Prime Michael Jordan NBA Finals stats (1991-1993)

[Lebron23]

Age 28-30 yrs.old

1991 Finals: 31.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 11.4 ast, 2.8 stls, 1.4 blks (55.8% FG)
1992 Finals: 35.8 pts, 4.8 reb, 6.5 ast, 3.5 stls (52.6% FG)
1993 Finals: 41.0 pts, 8.5 reb, 6.3 ast, 2.3 stls (51% FG)

He's the greatest player of all time, but those numbers are mind boggling.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J6bFVALZKDs/Sq4nBEjC4II/AAAAAAAAB3U/v6-tT50xl1c/s400/michael+jordan+NBA+MVP.jpg

[m y t i n]

Goat

[elganator]

That's why he is the best. He performed his best when it mattered most. Those finals numbers are straight up ridiculous. :bowdown:

[Toizumi]

:bowdown:

Shooting at sick percentages too. You also have to factor in things that don't show up on the stat sheets: leadership and his defense (not just the blocks and steals).

Eventhough it's arguable (since rankings are subjective), MJ is GOAT in my book. It was/is always a pleasure whatching him play, but during those Bulls days I always was more of a Pippen fan though. Liked his playing style more (had to represent).




- in before Kobe stans

[dough]

And against GREAT competition. And he looked even better than the numbers indicate.

[macmac]

In before someone baits Kobe fans into arguing with him only to then accuse them of constantly comparing Kobe to Jordan.....oh...too late :confusedshrug:

[plowking]

Whoah! This Michael Jordan guy was pretty good!

[jstern]

That's the big difference, when a teenager says Kobe is better. The big difference, other than stats is that Jordan played bigger the tougher the competition. His stats went up when facing great teams, rather than scoring big on mediocre teams, and shooting a low percentage during the finals.

[ILLsmak]

Gotta post Deezy's just for fun.

2000: 38 ppg, 17 reb, 2 assists, 2.6 blocks 61% FG. 6 game series
2001: 33 ppg, 16 reb, 5 assists, 3.4 blocks 57.3% FG. 5 game series
2002 36 ppg, 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 2.75 blocks 60% FG. sweeepp.

-Smak

[Killuminati90]

1993 finals stats are just...sh*t...

[Lebron23]

Gotta post Deezy's just for fun.

2000: 38 ppg, 17 reb, 2 assists, 2.6 blocks 61% FG. 6 game series
2001: 33 ppg, 16 reb, 5 assists, 3.4 blocks 57.3% FG. 5 game series
2002 36 ppg, 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 2.75 blocks 60% FG. sweeepp.

-Smak


Shaquille O'Neal

:pimp: :pimp: :pimp:

[lukekarts]

MJ was so good I reckon he could even beat a team of ultimate basketball playing aliens.

[plowking]

MJ was so good I reckon he could even beat a team of ultimate basketball playing aliens.

Video proof or GTFO.

[Glide2keva]

In before Roundball inundates this thread with extra long Pippen, Witl, Russell posts.

[dunksby]

Video proof or GTFO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFwXDN3sI8g

[Bandito]

1991 Finals: 31.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 11.4 ast, 2.8 stls, 1.4 blks (55.8% FG)
This just crazy, 30 points and 11 assists? Man he is the best ever.

[EricForman]

i already know where this thread will go. im gonna log off, go take a dump and watch some TV. come back in a couple of hours and it's going to be roundball calling all of us stans and that we are brainwashed by the media. and that pip was just as important, if not more, as mike during those three finals.

[ShaqAttack3234]

And he also guarded Magic Johnson in the 1991 finals, held him to a low shooting %, Magic committed a ton of turnovers and barely had more assists than MJ.

[EricForman]

And he also guarded Magic Johnson in the 1991 finals, held him to a low shooting %, Magic committed a ton of turnovers and barely had more assists than MJ.

and Pip also bought late night takeout for the whole team and fixed Phil Jackson's Macintosh computer so he could properly coach the Bulls during the finals. Pip was the real MVP

[Kellogs4toniee]

You guys do know calling him out like this gives him an exact reason to go "I wasn't going to post here but I find it funny how Jordan stans are insecure and always concerned of me coming in."

Can we stick to talking about Jordan?

Needless to say, those numbers are mind boggling considering the double / triple teams and competition he faced. It is very hard to find a dominating scoring guard that shoots that high of a percentage these days both in the regular season, much less the playoffs.

91-93 was clearly his prime in my opinion. His ability to simply dominate physically on both ends was just un-matched during this time. A mental game as strong as an admantium fortress and a very good team is what got him three more.

[Cyclone112]

and Pip also bought late night takeout for the whole team and fixed Phil Jackson's Macintosh computer so he could properly coach the Bulls during the finals. Pip was the real MVP

:roll:


You guys do know calling him out like this gives him an exact reason to go "I wasn't going to post here but I find it funny how Jordan stans are insecure and always concerned of me coming in."

While I do agree with you in general, Roundball is/was going to come in here eventually no matter what.

[guy]

And he also guarded Magic Johnson in the 1991 finals, held him to a low shooting %, Magic committed a ton of turnovers and barely had more assists than MJ.

And he also did the same to Drexler in the 92 Finals. Its really hard to rank each of those Finals performances in order.

[Samurai Swoosh]

and Pip also bought late night takeout for the whole team and fixed Phil Jackson's Macintosh computer so he could properly coach the Bulls during the finals. Pip was the real MVP
~ Fatal 9 / Roundball Rock

[Fatal9]

Great stats. I personally find Kareem's first three finals more impressive.

'71: 27/19/3 on 61% + 4-5 blocks (most games blow outs)
'74: 33/12/5.4/2 + game winner to save team from elimination
'80: 33/14/3/5 on 55% + game winner in game 5 to put team up 3-2

:bowdown:

I bet Wilt in his first three runs would be even better than Kareem/MJ. I know he did some crazy shit in '67. West probably too. Bird's '86 run was right up there, '84 too just because of how gritty and clutch he was.

[BlueandGold]

Jordan denied hof coaches and players from ever winning a championship (sloan, dunleavy, JVG, Malone, Reggie, Barkley), the players go on and on.

undisputed GOAT



This just crazy, 30 points and 11 assists? Man he is the best ever.

Yep... he did that at SG no less and the only legitimate all-star he could go to was pippen. He's also the only guard to win multiple titles without a dominant center.

good thread :cheers:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Great stats. I personally find Kareem's first three finals more impressive.

'71: 27/19/3 on 61% + 4-5 blocks (most games blow outs)
'74: 33/12/5.4/2 + game winner to save team from elimination
'80: 33/14/3/5 on 55% + game winner in game 5 to put team up 3-2

:bowdown:

I bet Wilt in his first three runs would be even better than Kareem/MJ. I know he did some crazy shit in '67. West probably too. Bird's '86 run was right up there, '84 too just because of how gritty and clutch he was.
You find those impressive even though you were swimming in your dad's sack when they happened?

:wtf:

[Fatal9]

You find those impressive even though you were swimming in your dad's sack when they happened?

:wtf:
I've seen every game from '80 finals, last half of '71 finals, and G6 and G7 from '74 finals, and am aware of what he did in the other games. Even though his statistical impact is huge, I don't think it comes close to actually telling how dominant Kareem was. He made Unseld look like his *****, blocked him or changed his shot every time it seemed like, then beasted on Cowens and completely destroyed the Sixers in '80. Probably seen more of Kareem in the finals than some of the people in this thread have seen Jordan.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Probably seen more of Kareem in the finals than some of the people in this thread have seen Jordan.
And ... are we supposed to be impressed?

Jordan had similar statistical dominance as a guard.

If you're a superstar Center ... having inflated rebound / blocks numbers goes with the territory via position and size.

[Fatal9]

And ... are we supposed to be impressed?

Jordan had similar statistical dominance as a guard.

If you're a superstar Center ... having inflated rebound / blocks numbers goes with the territory via position and size.
Uh, teams averaged 43 rebounds/game in the '74 finals, around 45/game for '80 finals and 47/game for '71 finals. It's not that far away from the numbers nowadays. Team like the Lakers today average around 44-45 rebounds/game. LOL at block numbers being inflated. Right, Kareem who as a 35-40 year old could give you 2-3 blocks in the mid 80s as an old man, wouldn't average even more if he was younger.

I guess numbers were also inflated when Kareem as basically the oldest player in the league at 38, dominated Parish (like 29/10/6/2 on 61% after being criticized in game 1) and was the best player on a court that had Bird, Magic, Parish, McHale, Worthy etc.

[EricForman]

samswoosh, no no! please dont get baited into arguing stats vs these trolls.

hey fatal, yeah kareem had great finals too. so did wilt (although he probably lost :oldlol: )

yes you right.

now please go.

[Obama=ROY]

I can never put MJ as GOAT because:

1. He had too much help (top 5 SF ever, top 5 coach ever and great role players).

2. Some of his teammates testimonies that he wasn't a good team player. And on many many occasions it shows.

3. He won titles as the Magic - Bird/Bad Boys era ended. He didn't end it, it's just great timing and part of the cycle (i.e current Spurs).

His stats isn't mind boggling at all. With great teammates, comes the assists. High rebounds is just part of the triangle. High points is because he shoots a lot, has great teammates and get superstar calls. Sure, he's great, but there has been a lot of great players with a lot less talent around them.

[Alhazred]

1. He had too much help (top 5 SF ever, top 5 coach ever and great role players).

As opposed to who? :confusedshrug:


2. Some of his teammates testimonies that he wasn't a good team player. And on many many occasions it shows.

Same could be said for other all-time legends, as well.


His stats isn't mind boggling at all. With great teammates, comes the assists. High rebounds is just part of the triangle. High points is because he shoots a lot, has great teammates and get superstar calls. Sure, he's great, but there has been a lot of great players with a lot less talent around them.

Like who, for example?

[Fatal9]

This just crazy, 30 points and 11 assists? Man he is the best ever.
Those are like prime Magic finals numbers (who got 26.2/8/13/2.3 on 54%, while hitting the baby hook gamewinner...and this against the 80s Celtics too :eek:). impressive for a shooting guard like MJ to match what Magic did.

[32jazz]

He's also the only guard to win multiple titles without a dominant center.



Zeke & Dumars did that back to back seasons(89/90) before MJ. Please stop trying to rewrite history just as those who say MJ 'led' UNC to a championship.

These revisionist historians don't know when to stop:oldlol:

[EricForman]

I can never put MJ as GOAT because:

1. He had too much help (top 5 SF ever, top 5 coach ever and great role players).

2. Some of his teammates testimonies that he wasn't a good team player. And on many many occasions it shows.

3. He won titles as the Magic - Bird/Bad Boys era ended. He didn't end it, it's just great timing and part of the cycle (i.e current Spurs).

His stats isn't mind boggling at all. With great teammates, comes the assists. High rebounds is just part of the triangle. High points is because he shoots a lot, has great teammates and get superstar calls. Sure, he's great, but there has been a lot of great players with a lot less talent around them.

1: every other pantheon player has a top five something teammate. Magic had top five center. Kareem had top five PG. Wilt had top five SG. Shaq had top five SG. Jordan's cast definitely isn't significantly better (if at all) than any of the other pantheon guys.

2: Not a good team player early in his career perhaps. Later on he had nothing but respect. if you're talking about not a good team player as in he talks alot of trash and is demanding of teammates, well that's an alpha dog trait that is needed to be the greatest.

3: You can't fault him for being born a few years later or that Magic had too much casual sex, right? It's silly to assume Jordan, with reasonable help, wouldn't have beaten Bird or MAgic at all. Isiah's Pistons whupped Magic and Bird at times in the decade and Jordan, with less help than what Magic/Bird/Zeke had, played the Pistons tougher than anyone. You can argue that the Bulls were the second or third best team in the league by 1989. 1989 was when Pip was still a good, but not great player. And I'm being generous with that last sentence.

His stats are mind boggling when compared to the modern era. A guard dropping 30+ on 50+% shooting while playing great D and being the guy with the mark on his back?

