobe's % suffers but it doesn't matter.... That is unless someone has been quiet since June and is now ready to begin grasping for straws again.

are you honestly going to blame kobe's lower efficiency levels on bailout shots? you talk about watching the games all the time. are you not watching when kobe dribbles around for 15 seconds and then launches up terrible jumpers time and time again year after year. do you actually watch lebron play more than just 10 times a year. Lebron always ends up with the ball in the closing seconds of quarters and with the shot clock running down.

at most. a bailout shot stat would impact a career fg% by .2%.....at most.

[ginobli2311]

No i won't.
Bring up Ivo's scoring resume and bring up Kobe's. Ivo doesn't stand a chance. We have to take into consideration the circumstances. Ivo also played alone in Philly just like Lebron. Kobe was playing with a Shaq in his prime in most of his career. If he didn't have Shaq he would have had about 35 more 50pt games. Making it 60. The years he spent with Shaq affected his potential GOAT stats. But recompensed it with 3 rings.

But everytime Shaq didn't play he scored 40+ points... all his 50pt games came without shaq plying. Only one came with him, that was against Jordan & the Wizards where he scored 45 in the first half.

Lebron in all his 7 years has never played with a player like Shaq and has been all alone and still have only 8. He's now about to play with Wade and Bosh, there is not way in hell he will be scoring 50.

so you think that the better scorer is simply the player with the most games over 40 points.

i disagree with that notion. i think the better scorer is the guy that night in night out is more consistent and the guy that scores more points more efficiently.

[RazorBaLade]

are you honestly going to blame kobe's lower efficiency levels on bailout shots? you talk about watching the games all the time. are you not watching when kobe dribbles around for 15 seconds and then launches up terrible jumpers time and time again year after year. do you actually watch lebron play more than just 10 times a year. Lebron always ends up with the ball in the closing seconds of quarters and with the shot clock running down.

at most. a bailout shot stat would impact a career fg% by .2%.....at most.

its actually the complete opposite but oh well. I just wish we got to see Lebron the best scorer in todays game beat Wade, Durant or Kobe instead of joining one of them. I mean with his incredible FG% and horrible teammates in Cle you figure he'd take 5 more shots a game that his horrible teammates would have missed and won more games but I totally see why he didn't.

[ginobli2311]

its actually the complete opposite but oh well. I just wish we got to see Lebron the best scorer in todays game beat Wade, Durant or Kobe instead of joining one of them. I mean with his incredible FG% and horrible teammates in Cle you figure he'd take 5 more shots a game that his horrible teammates would have missed and won more games but I totally see why he didn't.

what are you talking about. lebron shoots more than kobe. why are you so dense?

and as usual the casual fan only wants to talk about offense when it comes to judging a team. here's a hint dude......it was the defense of mo/jamison and the cavs in general the last 2 years that cost them.

rondo and kg destroyed them this year and rashard lewis/howard destroyed them last year.

[RazorBaLade]

what are you talking about. lebron shoots more than kobe. why are you so dense?

What does that have to do with anything I said? Shoot 5 MORE shots.

You freaking see a post and instantly go "HE'S PROBABLY MENTIONING KOBE, GET HIM!" in a robot voice I imagine. Can you tell me why Lebron with his horrible teammates but his amazing scoring ability doesn't shoot more shots a game?

Defense is great and all but all defense does is limit how many shots you make. If lebron passed to his crappy teammates 5 times and they all missed, but amazing scorer Lebron would have made 3/5 of those why doesn't he shoot more shots? It wouldn't mean they won every game, but every close game they lose by like under 5 pts should be able to be made up by scorer Lebron and crappy teammates.

3/4 of those players could have been guarded by Lebron by the way. Guess how many he guarded!

[ginobli2311]

What does that have to do with anything I said? Shoot 5 MORE shots.

You freaking see a post and instantly go "HE'S PROBABLY MENTIONING KOBE, GET HIM!" in a robot voice I imagine. Can you tell me why Lebron with his horrible teammates but his amazing scoring ability doesn't shoot more shots a game?

Defense is great and all but all defense does is limit how many shots you make. If lebron passed to his crappy teammates 5 times and they all missed, but amazing scorer Lebron would have made 3/5 of those why doesn't he shoot more shots? It wouldn't mean they won every game, but every close game they lose by like under 5 pts should be able to be made up by scorer Lebron and crappy teammates.

3/4 of those players could have been guarded by Lebron by the way. Guess how many he guarded!

he shoots over 21 times a game. and he is forced to pass a lot because of all the attention the other team's defense pays him. and he has very good three point shooters. forcing up more shots would be a detriment to his team. lebron takes what is there.

lol....we are debating kobe and lebron. excuse me for bringing it up.

and again.....lets solely focus on only half the game. the tell tale sign that you are not a student of the game and are only a casual fan.

[Bladers]

so you think that the better scorer is simply the player with the most games over 40 points.

i disagree with that notion. i think the better scorer is the guy that night in night out is more consistent and the guy that scores more points more efficiently.

The notion is BEST SCORER!

Scoring 30pts doesn't make you the best scorer.
especially with refs helping you out!

Durant: 756-840 Freethrows. (1,716 Points without fts, 21 pts)
Lebron: 593-773 Freethrows. (1,665 Points without fts, 22pts)
Wade: 534-702 Freethrows. (1,452 Points without fts, 18pts)
Kobe: 439-541 Freethrows. (1531 Points without fts, 21pts)

These people are not better scorer than a 32 year old Kobe, certainly looks good on paper. But when you look closer and you take away their fts, they are EXPOSED!

You say, why do this? Well this shows who the true scorers are. When most of your points come from the freethrows line, that tells us alot about the player.

[ginobli2311]

What does that have to do with anything I said? Shoot 5 MORE shots.

You freaking see a post and instantly go "HE'S PROBABLY MENTIONING KOBE, GET HIM!" in a robot voice I imagine. Can you tell me why Lebron with his horrible teammates but his amazing scoring ability doesn't shoot more shots a game?

Defense is great and all but all defense does is limit how many shots you make. If lebron passed to his crappy teammates 5 times and they all missed, but amazing scorer Lebron would have made 3/5 of those why doesn't he shoot more shots? It wouldn't mean they won every game, but every close game they lose by like under 5 pts should be able to be made up by scorer Lebron and crappy teammates.

3/4 of those players could have been guarded by Lebron by the way. Guess how many he guarded!

ahahahahhahahahaha.hahahahahahaa.

did you see what lebron did to pierce this year? the second they switched leborn off pierce....pierce got going.

lol dude. i'm done with you. lebron shuts down the other teams' best offensive player and you criticize him. bye bye kobe stan moron.

[ginobli2311]

The notion is BEST SCORER!

Scoring 30pts doesn't make you the best scorer.
especially with refs helping you out!

Durant: 756-840 Freethrows. (1,716 Points without fts, 21 pts)
Lebron: 593-773 Freethrows. (1,665 Points without fts, 22pts)
Wade: 534-702 Freethrows. (1,452 Points without fts, 18pts)
Kobe: 439-541 Freethrows. (1531 Points without fts, 21pts)

These people are not better scorer than a 32 year old Kobe, certainly looks good on paper. But when you look closer and you take away their fts, they are EXPOSED!

You say, why do this? Well this shows who the true scorers are. When most of your points come from the freethrows line, that tells us alot about the player.


i hope everyone here sees this post and others and realizes just how dumb they are. so we are now penalizing players for getting to the free throw line.

bye bye kobe stan moron.

[RazorBaLade]

he shoots over 21 times a game. and he is forced to pass a lot because of all the attention the other team's defense pays him. and he has very good three point shooters. forcing up more shots would be a detriment to his team. lebron takes what is there.

lol....we are debating kobe and lebron. excuse me for bringing it up.

and again.....lets solely focus on only half the game. the tell tale sign that you are not a student of the game and are only a casual fan.

forcing up just 2-5 more shots at a higher pct than anyone on his team that are crappy at offense and defense ANYWAYS would be a detriment to his team. Interesting.

You wanna talk about defense, tell me why Lebron didn't guard rondo, KG or rashard?

[RazorBaLade]

ahahahahhahahahaha.hahahahahahaa.

did you see what lebron did to pierce this year? the second they switched leborn off pierce....pierce got going.

lol dude. i'm done with you. lebron shuts down the other teams' best offensive player and you criticize him. bye bye kobe stan moron.

