JA Adande: "Kobe is the best option for a last-second shot in the history of the NBA"

[PleezeBelieve]

www.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11256/kobe-bryant-making-the-best-of-bad-situations


Why does this guy have a job ANYWHERE? He's a blatant LAME. He writes for the biggest sports-media organization in the world and he's writing sh*t like this?

He needs to be fired TODAY. Dude post no numbers to support his hyperbole bullsh*t. Nothing. Nada.

You see, this is my #1 problem with Laker fans. They talk big sh*t but never support their premise with hard data. They just talk, and talk, and talk, and talk till the cows come home knowing they can rely on the sheer numbers of their fanbase to drive a certain point even though its not true.

They are clearly the worst fanbase in sports.

And getting back to Adande -- this hack job journalist would get ripped to shreds on ISH.

So why is he employed by ESPN?

[Rekindled]

what do you expect, dude worked for LAtime, and is a laker homer just like simmons is a celtic homer.

[gts]

actually phil said it, but if you need to shoot the messenger fell free....


The most telling statement was made just outside the Laker locker room, where Phil Jackson stood outside waiting for an electric cart to drive him down the tunnel and to his car. I told him Kobe’s shot showed why I’d take Bryant over anyone in the final seconds, even the guy who used to wear No. 23. That caused Jackson to raise his eyebrows. Now maybe with six seconds left, enough time to create a good look, I’d go with Jordan. But with only enough time to take a dribble or two, or to catch and fire, I’d go with the best bad shot-maker ever. Because even when it’s a bad shot, Kobe gives you a good shot at winning.

Jackson processed it all, then said two words that resonated as much as Bryant’s three-pointer: “I agree.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11256/kobe-bryant-making-the-best-of-bad-situations

[ImmortalD24]

what do you expect, dude worked for LAtime, and is a laker homer just like simmons is a celtic homer. One pro-Kobe article and he's a Laker homer. Typical.

[Rekindled]

One pro-Kobe article and he's a Laker homer. Typical.

actually he confessed his homerism on the podcast with simmons a year back. it was before 2008 final, go look it up and listen to it.

[PleezeBelieve]

One pro-Kobe article and he's a Laker homer. Typical.
Doeant matter if its only 'one' pro-Kobe article. He made a proclamation w/o any data to support it.

That's called being a hack.

Stop making excuses....

[Lakers13]

You see, this is my #1 problem with Laker fans. They talk big sh*t but never support their premise with hard data. They just talk, and talk, and talk, and talk till the cows come home knowing they can rely on the sheer numbers of their fanbase to drive a certain point even though its not true.

74-8, back that up Jash.

[Lakers13]

Doeant matter if its only 'one' pro-Kobe article. He made a proclamation w/o any data to support it.

That's called being a hack.

Stop making excuses....


Read the article Jash, Phil stated that, and this has already been posted.

[elementally morale]

actually phil said it, but if you need to shoot the messenger fell free....

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11256/kobe-bryant-making-the-best-of-bad-situations

It seems like Phil agreed to what Adande said.

Anyway, it's not outrageous to be thinking this. The guy is skilled enough that he can put up any shot. That's the hardest part, putting the shot up. If you can do that, the rest will take care of itself and some shots will inevitably fall.

You have to be very skilled to be able to put up any shot in 1-2 seconds. It takes SKILL. There are better shooters and there are more deadly spot up shooters to end the game on a set play. But with the game on the line and 2 seconds... I'm not sure anyone having been better. Jordan wasn't better in this department. Reggie Miller also was not -- he was a better spot up shooter though. Bird is the only one I think has a legitimate case.

[Phong]

There will always be idiots who write the stupidest sh:t ever.

For example:


"Suns are the Western Conference favorites" (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155218)
"Lakers fans cheering for the Magic have a reality check coming..." (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133695)

[gts]

Doeant matter if its only 'one' pro-Kobe article. He made a proclamation w/o any data to support it.

That's called being a hack.

Stop making excuses....no phil said it you moron, he just passed it on... are you really this dense?

[Abraham Lincoln]

Give me Larry, every single time.

"Master of the half-inch."

[Lakers13]

There will always be idiots who write the stupidest sh:t ever.

For example:


"Suns are the Western Conference favorites" (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155218)
"Lakers fans cheering for the Magic have a reality check coming..." (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133695)



:applause:

[Lakers13]

Give me Larry, every single time.

"Master of the half-inch."

Larry in the past, Kobe today?

[Abraham Lincoln]

Larry in the past, Kobe today?
Yes in today's game Bryant is the best.

[guy]

What Phil's saying and what Adande is saying is a bit different.

[elementally morale]

One pro-Kobe article and he's a Laker homer. Typical.


Adande IS a Laker-homer. Absolutely.

[elementally morale]

no phil said it you moron, he just passed it on... are you really this dense?

Adande told this to Phil, who (allegedly) agreed. Right?

[PleezeBelieve]

no phil said it you moron, he just passed it on... are you really this dense?
:roll: @ you, clown.

"Phil said it. Phil said it. Phil said it PB, so it must be true. We got you, hehehehe"

I dont give a sh*t what Phil said/thinks. What he says does not equal FACT.

Adande's statement is absolute in nature and over-exaggeration in substance.

Where are the numbers to support it?

[Lakers13]

Adande told this to Phil, who (allegedly) agreed. Right?

Edit: oops

Yeah JA said it for a last second, 1-2 range, he'd give Jordan with more time though

I enjoy you posts "Jeff", this morale kid should post more :D

[gts]

[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve
I dont give a sh*t what Phil said/thinks. What he says does not equal FACT.

Adande's statement is absolute in nature and over-exaggeration in substance.

Where are the numbers to support it
[/QUOTE]

lakers 108- heat 107

[Lakers13]

Where are the numbers to support it?

Do you have anything that supports otherwise? Its just a guys opinion, it's not law.

[elementally morale]

Reading comprehension, people.


[QUOTE]The most telling statement was made just outside the Laker locker room, where Phil Jackson stood outside waiting for an electric cart to drive him down the tunnel and to his car. I told him Kobe

[Rekindled]

if anyone of you were actually in the daily dime game chat room. JA said it right after kobe hit the shot. Unless he is a superhuman, I dont see how it is possible that he can run to phil interview, run back to his computer and type up the statement in the chat all within 5 sec.

[elementally morale]

I dont give a sh*t what Phil said/thinks.

You are doing it the wrong way then. When I don't give a sh!t, I don't post. Why do you?




What he says does not equal FACT.


Absolutely not. What you say also does not. Facts are overrated by the way. Opinions matter a lot. Opinions and points of view. Do you think the Earth is round? Because for thousands of years it was said to be flat... and that was a fact.

How many dimensions do you think there are? Three, as many as you are able to see? Four, as in space-time? Ten? Twenty-six as in superstring theory? Which is the fact? Which one do you want to believe?

I have work to do now, but will look back later.

[Lakers13]

if anyone of you were actually in the daily dime game chat room. JA said it right after kobe hit the shot. Unless he is a superhuman, I dont see how it is possible that he can run to phil interview, run back to his computer and type up the statement in the chat all within 5 sec.

Left chat and did normal after game interviews?

[PleezeBelieve]

I swear, Laker fans are f*cking idiots.

[Rekindled]

Left chat and did normal after game interviews?

he said it 5 sec after the shot went in... go into chat replay and watch.

[PleezeBelieve]

You are doing it the wrong way then. When I don't give a sh!t, I don't post. Why do you?