At least you're being (somewhat) reasonable and arguing with points (although dumb ones. mike scores alot because he has great teammates and shoots alot and mike rebounds alot because the triangle lets 2guards rebounds alot?), unlike the you-know-whos who will soon be flooding this thread.

Nice try though, thanks later. bye.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Uh, teams averaged 43 rebounds/game in the '74 finals, around 45/game for '80 finals and 47/game for '71 finals. It's not that far away from the numbers nowadays. Team like the Lakers today average around 44-45 rebounds/game. LOL at block numbers being inflated. Right, Kareem who as a 35-40 year old could give you 2-3 blocks in the mid 80s as an old man, wouldn't average even more if he was younger.
Who is arguing the amount of rebounds a team averages a game for those years / eras?

All I'm saying is as a 7'3 ALL STAR Center, you better be grabbing a ton of rebounds and getting block shots.

It doesn't impress me, never has. I expect big men to dominate. EVERY big man. It should come natural. You're a freak of nature, you put your hand up and you're virtually grabbing the rim. You should score AT WILL, you should rebound AT WILL ...

It's like praising your child for making their bed in the morning. No, I expect that out of you.

Now ... a guard or a forward who has as great of statistical dominance as a FREAK of nature big man, who are walking giants. Yeah, that's impressive to me.

[Knoe Itawl]

It was as predictable as Fatal jacking off to the "Kobe Putting In Work" video like porn that he would come in and try to derail the thread.

[EricForman]

It was as predictable as Fatal jacking off to the "Kobe Putting In Work" video like porn that he would come in and try to derail the thread.


give him credit for being creative. instead of the usual arguments, he's slyly bringing up other players stats and then suggesting they're just as good.

hey at least it's something new. he's trying to be slick.

although i suspect that Obama= Roy guy is just another roundball, KAJ, fatal gimmick account. everytime these guys come in, their thread count is always mysteriously low... i'm telling you man it's like a cult organization of three guys with 11 accounts. and the screenames are so generic it's almost like a spam account, jlauber1, robertshaw1, etc

[Samurai Swoosh]

give him credit for being creative. instead of just arguing against the general consensus, he's slyly bringing up other players stats and then suggesting they're just as good.

hey at least it's something new. he's trying to be slick.
The agenda within the agenda.

[Samurai Swoosh]

although i suspect that Obama= Roy guy is just another roundball, KAJ, fatal gimmick account. everytime these guys come in, their thread count is always mysteriously low... i'm telling you man it's like a cult organization of three guys with 11 accounts. and the screenames are so generic it's almost like a spam account, jlauber1, robertshaw1, etc
Its like 2 or 3 friends, with multiple accounts, perpetuating the identical argument out of desperation (as I said an agenda within an agenda). And act as if we're conspiracy theorists when we call them on it.

[Fatal9]

1. He had too much help (top 5 SF ever, top 5 coach ever and great role players).
It is my contention that Jordan had the better team in every playoff series he entered after 1991. Considering he is a top 5 player all time...he better damn win those series. If MJ was so great and clearly above all the other players, why could he not make the finals with a solid team in '90. I know what happened in game 7, but the rest of the guys played pretty well in some of the earlier road games (as opposed to MJ who shot like 39% in those games) and MJ had enough opportunities to end the series quicker...but why could the GOAT not do it? why couldn't he win at the peak of his career with a capable enough team around him? you hear that he is so far above the other guys, and that he would win rings in situations that other players wouldn't, but why could he not win until he got the better team in just about every series he played?

BTW, could you imagine this team in the 90s:

Pippen/Grant/Kareem/Armstrong/Paxson with Phil Jackson coaching - first of all how the hell do you score on this team with a frontline of Pippen/Grant/Kareem. Secondly...is this team flawless? Incredible interior and perimeter team. A great play maker in Pippen. Perimeter scoring by Pip, Armstrong. Excellent shooters. A clutch and GOAT level player like Kareem. The GOAT coach.

Hakeem + role players was enough to win in the 90s. Pippen without MJ was a whistle away from probably making the finals. I really think the Kareem/Pippen combo wins 8 straight in an even more dominating fashion...who's going to stop him? Ewing? :oldlol: Hakeem? The guy Kareem hung 46 and 43 on in consecutive matchups as the oldest player in the league? :oldlol:


Who is arguing the amount of rebounds a team averages a game for those years / eras?

All I'm saying is as a 7'3 ALL STAR Center, you better be grabbing a ton of rebounds and getting block shots.

It doesn't impress me, never has. I expect big men to dominate. EVERY big man. It should come natural. You're a freak of nature, you put your hand up and you're virtually grabbing the rim. You should score AT WILL, you should rebound AT WILL ...

It's like praising your child for making their bed in the morning. No, I expect that out of you.

Now ... a guard or a forward who has as great of statistical dominance as a FREAK of nature big man, who are walking giants. Yeah, that's impressive to me.
Okay...

just because you expect it out dominant centers doesn't make it any less dominant. what are you looking for, that Jordan was more spectacular in how he scored, needed to utilize more skills to do what he did? sure, no one is arguing that, but that doesn't make him a more effective or dominant player.

[32jazz]

Who is arguing the amount of rebounds a team averages a game for those years / eras?

All I'm saying is as a 7'3 ALL STAR Center, you better be grabbing a ton of rebounds and getting block shots.

It doesn't impress me, never has. I expect big men to dominate. EVERY big man. It should come natural. You're a freak of nature, you put your hand up and you're virtually grabbing the rim. You should score AT WILL, you should rebound AT WILL ...

It's like praising your child for making their bed in the morning. No, I expect that out of you.

Now ... a guard or a forward who has as great of statistical dominance as a FREAK of nature big man, who are walking giants. Yeah, that's impressive to me.

Less than 2% of the US population is over 6'4 so MJ isn't exactly a midget. Statistically he is a freak of nature as well.

MJ fans always have some excuse for for the man .:violin:
Not only did Wilt Lead the League in; Scoring, FG%, rebounds, Blocks, he even led in ASSISTS:eek: . MJ with his many supposed advantages as a guard should certainly have come close to leading the league in assists at least once?:confusedshrug:

Wilt Chamberlain's completeness dwarfs any player that has ever played this game. Period. If it is not fair to compare Wilt's(a Center) rebound/scoring/block statistics to MJ then he should only be compared to other guards/Sg's.

Being a center in an era of West,Big O, Frazier, Goodrich, Baylor ,Havelicik, Sam Jones ,Dave Bing ,etc...it is freakishly uncanny that the man was gifted enough to lead the League in ASSISTS.

[Fatal9]

Zeke & Dumars did that back to back seasons(89/90) before MJ. Please stop trying to rewrite history just as those who say MJ 'led' UNC to a championship.
Seriously.

Who was the dominant center on the '04 Pistons? Ben Wallace? He's not a better player than Grant. Who was the dominant center that Rick Barry won with? Though you notice they slyly omitted him by restricting it to only "guards" as Rick Barry is a SF. And like you mentioned who is the dominant center Zeke won with? You could even make a case for Pierce a couple of years ago too, though I think KG was the best player on the team.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Less than 2% of the US population is over 6'4 so MJ isn't exactly a midget. Statistically he is a freak of nature as well.
Jordan is actually like alittle over 6'4, 6'5 - ish. And we aren't talking about general population size, in a league where being 5'11 / 6'0 is ridiculously undersized even for a PG, yet in everyday population size thats a decent height. In basketball terms Jordan was a small guy.

[Kellogs4toniee]

1: every other pantheon player has a top five something teammate. Magic had top five center. Kareem had top five PG. Wilt had top five SG. Shaq had top five SG. Jordan's cast definitely isn't significantly better (if at all) than any of the other pantheon guys.

2: Not a good team player early in his career perhaps. Later on he had nothing but respect. if you're talking about not a good team player as in he talks alot of trash and is demanding of teammates, well that's an alpha dog trait that is needed to be the greatest.

3: You can't fault him for being born a few years later or that Magic had too much casual sex, right? It's silly to assume Jordan, with reasonable help, wouldn't have beaten Bird or MAgic at all. Isiah's Pistons whupped Magic and Bird at times in the decade and Jordan, with less help than what Magic/Bird/Zeke had, played the Pistons tougher than anyone. You can argue that the Bulls were the second or third best team in the league by 1989. 1989 was when Pip was still a good, but not great player. And I'm being generous with that last sentence.

His stats are mind boggling when compared to the modern era. A guard dropping 30+ on 50+% shooting while playing great D and being the guy with the mark on his back?

At least you're being (somewhat) reasonable and arguing with points (although dumb ones. mike scores alot because he has great teammates and shoots alot and mike rebounds alot because the triangle lets 2guards rebounds alot?), unlike the you-know-whos who will soon be flooding this thread.

Nice try though, thanks later. bye.
:applause: :applause:

Owned

[Samurai Swoosh]

just because you expect it out dominant centers doesn't make it any less dominant. what are you looking for, that Jordan was more spectacular in how he scored, needed to utilize more skills to do what he did? sure, no one is arguing that, but that doesn't make him a more effective or dominant player.
Just as dominant as a Center statistically, twice as spectacular in its execution, had intangibles that were more impressive ... inserting his will on opponents. He's just simply more impressive. CONTEXT.

[madmax]

Just as dominant as a Center statistically, twice as spectacular in its execution, had intangibles that were more impressive ... inserting his will on opponents. He's just simply more impressive. CONTEXT.
what "intangibles" are you Jordan fans blabbing about all the time? "Imposing his will on opponents" - LOL, are you suggesting he had some magical willpower, which made his opponents tremble in their feet and shake in front of him:roll: You guys are like a some religious cult, worshipping their leader without questioning his actions. In reality all His Airness had was a great team arround him and a GOAT coach to lead that team to 6 titles in depleted 90's. I saw all the 90's ball with my own eyes, and Bulls were HEAD and SHOUDERS above any other team at that time - it would be strange if Bulls haven't won those rings, as they were favorites in all of those championship series

[PistonsFan#21]

Jordan is actually like alittle over 6'4, 6'5 - ish. And we aren't talking about general population size, in a league where being 5'11 / 6'0 is ridiculously undersized even for a PG, yet in everyday population size thats a decent height. In basketball terms Jordan was a small guy.

I like how you increase Kareem's height to 7'3" while decreasing MJ's height to 6'4" to make it look more impressive. Stop with that BS...Jordan is 6'6" and that his considered a good height for a SG. Not small at all. Most of the SG today aren't even that tall.

ANd when you say yo excpect a Center to have that many blocks and rebounds because they are tall...do you realise that they are playing agaisnt guys that are just as tall as them? They dont necessarly have an advantage on the opponent. Oh and i can say that i excpect a SG to score that much because they are faster and more coordinated so 30ppg isnt impressive. It works both ways

[PistonsFan#21]

Just as dominant as a Center statistically, twice as spectacular in its execution, had intangibles that were more impressive ... inserting his will on opponents. He's just simply more impressive. CONTEXT.

Being spectacular doesnt mean sh#t. Is Iverson better than John Stockton because he does nice crossovers?

Have you thought of maybe being an And1 mixtape fan? Ive heard they are impressive

[ShaqAttack3234]

IMO, Jordan and Shaq are the 2 greatest NBA Finals players.

[32jazz]

Jordan is actually like alittle over 6'4, 6'5 - ish. And we aren't talking about general population size, in a league where being 5'11 / 6'0 is ridiculously undersized even for a PG, yet in everyday population size thats a decent height. In basketball terms Jordan was a small guy.

Convenient how you dismiss Wilt as someone who 'should have dominated' on the boards/scoring/Rebounds/Blocks ,but neglect to point out that MJ should have had an advantage when it comes to ASSISTS, but he never led the League like Wilt did.:confusedshrug:

I don't feel like going over all of the 7 foot stiffs in the history of this game to show you that Wilt didn't dominate simply because of his size(Fact is there have only been about 3 or 4 (?)other true 7 footers in the 60 year history of this League to lead it in rebounds besides Wilt.Top of my head Wilt(about 11 times:oldlol:) /Kareem(once)/D Rob?(once) & Mutombo (4?)