How did pierce play in the first and 3rd round when no one was shutting him down? About the same. WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT PIERCE? I criticize him for not shutting down the teams best player, pierce is not bostons best player. KG was the MVP of 08 and rondo was clearly better this years playoffs. One can even say KG was better than pierce this year in the finals, or at least make a small case for it.


i hope everyone here sees this post and others and realizes just how dumb they are. so we are now penalizing players for getting to the free throw line.

bye bye kobe stan moron.

The legitness of those freethrows can be debated though. He gets a lot of bullshit calls.

[ginobli2311]

forcing up just 2-5 more shots at a higher pct than anyone on his team that are crappy at offense and defense ANYWAYS would be a detriment to his team. Interesting.

You wanna talk about defense, tell me why Lebron didn't guard rondo, KG or rashard?

rondo? because pierce is a much better offensive player that plays his position. why would a small forward guard a point guard when the other teams small forward is the better offensive player?

owned.

the magic? there were too many problems to cover up for one player. rashard, hedo. howard.....how many players should one player guard for christ sake.

and lebron did a pretty damn good job guarding hedo. hedo did not have a good series at all.

[Bladers]

i hope everyone here sees this post and others and realizes just how dumb they are. so we are now penalizing players for getting to the free throw line.

bye bye kobe stan moron.

No one is penalizing players, It just shows how players actually get their points and how stupid alot of stats are. You say Lebron takes 21 shots, then add 773/2 fts. How many shot attempt does he actually take? But doesn't count as one because he was supposedly fouled?

and i proved to you that Kobe has more points per game than Durant if you subtract fts.
That shows you how durant gets his points and how Kobe gets his.

[RazorBaLade]

rondo? because pierce is a much better offensive player that plays his position. why would a small forward guard a point guard when the other teams small forward is the better offensive player?

owned.

the magic? there were too many problems to cover up for one player. rashard, hedo. howard.....how many players should one player guard for christ sake.

Pierce can make Pierce kill you, Rondo can make KG, the bench and Ray allen kill you. That's why you guard Rondo if you can. Lebron could have, it's so easy I mean all you gotta do is stay 5 ft off him right?!

Well Lebron didn't shut down either of those guys or even make force them to play below average. Hedo played good............

[ginobli2311]

Pierce can make Pierce kill you, Rondo can make KG, the bench and Ray allen kill you. That's why you guard Rondo if you can. Lebron could have, it's so easy I mean all you gotta do is stay 5 ft off him right?!

Well Lebron didn't shut down either of those guys or even make force them to play below average. Hedo played good............

do you not understand the concept of playing defense? lebron can shut down pierce. why would a small forward guard the other team's point guard. who is mo going to guard?????? you would have to bench mo in order to have lebron guard rondo. and even then you have pierce being able to go off because no other cavs player can hold him down at all.

hedo play good? hahahahahahahahaha

game 1 - 4 of 11 15 points
game 2 - 9 of 17 21 points
game 3 - 1 of 11 13 points
game 4 - 5 of 13 15 points
game 5(the game lebron spent his time guarding lewis) - 10 of 18 29 points
lewis in game 5 - 4 of 13 15 points
game 6 - 3 of 12 10 points


revisionist history is so much fun. lets blame lebron for everything. he only played great defense and scored nearly 40 a game.

ahahhahahahahahahhahahahaha. got to love it.

[RazorBaLade]

Stats stats stats that's where it's all at, stats stats stats that's where it's all at.

I won't be continuing this hilarious reassurance argument that has suddenly started with you and Lebron after he went to Miami is annoying and simply bringing Kobe down to a level he is above because a fan of his should not be arguing about lebron, the discussion is closed, but I will say this!

Lebron goes to the free throw line, gets other team in foul trouble, good O lebron.
Hedo goes to free throw line a lot, gets other team in foul trouble, good D lebron.
Say don't focus on 1 dimension of basketball yet only list scoring as the way to have a decent series, good ginobli.

I just wonder how Dwight Howard got all those looks, it couldn't have been from someone making plays and penetrating all series long. it couldn't have been. If it was it would have showed up in his point and fg%. FML

[ginobli2311]

Stats stats stats that's where it's all at, stats stats stats that's where it's all at.

I won't be continuing this hilarious reassurance argument that has suddenly started with you and Lebron after he went to Miami is annoying and simply bringing Kobe down to a level he is above because a fan of his should not be arguing about lebron, the discussion is closed, but I will say this!

Lebron goes to the free throw line, gets other team in foul trouble, good O lebron.
Hedo goes to free throw line a lot, gets other team in foul trouble, good D lebron.
Say don't focus on 1 dimension of basketball yet only list scoring as the way to have a decent series, good ginobli.

I just wonder how Dwight Howard got all those looks, it couldn't have been from someone making plays and penetrating all series long. it couldn't have been. If it was it would have showed up in his point and fg%. FML

did i ever say that any of that. nope. but it was obvious to anyone watching the lebron did a pretty good job guarding hedo. did i say he shut him down? nope.

the point was that you said lebron should have guarded lewis....and the problem with that was simply that hedo presented an even tougher matchtup for the cavs than lewis did.

howard was obviously the worst matchup in the series. are you going to pretend that lebron should have guarded him?

i already showed you why lebron had no business guarding rondo. but you continue to assert otherwise and it makes absolutely no basketball sense.

again. why would a small forward guard a pg when the other team's small forward is the best offensive player and the tougher matchup for his team? it makes no sense.

kobe stan ****ing ownedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[asdf1990]

No, lets keep it open.

When 90% of players, coaches, GMS and owners and HOF say Jordan is the goat,


its taken as gospel.

Now, explain to me why it works for one, and not the other?

cuz for jordan its a fact that 90% of the gms coaches etc.. say he is the GOAT, for kobe its just a number pulled out the ass, unless u can prove it.

[StacksOnDeck]

So still waiting for an answer? 7 pages of worthless blabber.

[ashbelly]

So still waiting for an answer? 7 pages of worthless blabber.


they gave the polls and kobe is not what you claim.. give it up.

[StacksOnDeck]

they gave the polls and kobe is not what you claim.. give it up.

Nowhere did the polls ask who is the best player.


WHO IS THE NBA'S MOST OVERRATED PLAYER?

Tracy McGrady, Rockets G/F 9%

Danny Granger, Pacers F 4%

LaMarcus Aldridge, Trail Blazers F 3%

Andre Iguodala, Sixers G/F 3%

LeBron James, Cavaliers F 3%

We gon act like if I don't youtube Lebron Kobe is the best player, I won't find 4 seperate videos?

You: Lebron is just being modest

Me: He has a Chosen-1 tat and witness tat on his body. He's not modest.

Yup...so I'm still waiting.

Lol @ saying Bron is the best player when he doesn't believe it himself.

[chopchop20]

It's his cold-blooded mentality, his work ethic... And really, I think it's his skill-set because to develop to the level that he has requires a tremendous amount of hard work and effort.

I'm sure guys like Bird and MJ look at that and see so many other guys in the NBA who've only achieved a fraction of their potentiality because they simple have not committed themselves to going the extra mile

Finally, he's the Mamba and just does things that impact winning over and over again going back to the days of Shaq

[The_Yearning]

The Return of Kobe.

Sorry Miami Heat, maybe next year.

[chopchop20]

did i ever say that any of that. nope. but it was obvious to anyone watching the lebron did a pretty good job guarding hedo. did i say he shut him down? nope.

the point was that you said lebron should have guarded lewis....and the problem with that was simply that hedo presented an even tougher matchtup for the cavs than lewis did.

howard was obviously the worst matchup in the series. are you going to pretend that lebron should have guarded him?

i already showed you why lebron had no business guarding rondo. but you continue to assert otherwise and it makes absolutely no basketball sense.

again. why would a small forward guard a pg when the other team's small forward is the best offensive player and the tougher matchup for his team? it makes no sense.

kobe stan ****ing ownedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

The 1 millionth defending LeBron... somewhere D Wade is proud :rolleyes:

[LA_Showtime]

LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. Kobe Bryant is the best winner. At this point, anyone would take LeBron James over Kobe Bryant.

[DTD]

In my opinion, LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. Kobe Bryant is the best winner. At this point, and purely in my opinion, some would take LeBron James over Kobe Bryant, and there are some that would not. So I am saying a whole lot of nothing.

fixed.