Absolutely not. What you say also does not. Facts are overrated by the way. Opinions matter a lot. Opinions and points of view. Do you think the Earth is round? Because for thousands of years it was said to be flat... and that was a fact.

How many dimensions do you think there are? Three, as many as you are able to see? Four, as in space-time? Ten? Twenty-six as in superstring theory? Which is the fact? Which one do you want to believe?

I have work to do now, but will look back later.
This thread isn't about Phil Jackson, duh.

Look at you clowns. Just pathetic how deranged you are.

Stop copping pleas and post numbers supporting Adande's statement of fact.

[elementally morale]

I swear, Laker fans are f*cking idiots.

Oh, rly? :oldlol:

[HylianNightmare]

Well phil jacksons assesment is pretty spot on

[Lakers13]

This thread isn't about Phil Jackson, duh.

Look at you clowns. Just pathetic how deranged you are.

Stop copping pleas and post numbers supporting Adande's statement of fact.

Why dont you support facts that state otherwise.

It's a guy opinion, OPINION, process that for a minute.

[elementally morale]

Stop copping pleas and post numbers supporting Adande's statement of fact.


What makes you believe he (Adande) thought it was a fact? From what he wrote it seems he thought it was his opinion.

My opinion is that you actually are pretty smart, and this thread of yours is not the best of tries in the grand scheme of things. I may be wrong though, you being smart is not a fact. It is an opinion -- mine.

Gotta go now.

:rant :eek: :banghead:

:oldlol:

[TheGreatDeraj]

Kobe is a great choice, but Dirk and Ray Allen might be good choices as well. Dirk for his huge height advantage to get a better look and Ray Allen has that quick release and shooting touch.

[DuMa]

guy hits the luckiest shot in his career and people want to start making blanket statements now.

[Lakers13]

guy hits the luckiest shot in his career and people want to start making blanket statements now.

Welcome to ISH and the NBA DuMa

[AJ2k8]

Gotta admit, PB does a good job of getting under people's skin, still don't understand what would make a 13yr old indian kid feel the need to do what he does though:confusedshrug:

[USAF_AMMO]

The stats do not back up this claim:

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

[glidedrxlr22]

Many of you know I dislike Kobe with a passion. Having said that, he is a good clutch player but certainly he is not the best all time. One needs to analyze a lot of these

[Ken_Masters]

[QUOTE=glidedrxlr22]Many of you know I dislike Kobe with a passion. Having said that, he is a good clutch player but certainly he is not the best all time. One needs to analyze a lot of these

[west]

Kobe is a great choice, but Dirk and Ray Allen might be good choices as well. Dirk for his huge height advantage to get a better look and Ray Allen has that quick release and shooting touch.
This and Pierce would be a good option as well.

[Lakers13]

The stats do not back up this claim:

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

They arent complete either, they start at 2003 and end in February of 09.

Not that Kobe as a lot more game winners, but those aren't facts because they ain't complete.

[Lakers13]

[QUOTE=glidedrxlr22]Many of you know I dislike Kobe with a passion. Having said that, he is a good clutch player but certainly he is not the best all time. One needs to analyze a lot of these

[Lyoto15]

its an opinion...Live with it.

[PleezeBelieve]

The stats do not back up this claim:

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
Adande dismissed these numbers as baseless in this very article.

But then he proceeds to post no support data himself.

Who's really baseless here?

[dajadeed]

Adande dismissed these numbers as baseless in this very article.

But then he proceeds to post no support data himself.

Who's really baseless here?


Yeah, you don't make dumbass claims with no data at all, right? :oldlol:

[Batchoy]

I'd go with this...
I'd consider MJ and Bird better. But for the current generation he's gotta be 1 or 2.

[Mor'Fiyah]

[QUOTE=glidedrxlr22] Kobe

[Big#50]

He's up there.

[catch24]

That same dynamic holds exactly true for Jordan. Particularly in the earlier half of his career.

True. Thing is, we really don't know how many GW's Kobe's hit total through out his career if we use 82games criteria (FTs included).

[Indian guy]

Kobe's last shot completion is simply way too mediocre to justify this statement. Not that the statement has any credibility to begin with, coming from Adande, who's a life long LAKER fan.

Kobe IS a Top 5 clutch player of all time though. Of the players I have seen, MJ's the only one I would say was a better last 5 minute player than him. But best last-second shot option? Please. There's nothing to back it up.

[phoenix18]

I will take Ray Allen.

[Mor'Fiyah]

Kobe's last shot completion is simply way too mediocre to justify this statement. Not that the statement has any credibility to begin with, coming from Adande, who's a life long LAKER fan.

Kobe IS a Top 5 clutch player of all time though. Of the players I have seen, MJ's the only one I would say was a better last 5 minute player than him. But best last-second shot option? Please. There's nothing to back it up.

There actually is something to back it up... its called observation. You really cannot quantify the last gasp shot (or at least no one has made an attempt to) and so simple observation will have to suffice. And people will remember Bryant along with Jordan and Miller et all as the pinnacle of last shot greatness.

[Mor'Fiyah]

I will take Ray Allen.

Of course you would... which is why your pick will eventually fade into obscurity and the Kobe pick will have legs long into the next few decades...

[Indian guy]

There actually is something to back it up... its called observation.

Exactly, and observation of Kobe's career tells me it is simply not true to call him the best last-second shot option. You know what's even better than observation though? Facts, which aren't in Kobe's favor at all.

[Disaprine]

Didn't Jeff van Gundy said something like this during the game? Well anyways kobe is not the best but one of the best.

[chazzy]

Can you guys not freaking read? He specifically said that if there was enough time to get off a good look, he'd go with someone like Jordan.. but if there was barely any time to do anything, he'd go with Kobe to take the freak shot.. which isn't THAT absurd considering how many FREAK shots Kobe's made in his career. There's no stat that shows how many "bad shots" at the end of games Kobe's made, much different from simply getting off a good look. Post up all the 82games.com stats you want, you won't find what he's referring to.

Your thread title is so god damn misleading.. edit it to say "best last-second BAD SHOT maker"

[phoenix18]

Of course you would... which is why your pick will eventually fade into obscurity and the Kobe pick will have legs long into the next few decades...
:oldlol: What do you mean by that?

[catch24]

Can you guys not freaking read? He specifically said that if there was enough time to get off a good look, he'd go with someone like Jordan.. but if there was barely any time to do anything, he'd go with Kobe to take the freak shot.. which isn't THAT absurd considering how many FREAK shots Kobe's made in his career. There's no stat that shows how many "bad shots" at the end of games Kobe's made, much different from simply getting off a good look. Post up all the 82games.com stats you want, you won't find what he's referring to.

Your thread title is so god damn misleading.. edit it to say "best last-second BAD SHOT maker"

:cheers:

[jjayfive]

I thought phil jackson said he would take kobe to take a last second bad shot over anyone.

[purple32gold]

[QUOTE=glidedrxlr22]Many of you know I dislike Kobe with a passion. Having said that, he is a good clutch player but certainly he is not the best all time. One needs to analyze a lot of these

[hitmanyr2k]

It seems like Phil agreed to what Adande said.

Anyway, it's not outrageous to be thinking this. The guy is skilled enough that he can put up any shot. That's the hardest part, putting the shot up. If you can do that, the rest will take care of itself and some shots will inevitably fall.