Being a 7 Footer obviously doesn't mean a huge advantage to 7 footers by the few who have ever led the League in REBOUNDS. A total of 3 or 4 in NBA history. Look it up.

Wilt was tall but supremly gifted/talented. Stop comparing MJ to Wilt & keep it to SG's or Guards. It's ridiculous & not fair. Wilt's "COMPLETENESS' is incomparable

[32jazz]

Seriously.

Who was the dominant center on the '04 Pistons? Ben Wallace? He's not a better player than Grant. Who was the dominant center that Rick Barry won with? Though you notice they slyly omitted him by restricting it to only "guards" as Rick Barry is a SF. And like you mentioned who is the dominant center Zeke won with? You could even make a case for Pierce a couple of years ago too, though I think KG was the best player on the team.

Yes I thought about Barry ,but I saw how he slipped 'guard' in there:no: ,but Barry was the teams dominant 'perimeter' player that season with the 6'9 Clifford Ray(?) at center.


The MJ stans will seriously try rewrite history for the man.

[Knoe Itawl]

The funny thing is that all these nutjob Jordan detractors call people stans but they're the ones coming into a thread which points out OBVIOUSLY great numbers in an attempt to somehow take away from Jordan, yet again.

It would be one thing if this was a thread about "Greatest Finals Performances" or something. Then it wouldn't matter if you went on and on about Kareem's performances or anything else. However, some of you just can't STAND to see Jordan get any praise for anything, not matter how valid so you just come in to derail threads with your nonsense.

Only an idiot wouldn't agree that Jordan's Finals numbers pointed out in the original topic are phenomenal. Instead of just ignoring the thread if you don't like Jordan, these weirdos have to make their feelings known under the guise of "debating". It's not about debating. It's about "I can't stand Jordan and I hate the props he gets :banghead: "

So transparent. And so idiotic.

[alenleomessi]

I only know one MJ who was a GOAT!!!

And thats NOT Jordan!

Nah,Nah its not Magic either!

Its Mike James the BEAST!!!:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[YAWN]

It would be one thing if this was a thread about "Greatest Finals Performances" or something. Then it wouldn't matter if you went on and on about Kareem's performances or anything else. However, some of you just can't STAND to see Jordan get any praise for anything, not matter how valid so you just come in to derail threads with your nonsense.


so what is a thread like this supposed to do? have 1000 replies of: "goat :bowdown: :bowdown:"

I think the numbers are phenomenal.. but to expect there to not be any sort of discussion on a thread like this on a basketball message board is pretty naive.

[ILLsmak]

I see the case for Jordan as GOAT, but really... other than maybe Larry... there was no better SF than Pippen. He was THE PROTOTYPICAL SF.

People don't realize that because MJ was such a beast... and Pippen was smart enough to accept his role.

-Smak

[guy]

Age 28-30 yrs.old

1991 Finals: 31.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 11.4 ast, 2.8 stls, 1.4 blks (55.8% FG)
1992 Finals: 35.8 pts, 4.8 reb, 6.5 ast, 3.5 stls (52.6% FG)
1993 Finals: 41.0 pts, 8.5 reb, 6.3 ast, 2.3 stls (51% FG)

He's the greatest player of all time, but those numbers are mind boggling.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J6bFVALZKDs/Sq4nBEjC4II/AAAAAAAAB3U/v6-tT50xl1c/s400/michael+jordan+NBA+MVP.jpg

So how do you guys rank them? I guess I would go:

1. 1991 - His combination of scoring/assists and FG% really jump at you.
2. 1992 - His numbers are amazing while also playing great defense on one of the greatest SGs ever, Clyde Drexler, and also being defended by him.
3. 1993 - By default. I guess one reason I'll put this under the top 2 is cause the Bulls lost 2 of 3 home games.

[Cangri]

Age 28-30 yrs.old

1991 Finals: 31.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 11.4 ast, 2.8 stls, 1.4 blks (55.8% FG)
1992 Finals: 35.8 pts, 4.8 reb, 6.5 ast, 3.5 stls (52.6% FG)
1993 Finals: 41.0 pts, 8.5 reb, 6.3 ast, 2.3 stls (51% FG)

He's the greatest player of all time, but those numbers are mind boggling.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J6bFVALZKDs/Sq4nBEjC4II/AAAAAAAAB3U/v6-tT50xl1c/s400/michael+jordan+NBA+MVP.jpg
Those numbers are just crazy, so dominant and consistent.:cheers:

[Knoe Itawl]

so what is a thread like this supposed to do? have 1000 replies of: "goat :bowdown: :bowdown:"

I think the numbers are phenomenal.. but to expect there to not be any sort of discussion on a thread like this on a basketball message board is pretty naive.

It's not about discussion with these guys though. I'll give you an example. My feelings on Bryant are well known, but you didn't catch me in the 81 points thread going on and on about how others have scored in more important situations or whatever. I'm not going to go out of my way to derail a thread praising Kobe for something valid he's done, since there are plenty of other times to discuss him in on topic ways. I just ignore those threads. I don't come into the threads about his game winners and go "Jordan had x buzzer beaters/game winners in the playoffs" because that's not the place to discuss that.

There is a certain group here who is not content to just discuss their feelings on Jordan in appropriate places, they just can't stand to see Jordan get props for anything and so have to stick their two cents in no matter the situation. It's easy enough to start a "Greatest Finals Games" thread if you're so interested in comparing performances.

Coming into a praise thread with the sole intention of detracting from obvious greatness bespeaks a certain agenda. No one said people shouldn't have discussions but as soon as I see a Jordan praise thread, I know the usual suspects will soon arrive.

[NBASTATMAN]

and Pip also bought late night takeout for the whole team and fixed Phil Jackson's Macintosh computer so he could properly coach the Bulls during the finals. Pip was the real MVP


:applause:

[32jazz]

so what is a thread like this supposed to do? have 1000 replies of: "goat :bowdown: :bowdown:"

I think the numbers are phenomenal.. but to expect there to not be any sort of discussion on a thread like this on a basketball message board is pretty naive.

There is sooooo much MJ butt kissing among fans & media that they are shocked when someone actually challenges them(The outrage kind of reminds me of Christians when one challenges the Bible/Jesus). No one likes you to actually challenge something they WORSHIP.



I think MJ is the best all around SG to play the game(Ref luv & all) & most consistent 'closer' ,BUT...........

I hardly click the MJ threads because I can smell some of the BS a mile away & I peek in occasionally to challenge some of the revisionist history(1st to win w/o dominant Center,led UNC to Champ,etc,etc,.........) & outright neglect of historical proof that other players have played this game as well or better.

[Glide2keva]

It's not about discussion with these guys though. I'll give you an example. My feelings on Bryant are well known, but you didn't catch me in the 81 points thread going on and on about how others have scored in more important situations or whatever. I'm not going to go out of my way to derail a thread praising Kobe for something valid he's done, since there are plenty of other times to discuss him in on topic ways. I just ignore those threads. I don't come into the threads about his game winners and go "Jordan had x buzzer beaters/game winners in the playoffs" because that's not the place to discuss that.

There is a certain group here who is not content to just discuss their feelings on Jordan in appropriate places, they just can't stand to see Jordan get props for anything and so have to stick their two cents in no matter the situation. It's easy enough to start a "Greatest Finals Games" thread if you're so interested in comparing performances.

Coming into a praise thread with the sole intention of detracting from obvious greatness bespeaks a certain agenda. No one said people shouldn't have discussions but as soon as I see a Jordan praise thread, I know the usual suspects will soon arrive.
nothing but truth

[Fatal9]

What were is ECF stats over the same period? He was still dominant, but that was usually when he saw the best defensive teams. I think he got shut down scoring wise in '93, and then Ehlo held him in check after being called soft in game 1, and he beasted (along with Scottie) on the Pistons in '91.

Some days I have MJ's '91 finals as the greatest ever. Sometimes it's Wilt who got 17/29/7 in the '67 finals but I haven't seen any games from the series. Bird in '84 was gritty and clutch. And in '86 maybe the greatest display of all around basketball at the finals stage. Kareem in the first five games of '80 finals was as dominant as anyone. I've seen the entire series, and even though he was injured, I still think this is right there at the top. If Kareem's team doesn't choke in game 7 of '74 finals (kind of like what Jordan went through in '90), that would have been the best to me. Then of course we have Shaq and his threepeat performances. If I had to rank Jordan's, it'd be like '91>'92='93.

LMAO at Knoeitawl aka the king of provocation. Sorry, this is a basketball forum clown. I don't complain when you venture into Laker threads (though others do), there's a more interesting discussion here than "omgz check out those stats".

[Fatal9]

and Pip also bought late night takeout for the whole team and fixed Phil Jackson's Macintosh computer so he could properly coach the Bulls during the finals. Pip was the real MVP

Right, Pippen was worthless. A legit 20/10/10 threat every night with world class D...how replaceable.

'91 - 21/9/7/2, including 32/13/7/5 in the final game + great defense on Magic in some games (something Phil said "changed the fortunes of the team")
'92 - 21/8/8/2, including leading the famous run with Jordan on the bench to avoid a game 7
'93 - 21/9/8/2, including a triple double, and great defense yet again

I'd say he was slightly more valuable than the ball boy :rolleyes:

[Glide2keva]

Right, Pippen was worthless. A legit 20/10/10 threat every night with world class D...how replaceable.

'91 - 21/9/7/2, including 32/13/7/5 in the final game + great defense on Magic in some games (something Phil said "changed the fortunes of the team")
'92 - 21/8/8/2, including leading the famous run with Jordan on the bench to avoid a game 7
'93 - 21/9/8/2, including a triple double, and great defense yet again

I'd say he was slightly more valuable than the ball boy :rolleyes:
You can almost smell the agenda

[OnceInADECADE]

Age 28-30 yrs.old

1991 Finals: 31.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 11.4 ast, 2.8 stls, 1.4 blks (55.8% FG)
1992 Finals: 35.8 pts, 4.8 reb, 6.5 ast, 3.5 stls (52.6% FG)
1993 Finals: 41.0 pts, 8.5 reb, 6.3 ast, 2.3 stls (51% FG)

He's the greatest player of all time, but those numbers are mind boggling.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J6bFVALZKDs/Sq4nBEjC4II/AAAAAAAAB3U/v6-tT50xl1c/s400/michael+jordan+NBA+MVP.jpg

that y he is the goat

[Cyclone112]

You can almost smell the agenda

Smell it? It just took a dump in my mouth.

[Glide2keva]

Smell it? It just took a dump in my mouth.
LMAO!!!!!!

[Glide2keva]

Right, Pippen was worthless. A legit 20/10/10 threat every night with world class D...how replaceable.You get so sensitive when it comes to Pippen. No one is denying his importance, but this thread isn't about him in any way.



'91 - 21/9/7/2, including 32/13/7/5 in the final game + great defense on Magic in some games (something Phil said "changed the fortunes of the team")Pippen played great defense on magic, but Mike guarded him most of the series. This is a myth that Pippen guarded him all series. MJ played him great for the first game and had he not missed the game winner in Game 1, Phil most likely wouldn't have made the switch in Game 2. Buck having a good game wasn't a knock on Jordan, it's magic, that's what he does.


'92 - 21/8/8/2, including leading the famous run with Jordan on the bench to avoid a game 7Again an overrated statement. While it is true mike was on the bench to star the fourth quarter, Phil gave him some extra rest and was about to call it in but decided to leave Pippen in with Bobby Hansen, B.J. Armstrong, Stacey King and Cliff Levingston (?), Hansen made two 3's, King made some moves in the middle, Pippen a few shots and Armstrong hit some shots and they climbed back in the game. But MJ came back in a closed it out. It wasn't all Pippen, the bench did way more than he did.


'93 - 21/9/8/2, including a triple double, and great defense yet again. Yeah because Mike averaging 41.1 for the whole series had nothing to do with that.


I'd say he was slightly more valuable than the ball boy :rolleyes:Pippen was vital to the Bulls' success, but you overrate him too much, just like Roundball.