[zizozain]

physically
Bron > Kobe


mentally
Kobe >>>> Bron


now if we know that sports and winning Are 80 percent mental.
and in sports where hundredths of a second or tenths of an inch separate the champions from the mediocre athletes (eg basketball) it's 90% mental and only 10% physical.

when players, coaches, GM and owners and HOF compare players, first thing they look at is mental toughness.

ISH'ers look at stats. mvps. flashy dunks and never menetion ot compare mental toughness.

that is why Kobe >>>> Bron as ish'ers say (not even close)

[thejumpa]

Nowhere did the polls ask who is the best player.



We gon act like if I don't youtube Lebron Kobe is the best player, I won't find 4 seperate videos?

You: Lebron is just being modest

Me: He has a Chosen-1 tat and witness tat on his body. He's not modest.

Yup...so I'm still waiting.

Lol @ saying Bron is the best player when he doesn't believe it himself.

What exactly are you waiting for? I'm not reading 7 pages of kids going back and forth so you gotta fill me in on that.

LeBron is better because he can impact the game in more ways that Kobe can and is a more versatile than Kobe is. That's pretty much it. In terms of pure basketball skill, Kobe is superior. Footwork and shooting come to mind first. While he needs to get better, LeBron isn't bad himself and can still score as well as anyone in the league. He's a better finisher as well.

All that "killer instinct" shit that people say LeBron doesn't have makes no sense. I don't buy any of it. LeBron can take over a whole game and win it damn near by himself. Kobe has the ability to hit tough shots and game winners. I'd probably take Kobe for a game winner but that doesn't mean he's better.

As for LeBron saying Kobe is better, so what. Have you ever been around any NBA players? They are all arrogant and super super confident. The answer he gives an interviewer is going to be different than the one he gives me or you.

[creepingdeath]

LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. Kobe Bryant is the best winner. At this point, anyone would take LeBron James over Kobe Bryant.
:applause:
Wow, an honest LA fan. Kudos to you, buddy!

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

is this a Lebron/Kobe debate again?
if so, I'm guessing 100% of GMs would trade Kobe today for Lebron today.
due to age diff of course.

only time will tell if Lebron steps up.

[ashbelly]

LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. Kobe Bryant is the best winner. At this point, anyone would take LeBron James over Kobe Bryant.


Damn, it's rare to find your kind.. :applause: :applause:

[herosol]

No one is penalizing players, It just shows how players actually get their points and how stupid alot of stats are. You say Lebron takes 21 shots, then add 773/2 fts. How many shot attempt does he actually take? But doesn't count as one because he was supposedly fouled?

and i proved to you that Kobe has more points per game than Durant if you subtract fts.
That shows you how durant gets his points and how Kobe gets his.

this is under the assumption that there are no such thing as drawing fouls? really?

First of all Kobe is a Shooting Guard. Durant is a Small Forward. Lebron is a Small/Power forward.

Do you know what Small Forwards do? Even with Durant's skinnyness, they are forced to play the inside, because the other guards need to play perimeter as well, so he's bound to take some shots at the high post, and get fouled. NBA Players are huge! Any contact is foul.

Lebron a bigger case! This guy just simply wants to bull rush the hole, because 1) His Size 2) Players of his size create offense through strength and aggresivity.

Now granted Kobe drives the hole, but realistically hes a shooting guard, therefore will look for shots outside the perimeter at around the 18ft to the 3pt line.

Stats are useful to a certain extent, at this level it loses its "plainess" simply because these 3 players have 3 different roles...

[LA KB24]

No, lets keep it open.

When 90% of players, coaches, GMS and owners and HOF say Jordan is the goat,


its taken as gospel.

Now, explain to me why it works for one, and not the other?
Because Jordan was the clear cut consensus as the best player in the league for his entire career. Can't say the same about Kobe...

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Because Jordan was the clear cut consensus as the best player in the league for his entire career. Can't say the same about Kobe...

no, MJ was not the "clear cut best" for his entire career.
Magic, Bird, even Isaiah
hell, even Kareem was still pretty damn good during MJ's rookie year.

[824]

If I had the best team in the league I would pick Kobe to lead it over LeBron, and that is why people consider Kobe > LeBron. Individually, I can give the nod to LeBron now, but all that is good for is having retards on here *********e to your stats and shit.

[LA KB24]

The reason why Wade and Lebron are not just jacking shots is because they have much higher BB IQ than Kobe - simple as that. Lebron has proved PLENTY of times before he can get hot offensively and bail out his team - the infamous Detroit 2007 series, plenty of regular season games. And he does that while shooting better FG% than Kobe too. These guys just know what is best for their respective teams and they act accordingly by making the right plays.
:roll::roll::roll:

[hawke812]

I think comparing stats between different players in different positions in different systems is silly. There are so many variables to consider it makes the whole argument moot.

Lebron is a great player and all, but he has a huge flaw, which is why he is getting so much :lol >HEAT<:lol

Kobe rises and falls with his team. A true leader in every sense.

Lebron has never gone down with his team. He is a true loser.

[Simple Jack]

:roll: at the notion that Kobe is a better scorer than LeBron "and it's not even close"

He may be more well rounded, but that doesn't make him better.

Just for reference:

Kobe took 1569 Field Goal Attempts and scored 1970 points

LeBron took 1528 Field Goal Attempts and scored 2258 points.


So 41 less field goals, and 288 more points for LeBron.
:no:

[Simple Jack]

I think comparing stats between different players in different positions in different systems is silly. There are so many variables to consider it makes the whole argument moot.

Lebron is a great player and all, but he has a huge flaw, which is why he is getting so much :lol >HEAT<:lol

Kobe rises and falls with his team. A true leader in every sense.

Lebron has never gone down with his team. He is a true loser.

Kobe wasn't in a similar system in 05-06?

What exactly is "going down" with your team? Is it publicly throwing them under the bus and telling the media that a player needs to be traded?

[chopchop20]

Kobe wasn't in a similar system in 05-06?

What exactly is "going down" with your team? Is it publicly throwing them under the bus and telling the media that a player needs to be traded?

He's still in LA with 2 additional rings. Kobe's beef was with management and them not holding up to their end of the deal to bring in new talent. It was always about WINNING with Kobe... no free agent tours, no special privileges for his entourage, no self-indulgent TV specials.

AND, Kobe NEVER took cheap shots at other players who were winning at the time -- never said that "I could win too if I had teammates like him"

[3zazer1]

ISH are full of amateurs who just started watching NBA recently.

Kobe is simply the best right now, name a current player who tops his legacy?
None.

I agree. Lebron dosn't have the sheer skill and work ethic that the black mamba has.

[Simple Jack]

He's still in LA with 2 additional rings. Kobe's beef was with management and them not holding up to their end of the deal to bring in new talent. It was always about WINNING with Kobe... no free agent tours, no special privileges for his entourage, no self-indulgent TV specials.

AND, Kobe NEVER took cheap shots at other players who were winning at the time -- never said that "I could win too if I had teammates like him"

Drafting Bynum wasn't a good move on management's part? He said to "ship his ass out". I understand his intention was winning but that's not exactly what I consider "going down" with your teammates.

[Simple Jack]

Who's better? Pau Gasol or Dwight Howard?

[3zazer1]

Kobe wasn't in a similar system in 05-06?

What exactly is "going down" with your team? Is it publicly throwing them under the bus and telling the media that a player needs to be traded?

Thats what I call forcing the front office to build a team around you to win multiple championships
so once again.....
Dwade<Lebron<<<Kobe

[Simple Jack]

Thats what I call forcing the front office to build a team around you to win multiple championships
so once again.....
Dwade<Lebron<<<Kobe

Kobe is the GOAT GM now too.

[3zazer1]

Who's better? Pau Gasol or Dwight Howard?
Gasol: He's a pg in a pf/center's body.He is so skilled to be a big man and gets heavy comparisons to Bob Macadoo.
Howard is just a big, muscular power slug with no game whatsoever. He can only play d (which isn't bad) but being depicted as a star, he needs to grow a offensive game.

[LA KB24]

Gasol: He's a pg in a pf/center's body.He is so skilled to be a big man and gets heavy comparisons to Bob Macadoo.
Howard is just a big, muscular power slug with no game whatsoever. He can only play d (which isn't bad) but being depicted as a star, he needs to grow a offensive game. I agree that Gasol is better as of right now.

