NBA Playoff MVP

[G.O.A.T]

In Bill Simmons new book he dedicates a chapter to the MVP award and creates a Playoff MVP Award for each season in the shot clock era.

Here's how they break down...thoughts\comments etc...

1955: Dolph Schayes
1956: Paul Arzin
1957: Bill Russell
1958: Bob Pettit
1959: Bill Russell
1960: Bill Russell
1961: Bill Russell
1962: Bill Russell
1963: Bill Russell
1964: Bill Russell
1965: Bill Russell
1966: Bill Russell
1967: Wilt Chamberlain
1968: Bill Russell
1969: John Havlicek
1970: Walt Frazier
1971: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1972: Jerry West
1973: Walt Frazier
1974: John Havlicek
1975: Rick Barry
1976: Dave Cowens
1977: Bill Walton
1978: Bobby Dandridge
1979: Dennis Johnson
1980: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1981: Larry Bird
1982: Magic Johnson
1983: Moses Malone
1984: Larry Bird
1985: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1986: Larry Bird
1987: Magic Johnson
1988: Magic Johnson
1989: Isiah Thomas
1990: Isiah Thomas
1991: Michael Jordan
1992: Michael Jordan
1993: Michael Jordan
1994: Hakeem Olajuwon
1995: Hakeem Olajuwon
1996: Michael Jordan
1997: Michael Jordan
1998: Michael Jordan
1999: Tim Duncan
2000: Shaquille O'Neal
2001: Shaquille O'Neal
2002: Shaquille O'Neal
2003: Tim Duncan
2004: Ben Wallace
2005: Tim Duncan
2006: Dwyane Wade
2007: Tim Duncan
2008: Paul Pierce

[ShaqAttack3234]

Pierce over Garnett in 2008 is asinine and I'd give it to Havlicek in '68 and Cousy in '57 as well, but other than that it looks good.

[Myth]

Not significantly different from the Finals MVP. I wish that a Playoff MVP existed instead of a Finals MVP, just as long as they only give it to a player on the team that wins the whole thing. My example comes from the 2007 playoffs where Parker won Finals MVP, but I felt that Duncan did overall more for the team in the playoffs. Its strange that there is not an award that considers the first 3 round of the playoffs.

[G.O.A.T]

Not significantly different from the Finals MVP. I wish that a Playoff MVP existed instead of a Finals MVP, just as long as they only give it to a player on the team that wins the whole thing. My example comes from the 2007 playoffs where Parker won Finals MVP, but I felt that Duncan did overall more for the team in the playoffs. Its strange that there is not an award that considers the first 3 round of the playoffs.

I think they should have both.

Simmons used the same example to make his point in the book.

Parker averaged 30 a game shooting 58% in a four game sweep exposing the Cavs primary weakness which was defending a quick penetrating guard. Still it's obvious Duncan was the reason they got to and won that Finals. During the season Dirk was MVP and Parker Finals MVP, but there is no doubt Duncan was the best player on the best team.

[ShaqAttack3234]

How exactly was Pierce the playoff MVP? Garnett led the team in scoring and rebounding in the playoffs and he was their defensive MVP. He was their best post player, his shooting stretched the defense and I don't think anyone forgets what he did defensively.

[bdreason]

2008 = KG no doubt.

[AirJordan23]

I think they should have both.

Simmons used the same example to make his point in the book.

Parker averaged 30 a game shooting 58% in a four game sweep exposing the Cavs primary weakness which was defending a quick penetrating guard. Still it's obvious Duncan was the reason they got to and won that Finals. During the season Dirk was MVP and Parker Finals MVP, but there is no doubt Duncan was the best player on the best team.