[Fatal9]

so what's your point? MJ was more valuable and a better player than Pippen...duh. Did you read the post I quoted? Guy was implying Pippen was doing nothing during the finals, that's why I posted Pippen's contributions. Not sure why you would take it as a Pippen > or = MJ statement and waste time on that post.

[Diesel J]

Age 28-30 yrs.old

1991 Finals: 31.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 11.4 ast, 2.8 stls, 1.4 blks (55.8% FG)
1992 Finals: 35.8 pts, 4.8 reb, 6.5 ast, 3.5 stls (52.6% FG)
1993 Finals: 41.0 pts, 8.5 reb, 6.3 ast, 2.3 stls (51% FG)

He's the greatest player of all time, but those numbers are mind boggling.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J6bFVALZKDs/Sq4nBEjC4II/AAAAAAAAB3U/v6-tT50xl1c/s400/michael+jordan+NBA+MVP.jpg


G.O.A.T:pimp:

[Glide2keva]

so what's your point? MJ was more valuable and a better player than Pippen...duh. Did you read the post I quoted? Guy was implying Pippen was doing nothing during the finals, that's why I posted Pippen's contributions. Not sure why you would take it as a Pippen > or = MJ statement and waste time on that post.
He was joking, knowing you would come in with your agenda posts.

[Leviathon1121]

seriously, what a ******. i think the only post that he are following me around and bring up Kobe out of the blue. only two things he thinks about all day, me and Kobe. There was just a thread the other day, it went 20 pages without Kobe's name being brought up and dude comes in a writes an essay about how everything could be connected to Kobe. Needless to say he got laughed at and didn't reenter the thread :oldlol:. What am I going to argue with jlauber about, I already told him how I feel about Bird being too low. I don't think it's right, but the guy has been watching ball for 50 years, I'm not going to tell him I know better.

And yet you will argue until the god damn cows come home when it has to do with Jordan because you hate him so much. You have been arguing against knowledgeable Jordan fans for what over a year now? Yet you ignore everything else as is the case in the top 10 thread. One would have thought somebody underrating Bird, your so called favorite player of all time would have sent you into a frenzy. Nope, but heaven forbid a Jordan fan posts something, or Pippen gets rated 1 spot lower then he should be, then it is Fatal9 Jordan bashing time.

[Bandito]

Kobe's Jordan bastard son.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Sometimes it's Wilt who got 17/29/7 in the '67 finals but I haven't seen any games from the series.

Ehhh, Wilt's 1967 finals isn't in the discussion, IMO. That was far weaker than his overall playoff numbers. He was just the 5th leading scorer on his team.

[Rob123]

I've seen every game from '80 finals, last half of '71 finals, and G6 and G7 from '74 finals, and am aware of what he did in the other games. Even though his statistical impact is huge, I don't think it comes close to actually telling how dominant Kareem was. He made Unseld look like his *****, blocked him or changed his shot every time it seemed like, then beasted on Cowens and completely destroyed the Sixers in '80. Probably seen more of Kareem in the finals than some of the people in this thread have seen Jordan.


hands down coolest kid ever, you definitely win the internet.

[Kellogs4toniee]

so what's your point? MJ was more valuable and a better player than Pippen...duh. Did you read the post I quoted? Guy was implying Pippen was doing nothing during the finals, that's why I posted Pippen's contributions. Not sure why you would take it as a Pippen > or = MJ statement and waste time on that post.


No he wasn't at all. Dude was implying that you would come in and over-rate Pippen just to knock Jordan down a bit. Whether that is your agenda or not, I do not care. Needless to say your going to re-post a response stating something bout this so wanted to make that previous statement perfectly clear first. So yea, he was not implying anything that had to deal with Pippen or the word worthless in any structuring of a sentence.

[globarticles]

I can never put MJ as GOAT because:

1. He had too much help (top 5 SF ever, top 5 coach ever and great role players).

2. Some of his teammates testimonies that he wasn't a good team player. And on many many occasions it shows.

3. He won titles as the Magic - Bird/Bad Boys era ended. He didn't end it, it's just great timing and part of the cycle (i.e current Spurs).

His stats isn't mind boggling at all. With great teammates, comes the assists. High rebounds is just part of the triangle. High points is because he shoots a lot, has great teammates and get superstar calls. Sure, he's great, but there has been a lot of great players with a lot less talent around them.

Ain't nothing but the undeniable truth. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[OldSchoolBBall]

I can never put MJ as GOAT because:

1. He had too much help (top 5 SF ever, top 5 coach ever and great role players).

2. Some of his teammates testimonies that he wasn't a good team player. And on many many occasions it shows.

3. He won titles as the Magic - Bird/Bad Boys era ended. He didn't end it, it's just great timing and part of the cycle (i.e current Spurs).

His stats isn't mind boggling at all. With great teammates, comes the assists. High rebounds is just part of the triangle. High points is because he shoots a lot, has great teammates and get superstar calls. Sure, he's great, but there has been a lot of great players with a lot less talent around them.

LMAO :oldlol:

[The_Yearning]

I can never put MJ as GOAT because:

1. He had too much help (top 5 SF ever, top 5 coach ever and great role players).

2. Some of his teammates testimonies that he wasn't a good team player. And on many many occasions it shows.

3. He won titles as the Magic - Bird/Bad Boys era ended. He didn't end it, it's just great timing and part of the cycle (i.e current Spurs).

His stats isn't mind boggling at all. With great teammates, comes the assists. High rebounds is just part of the triangle. High points is because he shoots a lot, has great teammates and get superstar calls. Sure, he's great, but there has been a lot of great players with a lot less talent around them.

Lol what this N!GGA on? Who you think the goat? Russel?

[plowking]

Those are like prime Magic finals numbers (who got 26.2/8/13/2.3 on 54%, while hitting the baby hook gamewinner...and this against the 80s Celtics too :eek:). impressive for a shooting guard like MJ to match what Magic did.

He didn't match it.

He bettered it.

[EricForman]

i like how about two pages back i thoroughly sh*tted on obama = roy's claims by having an answer/counter for everything he wrote, yet all the other goons pretend like that didnt happen and repost Obama's post and put the :applause: icon.

[Manute for Ever!]

It's not about discussion with these guys though. I'll give you an example. My feelings on Bryant are well known, but you didn't catch me in the 81 points thread going on and on about how others have scored in more important situations or whatever. I'm not going to go out of my way to derail a thread praising Kobe for something valid he's done, since there are plenty of other times to discuss him in on topic ways. I just ignore those threads. I don't come into the threads about his game winners and go "Jordan had x buzzer beaters/game winners in the playoffs" because that's not the place to discuss that.
There is a certain group here who is not content to just discuss their feelings on Jordan in appropriate places, they just can't stand to see Jordan get props for anything and so have to stick their two cents in no matter the situation. It's easy enough to start a "Greatest Finals Games" thread if you're so interested in comparing performances.

Coming into a praise thread with the sole intention of detracting from obvious greatness bespeaks a certain agenda. No one said people shouldn't have discussions but as soon as I see a Jordan praise thread, I know the usual suspects will soon arrive.

+1. :applause:

[Dave3]

i like how about two pages back i thoroughly sh*tted on obama = roy's claims by having an answer/counter for everything he wrote, yet all the other goons pretend like that didnt happen and repost Obama's post and put the :applause: icon.
Obviously...by doing so they acknowledge they're wrong, and they're way not smart enough to be able to handle that acknowledgment.

[globarticles]

i like how about two pages back i thoroughly sh*tted on obama = roy's claims by having an answer/counter for everything he wrote, yet all the other goons pretend like that didnt happen and repost Obama's post and put the :applause: icon.
maybe your argument aint good nuff son.

[OldSchoolBBall]

He didn't match it.

He bettered it.

Yup. Never mind MJ's enormous defensive impact that series. The amount of energy MJ exerted in that series (and throughout the '89-'91 playoffs, really) has yet to be matched by any player. He was everywhere on both ends at all times. Just insane energy and hustle. Jordan had to have like 35+ deflections in that 5 game Finals series when you include blocks/steals/deflections.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

you people like stats? here's a line for you...

35 pts, 57% fg, 17 boards, 5 assists, 3+ blocks FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON.

[magnax1]

The interesting thing about the argument that Pippen was just as important, is that most people point out how Pippen was the best defender ever, or something of that sort. Yet many coaches and players said that Jordan was better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69SCU79_O0
Such as Kenny Smith.

[Lebron23]

Bump

[PHILA]

you people like stats? here's a line for you...

35 pts, 57% fg, 17 boards, 5 assists, 3+ blocks FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON.
They didn't record blocked shots yet. How about this line:

34 pts, 54% FG, 25 boards, 5 assists for an entire season.



Ehhh, Wilt's 1967 finals isn't in the discussion, IMO. That was far weaker than his overall playoff numbers. He was just the 5th leading scorer on his team.

Finals MVP award is nonsense, for it should credit the winner for his performance throughout the entire post season. Not too many can be placed in the same discussion as '67 Chamberlain.


Hannum had the most physically imposing front line in NBA history: Chet Walker, Luke Jackson and Chamberlain were tall, wide and rippled with muscles. They formed a wall in front of the basket that no team could penetrate, unless a player wanted to eat the ball or count his bruises.

Six players averaged double figures. Wilt still scored 24 per game, but he only shot when he knew he'd make it; he led the league in field goal percentage at .683. Consider that New York's Walt Bellamy was second at .521, and you can put Wilt's marksmanship into context.

Chamberlain's critics were speechless.




Regular Season Statistics:

24 ppg, 24 rpg, 8 apg, 68 FG%


A couple of notable performances from the regular season.


Sarasota Journal (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=uf4eAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EIwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3823,2058474&dq)

Chamberlain scores 58 points and grabs 25 rebounds shooting 76% from the field to help lead the Sixers to victory, snapping a 2 game losing streak.


The Spokesman Review (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=2AAzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zOgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1311,3623523&dq)

Chamberlain scores 42 points on 18/18 shooting from the field (100% FG) in a 76ers rout of the Bullets 149-118.


NBA Record - 35 consecutive field goals without a miss from February 17, 1967 through February 28, 1967

NBA Record - Most field goals in a game without a miss (18-18, Philadelphia 76ers vs. the Baltimore Bullets on February 24, 1967)

Chamberlain also holds the next two most with 16-16 (March 19, 1967) and 15-15 (January 20, 1967)




In the playoffs it appears Chamberlain had a field day in the first round against the Royals. :applause:


Game 1: 41 points, 23 rebounds, 5 assists, 63% FG

Game 2: 37 points, 27 rebounds, 11 assists, 67% FG

Game 3: 16 points, 30 rebounds, 19 assists, 62% FG

Game 4: 18 points, 27 rebounds, 9 assists, 50% FG


Series Averages: 28.0 ppg, 26.8 rpg, 11 apg, 61% FG



Coach Hannum's comments following Game 2:

"Wilt showed why he should be recognized as the greatest player in the history of the game. We also tried to key in on Oscar Robertson a little more tonight and since Wally Jones is smaller we tried to shift other men on him too. We've got two tough (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1050536&sid=b49859b584455ed76ea4e09a273f7288#) ball clubs, but I feel Philadelphia is physically stronger than the Royals."



Wilt & Russell head to head in the Eastern Division Finals


Game 1:

Wilt - 24 points, 32 rebounds, 12 assists, 12 blocks, 69% FG (Hal Greer had 39 points as well)
Russell - 20 points, 15 rebounds, 4 assists, 50% FG

Times-News (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hG4dAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cSQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4657,46592&dq)

"Wilt broke it open. He was their whole defense, giving us only one shot when he wasn't blocking out shots," Russell admitted.


The Evening Independent (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=2NkLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LVcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4124,65029&dq=)

"Greer, who shot 17-for- 35 from the field and 5-for-5 from the free throw line, said he was surprised in the early minutes that "Boston laid back on me. I don't know what they were trying to do, probably bottle up the middle and tie up Wilt. It threw me off at first, and then I got going."



Game 2:

Wilt - 15 points, 29 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 blocks, 45% FG
Russell - 14 points, 24 rebounds, 5 assists, 36% FG

Eugene Register-Guard (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XOQQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4-ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=6766,663452&dq)

Even with the 2-0 lead, Chamberlain was taking nothing for granted. "I'm a firm believer that all things are possible," he said. "I think they're going to come out just a little bit tougher in the third game."