I actually think he has improved his post game. He just needs to keep working on that with Hakeem instead of making sh1tty movies with that fat whore Latifa.

[Anaximandro1]

Why is that 90% of players, coaches, GM and owners and HOF think Kobe is the best

:violin:

Kobe stans are delusional.

GM Survey:2004-2005

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Tim Duncan, San Antonio 47.6%
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 28.6%
LeBron James, Cleveland 14.3%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 9.5

http://www.nba.com/preview2004/gmsurvey_championship.html

GM Survey:2005-2006

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Tim Duncan, San Antonio 40.0%
LeBron James, Cleveland 36.0%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 8.0%
Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 8.0%

http://www.nba.com/preview2005/gmsurvey_players.html


GM Survey:2006-2007

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%
Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html


GM Survey:2007-2008

you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

1. LeBron James, Cleveland 59.3%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 25.9%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 11.1%
Tim Duncan, San Antonio 11.1%
5. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

GM Survey:2008-2009

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

1. LeBron James -- 66.7%
2. Kobe Bryant -- 18.5%
3. Dwight Howard -- 11.1%
4. Chris Paul - 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.players/index.html

GM Survey:2009-2010

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%

http://www.nba.com/news/features/gmsurvey.players/index.html

Are we gonna act like Pau didn't just save Kobe's career?

[gts]

That shit was retarded :hammerhead:
no kidding that's the single worst piece of faux journalism ever.... that clown who wrote that tried to post it on real gm and the matrix/math guys blew it up in about two pages... guy left signed off in a blubbering pile of jello

[Bladers]

:roll: at the notion that Kobe is a better scorer than LeBron "and it's not even close"

He may be more well rounded, but that doesn't make him better.

Just for reference:

Kobe took 1569 Field Goal Attempts and scored 1970 points

LeBron took 1528 Field Goal Attempts and scored 2258 points.


So 41 less field goals, and 288 more points for LeBron.
:no:

Your a fool.

Lebron: 593-773 Freethrows. (1,665 Points without fts, 22pts)
Kobe: 439-541 Freethrows. (1531 Points without fts, 21pts)

Most of Lebron's points comes from free-throws and the refs giving him phantom calls.

and remember your comparing a 32 year old Kobe (pro 13) to a 25 year old lebron! (pro 7) :lol

[chopchop20]

Drafting Bynum wasn't a good move on management's part? He said to "ship his ass out". I understand his intention was winning but that's not exactly what I consider "going down" with your teammates.

Newsflash... Bynum has yet to fully deliver on his potential. He's gotten a lot better but he's still somewhat inconsistent and far too injury-prone.

As far as "going down" with your teammates, LeBron didn't even contact them to let them know his decision. During the "Decision" he repeatedly referred to what "I've done for Cleveland". I'm not sure if he actually ever said what "we've done" as a team.

And it's totally embarrassing for D Wade to be defending Lebron by saying that his teammates didn't step up. Basically, LeBron only looked bad because of his teammates. That's beyond throwing people under the bus IMO.

[Bladers]

:violin:

Kobe stans are delusional.

GM Survey:2004-2005

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Tim Duncan, San Antonio 47.6%
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 28.6%
LeBron James, Cleveland 14.3%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 9.5

http://www.nba.com/preview2004/gmsurvey_championship.html

GM Survey:2005-2006

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Tim Duncan, San Antonio 40.0%
LeBron James, Cleveland 36.0%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 8.0%
Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 8.0%

http://www.nba.com/preview2005/gmsurvey_players.html


GM Survey:2006-2007

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%
Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html


GM Survey:2007-2008

you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

1. LeBron James, Cleveland 59.3%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 25.9%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 11.1%
Tim Duncan, San Antonio 11.1%
5. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

GM Survey:2008-2009

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

1. LeBron James -- 66.7%
2. Kobe Bryant -- 18.5%
3. Dwight Howard -- 11.1%
4. Chris Paul - 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.players/index.html

GM Survey:2009-2010

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%

http://www.nba.com/news/features/gmsurvey.players/index.html

Are we gonna act like Pau didn't just save Kobe's career?


Are you dumb? This isn't a question of if you were starting a franchise.
This is a question of who is better and all GM's say Kobe.

But who want's to start a franchise with a 32 year old player????

GTFO!!! OWNED!

[DixieNourmous]

:violin:

Kobe stans are delusional.

GM Survey:2004-2005

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Tim Duncan, San Antonio 47.6%
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 28.6%
LeBron James, Cleveland 14.3%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 9.5

http://www.nba.com/preview2004/gmsurvey_championship.html

GM Survey:2005-2006

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Tim Duncan, San Antonio 40.0%
LeBron James, Cleveland 36.0%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 8.0%
Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 8.0%

http://www.nba.com/preview2005/gmsurvey_players.html


GM Survey:2006-2007

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%
Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html


GM Survey:2007-2008

you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

1. LeBron James, Cleveland 59.3%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 25.9%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 11.1%
Tim Duncan, San Antonio 11.1%
5. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

GM Survey:2008-2009

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

1. LeBron James -- 66.7%
2. Kobe Bryant -- 18.5%
3. Dwight Howard -- 11.1%
4. Chris Paul - 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.players/index.html

GM Survey:2009-2010

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%

http://www.nba.com/news/features/gmsurvey.players/index.html




I suppose all these GM`s would look back on their votes and be ashamed at how far off they were. :roll:

Keep in mind,, none of these GM`s (except one) was successful the last 2 years.


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2772/kobewin.gif

[Doranku]

:violin:

Kobe stans are delusional.

GM Survey:2004-2005

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Tim Duncan, San Antonio 47.6%
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 28.6%
LeBron James, Cleveland 14.3%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 9.5

http://www.nba.com/preview2004/gmsurvey_championship.html

GM Survey:2005-2006

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Tim Duncan, San Antonio 40.0%
LeBron James, Cleveland 36.0%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 8.0%
Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 8.0%

http://www.nba.com/preview2005/gmsurvey_players.html


GM Survey:2006-2007

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%
Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_players.html


GM Survey:2007-2008

you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

1. LeBron James, Cleveland 59.3%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 25.9%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 11.1%
Tim Duncan, San Antonio 11.1%
5. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

GM Survey:2008-2009

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

1. LeBron James -- 66.7%
2. Kobe Bryant -- 18.5%
3. Dwight Howard -- 11.1%
4. Chris Paul - 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.players/index.html

GM Survey:2009-2010

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%

http://www.nba.com/news/features/gmsurvey.players/index.html

Are we gonna act like Pau didn't just save Kobe's career?

Very credible.

Who will win the 2005-06 MVP?
Tim Duncan, San Antonio

58.3%
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami

16.7%
Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers, Kevin Garnett, Minnesota, Tracy McGrady, Houston, Jermaine O'Neal, Indiana, Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix, Dwyane Wade, Miami

Funny that the actual MVP that year didn't even receive ONE vote from these intelligent GMs. :oldlol:

[chopchop20]

This: http://www.youtube.com/user/lakersrule24?blend=1&ob=4

And This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U616sib8v-Y

[Leviathon1121]

So basically, when GM's vote for Kobe, we get "Told you so threads."

When they do not support Kobe, GM's become idiots who's opinions are worth nothing.

Laker fans :roll:

[RazorBaLade]

So basically, when GM's vote for Kobe, we get "Told you so threads."

When they do not support Kobe, GM's become idiots who's opinions are worth nothing.

Laker fans :roll:

Show me some threads where this has happened and Laker fans have said GM's are idiots.

[AK47DR91]

I agree that Gasol is better as of right now.

I actually think he has improved his post game. He just needs to keep working on that with Hakeem instead of making sh1tty movies with that fat whore Latifa.

Don't diss the Queen like that! She's actually a very good actress and her romantic comedies are better than most in recent years.

[Calabis]

Lebron's FG% was 47% (second year) when the dude had absolute no jumper. Was not in existence. Even his third year with 48.

That really tells me alot.
Lebron doesn't get his points from shots but from drive ins, phantom free-throws, dunks/layups.
All he does is bruteforce his way to the basket with his body. Then later everyyone looks at his stats and sees 47%/48% and says WOW!