I would not say Parker deserved Finals MVP. Duncan was the REASON Parker had a stellar series. Duncan drew a lot of attention on the offensive end and Parker mostly had single coverage on him and they were terrible defenders (mostly Gibson, Hughes and Jones). Parker had a whopping 13 assists the entire series along with 12 turnovers which is around a 1.1 assists-to-turnovers ratio. And on defense, Duncan controlled the paint, did a great job on rebounding and covering the lane. Take Duncan out of the series, Cavs actually have a shot at winning but take Parker out and the Spurs are still favorites. Nobody's denying that he was great at scoring and finishing but Duncan's presence gave him more freedom and it was more about exploiting a mismatch since Gibson and Hughes were poor defenders. Duncan didn't take more than 17 FGA in any of the game due to the attention he drew, averaged 12 RPG and 4 APG while being the defensive anchor. I would say Duncan's defense alone should've made him the primary candidate for the award. In a league that was making a transition or had already made a transition from dominant big men to flashy perimeter players, I'm not surprised Parker won it.

[G.O.A.T]

2008 = KG no doubt.

I thought so too.

Dandridge over Hayes in '78 seemed odd too.

He doesn't offer an explanation on an individual basis, but I do know he solicited a lot of opinions.

[Kiddlovesnets]

2009 Pau Gasol.

[G.O.A.T]

2009 Pau Gasol.

Are you:

A) Making a Joke
B) An Idiot
C) Trying to start shit
D) Serious and therefore B) an Idiot

[OldSchoolBBall]

Seems you needed to win the title to be on the list, since there's no way that Isiah had a better playoffs than Jordan in '89 and '90. There are some other questionable selections as well.

[west]

Ben Wallace?

[G.O.A.T]

Seems you needed to win the title to be on the list, since there's no way that Isiah had a better playoffs than Jordan in '89 and '90. There are some other questionable selections as well.

Seeing as how losing in the playoffs is failing, I'd say yeah you have to win to be considered for MVP.



Ben Wallace?

10.3 pts
14.3 rebs

and over 100 combined blocks and steals in 23 playoff games.

Guarded Jermaine and Shaq O'Neal in Conference and NBA Finals.

(That's Simmons case for it)

[magnax1]

Yeah, the one Finals MVP that always bugged me was Chauncey over Ben. Though most of the playoff MVPs look pretty good except 08.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Seeing as how losing in the playoffs is failing, I'd say yeah you have to win to be considered for MVP.


Is not having the best record in the league "failing" as well? Should we only award MVPs to players on teams with the best record in the league? It seems absurd to suggest that Isiah in 1990 either had a better playoffs or was more valuable than Jordan, who had one of the best playoffs ever (37/7/7/3/1/52%) and came a hair's breadth away from beating Isiah's much more loaded team in the conference finals in game 7.

[G.O.A.T]

Is not having the best record in the league "failing" as well?

No, there is a clear difference. Failing to qualify for the playoffs is failing. You don't fail until your season is over.

The purpose of the playoffs is to win the title, come short of that and no matter how valuable you were, it wasn't valuable enough.

[Lebron23]

Kevin Garnett over Paul Pierce in 2008.

Kobe in 2009 and 2010

Dirk in 2011

Lebron in 2012 and 2013.

[Lebron23]

Not significantly different from the Finals MVP. I wish that a Playoff MVP existed instead of a Finals MVP, just as long as they only give it to a player on the team that wins the whole thing. My example comes from the 2007 playoffs where Parker won Finals MVP, but I felt that Duncan did overall more for the team in the playoffs. Its strange that there is not an award that considers the first 3 round of the playoffs.


Me too. Parker abused Daniel Gibson and the Cavaliers back court in the NBA Finals.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe 01

[fpliii]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324288

[BoutPractice]

I wonder if the playoff NBA always has to be a member of the championship team... for example wouldn't Garnett have a case in 2004? He averaged 24, 14, 5, 1.5 steals and 2.5 blocks over 18 games for the Wolves, compared to Ben Wallace who averaged the same defensive stats but who scored 10 points per game, didn't win FMVP, and generally was a great cog in a magnificent machine more than he was the engine. Garnett should also replace Pierce in 2008.