You have to be very skilled to be able to put up any shot in 1-2 seconds. It takes SKILL. There are better shooters and there are more deadly spot up shooters to end the game on a set play. But with the game on the line and 2 seconds... I'm not sure anyone having been better. Jordan wasn't better in this department. Reggie Miller also was not -- he was a better spot up shooter though. Bird is the only one I think has a legitimate case.

Concerning Reggie Miller I beg to differ. He's hit tough shots with little time on the clock and they weren't spotting up :oldlol:

This shot is WAAAYYYYYY tougher than Kobe's considering the distance and Miller has to spin and fadeaway just to get it off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBhC1gMTsc8

Game winner on the push-off of Jordan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlNnLXBnMfM

[phoenix18]

Who has more game-winners? Kobe or Jesus Shuttlesworth?

Just curious.

[chazzy]

This shot WAAAYYYYYY tougher than Kobe's considering the distance and Miller has to spin and fadeaway just to get it off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBhC1gMTsc8

Game winner on the push-off of Jordan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlNnLXBnMfM

Lol, that first one was so difficult he didn't even get it off in time, but that dunk was :eek:

And the 2nd was a pretty good look, squared up and everything

[hitmanyr2k]

Lol, that first one was so difficult he didn't even get it off in time, but that dunk was :eek:

And the 2nd was a pretty good look, squared up and everything

Here's another one for you. 1.2 seconds left :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toDl8B7v0hU&feature=related

[DuMa]

reggie was a great shot maker from all parts of the halfcourt. even in the clutch. hes up there as well

[elementally morale]

These are observations based on opinions. With opinions there isn't a 'best one'. There is one that most people share... but that tends to change over time.

There is no clear cut GOAT. Today it is trendy to say Micheal Jordan. Ten or twenty years from now it will not be as trendy. MJ is not the GOAT. Why not? Becasue there is no GOAT. There are a few people with a case for GOAT but you can never settle these arguments for good. And there is no need to.

There is also not a 'best PG in the NBA right now' and there isn't a 'best SG in the NBA', etc. There are a few (actually: few) people whose case you could defend. We all know the names, don't we?

And there is no 'GOAT last second shot taker'. Jordan has a case. Bird, too. Reggie Miller. Kobe. MAybe Ray Allen. Perhaps some other players. Adande liking Kobe the most is self-explanatory: Adande is a Laker fan, who happens to be a journalist. His profession is to like Kobe the most at the moment. It has no other meaning. This article was something to talk about. That was its purpose and it served it well.

So long.

[chazzy]

And there is no 'GOAT last second shot taker'. Jordan has a case. Bird, too. Reggie Miller. Kobe. MAybe Ray Allen. Perhaps some other players. Adande liking Kobe the most is self-explanatory: Adande is a Laker fan, who happens to be a journalist. His profession is to like Kobe the most at the moment. It has no other meaning. This article was something to talk about. That was its purpose and it served it well.

So long.

:cheers:

Especially when considering his opinion is that he's specifically the best "bad shot" maker.. then it just becomes ridiculous that people would become so offended, and call for Adande's head because he didn't provide an inexistent stat. And Adande likes Kobe just as much as Chris Broussard likes Lebron :oldlol:

[Rekindled]

These are observations based on opinions. With opinions there isn't a 'best one'. There is one that most people share... but that tends to change over time.

There is no clear cut GOAT. Today it is trendy to say Micheal Jordan. Ten or twenty years from now it will not be as trendy. MJ is not the GOAT. Why not? Becasue there is no GOAT. There are a few people with a case for GOAT but you can never settle these arguments for good. And there is no need to.

There is also not a 'best PG in the NBA right now' and there isn't a 'best SG in the NBA', etc. There are a few (actually: few) people whose case you could defend. We all know the names, don't we?

And there is no 'GOAT last second shot taker'. Jordan has a case. Bird, too. Reggie Miller. Kobe. MAybe Ray Allen. Perhaps some other players. Adande liking Kobe the most is self-explanatory: Adande is a Laker fan, who happens to be a journalist. His profession is to like Kobe the most at the moment. It has no other meaning. This article was something to talk about. That was its purpose and it served it well.

So long.

wrong. Larry Bird is the clear-cut most clutch player ever.

[elementally morale]

t people would become so offended, and call for Adande's head because he didn't provide an inexistent stat. And Adande likes Kobe just as much as Chris Broussard likes Lebron


Adande was hired by ESPN to be a Laker fan there. He is not even close to be half of the writer Bill Simmons is. Adande is no writer. He is a journalist (and a pretty average one at that, too).

He has a job at ESPN because the Lakers are good. He was hired in 2008. Coincidence? I guess not. Adande is there to be a Laker fan and a Kobe homer. That is his job. That's what he is getting paid for.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble.

[elementally morale]

wrong. Larry Bird is the clear-cut most clutch player ever.

Sure.

And MARS is the ultimate chocolate bar. What's more, Coca Cola is the best. Can't beat the feeling. (Serve chilled.)

Fact.

[LAClipsFan33]

Last second jump shot ? I'll take Reggie Miller over anybody

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Sure.

And MARS is the ultimate chocolate bar. What's more, Coca Cola is the best. Can't beat the feeling. (Serve chilled.)

Fact.

FACT: pepsi>coke

[elementally morale]

FACT: pepsi>coke

FACT: Bird >>>> ALL

[LAClipsFan33]

FACT: pepsi>coke

No.

[phoenix18]

People I want taking my teams last second shot:

1.Ray Allen
2.Reggie Miller
3.MJ
4.Larry Bird ......

394871932487123094817032498.Jeff Foster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnboXiq33os)
394871932487123094817032499. Kobe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws2yhBzJjis)
Jk

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

No.

prove me wrong.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

People I want taking my teams last second shot:

1.Ray Allen
2.Reggie Miller
3.MJ
4.Larry Bird ......

394871932487123094817032498.Jeff Foster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnboXiq33os)
394871932487123094817032499. Kobe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws2yhBzJjis)
Jk

i see you like typing. i have 2 essays due at the end of the week. interested?

[triangleoffense]

www.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11256/kobe-bryant-making-the-best-of-bad-situations (http://www.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11256/kobe-bryant-making-the-best-of-bad-situations)
^ truest statement ever in the history of BSPN
Corrected. And if you had any knowledge at all about the inner-makings of ESPN you would know the east coast Bristol stationed network has a huge Boston/east coast bias.

And it was Phil that said it. Fail. Starting to see why your called the worst poster on ish.

[sergiorodriguez]

as a blind lakers fan I'd take Robert Horry or Derek Fisher over Kobe

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

as a blind lakers fan I'd take Robert Horry or Derek Fisher over Kobe

i would def take a blind horry over a blind kobe.

[YAWN]

not sure if this has been posted but on his twitter i believe he said that he would take kobe with 3 seconds or less as the #1 guy hed want to take the shot, but if he had 5-8 secs he would take Jordan 1 and Kobe 2.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

not sure if this has been posted but on his twitter i believe he said that he would take kobe with 3 seconds or less as the #1 guy hed want to take the shot, but if he had 5-8 secs he would take Jordan 1 and Kobe 2.

how about 4 seconds left?

[YAWN]

how about 8-11 seconds?
probably mugsy

[ImmortalD24]

as a blind lakers fan I'd take Robert Horry or Derek Fisher over Kobe
Give me a wide open Derek Fisher and Robert Horry over a tightly defended Michael Jordan for a last second shot.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Give me a wide open Derek Fisher and Robert Horry over a tightly defended Michael Jordan for a last second shot.

give me a wide open kobe bryant over a tightly guarded michael jordan any day, any second of the game.