According to Kobe's shot chart, he scored:

460 pts on layups & dunks
572 pts inside 10 ft
862 pts inside of 15 ft
439 pts from the FT line

Only 669 pts from him were actually scored from15+ ft!! 1,301 of his pts have come INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line!! 66% (2/3 of his pts) came inside of 15 ft & the FT line!!

[Leviathon1121]

Show me some threads where this has happened and Laker fans have said GM's are idiots.

Read two posts above my original one...

[7_cody]

Jesus christ. Only on ISH can one say, ppgA > ppgB, and fgA > fgB, therefore playerA > playerB.

F*ck. you're all so f888cking retarded.

There are a million external factors and other elements to take into consideration.

-------------

You idiots want proof that the majority of the professionals working in the NBA (players, coaches, GM's, analysists, etc) think that Kobe is the best in the game?

Don't believe the hype or manipulated and distorted numbers, just listen to these guys:

In June ,2010, Michael Jordan (still) thinks that Kobe is the best in the game. Said so at his Basketball camp.

[chopchop20]

[QUOTE=7_cody]Jesus christ. Only on ISH can one say, ppgA > ppgB, and fgA > fgB, therefore playerA > playerB.

F*ck. you're all so f888cking retarded.

There are a million external factors and other elements to take into consideration.

-------------

You idiots want proof that the majority of the professionals working in the NBA (players, coaches, GM's, analysists, etc) think that Kobe is the best in the game?

Don't believe the hype or manipulated and distorted numbers, just listen to these guys:

In June ,2010, Michael Jordan (still) thinks that Kobe is the best in the game. Said so at his Basketball camp.

[Micku]

People are too fickle.

Ppl believed LBJ was the best before the playoffs. Then after the Celtics beat the Cavs, then it went back to Kobe. Meh.

[LA KB24]

[quote=7_cody]Jesus christ. Only on ISH can one say, ppgA > ppgB, and fgA > fgB, therefore playerA > playerB.

F*ck. you're all so f888cking retarded.

There are a million external factors and other elements to take into consideration.

-------------

You idiots want proof that the majority of the professionals working in the NBA (players, coaches, GM's, analysists, etc) think that Kobe is the best in the game?

Don't believe the hype or manipulated and distorted numbers, just listen to these guys:

In June ,2010, Michael Jordan (still) thinks that Kobe is the best in the game. Said so at his Basketball camp.

[7_cody]

Who better than Kobe? Exactly, there's a reason why EVERY single NBA player Coach (literally) always mention Kobe as the best, not LeBron. How Amar'e acted in that video is how most players today act in regards to Kobe.

[7_cody]

BTW, Ginobili > Mike Kryzewski, Alvin Gentry, the Sports Nation expert panel of over 197 (I think it was?) coaches, players, etc voting, John Wooden (LOL MOST OF YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS RITE??), Michael Jordan, Gregg Popovich and a million other similar NBA players and coaches, all because FG A & B > FG C, and PPG A & B > PPG C

Damn, all these Coaches must be louzy if they don't even know who the most dangerous player in the NBA is.

And Ginobili should be getting paid millions for his incredible stat copying and pasting skills... I mean, uhhh, insightful basketball knowledge

[SinJackal]

ISH are full of amateurs who just started watching NBA recently.

Kobe is simply the best right now, name a current player who tops his legacy?
None.

Tim Duncan and Shaq? Don't discount everyone in the league because you really like Kobe.

Just to note: Tim Duncan has more MVPS, more finals MVPs, twice as many rings as "best player on team" as Kobe. He also has a better regular season record for his career, has been a top notch defender his whole career, and is considered the best player ever at his position.

Tim Duncan, at least before last year's finals, was considered higher on the top 50 best players ever list than Kobe. So was Shaq. They haven't updated the list to my knowledge since Kobe won the last finals, so I'm not sure if he's above either. Might be though.

Before you, or anyone like rants over this post. . .I'm obviously not Kobe bashing. Those are just facts. Kobe's easily better than Shaq now, and even though I really like TD, he's better than TD right now too. But legacy wise? Kobe's not above either. He's just better right now due to the advanced age of the two big men.

[7_cody]

Tim Duncan and Shaq? Don't discount everyone in the league because you really like Kobe.

Just to note: Tim Duncan has more MVPS, more finals MVPs, twice as many rings as "best player on team" as Kobe. He also has a better regular season record for his career, has been a top notch defender his whole career, and is considered the best player ever at his position.

Tim Duncan, at least before last year's finals, was considered higher on the top 50 best players ever list than Kobe. So was Shaq. They haven't updated the list to my knowledge since Kobe won the last finals, so I'm not sure if he's above either. Might be though.

Before you, or anyone like rants over this post. . .I'm obviously not Kobe bashing. Those are just facts. Kobe's easily better than Shaq now, and even though I really like TD, he's better than TD right now too. But legacy wise? Kobe's not above either. He's just better right now due to the advanced age of the two big men.

I would agree with everything you said before Kobe won his fifth ring, of course, speaking in terms of his legacy (accomplishments, etc)

[whoartthou]

who cares who is the best in the game. As long as teams continue to compete and we have epic finals and playoffs (To a much a lesser extent :( ) i will continue watching. :rockon:

[StacksOnDeck]

90% of the NBA and including the "GOAT" that you guys worship until he says Kobe is better than Lebron.

Still no answer from you idiots...

You think you're more knowledgable than past players and the GOAT?

[The GM]

Lebron was "the next hottest thing" at the moment and that has all passed. Just look when he came into the league the likes of Duncan, Wade, Kobe all started to get pushed to the back burned not because their games fell off but due to the likes of the ESPN & Nike hype train brain washing fools. Ever since Lebron came into the league Kobe has been better then him and still is but people over looked that because Lebron had more endorsements and Kobe doesn't like to be in the lime light like Lebron does, so therefore his face is more recognizable. "The Decision" is one of the best things that has ever happened to the NBA because now instead of this 24/7 LBJ coverage it will allow the casual NBA fan to see other great players like the Durant's, Carmelo's & Dwight Howard's of the world in action and people can truly see that the NBA isn't just a Lebron driven league. Kobe is, has been and will continue to be better then Lebron at least for the next 3 maybe 4 years and then when Kobe starts to decline it's not even a given that LBJ will be the best player because by then Durant would have developed and hopefully Dwight would have learned some post moves to make him that all around dominate player that everyone has been waiting to see, so LBJ will have some serious competition to hold that title. Lebron has to become more mature and figure out whats more important to him (money/global icon status or basketball) if he ever wants to reach an all-time great status.

[7_cody]

I still remember when people that TMac was better than Kobe.

[godofgods]

Those people were forced by David Stern to say so.

[Calabis]

LMAO!!! I love how the Kobe brigade is using former players/gm's/current players as validation to why Kobe is the best in the league, yet if this was a Jordan vs Kobe "who is Goat" thread, those same validations made by former players/current players/gm's/Kobe himself... that Jordan is GOAT, would be discounted and players like Barkley, would just be called "haters".....can't have it both ways....although imo Kobe is best player of his generation and best right now

[LMFAO]

Last GM survey

Who will win the 2009-10 MVP?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 69.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 17.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 6.9%
Also receiving votes:
Tim Duncan, San Antonio; Dwyane Wade, Miami
- Last year: LeBron James 55.6%







LeBron James If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%
- Last year: LeBron James 66.7%







LeBron James Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 39.3%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 23.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 12.5%
Also receiving votes:
Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers; Shaquille O'Neal, Cleveland; Dwyane Wade, Miami


I dont know that that same group wouldnt say Lebron was the best player if they just flat out asked them. At least 3 GMs voting didnt think Kobe was the best 2 and he got no votes at all for best 3...so there are several GMs who think Kobe isnt even the best at his position. Forget the league.

Besides the hit or miss results of the draft alone should show that coaches and GMs(mostly former players) arent always the best evaluators of talent.

Michael Jordan can look at Kwame and Gasol and decide Kwame should be the #1 pick. But greatness at basketball makes you know talent?

*well aware that none of that is new information*
This

[ginobli2311]

I still remember when people that TMac was better than Kobe.

from the 01 season through the 05 season TMac was just as good as kobe. nobody can predict the future dude. at the time.....the people who said that were dead on.

you seem to get way too caught up in all time rankings and careers. those are things that should not really be fully addressed until a player's career is over. at the time people were talking about TMac.....he deserved to be in the same group as kobe. TMac proved that with his play between 01 and 05.

just like wade/lebron/kobe are all in the same group over the last 6 years. ultimately we will judge their careers. but for now all we can do is analyze the past and present.

open up your mind a bit dude.