The Miami News (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=EWMzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EeoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=743,348697&dq)

"It's all over. I really think so, I really do," said Hal Greer after the 76ers won a 107-102 nationally televised thriller at Boston Garden to take a commanding (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1050536&sid=b49859b584455ed76ea4e09a273f7288#) 2-0 lead in the best-of-seven Eastern Division final playoffs.

"We're not going to let up just because we're two up," the veteran backcourt star added. "We're going to bear down even harder than ever."

[PHILA]

Game 3:

Wilt - 20 points, 41 rebounds, 9 assists, 5 blocks, 57% FG
Russell - 10 points, 29 rebounds, 9 assists, 23% FG

The Free Lance-Star (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cxoQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CYsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3522,2535851&dq=)

The 76ers moved the Celtics closer to the brink by whipping them 115-104 Wednesday night for a 3-0 lead in their best-of-7 series as Wilt Chamberlain controlled everything.

Chamberlain took the game in Philadelphia into his own big hands, scoring 20 points, assisting on nine baskets, blocking 5 shots and pulling down a playoff record 41 rebounds. He shared the old mark of 40 with Boston's Bill Russell.

It was big Wilt's dunk in the final period that put the 76ers ahead to stay 100-99, and when Wally Jones followed with three baskets and Chet Walker one for a 108-102 spread, the game was over. Chamberlain had help from Hal Greer, who scored 30 points, and Jones, who hit 21.



Game 4:

Entire 2nd half: http://www.youtube.com/user/NBAFan1426# ... BA403B08DC (http://www.youtube.com/user/NBAFan1426#grid/user/03567BBA403B08DC)

(Perhaps bothered by severe pain (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00B15F63C5E137A93CAA9178FD85F43 8685F9) in both knee joints.)

Wilt - 20 points, 22 rebounds, 10 assists, at least 3 blocks, 44% FG
Russell - 9 points, 28 rebounds, 5 assists, 29% FG

The Tuscaloosa News (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kXwhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pIoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3668,1777477&dq)

"We expect to wrap it up in Philly," Hannum said in a dressing room interview shortened because of an earlier threatening telephone call. "We won't be back to Boston." added veteran guard Hal Greer. "I don't think Boston can put games back-to-back like this one today."

Russell's work against Chamberlain was also a factor. The 7-foot-1 Philadelphia superstar had 20 points and 10 assists, but was not as dominant as in earlier games and lost the rebound battle to the 6-foot-9 Russell, 28-22. Luke Jackson led the 76ers with 29 points and Greer had 28.

Game 5:

Highlight of this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCaMsm9AOag

Wilt - 29 points, 36 rebounds, 13 assists, 7 blocks, 63% FG
Russell - 4 points, 21 rebounds, 7 assists, 40% FG

The Pittsburgh Press (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=sWocAAAAIBAJ&sjid=YU8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=7167,5365013&dq)

"I told the fellows I wouldn't exchange this team for any bunch of players in the world," Russell said. 'We lost. But this was my most enjoyable year in basketball. This is not the end of the Celtics."

Series averages:

Wilt - 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, 6+ bpg, 56% FG
Russell - 11.4 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 apg, 36% FG



LIFE Magazine (http://books.google.com/books?id=GFYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA82&dq=wilt+chamberlain&hl=en&ei=_jRFTJvuDMP48Aa35LClBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false)

In the locker room the reporters pop the big question: will this series prove he's the greatest? Wilt denies it: "If I'm the greatest player ever, I''m the greatest win or lose." It is something he has said before.



After the 76ers won the series, everyone in the locker room except Chamberlain was excited and celebrating with champagne. Chamberlain was the one who reminded the team that they needed to win 4 more games to be the champions.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2a6pceb.gif





NBA Finals between the Warriors & Sixers. Wilt & Nate head to head.

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1967.htm


Game 1:


Wilt - 16 points, 33 rebounds, 10 assists, 75% FG
Nate - 24 points, 31 rebounds, 3 assists, 50% FG


Chamberlain has a game saving block on Nate Thurmond to send the game in OT, where the Sixers pulled out with the win.

[I]'After the 76ers couldn

[PHILA]

Game 5:

Wilt - 20 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 60% FG
Nate - 17 points, 28 rebounds, 1 assist, 33% FG


[I]'SF jumped to a 9-6 lead but the 76ers pulled ahead 24-19. They maintained their slim lead in the 2nd quarter behind Walker

[SinJackal]

Age 28-30 yrs.old

1991 Finals: 31.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 11.4 ast, 2.8 stls, 1.4 blks (55.8% FG)
1992 Finals: 35.8 pts, 4.8 reb, 6.5 ast, 3.5 stls (52.6% FG)
1993 Finals: 41.0 pts, 8.5 reb, 6.3 ast, 2.3 stls (51% FG)

He's the greatest player of all time, but those numbers are mind boggling.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J6bFVALZKDs/Sq4nBEjC4II/AAAAAAAAB3U/v6-tT50xl1c/s400/michael+jordan+NBA+MVP.jpg

Too bad Stacey King wasn't announcing for the Bulls back then. He'd be yelling, "STOP IT! STOP IT!", and falling out of his chair all game long if he was announcing for MJ.

[Ne 1]

Okay so what's the point of this thread?

Anyone can Google the stats from those Finals series or look them up on basketball-reference if they want to.

[Lebron23]

Okay so what's the point of this thread?

Anyone can Google the stats from those Finals series or look them up on basketball-reference if they want to.

Are you insecure?

Because Prime Jordan was better than your favorite NBA player. I am a huge LeBron fanboy, but he's not good as MJ.

[Ne 1]

Are you insecure?

Because Prime Jordan was better than your favorite NBA player. I am a huge LeBron fanboy, but he's not good as MJ.

Insecure about what exactly? What are you getting at?

I'm just wondering what's the point of creating a thread about Michael Jordan's stats during the Finals when everyone can just look them up if they wanted to.

[KG5MVP]

LOL at all the kobe homers giving this post a 2 star

[StillKill24]

weak defense in those finals.

[Nash-tastic]

LOL at all the kobe homers giving this post a 2 star
Who the hell cares about stars?

[az00m]

weak defense in those finals.

1991. Magic shot 43% with 18 points per game, alongside with 4.4 turnovers. Jordan had 2.5 steals per game
1992. Drexler shot 40% and 15% from the 3

WHere was his defense lacking? :oldlol:

[StillKill24]

1991. Magic shot 43% with 18 points per game, alongside with 4.4 turnovers. Jordan had 2.5 steals per game
1992. Drexler shot 40% and 15% from the 3

WHere was his defense lacking? :oldlol:
opposing team defense not jordan's although i doubt he guarded magic.

[Black Magic]

Why was Jordan's assist number so high in the '91 finals? Did it have something to do with the defense or maybe trying to one up Magic?

[KG5MVP]

opposing team defense not jordan's although i doubt he guarded magic.

are you ****ing retarded? did you even watch? MJ guarded magic most of the time

dumbass kobe homer

[KG5MVP]

Why was Jordan's assist number so high in the '91 finals? Did it have something to do with the defense or maybe trying to one up Magic?

because MJ wanted to show it up to Magic

[StillKill24]

are you ****ing retarded? did you even watch? MJ guarded magic most of the time

dumbass kobe homer
why did they put jordan on magic if the bulls had a better defender?

[KG5MVP]

why did they put jordan on magic if the bulls had a better defender?

because Jordan was their best defender?

[StillKill24]

because Jordan was their best defender?
was pippen injured?

[Leviathon1121]

are you ****ing retarded? did you even watch? MJ guarded magic most of the time

dumbass kobe homer

Everyone from Lakersground firmly believes Pippen guarded Magic and Drexler 100% of the time during the finals, and every other star perimeter player the Bulls ever played. Ignore them, they are hopeless.

[Duncan21formvp]

MJ guarded Magic in 1991 Finals - Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcJ_pnFyvMw)

[KG5MVP]

man kobe homers are just constantly trying to find way to criticize MJ, even to the point of delusions.

[Ne 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbjBJy6AWQA

[StillKill24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbjBJy6AWQA

”Your [Scottie Pippen] defense on Magic Johnson changed the fortunes of the series.” -Phil Jackson
:applause: :bowdown: there's the real defense

[Ne 1]

opposing team defense not jordan's although i doubt he guarded magic.

That Suns team was a joke. Overweight hot dog eating center Miller in the the paint, the Suns had zero defensive ability, no wonder MJ has his overrated 41ppg "record".

[KingBeasley08]

Greatest of all Time.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[BEAST Griffin]

Kobe can only dream of numbers like that in the finals.

[Leviathon1121]

That Suns team was a joke. Overweight hot dog eating center Miller in the the paint, the Suns had zero defensive ability, no wonder MJ has his overrated 41ppg "record".

I know Bryant fans like their double standards and all, but this means we get to laugh, scoff, :roll: , :oldlol: , :lol , :confusedshrug: , :rolleyes: , and :blah at his 81 point game now, right?

[Pointguard]

Ehhh, Wilt's 1967 finals isn't in the discussion, IMO. That was far weaker than his overall playoff numbers. He was just the 5th leading scorer on his team.

Hey Russell was frequently the 5th leading scorer on his team and he is Mr. Finals.

[KG5MVP]

Hey Russell was frequently the 5th leading scorer on his team and he is Mr. Finals.

shows u how Russell was overrated

[G-Funk]

Lebron will never get close to that

[Collie]

Insecure about what exactly? What are you getting at?

I'm just wondering what's the point of creating a thread about Michael Jordan's stats during the Finals when everyone can just look them up if they wanted to.

I know this is a 2 month old post, but that's the stupidest reason I've ever heard.

Why create a thread about anything then? Why make a game thread at all, after all I can just "look it up" in ESPN. Dumbass.

[Pointguard]

I thought Jordan guarded Drexler most of the time but Pippen guarded Magic a little bit more than Jordan did (like 60-40). They mixed it up on Magic. Magic was without his two main scoring options (Worthy and Scott). But Jordan was spectacular as he always was in Finals play and the next five full years of action. Jordan didn't lack in GOAT qualities - I am actually suprised that his third and fourth best finals are not more distinctive. When I saw him play in '88 It seemed like it would take a truck to stop him. It seemed impossible to fathom some other great numbers in the sport.

[jlip]

In the '91 Finals, Jordan was the primary defender on Magic in games 1 and 3-5. In game 2, Jordan got into early foul trouble trying to guard Magic. It was then that Pippen became the primary defender. Magic proceeded to have his worst game of that series while Pippen was guarding him. Jordan resumed that responsibility again in games 3-5.

In the 4 games that Jordan served as the primary defender on Magic, Magic avg. 19.75ppg 8.25rpg 13apg (4.5tov) on 46.7%fg. In game 2 with Pippen guarding him Magic had 14pts 7rbs 10asts on 30.7 fg%.

Also, anyone who actually saw the series will tell you that the Bulls would often throw traps and double teams at Magic.

[Nevaeh]

I know this is a 2 month old post, but that's the stupidest reason I've ever heard.

Why create a thread about anything then? Why make a game thread at all, after all I can just "look it up" in ESPN. Dumbass.

The poster NE1 has a hard on for Kobe being better than MJ in any kind of way, because he believes Mike's blocking Kobe's potential for All Time Great status. What he fails to realize is its Kobe's goofy shot selection and legendary choke jobs in the Finals that will keep him out of contention.

On the subject at hand, Jordan was the only guard to DOMINATE on the level of a big man to win consecutive titles (for those that want to pull Isiah Thomas out of their ass to diminish Jordan). And PS, you bring in Wade, I'm bringing in the D-whistle stereo-type and the fact that he could only do it ONCE so don't think about it.

[Dave3]

Lebron will never get close to that
He did in the conference finals....(38, 8 and 8) but it wasn't in the finals, and it wasn't in a winning effort. But yeah, statistically, LeBron is up there with the best. He doesn't have the best clutch or championship resume though.