[purple32gold]

People I want taking my teams last second shot:

1.Ray Allen
2.Reggie Miller
3.MJ
4.Larry Bird ......

394871932487123094817032498.Jeff Foster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnboXiq33os)
394871932487123094817032499. Kobe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws2yhBzJjis)
Jk
lol and u post a video from his first or 2nd year in the league. ha ya know there's gotta be one thing in life i really want....i wanna be so ****!n badass at something that everytime i do something new that's badass thousands of internet debaters start hatin. when u get a bunch of people to hate you for making a gamewinning shot...u know ur doin somethin right

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

lol and u post a video from his first or 2nd year in the league. ha ya know there's gotta be one thing in life i really want....i wanna be so ****!n badass at something that everytime i do something new that's badass thousands of internet debaters start hatin. when u get a bunch of people to hate you for making a gamewinning shot...u know ur doin somethin right

guess u missed the jk..

[Cyclone112]

lol and u post a video from his first or 2nd year in the league. ha ya know there's gotta be one thing in life i really want....i wanna be so ****!n badass at something that everytime i do something new that's badass thousands of internet debaters start hatin. when u get a bunch of people to hate you for making a gamewinning shot...u know ur doin somethin right

pssst, I want to tell you a secret: He used white text to say he was joking.

[purple32gold]

guess u missed the jk..
haha i did. but still the point stands. thats seriously my goal in life. to be so freakin good at something everyone and their mama got a nasty thing to say when i succeed. cause then you know all ur hard work has paid off.

[LebrickJames84']

lebron james

[Kasper]

1. Larry Bird...






2. everybody else

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

haha i did. but still the point stands. thats seriously my goal in life. to be so freakin good at something everyone and their mama got a nasty thing to say when i succeed. cause then you know all ur hard work has paid off.

yelp, george bush jr. is a perfect example of this.

[TheGreatDeraj]

Adande was hired by ESPN to be a Laker fan there. He is not even close to be half of the writer Bill Simmons is. Adande is no writer. He is a journalist (and a pretty average one at that, too).

He has a job at ESPN because the Lakers are good. He was hired in 2008. Coincidence? I guess not. Adande is there to be a Laker fan and a Kobe homer. That is his job. That's what he is getting paid for.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble.

He's been on ESPN's Around the Horn since at at least 2006. According to Wikipedia, Adande was hired as a ESPN columnist Aug 2007.

[Allstar24]

As a Laker and basketball fan, I also think Kobe is the best option for a last second shot. It's not that complicated, he's the obvious choice.

[oh the horror]

You see, this is my #1 problem with Laker fans. They talk big sh*t but never support their premise with hard data. They just talk, and talk, and talk, and talk till the cows come home knowing they can rely on the sheer numbers of their fanbase to drive a certain point even though its not true.





This is so comical that its almost unreal that it came from a real person who honestly believes in his own nonsense.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

www.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11256/kobe-bryant-making-the-best-of-bad-situations


Why does this guy have a job ANYWHERE? He's a blatant LAME. He writes for the biggest sports-media organization in the world and he's writing sh*t like this?

He needs to be fired TODAY. Dude post no numbers to support his hyperbole bullsh*t. Nothing. Nada.

You see, this is my #1 problem with Laker fans. They talk big sh*t but never support their premise with hard data. They just talk, and talk, and talk, and talk till the cows come home knowing they can rely on the sheer numbers of their fanbase to drive a certain point even though its not true.

They are clearly the worst fanbase in sports.

And getting back to Adande -- this hack job journalist would get ripped to shreds on ISH.

So why is he employed by ESPN?

maybe espn should replace adande with you considering you are much more on point and your predictions are damn near perfect.


Originally Posted by PleezeBelieve after the cavs acquired a 37 year old Shaquille O'Neal
Ok, now that I've seen these pictures, NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE HAS A CHANCE TO BEAT CLEVELAND.....PERIOD.

75-7 in the regular season

16-1 in the postseason


Accept it, b*tches.

[oh the horror]

Yeah, PB there is just the fu*king MASTER of the "hard data" :rolleyes:



This kid is the biggest d*ckless clown we have on this site.

[Allstar24]

Yeah, PB there is just the fu*king MASTER of the "hard data" :rolleyes:



This kid is the biggest d*ckless clown we have on this site.
Haha :oldlol: I didn't even realize this thread was started by that delusional idiot. I wouldn't have wasted 10 seconds of my life responding to his thread.

[ashar008]

www.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11256/kobe-bryant-making-the-best-of-bad-situations


Why does this guy have a job ANYWHERE? He's a blatant LAME. He writes for the biggest sports-media organization in the world and he's writing sh*t like this?

He needs to be fired TODAY. Dude post no numbers to support his hyperbole bullsh*t. Nothing. Nada.

You see, this is my #1 problem with Laker fans. They talk big sh*t but never support their premise with hard data. They just talk, and talk, and talk, and talk till the cows come home knowing they can rely on the sheer numbers of their fanbase to drive a certain point even though its not true.

They are clearly the worst fanbase in sports.

And getting back to Adande -- this hack job journalist would get ripped to shreds on ISH.

So why is he employed by ESPN?

i'd tap that chick in your avy

[elementally morale]

He's been on ESPN's Around the Horn since at at least 2006. According to Wikipedia, Adande was hired as a ESPN columnist Aug 2007.

Same sh!t. He was hired late 2007 then. What for? To write about the Lakers. Everyone knew Adande was with LA Times before that. It didn't come as a surprise he is a Laker fan. Not for ESPN, anyway.

[cotdt]

Same sh!t. He was hired late 2007 then. What for? To write about the Lakers. Everyone knew Adande was with LA Times before that. It didn't come as a surprise he is a Laker fan. Not for ESPN, anyway.

Being a Laker fan does not automatically imply that he is biased in any way.

[elementally morale]

Being a Laker fan does not automatically imply that he is biased in any way.

Not necessarily, sure. But Adande is. He could be impartial, but he isn't. At least he could pretend better. :oldlol:

Or he could just say it out loud like Bill Simmons. No problem with that.

[STATmanLAKERFAN]

Kobe was only the most clutch player and best last second shooter from 05-07 on his team. He may be taking over his team now, but of all time :oldlol:. Come on, who the hell would take Kobe taking the shot over Larry Bird.

[ItsTwisted]

PB I dare you to provide me evidence and "data" that Lebron is a better clutch player then Kobe is.

Come on, I know you started this thread for a reason with an obvious agenda, that being that you believe Lebron is the best clutch player of all time.

I dare you to give me statistics where Lebron has done as many things as Kobe in the 4th quarter to be considered in that category as well as game-winning shots. Do not go to nba.com and give me those stupid statistics. The only reason Lebron is above Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant on that is because of how many gamewinnings shots Kobe and Ray Allen take. I think you clearly forget that in the 4th quarter Lebron loves to PASS. It is his favorite thing to do, where as Kobe, Ray, Dirk, if they have the ball they will shoot it.

Now I am getting off topic here, is Kobe the best last-second shot guy? No he is not. Adande is clearly over reacting as is all of America. I will take Derek Fisher over Kobe in a situation like that, Kobe just happened to be lucky that particular night.

I get where PB is mad as I am as well since everytime I turned on my Espn these last two days they have at least mentioned that as if nobody has ever hit a gamewinning shot.