[7_cody]

from the 01 season through the 05 season TMac was just as good as kobe. nobody can predict the future dude. at the time.....the people who said that were dead on.

you seem to get way too caught up in all time rankings and careers. those are things that should not really be fully addressed until a player's career is over. at the time people were talking about TMac.....he deserved to be in the same group as kobe. TMac proved that with his play between 01 and 05.

just like wade/lebron/kobe are all in the same group over the last 6 years. ultimately we will judge their careers. but for now all we can do is analyze the past and present.

open up your mind a bit dude.

Lol, you completely missed the point.

[Simple Jack]

90% of the NBA and including the "GOAT" that you guys worship until he says Kobe is better than Lebron.

Still no answer from you idiots...

You think you're more knowledgable than past players and the GOAT?


So how do you explain any past players or coaches saying LeBron is the best player? I mean, you can't just dismiss them considering their opinion is more knowledgeable than you, right?

What was failed to mention in this thread is that plenty of people who argue Kobe point to his rings. They can't seem to grasp the concept that rings are not a good indicator of who is CURRENTLY a better player; but rather a great indicator of who has a better career.

I can find plenty of "knowledgeable people" who have said "well Kobe's got the rings" when being asked to distinguish who the best CURRENT player is.

Logic, do you use it?

[7_cody]

So how do you explain any past players or coaches saying LeBron is the best player? I mean, you can't just dismiss them considering their opinion is more knowledgeable than you, right?

What was failed to mention in this thread is that plenty of people who argue Kobe point to his rings. They can't seem to grasp the concept that rings are not a good indicator of who is CURRENTLY a better player; but rather a great indicator of who has a better career.

I can find plenty of "knowledgeable people" who have said "well Kobe's got the rings" when being asked to distinguish who the best CURRENT player is.

Logic, do you use it?

It's not the same with LeBron. It's called the "majority" think that Kobe is the best, for a reason, and they do. I think a few have switched over to LeBron last season, like Jerry West and Charles Barkely (uhh, he doesn't even count, but whatever). But they have since then quickly switched back to Kobe.

Watch the youtube video of Amar'e. That's how 90% of the NBA players regard Kobe. It's just not the same with LeBron. He is not considered the clear-cut most dangerous player in the league by his peers (i.e., the MAJORITY).

[Simple Jack]

Gasol: He's a pg in a pf/center's body.He is so skilled to be a big man and gets heavy comparisons to Bob Macadoo.
Howard is just a big, muscular power slug with no game whatsoever. He can only play d (which isn't bad) but being depicted as a star, he needs to grow a offensive game.

He averaged 1 less point than Gasol on 61% FG. Gasol's offensive game might be more well rounded but Dwight clearly uses his athleticism beneficially.

Skill doesn't mean someone is better than another. As much as you may not want to admit it, athleticism is a huge part of basketball.

Do you honestly believe Gasol is more dominant/impacts a game as much as Dwight Howard? He may be more skilled, but he's not as good as Dwight.

[Simple Jack]

Your a fool.

Lebron: 593-773 Freethrows. (1,665 Points without fts, 22pts)
Kobe: 439-541 Freethrows. (1531 Points without fts, 21pts)

Most of Lebron's points comes from free-throws and the refs giving him phantom calls.

and remember your comparing a 32 year old Kobe (pro 13) to a 25 year old lebron! (pro 7) :lol


LeBron takes 3 more ft's a game than Kobe.

You've mentioned how LeBron's game is more "in the paint" and "slashing" than Kobe's "jumpshot and perimeter" approach, no? It doesn't make sense to you that LeBron's 3 free throw difference over Kobe comes from him constantly driving and playing a more physical game? It's that far fetched to believe that on average LeBron gets fouled 1.5 times more than Kobe per game?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Simple Jack]

It's not the same with LeBron. It's called the "majority" think that Kobe is the best, for a reason, and they do. I think a few have switched over to LeBron last season, like Jerry West and Charles Barkely (uhh, he doesn't even count, but whatever). But they have since then quickly switched back to Kobe.

Watch the youtube video of Amar'e. That's how 90% of the NBA players regard Kobe. It's just not the same with LeBron. He is not considered the clear-cut most dangerous player in the league by his peers (i.e., the MAJORITY).


And again, I've seen quotes from A LOT of players mentioning "rings" as the reason why they'd take Kobe over LeBron. It's illogical and irrelevant to the "who is better now" conversation. If they were to ask who has had the better career thus far, Kobe and his rings would be relevant, but that's clearly not the question.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Last GM survey

Who will win the 2009-10 MVP?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 69.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 17.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 6.9%
Also receiving votes:
Tim Duncan, San Antonio; Dwyane Wade, Miami
- Last year: LeBron James 55.6%







LeBron James If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%
- Last year: LeBron James 66.7%







LeBron James Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 39.3%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 23.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 12.5%
Also receiving votes:
Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers; Shaquille O'Neal, Cleveland; Dwyane Wade, Miami


I dont know that that same group wouldnt say Lebron was the best player if they just flat out asked them. At least 3 GMs voting didnt think Kobe was the best 2 and he got no votes at all for best 3...so there are several GMs who think Kobe isnt even the best at his position. Forget the league.

Besides the hit or miss results of the draft alone should show that coaches and GMs(mostly former players) arent always the best evaluators of talent.

Michael Jordan can look at Kwame and Gasol and decide Kwame should be the #1 pick. But greatness at basketball makes you know talent?

*well aware that none of that is new information*

Like how all the Kobe n*thuggers in this thread(Stacksondeck, RazorBlade, IronFist, Bladers, 7 Cody, Doranku, zizozain) conveniently ignored this post. It's always the same with Kobe trolls, stats and quotes are ONLY valid, when it benefits Kobe. When they don't, those quotes are from people who don't know anything and stats don't tell the whole story. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: This forum is sh*t.

[StacksOnDeck]

90% of the NBA and including the "GOAT" that you guys worship until he says Kobe is better than Lebron.

Still no answer from you idiots...

You think you're more knowledgable than past players and the GOAT?

Still waiting for an answer. Do you lames think you're more knowledgable than your hero Michael Jordan? Lol @ players words now being discounted because it's Kobe they choose.

So still haven't had an answer...

Hopefully by page 20, we can have an answer.

[StacksOnDeck]

Like how all the Kobe n*thuggers in this thread(Stacksondeck, RazorBlade, IronFist, Bladers, 7 Cody, Doranku, zizozain) conveniently ignored this post. It's always the same with Kobe trolls, stats and quotes are ONLY valid, when it benefits Kobe. When they don't, those quotes are from people who don't know anything and stats don't tell the whole story. This forum is sh*t.

The poll doesn't even ask who the best player is. They ask who would you start a franchise with? Obviously not a 32 year old. Who forces you to make the most adjustements? Obviously not Kobe since he plays in a team game while Bron was a one man show. Who will win MVP? Has nothing to do with best player either.

Anyways, why is that Michael Jordan RECENTLY said Kobe is better than Lebron? Do you think you're smarter than Jordan who is the GOAT that you worship like a puppy?

[Simple Jack]

Still waiting for an answer. Do you lames think you're more knowledgable than your hero Michael Jordan? Lol @ players words now being discounted because it's Kobe they choose.

So still haven't had an answer...

Hopefully by page 20, we can have an answer.

Do you think you're more knowledgeable than Jerry West or anyone who's mentioned LeBron as the greatest player in the league?

You don't need to have cancer to be an oncologist. There's a reason not all boxers make great trainers...there's also a reason that not all great players make great coaches.

[StacksOnDeck]

Do you think you're more knowledgeable than Jerry West or anyone who's mentioned LeBron as the greatest player in the league?

You don't need to have cancer to be an oncologist. There's a reason not all boxers make great trainers...there's also a reason that not all great players make great coaches.

So why is that most players INCLUDING Lebron think Kobe is better? I guess they're all stupid. You Lebron fans are just dillusional. It's fine though. I would hate to admit that Kobe is better than my favorite player...if I wasn't a Kobe fan.