[NBASTATMAN]

In the '91 Finals, Jordan was the primary defender on Magic in games 1 and 3-5. In game 2, Jordan got into early foul trouble trying to guard Magic. It was then that Pippen became the primary defender. Magic proceeded to have his worst game of that series while Pippen was guarding him. Jordan resumed that responsibility again in games 3-5.

In the 4 games that Jordan served as the primary defender on Magic, Magic avg. 19.75ppg 8.25rpg 13apg (4.5tov) on 46.7%fg. In game 2 with Pippen guarding him Magic had 14pts 7rbs 10asts on 30.7 fg%.

Also, anyone who actually saw the series will tell you that the Bulls would often throw traps and double teams at Magic.



Mj guarded Magic about half the time and so did Pippen.. I think Pippen's bigger body made it harder for Magic... As for Drexler I believe Mj guarded him at least 90 percent of the time...


Someone should look up the Final Stats of the greatest players of all time..
I am sure Shaq's will look really good.. Kareem and Wilt' s would be over the top.. Not sure about Magic and Bird's but I am sure they would be pretty good... Most already kow Mj's... Any other players that you guys believe are top all time players should be looked up.. Please leave Kobe out of this for the sake of his fans ...:roll:

[Zach Morris]

Amazing.

[Zach Morris]

Amazing numbers.

[Zach Morris]

It was as predictable as Fatal jacking off to the "Kobe Putting In Work" video like porn that he would come in and try to derail the thread.

Huh. Sounds like me.

[Micku]

why did they put jordan on magic if the bulls had a better defender?

You can argue who was the best defender at the time between Jordan and Pippen. Popular opinion it was Jordan. Probably because of his quick hands and help D (and because he is popular), but both were extremely good. They had different strengths, so they were high tier. If one of them was better, neither of them were that much better than the other. So it would be more about matchups and wise coaching.

Magic vs Jordan and Pippen:

Jordan and Pippen couldn't single handily guard Magic. Magic was still former MVP and second best player in the game at the time. Jordan did guard him most of the time, but Pippen was more aggressive and physical with Magic. It still didn't help much.

When Jordan guard him, Magic took him to the post. Magic didn't shoot a lot, but he caused teams to try to help and then Magic would pass. But whenever Magic would score, Magic would spin off of Jordan from time to time to do a hook shot or a lay up.

When Pippen guard Magic, people like to mention game 2 with Magic vs Pippen. But game 2 with Magic was similar to game 3 with Jordan. They both messed easy shots that they should've made. Magic spin off of Pippen like he did with Jordan, but he either missed the layup or get block with help D. Magic caused Pippen some trouble in game 3. He made Pippen go into foul trouble similar to Jordan and spin off him to make clutch shots. Pippen fouled out in game 3, and Jordan basically guarded Magic the entire 4th quarter and overtime.

Pippen would switch to other players, but he was sticking Worthy a lot, who also is very hard to stop with his post moves (everybody had post moves back then) and quickness. Jordan guarded Magic most of the time though. Pippen would switch from time to time. Mostly due to Jordan being on the bench, transition, or foul trouble.

What slowed down Magic was team defense. Even with that Magic still had about 18.6 points and 12.4 assists.

Also, people like saying that Magic was injured during the series with the ankle and stuff. Jordan also dealt with injuries too with his knees and his toe that he injured during the Final series. Worthy was injured too. Bad ankle injury from the Portland series. Scott got injured too in the series.

But Magic did very well against two of the best perimeter defenders in the league.


I thought Jordan guarded Drexler most of the time but Pippen guarded Magic a little bit more than Jordan did (like 60-40). They mixed it up on Magic. Magic was without his two main scoring options (Worthy and Scott). But Jordan was spectacular as he always was in Finals play and the next five full years of action. Jordan didn't lack in GOAT qualities - I am actually suprised that his third and fourth best finals are not more distinctive. When I saw him play in '88 It seemed like it would take a truck to stop him. It seemed impossible to fathom some other great numbers in the sport.

Jordan guarded Magic majority of the time. Pippen didn't really guard Magic. He guarded him in game 2, and a little in game 3, but got fouled out. Jordan guard Magic the rest of the game and majority of the series.

It's a shame that Scott and Worthy got down. They both went down in game 4. Worthy wasn't healthy going into the Finals, but still played decent. It just kept bothering him though.

[gengiskhan]

That Suns team was a joke. Overweight hot dog eating center Miller in the the paint, the Suns had zero defensive ability, no wonder MJ has his overrated 41ppg "record".

what a retard!!

A true allstar PG in KJ who can score & asisst at will
A true all-time great once-in-a-lifetime PF in Barkley, a defending NBA MVP
A true allstar SG in Dan Majerle who is very good athletic defender as well.
A true off-the-bench scorers in Danny Ainge, tom Chambers & frank johnson.

plus. dumas, West, oliver miller for muscle & a hussle.

A great lineup which was the 2nd Best team in 1992-1993 season behind NYK. & rightly won 63 reg season games!!!

1993 phoenix suns team were clearly better team than 1993 Chicago Bulls.

They were just unfortunate to loose first 2 home games & go down 0-2.

Had they split 1-1, suns would've beat Bulls in tough 7 games series decisively. no questions.

Game 2: absolute nailbiter. Pippen block of 3 pointer saves the day.
Game 3: a triple OT thriller. suns prevail.
Game 4: another nailbiter. Jordan &-1 saves the day.
Game 5: Suns desicively win.
Game 6: absolute nailbiter. Grant block of KJ buzzer beater wins ring.

as you can see suns were clearly better team & more hungrier. But Bulls had Superman who ave 41ppg.

[juju151111]

You can argue who was the best defender at the time between Jordan and Pippen. Popular opinion it was Jordan. Probably because of his quick hands and help D (and because he is popular), but both were extremely good. They had different strengths, so they were high tier. If one of them was better, neither of them were that much better than the other. So it would be more about matchups and wise coaching.

Magic vs Jordan and Pippen:

Jordan and Pippen couldn't single handily guard Magic. Magic was still former MVP and second best player in the game at the time. Jordan did guard him most of the time, but Pippen was more aggressive and physical with Magic. It still didn't help much.

When Jordan guard him, Magic took him to the post. Magic didn't shoot a lot, but he caused teams to try to help and then Magic would pass. But whenever Magic would score, Magic would spin off of Jordan from time to time to do a hook shot or a lay up.

When Pippen guard Magic, people like to mention game 2 with Magic vs Pippen. But game 2 with Magic was similar to game 3 with Jordan. They both messed easy shots that they should've made. Magic spin off of Pippen like he did with Jordan, but he either missed the layup or get block with help D. Magic caused Pippen some trouble in game 3. He made Pippen go into foul trouble similar to Jordan and spin off him to make clutch shots. Pippen fouled out in game 3, and Jordan basically guarded Magic the entire 4th quarter and overtime.

Pippen would switch to other players, but he was sticking Worthy a lot, who also is very hard to stop with his post moves (everybody had post moves back then) and quickness. Jordan guarded Magic most of the time though. Pippen would switch from time to time. Mostly due to Jordan being on the bench, transition, or foul trouble.

What slowed down Magic was team defense. Even with that Magic still had about 18.6 points and 12.4 assists.

Also, people like saying that Magic was injured during the series with the ankle and stuff. Jordan also dealt with injuries too with his knees and his toe that he injured during the Final series. Worthy was injured too. Bad ankle injury from the Portland series. Scott got injured too in the series.

But Magic did very well against two of the best perimeter defenders in the league.



Jordan guarded Magic majority of the time. Pippen didn't really guard Magic. He guarded him in game 2, and a little in game 3, but got fouled out. Jordan guard Magic the rest of the game and majority of the series.

It's a shame that Scott and Worthy got down. They both went down in game 4. Worthy wasn't healthy going into the Finals, but still played decent. It just kept bothering him though.
Don't let MJ haters here u say that. They want it to be Pippen who guarded him in the whole series. When in reality Magic abused him in gm 3 in the post.

[sayitaintso]

Gotta post Deezy's just for fun.

2000: 38 ppg, 17 reb, 2 assists, 2.6 blocks 61% FG. 6 game series
2001: 33 ppg, 16 reb, 5 assists, 3.4 blocks 57.3% FG. 5 game series
2002 36 ppg, 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 2.75 blocks 60% FG. sweeepp.

-Smak

Let me guess. Those are the numbers that carried Kobe?

[KG5MVP]

serious what the **** these numbers aren't human, no human can possibly put up those kind of stats. Jordan is an alien.

[jlip]

Mj guarded Magic about half the time and so did Pippen.. I think Pippen's bigger body made it harder for Magic... As for Drexler I believe Mj guarded him at least 90 percent of the time...


Someone should look up the Final Stats of the greatest players of all time..
I am sure Shaq's will look really good.. Kareem and Wilt' s would be over the top.. Not sure about Magic and Bird's but I am sure they would be pretty good... Most already kow Mj's... Any other players that you guys believe are top all time players should be looked up.. Please leave Kobe out of this for the sake of his fans ...:roll:

I did this some time ago. These are the cumulative finals stats for Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, and Duncan. The bolded stats are what each player led in.

Magic- 9 Finals 51.5 fg% 19.44 ppg 7.94 rpg 11.68 apg 2.04 spg 0.3 bpg 3.8 tov

Bird- 5 Finals 45.6 fg% 23.09 ppg 11.64 rpg 6.03 apg 2.03 spg 0.77 bpg 2.9 tov

Jordan- 6 Finals 48.6 fg% 33.6 ppg 6.03 rpg 5.97 apg 1.77 spg 0.65 bpg 2.8 tov

Shaq -6 Finals 60.1 fg% 28.83 ppg 13.1 rpg 3.43 apg 0.53 spg 2.07 bpg 3.3 tov

Duncan- 4 Finals 47.20 fg% 22.68 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.36 apg 0.86 spg 3.04 bpg 3.1 tov

[magnax1]

Jordan's 93 finals is the best individual performance ever to me. Bulls has no business competing in, let alone winning those finals.

[jlauber]

I did this some time ago. These are the cumulative finals stats for Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, and Duncan. The bolded stats are what each player led in.

Magic- 9 Finals 51.5 fg% 19.44 ppg 7.94 rpg 11.68 apg 2.04 spg 0.3 bpg 3.8 tov

Bird- 5 Finals 45.6 fg% 23.09 ppg 11.64 rpg 6.03 apg 2.03 spg 0.77 bpg 2.9 tov

Jordan- 6 Finals 48.6 fg% 33.6 ppg 6.03 rpg 5.97 apg 1.77 spg 0.65 bpg 2.8 tov

Shaq -6 Finals 60.1 fg% 28.83 ppg 13.1 rpg 3.43 apg 0.53 spg 2.07 bpg 3.3 tov

Duncan- 4 Finals 47.20 fg% 22.68 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.36 apg 0.86 spg 3.04 bpg 3.1 tov

Excellent post.

[StillKill24]

I did this some time ago. These are the cumulative finals stats for Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, and Duncan. The bolded stats are what each player led in.

Magic- 9 Finals 51.5 fg% 19.44 ppg 7.94 rpg 11.68 apg 2.04 spg 0.3 bpg 3.8 tov

Bird- 5 Finals 45.6 fg% 23.09 ppg 11.64 rpg 6.03 apg 2.03 spg 0.77 bpg 2.9 tov

Jordan- 6 Finals 48.6 fg% 33.6 ppg 6.03 rpg 5.97 apg 1.77 spg 0.65 bpg 2.8 tov

Shaq -6 Finals 60.1 fg% 28.83 ppg 13.1 rpg 3.43 apg 0.53 spg 2.07 bpg 3.3 tov

Duncan- 4 Finals 47.20 fg% 22.68 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.36 apg 0.86 spg 3.04 bpg 3.1 tov
Shaq wins GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown:

[KG5MVP]

I did this some time ago. These are the cumulative finals stats for Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, and Duncan. The bolded stats are what each player led in.