However PB for you to go asking for data after you said Cavs would go 75-7, after you said they would win the Finals last year, after you said Suns were better then the Lakers, what data did you provide in any of those?

Your Cavs have not looked as impressive these first 20 games, and I am actually rooting for them as I dont like Orlando or Boston. I suggest you go rent out some videos of basketball, take a good look at what basketball is, and maybe people will stop laughing at you cause I dont think you are a bad guy, I just think you are really passionate about your guy James except you dont have the basketball knowledge to back it up.

[branslowski]

Missing the data?....Guess i'll do it for him:

KILLER INSTINCT....


List of Kobe's notable game-winners:

1) 05/10/00 - Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (playoffs)
(2) 06/14/00 - Lakers 120 - Pacers 118 (playoffs)
(3) 11/16/00 - Lakers 112 - Kings 110
(4) 02/07/01 - Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83
(5) 02/13/01 - Lakers 113 - Nets 110
(6) 01/02/02 - Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86
(7) 02/22/02 - Lakers 96 - Hornets 94
(8) 05/12/02 - Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (playoffs)
(9) 12/06/02 - Lakers 105 - Dallas 103
(10) 04/04/03 - Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101
(11) 04/06/03 - Lakers 115 - Suns 113
(12) 12/19/03 - Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99
(13) 02/17/04 - Lakers 89 - Blazers 86
(14) 03/21/04 - Lakers 104 - Bucks 103
(15) 04/14/04 - Lakers 105 - Blazers 104
(16) 03/12/05 - Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116
(17) 11/02/05 - Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97
(18) 01/07/06 - Lakers 112 - Clippers 109
(19) 01/13/06 - Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98
(20) 04/30/06 - Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (playoffs)
(21) 11/23/07 - Lakers 89 - Pacers 88
(22) 01/14/08 - Lakers 123 - Seattle 121
(23) 01/09/09 - Lakers 121- Pacers 119
(24) 12/04/09 - Lakers 108- Heat 107

Lets see here...These 24 game-winners are only SECOND in NBA HISTORY to ofcource Michael Jordan. So, more game-winners than Bird, Magic, Kareem, West, exc...Now, by no means am I saying he's the best, because in my opinion, Michael Jordan is by far...But, to look at JA's comment as if it is a farfetched statment is borderline retarded on you posters behalf.

This is factual data...Everything else is up for opinion.

Don't bash me for posting these FACTS...You don't have to put Kobe in your top 5, 10, or 20 All-Time clutch list at all, because it's all your personal opinion...I just follow what I can print.

[TMan]

Reggie Miller's last second shot, clutch.

[gts]

Not necessarily, sure. But Adande is. He could be impartial, but he isn't. At least he could pretend better. :oldlol:

Or he could just say it out loud like Bill Simmons. No problem with that.
not sure how much of ja's stuff you read when he was with the times but he was usually one of the more critical voices of the lakers.. very fair writer, not afraid to call a spade a spade nor is he afraid to praise players.. from all teams

[PleezeBelieve]

not sure how much of ja's stuff you read when he was with the times but he was usually one of the more critical voices of the lakers.. very fair writer, not afraid to call a spade a spade nor is he afraid to praise players.. from all teams
No, Ja's (:oldlol:) is trash writer.

End of story.

[iggy>]

kobe is great, but ill still take jordan if down by 2 or less.

[AND1CROSSED]

This thread isn't about Phil Jackson, duh.

Look at you clowns. Just pathetic how deranged you are.

Stop copping pleas and post numbers supporting Adande's statement of fact.
O well, To me it sounds like you are just looking to **** on anyone's opinions
even though they put good reasons on your statement. I guess that is why
you call yourself a troll.:ohwell:

[phoenix18]

When is someone going to get Ray Allen's stats??

How do you guys find these?

[EricForman]

what do you expect, dude worked for LAtime, and is a laker homer just like simmons is a celtic homer.


actually no, Adande is not a homer.

After game six of the Kings/Lakers series, Adande actually wrote this in LA Times

"The Lakers starting five is pretty hard to beat--Shaq, Kobe and the three refs".

He was the only LA media member who actually acknowledged the shadyness that happened in game 6. Everyone in LA was playing stupid, ignorant, or blind after that game.

With that said, Adande already cleared it up--he doesn't think Kobe's better than MJ, he just thinks Kobe is the best "bad shot maker" in the game. And that's about right.

[EricForman]

you guys accusing Adande of being a homer is just wrong. So what if he's admitted to being a fan? You can be a fan and still be unbiased and partial, you know?

For example, I'm a Iverson fan. I really am. His 01 finals run is my fave basketball memory this decade... but I've long accepted the fact that his game is nearly impossible to build around, and that he doesn't make anyone better at all.

I think he had a decent foursome aorund him from 04-06 (Webber, Iggy, Korver, Sam) and the Sixers stunked. There is not a doubt in my mind that you put Nash or Duncan in place of Iverson and those Sixer teams win 55+ and go to the ECF.

While Sixer fans on ISH were making excuses to justify why the Sixers and Nuggets got better IMMEDIATELY after Iverson left, I ain't making no excuses. I accepted it. Those teams got better when they traded AI for a player whose game isn't so hard to build around.

I'm still an Iverson fan. I still respect his passion. I still will always remember him fondly. But facts are facts--dude don't make no one better and isn't ideal to build a winning basketball team around.

Adande has always been fair. He's critical of the Lakers when they deserved to be criticized. He's not a homer.

[phoenix18]

you guys accusing Adande of being a homer is just wrong. So what if he's admitted to being a fan? You can be a fan and still be unbiased and partial, you know?

For example, I'm a Iverson fan. I really am. His 01 finals run is my fave basketball memory this decade... but I've long accepted the fact that his game is nearly impossible to build around, and that he doesn't make anyone better at all.

I think he had a decent foursome aorund him from 04-06 (Webber, Iggy, Korver, Sam) and the Sixers stunked. There is not a doubt in my mind that you put Nash or Duncan in place of Iverson and those Sixer teams win 55+ and go to the ECF.

While Sixer fans on ISH were making excuses to justify why the Sixers and Nuggets got better IMMEDIATELY after Iverson left, I ain't making no excuses. I accepted it. Those teams got better when they traded AI for a player whose game isn't so hard to build around.

I'm still an Iverson fan. I still respect his passion. I still will always remember him fondly. But facts are facts--dude don't make no one better and isn't ideal to build a winning basketball team around.

Adande has always been fair. He's critical of the Lakers when they deserved to be criticized. He's not a homer.

You are saying that Nash would get 55 wins with a PF with no knees(Webber), a rookie(Iggy), a retard(Sam) and Korver(emo)? Wow.

[SAKOTXA]

Missing the data?....Guess i'll do it for him:

KILLER INSTINCT....