Lol, I'm gonna be ready to discredit everything Jordan says. He's only the GOAT....until he says Kobe is the best player. You guys are a joke.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Last GM survey

Who will win the 2009-10 MVP?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 69.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 17.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 6.9%
Also receiving votes:
Tim Duncan, San Antonio; Dwyane Wade, Miami
- Last year: LeBron James 55.6%







LeBron James If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%
- Last year: LeBron James 66.7%







LeBron James Which player forces opposing coaches to make the most adjustments?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 39.3%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 23.2%
3. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 12.5%
Also receiving votes:
Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers; Shaquille O'Neal, Cleveland; Dwyane Wade, Miami


I dont know that that same group wouldnt say Lebron was the best player if they just flat out asked them. At least 3 GMs voting didnt think Kobe was the best 2 and he got no votes at all for best 3...so there are several GMs who think Kobe isnt even the best at his position. Forget the league.

Besides the hit or miss results of the draft alone should show that coaches and GMs(mostly former players) arent always the best evaluators of talent.

Michael Jordan can look at Kwame and Gasol and decide Kwame should be the #1 pick. But greatness at basketball makes you know talent?

*well aware that none of that is new information* The thread was over after this post. It seems like Kobe fans just pull numbers out of no where to prove their point. 90% think Kobe's better? :roll:

[Simple Jack]

So why is that most players INCLUDING Lebron think Kobe is better? I guess they're all stupid. You Lebron fans are just dillusional. It's fine though. I would hate to admit that Kobe is better than my favorite player...if I wasn't a Kobe fan.

Lol, I'm gonna be ready to discredit everything Jordan says. He's only the GOAT....until he says Kobe is the best player. You guys are a joke.

It's delusional.

In any event, you didn't address my point. Do you think you are more knowledgeable than Jerry West? Do you have to have cancer to be an oncologist? Do you need to be one of the best boxers to be a great trainer or evaluator of talent?

Why do all Kobe fans resort to the following:

1. Not addressing points others have made.
2. ending the discussion with a "lol"
3. acting as if anything that points to Kobe being the best is definitive (even though it's not quantifiable)
4. posting a picture

How about we have an intelligent discussion and you address the points I've made rather than trying to end the conversation as if your assumption that the more basketball you play, the better you are at evaluating talent, is correct.

[StacksOnDeck]

The thread was over after this post. It seems like Kobe fans just pull numbers out of no where to prove their point. 90% think Kobe's better? :roll:

The poll doesn't even ask who the best player is. They ask who would you start a franchise with? Obviously not a 32 year old. Who forces you to make the most adjustements? Obviously not Kobe since he plays in a team game while Bron was a one man show. Who will win MVP? Has nothing to do with best player either.

Read again. Typical Celtic stans butthurt over game 7. That was over a month ago. Get over it.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

The poll doesn't even ask who the best player is. They ask who would you start a franchise with? Obviously not a 32 year old. Who forces you to make the most adjustements? Obviously not Kobe since he plays in a team game while Bron was a one man show. Who will win MVP? Has nothing to do with best player either.

Read again. Typical Celtic stans butthurt over game 7. That was over a month ago. Get over it. Alright buddy, may I ask where you got the 90% from?

[Simple Jack]

The poll doesn't even ask who the best player is. They ask who would you start a franchise with? Obviously not a 32 year old. Who forces you to make the most adjustements? Obviously not Kobe since he plays in a team game while Bron was a one man show. Who will win MVP? Has nothing to do with best player either.

Read again. Typical Celtic stans butthurt over game 7. That was over a month ago. Get over it.

Didn't Jordan play in a team game too? He ran the same system as Kobe with Phil. You don't think Jordan would be at the top of that list? Man oh man. It seems like all Kobe fans are trolls.

[StacksOnDeck]

Didn't Jordan play in a team game too? He ran the same system as Kobe with Phil. You don't think Jordan would be at the top of that list? Man oh man. It seems like all Kobe fans are trolls.

So now you morons are creating hypotheticals? Pathetic.

Your favorite player's favorite player is Kobe. Must really hurt. The guy you worship says Kobe is the best. Not a good year for you?

[Simple Jack]

So now you morons are creating hypotheticals? Pathetic.

Your favorite player's favorite player is Kobe. Must really hurt. The guy you worship says Kobe is the best. Not a good year for you?

Once again proving that most, if not all Kobe fans are trolls.

[StacksOnDeck]

Once again proving that most, if not all Kobe fans are trolls.

That's right. Nothing else to say? That's like Kobe haters go to move, must say they are trolls.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

:roll: @ him ignoring my post. You obviously pulled numbers our of your ass to try to validate your point. Thanks for proving my point.

Easy.

[Simple Jack]

That's right. Nothing else to say? That's like Kobe haters go to move, must say they are trolls.


You clearly don't like having a discussion. I've made points that you haven't addressed.

Who do you think would cause the coach to make the most changers during the 90's when Jordan was playing?

[StacksOnDeck]

You clearly don't like having a discussion. I've made points that you haven't addressed.

Who do you think would cause the coach to make the most changers during the 90's when Jordan was playing?

Was Lebron playing int he 90's? Unlike you, I don't create hypotheticals.

[chazzy]

(Stacksondeck, RazorBlade, IronFist, Bladers, 7 Cody, Doranku, zizozain)

He's making a list... checking it twice! Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.. raptorfan is angry.. toniight.

[7_cody]

And again, I've seen quotes from A LOT of players mentioning "rings" as the reason why they'd take Kobe over LeBron. It's illogical and irrelevant to the "who is better now" conversation. If they were to ask who has had the better career thus far, Kobe and his rings would be relevant, but that's clearly not the question.

None of the quotes I posted mentioned rings, that I can recall. Also, I could have kept going... and going... and going... because damn near ever player and Coach, after every game, mentions how Kobe is the best in the game. It doesn't happen for LeBron the same way.

[Kurosawa0]

Why does it matter if someone else thinks either player is better than the other? You watch the games. Is your opinion not enough for you?

[Simple Jack]

Was Lebron playing int he 90's? Unlike you, I don't create hypotheticals.

You're right, you make up facts.

That's not the point anyway. You are quoting Kobe's system as the reason he isn't the highest on that list; Jordan would for sure, without a doubt be.

The posts 7_Cody quoted don't really give reasons. They are just statements. Nearly every time a player or coach gives a reason is because he has rings.

[7_cody]

I haven't adressed the last GM survey because it does nothing to support the notion that 90% of the players, coaches, GMs, owners and more believe that Kobe is better, which is true, they do. It talks about who you'd want to start a franchise with. No sh****... even I would start a franchise with LeBron over Kobe. That's a fuc***ng no brainer. You idiots are so retarded. Ever heard of something called youth? Who do you think has more in the tank for years to come?? ....

Lol @ Simplejack... I quoted like a ton of RECENT quotes of players, Coaches, GMs, Owners etc saying that Kobe Bryant is the best player today, or the best player they have ever seen. I even mentioned Jerry West mentioning that he likes LeBron BEFORE YOU DID. That's all you have? Jerry West?

There are 09832491083094183092843210984120843 players, owners, coaches, GM's in the league who think that Kobe is the best and a few who think that LeBron is better. Do you know what the majority means? Where the f** did you go to school?

Whoever mentioned that Kobe fans don't like stats unless they're in Kobe's favor, not true. But saying MJ fg % average is 3% better, therefore MJ >>>>>>> efficient than Kobe is just retarded as hell logic, and is not factual.

[Simple Jack]

I haven't adressed the last GM survey because it does nothing to support the notion that 90% of the players, coaches, GMs, owners and more believe that Kobe is better, which is true, they do. It talks about who you'd want to start a franchise with. No sh****... even I would start a franchise with LeBron over Kobe. That's a fuc***ng no brainer. You idiots are so retarded. Ever heard of something called youth? Who do you think has more in the tank for years to come?? ....

Lol @ Simplejack... I quoted like a ton of RECENT quotes of players, Coaches, GMs, Owners etc saying that Kobe Bryant is the best player today, or the best player they have ever seen. I even mentioned Jerry West mentioning that he likes LeBron BEFORE YOU DID. That's all you have? Jerry West?

There are 09832491083094183092843210984120843 players, owners, coaches, GM's in the league who think that Kobe is the best and a few who think that LeBron is better. Do you know what the majority means? Where the f** did you go to school?