Magic- 9 Finals 51.5 fg% 19.44 ppg 7.94 rpg 11.68 apg 2.04 spg 0.3 bpg 3.8 tov

Bird- 5 Finals 45.6 fg% 23.09 ppg 11.64 rpg 6.03 apg 2.03 spg 0.77 bpg 2.9 tov

Jordan- 6 Finals 48.6 fg% 33.6 ppg 6.03 rpg 5.97 apg 1.77 spg 0.65 bpg 2.8 tov

Shaq -6 Finals 60.1 fg% 28.83 ppg 13.1 rpg 3.43 apg 0.53 spg 2.07 bpg 3.3 tov

Duncan- 4 Finals 47.20 fg% 22.68 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.36 apg 0.86 spg 3.04 bpg 3.1 tov

how about you include their finals stats when they were 32-35, and see how they would produce. o yea thats right, they were sh1t when they were older

[Samurai Swoosh]

Jordan's 93 finals is the best individual performance ever to me. Bulls has no business competing in, let alone winning those finals.
This. He imposed his will on EVERYTHING.

[jlip]

how about you include their finals stats when they were 32-35, and see how they would produce. o yea thats right, they were sh1t when they were older

What are you babbling about?

[KG5MVP]

What are you babbling about?

sample is biased

[StillKill24]

Jordan's 93 finals is the best individual performance ever to me. Bulls has no business competing in, let alone winning those finals.
that makes no sense, how does a back to back championship team has no business competing?

[jlip]

sample is biased

How is it biased? It is the averages for EVERY finals that each player played in. There was no picking and choosing. Who is it supposedly biased in favor of or against? Seriously, what are you talking about?

[KG5MVP]

How is it biased? It is the averages for EVERY finals that each player played in. There was no picking and choosing. Who is it supposedly biased in favor of or against? Seriously, what are you talking about?

MJ is goat, yes or no?

[jlauber]

sample is biased

Huh???

He posted their CAREER Finals' performance's. I don't see how that is biased. He could have cherry-picked certain games or series...now that would have been biased. Even Jordan had some bad games. If he had an agenda, he would have posted MJ's 5-19 game, and then found a great game by whoever he was trying to prop up.

I think you are reading too much into this.

[magnax1]

that makes no sense, how does a back to back championship team has no business competing?
:lol
that's like saying the 96 Rockets would have a chance of winning against the Bulls just because they had won the year before.
The difference in talent between Chicago and Phoenix was huge after Barkley and jordan.

[jlip]

MJ is goat, yes or no?
I'm frankly of the opinion that it is impossible to determine definitively a GOAT. There are way too many variables and factors to consider. I simply have a pantheon that, depending on the argument and the day, a case could be made for either of these players. They are, in no particular order, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, and MJ.

[jlauber]

MJ is goat, yes or no?

He was certainly the greatest offensive player in post-season history. Now, if you want to include defense and rebounding, Russell has a case. And, IMHO, Shaq's "three-peat" Finals were the most dominant in NBA history (albeit, only one came against a quality center.)

[magnax1]

I think Shaq's 00 performance is right up there with the best. Nobody else did much on his team. If I remember correctly Kobe and Rice were injured, and really the rest of the team was role players, albeit some very smart role players.

[StillKill24]

:lol
that's like saying the 96 Rockets would have a chance of winning against the Bulls just because they had won the year before.
The difference in talent between Chicago and Phoenix was huge after Barkley and jordan.
yea but the bulls had a prime jordan and prime pippen.

[magnax1]

yea but the bulls had a prime jordan and prime pippen.
Exactly. Other then Pippen and especially Jordan, the team was pretty bad. Grant was good, but I wouldn't want him as a third option on a championship team, and the rest of the club was pretty much spot up shooters and crappy centers.
Phoenix however had KJ (who really wasn't far off from Pippen) Marjerle, Dumas, and Ainge. The team was a lot better when Ceballos was there, but even then the talent level isn't that close.

[NBASTATMAN]

:lol
that's like saying the 96 Rockets would have a chance of winning against the Bulls just because they had won the year before.
The difference in talent between Chicago and Phoenix was huge after Barkley and jordan.


That suns team was a 50 plus win team without barkley... When barkley arrived they traded hornacek for him but they went out and got ainge... Either way both teams were good.. Still I don't think that is his best finals.. His best finals was vs Drexler or Magic..

[jlauber]

I think Shaq's 00 performance is right up there with the best. Nobody else did much on his team. If I remember correctly Kobe and Rice were injured, and really the rest of the team was role players, albeit some very smart role players.

His 2000 Finals was not only a statistical dominant performance, but the Pacers waved the white towel by intentionally fouling him for much of the series. He had a game in which he shot 39 FTs for cryingoutloud (in a win BTW.)

I have often criticized Shaq's relatively poor rebounding (given the fact that he was an athletic marvel at 7-1, 325 lbs.), but in his Finals, he was clearly a dominant rebounder. He outrebounded Motumbo, who led the league in rebounding, as well as physically abusing him en route to 33 ppg...and Motumbo had been the DPOY. He even OUTBLOCKED Motumbo.

MJ was the greatest pure scorer in Finals (and post-season) history, but Jerry West wasn't far behind. But Shaq was not only scoring 35-36 ppg in thise three-peat Finals, he was shooting close to 60%.

As for Russell, he had some impressive offensive Finals. In '65 he averaged 18 ppg on a, get ready for this.... .702 FG% (as well as 29 rpg.) In the '66 Finals he LED the Celtics in scoring at 23.6 ppg. He had some HUGE GAMES, as well. Almost everyone knows about his 30-40 game seven in '62, but he also had a 30-38 clinching game six in '61.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Some sick Jordan numbers taken from a poster on another forum:

Points per 75 possessions, playoffs (Min 2 series, since 1980 only):

35.7 - James 09 (+7.4%)
34.7 - Jordan 93 (7.1%)
33.9 - Jordan 90 (5.0%)
33.4 - Jordan 98 (1.6%)
33.4 - Jordan 92 (2.7%)
33.0 - Jordan 88 (5.9%)
32.6 - Jordan 89 (6.2%)
32.6 - Shaq 98 (7.5%)
32.0 - Gervin 82
31.8 - King 84 (8.0%)
31.4 - Jordan 91 (5.3%)
31.3 - Jordan 96 (2.6%)
31.0 - Jordan 97 (-1.1%)
30.9 - Jordan 95 (0.6%)
30.8 - Shaq 97 (1.7%)
30.5 - Hakeem 95 (0.9%)
30.4 - Wlikins 88 (-1.2%)

As you can see, Jordan is easily the best postseason scorer in history - it's not even close.

[Ne 1]

As you can see, Jordan is easily the best postseason scorer in history - it's not even close.

That is no surprise though.

MJ was the biggest ball hog in NBA history. He led the league in FGA's a record 9 times.

Jordan once said, "I thought of myself first, the team second. I always wanted my team to be successful. But I wanted to be the main cause." He wanted to be the center of the spotlight. He was selfish to the core. He only wanted to win if it brought praise to him.

One time, Bill Cartwright chastised Jordan for not giving up the ball while he was double-teamed. Jordan responded with "but one of the two players was Fred Roberts!" It didn't matter if there was an open teammate, because Jordan thought taking a shot over two guys was better than somebody else taking an uncontested shot.

Doug Collins tried to put Jordan at the point guard in 1989. The idea was that Jordan was such a tremendous penetrator, that he could break down a defense and hit the open man or score. Jordan responded with 11 triple doubles in his first 13 games. However, he was often found going to the scorers' table to check to see how many rebounds or assists he needed to get a triple-double. He played for stats. Doug Collins later said, "Do you know who's the biggest obstacle to us running? Michael Jordan, that's who. He won't let go of the ball."

[madmax]

That is no surprise though.

MJ was the biggest ball hog in NBA history. He led the league in FGA's a record 9 times.

Jordan once said, "I thought of myself first, the team second. I always wanted my team to be successful. But I wanted to be the main cause." He wanted to be the center of the spotlight. He was selfish to the core. He only wanted to win if it brought praise to him.

One time, Bill Cartwright chastised Jordan for not giving up the ball while he was double-teamed. Jordan responded with "but one of the two players was Fred Roberts!" It didn't matter if there was an open teammate, because Jordan thought taking a shot over two guys was better than somebody else taking an uncontested shot.

Doug Collins tried to put Jordan at the point guard in 1989. The idea was that Jordan was such a tremendous penetrator, that he could break down a defense and hit the open man or score. Jordan responded with 11 triple doubles in his first 13 games. However, he was often found going to the scorers' table to check to see how many rebounds or assists he needed to get a triple-double. He played for stats. Doug Collins later said, "Do you know who's the biggest obstacle to us running? Michael Jordan, that's who. He won't let go of the ball."
:applause: :applause:
Truer words have never been spoken...

[Leviathon1121]

That is no surprise though.

MJ was the biggest ball hog in NBA history. He led the league in FGA's a record 9 times.

Jordan once said, "I thought of myself first, the team second. I always wanted my team to be successful. But I wanted to be the main cause." He wanted to be the center of the spotlight. He was selfish to the core. He only wanted to win if it brought praise to him.

One time, Bill Cartwright chastised Jordan for not giving up the ball while he was double-teamed. Jordan responded with "but one of the two players was Fred Roberts!" It didn't matter if there was an open teammate, because Jordan thought taking a shot over two guys was better than somebody else taking an uncontested shot.

Doug Collins tried to put Jordan at the point guard in 1989. The idea was that Jordan was such a tremendous penetrator, that he could break down a defense and hit the open man or score. Jordan responded with 11 triple doubles in his first 13 games. However, he was often found going to the scorers' table to check to see how many rebounds or assists he needed to get a triple-double. He played for stats. Doug Collins later said, "Do you know who's the biggest obstacle to us running? Michael Jordan, that's who. He won't let go of the ball."

Now here is a dude who is absolutely FUMING that a certain favorite player of his actually performs worse in the playoffs, and worse still in the finals.

It has got to suck to go through life being this incredibly angry :roll: :lol :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

Now here is a dude who is absolutely FUMING that a certain favorite player of his actually performs worse in the playoffs, and worse still in the finals.

It has got to suck to go through life being this incredibly angry :roll: :lol :oldlol:


http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w181/Sephiroth166/1272069741077.jpg

[Da_Realist]

Now here is a dude who is absolutely FUMING that a certain favorite player of his actually performs worse in the playoffs, and worse still in the finals.

It has got to suck to go through life being this incredibly angry :roll: :lol :oldlol:

It's quite a few of them on this board :oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

Exactly. Other then Pippen and especially Jordan, the team was pretty bad. Grant was good, but I wouldn't want him as a third option on a championship team, and the rest of the club was pretty much spot up shooters and crappy centers.
Phoenix however had KJ (who really wasn't far off from Pippen) Marjerle, Dumas, and Ainge. The team was a lot better when Ceballos was there, but even then the talent level isn't that close.

The Bulls were the best team. As a team they had no real holes. They had the experience and confidence of a 2 time defending champion. That's why they won all 3 games in Phoenix. You can argue that Phoenix may have had more talent, but they were not the better team. Only when you break down the teams into their parts (forward vs forward, 3rd option vs 3rd option, etc) does it look like Phoenix is better. But that's flawed reasoning. Jordan and Pippen filled in whatever holes the Bulls needed. That's part of the makeup of the team and needs to be considered when evaluating.

The Bulls had 2 players that could do whatever was needed. The Suns had players that played well together, but needed everyone to do their part. If KJ didn't play well, the Suns lost. If Barkley didn't rebound or score efficiently, the Suns lost. The Bulls could withstand a poor game by Horace Grant or BJ Armstrong because Jordan and Pippen could replace that lost production in any phase of the game. This allowed the rest of the team to relax and play within themselves, knowing they didn't have to play the game of their lives for the team to win.

[Sakkreth]

Stats are plainly ridiculous, though LeBron could reach 91's and 92's stats, but 93's stats... impossible for anyone.

[Nevaeh]

The Bulls were the best team. As a team they had no real holes. They had the experience and confidence of a 2 time defending champion. That's why they won all 3 games in Phoenix. You can argue that Phoenix may have had more talent, but they were not the better team. Only when you break down the teams into their parts (forward vs forward, 3rd option vs 3rd option, etc) does it look like Phoenix is better. But that's flawed reasoning. Jordan and Pippen filled in whatever holes the Bulls needed. That's part of the makeup of the team and needs to be considered when evaluating.