List of Kobe's notable game-winners:

1) 05/10/00 - Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (playoffs)
(2) 06/14/00 - Lakers 120 - Pacers 118 (playoffs)
(3) 11/16/00 - Lakers 112 - Kings 110
(4) 02/07/01 - Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83
(5) 02/13/01 - Lakers 113 - Nets 110
(6) 01/02/02 - Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86
(7) 02/22/02 - Lakers 96 - Hornets 94
(8) 05/12/02 - Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (playoffs)
(9) 12/06/02 - Lakers 105 - Dallas 103
(10) 04/04/03 - Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101
(11) 04/06/03 - Lakers 115 - Suns 113
(12) 12/19/03 - Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99
(13) 02/17/04 - Lakers 89 - Blazers 86
(14) 03/21/04 - Lakers 104 - Bucks 103
(15) 04/14/04 - Lakers 105 - Blazers 104
(16) 03/12/05 - Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116
(17) 11/02/05 - Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97
(18) 01/07/06 - Lakers 112 - Clippers 109
(19) 01/13/06 - Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98
(20) 04/30/06 - Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (playoffs)
(21) 11/23/07 - Lakers 89 - Pacers 88
(22) 01/14/08 - Lakers 123 - Seattle 121
(23) 01/09/09 - Lakers 121- Pacers 119
(24) 12/04/09 - Lakers 108- Heat 107

I think he has about 5 more than that. You are not even counting the game tying shots....

[EricForman]

You are saying that Nash would get 55 wins with a PF with no knees(Webber), a rookie(Iggy), a retard(Sam) and Korver(emo)? Wow.


Why not? Oh yeah, I remember ISH's general consensus:

"Nash is overrated. Amare is better than him. He was made by DAntoni, his team is stacked all the time!"

But wait... let's see...

Nash won 50+ in 06 with a 6 man support crew of Marion/Diaw/Bell/Barbosa/Tim Thomas.

Nash is still diong his thing now long after D Antoni is gone

Nash has proven the last couple of years that it's him who's making things work, not Amare, not the coach, not the system.

Webber with no knees was still was good player. 20 and 10 and HIGH bball IQ. Sam back in 05 is much better than he is now, he was a 10/10/2 defensive center. Iggy jumped a notch immediately after AI left, Korver is not a bad rotation player.

There is not a doubt in my midn Nash wins 55 (in the east) with that cast in 2005 or 2006. But hey if you disagree that's okay, that's arguable.

What isn't arguable is that Sixers and Nuggets immediately got better after trading AI for someone else, someone NOT AS GOOD AS NASH.

[phoenix18]

Why not? Oh yeah, I remember ISH's general consensus:

"Nash is overrated. Amare is better than him. He was made by DAntoni, his team is stacked all the time!"

But wait... let's see...

Nash won 50+ in 06 with a 6 man support crew of Marion/Diaw/Bell/Barbosa/Tim Thomas.

Nash is still diong his thing now long after D Antoni is gone

Nash has proven the last couple of years that it's him who's making things work, not Amare, not the coach, not the system.

Webber with no knees was still was good player. 20 and 10 and HIGH bball IQ. Sam back in 05 is much better than he is now, he was a 10/10/2 defensive center. Iggy jumped a notch immediately after AI left, Korver is not a bad rotation player.

There is not a doubt in my midn Nash wins 55 (in the east) with that cast in 2005 or 2006. But hey if you disagree that's okay, that's arguable.

What isn't arguable is that Sixers and Nuggets immediately got better after trading AI for someone else, someone NOT AS GOOD AS NASH.

Whatever you say.:confusedshrug:

I am getting tired of these arguments anyway.:sleeping

[sbw19]

He's the best among active players that's for sure. Alltime he has a case but currently I have him 3rd.

[markymark]

You are saying that Nash would get 55 wins with a PF with no knees(Webber), a rookie(Iggy), a retard(Sam) and Korver(emo)? Wow.

The retard Sam got me :oldlol:

[Scribbles]

Who is this PleezeBelieve idiot who disagrees about Kobe being the best option?

[Fatal9]

Bird's height and difficult shot making ability make him the easy pick for the best last-second shot guy imo. After that it's debatable between Kobe, MJ and others.

[catzhernandez]

I hate JA Adande...

[elementally morale]

not sure how much of ja's stuff you read when he was with the times but he was usually one of the more critical voices of the lakers.. very fair writer, not afraid to call a spade a spade nor is he afraid to praise players.. from all teams

He was better than Plaschke. I had been reading the Sports Section of LA Times for like 4-5 years before I stopped altogether in 2007 or 2008 (can't remember). Adande was OK there, I agree. There was a guy calld Breshanan (sp?) or something like that... pretty awful writer.

But being OK in LA Times is different it seems. On ESPN, Adande:

a) became mediocre
b) looks as mediocre as he ever was

I don't know. But I don't really like his biased articles any more.

[sixer6ad]

Yes in today's game Bryant is the best.

Kobe being the best today is a total opinion, and that is fine; however, the statistics would not support that for the last 6 regular seasons and the last 5 playoffs. People may feel that way because his game winning shots are covered more thoroughly than other players. When you talk about major market privileges, this may be one of them. LBJ has actually hit the most over the past 5 years and Melo makes them at the highest percentage. It's funny that D-Wade and Kobe often get so much hype for this particular feat, and their percentages of making them are very low. In addition, Kobe's assist to turnover ration is the worst on this list. Is he the best? Just ask the media.

FGM FGS % FTM FTA Ass TO
LeBron James 17 50 .340 14 20 6 4
Vince Carter 16 51 .314 10 11 3 4
Ray Allen 15 39 .385 4 6 1 2
Kobe Bryant 14 56 .250 12 15 1 5
Carmelo Anthony 13 27 .481 7 11 1 4
Allen Iverson 13 33 .394 6 8 1 2
Ben Gordon 12 34 .353 6 6 1 4
Dirk Nowitzki 12 37 .324 13 18 1 3
Joe Johnson 12 45 .267 2 3 4 2
Paul Pierce 11 32 .344 15 17 9 3
Dwyane Wade 11 40 .275 13 17 3 2

[Glide2keva]

Exactly, and observation of Kobe's career tells me it is simply not true to call him the best last-second shot option. You know what's even better than observation though? Facts, which aren't in Kobe's favor at all.
Why would we let a minor thing like facts get in the way when we're trying to hype Kobe up to levels even he can't reach?

Kobe fans never use facts when they aren't in his favor, but the rare times they are, they throw them out there for all to see.

They have no perspective, and are prisoners of the moment.

[Knoe Itawl]

Kobe being the best today is a total opinion, and that is fine; however, the statistics would not support that for the last 6 regular seasons and the last 5 playoffs. People may feel that way because his game winning shots are covered more thoroughly than other players. When you talk about major market privileges, this may be one of them. LBJ has actually hit the most over the past 5 years and Melo makes them at the highest percentage. It's funny that D-Wade and Kobe often get so much hype for this particular feat, and their percentages of making them are very low. In addition, Kobe's assist to turnover ration is the worst on this list. Is he the best? Just ask the media.

FGM FGS % FTM FTA Ass TO
LeBron James 17 50 .340 14 20 6 4
Vince Carter 16 51 .314 10 11 3 4
Ray Allen 15 39 .385 4 6 1 2
Kobe Bryant 14 56 .250 12 15 1 5
Carmelo Anthony 13 27 .481 7 11 1 4
Allen Iverson 13 33 .394 6 8 1 2
Ben Gordon 12 34 .353 6 6 1 4
Dirk Nowitzki 12 37 .324 13 18 1 3
Joe Johnson 12 45 .267 2 3 4 2
Paul Pierce 11 32 .344 15 17 9 3
Dwyane Wade 11 40 .275 13 17 3 2

When it comes to Kobe fans, they honestly just don't CARE about facts in these sorts of things. They ONLY care about hyperbole as far as he's concerned. Perception is reality, and the media machine has hyped Kobe into this untouchable clutch player, so evidence be damned. Now, has Kobe made a good amount of last minute shots? Sure. Is he on this super level, "best option for last second shot in this history of the NBA" and all that stuff? Hell no.