Whoever mentioned that Kobe fans don't like stats unless they're in Kobe's favor, not true. But saying MJ fg % average is 3% better, therefore MJ >>>>>>> efficient than Kobe is just retarded as hell logic, and is not factual.


My point wasn't that more think LeBron, it's the logic you idiots have been using that "an NBA players opinion is more credible and knowledgeable than yours". Jerry West is an NBA player, hence I'll take his opinion over yours? Remember, I'm not the one using this logic.

Jordan is 4% higher than Kobe in FG, in addition to scoring more on a regular basis. His best seasons were consistently more efficient than Kobe's. He was more efficient in the playoffs, and finals, on a consistent basis. What more information do you need to consider Jordan more efficient? LOL at it not being "factual".

Do you know what logic is?

[7_cody]

My point wasn't that more think LeBron, it's the logic you idiots have been using that "an NBA players opinion is more credible and knowledgeable than yours". Jerry West is an NBA player, hence I'll take his opinion over yours? Remember, I'm not the one using this logic.

Jordan is 4% higher than Kobe in FG, in addition to scoring more on a regular basis. His best seasons were consistently more efficient than Kobe's. He was more efficient in the playoffs, and finals, on a consistent basis. What more information do you need to consider Jordan more efficient? LOL at it not being "factual". And it won't always verify what we see. There could be other reasons for a higher fg %..

Do you know what logic is?

You still don't know what "majority" means. You have a serious reading comprehension problem dude, one both of these different threads that we're debating on.

Jordan shooing 4% better than Kobe does not necessarily mean he's more efficient. It's not that simple. The top 10 fg %'s in the NBA are not the top ten most efficient players... wth.

It might be something that verifies what we see, as you mentioned in the other thread, but you can't just look at his fg% and say he's more efficient. It's not factual.

[Simple Jack]

You still don't know what "majority" means. You have a serious reading comprehension problem dude, one both of these different threads that we're debating on.

Jordan shooing 4% better than Kobe does not necessarily mean he's more efficient. It's not that simple. The top 10 fg %'s in the NBA are not the top ten most efficient players... wth.

It might be something that verifies what we see, as you mentioned in the other thread, but you can't just look at his fg% and say he's more efficient. It's not factual.

Are you stupid? I understand what majority means, and I'm going with your logic.

You specifically made a statement about a specific player, and how he is more knowledgeable than us and thus his opinion is more credible. Do you see how the statement I made follows? Let me write it out for you.


Basketball players know more than you,
Thus,
Their opinion is more credible than yours.


See how the question I posed follows?

The top 10 FG% in the NBA, when ppg is relatively close, means they are more efficient than their counterparts. Do you know what efficiency means? In terms of basketball, it means scoring more points (or similar) at a higher %.

[7_cody]

Are you stupid? I understand what majority means, and I'm going with your logic.

You specifically made a statement about a specific player, and how he is more knowledgeable than us and thus his opinion is more credible. Do you see how the statement I made follows? Let me write it out for you.


Basketball players know more than you,
Thus,
Their opinion is more credible than yours.


See how the question I posed follows?

The top 10 FG% in the NBA, when ppg is relatively close, means they are more efficient than their counterparts. Do you know what efficiency means? In terms of basketball, it means scoring more points (or similar) at a higher %.

You still don't get it. You can only mention Jerry West. I brought up a zillion... bleh. That's why I said the "majority".

Either way, believe it or not, you did bring up a FEW good points. Good debate. I'll get back to you tonight if I can.

My logic was a majority... it was never,

(ONE - you only mentioned one, or even a minority) of Basketball players know more than you,
Thus,
Their opinion is more credible than yours.

My argument was,
using your same structure,
A MAJORITY of basketball players know more than you,
Thus,
Their opinion is more credible than yours'

If anything, it'd be,

A majority of basketball players, GMs, Scouts, experts, et know more about basketball than you do,
AND,
The majority of these guys will tell you without hesitation that Kobe is easily the best,
Therefore,
Their opinion is more credible than yours.

Do you see the difference?

Not just a minority, or just one (Jerry West), but a majority. When we vote for the President, we don't elect the minority, we elect the candidate with the majority of the votes.

[Simple Jack]

You still don't get it. You can only mention Jerry West. I brought up a zillion... bleh. That's why I said the "majority".

Either way, believe it or not, you did bring up a FEW good points. Good debate. I'll get back to you tonight if I can.

My logic was a majority... it was never,

(ONE - you only mentioned one, or even a minority) of Basketball players know more than you,
Thus,
Their opinion is more credible than yours.

My argument was,
using your same structure,
A MAJORITY of basketball players know more than you,
Thus,
Their opinion is more credible than yours'

If anything, it'd be,

A majority of basketball players, GMs, Scouts, experts, et know more about basketball than you do,
AND,
The majority of these guys will tell you without hesitation that Kobe is easily the best,
Therefore,
Their opinion is more credible than yours.

Do you see the difference?

Not just a minority, or just one (Jerry West), but a majority. When we vote for the President, we don't elect the minority, we elect the candidate with the majority of the votes.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't you make a comment about how the GOAT thinks Kobe's better, and you'll take his opinion over someone on this forum, because he's the GOAT?

Your assumption lies in the fact that NBA players know more than us, especially when ranking players. If that's the case, my argument (based on your logic) holds.

If you don't agree, please send this to a Philosophy forum or something so we can have a 3rd party evaluate both of our uses of logic.


A majority of basketball players, GMs, Scouts, experts, et know more about basketball than you do,

That's not what you are assuming. You are assuming the ones who think Kobe is better know more than me, while the ones thinking LeBron are better don't. If not, then my previous statement stands.

Geez, is this a bad joke?

[7_cody]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't you make a comment about how the GOAT thinks Kobe's better, and you'll take his opinion over someone on this forum, because he's the GOAT?

Your assumption lies in the fact that NBA players know more than us, especially when ranking players. If that's the case, my argument (based on your logic) holds.

If you don't agree, please send this to a Philosophy forum or something so we can have a 3rd party evaluate both of our uses of logic.



That's not what you are assuming. You are assuming the ones who think Kobe is better know more than me, while the ones thinking LeBron are better don't. If not, then my previous statement stands.

Geez, is this a bad joke?

You truly can't read. I must say though, I'm amazed at your ability to twist and weave around the truth.

[Mor'Fiyah]

The top 10 FG% in the NBA, when ppg is relatively close, means they are more efficient than their counterparts. Do you know what efficiency means? In terms of basketball, it means scoring more points (or similar) at a higher %.

I am not disagreeing/or agreeing with you that Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe. Just pointing out that what you said above is absolutely wrong. Efficiency means scoring more points in the least amount of shots. This is why guys who shoot the three and score more points at a lower FG% can be more efficient than guys who shoot mostly two's at a higher FG%.

Carry on.

[Doranku]

I am not disagreeing/or agreeing with you that Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe. Just pointing out that what you said above is absolutely wrong. Efficiency means scoring more points in the least amount of shots. This is why guys who shoot the three and score more points at a lower FG% can be more efficient than guys who shoot mostly two's at a higher FG%.

Carry on.

Right, I remember someone saying Jordan was at 1.31 points per shot over his career compared to Kobe's 1.30 points per shot.

Pretty equal to me. :confusedshrug:

[JtotheIzzo]

But on ISH, it's Lebron.

:oldlol:

I wonder whose opinion I should to...


seniority always gets the benefit of the doubt.

Kobe is the senior representative of the superstar category, and hence it is politically correct to defer to him as the best (having back to back rings doesn't hurt either). People assume the younger cats will have3 their day, and this way everyone can be a winner.

[momo]

seniority always gets the benefit of the doubt.

Kobe is the senior representative of the superstar category, and hence it is politically correct to defer to him as the best (having back to back rings doesn't hurt either). People assume the younger cats will have3 their day, and this way everyone can be a winner.

Yep.

[StacksOnDeck]

Still haven't found an answer

[Simple Jack]

You truly can't read. I must say though, I'm amazed at your ability to twist and weave around the truth.

Well that's one way to end a debate...:applause:

[Simple Jack]

I am not disagreeing/or agreeing with you that Jordan was a more efficient scorer than Kobe. Just pointing out that what you said above is absolutely wrong. Efficiency means scoring more points in the least amount of shots. This is why guys who shoot the three and score more points at a lower FG% can be more efficient than guys who shoot mostly two's at a higher FG%.

Carry on.

Key word.