And I always thought Dirk had a case in 2006 as the playoffs MVP over Wade. He was a real MVP candidate that year, and over the whole playoffs he averaged 27, 12 and 3 with legendary performances in two of the rounds, whereas Wade averaged 28 6 and 6 but in the East, with star help from Shaq in three of the rounds, and had his great performances concentrated in the Finals. Either choice makes sense though.

[Lebron23]

Kobe 01


Nope

Shaq's playoffs numbers totally dominated Bean's statsline.

30.4 ppg on 55.5 FG%, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.4 spg, 2.4 spg

29.4 ppg on 46.9 FG%, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg

[Magic 32]

Kobe 01

You can make a case.

His road play was the best of its kind this side of MJ.

[Magic 32]

Nope

Shaq's playoffs numbers totally dominated Bean's statsline.

30.4 ppg on 55.5 FG%, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.4 spg, 2.4 spg

29.4 ppg on 46.9 FG%, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg

http://www.xxivk.net/news/files/images/2012/08/kobe-shaq-2001.jpg

[Lebron23]

I wonder if the playoff NBA always has to be a member of the championship team... for example wouldn't Garnett have a case in 2004? He averaged 24, 14, 5, 1.5 steals and 2.5 blocks over 18 games for the Wolves, compared to Ben Wallace who averaged the same defensive stats but who scored 10 points per game, didn't win FMVP, and generally was a great cog in a magnificent machine more than he was the engine. Garnett should also replace Pierce in 2008.

And I always thought Dirk had a case in 2006 as the playoffs MVP over Wade. He was a real MVP candidate that year, and over the whole playoffs he averaged 27, 12 and 3 with legendary performances in two of the rounds, whereas Wade averaged 28 6 and 6 but in the East, with star help from Shaq in three of the rounds, and had his great performances concentrated in the Finals. Either choice makes sense though.

same with Lebron in 2009. He was the best playoffs performer in 2009.

[Magic 32]

I think this can be a tricky award.

Shaq destroyed the Nets frontcourt, but Kobe got them past Alamodome.

Better to do a series MVP count.

[Black and White]

same with Lebron in 2009. He was the best playoffs performer in 2009.


Kevin Garnett over Paul Pierce in 2008.

Kobe in 2009 and 2010

Dirk in 2011

Lebron in 2012 and 2013.


:biggums:

[T_L_P]

http://www.xxivk.net/news/files/images/2012/08/kobe-shaq-2001.jpg

A picture that represents points only (and I think that was all before the actual Finals) should determine the best player? :roll:

Why not just look at their overall numbers and who they were going up against? Oh, wait, because it would show Shaq clearly wins.

[Magic 32]

A picture that represents points only (and I think that was all before the actual Finals) should determine the best player? :roll:

Why not just look at their overall numbers and who they were going up against? Oh, wait, because it would show Shaq clearly wins.

I don't care if Shaq had 100 rpg.

36 ppg on the road is 36 ppg on the road.

[T_L_P]

I don't care if Shaq had 100 rpg.

36 ppg on the road is 36 ppg on the road.

Kobe's case for 01 Playoff MVP: more points on the road and no doubt better 4th quarter scoring.

Shaq's case: better stats, harder defensive matchups, more focus from the opposing defense.

[Magic 32]

Kobe's case for 01 Playoff MVP: more points on the road and no doubt better 4th quarter scoring.

Shaq's case: better stats, harder defensive matchups, more focus from the opposing defense.

Kobe had 7.3 assists per game
Shaq had 3.2 assists per game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_LSQ50BWk&t=10m19s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_LSQ50BWk&t=8m27s

[T_L_P]

Kobe had 7.3 assists per game
Shaq had 3.2 assists per game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_LSQ50BWk&t=10m19s

Kobe was the best player in the LA-Spurs series. Congrats.

Now post the full Playoff stats where Kobe only managed to get 3 more assists per game than Shaq

[Magic 32]

Kobe was the best player in the LA-Spurs series. Congrats.

Now post the full Playoff stats where Kobe only managed to get 3 more assists per game than Shaq


Kobe had 7.3 assists per game
Shaq had 3.2 assists per game

That's 4.