But trying to get through to your average Bryant fan is like telling a member of Jonestown that Jim Jones isn't God personified.

[B]

Kobe being the best today is a total opinion, and that is fine; however, the statistics would not support that for the last 6 regular seasons and the last 5 playoffs. People may feel that way because his game winning shots are covered more thoroughly than other players. When you talk about major market privileges, this may be one of them. LBJ has actually hit the most over the past 5 years and Melo makes them at the highest percentage. It's funny that D-Wade and Kobe often get so much hype for this particular feat, and their percentages of making them are very low. In addition, Kobe's assist to turnover ration is the worst on this list. Is he the best? Just ask the media.

FGM FGS % FTM FTA Ass TO
LeBron James 17 50 .340 14 20 6 4
Vince Carter 16 51 .314 10 11 3 4
Ray Allen 15 39 .385 4 6 1 2
Kobe Bryant 14 56 .250 12 15 1 5
Carmelo Anthony 13 27 .481 7 11 1 4
Allen Iverson 13 33 .394 6 8 1 2
Ben Gordon 12 34 .353 6 6 1 4
Dirk Nowitzki 12 37 .324 13 18 1 3
Joe Johnson 12 45 .267 2 3 4 2
Paul Pierce 11 32 .344 15 17 9 3
Dwyane Wade 11 40 .275 13 17 3 2

These numbers are skewed. Kobe, Allen and Carter have had to have taken more shots than that in the final seconds of a game or do these numbers conveniently only go back a few years?

[elementally morale]

But trying to get through to your average Bryant fan is like telling a member of Jonestown that Jim Jones isn't God personified.


Why do GMs select Kobe to take the last shot? GMs have been selecting him every single year since like 2000-2001 or so. Why?

All of them are fans of Bryant? Possibly...

[Mor'Fiyah]

Kobe being the best today is a total opinion, and that is fine; however, the statistics would not support that for the last 6 regular seasons and the last 5 playoffs. People may feel that way because his game winning shots are covered more thoroughly than other players. When you talk about major market privileges, this may be one of them. LBJ has actually hit the most over the past 5 years and Melo makes them at the highest percentage. It's funny that D-Wade and Kobe often get so much hype for this particular feat, and their percentages of making them are very low. In addition, Kobe's assist to turnover ration is the worst on this list. Is he the best? Just ask the media.

FGM FGS % FTM FTA Ass TO
LeBron James 17 50 .340 14 20 6 4
Vince Carter 16 51 .314 10 11 3 4
Ray Allen 15 39 .385 4 6 1 2
Kobe Bryant 14 56 .250 12 15 1 5
Carmelo Anthony 13 27 .481 7 11 1 4
Allen Iverson 13 33 .394 6 8 1 2
Ben Gordon 12 34 .353 6 6 1 4
Dirk Nowitzki 12 37 .324 13 18 1 3
Joe Johnson 12 45 .267 2 3 4 2
Paul Pierce 11 32 .344 15 17 9 3
Dwyane Wade 11 40 .275 13 17 3 2

I HATE HATE HATE it when someone goes and posts stats that have little relevance to the actual topic. Those stats are based on shots taken with 24 seconds or less. Invariably they include half court heaves, full court heaves, and all manner of prayer type shots. Invariably the stats have no way of painting the full picture of the difficulty of each individual attempt. Why is that important you ask? Because in the mind of the basketball watcher, a shot taken that had little to no chance of ever going in isn't really viewed as a detriment to being clutch any more than a half court heave with a few seconds on the clock is viewed as a missed shot attempt (even though statistically it is). But whatever... stats cannot do everything... but the real reason the numbers above are not particularly relevant to the discussion is because of the caveat the only a few seconds (3-4) are left on the clock vs. 24. Those statistics are actually a much greater subset of shots that includes the relevant stats but really don't encapsulate them from the overall data. For all we know Kobe might shoot a better percentage in the 3-4 second range than every player on that list. And even if he didn't... as I alluded to before... statistics never capture what the naked eye captures. Spectators, fans, sportscenter watchers, coaches, players, analysts will all look at the situation of the shot... the difficulty level... the attention the player demands (did everyone know he was going to take the shot)... etc and then make a judgement based on that. It speaks VOLUMES that just about every coach, GM, and analyst would pick Bryant in these situations over any current player today as it is.

[Zan Tabak]

Kobe is the best option for a last-second shot in the history of the NBA"

Think this guy might have something to say about that...

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/8800000/The-Shot-vs-Cavaliers-michael-jordan-8857393-558-800.jpg

[Soopa]

kobe haters act like little b*tches, on some "i don't like him, cuz he's not my friend" type shyt.

grow the fu*k up

[icemanfan]

Read the article Jash, Phil stated that, and this has already been posted.
Phills memory is about as long as his dick. Jordan , I am certain made more of those and in games where it actually counted big. Shot on Ello anyone?

[icemanfan]

Why do GMs select Kobe to take the last shot? GMs have been selecting him every single year since like 2000-2001 or so. Why?

All of them are fans of Bryant? Possibly...
Because Jordan no longer plays. Pretty obvious too. Do you think those same GMs would take 21 year old Kobe or 21 year old Jordan given the chance. One was the greatest winner the game has known since Bill Russell and the other is Kobe I will let you guess which one is which.

[icemanfan]

When it comes to Kobe fans, they honestly just don't CARE about facts in these sorts of things. They ONLY care about hyperbole as far as he's concerned. Perception is reality, and the media machine has hyped Kobe into this untouchable clutch player, so evidence be damned. Now, has Kobe made a good amount of last minute shots? Sure. Is he on this super level, "best option for last second shot in this history of the NBA" and all that stuff? Hell no.

But trying to get through to your average Bryant fan is like telling a member of Jonestown that Jim Jones isn't God personified.
Well Knoe you got 1,000 Kobe fans goggling Jonestown and Jim Jones that will educate those high school and jr high kids.

[Soopa]

Kobe being the best today is a total opinion, and that is fine; however, the statistics would not support that for the last 6 regular seasons and the last 5 playoffs. People may feel that way because his game winning shots are covered more thoroughly than other players. When you talk about major market privileges, this may be one of them. LBJ has actually hit the most over the past 5 years and Melo makes them at the highest percentage. It's funny that D-Wade and Kobe often get so much hype for this particular feat, and their percentages of making them are very low. In addition, Kobe's assist to turnover ration is the worst on this list. Is he the best? Just ask the media.

FGM FGS % FTM FTA Ass TO
LeBron James 17 50 .340 14 20 6 4
Vince Carter 16 51 .314 10 11 3 4
Ray Allen 15 39 .385 4 6 1 2
Kobe Bryant 14 56 .250 12 15 1 5
Carmelo Anthony 13 27 .481 7 11 1 4
Allen Iverson 13 33 .394 6 8 1 2
Ben Gordon 12 34 .353 6 6 1 4
Dirk Nowitzki 12 37 .324 13 18 1 3
Joe Johnson 12 45 .267 2 3 4 2
Paul Pierce 11 32 .344 15 17 9 3
Dwyane Wade 11 40 .275 13 17 3 2



:oldlol: @ those bull shyt stats only math geeks would care about





Do any of you clowns actually watch games or do you just look at stats?