The Bulls had 2 players that could do whatever was needed. The Suns had players that played well together, but needed everyone to do their part. If KJ didn't play well, the Suns lost. If Barkley didn't rebound or score efficiently, the Suns lost. The Bulls could withstand a poor game by Horace Grant or BJ Armstrong because Jordan and Pippen could replace that lost production in any phase of the game. This allowed the rest of the team to relax and play within themselves, knowing they didn't have to play the game of their lives for the team to win.


This is yet ANOTHER reason why MJ was the GOAT, if not THE Greatest (don't wanna rock the boat any extra in this thread). Those who actually watched games know how Cartwright or whoever would fumble a pass out of bounds or go cold at the worst time. MJ and Pip were the Masters at off setting those mistakes by becoming a little bit of everything (foward, center, whatever) when the team needed it most.

Funny how some say MJ was a bad teammate but I've yet to hear any of his teammates talking about giving their rings back because they had to get them "Jordan's Way".

[jlauber]

Stats are plainly ridiculous, though LeBron could reach 91's and 92's stats, but 93's stats... impossible for anyone.

As far as PPG, Baylor averaged 40.6 ppg in one Finals, while West was at 38 in another one. West also holds the playoff series record of 46.4 ppg. So, I wouldn't say it they were impossible.

I have always wondered what Chamberlain might have averaged in the Finals in his 61-62 season, had his team scored three more points in game seven of the ECF's (they lost that game by two points.) Why? Because, as we know, Russell had a huge series against the Lakers that year, and his game seven may have been the greatest game seven in NBA history (30 points and 40 rebounds.) BUT, Chamberlain averaged 51.5 ppg against LA in eight regular season games that year, including three of over 60...and an incredible 78 point, 43 rebound game.

Those that criticize Wilt's "drop" in performance in the post-season, fail to mention that he went up against Russell (and a swarming Celtic defense) EIGHT times, which went beyond his "scoring" seasons from the '59-60 season thru the '65-66 season. He did have two series of over 38 ppg against non-Russell teams, and another at 37 ppg. PHILA already covered his entire '66-67 post-season, in which he dominated both Russell and Thurmond, but in the first round of the playoffs that year, he averaged 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, and 11 apg against the Royals. Now, this was in his first year in which he had dramatically cut back his shooting, but interestingly enough, in the first two games of that four game series, he had a 41 point game on 19-30 shooting, and a 37 point game on 16-24 shooting.

Wilt also had three playoff series against Russell in which he averaged over 30 ppg, and another two at 29 and 28, including one series in which he averaged 30 ppg and 31 rpg.

And, in one other season, in his "scoring" seasons ('60 thur '66), he averaged 44.8 ppg (in '62-63), and his team was so pathetic, that they did not even make the playoffs. BTW, in that season, in nine regular season games against Russell and the Celtics, he outscored Russell by an average of 38-14 per game.

My point being that his post-season numbers are skewed by the fact that he faced a HOF center in nearly two-thirds of his 160 post-season games, as well as missing an entire post-season in one of his greatest scoring seasons. He seldom had the luxury of playing against a stiff in his post-season career. And, while his scoring dropped in those 160 games, he elevated his rebounding from 22.9 rpg to 24.5 rpg. He never averaged less than 20 rpg in his 13 post-seasons, and had entire post-seasons of 27, 29, and 30 rpg. He was also never outrebounded by an opposing center in 29 post-season series'.

Once again, I am not challenging Jordan's post-season scoring. He was, without a doubt, the greatest post-season scorer in NBA history. And for those that called him a "ball hog", yes, he was. But, much like Wilt in his high-powered scoring seasons, Jordan was the best scoring option... even when double-teamed. And, as great as "Mr. Clutch" Jerry West was in the post-season, Jordan was the greatest "clutch" scorer in NBA post-season history.

[Pointguard]

In the '91 Finals, Jordan was the primary defender on Magic in games 1 and 3-5. In game 2, Jordan got into early foul trouble trying to guard Magic. It was then that Pippen became the primary defender. Magic proceeded to have his worst game of that series while Pippen was guarding him. Jordan resumed that responsibility again in games 3-5.

In the 4 games that Jordan served as the primary defender on Magic, Magic avg. 19.75ppg 8.25rpg 13apg (4.5tov) on 46.7%fg. In game 2 with Pippen guarding him Magic had 14pts 7rbs 10asts on 30.7 fg%.

Also, anyone who actually saw the series will tell you that the Bulls would often throw traps and double teams at Magic.

Lightening quick traps on Magic too. And Magic was without his two main targets or better yet Worthy was hobbled.

[jlauber]

Lightening quick traps on Magic too. And Magic was without his two main targets or better yet Worthy was hobbled.

I only wish that we could have seen a matchup like the '87 or '85 Lakers against that '91 Bulls team.

[Pointguard]

You can argue who was the best defender at the time between Jordan and Pippen. Popular opinion it was Jordan. Probably because of his quick hands and help D (and because he is popular), but both were extremely good. They had different strengths, so they were high tier. If one of them was better, neither of them were that much better than the other. So it would be more about matchups and wise coaching.

Magic vs Jordan and Pippen:

Jordan and Pippen couldn't single handily guard Magic. Magic was still former MVP and second best player in the game at the time. Jordan did guard him most of the time, but Pippen was more aggressive and physical with Magic. It still didn't help much.

When Jordan guard him, Magic took him to the post. Magic didn't shoot a lot, but he caused teams to try to help and then Magic would pass. But whenever Magic would score, Magic would spin off of Jordan from time to time to do a hook shot or a lay up.

When Pippen guard Magic, people like to mention game 2 with Magic vs Pippen. But game 2 with Magic was similar to game 3 with Jordan. They both messed easy shots that they should've made. Magic spin off of Pippen like he did with Jordan, but he either missed the layup or get block with help D. Magic caused Pippen some trouble in game 3. He made Pippen go into foul trouble similar to Jordan and spin off him to make clutch shots. Pippen fouled out in game 3, and Jordan basically guarded Magic the entire 4th quarter and overtime.

Pippen would switch to other players, but he was sticking Worthy a lot, who also is very hard to stop with his post moves (everybody had post moves back then) and quickness. Jordan guarded Magic most of the time though. Pippen would switch from time to time. Mostly due to Jordan being on the bench, transition, or foul trouble.

What slowed down Magic was team defense. Even with that Magic still had about 18.6 points and 12.4 assists.

Also, people like saying that Magic was injured during the series with the ankle and stuff. Jordan also dealt with injuries too with his knees and his toe that he injured during the Final series. Worthy was injured too. Bad ankle injury from the Portland series. Scott got injured too in the series.

But Magic did very well against two of the best perimeter defenders in the league.



Jordan guarded Magic majority of the time. Pippen didn't really guard Magic. He guarded him in game 2, and a little in game 3, but got fouled out. Jordan guard Magic the rest of the game and majority of the series.

It's a shame that Scott and Worthy got down. They both went down in game 4. Worthy wasn't healthy going into the Finals, but still played decent. It just kept bothering him though.

Thanks! Good Stuff. Perhaps I recall Pippen's dramatics - he guarded Magic with crazzy energy - bumping and flailing. Pippen would also do kamakazeee blitzes on Magic. But Magic was cool, despite the craazy pressure, and trying to make some other young star appear on the Lakers.

[Pointguard]

I did this some time ago. These are the cumulative finals stats for Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, and Duncan. The bolded stats are what each player led in.

Magic- 9 Finals 51.5 fg% 19.44 ppg 7.94 rpg 11.68 apg 2.04 spg 0.3 bpg 3.8 tov

Bird- 5 Finals 45.6 fg% 23.09 ppg 11.64 rpg 6.03 apg 2.03 spg 0.77 bpg 2.9 tov

Jordan- 6 Finals 48.6 fg% 33.6 ppg 6.03 rpg 5.97 apg 1.77 spg 0.65 bpg 2.8 tov

Shaq -6 Finals 60.1 fg% 28.83 ppg 13.1 rpg 3.43 apg 0.53 spg 2.07 bpg 3.3 tov

Duncan- 4 Finals 47.20 fg% 22.68 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.36 apg 0.86 spg 3.04 bpg 3.1 tov

Biggest suprise in all of that is Magic and Bird had more steals than Jordan.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Biggest suprise in all of that is Magic and Bird had more steals than Jordan.

Not really with Magic when you consider the seasons when they made those finals.

Magic
1980- 2.4 spg
1982- 2.7 spg
1983- 2.2 spg
1984- 2.2 spg
1985- 1.5 spg
1987- 1.7 spg
1988- 1.6 spg
1989- 1.8 spg
1991- 1.3 spg

Jordan
1991- 2.7 spg
1992- 2.3 spg
1993- 2.8 spg
1996- 2.2 spg
1997- 1.7 spg
1998- 1.7 spg

Bird
1981- 2 spg
1984- 1.8 spg
1985- 1.6 spg
1986- 2 spg
1987- 1.8 spg

Magic was averaging a ton of steals early in his career and ended up between 1.5-2 spg later in his career, Bird was around 2 steals per game in his finals seasons as well. Jordan had the high steals numbers during the first 3peat, but in the second 3peat, he wasn't really averaging more of them than Magic or Bird use to.

Of course, this isn't a good indication of who played the best defense out of them because we all know that Jordan was easily the best defensive player out of the 3. I think Bird's defense gets underrated, though. He was a very good team defender due to his IQ, anticipation and hustle. His man defense wasn't bad either for the era.

[OldSchoolBBall]

That is no surprise though.

MJ was the biggest ball hog in NBA history.

:oldlol:

It must suck to know that Jordan owns 10 of the top 15 pace-adjusted scoring postseasons in history, including 6 of the top 7. That's total domination on a level your boy has never and will never reach. Someone's name is notably absent from that list, btw. :oldlol:

[jimmy77x]

Age 28-30 yrs.old

1991 Finals: 31.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 11.4 ast, 2.8 stls, 1.4 blks (55.8% FG)
1992 Finals: 35.8 pts, 4.8 reb, 6.5 ast, 3.5 stls (52.6% FG)
1993 Finals: 41.0 pts, 8.5 reb, 6.3 ast, 2.3 stls (51% FG)

He's the greatest player of all time, but those numbers are mind boggling.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_J6bFVALZKDs/Sq4nBEjC4II/AAAAAAAAB3U/v6-tT50xl1c/s400/michael+jordan+NBA+MVP.jpg

But i thought lebron was the GOAT? :lol

[Soundwave]

The '93 Finals don't even look like a real statline. It's like something out of a video game. :oldlol:

[Odinn]

The '93 Finals don't even look like a real statline. It's like something out of a video game. :oldlol:
His 1992 Finals statline is the least impressive one...:bowdown: :bowdown:

[NumberSix]

Shaq's 3peat finals stats > MJ's


Sorry if facts anger Jordan mythologists

[SamuraiSWISH]

Shaq's 3peat finals stats > MJ's
Come on ...

2000 Pacers, 2001 Sixers, 2002 Nets > 1991 Magic, 1992 Blazers, 1993 Suns

:biggums:

[sportjames23]

The '93 Finals don't even look like a real statline. It's like something out of a video game. :oldlol:


MJ went into 2K God Mode in that series. :bowdown:

[sportjames23]

Shaq's 3peat finals stats > MJ's


Sorry if facts anger Jordan mythologists


Sorry you don't no shit about basketball.

[sportjames23]

Come on ...

2000 Pacers, 2001 Sixers, 2002 Nets > 1991 Magic, 1992 Blazers, 1993 Suns

:biggums:


Hell, the late 90s Jazz used to own Shaq and Kobe's Lakers, even sweeping their asses in 1998. Only difference between those Laker teams and the ones who started winning were Phil Jackson. And they were fortunate that the Jazz had gotten old and never played them again.

[diamenz]

early nineties weak - LoL.

i'll give ya late nineties, but you're out of your mind with the former.