And the Kings series is a toss-up.

Both had 2 brilliant games, but Kobe had them on the road (42ppg, 12.5rpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl51M10vEKo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR3kpKk0mfA

[T_L_P]

Kobe had 7.3 assists per game
Shaq had 3.2 assists per game

That's 4.

And the Kings series is a toss-up.

Both had 2 brilliant games, but Kobe had them on the road (42ppg)

Kobe had 6.1 assists per game

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2zew768.jpg

[Magic 32]

Kobe had 6.1 assists per game

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2zew768.jpg

Must have messed up the blue clicking thing on basketball reference.

Anyway, the the Kings series?

42.5 & 12.5 rebounds on the road.

[Magic 32]

Kobe on the road (WCSF and WCF)

http://s1.postimg.org/h7kcozn5r/Nyt_billede.png

[T_L_P]

Kobe Bryant in Playoff losses ('01):

15 PPG / 3 RPG / 5 APG / 1 SPG / 3 BPG / 6 TOV / .334 TS%

Shaquille O'Neal in Playoff Losses ('01):

44 PPG / 20 RPG / 5 APG / 1 SPG / 0 BPG / 4 TOV / .584 TS%

The Playoff MVP is obvious

[Magic 32]

Kobe Bryant in Playoff losses ('01):

15 PPG / 3 RPG / 5 APG / 1 SPG / 3 BPG / 6 TOV / .334 TS% /

Shaquille O'Neal in Playoff Losses ('01):

44 PPG / 20 RPG / 5 APG / 1 SPG / 0 BPG / .584 TS%

The Playoff MVP is obvious

:biggums:

:hammerhead:

[T_L_P]

:biggums:

:hammerhead:

It's sarcasm, bro.

Post 'on the road statistics' all you want...fact of the matter is Shaq has better stats overall and he did so with more attention from opposing defenses.

[Magic 32]

It's sarcasm, bro.

Post 'on the road statistics' all you want...fact of the matter is Shaq has better stats overall and he did so with more attention from opposing defenses.

And you can post all the home statistics you want, and his stats against the worst team he they played (76ers).

[Keno]

2009: LeBron
2010: LeBron
2011: LeBron
2012: LeBron
2013: LeBron

[T_L_P]

And you can post all the home statistics you want, and his stats against the worst team he they played (76ers).

So Kobe got absolutely contained by the worst team on their journey? Damn.


Can you post Shaq's and Kobe's complete stats on the road?

[Magic 32]

So Kobe got absolutely contained by the worst team on their journey? Damn.


Can you post Shaq's and Kobe's complete stats on the road?

Had to chase AI around. And it worked.

and after game 1:

Kobe
27ppg, 9rpg, 6apg 44% FG

AI
32.5ppg, 5.8rpg, 3.3apg 39.7% FG

[Psileas]

Yeah, Simmons, West over Wilt in 1972, whatever you say. :oldlol:
Wilt clearly outplayed West in the Finals, possibly outplayed him in the WCF's, while West only outplayed him in the series against Chicago, but West in the playoff MVP...

In 1985, it arguably isn't Kareem, either. He did have that Finals' MVP, but Magic has a case for better overall playoffs. Dude averaged 17/7/16 in the first 3 series and, like Kareem, did so in limited minutes of play. It's not that Kareem was the dominant defensive force or the rebounder that he used to be, either.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Had to chase AI around. And it worked.

and after game 1:

Kobe
27ppg, 9rpg, 6apg 44% FG

AI
32.5ppg, 5.8rpg, 3.3apg 39.7% FG
Why take game 1 out?
You just dont want it to look like kobe was outplayed by AI

[Magic 32]

Why take game 1 out?
You just dont want it to look like kobe was outplayed by AI

He was outplayed for one game. He was rusty after 9 days of rest.

But his game 1 numbers are so awful, that his play for the entire series looks awful.

It was not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-kpF8bOg7g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-EneHUwok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-EneHUwok