Kobe haters can't argue situations so they always put up numbers with no sense of context




this clown thought after he posted all these numbers, that he shut down this thread.

probably snapped his fingers 3 times, talking bout "i done told them girrrrlll"

*high-fives his homegirl*

[PleezeBelieve]

I HATE HATE HATE it when someone goes and posts stats that have little relevance to the actual topic. Those stats are based on shots taken with 24 seconds or less. Invariably they include half court heaves, full court heaves, and all manner of prayer type shots. Invariably the stats have no way of painting the full picture of the difficulty of each individual attempt. Why is that important you ask? Because in the mind of the basketball watcher, a shot taken that had little to no chance of ever going in isn't really viewed as a detriment to being clutch any more than a half court heave with a few seconds on the clock is viewed as a missed shot attempt (even though statistically it is). But whatever... stats cannot do everything... but the real reason the numbers above are not particularly relevant to the discussion is because of the caveat the only a few seconds (3-4) are left on the clock vs. 24. Those statistics are actually a much greater subset of shots that includes the relevant stats but really don't encapsulate them from the overall data. For all we know Kobe might shoot a better percentage in the 3-4 second range than every player on that list. And even if he didn't... as I alluded to before... statistics never capture what the naked eye captures. Spectators, fans, sportscenter watchers, coaches, players, analysts will all look at the situation of the shot... the difficulty level... the attention the player demands (did everyone know he was going to take the shot)... etc and then make a judgement based on that. It speaks VOLUMES that just about every coach, GM, and analyst would pick Bryant in these situations over any current player today as it is.
You know Kobe uses paragraphs when he writes, don't you?

I believe that alone should give someone like yourself the motivation to use proper sentence structure or what not.

And keep in mind, I wasnt going to bring Kobe up to make this point, but I sorta felt it would be the most effective tool to drive home this point.

[triangleoffense]

:oldlol: @ those bull shyt stats only math geeks would care about





Do any of you clowns actually watch games or do you just look at stats?

Kobe haters can't argue situations so they always put up numbers with no sense of context




this clown thought after he posted all these numbers, that he shut down this thread.

probably snapped his fingers 3 times, talking bout "i done told them girrrrlll"

*high-fives his homegirl*

Whoa there sonny show some respect. Those math geeks will be your boss one day, if not the boss of your boss.

[elementally morale]

Because Jordan no longer plays. Pretty obvious too. Do you think those same GMs would take 21 year old Kobe or 21 year old Jordan given the chance. One was the greatest winner the game has known since Bill Russell and the other is Kobe I will let you guess which one is which.


I still find it strange that you know this and GMs do not.

Why is that?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Why the hell is this thread still going after 10 pages? Nobody said Kobe is more clutch than Jordan in fact in the article he said that if you gave anyone 6 seconds to create a shot he'd choose Jordan. It's a perfectly valid opinion and nobody is saying Kobe>Jordan or Kobe>Bird.

Why can't Kobe get any credit without it turning into a huge debate? He's probably one of the 10 greatest players of all time, he's arguably the best player in the league and he's on the best team in the league. He'll be getting a lot more praise in the future. Get used to it.

[Disaprine]

When it comes to Kobe fans, they honestly just don't CARE about facts in these sorts of things. They ONLY care about hyperbole as far as he's concerned. Perception is reality, and the media machine has hyped Kobe into this untouchable clutch player, so evidence be damned. Now, has Kobe made a good amount of last minute shots? Sure. Is he on this super level, "best option for last second shot in this history of the NBA" and all that stuff? Hell no.

But trying to get through to your average Bryant fan is like telling a member of Jonestown that Jim Jones isn't God personified.
:roll: it must suck being a kobe hater nowadays :roll:

[Vragrant]

When it comes to Kobe fans, they honestly just don't CARE about facts in these sorts of things. They ONLY care about hyperbole as far as he's concerned. Perception is reality, and the media machine has hyped Kobe into this untouchable clutch player, so evidence be damned. Now, has Kobe made a good amount of last minute shots? Sure. Is he on this super level, "best option for last second shot in this history of the NBA" and all that stuff? Hell no.

But trying to get through to your average Bryant fan is like telling a member of Jonestown that Jim Jones isn't God personified.

I honestly starting to think its a possibility that by the time he retires theres a chance he'll be considered the GOAT, even if its not warranted. The hyberbole around this guy is THAT bad.

[sixer6ad]

:oldlol: @ those bull shyt stats only math geeks would care about





Do any of you clowns actually watch games or do you just look at stats?

Kobe haters can't argue situations so they always put up numbers with no sense of context




this clown thought after he posted all these numbers, that he shut down this thread.

probably snapped his fingers 3 times, talking bout "i done told them girrrrlll"

*high-fives his homegirl*

I really didn't say a lot...I only posted the stats. And...I watch a ton more NBA than you do, guaranteed. LBJ gets way too much press...way too much. When he makes a layup, the announcers freak...it's on espn...it's everywhere. I realize that. Meanwhile, some media head called Kobe the best clutch player in the NBA, and many people in the 2nd biggest market - and his world-wide fans - agree. So, because so many people hear that, they believe it. Would you believe that if you only were told that he actually shoots the 2nd lowest % in the Top 10 or that he only had 1 assist and 6 turnovers in this situation? I agree 100% with you that stats can only do so much; however, when someone says Kobe is the best clutch player or last-second option, people have the right to say, "Why?". When they do, the answer cannot be, "Because." There has to be some merit to it...it can't be because of all the hype and all the media attention. LBJ gets cracked (it's getting better) for his lack of last-second situations when, in reality, he has hit the most shots in the entire league over the last 6 seasons.

I'm not posting the stats to be a geek; I did it to pose a question. A true answer would not be presented in the form of a slam down; a true answer would have presented a reason.

[Simple Jack]

I really didn't say a lot...I only posted the stats. And...I watch a ton more NBA than you do, guaranteed. LBJ gets way too much press...way too much. When he makes a layup, the announcers freak...it's on espn...it's everywhere. I realize that. Meanwhile, some media head called Kobe the best clutch player in the NBA, and many people in the 2nd biggest market - and his world-wide fans - agree. So, because so many people hear that, they believe it. Would you believe that if you only were told that he actually shoots the 2nd lowest % in the Top 10 or that he only had 1 assist and 6 turnovers in this situation? I agree 100% with you that stats can only do so much; however, when someone says Kobe is the best clutch player or last-second option, people have the right to say, "Why?". When they do, the answer cannot be, "Because." There has to be some merit to it...it can't be because of all the hype and all the media attention. LBJ gets cracked (it's getting better) for his lack of last-second situations when, in reality, he has hit the most shots in the entire league over the last 6 seasons.

I'm not posting the stats to be a geek; I did it to pose a question. A true answer would not be presented in the form of a slam down; a true answer would have presented a reason.

People fail to realize how telling stats are. Stats aren't biased. Viewing a game, forming opinions (naturally), and debating all includes bias. Providing cold, hard facts, does not.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Why can't Kobe get any credit without it turning into a huge debate? .


Thats what lonely boys do.


They see the name, and just immediately get :rant

[cotdt]

Adande liking Kobe the most is self-explanatory: Adande is a Laker fan, who happens to be a journalist. His profession is to like Kobe the most at the moment. It has no other meaning. This article was something to talk about. That was its purpose and it served it well.

So long.

Huh? Why would Adande like Kobe the most when it was Kobe who got Adande fired from the LA Times for an article he wrote on him? It was about Kobe being the problem and why Shaq left and Buss agreed. But it was proven false by Kobe and LA Times fired him. If anything, Adande does not even like Kobe.

[Skip Bayless]

:oldlol: